Database Users

[Q] Porting Roms to I9500?

Hey guys, this is kind of a silly question knowing that the two devices (i9500 and i9505) have different processors and graphic cards but is it even possible to port the i9505 custom roms to the i9500?
Developer Question: How hard would it be if possible to port it and how hard would it be to make the rom compatible for both devices?
Thanks in Advance
Stay Cool:d

nabil alami said:
Hey guys, this is kind of a silly question knowing that the two devices (i9500 and i9505) have different processors and graphic cards but is it even possible to port the i9505 custom roms to the i9500?
Developer Question: How hard would it be if possible to port it and how hard would it be to make the rom compatible for both devices?
Thanks in Advance
Stay Cool:d
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i guess its possible
compatibility might not be a big issue cause u r just going to port apps,media frameworks and lib files
But u can only port ofiicial 4.2.2 based roms of i9505 to i9500
Which guide r u referring to while porting?

Arjav23 said:
i guess its possible
compatibility might not be a big issue cause u r just going to port apps,media frameworks and lib files
But u can only port ofiicial 4.2.2 based roms of i9505 to i9500
Which guide r u referring to while porting?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
is it possible to port MIUI rom to i9500 ?

gdonanthony said:
is it possible to port MIUI rom to i9500 ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which miui?
Is it based on stock 4.2.2 ?
Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk 2

i dont know about which is which though
maybe v5 just guessing

gdonanthony said:
i dont know about which is which though
maybe v5 just guessing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
link?
from which phone?

@Arjav23
MIUI v5 Galaxy Nexus (4.2.2) ive just seen it
BTW heres the link: http://en.miui.com/thread-4841-1-1.html

gdonanthony said:
@Arjav23
MIUI v5 Galaxy Nexus (4.2.2) ive just seen it
BTW heres the link: http://en.miui.com/thread-4841-1-1.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Y don't you give it a go
Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk 2

Arjav23 said:
Y don't you give it a go
Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i dont have experience.. and my laptop is broke
if someone can do it he will be famous for it

gdonanthony said:
i dont have experience.. and my laptop is broke
if someone can do it he will be famous for it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At the moment I'm trying to port a rom fron s3
Maybe after that
Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk 2

Arjav23 said:
At the moment I'm trying to port a rom fron s3
Maybe after that
Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if u can do it go for it ...
thanks in advance

nabil alami said:
Hey guys, this is kind of a silly question knowing that the two devices (i9500 and i9505) have different processors and graphic cards but is it even possible to port the i9505 custom roms to the i9500?
Developer Question: How hard would it be if possible to port it and how hard would it be to make the rom compatible for both devices?
Thanks in Advance
Stay Cool:d
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would say it's nearly impossible, as i9500 and i9505 had different processors, camera sensor, GPU etc. Talking about processors, the Exynos 5 Octa and Snapdragon 600 is a big difference. Those ROM files like lib.so and framework files had already built in for their hardware.
However, I remebered that someone wants to port HTC One ROM to Galaxy S3 International version (Exynos 4 Quad), it worked. But with lots of lots of bugs including lags. When he gaveup he finally stated that it's hard to port ROMs on different hardwares.
Hope this helps
Sent from my Galaxy S4 i9500

TheMrcool212 said:
I would say it's nearly impossible, as i9500 and i9505 had different processors, camera sensor, GPU etc. Talking about processors, the Exynos 5 Octa and Snapdragon 600 is a big difference. Those ROM files like lib.so and framework files had already built in for their hardware.
However, I remebered that someone wants to port HTC One ROM to Galaxy S3 International version (Exynos 4 Quad), it worked. But with lots of lots of bugs including lags. When he gaveup he finally stated that it's hard to port ROMs on different hardwares.
Hope this helps
Sent from my Galaxy S4 i9500
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
are u sure?
cause i have sucessfully ported many roms from galaxy ace to galaxy apollo

Pls port roms on cm10.2
Sent from my GT-I9500 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Miui V5 for Samsung Galaxy Note 3

Guys, is there a possibility that MIUI V5 will support our new phone? I really want MIUI with TW Framework on my Note 3. Thanks.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

nicholadia said:
Guys, is there a possibility that MIUI V5 will support our new phone? I really what MIUI with TW Framework on my Note 2. Thanks.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Sent from my SM-N9005

nicholadia said:
Guys, is there a possibility that MIUI V5 will support our new phone? I really want MIUI with TW Framework on my Note 2. Thanks.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is already for note 2,
Theres always a possibility seeing as they have done it for note 1 and 2,
I made the same post 10 minutes before this one :L
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2487670
Strange
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium HD app

Unfortunately it may takes a while because the MIUI v5 is currently based on 4.2.2 but not 4.3, but GN3's stock roms are 4.3
That is why there is already MIUI roms for galaxy S4 (stock roms are 4.2)
So maybe we have to wait until MIUI develops a 4.3 version (MIUI v6?)

misterashman said:
There is already for note 2,
Theres always a possibility seeing as they have done it for note 1 and 2,
I made the same post 10 minutes before this one :L
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2487670
Strange
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, I was referring for Note 3....It was just a typo. Yes, I owned note 1 and note 2 and I was using MIUI.
sent from nicholadia's Samsung Galaxy Note 3

peter4k said:
Unfortunately it may takes a while because the MIUI v5 is currently based on 4.2.2 but not 4.3, but GN3's stock roms are 4.3
That is why there is already MIUI roms for galaxy S4 (stock roms are 4.2)
So maybe we have to wait until MIUI develops a 4.3 version (MIUI v6?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope that they move fast to Kit Kat version as eventually we are getting that 4.4 update...
sent from nicholadia's Samsung Galaxy Note 3

justin
peter4k said:
Unfortunately it may takes a while because the MIUI v5 is currently based on 4.2.2 but not 4.3, but GN3's stock roms are 4.3
That is why there is already MIUI roms for galaxy S4 (stock roms are 4.2)
So maybe we have to wait until MIUI develops a 4.3 version (MIUI v6?)[/QUO​TE]
I'm willing to pay someone to make me a miui rom I don't care what rom it's based off if it's stock or whatever but I need miui
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

well im hoping they or we at XDA can manage to make it based on CM11. so much faster but yes you lose the S-pen features. only time will tell

No MIUI yet??
Really thought there would be a wiff of Miui by now atleast for the N9005 Snapdragon ? The note 3 is a great device but because off development I'm starting to regret not waiting for the S5 as I only got my note end of Des

I am really hoping for miui on note 3. It look so awesome :good:

Leonidas300 said:
Really thought there would be a wiff of Miui by now atleast for the N9005 Snapdragon ? The note 3 is a great device but because off development I'm starting to regret not waiting for the S5 as I only got my note end of Des
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Be happy with your note 3. The S5 was a disaster and a straight up dissapointment. Note 3 is a better phone of the 2. The only differences are that the S5 is waterproof and a minimal margin better cpu. you won't feel the difference.

Not disappointed with the phone I'm talking about development. You can bet your bottom dollar two months after the S5 release we will see MIUI and many other Roms on it as people are going to flock to it. What is very disappointing from the note 3 is it hasn't got half the development that the Note 2 have and the phone is already 6 months old
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Hi all, anyone know of an update for this. I had MIUI on my GS4 and loved it. Now have the SM-N9005 and would love to have the same ROM on this device.
Cheers

Flame_Beard said:
Hi all, anyone know of an update for this. I had MIUI on my GS4 and loved it. Now have the SM-N9005 and would love to have the same ROM on this device.
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope we will receive MIUI shortly. I'm still waiting for this Rom to be ported.

IzArsha said:
I hope we will receive MIUI shortly. I'm still waiting for this Rom to be ported.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good things to those who wait hopefully. One of the reasons why I picked myself up a Note 3 was because the Note 2 was so hugely popular with a myriad of custom ROMs available. Thank Samsung for KNOX which has kind of put a dampener on the developement of ROMs and porting of them too IMO

Leonidas300 said:
Not disappointed with the phone I'm talking about development. You can bet your bottom dollar two months after the S5 release we will see MIUI and many other Roms on it as people are going to flock to it. What is very disappointing from the note 3 is it hasn't got half the development that the Note 2 have and the phone is already 6 months old
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my thoughts exactly...note 3 did not get that many custom roms heck even PA is not available for the note 3 and some developers are already moving on to newer devices....still it is a free service and i am happy for what i got with the snapdragon variant and a moment of silence for the exynos guys

rusty-ragster said:
my thoughts exactly...note 3 did not get that many custom roms heck even PA is not available for the note 3 and some developers are already moving on to newer devices....still it is a free service and i am happy for what i got with the snapdragon variant and a moment of silence for the exynos guys
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
PA just need a Legacy Maintainer is all, if you want you can compile it and release it. They'll allow it. They officially maintain Nexus devices only. Hence other brands being Legacy. (PA is a very small team, hence them asking on G+ for legacy maintainers)

I am sure I read that miui is in closed beta testing for our phone. Had to have so many miui credits before u could apply as tester though.
Kieron
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

http://en.miui.com/download-234.html
Seems like the real thing.
Users reporting that you need to use philz recovery to flash and that whatsapp isn't working (yet)?

breezerx said:
http://en.miui.com/download-234.html
Seems like the real thing.
Users reporting that you need to use philz recovery to flash and that whatsapp isn't working (yet)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's been pulled from the download section. Can't find it
Sent from my SM-N9005 beast of a phone.

[Q] [REQUEST] Porting CM11 to Galaxy Y

Recently, a XDA member ported CM11 to galaxy ace! and heard that it will soon be available for other low end devices like Mini, Fit, etc!
So, I wonder if it is possible for Hi-Fi Devs to make CM11 just boot on our device (Just like CM9)?

lionelsuyog said:
Recently, a XDA member ported CM11 to galaxy ace! and heard that it will soon be available for other low end devices like Mini, Fit, etc!
So, I wonder if it is possible for Hi-Fi Devs to make CM11 just boot on our device (Just like CM9)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think no.
Sent from my GT-S5300 using Tapatalk 0.01a
1. Love doesn't need any reason.
2. Wanna speed up 3G (not 4G LTE)?
Here it is:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2586876

lionelsuyog said:
Recently, a XDA member ported CM11 to galaxy ace! and heard that it will soon be available for other low end devices like Mini, Fit, etc!
So, I wonder if it is possible for Hi-Fi Devs to make CM11 just boot on our device (Just like CM9)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its time wasting. We can't make it work and stable without drivers, so no need for it and we have to get satisfaction with with cm and half working cm
Sent from my GT-S5360 using Tapatalk 2

galaxy mini, gio and ace have cm11 but they are qualcom powered and not broadcom, so I think no...
Gesendet von meinem LG-P880 mit Tapatalk

Even Galaxy 5 which is less powerful than galaxy Y has CM10! I feel so sad of myself!

nbock97 said:
galaxy mini, gio and ace have cm11 but they are qualcom powered and not broadcom, so I think no...
Gesendet von meinem LG-P880 mit Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Broadcom distributed the driver for CM7! Now, lets force them to release drivers for CM11! :silly:
But How?

lionelsuyog said:
Broadcom distributed the driver for CM7! Now, lets force them to release drivers for CM11! :silly:
But How?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. The devs are forking the drivers from an Alcatel phone with BCM21553 SoC running vanila (AOSP) Android 2.3.7 .
Sent from HKV (allwinner a13) 7" tab using Tapatalk 4

luqman98 said:
No. The devs are forking the drivers from an Alcatel phone with BCM21553 SoC running vanila (AOSP) Android 2.3.7 .
Sent from HKV (allwinner a13) 7" tab using Tapatalk 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder how many devs are still working on it?
HnnnnnnnnmnHmmmmmmmmGpuuuuuuuuuuuuu

DeniablySam said:
I wonder how many devs are still working on it?
HnnnnnnnnmnHmmmmmmmmGpuuuuuuuuuuuuu
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually,devs are working on it...I got a pm by lopicl.00 that he is building CMX for tassve and totoro as soon as he completes the builds he will give me for testing. Please be patient,if you cannot,buy a new device rather
And get a Stable CM11
Broadcom has cheated us too,the EGL Drivers which they gave us didn't worked..so devs working hard on it.Let them take their own time and let's be patient till then
Regards

lionelsuyog said:
Recently, a XDA member ported CM11 to galaxy ace! and heard that it will soon be available for other low end devices like Mini, Fit, etc!
So, I wonder if it is possible for Hi-Fi Devs to make CM11 just boot on our device (Just like CM9)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
BAD IDEA!
lets first have stable & working cm7,9,10 on our device..... then we should go for CM 11 .....

link for CM11 for Galaxy Y:http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2766229

NaDSJR said:
link for CM11 for Galaxy Y:http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2766229
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First, see the date of thread!
It was posted before CM11 development started on galaxy Y!

[Q] CyanogenMod 10 / 10.1 / 10.2 / 11 on Galaxy Y ?

So, I want so much a new CyanogenMod port for the Galaxy Y
Can anyone port the new CMs (10.1, 10.2, 11) for the Galaxy Y ?
Please :X
Thanks!
--- Galaxy Y --- CM7 by PsychoGame
---Galaxy Tab 3 7.0 --- Stockrom v5

K3VYNC said:
So, I want so much a new CyanogenMod port for the Galaxy Y
Can anyone port the new CMs (10.1, 10.2, 11) for the Galaxy Y ?
Please :X
Thanks!
--- Galaxy Y --- CM7 by PsychoGame
---Galaxy Tab 3 7.0 --- Stockrom v5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These are not possible as the broadcom is not releasing our device drivers.
Sent from my GT-S5360 using Tapatalk 2

K3VYNC said:
So, I want so much a new CyanogenMod port for the Galaxy Y
Can anyone port the new CMs (10.1, 10.2, 11) for the Galaxy Y ?
Please :X
Thanks!
--- Galaxy Y --- CM7 by PsychoGame
---Galaxy Tab 3 7.0 --- Stockrom v5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IF U WANT CYANOGEN MOD TO BE PORTED
U HAVE TO FORCE BROADCOM TO RELEASE DRIVERS
SIGN THIS PETITION FOR THIS AND ALSO SPREAD THE WORD
https://www.change.org/petitions/broadcom-release-the-driver-source-of-gpu-and-cpu-for-bcm21553-devices

Hopeless
abhishekr700 said:
IF U WANT CYANOGEN MOD TO BE PORTED
U HAVE TO FORCE BROADCOM TO RELEASE DRIVERS
SIGN THIS PETITION FOR THIS AND ALSO SPREAD THE WORD
https://www.change.org/petitions/broadcom-release-the-driver-source-of-gpu-and-cpu-for-bcm21553-devices
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think there will be no use even if Broadcom releases the driver sources.
It is too late. It is because people are migrating from Samsung Galaxy Y and buying some other device that has cool developments.
There are few chances that they will return to this device.

the_pirate_predator said:
I think there will be no use even if Broadcom releases the driver sources.
It is too late. It is because people are migrating from Samsung Galaxy Y and buying some other device that has cool developments.
There are few chances that they will return to this device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ive built a solid concrete hope that they wont even care
HnnnnnnnnmnHmmmmmmmmGpuuuuuuuuuuuuu

All request worthless....I think Broadcom delete the source of driver from its DB.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2454937
Is this the latest drivers ?
Sent from my SM-T210 using xda app-developers app

K3VYNC said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2454937
Is this the latest drivers ?
Sent from my SM-T210 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
they were test binaries that never worked properly

Answer
K3VYNC said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2454937
Is this the latest drivers ?
Sent from my SM-T210 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I need not reply for the post. The answer is in the same link that you have provided. Read the reply posts in that thread and you will come to know yourself!!

And to think that other companies are actually helping users, like Motorola releasing the source code of the RAZR D3.
And people are to blame Google because of fragmentation when companies themselves help fragmentation happen.

Galaxy Y can't receive real Jelly Bean. All ROMS you see like JellyBlast and Nemesis and many more are stock-based. The only different ROM that is different is CyanogenMod 7, which is actually 2.3.7 instead of stock 2.3.6 .
Galaxy Y cannot receive a Jelly Bean build. Even if it ever receives a ported build, it might be full of bugs. For example, CyanogenMod 9 is said to be real ICS but it's full of bugs.Most ROMS that appear as ICS+ are probably themed, or tweaked with build.prop editor
I wish the developers are doing the best in order to satisfy you and many other Galaxy Y users.
Sent from my P3110 using xda premium

Yes, I will not undo my galaxy y ... something like the specific kernel that uses biel in your CM9 Beta 1 may serve in the future. Galaxy Y has served for many entering the world of android and learn about the advanced, which can be used in future smartphones. One day will repeat a similar story that no one will want to support us.

Its long back since I forgot the dream of ICS+. People don't waste your time on such threads. Better get a new phone, never go for Broadcom. You will be happy and get every Android version update.
(Samsung Galaxy SL, released in 2011 like SGY, got stable Kitkat and not to forget nexus phones who have seen every android version)
We already have sent petition from change.org but
Broadcom will never release required Libraries (I wonder why people mistake and call it "drivers")
and no stable version will be possible.
I am not pessimist, neither I have lost hope (I am personally trying to fix things) but I am just being realistic.
Sent from my GT-S5360 Gadget of Mass Destruction by xda-app
using CWM........Busybox commands........ No I use my hands

Nah :/
K3VYNC said:
So, I want so much a new CyanogenMod port for the Galaxy Y
Can anyone port the new CMs (10.1, 10.2, 11) for the Galaxy Y ?
Please :X
Thanks!
--- Galaxy Y --- CM7 by PsychoGame
---Galaxy Tab 3 7.0 --- Stockrom v5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We dont even have stable CM 9 forget later CM's and we will not be having it until devs get libraries

ritikchanna said:
We dont even have stable CM 9 forget later CM's and we will not be having it until devs get libraries
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
devs get libraries ? haha the drivers come from broadcom and even the best devs in galaxy y section cant build it
so cm7 and AOSP is now all we have. dont set your hope too high on cm9 or later XD

Mranggapo said:
devs get libraries ? haha the drivers come from broadcom and even the best devs in galaxy y section cant build it
so cm7 and AOSP is now all we have. dont set your hope too high on cm9 or later XD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dont underestimate the devs out there ..Few months back CM 7.2 was not stable but now is and so will be CM 9 if they get the drivers/libraries

ritikchanna said:
if they get the drivers/libraries
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's one very big if, bro.
Sent from my CM7 GT-S5570I

NightRaven49 said:
That's one very big if, bro.
Sent from my CM7 GT-S5570I
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah but it is still a if .
Though chances are very low but there are still chances

ritikchanna said:
Dont underestimate the devs out there ..Few months back CM 7.2 was not stable but now is and so will be CM 9 if they get the drivers/libraries
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is like youre dreamin, most of our old devs were migrated to newer devices. Cm9 for galaxy Y is just like dream.

Samsung Stock kitkat 4.4.2 for Galaxy Grand

Friends please make a stock 4.4 Rom for our galaxy grand duos...
becoz for S3 Archiport . 4.4.2 rom is available with full S5 look ....so please anyone build such a Rom for Grand...
Sorry for my bad English....and Thanks in Advance..

vadakkeveetil said:
Friends please make a stock 4.4 Rom for our galaxy grand duos...
becoz for S3 Archiport . 4.4.2 rom is available with full S5 look ....so please anyone build such a Rom for Grand...
Sorry for my bad English....and Thanks in Advance..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay with that we'll add a ramdisk from note 3 and yeah also Broadcom has released wireless charging chipset we'll include that and also make the processor quad core like s3 is it fine now satisfied???
Have some conscience and pls dont spam!!! [emoji34][emoji35]
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

Sulaimanshariff said:
Okay with that we'll add a ramdisk for note 3 and yeah also Broadcom has released wireless charging chipset we'll include that and also make the processor quad core like s3 is it fine now satisfied???
Have some conscience and pls dont spam!!! [emoji34][emoji35]
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HAHA...

Sorry frnd ......Archiport kitkat based stock rom is really nice ..........thats y i asked ........sorry for spaming......

vadakkeveetil said:
Sorry frnd ......Archiport kitkat based stock rom is really nice ..........thats y i asked ........sorry for spaming......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Note 2 and s3 have same soc
Thus porting is possible
No one besides sammy can MAKE a stock rom...if any bcm28155 device gets kitkat . i guess porting would be possible..

Sulaimanshariff said:
Okay with that we'll add a ramdisk from note 3 and yeah also Broadcom has released wireless charging chipset we'll include that and also make the processor quad core like s3 is it fine now satisfied???
Have some conscience and pls dont spam!!! [emoji34][emoji35]
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey 4.4.2 sammy custom rom will be possible for s2 and note 1 without quad core processor......and ramdisk from note 3....

doctor_droid said:
Note 2 and s3 have same soc
Thus porting is possible
No one besides sammy can MAKE a stock rom...if any bcm28155 device gets kitkat . i guess porting would be possible..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks sir .....

May not be possible
Pretty difficult task.

vadakkeveetil said:
Friends please make a stock 4.4 Rom for our galaxy grand duos...
becoz for S3 Archiport . 4.4.2 rom is available with full S5 look ....so please anyone build such a Rom for Grand...
Sorry for my bad English....and Thanks in Advance..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There you go
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2698242

doctor_droid said:
Note 2 and s3 have same soc
Thus porting is possible
No one besides sammy can MAKE a stock rom...if any bcm28155 device gets kitkat . i guess porting would be possible..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Galaxy Mega 5.8 will get kitkat soon and it has the same CPU of the Grand.

I can not install the CWM recovery, when odin finish and shows "PASS!" the device boot in to android system stock recovery mode
any idea why?
my androis is 4.2.2 official

Look what we have here!
vadakkeveetil said:
Friends please make a stock 4.4 Rom for our galaxy grand duos...
becoz for S3 Archiport . 4.4.2 rom is available with full S5 look ....so please anyone build such a Rom for Grand...
Sorry for my bad English....and Thanks in Advance..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey mate,are you looking for something like this? Check this outhttp://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2698242