Database Users

What is going on...?

Ok first and foremost this is not just another post of someone complaining, in no way am i trying to offend or criticize this new device...these are simply observations made by a previous HTC owner (MDA/Herald/Wing) me...
I understand that the open source to "create" applications is fairly new not to mention all us G1 owners (ive had mine for lil more then a month). My concern is why are we seeing such "simple" programing in applications and things tht in reality none of us would ever use? Not to mention graphics what is going on...Look i have not created any nor have taken the time to even try to create applications, and if you or someone you know has, then my hats off to you, i envy you for knowing how and taking the time to...what im saying is why do all these new applications have so many bugs and in my opinion (cause that is all it is) are sub-par...i know its not really fair to compare to any other device on the market since it is the first of its kind, but im getting a little skeptical...am i alone in this? i find myself checking the android market every hour hoping for some sign to motivate me, but nothing so far aside from the obvious winners (youtube,maps,imeem,wheather channel etc...)...ill shut up now i sincerely was not trying to stir things up, and know/knew when i purcased the G1 it was the first of its kind and would probably take time to show its full potential, i just thought there were some things google had up its sleeve that were ready...does anyone have any insight or knowledge of better things to come...?

timace said:
Ok first and foremost this is not just another post of someone complaining, in no way am i trying to offend or criticize this new device...these are simply observations made by a previous HTC owner (MDA/Herald/Wing) me...
I understand that the open source to "create" applications is fairly new not to mention all us G1 owners (ive had mine for lil more then a month). My concern is why are we seeing such "simple" programing in applications and things tht in reality none of us would ever use? Not to mention graphics what is going on...Look i have not created any nor have taken the time to even try to create applications, and if you or someone you know has, then my hats off to you, i envy you for knowing how and taking the time to...what im saying is why do all these new applications have so many bugs and in my opinion (cause that is all it is) are sub-par...i know its not really fair to compare to any other device on the market since it is the first of its kind, but im getting a little skeptical...am i alone in this? i find myself checking the android market every hour hoping for some sign to motivate me, but nothing so far aside from the obvious winners (youtube,maps,imeem,wheather channel etc...)...ill shut up now i sincerely was not trying to stir things up, and know/knew when i purcased the G1 it was the first of its kind and would probably take time to show its full potential, i just thought there were some things google had up its sleeve that were ready...does anyone have any insight or knowledge of better things to come...?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personally, I find the plethora of apps encouraging, yes, some are more useful than others but the wide range of effort is fan-flippin-tastic.
MY biggest observation is that the Market place needs some severe MODERATOR intervention... the one star "i is first u goons" and "this app suks (because I am too stupid to read the intro to figure out what it is for) really really really needs to be cleaned up/out. (A perfect example is the UTC clock... it does EXACTLY what it says, true, the numbers in the display look like they are from a missile silo, but hey, it is a tribute to the UTC heritage...anyway, people bag on it because they have no idea why, what, or anything else about it... morons)
[/rant]
--M

demontefixo said:
Personally, I find the plethora of apps encouraging, yes, some are more useful than others but the wide range of effort is fan-flippin-tastic.
MY biggest observation is that the Market place needs some severe MODERATOR intervention... the one star "i is first u goons" and "this app suks (because I am too stupid to read the intro to figure out what it is for) really really really needs to be cleaned up/out. (A perfect example is the UTC clock... it does EXACTLY what it says, true, the numbers in the display look like they are from a missile silo, but hey, it is a tribute to the UTC heritage...anyway, people bag on it because they have no idea why, what, or anything else about it... morons)
[/rant]
--M
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i agree "first" comments are riduculous, and if you dont like the application from descrption then dont install it...positive criticism is more then welcome but "this sucks" is getting on my nerves...

timace said:
Ok first and foremost this is not just another post of someone complaining, in no way am i trying to offend or criticize this new device...these are simply observations made by a previous HTC owner (MDA/Herald/Wing) me...
I understand that the open source to "create" applications is fairly new not to mention all us G1 owners (ive had mine for lil more then a month). My concern is why are we seeing such "simple" programing in applications and things tht in reality none of us would ever use? Not to mention graphics what is going on...Look i have not created any nor have taken the time to even try to create applications, and if you or someone you know has, then my hats off to you, i envy you for knowing how and taking the time to...what im saying is why do all these new applications have so many bugs and in my opinion (cause that is all it is) are sub-par...i know its not really fair to compare to any other device on the market since it is the first of its kind, but im getting a little skeptical...am i alone in this? i find myself checking the android market every hour hoping for some sign to motivate me, but nothing so far aside from the obvious winners (youtube,maps,imeem,wheather channel etc...)...ill shut up now i sincerely was not trying to stir things up, and know/knew when i purcased the G1 it was the first of its kind and would probably take time to show its full potential, i just thought there were some things google had up its sleeve that were ready...does anyone have any insight or knowledge of better things to come...?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i agree with you; even though i love this phone there are a lot of things i dislike about it. the only advice i can give to you is to be patient. the phone has 'officially' been out for a little under a month and there is already so much improvements to it:
- 2 updates have already been rolled out,
- we have found a Root and a way to manually update it.
- we are beginning to see system folders moved to sdcard to save space(even though the phone should have came with more memory)
apps on the market are getting better i don't if you have seen the app "bubble". bubble is a basic bubble level that uses the accelerometer to see if something is level and changes as the phone changes orientation it may seem like a simple app but it shows that Google came come out with an update that uses the accelerometer to change orientation.
- first signs of on screen keyboards like akeyui, a7email and a7sms.
all of these improvements in about 3 weeks and tons more to come idk what anybody can complain about besides hardware issues
just wait come Jan 2009 the G1 isnt going to be anything like it is today.
demontefixo said:
Personally, I find the plethora of apps encouraging, yes, some are more useful than others but the wide range of effort is fan-flippin-tastic.
MY biggest observation is that the Market place needs some severe MODERATOR intervention... the one star "i is first u goons" and "this app suks (because I am too stupid to read the intro to figure out what it is for) really really really needs to be cleaned up/out. (A perfect example is the UTC clock... it does EXACTLY what it says, true, the numbers in the display look like they are from a missile silo, but hey, it is a tribute to the UTC heritage...anyway, people bag on it because they have no idea why, what, or anything else about it... morons)
[/rant]
--M
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah there need to be some serious clean up in th commenting sections, some of these comments might discourage people from developing apps for the G1, i think comments should strictly about the apps and not about being 1st or 151st, or bashing other commenters, and people definitely should not comment on an app the don't know how to use.
however developers should include directions on how to use their apps so people do not have to rely on commenting to try and figure out what it does and how it does it.

The point is the development muscle that has been put in the device is minor.I feel like the market is made by kids or teenagers that stopped uploading on youtube and are writing apps using ready made lego kits (APIs). The apps in the market are all basic stuff. There is not even a Divx player for this device available but 5 Video players using the Google provided APIs to play mp4 which only play SOME mp4 files not all.
I love the sliding, bubble and Gmail on it but I cant name too many more things I love. Not even a Navi that works properly. I really cant think of anything else I love about it. No office, word, excel, PDF, flash, divx. The SMS system is grouped together. The actual phone keyboard is beyond basic with no options. There are simply too many bugs on the phone operation itself like bluetooth etc.
Time flies google, we need apps that have more than 10 man-hours of software programming spent on it. Lets stop the growth of many timers and alarms in the market and get some real stuff out there. Microsoft has probably put in millions of development hours into WM and it was not until now that I realized this.

brooklynite said:
The point is the development muscle that has been put in the device is minor.I feel like the market is made by kids or teenagers that stopped uploading on youtube and are writing apps using ready made lego kits (APIs). The apps in the market are all basic stuff. There is not even a Divx player for this device available but 5 Video players using the Google provided APIs to play mp4 which only play SOME mp4 files not all.
I love the sliding, bubble and Gmail on it but I cant name too many more things I love. Not even a Navi that works properly. I really cant think of anything else I love about it. No office, word, excel, PDF, flash, divx. The SMS system is grouped together. The actual phone keyboard is beyond basic with no options. There are simply too many bugs on the phone operation itself like bluetooth etc.
Time flies google, we need apps that have more than 10 man-hours of software programming spent on it. Lets stop the growth of many timers and alarms in the market and get some real stuff out there. Microsoft has probably put in millions of development hours into WM and it was not until now that I realized this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
muscle...DiVix...kids...office...flash...basic...bugs
words that stood out and i DEFINATELY agree

as i said before patience is the key here
the reason why there aren't many good programs out right know is because they are still in development, there are some apps that won google's app contest that are not on the market because they are still under development. developers take their to try and come out with a bug free app and you criticize them for taking to long however if they rush it and get it out with SOME bugs people crucify them. how long did you think it took for divx or flash to be developed for other phones?
why do people expect a phone thats been out for under a month to have the same capabilities as phones that been out for years?
how many phone do you know had divx support right out of the box or even one month after release? i estimate that divx support will be out before the end of the year.
i agree that apps on the market are going the the hole, especially with millions of the same type of apps, c'mon how many different weather apps do we need, how many background apps is necessary. but you got to admit out of the hundreds of apps on the market there are some good ones.

I'm waiting with great anticipation on the games for the g1. Sure i want cut copy and paste, document reader, full video player, full file manager and task manager as well as others but i'm dying to play nes games and others on this phone. The market is pretty lame in the games department but hey i got pacman, solitaire, and a few others free so i'm not gonna complain. I think the apps are very promising and there are a wide variety of them. Granted none of the crucial apps are out yet but i have quite a few on g1 that i love and got em all for free!!! We just have to be patient, i knew going in i would have to be.

All the apps are free. The hardware has only been in people's hands for a few weeks (at most). A serious developer, wanting to create the exact apps we're all hoping for, needs a heck of a lot more time. The SDK was fine, but any serious developer is going to want to log a lot of hours with a physical device (or several) to finalize the product.
And they're not going to do all that, for free.
This device has huge potential, and the reason we're seeing amaturish apps is because the only people who are willing to play around with creating apps for free are mostly hobbyists who want feedback to further their skills.
I predict that once the payment system is set up for the Market, the apps you're all stomping your feet about are going to show up.
The programs we're talking about are complex, writing them and testing them is time consuming, and I assume that they're going to be larger than the apps we're seeing now. It's entirely possible that some of these apps are almost finished, but are waiting for SD card loading to be added to the functionality before they can release them. Some may even be delayed by the announcement of the virtual keyboard -- they may want to integrate that for the launch of their apps.
I think two things need to happen before we're going to see the apps we all want.
-Pay system on Android Market
-The Ability for Apps to be installed and run from the SD card.
Until those two things happen, the App Store is going to be like it is. And it's also time you guys thought about something. The apps that are "missing" were never a secret, most of the complaints I see are about things that were known well before launch, or discovered the first week people had it in hand. If you didn't read up, that's your fault. If you read up and assumed things would be taken care of within one to two months (something no one promised you) that's also your fault.
I'll predict something for you right now, in light of the economy and everything else, it'll be 6 months to a year before HALF the apps we want are available and working. Now, that's just my estimate, but if that sounds "too long" to wait, then I'd invest in another phone rather than spending the next 6 months posting complaints like "why isn't _____ done yet? And where's the ______ app?!!"
Just my 2 cents

I have already heard many apps have been developed but the developers are waiting for the pay system which has already been annoucnced and is coming 3 months after launch.
I am similar to you... give it time and you will see the best things you have ever seen. I mean look at Linux... they have some awesome apps on most linux flavors that make me dual boot into linux just to have. I think this device will be the same as this was the entire purpose.
Google is updating features all the time in the git directory and it won't be long before they fix the main issues and then the developers will be looking at new things to give us.
So far the barcode readers alone seem like such a huge advantage as I haven't seen them on mobile devices before(at least none that worked)

brooklynite said:
The point is the development muscle that has been put in the device is minor.I feel like the market is made by kids or teenagers that stopped uploading on youtube and are writing apps using ready made lego kits (APIs). The apps in the market are all basic stuff. There is not even a Divx player for this device available but 5 Video players using the Google provided APIs to play mp4 which only play SOME mp4 files not all.
I love the sliding, bubble and Gmail on it but I cant name too many more things I love. Not even a Navi that works properly. I really cant think of anything else I love about it. No office, word, excel, PDF, flash, divx. The SMS system is grouped together. The actual phone keyboard is beyond basic with no options. There are simply too many bugs on the phone operation itself like bluetooth etc.
Time flies google, we need apps that have more than 10 man-hours of software programming spent on it. Lets stop the growth of many timers and alarms in the market and get some real stuff out there. Microsoft has probably put in millions of development hours into WM and it was not until now that I realized this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you said my answer in your own post. The device has been out less than a month. That's nowhere near enough time to make those killer apps you're talking about. To google's credit they did put in things like street view with the compass mode and there are those apps you've talked about. It takes MONTHS to do real software developement so you're going to keep seeing more and more alarms and stuff until then.

seriously, does ANYBODY give a ratsass or even use streetview?
They should have made sure all the media stuff and the email was topnotcxh.

I agree 100% with the first post! Google should have prepaired Android better. There is a lot of competition out there and I would say by what I've seen so far they are light years behind. I did not expect that with all the money in the world Google couldn't release product that was better polished. I have put my G1 back in its box and I'm back to my unlocked Tilt, what sucks is going back to the old screen and Edge but its functinality that I need. I wish they made some kind of task aplication that I can put on the screen kind of likr thr picture frame that would display my tasks for the day. I have a Motorola ROKR E2 that runs Linux and there are more useful stuff for it out there. I desagree we have to wait untill we start paying for apliications, I believe Google can afford providing us with free functional software as more and more people will be using their services.

i love my g1, but i agree with these people that google didn't do enough...and i hope they're working to fix it.
i think that their whole "leave it in the hands of developers" approach was probably a mistake. they should have made all the basic applications like they did but also gone a step further to spice up the phone. i hope that google, in the new few updates, incorporates some more stuff, like OUTLOOK SYNC (i wuld love it if they changed the google calendar sync for windows into just google sync and have it sync everything with outlook....funambol right now sucks i have like 80 of each contact!)
they also should have made a GOOD video recorder / player, and even a better music player. they're trying to beat apple at multimedia, and are failing miserably.
they should add a decent on-screen keyboard and maybe even a task manager...or make it only have like 4 open tasks in the backgroudn...because i've noticed my g1 slowing down a lot after having a few apps open.
google should add a manual update button...i'm still on RC28 because i dont feel like installing the modified rc30 or plugging it in to update. have a freaking "UPDATE" button in the system info thing or something.
i think google needs more than 3 home screens...i've already filled all of mine up. they also should have added more widgets, like the guy above me said.
SELECTING TEXT SUCKS. i have to use the trackball to select a ltter of a word...on my windows mobile i could just tap on where i wanted it to be and at least it would get me within 1 or 2 letters...if i tap on a word on the g1 nothing happens!
we need to be able to install stuff to the sd card!
i think i'm missing a lot of things but i've only had the phone for 2 days and i've noticed all that...i hope developers DO step in if google is too stupid not to add more basic functionality.
/rant

Look at it this way currently there is no way to charge for apps that are developed. This is why we are seeing nothing but apps programed by independant programers some of which are good and some of which are useless. Once companies can charge for apps then it will make sence to put money into the development of better more porfessional apps. My suggestion is to just hold off on passing judgement untill the market is finished to where people that spend money in development can recoup those losses. I do think that the market place should have been finished before launch but what can you do.

coffeboy23 said:
Look at it this way currently there is no way to charge for apps that are developed. This is why we are seeing nothing but apps programed by independant programers some of which are good and some of which are useless. Once companies can charge for apps then it will make sence to put money into the development of better more porfessional apps. My suggestion is to just hold off on passing judgement untill the market is finished to where people that spend money in development can recoup those losses. I do think that the market place should have been finished before launch but what can you do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agaqin, super lame of google.
We can get a bunch of usless wank programs, but not proepr ones, becasue they don't have the pay market ready.
Also, I think that certain things like exchange and a proper email client shoudl have been included.

And remember most people are new to development, don't know how many "this is my first try" apps I have seen. When you get that one that charges 20 bucks for the app... you will get another developer who will release it free and just ask for donations... I suggest donating whatever you can to the one that gives it free.

Henchman said:
Agaqin, super lame of google.
We can get a bunch of usless wank programs, but not proepr ones, becasue they don't have the pay market ready.
Also, I think that certain things like exchange and a proper email client shoudl have been included.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
google isnt the one entirely in charge of the market... tmobile is the one wanting money

neoobs said:
google isnt the one entirely in charge of the market... tmobile is the one wanting money
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, but it was google who shoudl ahve made sure that the basics were coveredf well.
The Camera I'm sure can take greta pics, but the controls suck.
The email is severly lacking.
No streaming video.
And they shoudl ahve elarnt form the iPhoen release, that push email fro MsExcahnge should have been there fromt he getgo.
Or the should have built a BB app, just like you can get for WinMo.
No, they focused on teenagers, not professionals.

neoobs said:
google isnt the one entirely in charge of the market... tmobile is the one wanting money
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no....google is not taking any money but is giving 30% of all apps sold to the carriers...tmobile might be the one "wanting" money but they have no control over the app store at all.

why i dont like the pay system at the market

So in all of my pda/mobile net/devices/phones(which are 1 in the same, these days) an experience which started in about 1999 with a palm IIIx a 2nd gen Moto Startac, the first thing I ad software wise is ui enhancments/replacements so despite a long history of piracy, only buying apps that stand the test of time 30 days isn't enough in most cases...
I bought dxtop, ahome (may 2nd have that name wrong) and dxtop seems the best of the 2 so far and does an ok job of fixing the horrible ui, 1 mean 1 big huge "junk drawer" of apps, and 3 desktops(my least favorite method of app orginization) feels very basic and unfinished, why no folders in the junk drawer?... but dxtop takes a long time on my system, I do have lotsa memory resident apps and I'm looking to trim that down...
The price is minimal, but
What does everybody else think,
Don't talk about warez, as that's not the issue, getting a good working market is.
I may have read that there is a return period, but I dunno anything about it, let's talk this out maybe the right people read it.
Bhang

So let me get this straight... you hate the pay system because of the default UI? Not to be an ass but I found no reasons about why you hate it other than the fact that you don't like the default UI and that dxtop is slow for you.
Care to elaborate?

Honestly, I'm confused by the post. I don't see the relation between not liking the default UI and the pay system at the market.
As for the return period:
http://market.android.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=134336&topic=15871
24 hours.

I think bhang's complaint is that 24 hours is not a lot of time to trial an app. I agree...
Fortunately ahome, dxTop and openhome have all provided fairly functional free trial versions.

you are all right I wasnt so clear...
My point is I had an app I wanted to try out, dxtop (in full) so I bought it, now maybe the app isnt the solution to the ui issues I'm having, but I cant get my couple bucks back, unless there is a "return period" im unaware of. 24 hours, if I did nothing but investigate the app for the entire 24 hours, I wouldnt be able to find every nook, crannie or flaw, or have any idea of the usefulness of the app.
Are we expected to buy everything then figure out whats worth it ? whats working out for us...?
my question is how can we get to give apps a good run before we buy them outside 24 hours or the goodOl'e 30 day trials, or crippleware.
the point to remember about my post is:
"Friends dont let friends smoke a bunch of ak-47 and then try post on a technical site"
bhang

Well there's two issues at play. One from the developer side and one from the market side.
From the developer side, many do provide trial/lite versions for testing. From the market side you're lucky to have an opprotunity for refund at all.
Have you ever tried returning opened software to a B&M store? Most won't do anything and those that will tend only to do exchanges. Compare that to the fruit themed application market where, unless something changed recently, the policy is no refunds period.
So in the scope of the software world a blanket 24 hour testing/refund period is very generous and it's up to the developer to go beyond that on their own.

Im not saying that I have any idea on how to make the issues fixed for the DEVs and the END users, The corporations I could care less about, alot of the developers do offer free versions or crippled versions, in the crippled versions you don't know what those other features are like, of course they always sound great, and the free versions are nothing more than the betas that came out before charging was implemented....
I want DEVs to get paid when the apps are good well written and useful, I just dont think the market as it is works, so Ill do what I have always done, test the FULL version as long as I want, then buy the apps that hold up/ stand the test of time, most apps look great the first couple of tries, it when you get to know them do you see the flaws, alot like HUMAN interaction, maybe if I keep posting, I can dump the head shrinker and his 40$ copay
like all software distrobution methods (other than GNU/GPL) are broken

Ridiculously price clock apps?

Sometimes I'll look through and see whats new, and I came accross something rather viral in my opinion, as its virtually spammed out due to its simplicity, when I'm simply looking for new apps.
Luxus Designer Clock by St.Berlin
Seems to be a social experiment in pricing to see if people will notice the ridiculous upwards of €100! ($140 USD Currently). Google has a 24 hour refund system, but on the guy's website in his minimalistic FAQ section, I found this rather funny:
Problem: Payment authorized but then fails to download.
Answer: Please wait, google will contact you with seven days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While I realize this is the flipside of the lack of an approval system, poorly vialed attempts at fraud I would think would be something that should be investigated. It seems also to outline a problem in market browsing that should be easily fixable given Google is the king of search. Would be nice if I could simply omit apps that have 0 ratings, etc.
I'm sure somewhere, some poor sap is going to notice this way after the fact and it will be too late to get a refund.

I am willing to compile a standalone clock to anyone that provides the dial, hour and minute hand.
I too think that devs are ripping people off with the clocks thing.

[Q] Request for feedback: increasing my app usage

Hi all,
As a new dev in the android ecosystem, I am looking for other devs feedback on the following.
I have an app with about a few thousands user base. Growing slightly, but also with a decreasing active ratio.
As my revenue is ads driven, I'd like to experiment a few tricks to encourage users to use the app more, without being too intrusive.
A few ideas:
- show a notification after a few days that the app hasn't been used, to encourage the user using it again.
- feature: user can share the app's install page with friends (stimulate organic growth), via a share intent.
-> Devs, any stories on trying something similar?
Any feedback appreciated.

I'm a new developer, old-time programmer. Put 2 apps out December 21, 2009 and I'm approaching a whopping 30 sales; be happy you have 1,000+ (or more)
Wish I could help with the question, but I'm not really sure how to expose apps to a wider audience. I've thought about porting to iPhone/iPad and Windows Mobile to expand my user base. But I'm still pretty new to Android development and want to get more into it before learning yet another programming language right now.
I've actually thought of going to local bars and trying to strike-up conversations with people using smartphones and showing them my apps. Maybe buy them a drink LOL.
I firmly believe that if you have a solid working app and one person uses it, they may tell 5 of their friends and maybe 2 of them will buy it and tell 5 more people of which 1 or 2 might but it. Pyramid type sales but it's slow moving.
What kind of bothers me is all the damn FREE apps out there; I think they should be segregated from the Google Market; I've yet to go to any type of Market and get something for free! LOL And I wonder about free apps sometimes. Take SMS pop-up or whatever it's called. It's a decent app...it's free. I saw it at "over 250,000 downloads". Well, why didn't they charge $1.00 or $0.50 for it (do the math, I'll take $125,000!!). Any possibility it's forwarding people's text messages? Just sayn'

adn37 said:
A few ideas:
- show a notification after a few days that the app hasn't been used, to encourage the user using it again.
- feature: user can share the app's install page with friends (stimulate organic growth), via a share intent.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your first option sounds REALLY annoying. Your second option sounds perfectly fine. See later on for further points on what might help.
Rootstonian said:
What kind of bothers me is all the damn FREE apps out there; I think they should be segregated from the Google Market; I've yet to go to any type of Market and get something for free! LOL And I wonder about free apps sometimes. Take SMS pop-up or whatever it's called. It's a decent app...it's free. I saw it at "over 250,000 downloads". Well, why didn't they charge $1.00 or $0.50 for it (do the math, I'll take $125,000!!). Any possibility it's forwarding people's text messages? Just sayn'
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not everyone is in it for the money. Some people just maybe write something that is missing on the market but don't want to make money from it. It might be just their hobby. Not everyone needs to be capitalistic, trying to turn everything into revenue.
The Android market is a lot about freedom, and there is high competition between free and paid apps. If your sole intent is to make money on apps, you will probably better off trying to target iOS. The most recent news I have is that an average iOS user will spend 7 times as much money on apps than an Android user. I think this fact kind of speaks for itself.
However if you still want to stick by, here are a couple of things I would suggest:
Offer a (free) lite version of your application as this will give users the ability to see whether your app means business or not, and if they'll like it they might go further to go for the paid version.
Android market uses keyword searching (there's probably a better term), so make sure your description hits as many possible words that may be applicable to your product while not being too heavy to read.
Advertising... don't ask me where as I wouldn't be able to help much with that. But if you're in it to make money, you probably have a business model so you should have some capital too that you can put into advertising.
That's about all I guess.

@Rootstonian
I have apps on the market, and in the last 3 months have made over $1k off ads in my free version, while only making about $250 off of the full paid version.

Very good responses there This forum does have some very intelligent people on it!
I'm anti-adware unfortunately. If that hurts my sales, then so be it; I can live with that. I won't allow ads in my apps.
As far as free versions, I would have to write "crippled" versions of the programs to limit full functionality. Well, not going to do that either. And to be honest, who can't afford $1.00?
Actually, the 15 minute return policy has hurt me I think. Some apps just can't be reviewed in 15 minutes, to wit, my current (almost done) Spam Text Blocker. There is no way someone can evaluate that in 15 minutes, so I have to code some type of limit on how many rows can go into the spam database.
Anyways, I'm way off topic (as usual) and being negative which is usually something I don't do. And I must remember, my stuff has only been out ONE month.
I do use a Macbook Pro, and I have downloaded the iPhone SDK; maybe I should take a break from Android OS and port a couple of apps to iOS and see what they do.
P.S. A smart man doesn't limit his options. How does the apps with ads stuff work?

Just apply to admob, its easy. They give nicely detailed usage statistics too

hi all,
Thanks for the feedback.
On "tell a friend about this app" feature:
Your second option sounds perfectly fine. See later on for further points on what might help.
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I'll just stick with that, then. Any idea what's best to link to? A blog? Android market?
I'm still looking for an app that does it in a nice way, as a case study.
I'm a new developer, old-time programmer. Put 2 apps out December 21, 2009 and I'm approaching a whopping 30 sales; be happy you have 1,000+ (or more)
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I feel you. Unfortunately, this is all about execution and idea potential. As coders, we are often thinking about code quality, this is only the 1st step.
On ads: at the end of the day, it might be a hobby to design apps, but fun decreases when it comes down to fixing bugs for the sake of it. Ihmo, a slight revenue is good, as it encourages devs to keep up enhancing their apps.
I'm anti-adware unfortunately. ... And to be honest, who can't afford $1.00?
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I'm not a big fan of ads neither. It's all about culture. On Android, people are reticent to pay.

Good points and well said Adn
I actually got into this starting with Google Market apps, but my true goal is to get into corporate mobile development. I feel this is a technology barely in it's infancy. Just as almost all business' needed a web page, I think the same will hold true for a mobile app.
I just put in my resume to a company looking for an iPhone developer (1 year contract), but they also wanted to talk to Android developers too (wish me luck LOL).
Now, I'm on the fence as to what platform to go with. I think with the iPhone AND iPad, that iOS is the way to go with regards to corporate coding; so I'm going to head in that direction for now.

Ways to do PPC, for cheap: A Guide.

Hi guys,
I just wanted to share some tips in how to get into paid marketing with you guys. I know budgets are typically low, so that's why I'm going to focus on cheap ways to do things. I know it's unlikely that any of us here click on online Ads, but I've been doing PPC for different companies (tech and non-tech) for over three years; you'd be surprised at how many people do actually click on these ads.
The first, but most important thing, is that you are going to want to make sure that you are measuring how your campaigns are working with Google Analytics; PPC and Display Marketing doesn't work for every type of app.
I'm gonna do a very brief summary of Google AdWords, but there's a lot more information online that really, I'm just summarising and repeating. If you want more details on how the AdWords system works, I recommend just doing a couple of Google Searches. If you know how AdWords work, feel free to scroll down to the bolded "now".
Google AdWords is where advertisers pay for Ads to appear on keywords. Billing works on a per click basis. That is, you are only charged when someone clicks on your ad. You ad could be shown a thousand times, but as long as it doesn't have anyone clicking on it, you won't be charged.
There are at most, ten positions your ads can appear in on the Google Search pages. Ideally, you want to be in positions 1-3.
You can set a bid for every keyword you put in. The highest bid wins, with very one important exception. So, let's say that Acme is paying $2.50 for the keyword "App", Tyrell Corp $1.00 and IndieDevRUs $0.50. When we look at pure amount paid, Acme's ad would be pos 1, Tyrell pos 2 and IndieDevRUs pos 3.
BUT! There is something called quality score as well. Quality score is a measure of how good your landing page is, how much it is related to your KW, and how related your ads are to the keyword. Acme's Ad is actually linking to their home page, with no mention of their App anywhere. Tyrell Corp is a bit better, and have linked to their app landing page, but they don't actually mention the keyword 'app' in their AdText. IndieDevRUs, however, have an amazing landing page, and have ad text all about apps. What now happens is this: IndieDevsRUs is at position 1, Tyrell Corp is at Pos 2, and Acme is at pos 3. Even better; IndieDevRUs is still only paying $0.50 per click, whereas Acme, even though they are at position 3, are paying $2.50 for that position.
(Again, this was somewhat simplified, feel free to ask me questions or to look up more info online)
Now, how can app developers reduce their costs? Well, first, focus on making sure that your landing page and Ads are optimized for this quality score; include your keywords in both places (without being spammy! Think of it like SEO), test ads until you find wording with good click through rates, etc.
One trick to get cheaper Ads is to also look into location targeting. So, in AdWords, I can actually set down to an area code/postcode level my location. City, however, is normally fine. Even if you aren't an app that offer local features, by targeting cities, you can get cheaper costs per clicks.
Also, mobile targeting: It is possible to only target mobiles, thus avoiding clicks from people at computers all together. I've been shocked at how many companies wanting to just get mobile users haven't found this option (it's under campaign settings)
Another area to look at is time scheduling: You can tell your ads to only run between certain hours, or even certain days. I'd recommend running a campaign for at least a week, and then taking a look at the data. Find the hours that give you the best conversions, or cheapest costs per clicks, and set your account to only show Ads during that time.
Also, when you sign up on AdWords, take a look online for any cupons or vouchers; quite often, Google will offer to match a certain amount of your budget; e.g. pay $25, and actually have $50 budget. This is perfect for testing the waters (again, AdWords PPC doesn't work for all apps!)
You will also want to experiment with how to get the best out of the visitors who land on your page. I've seen that not every user will actually go to the play store on a browser to download an app, but will instead only do it on their phones. For one company, I discovered that if we had an email sign up on a landing page when someone is visiting on a desktop computer, we could get people to download and use the app through email marketing. BUT! This is something to test. Another company I tried the same strategy for, and not only did we get no email subs, but the conversion rates for downloading the apps went down.
And in fact, this is one of the biggest pieces of advise I can give for paid ads. Test. Test. Test. Everything you do. Test it.
Edit: Thought of a couple of additional things: Vouchers and Mobile Targeting