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Here goes, my first ever post on any forum. So please bare with me on the following. I'm laid in bed next to my lovely wife and it hits me, why do we mess with all this tech! More rhetorical, than a question. More to the point my wife asks "if it's not broken why fix it?"
It leads me to add to the already hyped wm5. I believe there is a reason behind the so called 'lack of upgrade' for the mda compact. And I may make a believer out of you all.
If you know anything about computers, you will understand about CPU's. My desktop computer is meant to be an amd duron 1600mhz, but I can clock it at 2100mhz. They call this overclocking (sorry, I'm teaching you how to suck eggs). In reality it's what we call a broken spec CPU. The chip probably started off as an amd athon 2000xp. But failed the tests, so not to waste the capital gain. They remove some cache and a couple of IC controllers and hey presto - they made 50 quid at something they should have thrown away. Or should they? This theory is a long standing myth that dates back to the late 90's with broken server chips being rebaged by Intel as mmx 200mhz. It was even stated in a PC mag that celerons were broken versions of p3's. AGAIN certain features were removed to make it cheap. But this is just a myth! Getting back to the mda issue. I think that htc designed many models that are robust... But they decided to try out a spec with the latest (at the time) software. It has to be cost effective and at least meet a minimum quality. And don't forget deadlines. So times ticking away and you get a cut down version of what should have been created. This would explain the lack of support for wm5 as it would be too flaky to use. If at all.
I've for the past 12 months, tried to use bluetooth, make the camera work, have a decent conversation without having to reset or reinstall the crummy software.
This is my forth mda compact. I have no faith in ms, htc or t-mobile, that brings me back to what my wife said.
My answer is they never worked when we got them. But its fun trying to fix or understand them!
HTC went in at the bottom for this and the early adopters of this tech pay the price - but that's business.
I'm ready to through this away cos this is refusing like the little b'tard child it is, to do as it's told.
Question for you all, no need to reply. Have you reset your mda compact more times than the total amount you have ever reset all the home computers you have had or used in your lifetime?
If so welcome to my world.
P.s this is a fantastic site.
I appreciate your logic,BUT
Mine works fine! i have the TMobile MDA here in the US, it really does a good job. I overclocked it to 252, reg tweaks, bluetooth with my Jabra BT250, wifi on G, and I love it. Best phone ever (did 1.13 radio rom upgrade)
Sorry you are having such troubles that are having you type while you laying next to a beautiful bird!!! Throw that thing out and get busy!!!
Good Luck. :twisted:
cheers mate. i'll try n wake her up.
nah to honest i love the phone. I've been in and out of the computer industry for the past 12 years. i'm getting behind. but i still manage to spot issues or problems.
They replaced it 4 times cos i found the problems.I insisted it was software but t-mobile was just starting out with this breed of smartphones.
my main point is no matter what the product, it never lives up to the dream, but it's good to learn how to fix or purge ideas to make something better than what it was original.
I'm just frustrated...
by the way i find it funny that when you show the phone off and tell the crowd it's got windows they ask does it crash
Okay, I'm assuming you all bought your hero's for what it was capable of when you bought it, seeing as there were no confirmed updates from HTC and even Google scheduled yet, so why does the majority get annoyed when their phone misses out on the latest 2.2 update? It still has all the features you bought it for. Any update at all is a positive, no update is neutral since your phone didn't lose anything, it just didn't gain anything either. Besides the fact that our Hero's already have basic flash support and are ahead of most devices in functionality just because it was ahead of its time when it got released?
I am somewhere in the middle: somewhat content with my Android 1.5 Hero and somewhat annoyed at the lack of updates. I think the trouble all comes down to convergence. Let me toss a couple thoughts your way. Generally speaking, in the recent past people have:
1) Paid full price for a computer (laptop, desktop, etc) and then promptly go out at get what ever Internet service provider they want (cable DSL) etc. The computer works on any network.
2) Paid a reduced price for mobile phones for the trade off of signing a contract and being tied to a particular provider. In many cases, only certain phones are available on certain networks. This is the complete opposite of the computer case in #1
3) Expected that their computer will be upgradeable (for a fee) over the years, at least until the hardware becomes obsolete. I know I've had XP, Vista, and Windows 7 on the same machine.
4) Expected that if they wanted new features on a phone, they would need to get a new phone.
Now the phones and computers are, too some extent, converging into one device. If I use my Android phone to check email, twitter, facebook, etc and never make voice calls - is it really a phone? No, it is just another Internet connected device for which my expectations are typically that I can upgrade the device until the hardware becomes obsolete. I didn't necessarily say that should be free, but it should be possible.
Another aspect that people expect of their computers, is that they can load virtually any application designed for that OS. Even today, most applications (if not all?) written for Windows 7 still run on XP. With Android, the applications seem to have been tied to the OS. For example, with my 1.5 phone I still can't use Google Voice search or Google Goggles? Why? My phone has a camera and a microphone, but for some reason you need to have 1.6 for them. Same for the free Google Navigation. You need to have a later version - just to run an application.
Again, I am somewhere in the middle. I have been VERY pleased with my HTC Hero. At the same time, I sure would like Google Voice search, Navigation, multiple gmail accounts, etc. I might even be willing to pay to update it (much like Apple makes people pay for iPod Touch updates). But shelling out $600 for a new phone (I buy unlocked - which is much cheaper for me in the long run) for those features does not seem worth it.
The lesson learned might be to always by the Google phone (i.e. Nexus One or whatever comes next). Google are responsible for pushing out those updates and it seems to happen fast!
I bouth my Hero after I saw the HTC tweet that they are working on the 2.1.
Update from 2.1 to 2.2 is a natural function of Android - it's OTA friendly. If a manufacturer declares Android, it declares everything what goes with it. If they don't want to spend time on such minor updates as 2.2, they should declare that as well: Android without updates. And they have not. So people are angry for not getting what they expect. And the expectatons are absolutely reasonable. That's why I will NOT buy any other HTC device. I learned that they dont't treat us, customers, fairly. They are going to do the same exact thing with the Desire as well. Not going down that path again.
I personally haven't heard one person moaning about not getting 2.2.
But people are expecting 2.1 due to no updates being given on the OS since the handset was released. Hero users were promised a long time ago that we would be getting 2.1 due to 1.6 being skipped, whereas other, lower spec models had that update.
You don't know what functionality will be added two updates later, so not having them is neutral, no one is oblidged to update their products and they can be discontinued whenever they wish. Does it matter? No, you got the phone based on the features it had when you bought it, the phone doesn't all of a sudden get worse because it didn't get an update.
I for one will purchase another HTC device when I'm done with my hero, simply because they deliver the best product with the best feature set regarding android, if updates are slow oh well, I buy phones for what they are capable of at the time of purchase since I can't look into the future, and neither can you.
So - all you set out to do with your original post was anger people and not take into account other peoples point of view? I took some time to provide some rational arguments.
Dont you expect to get updates for your computer? Graphics Drivers? Network Drivers? Operating Systems? Surely you don't just by a new computer everytime you need that functionality. You expect either the OS Vendor or the computer manufacturer to provide updates - both to create new features and fix bugs.
Bug fixes yes, but as they said those will be provided, and no I don't expect additional features, sure I'll be happy with new features but I didn't expect them. Even though phones are getting closer and closer to being computers they aren't.
How are they different?
seshmaru said:
Okay, I'm assuming you all bought your hero's for what it was capable of when you bought it, seeing as there were no confirmed updates from HTC and even Google scheduled yet, so why does the majority get annoyed when their phone misses out on the latest 2.2 update? It still has all the features you bought it for. Any update at all is a positive, no update is neutral since your phone didn't lose anything, it just didn't gain anything either. Besides the fact that our Hero's already have basic flash support and are ahead of most devices in functionality just because it was ahead of its time when it got released?
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I was happy with it when I got it, it was after all the flagship HTC device of 2009. But then about a month later 1.6 came out, and HTC said they were working on an upgrade to 1.6. This was delayed, then 2.0 came out and HTC suggested they would upgrade to 2.0 instead. The same happened with 2.1. But you are correct that they never really announced any upgrades officially, it was just announced on there twitter stream. Which is half the problem really. They kept suggesting that they were working on an upgrade, but kept pushing it back. Had they just done the 1.6 upgrade and then stopped, I don't think half as many people would be annoyed.
What HTC did wrong here was to give inconsistent information, along with delays and then kept junking what they had done and telling people they were working on something better. As a result, people kept hanging on, and being told that if they just waited a little longer then they would get an upgrade. If HTC had just come clean and updated us with offical announcements, or had stuck with 1.6 and been honest about a lack of improvement, then people wouldn't still be waiting.
Also, if you look at the iPhone model, they may charge for upgrades but the original 2G iPhone has only just gone out of support. Given that the Hero was the 2009 flagship Android device, and was still being sold way into 2010, its a little hard to stomach the idea that its out of support so quickly.
tl;dr HTC kept pissing us around and making us wait just a little longer, when it could have just said "not going to happen, here is 1.6, sorry" and this is annoying.
Are we buying a piece of hardware which is only going to be bug fixed, or are we buying hardware which is going to be updated for a certain amount of time even after they're no longer selling it?
In my opinion we're not just buying hardware, we're buying a software package behind it. That software needs to be updated, otherwise some major killer feature in a slightly newer version isn't possible for you to get - such as Google navigation, can turn a 6 month old phone which has the hardware capability into a device which is so frustrating.
I expect my device to last around 2 years, various networks offer contracts on these devices for 2 years, I think it's fair to expect updates to smart phones for that duration. I wouldn't expect every feature to be supported (eg. no live wallpaper if the device can't handle it), but it should be updated so it's possible to run the latest apps on it.
The phone manufacturers need to be honest on how long they plan to support these things, because it is becoming an issue. People feel abandoned if they pay hundreds of pounds on a device and never get an update, whilst other users pay the same amount and get multiple updates. If HTC doesn't want to release updates then that's fine - I'll just consider it before buying the device.
clobber said:
I am somewhere in the middle: somewhat content with my Android 1.5 Hero and somewhat annoyed at the lack of updates. I think the trouble all comes down to convergence [snip].
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Nice argument. I hadn't thought about the convergence issue. You might well have hit the nail on the head.
I see your point, but if you had gotten any other non android smartphone besides the iPhone you wouldn't be getting significant feature set updates either.
But some people bought the hero because HTC said they were working on 2.1 months ago, others bought it because it was advertised "Android" and assumed you'd get Android updates. Others bought it because it's a good phone, but to the first two groups of people, the promise of new features was a reason for buying.
People are annoyed because HTC won't provide an update they've said they're working on (2.1), which seems to be a marketing interference to get as many people to buy a new device, rather than keep using their all one.
Also annoying is that we're stymied from having a generic OS made with drivers for all sorts of mobile hardware, but that's more of a philosophical annoyance.
I'm ticked off at the lack of update, not because I think I deserve an update per se, but more because I think I deserve all the features to work properly on my phone, and they don't.
And it's not like I could have tried it before I bought it either...
I've been an HTC user since 2003 and have always promoted the brand, but I don't think I'll get another one after this.
How many people actually bought this, I heard from 3 or 4 verizon stores near me that they have yet to sell a kin. If you did purchase one is it your only phone or your main phone? Really curious considering the more obvious choices out there, even on verizon.
I'd want one, but they're not available in Europe. And it would be my second phone, since i've got a Nexus already. I REALLY want to toy with WP7.
I bought a Kin Two. This phone is awesome. I won't go through a whole review or anything about it but I can say that I'm loving it. It really is a simplistic phone. I came from an iPhone 3gs, to a Palm Pre, to a Droid Eris, finally to the Kin Two all in 5 months (believe me, you dont want to hear that story). In any case, coming from so many phones with so much functionality I'm really happy to get such a simple change. It may not do 40 bajillion things, but what it does, it does really well. Let me know if you have any actually question about the phone or the OS itself and I will be happy to expand on it.
I actually got one in the mail for free. I haven't activated it yet, but so far it's a pretty cool device judging from what I can do over WiFi. It lacks games, but I've heard they are coming. The music quality is comparable to a Zune (which has superb audio quality) when played over proper speakers/headphones (IE not the phone's external speakers). There's a good deal more I want to toy with, but I have to get it activated first.
You guys are really lucky, getting free phones and all that. I have to pay good money just to toy with these things...
NeoS2007 said:
You guys are really lucky, getting free phones and all that. I have to pay good money just to toy with these things...
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The reason I got it for free is that I am a member of projectkin.com, which helped MS shape the device. They had a drawing on the site for 5 people to win a KIN device. I happened to win.
Link9228 said:
The reason I got it for free is that I am a member of projectkin.com, which helped MS shape the device. They had a drawing on the site for 5 people to win a KIN device. I happened to win.
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Nice, congrats.
Ontopic: I wouldn't buy it, there is no development in the UI yet.
I for one would probably won't buy it either, but I definitely want to toy with it. So I might as well save up for it.
I just saw the Kin1 at my local Frys for $75 no contract. I came home and started looking to see if there are any hacks to get Android or WinMo on it. So far I found nothing so it looks like I won't be buying one.
gedster314 said:
I just saw the Kin1 at my local Frys for $75 no contract. I came home and started looking to see if there are any hacks to get Android or WinMo on it. So far I found nothing so it looks like I won't be buying one.
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Click to collapse
Its sad right? I wish I was better at hacking phones!
I just
picked up the Kin Onem from Verizion $19.99. Been enjoying the heck out of it BUT Bluetooth has me scratching my head. From what I have been able to find out, the Kin will not transfer phone book and will not use Voice dial in car kits. HUH!! Whats to use of BT if not hands free.
There is a possibility that if the car kit has it's own phone book that will work. The phone works fine in my G8GT but no with my Garmin 1490T or Motorola T505. Both receive calls fine but you need to actually place a call from the phone for outgoing.
OH Well for $20 I'll live with it.
I did, sorta ...
Seems like most are giving up on the KIN for valid reasons (volume of devices, Vz/Ms support, etc.). I specifically selected the KIN Two for another reason, so if your interested in some light reading ...
I have poor hearing. Hence I select my phone based on that. I currently use a Samsung Sch-a670 (circa 2004?). Its loud, has excellent coverage and I can text every once in a while. And quote a Vz service tech "Its bullet proof." I had one go through an entire wash cycle in my pants pocket and three days later, after it dried out it worked. After hitting it with worse than a "bullet", I bought the same phone on ebay for $12, works great.
So why the Kin Two. I read an article in the NY Times that said Vz will end the "New Every Two" plan. I really had no reason to upgrade but I figured I'd look as I had a freebie coming.
When I read about the Kin I got an idea. In the summer, I frequent the Beach with many friends. We all have a great time including lots of food, party and, of course tunes. My old mp3 player was failing (buttons from the sand). Problem was this was an old Sansa M260 that uses AAA batteries. Many days we are on the beach 12 hours. Most MP3 players will go dead in the middle of the day. With the M260, I just pop in another AAA.
So, the Kin has the sound of a Zune, a 8 mp camera and takes HD video. I figure with all the radios turned off (for good-Airplane mode), the battery would last a couple of days playing MP3s. So I loaded the Zune software, ratified the ID3 tags in my 4 G music collection and have a great new MP3 player. (Zune application expounded on id3 tag abnormalities in my music files not seen using copy and paste to the M260).
Some things I've found with the Zune ...
(1) It would always come up with the "activate" process, an annoying first step. There is a character sequence to bypass this (SHIFT+ALT+L) but you have to do this every startup. I turned the radio on, activated once (*228) then turned the radio off and reactivated my Samsung. Now the Kin starts up directly to the Home apps page.
(2) The battery was nearly discharged when I got the phone. Charged to 90% in a couple hours. Took two days of non-use to get to 100%. Now it gets to 100% fairly quickly. First time battery issue?
(3) For anyone not using the Zune software for mp3, picture, video library, it's a pretty nice application, does a nice job managing the media on the Kin Two - syncing is great. Cons: its large, its no roadrunner. But with any recent hardware, thos are non-issues. In perspective, I have and will never again load iTunes on my PC.
(4) WI-fi works and is easy to set up if you set-up your router. Make sure wi-fi is on (settings, wireless controls), select "other" enter your network name (SSID), select the encryption type used on your router and enter the encryption key. If your cable/FIOS/telephone guy set up your router, it may auto detect (no wireless security) or you may need to call customer service to get the wi-fi security settings.
I've rearranged the Home screen based on my planned usage. The only other thing I like to do is change the welcome/ending screens when I power the device. But i think that requires modding the firmware rather than a simple file download. From what I've gathered on these boards that ain't happening - the phone will fade away as quickly as it appeared (has once already). But I'll be happily dancing on the dunes for at least the year warranty.
Regards ...
Actually, I think this phone is selling rather decently as a feature phone. It shouldn't be surprising, because it easily out-guns Verizon's other feature phones in terms of hardware, it's the only one that has wi-fi (besides the one-m), it easily has a better camera, a larger touch screen, better processor, and more onboard storage than anything sold in their feature phone fleet. The main things that turn people off to this phone now are the stupid lack of common features like no forwarding messages, no timestamp on every message, no microSD card slot, the bluetooth doesn't work, no VZ Backup assistant or for that matter anyway to input your contacts any other way than manually. I have this phone, and for a feature phone, it absolutely owns, but it should do SO much more. It can't even view MS documents, I mean, seriously Microsoft? A document viewer shouldn't be too much to ask for. I agree, millstonemike, the built-in Zune is great. It's one of the redeeming features of this phone, in my opinion. I am never going back to my iPod or iTunes.
i just bought one for company testing... id love to see custom roms on it, especially with more feature filled bluetooth.
Just ordered a KIN TwoM
I have been using my Verizon Razr for just over 4 years now. I've been thinking about getting an Android smartphone, but in the end I just didn't want to pay $30 / month / line for the required data plan.
When I found that the Kin TwoM has web browsing via WiFi, and no data plan requirements, I was instantly sold.
I haven't gotten the phone yet, so can't comment much further. I really hope that more people will try this phone and that there will be some progress on developing the KIN platform.
Sent from my KIN
This Kin TWOm is pretty cool. I`m still getting used to it, but so far no complaints.
Regarding importing contacts, I took my old RAZR and my new Kin into a Verizon store and they transferred the contacts for me in about 10 minutes. Piece of cake.
Jon
-Sent from my Kin TWOm
It seems to me that the KINm phones (or atleast the TWOm) are the only product in a specific niche of the cell phone / smartphone market, namely they offer WiFi browsing w/o an expensive data plan.
I would suspect that there is a pretty big group of users who would want exactly that. But, they probably don't know the option exists, especially if Verizon doesn't really advertise this phone. (They don't even have it in Verizon stores that I have been to, only online, listed under feature phones). Of course, it's not really in Verizon's best interest to promote this, considering they _want_ you to pay for a data plan.
So, this leaves me feeling very uncertain whether this "relaunch" of the KIN phones will ever catch on?
Also, is anyone else on the board interested in this phone still? I thought Kin threads were fairly active, but maybe it's just me?
Jon
jon2012 said:
It seems to me that the KINm phones (or atleast the TWOm) are the only product in a specific niche of the cell phone / smartphone market, namely they offer WiFi browsing w/o an expensive data plan.
I would suspect that there is a pretty big group of users who would want exactly that. But, they probably don't know the option exists, especially if Verizon doesn't really advertise this phone. (They don't even have it in Verizon stores that I have been to, only online, listed under feature phones). Of course, it's not really in Verizon's best interest to promote this, considering they _want_ you to pay for a data plan.
So, this leaves me feeling very uncertain whether this "relaunch" of the KIN phones will ever catch on?
Also, is anyone else on the board interested in this phone still? I thought Kin threads were fairly active, but maybe it's just me?
Jon
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Click to collapse
I agree that if Verizon would advertise this phone it would possibly catch on. As for the Kin in Verizon stores, that's actually where I got mine and I've seen Verizon's reps trying to persuade people into getting the phone.
The phone seems to be getting pretty good reviews and response from buyers, but like you said Verizon is doing a poor job of promoting it.
And there are a handful of us both here and on Microsoft's forum site that have been trying many different approaches, but unforturnately none of us are experts in routing phones. A few us have bricked phones now, and we still haven't made to much progress, but still hoping someone can make progress.
This link rates the twom as the best messaging phone.
Kin TwoM= Win!
I am switching to the kin twom from a HTC Thunderbolt. I have a xoom as well, so I really don't need to keep paying for data on my handset. I have had several android phones, and for that matter several winmo phones in the past. I am excited about this because this really is a great phone for a "feature phone". No data, but having wifi is really sweet. I want to hack it and port android to it, which may not be possible, but either way, I think this really is a win, especially if you have a tablet.
Spectredroid said:
I am excited about this because this really is a great phone for a "feature phone". No data, but having wifi is really sweet. I want to hack it and port android to it, which may not be possible, but either way, I think this really is a win, especially if you have a tablet.
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that depends on the point of view. For me, even if i'm pretty naughty with it, it isn't a great phone, caused in most part by the software..
- Software lags a lot (should not for the "few" resources that we use).
More if you take in account that we are using a tegra device with a 0'6Ghz CPU. My crappy PDA with 203mhz can play Age of empires mobile without lagging, and this phone can't just run the menu smoothly (sometimes). I smell bad optimization...
- The browser support for rtsp is kinda lame (no flash support and just redirection to mobile sites to a streaming protocol). Browser in general is pure **add your favourite badword here**.
- The wifi detection is barely ok, but several times it can't find the ESSID even if it's near it (@ my home wifi router) and you have to turn on, turn off the wifi till it awakes.
- Suffers from random reboots (if some software freezes). Happens to me sometimes, even with the phone playing the "i'm like a brick" game alone over my desk.
- It's battery is fastly drained by the OS, cause you cant close apps, and they are surely running in the background, like other windows ce OS's. If you open your browser after rebooting, it's there forever. If i could add only 1 app to a kin in the wooorld, i would add a battery/app ultraconfigurator to reduce so.
- Sometimes it can't even load some apps and shows a "loading..." window till it's... well loaded.
.....
On the other hand, the screen is pretty well done, imo. It detected my touchs almost perfect, whenever i tried.
At least, they solved the old bug that the original kin two had, where you set a wifi and can't reenter wifi settings cause the os hanged doing so (one or several reboots needed).
It would be so cool if it was sold unlocked & without contract for 100$. Then use dataplan with the company you want, and with installable apps.
I am currently looking for an alternative OS or ROM on a phone. My big challenges are I have a great grand fathered in at&t data plan. I don't want to loose and There is no good phone that is both on their list and seems to give me the option to try different ROMS or OS's if one dose not fit my needs.
I truly believe if there is a place that linux could fit best it is on my private device. I don't mind windows for my Daily desktop but in the past few months I have watched the location data icon flash on the top of my phone despite having turned location data off. It would be nothing for google to truly allow us to make this choice on our own. An it always felt wrong to get a google phone hack it and then side load a ROM like copper or even lineage.
I haven't looked into Paranoid Android user yet. The real thing I keep bumping my head against is compatibility with AT&T so I guess I am here to ask the following questions.
If I do a custom OS like Post Market OS, Sailfish, even Ubuntu touch. Will some screw with my AT&T plan while others don't. Its not like I am going to tell them I switching the OS but I imagine there is something in there that allows them to throttle remotely and prevents tethering etc? perhaps one of the choices spoofs that. What is the best ROM/OS for this? Crapy call by the courts on that one BTW when that decision was handed down, and kudos to the absolute BOSS who went after AT&T. Funny thing is I am not even that big of a hot spot user. I have no problem with cafe wifi. It's not like I am doing banking there and I air gap that Laptop from my home wifi. The rare occasion that I have needed it was a recent business trip and even that wasn't allot of data. But I digress.
Second question I want to support the linux community that are building new OS's for existing devices as I think that is really the week point for adoption at this time. I have been thinking about it and I think the best way to do it would be to hire a new developer to give a hand to an existing project for a few weeks. Fresh eyes and all that. Any recommendations on how to select one?
It's not that there is anything wrong with ROM's but they all use AOSP and allot live hardware designed for there retail version android meaning they get at least a licensing fee for each one. I am big believer in actual capitalism in divers markets with real consumer choice. What we have today is not it and supporting the behemoths in any way isn't really the key to success. I could take you down the rabbit hole of how the problem is the government and things like the CIA investment corporation AKA In-Q-Tell. Picking winners and loser's and taking free market's to the wood shed and shooting it in the head. However I think that is enough and it gives my disposition. So, you might Have a good Idea on how to guide me.
Thanks for any help.
WoW no response at all. Did I post this in the wrong place maybe it should be someplace else.
As per the mod bump i guess