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So, apparently, it is still not supported and Google has no solution yet.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2275..._details_emerge_the_little_things_add_up.html
This detail, which came out in conversations I had with Google engineers today, explains why the Android file system organization is, well, a mess, and why I’ve had such inconsistent experiences with Android and removable storage across the various Honeycomb tablets I’ve tried (and I’ve tried all of them that are available so far).
“We don’t want to expose the user to file locations,” explained Hiroshi Lockheimer, director of engineering at Google. “How do you manage that as a user? The not-good answer is with the file browser.” Lockheimer says that many of the experiences I’ve seen so far are what individual hardware manufacturers have enabled, as opposed to what Google has provided natively. The good thing is that Lockheimer says Google is looking at ways to do this; but the problem hasn’t been solved yet.
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Is it me or does that say nothing still?
Google says they don't want to give you a file browser / file explorer / file manager.
Fine - there's plenty of third party apps to that on the market - but why not fix the SD card slot support?
Although I agree that some of the structure stuff is a bit of a mess - there's lots of random folders created on the SD card, like .android_secure, .bookmark_thumb etc. that you probably don't want end users seeing.
At least now it's clear that it's Google who has to fix the SD Card issue and not Motorola.
poisike said:
At least now it's clear that it's Google who has to fix the SD Card issue and not Motorola.
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Click to collapse
I honestly didn't read that at all...?
I read that google were working on some sort of file manager, not SD card? am I misreading it? as far as I can see file manager, and SD card are separate issues?
also the transformer, and custom kernels have the sd card slot working, so not sure who is at fault for the xoom
Why is there a difference between the tablet and the phones?
I have access to the SD Card and file system there.
Not like every Windows user on the planet has never seen "My Computer". Organizing files is not some obscure concept that is to high level for users.
From what I can understand:
USB file system means the OS access the usb disk in block level which the app (file browser) will have access to the full path of the file.
The one that is supported by Honeycomb right now is MTP. This is totally different compared to USB. The actual file system is implemented by the device, not by the computer's operating system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Transfer_Protocol
My prediction, this USB thing will be solved by the upcoming ICE CREAM SANDWICH.
Because by then, phone and tablet are merged ... everything which is supported by phone (like SD card) must be supported by tablet.
So, yeah, we must wait till end of this year or early next year (worse case).
Still, it is too long for Motorola with their "promise", no?
@Kcarpenter
Very true - but I think the problem may lie with the Xoom using the MTP instead?
or is that a load of rubbish?
Eitherway, I guess from the Google point of view - they want it simple and try and hide the stuff they don't want n00bs messing with (a bit like Apple hide everything too so all their iOS are n00b proof!)
Also Phones open up to mass storage straight to the card - you don't get access to the internal memory at all. Whereas with the Xoom you would want access to that because there's loads of space there
gogol said:
My prediction, this USB thing will be solved by the upcoming ICE CREAM SANDWICH.
Because by then, phone and tablet are merged ... everything which is supported by phone (like SD card) must be supported by tablet.
So, yeah, we must wait till end of this year or early next year (worse case).
Still, it is too long for Motorola with their "promise", no?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about just fixing the kernel like timat's - that'd do the same job for now
Still don't understand why they would slack on getting the SD card implemented. They have so much riding on honeycomb success. And the LTE radio needs to get installed too. Time to ramp it up.
I agree they should be able to enable it considering one of our own has already done so with a custom a kernel, I still love my xoom though!
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
mwaychoff said:
I agree they should be able to enable it considering one of our own has already done so with a custom a kernel, I still love my xoom though!
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
agree completely.
and the LTE thing is running on awhile now - didnt someone say that the samsung tab 10.1 might beat Xoom to be the first LTE HC tab if Moto don't buck up?
Who needs google when you have bigrushdog?
Just did the 3.1 update and SD card slot still doesn't work. I thought it would've fixed this.
Yea, I read that article yesterday. It has NOTHING to do with the sdcard support.
Google was explaining why android in general has a fairly chaotic/unintuitive filesystem structure... NOT why they haven't biuld in support for SD.
it was well known this update was not addressing the sd slot. No wjere not one single ppace has google or moto saidnthe sd lotbwil not be active by the deadline they stated. They could give us slot access right now but the issue is as has been aluded to they would either have to give full file sys access or no file access like the phones. For those that will say it doesn't matter give us access. It matters to them as they will be creating huge issues with tech support by the much larger majority of users that would delete things that would kill or hamper the device. I mean even on here you have tons of people that can't follow clear simple directons to flash an update without screwing it up some how. Can you imagine Suzzy home maker or joe the guy who can not figure out how to do a windows update would do with full access. My guess is they will be doing a update with a file manager and permision set so nothing past the sdcard parent folder can be accessed and programs installed will have premissions set to prevent accidental delete without going into the file manger settings to change them to allow change of permisions.
This will solve both the issues and allow both sd card and internal storage access without opening up the core files to tinkering by BDUs
I was considering storing financial and personal information on my phone in the form of files and realized that though the fingerprint scanner is ok to prevent the casual browser from logging into the phone when it is left unaccompanied, a real hacker could easily see whats on there with very little effort.
The Atrix on the face of it looks like a secure phone with the fingerprint reader; however XDA users would know that nothing prevents a thief from entering fastboot and mounting the files and folders to see whats on there. No security app can prevent that.
Using the android built-in option and encrypting the entire sdcard is NOT an option for me at this time. I think its going to slow down the phone operation if the OS files are encrypted and each time it needs to decrypt each and every file and folder. Also it may present issues when testing new ROMs. (And I am dual booting - so my extSD also has a ROM which I would not want to slow down anymore than it already is)
So I searched for methods and apps to encrypt individual files or folders on the Atrix. There are quiet a few in the market and a few are free as well with good reviews. However most -even the ones with the best reviews seem to be just changing the file name and location and not doing real encryption. Also most of these use proprietary algorithms or methods to hide information. A really good app would be one that uses an open source algorithm to encrypt the files and folders - so that the algorithm would be tested and verified as being strong by the world.
Also another requirement was for the ability to frequently sync and update the files on the phone with the PC. The app should have a PC equivalent - that is the file can change on my PC and then I should be able to sync the changed file with the phone in some automated way.
Yet another requirement would be the ability to quickly encrypt and decrypt huge audio or video files. A few good apps could encrypt small audio and video files but not files of size 1GB or more. The apps would either freeze after some time or not encrypt them at all.
Finally I was looking for an option by which the files if I unencrypt them to be available across all apps for the duration of that session - not just in the app that encrypts and decrypts them. So in other words, once I enter the password, the folder should be mounted and available in any app that can browse the phone - until I decide to end or unmount the encrypted store.
I found only Cryptonite doing all of this. Unfortunately Cryptonite does not support Truecrypt containers on Motorola phones. There is some info here on the truecrypt port to android here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=872297&page=7
However I could not get it working with the Atrix. Has anyone had success getting Kryptonite and Truecrypt to work on the Atrix?
Cryptonite also supports Dropbox, but I am not a big fan of storing sensitive info in the cloud - however well known the company is.
Cryptonite does support encFS and I was able to successfully create encFS encrypted folder on my Atrix. I would have liked to have TrueCrypt than encFS, just because I have been reading that Truecrypt has better overall support.
The method I use now for storing and synching encrypted information is:
for the first time only: create the encfs folder on the PC, then mount Atrix as a USB drive and copy the encrypted folder to Atrix.
To sync the encrypted files with the PC, I have to connect the Atrix as USB drive, open EncFS on the PC and select the folder on the Atrix to mount as a drive volume. Also mount the PC encFS folder as another drive. Now sync with the PC using any sync tool like MS SyncToy.
I went through a lot of searching and came to this which I think is good enough at the moment. I would like to hear if anyone else has a better app or method to secure and sync secured files on the Atrix - especially if you have got Truecrypt to somehow work on the Atrix. And I post this so that is anyone else needs this information, it is here.
shenoyh said:
Yet another requirement would be the ability to quickly encrypt and decrypt huge audio or video files. A few good apps could encrypt small audio and video files but not files of size 1GB or more. The apps would either freeze after some time or not encrypt them at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know about the rest of it, I never used any strong security on my phone nor do I intend to, but I think you shouldn't ever expect to be able to "quickly encrypt and decrypt huge files". You're pretty much asking for impossible here. It's like asking to build a full-featured house, furnished and all, in 30 minutes or less. A lot of data will always require a lot of time to process. Heck, even, say, straight plain copying such a file to a computer would take quite a while.
No.
Your not going to get business class security on your atrix, or any current phone most likely.
LUKS manager is the closest thing to legitimate encryption (not gimicky BS) i have seen, but it has some fatal flaws.
Passwords and such are safe and easy to store with KeePass, which is also on windows/linux for syncing and has years of reputation (also free/open source). It isnt for files though.
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Atrix 4G
Rom: Cyanogenmod 7.2 [20120805]
Recov: Romracer 5.0.2.7-atrix5
Radio: N_01.97.00R
Kernel: Faux 1.00ghz-026b1
UV: -0/-25/-50/-100/-150/-225/-300
So im a samsung galaxy note 3 user i love the way my phone is i havent rooted yet cuz didnt feel the need to, but i recently got the update for kitkat that i havent pushed yet as i read that it is terrible, due to the fact it stops you from using your external sd card, now im trying to understand this as it very unclear, so my question is when it says that it doesnt allow third party apps to write on the external sd card, does that mean apps that are not from google play can not be saved on the sd card, or is it all apps third party and google play apps cant be saved on the sd card.
I just want to get a clear view of it so i can decide not to update to kitkat and just keep jellybean on it or update to it. For example i got tons of songs saved on my external sd card i generally use the stock music player, but if i say i download a music player from the google play store will i be able to access my songs off my external sd card if i upgrade to kitkat, also is getting apps off the google play store consider third party apps since its not stock or is third party apps consider apps from other site other then the google play store,
Thank you for assisting me in this just want to know whats, as i rarely dont download apps i just use my phone for business and personal like videos and music and making word docs,
This should be in the Q&A section
portebr3 said:
when it says that it doesnt allow third party apps to write on the external sd card, does that mean apps that are not from google play can not be saved on the sd card, or is it all apps third party and google play apps cant be saved on the sd card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It means any apps that Samsung hasn't pre installed. That includes apps from Play Store.
portebr3 said:
For example i got tons of songs saved on my external sd card i generally use the stock music player, but if i say i download a music player from the google play store will i be able to access my songs off my external sd card
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You will need to duplicate the music into that apps folder or it won't be able to access the music
portebr3 said:
if i upgrade to kitkat, also is getting apps off the google play store consider third party apps since its not stock or is third party apps consider apps from other site other then the google play store
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are also third party apps as I said above.
And yes, this is a major annoyance but it isn't Samsungs fault. Google changed how sd cards work in 4.4 and later Android versions.
The Kitkat SD Card restriction can be explain in simple like this :
Global Read, Restricted Write ( for 3rd party apss).
Meaning, you can use any apps (stock / 3rd party) to read anything on your SD Card, BUT you will need Stock App from Samsung or using Root for Global Write privilege or use 3rd party apps for Restricted Write (only in its own folder).
You can store Music from your PC via USB to your SD Card (Global Read & Write from USB), and then you can use any phone apps (stock/3rd party) to play (read) the music as it will be considered as only reading not writing.
Examples
nlatifolia said:
The Kitkat SD Card restriction can be explain in simple like this :
Global Read, Restricted Write ( for 3rd party apss).
Meaning, you can use any apps (stock / 3rd party) to read anything on your SD Card, BUT you will need Stock App from Samsung or using Root for Global Write privilege or use 3rd party apps for Restricted Write (only in its own folder).
You can store Music from your PC via USB to your SD Card (Global Read & Write from USB), and then you can use any phone apps (stock/3rd party) to play (read) the music as it will be considered as only reading not writing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello thank you guys for the assistance i know this could be a pain so just so that i am clear. If i install a third party app say a third party music player, how would i make a folder for that app to put my music on. Step by step examples would be helpful. I'm not sure if i install the third party app will it automatically create a folder on my SD card and ill have to access the folder thru my pc to add the music to it. Or after installing the app i would manually create a folder for the app on my sd card. thanks in advance im a noob trying to be somebody
portebr3 said:
Hello thank you guys for the assistance i know this could be a pain so just so that i am clear. If i install a third party app say a third party music player, how would i make a folder for that app to put my music on. Step by step examples would be helpful. I'm not sure if i install the third party app will it automatically create a folder on my SD card and ill have to access the folder thru my pc to add the music to it. Or after installing the app i would manually create a folder for the app on my sd card. thanks in advance im a noob trying to be somebody
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All u need to know is already answered in the last paragraph of my answer.
It means app developers need to update one tiny permission for it to work. Most are too lazy to do so, however. That'll change once the S5 is out, since it comes pre-loaded with 4.4.2.... They won't have a choice if they want to keep selling.
Also, N7Player works perfectly fine with music on the MicroSD. They fixed it almost immediately. Stock music player is, like most stock apps, rubbish.
In fact, most popular apps have been updated to write to SD in 4.4. I've not run into any issues since about a week after 4.4 came out.
ShadowLea said:
It means app developers need to update one tiny permission for it to work. Most are too lazy to do so, however. That'll change once the S5 is out, since it comes pre-loaded with 4.4.2.... They won't have a choice if they want to keep selling.
Also, N7Player works perfectly fine with music on the MicroSD. They fixed it almost immediately. Stock music player is, like most stock apps, rubbish.
In fact, most popular apps have been updated to write to SD in 4.4. I've not run into any issues since about a week after 4.4 came out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So Shadow are you having any problems with the new update on your note 3, i heard the stock camera is buggy.
Also i used to be able to download paid apps games like gta or need for speed on my phone well thunderbolt before i got the note 3. All i needed to do was put the file they supplied and put in the data folder or somewhere in the android folder i think it was obb folder, so my question is with the new kitkat update will i still be able to put free paid game apps on my note 3 or will the kitkat prevent me from doing so.
portebr3 said:
So Shadow are you having any problems with the new update on your note 3, i heard the stock camera is buggy.
Also i used to be able to download paid apps games like gta or need for speed on my phone well thunderbolt before i got the note 3. All i needed to do was put the file they supplied and put in the data folder or somewhere in the android folder i think it was obb folder, so my question is with the new kitkat update will i still be able to put free paid game apps on my note 3 or will the kitkat prevent me from doing so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I only have about 12 paid apps from Google play (Out of 198) and the rest is from 'alternative sources' (we all know which ones.) Works fine, no issue. KitKat does nothing against it.
As for the stock camera, I've not noticed issues. I rarely use it (Prefer FV5), and when I do I set everything manually (I'm a photographer, so I can't stand pre-determined settings and filters). So whatever issues others have I probably bypass.
ShadowLea said:
I only have about 12 apps from Google play (Out of 198) and the rest is from 'alternative sources' (we all know which ones.) Works fine, no issue. KitKat does nothing against it.
As for the stock camera, I've not noticed issues. I rarely use it (Prefer FV5), and when I do I set everything manually (I'm a photographer, so I can't stand pre-determined settings and filters). So whatever issues others have I probably bypass.
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Click to collapse
Ok whoa 198 apps damn i never even reach 10 apps lol but thats amazing, so shadow what would u suggest u think i should take the update or not take the update, I dont think ill be rooting as i heard the knox app will alert my carrier Eastlink that i rooted and void my warranty but thinkin i about it for the future.
portebr3 said:
Ok whoa 198 apps damn i never even reach 10 apps lol but thats amazing, so shadow what would u suggest u think i should take the update or not take the update, I dont think ill be rooting as i heard the knox app will alert my carrier Eastlink that i rooted and void my warranty but thinkin i about it for the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rooting will trip the knox fuse permanently, this means you won't be able to get warranty, or use knox on your device forever. (a very long time), it won't "alert" your carrier by itself but they will check the counter in download mode and know if you need warranty.
I'm on Kitkat and don't see any issues, camera works perfectly and I use it very, very regularly so I'm sure.
Not sure about the SD Card stuff, I haven't encountered a situation where something didn't work on that department so idk.
It's Google's fault (the SD Card) btw.
I would recommend updating as always, but be aware that you can not downgrade.
I came across an article about the SD permissions setup in 4.4 and there is an app available on Play Store that will restore SD card functionality (need to be rooted of course):
https://play.google.com/store/apps/...d&utm_medium=WidgetWeb&utm_campaign=Playboard
zedman169 said:
I came across an article about the SD permissions setup in 4.4 and there is an app available on Play Store that will restore SD card functionality (need to be rooted of course):
https://play.google.com/store/apps/...d&utm_medium=WidgetWeb&utm_campaign=Playboard
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have root you can even "fix" the sd permissions with a terminal emulator app; there's a thread somewhere here about it.
portebr3 said:
Ok whoa 198 apps damn i never even reach 10 apps lol but thats amazing, so shadow what would u suggest u think i should take the update or not take the update, I dont think ill be rooting as i heard the knox app will alert my carrier Eastlink that i rooted and void my warranty but thinkin i about it for the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
KNOX the app and KNOX the eFuse have nothing to do with eachother. (except that KNOX app won't work if you trip the fuse). It won't alert your carrier. It'll just set a flag in your device saying you tripped it, and they check that if you try to claim a warranty issue.
Most of the apps I use haven't got an issue with the SD anymore, with a few exceptions like the OfficeSuitePro and Kingsoft (annoying..). Since I keep my internal memory clear of personal data, all the apps are installed on the internal memory and don't require the MicroSD. I move any files it saved on the internal memory to the SD myself through ES File Explorer. Easier than rooting. (I own two MicroSD's 64GB, so I can swap them out when I need to. One is a secondary SD with purely films and tv shows and comics, in case I get stranded on public transport again).
In all honesty, I rather regretted updating. Mine worked flawlessly on 4.3, but I updated out of curiosity (And because 4.4 has RAW compatibility), and got a massive battery drain for killing the proverbial cat in return.
Consequential factory reset rendered my Helium backup MIA (Had to reinstall each app, back them up and manually replace the backup files with the old ones in windows, then restoring), which took about 12 hours.
Got the Mediaserver bug which I never had. More or less fixed it, but it wakelocked my phone from 100 to 0 in 5 hours flat last night again. Gone now, but it'll be back..
So you should really just ask: "Does mine work without issue on 4.3?" "Yes?" "Then stick with it."
The secret to modifying files on the SD card is in theMediaStore*class. It's a*Content Provider*with access to the database built by the Media Scanner. This is mostly useful to apps like the gallery and music players, but anything that wants to see locally stored images, audio, or video will probably use it.
We’re really interested in a child class calledMediaStore.Files. Its job is to give links (URIs) to apps so they can query the database for files on a specific storage device. Through this mechanism, developers can get a specially crafted link that can be used to open a file with write access.
It seems that this method works because the links actually call on the Media Store to open and edit files. Since the Media Store runs with system privileges, it is free to make changes on external storage devices. In essence, apps are able to masquerade as a system service for the purpose of writing to the SD card.
Total Commander*appears to be the first*to have discovered*and implemented this workaround. There are still a few known bugs and some devices, like the HTC One M8 with its /sdcard2 mount point, aren’t supported yet, but it’s almost completely working on the Note 3. While the code has been in Total Commander for quite some time, a*recently posted beta*cleaned up several bugs and makes it the best implementation we've seen.
Source: http://www.androidpolice.com/2014/0...ng-to-the-sd-card-on-kitkat-but-for-how-long/
Check out "Total Commander - file manager" - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ghisler.android.TotalCommander
I expect this will be too quickly fixed to get excited about.
What it needs is for Google to add a permission, even with loads of warnings and confirmations, to allow us to make our own choices - and allow the use of file managers and other apps that need access to the whole memory card.
I'm willing to take the risk Google!
But, this is Sony, so even if Mr. Google fixes it, it'll be sometime in 2015 before that appears on a Z1, if ever.
Sent from my SGP512 using Tapatalk
Why does it seem that with every iteration of Android, we have to revisit workarounds to get 3rd party apps the ability to read/write to external storage? What is the point of having up to 200GB of storage for only native apps to use? I'm not even talking about Adoptive Storage, which is an entirely other ridiculousness. A lot of the apps I use have been fortunately been updated to explicitly ask for permission from the OS, but is there a way to just tell Android to give it up to all apps? Particularly those apps that are slow/no to update?
-Thanks
P.S. I fully anticipate needing to revisit this nonsense with Android N
The big issue with adoptable storage and running apps from the SD card is speed. This is why Samsung and LG both left it out. If you use an SD card for adoptable storage the whole system will slow down. Then people complain of long startup times for apps. Not realizing that the issue isn't from Android or the phone but from the SD card. If you want to load apps to the SD card you can. But the trade off is slow load times for those apps.
arsmithsr said:
The big issue with adoptable storage and running apps from the SD card is speed. This is why Samsung and LG both left it out. If you use an SD card for adoptable storage the whole system will slow down. Then people complain of long startup times for apps. Not realizing that the issue isn't from Android or the phone but from the SD card. If you want to load apps to the SD card you can. But the trade off is slow load times for those apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just speaking for myself, I bought the 64gig extreme and moved all apps that would let me including games. Now if I reboot it takes forever to load up everything. But once everything is loaded and it settles down, I only notice a extremely small lag. Barely noticeable. I think your card read/write has everything to do with it. My racing games play flawless.
Granted you know and can tell and you know you did it. Most wouldn't and then would complain of slow speeds. They would also throw a cheap card in there and then wonder why the phone was so slow. I can see why Manufacturers would not put that functionality in there. I work in IT and see these type of things all the time.
I can understand (and live with) the limitation for adoptable storage. However, I do not understand why 3rd party apps (most of them) cannot even write data to sd card while still installed in the internal memory? Be it editing/saving pictures, saving backups, etc. Some applications can workaround it by opening a dialog where you select the sd card and the app is granted a write access to the selected folder on the card. Bot most other apps cannot do that and then fail on writing data there (some of them fail even on reading)
Anyone knows why this stupid idea was implemented and how to work-around it?
Vitore1 said:
I can understand (and live with) the limitation for adoptable storage. However, I do not understand why 3rd party apps (most of them) cannot even write data to sd card while still installed in the internal memory? Be it editing/saving pictures, saving backups, etc. Some applications can workaround it by opening a dialog where you select the sd card and the app is granted a write access to the selected folder on the card. Bot most other apps cannot do that and then fail on writing data there (some of them fail even on reading)
Anyone knows why this stupid idea was implemented and how to work-around it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think I read that it was done for security reasons but it is really a PITA. No solution for that.
Vitore1 said:
I can understand (and live with) the limitation for adoptable storage. However, I do not understand why 3rd party apps (most of them) cannot even write data to sd card while still installed in the internal memory? Be it editing/saving pictures, saving backups, etc. Some applications can workaround it by opening a dialog where you select the sd card and the app is granted a write access to the selected folder on the card. Bot most other apps cannot do that and then fail on writing data there (some of them fail even on reading)
Anyone knows why this stupid idea was implemented and how to work-around it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Security, only say around it is for the app developers to update their apps.
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