Related
Would like to request a forum for the Barnes & Nobles Nook Simple Touch. It runs Android 2.1, and has been rooted. It is the first e-Ink reader with a full-fledged OS, and is eminently hackable. Its SoC is the same as the Nook Color, and CM7 will likely be ported to it. It has a 2-month battery life and daylight-readable screen, at a low cost of $139. It is shipping now.
http://barnesandnoble.com/nook/index.asp
Rooting instructions: http://nookdevs.com/NookTouch_Rooting
Reviews: http://barnesandnoble.com/nook/reviews/index.asp
I second this request.
Agreed. I want to see this thing rooted!
It's been rooted! http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1115701
Please add a forum for Nook Simple Touch !!!
Agreed! Already rooted my Touch, but there seem to be no forums dedicated to this thing. This will be the ultimate e-reader when you can put Kindle/Kobo etc. on it!
+1
+1. The device is already rooted,and the forum link above is holding discussions on getting a launcher on there. Roms are soon to follow.
+1
Right now I'm thinking on how to get this nook. It should be very interesting - kind of e-ink tablet
Heh, we're skeptical about adding this. The Nook Color was easy because it's a full color Android tablet, and once rooted, it's a pretty great device. But the new monochrome Nook, even once rooted, can really play back videos, browse the web very well, etc.
But...if there's enough interest, we might have to oblige.
svetius said:
Heh, we're skeptical about adding this. The Nook Color was easy because it's a full color Android tablet, and once rooted, it's a pretty great device. But the new monochrome Nook, even once rooted, can really play back videos, browse the web very well, etc.
But...if there's enough interest, we might have to oblige.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would be great if we could convince you to overcome your skepticism. I have a rooted Nook Color and just got the Simple Touch for my mother. It's a great little ereader, but my idea in getting it for her was to root it and set her up with some basic Android goodies like email, calendar, Facebook, other ereader apps like Kindle and Aldiko. Videos clearly out, but that's fine for this kind of device.
Please chalk me up as interested!
Another vote for a specific Nook Simple Touch forum!
It has been rooted, it is similar under the hood to the Nook Color, and it runs Android. Just because it has an e-ink screen and can't do full motion video doesn't mean the machine isn't capable of being utilized for more than what was intended. The sooner we get a dedicated forum the better. If there isn't one, we are going to end up with a flood of posts in the Nook Color forums where they don't belong.
onlyforandroid said:
It would be great if we could convince you to overcome your skepticism. I have a rooted Nook Color and just got the Simple Touch for my mother. It's a great little ereader, but my idea in getting it for her was to root it and set her up with some basic Android goodies like email, calendar, Facebook, other ereader apps like Kindle and Aldiko. Videos clearly out, but that's fine for this kind of device.
Please chalk me up as interested!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, I don't think anyone is expecting the touch to ever be able to work like a "standard" tablet with angry birds (despite the demo, lol) or video playback. What would be excellent however would be development of a ROM or guides to aide loading that allowed additional apps that increase the usefulness of the nook touch, for example:
Additional ebook readers/distribution services like the kindle app (the lack of access to the kindle bookshop is the main criticism highlighted in reviews)
Word processing/editing applications on the go
Web browsing/social networking like Facebook
Simple gaming, for example chess or draughts or turn based strategy games like uniwar.
Essentially giving you an ereader that can also do a few extra functions when you are out and about
svetius said:
Heh, we're skeptical about adding this. The Nook Color was easy because it's a full color Android tablet, and once rooted, it's a pretty great device. But the new monochrome Nook, even once rooted, can really play back videos, browse the web very well, etc.
But...if there's enough interest, we might have to oblige.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Svetius,
I agree, the Nook Touch has its limitations as compared against conventional tablets. But that is what makes it interesting. As said, it's the only e-Ink product that has full-fledged Android and can be hacked to run regular Android apps. It's not a conventional tablet. It has its drawbacks, but it also has its unique strengths. It's very cheap, very light and compact, its battery lasts forever, and it can be used anywhere, indoors or out.
I've always thought of XDA as a place where we can talk about interesting tech toys, not just toys that are popular, or toys that have to be the same as other toys. Rather than adding yet another me-too Tegra 2 tablet, why not have something different and interesting for a change?
HP
I think that what we're looking at here is not simply an e-ink tablet (write mail, surf,etc), but the "One Ring" of e-ink readers. One e-ink device for all formats. Add my request for a NST forum please.
Picked one up at the bricks&mortar store tonight... It definitely has potential!!
Haven't had a chance to root it yet, but managed to load all of the Adobe Digital Editions books that I had collected on my 1st gen s-l-o-w kobo... (from several different bookstores) The browser needs work (I could see my gmail messages, but attempting to reply shut down the browser) There is no zoom or rotation for pdfs yet, and some obvious file formats (.jpg, .png ??) don't seem to be recognized consistently... but the screen isn't bad and it's relatively snappy. It's light, and really small... wifi works flawlessly, kb is pretty good.
Would love to see what can be done with it.
iam interested too!!
eink tablet would be awesome
thinking of text based services/apps like ssh, icq, irc, twitter, email, electrodroid, wikipedia...
e.mote said:
I've always thought of XDA as a place where we can talk about interesting tech toys, not just toys that are popular, or toys that have to be the same as other toys. Rather than adding yet another me-too Tegra 2 tablet, why not have something different and interesting for a change?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My thoughts exactly!
another one requesting this forum !
At the moment little bits of information are being scattered here and there, would be great to have them all in one place!
Another vote for a Nook Simple Touch forum!
I picked mine up yesterday and it's a fun little device. I'll be rooting it soon, and this thing definitely has lots of potential with a good community of developers!
For instance, how to unlock that gig of storage space that's reserved for bought B&N books... hehe
svetius said:
Heh, we're skeptical about adding this. The Nook Color was easy because it's a full color Android tablet, and once rooted, it's a pretty great device. But the new monochrome Nook, even once rooted, can really play back videos, browse the web very well, etc.
But...if there's enough interest, we might have to oblige.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Come on! Get moving on a forum for the Nook Touch!
I just got ADW and K9 e-mail running on this thing! Reading e-mail is beautiful on this thing!!! We need a proper Android distribution that gets around the menu and launcher navigation issues.
Maybe rename the Nook Color main section to be 'Nook devices' and drop this underneath as a sub-forum?
But aye, looks hackable, is a /really/ neat device. Deserves one forum hopefully, not sure (for now) needs the usual 'general/qa/dev/accesories' splitting.
So from the various threads that are around in the Nook Color thread, so far people have managed to
- root the nook touch,
- access superuser permissions,
- Work out there is 728mb usable ram and 228mb program memory,
- Install and run ADWLauncher and LauncherPro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4dMZvff9qg- Install and run FBReader
- Install and run the Kindle app http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4MJungKIxY
- Suggest that the CPU is the same as the Nook Color?!?
- Suggest that the Nook Touch has Bluetooth but it is disabled
- Suggest that devs will start work on a CM7 port
Some excellent developments already and an exciting future for the device, please may we have a forum/sub-forum now? Pretty please with sugar and cherries ontop?
I just bought a refurbished Nook Touch on overstock for $75 (with coupon). I've already got a Nook Color, which I love, but I don't like the harsh light from the LCD at night. I also live near the beach and having the option of taking my reading material there would be awesome.
Anyway I'll be rooting it right away, as the Economist and the WSJ are two of my major reads and I need to get to the android market for those.
1) With the scrolling/rendering limitations of E-ink, is there any page up/down option available?
2) Are there any other customizations that you guys like, and feel like it makes the downside of an eink a little more palatable?
3) Is there any effort in creating a (GB+) custom ROM or (and I'm dreaming) CM with a custom launcher? Just something I can track, and support once they have a working alpha/beta. I'm a little worried for the future of my little e-ink tablet if it never gets a software update.
Anyway thanks for the great material already posted and I look forward to learning more.
Thanks!
Barnes & Noble has decimated their Nook development group.
Their latest endeavor, the white Nook Glow is a mish-mash of old and new software.
It appears that they've dropped the other two Eink models.
I do not ever expect to see any further updates or developments from B&N.
Eink has always played their cards close to their chest.
They have always presented their products as OEM, that is for manufacturers only.
To get the most out of devices with Eink displays application developers must also have a good understanding of Eink.
Just go to the Eink website, there is no useful information available.
A visit to Eink Developer Center shows just one kit for development of tiny readouts, not full displays.
I am not sure that I agree eInk is dead. I think it will have a niche market out there for a while. I am one of those people who really don't like reading on a back lit screen for any length of time. Perhaps it is due to my job where I stare at back lit LCD monitors all day long. In any case, I want to read on an eInk screen, not a back lit LCD. Until someone develops another tech to take to place of eInk, there will be people like me looking for eInk devices.
As for the eInk Nooks. They are dead. The future of eInk devices is high resolution 1024 x 768 capacitive touchscreen like the Kindle Paperwhite or the newly introduced Tolino Vision from Germany.
Hmm, that new Tolino looks interesting.
Still, I wouldn't say that 600 x 800 vs 768 x 1024 is the biggest deal for me.
The screen resolution is adequate for my eyes.
That it's the Carta display, whiter and faster would be some incentive.
A faster processor, more RAM and a more recent Android would be a win.
Of course I like eInk, I just think with prices being more than an LCD tablet it will remain a niche market.
It is my impression, from what I have read, the the extra resolution is somewhat necessary to make up for the extra layer needed for the capatitive touch screen. I agree that the 800 x 600 on a Nook with an IR touch screen is plenty good enough for these 50+ year old eyes.
No, E-Ink isn't dead. I have had a NST and I've been very satisfied with it as an e-reader. It's still easier on the eyes than even the best backlit display. My hope has been that someone might develop an E-Ink tablet not only for reading books but also for other text-intensive apps. Check out meetearl.com, for one interesting possibility. In the meantime, some folks have figured out that the Kobo line and the Tolino line are very similar in hardware. Long story short, I now have a Kobo Aura HD running Gingerbread from a microSD card. And it's not too bad at all. I don't use it for games or video, but it works well for the apps I've wanted to run on an E-Ink display. Gingerbread is old now, but significantly better than Eclair. The folks at Earl plan to use KitKat. It's still in development. No, E-Ink isn't dead yet!
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
I will have to admit that I bought a Nexus 7 tablet (1st gen, 32G) because my NST was less than completely adequate for some things. However, now, months later, I still find myself using the NST for almost all my reading. It is lighter, and easier on the eyes than the Nexus.
Dead? Maybe, but you can have mine when you pry my cold dead fingers off of it!
MildBill
All the black eInk Nooks have disappeared from the Barnes & Noble website.
You can only find them on places like eBay now.
I'm not sure about the brick-and-mortar stores, I'll have to check.
I am interested in how the Tolino will work out.
There is this video (in German): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SulHahVHxIE
It doesn't really look impressively better.
I spend 99% of my time doing straight reading and my NST works as least as well as that.
eInk devices are going to be primarily for those who (like myself) like dedicated devices. I want my camera to take pictures, I want my phone to make phone calls, I want my eReader to read, and I use a tablet for other media (video / web / music). I believe that there will always be a market for such devices, whether that market is sufficiently lucrative for products to be developed and sold is another question.
We have an NST and a new Kobo Aura HD. I did all my serious reading on my NST. It's still one of the best eReaders out there. If the NST ran a newer version of Android, I would have looked no further. But, I wanted to be able to read books and articles from a few other apps on an E-Ink eReader, apps which won't work on Android 2.1. When I learned that the Kobo eReaders are very similar to the Tolino line, and that someone found a way to run the Tolino Shine's ROM from a microSD card on a Kobo Aura HD, I became very interested. I went and did it. The Tolino ROM works fairly well on the Kobo. The Kobo reader has some good features, like Pocket integration. If you put the NST and the Kobo side by side, you can see the improved resolution on the Kobo. But I still prefer the way the NST formats and presents ePub eBooks. I hope I'm wrong, but it seems like B&N is bailing out of the eReader business. That would be sad indeed if it is true.
Sent from my Kobo Aura HD running Gingerbread
Renate NST said:
Barnes & Noble has decimated their Nook development group.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source?
http://www.geekwire.com/2014/layoffs-hit-barnes-nobles-nook-division/
http://www.businessinsider.com/barnes-and-noble-hardware-engineering-staff-2014-2
http://www.techspot.com/news/55625-...arnes-nobles-nook-engineering-department.html
http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/end-in-sight-for-nook-following-job-cuts-138724
Renate NST said:
http://www.geekwire.com/2014/layoffs-hit-barnes-nobles-nook-division/
http://www.businessinsider.com/barnes-and-noble-hardware-engineering-staff-2014-2
http://www.techspot.com/news/55625-...arnes-nobles-nook-engineering-department.html
http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/end-in-sight-for-nook-following-job-cuts-138724
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you!
New Sony Dpt-S1, 13" reader looks like intersting use of Eink technology. But screen refresh still looks better on Nst with fastmode/norefresh
and PocketBook Cad reader, strong specifications like for eink
13",1 Ghz dual core, android 4.0, 2gb ram...
The take-up probably would have been far quicker had ereaders been cheaper. I'm guessing the biggest cost of an ereader is the eink display itself? Is it really that much more complex in it's design than an lcd that prices seem to be high for most ereaders (i know the technology is different, i mean the manufacturing process costs)? Most people would opt for a tablet as you can get really good ones with beautiful screens (Nook HD for example) for less than the price of a new Kindle, Kobo etc and you can do SO much more than just reading. Yeh, ereaders are easier on the eyes, but i doubt most tablet owners care about that when you add all the other functions of a tablet.
I think ereaders will always continue to exist, and i think as more and more people start using their tablets for reading entire books as opposed to just websites, articles, magazines etc, they're going to look to something that's easier on the eyes and ereaders will always be an excellent option, especially if more less restrictive ones come out that allow you to sync other files as well very easily without having to root them and install apps like dropbox, airdroid etc yourself. Kobo's Pocket for example is a great addition, but far more options to the user would be better, such as choosing which article sync app you wanted, Pocket, Readability, InstaPaper etc. Sync apps should also be the norm such as options to choose between Dropbox, gdrive, etc as well as maybe a basic browser like Opera Mini (mini so you get basic text versions of sites rather than the full sites that ereaders struggle with and output ugly results.
What i'd really like to see is great tablets with all their power, but with the addition of an eink display attached to the back Yeh, it's going to be thicker and slightly heavier but i think it could work. Similar to to Yotaphone, but not as rubbish as the Yotaphone (i read really bad reviews), instead, the eink side would work the same as any other touch screen ereader. You can even have a cover that flips over to cover the backside so only the screen you're looking at is exposed so if you put it down you don't have to worry about scratches. The implementation could be so much easier as well, instead of trying to figure about how you get the image on the eink side (a problem Yota did not fix well), you could just mirror the tablet side exactly, so there's no additional complex software conversions to do, that way if you want to end your web browsing session on your tablet and read a book, just open your ereader app, flip your tablet and read on you eink side and flip pages the way you already do on an ereader via touch.
If i had the money and the know how i would be designing a Tablet/Ereader hybrid like that myself. Had this idea for a long time, but never understood why someone didn't do it (other than the cost). I'm sure there are reasons that others will point out maybe, but i'd much rather buy a Tablet/Ereader hydrid long before i buy the failed SmartPhone/ereader hybrid as the latter is pointless, reading on a small phone even if it is eink is still difficult and makes you strain your eyes.
I think the Nook Simple Touch is really the optimal format in many ways.
6" is a good size for reading reflowable text.
It's not that great for page formatted (i.e. PDF).
It's too bad that B&N cut so many corners.
Not all the delay can be blamed on the eInk itself.
The processor is slow and there isn't a lot of RAM.
It would have been nice if they had gotten the Jorjin chip with Bluetooth.
I can compare navigation speed on large documents using the same reader app (i.e. my new app) on my Nook and my old disused Kyocera Rise cell phone.
The Nook shows as pretty slow.
I agree, it is sad that B&N ruined the Nook e-inks.
Was never (and am still not) a fan of Amazon devices.
E-ink devices are still evolving.
My next e-ink device is getting closer to release. http://www.meetearl.com/
Being full Android KitKat device, it has the options I want and a few extra.
I am not really sure if e-ink is going in or out.
I see contradicting moves out there:
- Best Buy has eliminated all e-ink readers from their (brick and mortar) stores. I went to three of them this past week and only Kindle Paperwhite is present. Their explanation: tablets are replacing them.
- hower: one can see bigger e-ink readers being released, which also have more of their Android base exposed: Onyx Boox M96M Zeus, ICARUS eXceL 9.7". It seems that those producers of ereaders that still want to be in the market add features so that they bring the feature convergence on their side.
I personally love the e-ink displays and would very much like to have a modern phone/tablet using it. Keeping my fingers crossed !
I'm in the market for an eInk device to be used exclusively for non-ebook purposes. I need something with the battery life of an ereader as opposed to that of an LCD based tablet. My application does not require the flashy color, or the fast redraw of an LCD, it's simply going to be an interface for a control system of sorts. The UI will not require scrolling but be primarily page based, and no high frame rate video. The most advanced thing that might be displayed is the occasional slow update grayscale "video" (maybe a frame or two a second at the most but even that's not terribly likely). Touch is required and a lit screen would be a big plus (hence the list of devices I mentioned). I also require wifi connectivity, cellular is not important and would never be used.
I do like the idea of using a device that runs Android as it would give me a greater number of options for development. While I may stick with HTML5 and JS I also like the possibility of writing a true Android application. I'm not interested in Android Play or any of the other Gapps, though I suppose I could sideload them if I feel the need. I will most likely be running a very simple custom launcher so that the device operates more like a purpose built embedded platform rather than a general purpose Android tablet.
My question is what device would the experts here at XDA recommend I use? The Kindle has the benefit of the 800 pound gorilla that is Amazon but it doesn't run Android natively. Nook has the benefit of a decent sized company behind it, the fact that it runs Android, the downside is I'm not entirely clear on how long B&N will stand behind their eInk devices. Kobo is the little guy in the corner, I know next to nothing about the company, the build quality of the device, or the future of the eInk devices, but like the Nook it appears to run some version of Android.
In truth, it's not really all that important that the device I choose be offered forever. This is a personal project, nothing that's going to market. What's more important is hackability, Android, and at least the possibility for newer custom Android ROMs to be installed.
Thank you for your help.
--adam
P.S. If this is the incorrect forum for this I apologize.
I think a Nook and a native Android app will be fine for control purposes.
I'd avoid the whole HTML5 stuff.
It's easier to get lean, mean, responsive if you stay away from browsers.
There is already enough interchangeability among Android devices.
E-Ink options
True grayscale video of any quality would be a stretch as you'd likely be dealing with refresh flashing between frames at even 1fps. Every hack I've seen for improving refresh behavior involves switching to 1-bit color depth. Some solutions preserve the appearance of grayscale through halftoning like a newspaper photo at the expense of image resolution.
One thing's for certain about the Nook Touch series, you'll never get anything newer than android 2.1 on it. A number of closed binary drivers need to be replaced for truly custom firmwares and you'd be limited on RAM anyhow. You will not be able to expect B&N to stand behind the product line in the future. Note that the most recent 4gb NSTglowlight lacks an SD slot and is thus more difficult to root. That said, I'm very pleased with my Glowlight as a bare-bones Android device.
The Kobo Aura HD tablet would at least get you Android 2.3 and is rootable. I'm not certain how strong its developer community might be. One advantage over the Nook seems to be more even distribution of light across the display surface but I can't confirm from hands-on experience.
If you're comfortable with Linux, you might want to consider the Onyx Boox. There's at least a few scraps of information on the manufacturer's site about developing custom Qt apps for the Boox platform. Onyx has announced new tablets using Android but they don't seem to be available in the wild yet.
PocketBook out of Europe supposedly makes all sorts of e-ink Linux tablets, little, big, and waterproof; I'll be damned if I could tell you how to buy them though. Any evidence of purchasable shipped product I can find in English regards old models and dates from a couple of years ago.
Personally, I'm hoping the Earl GPS/walkie talkie Android tablet makes it out of vaporware.
dayofthedaleks said:
Note that the most recent 4gb NSTglowlight lacks an SD slot and is thus more difficult to root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not so. Now that the development on USB booting has been done, it's trivial.
See: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=51742352&postcount=373
Renate NST said:
Not so. Now that the development on USB booting has been done, it's trivial.
See: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=51742352&postcount=373
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I stand corrected!
dayofthedaleks said:
I stand corrected!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Consider the Onyx Boox T68. Similar specs to Kobo Aura HD, and it runs Android 4.04. A bit more expensive, but maybe what you're looking for.
Sent from my T68Lynx using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
I echo the t68 comment. I got mine from Amazon a few weeks ago and it even shipped with prime shipping and was only $200. Totally worth it as an EReader. IDK of it would work for your purposes. But it comes with the play store and I haven't had any issues with it installing any app I've thrown at it.
Sent from my SM-N900T using XDA Free mobile app
We all love the Nook but it's getting kind of old in the tooth.
Ok, the Glow4 (7.8") finally upped its game to 1 GB RAM, but that was kind of necessary.
It also added Bluetooth, something that could have been done cheaply and easily to earlier models.
Although I'm no fan of using the latest and greatest Android version, 4.4.2 is getting a bit old.
I understand that this is a tough business where every little part on the BOM (bill of materials) will hurt you.
Still, using single core processor is so yesterday. A Raspberry Pi Zero has quad core for $10-15.
To my mind a 6" 300 DPI reader is about optimal for flowing text reading.
For frequent or work PDF reading I'd want a 10" 300 DPI reader instead of high power reading glasses.
The 8" reader seems to fall uncomfortably in the middle.
The Kobos are Linux based, not Android.
Onyx has some decent choices in their (confusedly similar) product palette.
The older stuff has Android 4.4, the newer stuff Android 9.0
They have quad core and even octa core.
The "Poke 2" looks pretty nice for a 6", but why did they have to add the silver styling?
https://onyxboox.com/boox_poke2
(Oh, well, some sandpaper and a can of black spray paint would fix that.)
As I am in love with the Aard dictionary, my NST has been simply wonderful. But I understand Kobo no longer support an SD card. Where to now?
Same boat. I just got rid of my GLP BNRV510. Hated the light grey, small dictionary font. Also reading PDF seemed to convert those documents to oversized images. My NSTw/GL was awesome. I was going to upgrade to the new NGLP7.8 but the specs and issues with overheating are a turn off. Also I have read reviews stating that you can't side load books anymore? This may also apply to the GLP BNRV510 with the latest firmware update too. Which eReader now?
The Glow2 (BNRV510) is my main read.
If I have to read a PDF, I read it in landscape at two "chunks" a page.
I wouldn't think that B&N would try to lock down sideloads and I don't anticipate it would be hard to defeat.
I hope not but I understand the arguments for your question. To be honest NST as it was not my first choice (first choice was some Sony model) but I love it now. Last time I checked Kobo Aura looked nice but that was long ago and I do not know how things look now on the market.
Recently I was scrubbing my head around this issue. How I see the problem with NST? Well B&N locked out anything and everything humanly possible to prevent users doing something they did not wanted them to do. Devs unlock most of the obstacles out of protest or because of challenge ahead. As it runs ancient version of Android apps are scarce and disappearing fast. Writing an app dedicated for NST might be an act of love toward hardware base made by dedicated fanatic but we can assume there are not to many such individuals around today as Rennate said Nook is old.
So without further ado there are few roads as I see that could be taken if NST is to continue ahead.
1. Upgrades to Android version as far and much its hardware allows and using slightly more up to date apps for it (like CM11 approach running from SD card allows).
2. As Android is just an overlay on Linux leave it as is for B&N sake and good sleep but make some dual boot solution that will actually allow us to boot Linux (something in the line of Ubuntu for devices but not exactly so because as far as I remember that work only for versions of Android above 4) as that could give user maximum possible ability to customize it for his/her use.
3. Just say bye to B&N and build new NST OS from scratch be it Linux or another version of Android as that might be easier due to a clean slate/paper ahead and being less bound to a obstacles made by B&N.
4. It might be possible to create also dual profile on the current NST OS but given its restrictions that might not be of some great use - (B&N profile and user profile). What other forum members think about it?
P.S. I did not want to create separate thread about this and this thread seemed to fit in the general idea of talk about it. I hope Rennate wont mind.
Nah, I don't mind.
I use the same reader app on my Glow2 and everything else, including my $70 Walmart Onn 8" tablet.
Even a cheap-o (single CPU) tablet has 2G vs the Glow2's 0.5G
For better or worse, people like the Android ecosystem as a way to make apps.
Of course, Google & Co are working on making everything ginormous and expensive.
(And adding even more pointless animations.)
It's always a question of how much work you want to put in to fight annoying things.
Renate NST said:
Nah, I don't mind.
I use the same reader app on my Glow2 and everything else, including my $70 Walmart Onn 8" tablet.
Even a cheap-o (single CPU) tablet has 2G vs the Glow2's 0.5G
For better or worse, people like the Android ecosystem as a way to make apps.
Of course, Google & Co are working on making everything ginormous and expensive.
(And adding even more pointless animations.)
It's always a question of how much work you want to put in to fight annoying things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am glad that you do not mind and find this discussion still within topic you started.
As always you hit problem in the head with much less words then me. I have always wondered what are the limits of hardware requirements needed (minimum) for some tasks/programs to run reliably. And we see that people test those boundaries each day.
You are correct that Android had given people app making opportunities. Sadly recent trend is to take away that from us on old devices as this one. I agree that "awww look its so shiny and buzzing" might look nice but regarding information value its pretty much crap (no way to put it politely sorry). Information is what the people using books/ebooks find to have some merit and it is in the form of text, graph, still picture mostly. I accept that sometimes video can be better tool for presenting certain information but general trend is not in that direction. Information in any shape and form I will accept gladly. Sad truth is that today we have to duck and fight against flash advertising and eye candy web UI of very little value and dubious quality.
I have some doubts what would be the most likely way to continue that is why I made that post. If it was my thread I would make a poll but even here I am willing to hear what is your opinion? Amongst four options I wrote up what would you most likely choose as a way forward? Also if possible please explain why.
1) I think doing an upgrade of Android version on an older device is a bunch of work and hardly justified.
2) I'm not a fan of dual boot. I like to keep things simple. Especially on my main reading device where I just want to pick it up and read.
Android "Linux" has quite a few different things than normal Linux. If you want Linux, get a Kobo.
3) Porting something new to the NST is a lot of work. See #1
4) I don't see the necessity of dividing profiles. I also don't understand what you're looking for.
Ok, I'm a fan of the NST, but it's had its day. The Glows have better resolution and backlight.
You get your choice of capacitive (Glow2) or IR (Glow3) touch screen.
The Android 4.4.2 on the Glows is not so bad yet. (The NST Android 2.1 makes life difficult.)
I think more memory, Bluetooth and a better processor would be on my wish list (in order).
Yes, the Glow4 has Bluetooth.
With enough effort you can fix any little technical thing in life that annoys you.
(I just spend this morning grinding and filing down a piece on my brand new guitar because I couldn't stand the design.)
It's a question of time and also how many people your effort would help.
I think an Onyx Boox is in my future, but I wish they didn't have so many silly models.
It's funny, I still use my original Nook Simple Touch, but a few times a year I find myself curious and looking to see if there's a perfect e-reader out yet for me to upgrade to. In the end it always just seems like nothing is really so much better that I really want to buy it, though.
In particular, page refreshes and overall responsiveness, which are the main things I'd like to be better, still just haven't improved enough on affordable e-readers, in my opinion. A backlight would be kinda cool, but hardly seems like a big deal since personally I'm still pretty used to reading real books, which obviously don't have built in lighting either. I guess a higher density screen might be nice, but I can't say I really notice it on my NST. Newer Android? Maybe, though I've really always been able to find an app that does what I need and works on the NST even with Android 2.1, so I'm not sure what the advantage would be.
I'm a pretty light user of my Nook, though, I guess. Most of the time I'm just reading epubs or sometimes pdfs (scientific papers, which are usually published as double columns, so they work just fine on the NST screen), plus the occasional word games or round of picross here and there. Someday I'm sure I'll upgrade to a new reader, but I think it's gonna be a while at the rate the technology has been improving.
You have stated all valid points here. I understand them and agree to most. Maybe I should explain in more details my points.
I use NST as is. Still restrictions imposed on user by B&N are frustrating sometimes. I mentioned upgrading Android on the device only because its own base is abandoning 2.1 and cutting of access to application made for this version. I have nothing against sideloading apps but if the source to such apps is going to dry out it might be a time for a change. Theoretically with slight upgrade of Linux kernel on it upgrade to gingerbread/honeycomb looks doable. Is it worth the effort is a valid question and that is exactly what I am asking for opinion here.
I am mostly using an OS from that Redmond firm. Although I want to learn and use Linux more I am certainly not looking into using it on e-reader despite it is possible to do on Kobo. Point of dual boot would be to leave B&N stuff as is and do on Linux what you like. At least on Linux you would not be that easily cutoff from apps you want/need. Again looks doable but I am not sure if it is recommendable. Reason for me to considering this is that more and more I read about trying to write/rewrite an apps for this device. Even I have started something similar to porting Linux program to Android and being frustrated by next to nill progress so far started to wonder am I doing it backward and should I run Linux on NST and program in the environment it was written for.
I am surprised Renate is not for whole new OS because the way I see the things she is already halfway there with all the apps she wrote for NST. . I know OS is another matter but let's face it it was half baked product to begin with. I mean Phone.apk really? On a device without sound support! And that app control volume? Man B&N really had shoestring budget for software developer and had us use port of some phone OS instead writing dedicated stuff.
I find multiple profile least advised on such low power device but I could see its merit here and there. I have a cousin which would be happy if she had kids profile on its phone as that would prevent paying triple digit roaming charges. NST most likely do not have the power to pull of multiple profiles although in theory something like that could be made even for Eclare in some crumbly way.
NST have resolution just above low printing and we love it. If some device could achieve 300dpi and have larger screen A4 size preferably with A5 being minimum that would be awesome. There are few device on market Remarkable and Sony with 10 and 13.3 inch screen but they cost still an arm and a leg. Although they shifted concept more toward notebook/sketchbook I have no problem with that but e-book support is next to nothing PDF only if I remember well. I am old and I like to use "pen" on "paper". I will look about other device mentioned. Aura H2O did caught my eye once to be honest.
Now I hope you can see my points more clearly. I find this discussion fruitful. Even if we do nothing we at least have fresh input from others to tickle little gray cells.
As far as upgrades go, upgrading to anything less than Lollipop (5.0) is pretty pointless.
That's already five years old as it is.
As bloat is a given, you're always going to need more memory and a faster processor.
If you want to learn about Linux a Raspberry Pi is certainly an economical solution.
For ~$15 you can get a Raspberry Pi ZeroW.
Android *nix deviates a lot from Linux but mostly in system and startup issues.
You can cross-compile C programs on your Windows box using the the Android NDK and run them in the command line on your Nook.
You won't have direct access to the screen unless you want to write to /dev/graphics/fb0 yourself.
If you don't want the Android layer running at that time you can just turn it on and off with "stop" and "start".
You might try to get into writing regular Java (or Kotlin, but don't get me going on that) applications.
There is something to be said for having your own app that runs on both your phone and your Nook.
There's a lot of convenience in having whatever you're looking for on whatever device you have at the moment.
I always though that backlights were pointless, but I've learned to love them.
If you have copier paper a lot of it is 92% reflective.
The white in eInk is a lot grayer than that.
I always keep my backlight on, but only to the point that it makes up for the gray tint to make it white.
Looking at it you really don't get the impression that it is glowing.
I have stumbled on web page of a project to port some 4+ Android version on NST which pretty much surprised me. Can not remember was it ICS or JB and hell Kitkat would be awesome for device that old. I believe that for that they must abandon B&N stuff almost completely unless they somehow ported it back from Glow versions? And counting in size expected I bet that they reformatted partitions on the device to make it happen. Now will that stick together or fall apart spontaneously is another question. I remember that on xda that somewhere was a thread about disabling OTA from B&N that could brake such upgrade but since they no longer support NST we should not worry about this. I wonder why did you said Lollipop as minimum choice? Do you consider it as minimum acceptable Android version or maximum that NST could possibly run?
As far as Linux go nah I will just play with old laptop instead. Although I caught myself looking to buy present for nephews in electronic realm. Arduino or Pie? aye there is the rub...
I didn't program anything reasonable for a long time. Therefore I am more than rusty in that field. Although I believesome Python or lua script I could manage if enough effort is put on my side.Julia look to me as a programming language that shows some promise to the future from old man perspective. Certainly none of those are useful to porting anything to Android and NST. For the moment I cut my appetite back and will look into how I can backup NST and make virtual image out of it to run it in Virtual box. There I hope to try to learn how things work on Android an play/apply changes in the sand boxed environment. If I break something no harm done just delete virtual drive and start again. I don't want to brick my only NST. Maybe I should buy used one for latter to as I see lot of UK used one have hit the market after B&N closed in UK.
I hate Java from reasons unwilling to disclose or as you said let's not start about that. Idea behind it is fine. Sadly it is lot to be desired on the implementation side. I totally understand that Java might give some benefits especially if we count in the already existing base of programs written on Java. Have a friend who learn and use Java but I personally never manage to overcome my personal detest of it.
Regarding backlight... I never saw Glow. Is there true backlight in like shining through panel? Or did they made something in line of those book lights for real books? I think that could work for capacitive screen but not so much so for IR like NST have. That should not glow much I think and could be regulated in illumination and colour.
The NST has 256M RAM, the Glow2/3 has 512M, the Glow4 has 1G, my $40 phone has 2G.
The $60 Kobo I have has only 256M, but it just runs Linux.
I couldn't be bothered to update my NST even if you handed me an image on a platter.
ebay has the Glow4 (open box) for $130.
I wouldn't even try to update that to a newer version, too much work.
Since this thread started the Boox Poke3 6" reader has come out.
It has Android 10, 8 CPUs, 2G RAM, Bluetooth and lists for $190.
That's a heck of a lot more of a device than the Glow3 for $120.
It also doesn't have the ugly styling of the Poke2.
https://www.boox.com/poke3/
Hmm, currently not in the US warehouse.
I'm a big fan of Arduino and RPi, but it gets complicated.
An adult friend bought an Arduino, hooked up an LCD and a thermometer, loaded the sketch.
It worked. They got bored. End of the story.
I don't know what the solution is. You make it too easy, they get bored. You make it too hard, they get frustrated.
I'm not a fan of the whole Arduino infrastructure and the Processing language. I prefer just AVR8. But I am "old skool".
I use RPi a lot, but I've only seen the desktop version about once.
I use headless and also digital signage without X Windows or desktop.
The Glow2 has single color edge lit backlight, The Glow3/4 uses dual color (blending) edge lit backlight.
If you hold them sighting down the face of the screen at a very low angle you can tell there are discreet LEDs.
(It's nothing you could ever see in normal usage.)
I checked Boox first time you mentioned it. Impressive progress I must say. Paradox is that as I understand newer Android versions are more optimized to be run even on underpowered devices but I agree that NST is both old and underpowered. Still even you mentioned that Kobo has same low memory but still running successfully Linux only environment. That speaks a lot in Linux favor regarding resource management and use. Yes there are slim chances someone cook something up for NST and even then people will just buy new device that is several times better. You wouldn't believe but B&N readers are hard to find here. I had to ask a friend to bring me the one from Middle East because it was available there so go figure.
Thanks for the opinion about Arduino vs RPi. I think you might be right. Kids nowadays will be interested to program more than to assemble something and experiment. Its a shame because I think they could learn more about physics by fiddling with Arduino.
Thanks for explaining me or rather confirming how light on Glow device is made. I am curious how they sorted out possible interference of lighting with IR touchscreen but I guess they somehow used non overlapping LEDs for those two separate things or passthrough IR only filters on IR detector side. In theory even some simple software calibration could work for that but I am also an "old skool" and wouldn't choose that as my way had I have gotten the task to build something of this kind. I might rig me some "lights" for old fashioned hardcopy books. Not that I can't buy it online but I want to engage my fingers a little.
If you haven't played with it yet, the Touch-1.0.apk (in the sig) works on the NST and will show you how/where the beams of IR go.
It can be helpful to see where dirt or distortion of the bezel is making it difficult for touches to be registered correctly.
Since the party seems to be going into a topic of what next best e-reader should be maybe we could exchange opinions about certain things available as in are they necessary or good enough at this moment. For example Boox is offering a model that can show ebooks as black and white or I presume as 4 color "print". As B&W it present it as 300dpi which is on par with printed books and man can not ask for more in my opinion. Alas when it present 4 color "print" it is meager 100dpi that could mean even NST just blows it out of scene. So my vote on color e-reader is still no. If it ever reach 150dpi it will become a thing to consider but right now it is still under acceptable performance from mine point of view.
Do you consider making notes on a device important? I am asking because I have mentioned ReMarkable and Sony DPT (which is gone now). Sony again made good device only to withdraw from the market at the end. While I understand that in the e-reader case as Amazon blow them out securing the better library this time I am afraid it is Sony's own fault. There exist few rebranded models of hardware Sony used with seemingly better software Fujitsu Quadreno and Mooink Pro. Mooink support PDF, epub, docs and text and offers a software for file conversion and DRM management. There are few annoying things. Almost none have microSD card option now. It is replaced with cloud storage or printing. And I personally like having pen but I find being robbed when they sell it separately and with replaceable tips because they made those to wear out. Cost is way to high despite larger screen.
I'm not clear on what you mean with "4 color".
The only thing that I can see on the website is a way to save your scribbles to an external file where you can set the color saved (but not viewed) on the device.
If you've ever seen a store white/red/black eInk shelf label update you'll know that that's only useful for things that change once a day.
I don't look too closely at the reader software itself since I'll probably just use my own.
I hate the sort of pictograph selection of small, medium, large font.
What if I want 5% larger than medium?
There's always a bit of conflict between SD card and waterproof.
I figure 32 GB fixed storage is large enough for me.
There's always a big tossup what is the correct mix of devices, phone, ereader, tablet, tablet with pen, tablet with keyboard, laptop, desktop?
I've never owned a personal laptop, never seen the sense (for me).
Rarely do I use a tablet or a phone with a BT keyboard when I want to do some sort of bulk inputting or fleshing out an idea or transcribing lyrics.
I kind of like digitizers, but never found a way that the utility exceeds the space they take.
Onyx Boox Poke 2 Color is for example device able to reproduce color. Yet is it worth buying?
Yes I understand your choice to use custom reader software. File support seems to have always been a problem and it just went worse from there.
Yes waterproof device shouldn't have SD card. I have mean more in a sense of having the ability to root, backup and thinker with the device.
SJT75 said:
Onyx Boox Poke 2 Color is for example device able to reproduce color.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The product selection of Onyx or Boox or Onyx Boox has always confused the heck out of me.
Currently on https://www.boox.com/allproducts/ there is no indication of anything color.
Moreover, the "About Us" speaks of "We focus on E Ink ( ePaper) devices only. "
But I do remember seeing something previously on the website that spoke of color.