Database Users

My First impressions with XXLPQ/DDLP8/DDLP7 (Official ICS)

For noobs, not kids.
CM fans and TW haters please don't see this, use the ← button.
• Percentage battery mod for this version- http://ifile.it/mch5k14/Mod Vertical.zip
Well who cares for my review? See the review done by my favorite GSMArena team ↓
• http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s_ii_ics_vs_gingerbread-review-737.php
Last leak impressions were LPH,
• http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1501157&highlight=my+first+impressions
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• As usual good phone calls, volume is loud and clear enough, both in speaker and earpiece. Noise Reduction is not available.
• Vibration intensity is solid. Better than previous leaks.
• All connectivities work, BT, WiFi, 3G/H+ etc.
• 480X800 walls work on both Lockscreen and Homescreen. LOL.
• FM Radio works fine.
• The device will now vibrate+ring
• Swype 3.26.92 is present. It's a Beta one afaik. And have problems. 3.25 is way better still.
• 1080P videos play fine. But Video Recorder zooms in automatically while recording 1080P videos. Was it there from first, can't say!
• Camera works fine.
• Touch screen response is good. Scrolling is smooth. It's not fast as LPH, a bit more controlled, thus you need to swipe your finger fast to get the whole page if it's big. Elasticity effect is more prominent than LPH.
• Same email, GMail app (no multi touch).
• Face Unlock works. Thanks to a cool time wasting feature.
• Stock internet browser is as usual uber cool.
• Play Store works fine with downloading.
• GPS locked fine in GMaps. Yet to test with GPS Status. GPS locks work absolutely fine.
• If you're TW launcher user then at least they have reintroduced the loop option in both App drawer and Home screen. And yes, 3D effect from homescreen and app drawer is not there any more, it never was a deal breaker for me anyway.
•Deep sleep works fine as usual.
• Connection with my Desktop is working fine.
• Chrome Beta isn't FC'ing anymore.
••• What SHOULD be FIXED:
• Same pathetic incoming call UI! You gotta be kidding me, who would like a non slider dumb looking answer/reject option? I certainly don't.
• Call logs don't categorise numbers. So NO compact view of an entry. Poor.
Contacts tab is also removed from dialer!
• Other than the default fonts no font is synchronized in built in apps like Calender, Stock email app body, Main texts in Stock browser.
• Developer Option should be removed after doing the final and needed polishing.
• What kind of annoying lock screen is this? Not ICS, Not GB, what the hell?
• Impossible to edit a text in Stock Browser because of weird cursor movement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
***Conclusion***
Well I can't say it's the perfect release Samsung has done, but I think it's OK. There are some minor glitches here and there, but no major one. Still there are things need to be fixed, and I am sure next firmware upgrades will solve some of issues.
UK ICS Ofiicial should be coming soon:
• http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s_ii_ics_update_to_hit_uk_next_week-news-3971.php
In the meantime please do post your feedback and all the pros/cons, if you've found any. Please DO NOT post that battery life is bad, or some third party apps/games are not working because they are meaningless. ICS is just released and many brands are yet to configure their apps and games to make it ICS compatible.
There are many release, so please also mention which one you've flashed in the PDA/PHONE/CSC format.
*** VIDEO ***
Updated on 30-3-12
Some screens below:

Appreciate this, have followed your first impression threads from day one!
I had a feeling this would be the case, All teh hype only to be dissapointed. I hope sources come soon. We can all jump ship!
Appreciated again.
Thanks

Does for anyone Facebook contact pictures work? Installed Facebook account in Social Hub, and the official Facebook app, chose to sync contacts, but no pictures show up in Contacts...

I would never change my samsung galaxy s2 unless for the s3! Samsung is the best with hardware specs but I would never use any official rom cause samsung is the most terrible when it comes to software. I am on the rom on my signature and will wait for miui v4 to get ics

Good review.. Keep us posted with the screenshots as well..
Waiting for source code..
Sent from SGS2 running Android ICS

theres no-way this is the official final version with the touch screen like this,
Way to slow!

So far so good for me,
*and dont bother about developer option mate, its a must have option in all release.
* Noise reduction icon is still there in calls.

ithehappy said:
• Same incoming call UI! You gotta be kidding me, who would like a non slider dumb looking answer/reject option? I certainly don't.
• Same and weird ICS lockscreen. Oh!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think these 2 wierd changes have been done to get around Apple's slide to unlock and similar patents. These changes cropped up after Apple tried to enforce these patents against Samsung devices.
Don't sweat about developer option, they are required by someone using GSII for app development. Some of these were present in GB too but under Applications menu and not main settings menu.
I feel this release was a mistake or Samsung is doing some kind of UAT using 3-4 countries.First thing is the version LPQ which looks like it's a development build and not a final release build since those usually have [Year][Month][Build] format which should have made this build LCx and not LPQ.

wow..thanks for this....saved myself from flashing it myself to test....sticking with cm9 for now then. cheers mate great review as always

bala_gamer said:
* Noise reduction icon is still there in calls.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which ROM have you flashed?
No way I have it on LPQ, the one I've flashed.
Please post a screen.

Stifler69 said:
wow..thanks for this....saved myself from flashing it myself to test....sticking with cm9 for now then. cheers mate great review as always
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
God !! whenever i see you it remembers me of American Pie

So far so good for me,

Still awaiitng a CWM Version

wow..thanks for this....saved myself from flashing it myself to test

bala_gamer said:
God !! whenever i see you it remembers me of American Pie
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wait till you see my mum....
EDIT: no need to guess who gave this one star....still say a big thanks for this thread as it saved me from flashing it myself.

ithehappy said:
Which ROM have you flashed?
No way I have it on LPQ, the one I've flashed.
Please post a screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still have NR too. I have the nordic version (if my memory is good)
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using XDA Premium HD app

Stifler69 said:
wait till you see my mum....
EDIT: no need to guess who gave this one star....still say a big thanks for this thread as it saved me from flashing it myself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Id like to see your father.... like american pie father?? lol

Thanks for the info. Looks like im still waiting. Is it true the 3d homescreen scrolling has been removed? Someone said that in another thread, dont know if its bs or not.

Stifler69 said:
wait till you see my mum....
EDIT: no need to guess who gave this one star....still say a big thanks for this thread as it saved me from flashing it myself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahahah!! Guys got jokes xD
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium

Thanks for this, i'll wait next one

[ROM][4.2.2] GamerzROM Legend Edition v4.0 Faster, Greater, Stronger! | 25.10.2013

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Do you remember your old legendary ROM: GamerzROM
It's back as Android 4.2.2.
Faster than anything you've used before.
No, you won't miss any features to take that speed. It's full with features.
We are proud to introduce the GamerzROM Legendary Edition to Galaxy S community.
Now even faster, greater and stronger!
That's enough talk. Let's download and test it yourself.
Please check our blog and facebook page for download, changelog and more info.
http://pittech.blogspot.com/
Thanks to:
-CyanogenMod community and pawitp for base.
-AWAYS for big help.
-Stratosk for wonderfull kernel.
-CyanogenMod and pawitp.
-Famzz for suggesting me slim base.
-The people supporting us and our ROMs.
-Linus Torvalds for Linux Kernel.
-Lamborghini for inspiring me about speed.
-Fresh milk for calcium.
Not thanks to:
-Samsung for horrible buggy gingerbread ROMs.
-Apple for antenne problem.
-Catterpiller for dozers.
WARNING TO GAMERZROM USERS
SPEED KILLS

First!!
Downloading now

Wow captivate threads are too passive.

ahhh! I just had to install PACRom yesterday!
anyways, will try when I get home tonight!
Sent from my SGH-I897 using xda app-developers app

Haha wow this is unexpected. Was considering porting this for my own usage the other day, no point now. Will download later today and try it out probably.

Will it work on galaxy grand ...
Sent from my GT-I9082 using xda premium

adheeshkurekar said:
Will it work on galaxy grand ...
Sent from my GT-I9082 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
According to their website, they only support 3 devices right now. You can port it yourself with this if you'd like: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1908008
I'm not sure if the dev has plans to support more devices or not.

Downloading,
Gapps required?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Working Great,
Best Gaming Experience.. :Thumbs Up:

Avikar said:
Gapps required?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See their website, they have the Gapps download linked on there as well. Just flashed the ROM & Gapps, everything seems pretty nice. It is quite fast, but I'd like to give it some time before anything. I like the weather widget (my favorite looking one, same as on Captivating) as well as the launcher. It's a pretty smooth UI too, in case choppiness bugs anyone.
Any easy way to change the DPI?

RE: gamerzrom 4.2.2
Thanks for a new ROM to try! This was also on my to-port list. But I've been getting lazy.

x0ne215 said:
See their website, they have the Gapps download linked on there as well. Just flashed the ROM & Gapps, everything seems pretty nice. It is quite fast, but I'd like to give it some time before anything. I like the weather widget (my favorite looking one, same as on Captivating) as well as the launcher. It's a pretty smooth UI too, in case choppiness bugs anyone.
Any easy way to change the DPI?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
try textdroider dpi app

n205des said:
try textdroider dpi app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Worked like a charm, thank you! Changed DPI to 182, still running great. (Used to SlimRom DPI)

Thank you dear friends. But I'm really shocked because of low interest from captivate community.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using xda app-developers app

burakgon said:
Thank you dear friends. But I'm really shocked because of low interest from captivate community.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not so much low interest, it's more of the following:
- New thread, been less than 24hrs and a lot of us work .
- As you can see, there are quite a few ROMs for our cappy's, and some people don't want to try out newer ones until they read reports from other users
Give it a few days, I know there's a few other people who will try it out besides me . So far, no complaints. I would love for you to include a DPI manager with the ROM, but using textdroider DPI from the market works just fine.
Oh and inverted gapps would be cool, as well as a "dark" theme much like SlimBean.
But overall experience so far: 10/10, running flawlessly right now at 182 DPI as the only change.

RE: gamerzrom 4.2.2
If anyone is wondering, the Gapps must be flashed (yes I know it says in OP ) to introduce full functionality to the capacitive buttons and lock screen. I run without the Google apps when I can, mostly using this phone as media/game/alarm-clock device. My first boot and subsequent reboots without the Gapps package were buggy. Running fine since the Gapps flash. I used ROM Toolbox to change the DPI through build.prop. Will report back with more results soon as I can.

Super fast rom thank you so much...is there any way to increase loudspeaker volume? My cappy gives best sound on stock gb 2.3.5
2- is there a possibility to have pause and resume function in video recording like in stock gb 2.3.5?
Thanks again.

this is a good rom and one of the few which are lagless and delivers a good experience :good:
all the games work fine and 720p videos also play without lag.
so overall it is a good rom.
keep up the good work :good::good::good:

imrananis said:
Super fast rom thank you so much...is there any way to increase loudspeaker volume? My cappy gives best sound on stock gb 2.3.5
2- is there a possibility to have pause and resume function in video recording like in stock gb 2.3.5?
Thanks again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try playing with the included DSP manager, sound working great on my end.

flashed and it's just great.pretty lagfree.
really awesome rom.thank u.

x0ne215 said:
It's not so much low interest, it's more of the following:
- New thread, been less than 24hrs and a lot of us work .
- As you can see, there are quite a few ROMs for our cappy's, and some people don't want to try out newer ones until they read reports from other users
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats right, especially the 2nd one..
will download and try when i find some time

4.4 kitkat 4 Xperia play (google said, technically)

Sorry travelling today, will post details tomorrow. See screenshot
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from the God of gaming, the Xperia Play

mocool05 said:
Sorry travelling today, will post details tomorrow. See screenshot
View attachment 2362481
from the God of gaming, the Xperia Play
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
KitKat is all fine and dandy but without, I am sure, additional sources released by Sony (Ericsson) we will probably never get a JB kernel working and still retain full Xperia PLAY compatibility... then again I may be completely wrong and if I am someone correct me. I have stayed pretty much on GB for gaming. Either way, thanks for sharing... although I think this should go to the General forum.... anyways... thread on.

google says that they made the OS smaller and after so old devices that didn't get in the past update can now get update because they resolve many issues.

labbala said:
google says that they made the OS smaller and after so old devices that didn't get in the past update can now get update because they resolve many issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well maybe 4.4 is for older phones but as you know the companies support they devices for a short period of time. So no KitKat for us...

labbala said:
google says that they made the OS smaller and after so old devices that didn't get in the past update can now get update because they resolve many issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True but they also stated those will need to be updated by either the carrier or the manufacturer of the device(s). As $ony long ago gave up on the PLAY, I think its incredibly unlikely we will see any support form Sony and or even source releases.
Still, it would be awesome if we can get it up and running, but dont forget the highest kernel we can sort of get working, is kernel 3.4.
Kitkat would be an even higher kernel number.

Google isn't even releasing KitKat for the Galaxy Nexus. Sony isn't going to do it either, and it would need hardware drivers from Qualcomm side too.
Why is this thread in the dev section?

is that true?
Sent from my GT-I9220 using xda app-developers app

Sorry for wrong section... Anyway to delete? On another note, dony and erricson broke up so i dunno if they would be wanting to support our 2011 devices. All we can do id hope a dev/sony has the power to bring us 4.4...
from the God of gaming, the Xperia Play

Nice Information

I think if the 3.4 Kernel is working it wont be difficult to get kitkat running. But as far there is no touch in 3.4
Sent from my R800i using xda app-developers app

I'm 100% sure that sony has abandoned our plays .It's a good news to hear that the upcoming android OS is going to be a light one

majed6 said:
I'm 100% sure that sony has abandoned our plays .It's a good news to hear that the upcoming android OS is going to be a light one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They abandoned it,yes.As far as i know,there are no new models build and everything that is floating around in shops are the last produced batches,not getting the update to Android 4 kinda sealed this assumption

I don't know if the X Play will ever get KitKat but Google introduced a new runtime called ART to replace Dalvik with KitKat, on my Nexus 4 it really improve the performance to a substantial amount, so maybe that will help as well.
sent from xda premium app

Would be great if Sony would pay more attention to their old phones, specially because they cancelled the ics update so sudden.
But i don´t think this will happen.

And that's one reason I won't buy Sony again.

we will get 4.4, not official but we will get it.
once i got a play i will work on it, otherwise we will have an other dev.

nickholtus said:
we will get 4.4, not official but we will get it.
once i got a play i will work on it, otherwise we will have an other dev.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so? is there anyone working on kitkat roms for xPlay? or its abandoned at all?

By the looks of it, KitKat is out of reach for our device, theres barely any 4.1 or 4.2 jellybean roms functioning, what makes you think we will get 4.4 any time soon? Our Play is best optimised for GB due to performance issues as ICS+ isn't 100% functional on our play. Don't believe me? try any ics rom out and sooner or later you will find out that games will lag and memory will tend to be low. Sorry but this is the bottom line for our xperia play.

Legacyxperia (mostly mike) is working to get gully working 3.4 kernel. Than we wpuld be able to boot kitkat.
Sent using C6833 - Carbon KitKat/Pimped Z1 Kernel

It is indeed possible, and I am saying this because I have NEO L(same as xplay) and I ran kitkat on my phone, thanks to @Mike's hard work. He reached at a point now where touch is working, he just need to have Wifi,Camera and some other things work and it will be there
Sent from my Xperia Play using XDA Free mobile app

[VIDEO] KitKat 4.4 on Galaxy Tab 2 7.0

Just for sharing, I made a really simple (0:34) video of Android KitKat 4.4 (CyanogenMOD 11) running on my Galaxy Tab 2 7.0 (P3110)...
VIDEO LINK>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9Cn2O0mZF0
ROM LINK: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2525713
Picture from my own Tab
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Looks very smooth! :good:

Yes, it is really smooth

Thanks, my video on install and running is stuck in upload on youtube
Sent from my LGMS500 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

tokenpoke said:
Thanks, my video on install and running is stuck in upload on youtube
Sent from my LGMS500 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Glad to see another video coming, KitKat is perfect

Yeah. Its stuck in upload. Note to YouTubers, don't unmount your sd card while uploading. Es no buenos
Sent from my LGMS500 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

How's performance compared to 4.3 or 4.2?

Raymonf said:
How's performance compared to 4.3 or 4.2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my daily use, it is even better than 4.2 and 4.3...
Games runs more smooth and without any lag,
But remember, its an alpha build (CyanogenMoD features wasn't ported yet) and it haves bugs and graphical glitches...
Benchmarking, I got 10058 points (versus 6880 in Stock 4.1.2)
Press thanks button if you liked the video

Hopefully p5110 version will be released soon

Screencast?
Thanks for the video! Does inbuilt screencast work on this KitKat Rom?

Cm 11 is cool,hope Cody can fixed the orientation glitch and Screenshot bug also BBM blackscreen..beside that this ROM was great

Errors found on the early build of CyanogenMod 11 on the Tab 2 7"
1. Black boxes appear when browsing
2. Screen rotation bug
3. @Narciso Neto , when i play 3d games like Modern combat 4, I get lags which is very unlikely on CyanogenMod 10.2 ...can you please tell me how you got it to run smooth.....
Other than that KitKat is Very Very VERY AWESOME!!!!!! UI is DARN SMOOTH but gaming performance........that is where it lacks i guess.....but really do hope they fix this

Oh yeah, what was the wallpaper on your home screen from your video??

jorel040 said:
Oh yeah, what was the wallpaper on your home screen from your video??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using the stock wallpaper, it comes in the Launcher and it's one of the best wallpapers i've ever used )

jorel040 said:
1. Black boxes appear when browsing
2. Screen rotation bug
3. @Narciso Neto , when i play 3d games like Modern combat 4, I get lags which is very unlikely on CyanogenMod 10.2 ...can you please tell me how you got it to run smooth.....
Other than that KitKat is Very Very VERY AWESOME!!!!!! UI is DARN SMOOTH but gaming performance........that is where it lacks i guess.....but really do hope they fix this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. This error shows up in every app that uses browser interface (Instagram like page, GNow, BBM etc), there must be and error with rendering but it should be fixed
2. Should be fixed also (not a big deal)
3. I never palyed MC4 on my tab, but less-hardcore games like GTA III, ShadowGun Deadzone, Dead Trigger got and improvement on perfomance...
KitKat drivers for our GPU (PowerVR) isn't out, and maybe never be released, but I think gaming will be improved also, and get even better than JB's

ashishj said:
Thanks for the video! Does inbuilt screencast work on this KitKat Rom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not sure, but I didn't saw any "screencast" option...

I think Koush built screencast feature for 10.2, the tree was implemented into 10.2's main branch some weeks ago. Take a look at this:
http://review.cyanogenmod.org/#/c/50449/

Kit kat is really pretty. I'll install it later

yes is smooth but is experimental some bug not fixed i ty all 3 version ...internet navigator bug.. no button to close all active app ...rotation animation bug some flash video bug and freeze device but system is good in autonomy this is so positive too...

popmpopm said:
...no button to close all active app...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a CyanogenMOD thing...
Official CM11 wasn't released yet, so there's a LOT of features and simple thing (like this loved button) from CM10.2 that's missing on these builds (because wasn't ported yet)... But they will return, let's just keep calm and enjoy all KitKat glory :cyclops:

Testing Firefox OS in Xperia SP

So, this is a great new !!
http://fxpblog.co/firefoxos/testing-firefox-os-on-sony-xperia-sp/

I had one question always.
Can we xsp users multi boot?

great ! firefox on sp wow

No, it's a side project so it doesn't get much time. Release won't be for several weeks. The issues are not only on the side of device porting but also on the side of Mozilla. It is still under active development, unlike Android which is only released when it is complete.

Yeah, but of we get Ubuntu, it'd better right? But alas, no dev to port it for xsp. Same is for Firefox. As @Levered said it'll take a lot of time to get updates from the op if it gets ported

Levered said:
No, it's a side project so it doesn't get much time. Release won't be for several weeks. The issues are not only on the side of device porting but also on the side of Mozilla. It is still under active development, unlike Android which is only released when it is complete.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but it will get much attention by many devs and also Adam Farden will complete it , ya ya it may take several week or months.... but we can expect a new OS for our SP.
---------- Post added at 11:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:12 AM ----------
pranavthombare said:
Yeah, but of we get Ubuntu, it'd better right? But alas, no dev to port it for xsp. Same is for Firefox. As @Levered said it'll take a lot of time to get updates from the op if it gets ported
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Oh man
This is getting awesome!! I just want to try Ubuntu os but I'm a noob[emoji53]. So I'll rather wait and not make any threads for request.
And thanks man. You are awesome too for giving us hopes for a different os[emoji6]

pranavthombare said:
Oh man
This is getting awesome!! I just want to try Ubuntu os but I'm a noob[emoji53]. So I'll rather wait and not make any threads for request.
And thanks man. You are awesome too for giving us hopes for a different os[emoji6]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've talked to Adam Farden over this and he said its going to be released pretty soon , so stay tuned

Do you have any idea about eta? I know I shouldn't ask but still, a rough idea?

It seems nice
Sent from my C5302 using XDA Free mobile app

pranavthombare said:
Do you have any idea about eta? I know I shouldn't ask but still, a rough idea?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ETA depends on Adam as he is setting up a auto build server i heard... , all features should be working already , just awaiting release...

pranavthombare said:
I had one question always.
Can we xsp users multi boot?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No!
Sent from my C5302 using Tapatalk

Waiting for the firefox os for sp eagerly. Hope to see it can bring a totally new user experience to sp users
Sent from my C5303 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Im waiting too.. Its very good to see Firefox os working on my sp..I'd like to see Ubuntu os too..
Sent from my C5303 using Tapatalk

No new news?
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I'm curious, what are you guys 'eager' to see this?
The reason for no release is due to camera. From what I can tell the camera blobs depend on some Android specific parts which will never be part of FxOS (of course).
Unless this is solved then I will probably not release this for Xperia SP as nobody will use it without a functioning camera.
I'm considering getting Xperia E1 to continue this project as this hardware is better supported in FxOS and it also looks like the camera blobs do not have this limitation.

adfad666 said:
I'm curious, what are you guys 'eager' to see this?
The reason for no release is due to camera. From what I can tell the camera blobs depend on some Android specific parts which will never be part of FxOS (of course).
Unless this is solved then I will probably not release this for Xperia SP as nobody will use it without a functioning camera.
I'm considering getting Xperia E1 to continue this project as this hardware is better supported in FxOS and it also looks like the camera blobs do not have this limitation.
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You caused it lol by posting this and showing a video everyone got all excited also you could just release non working build like many devs do with their custom ROMs: on some phones the phone might never have working wi-fi on custom ROMs (desire c fixed after about a year of tinkering) or if you check out the HTC one x custom ROMs they have a lot of stuff broken too!
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noahvt said:
... you could just release non working build like many devs do with their custom ROMs ...
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No way, missing camera (and bluetooth) are missing features too big to warrant a release.
Besides, would anyone really permanently switch from Android to FxOS on Xperia SP if I fixed these two issues and released it? I'd bet money on it that people would use it for a couple of hours maximum, then realize they need the Google services that push all notifications to the phone.
(FxOS doesn't have push notifications for most things, pretty much everything has to be reloaded / refreshed manually, even syncing contact data.)

tested on older device..
I have already tested Firefox OS on my older Xperia E Dual device.. it kinda sucked.. I didn't like the way it felt and it was laggy and super slow.. maybe it is better here in XSP