Database Users

Why are people asking the same questions?

Erm, almost all of the topics on the first few pages have been asked and answered already very recently.
Maybe if when you clicked 'New thread' a dialog asking "Would you like to search the forums for the answer first?" popped up, people would actually search and add to existing threads. Maybe
Or if there was a rating system where users could click 'this has been asked and answered before'

I totally agree, I found this forum like many other XDA noobs as it is the most active community discussing the X1. however even I instantly recognised that this is not the place for "how do I do this?" questions. The Xperia has definately introduced a whole new generation of users (including myself) to PDAs and indeed to Windows mobile which in turn creates a wave of previously mentioned questions. All this stuff which can be learned by reading the manual, googling, or even calling customer support should not be asked in a developer forum and is only slowing down the progress of the people in the scene which really matter. I would be very happy to abide by rules such as junior members not allowed to create new threads, or even (as mentioned) a MASSIVE notice when creating a new thread that doesnt let you post until you have run a search. Anyone used OZGrid forums for Excel/Office programming help? thats exactly what they do there, and if you post a stupid question thats already been answered - two week ban. I am very happy to abide by these rules for a more productive community - my 2p

why do i have to read your complaints? are your complaints new? Do a search, im sure youll see some complaints like yours.

rough... so rough...
Some of us still ask questions that are specific to the device, and I believe that still having one repository for XPeria related stuff isn't a bad thing, even if it's repetitive.
If we could update the Wiki it would probably be better (ahem - I couldn't create a page for some reason?)

billybobjones said:
why do i have to read your complaints? are your complaints new? Do a search, im sure youll see some complaints like yours.
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lol hats off to you

billybobjones said:
why do i have to read your complaints? are your complaints new? Do a search, im sure youll see some complaints like yours.
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What are you talking about? There are no other threads about this in this forum. I always search - why else would it annoy me that others don't. I suppose you didn't when you made that comment.
Edit: It also annoys me when people fill up the forums with useless comments. Happens all over the net, but serves no purpose. And, BillyBobJones, you chose to read my complaint, when you clicked on the very descriptive, unique, thread title. Seems you haven't made any valid poitns at all then. Were you just looking to complain? Are you bored, or do you just enjoy it? Shu.

perhaps sometimes searches may not bring out exact solutions? folks lets be a little nicer ya?

and you chose to read repetitive threads. Whats your point? I bet theres many on this whole site. in fact, i bet i can find comments like yours where people are instructed to use the search..
http://www.google.com/cse?cx=000825...=use+the+search&cof=FORID:0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
i dont see how this thread is helping anyone.

A noobs fustration in using this forum...

Okay I have been on this forum for a few months now and I still consider my self a noob it seems as though that magical search feature that everyone demands us noobs use is not too noob friendly and to prove this I documented my frustration when trying to get this nandroid thingy to work.
Supposed noob thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3816278&postcount=3
EDIT: I am 99.9% sure this will work with a PVT board. I am not sure about DVT BUT if you are willing to risk bricking your G1 to find out, that would be great Reboot in fastboot and make sure it says "DREA100 PVT"
First of all what the hell is a PVT board? And what the hell is fastboot??? UHh wait I have to do another search on this stupid PVT board and this stupid fastboot. Searching…..
Searched for fastboot here is what came up:
http://www.google.com/cse?cx=000825...boot+&sa=Search&cof=FORID:0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
After clicking several search results there is not one single post that defines exactly what fastboot is or specifically what it does.
Searching for PVT Board……
And the results were: http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&...G=Search&cx=000825531964825142534:cqr2sjirilw
Not one single related post that clearly states what a PVT Board really is. Okay that’s out the window, maybe I can figure it out by reading how people are talking about it. Fun stuff. Unable to decypther what the hell people are talking about, NEXT search!
Okay now I want to find out what the hell a nandroid backup is.
Searching Nandroid…
Wow First success!! First result takes me to this post: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=459830
Oh no not again more words to search!!
Okay I see two strange words I do not know Busybox (wtf?) and adbd.
Searching Busybox….
http://www.google.com/cse?cx=000825...sybox&sa=Search&cof=FORID:0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
Results are not clear, just links me to some posts that have some RC30 release (is the RC30 busybox? That is still not clear. Other results refer to it as some kind of back up tool, I thought the nandroid was a backup tool? SO that goes out the door Next search adbd….
Searching adbd..... Nothing that directly defines what exactly adbd is, all I got was people talking about it but never directly referencing exactly what it is ( ex: “need some questions answered about adbd and debuggerd Dream android development.” Or “restarting adbd as root”) Maybe it stands for a dumb big day? God knows.
Okay back to the original Nandroid post because its really important that a noob does a back up just incase right?………
I decided to go ahead and proceed without knowing what those two words were (of course I’ll get yelled at by everyone for not searching if I make a post asking what they meant so no point in posting).
Oh this is probably my favorite part of the post!!!
LOL the easy part!!!-* How to use this (the easy part)
And below it is this sentence:
“Just boot your phone in recovery mode with the correct recovery.img (one that has adb shell as root + busybox installed with symlinks to tar, md5sum etc) and connect it to your pc/laptop/server. Then run the nandroid.sh script. If something is wrong or missing, it will tell you. “
So lets break down this sentince (as a noob) line by line.
1st line: Just boot your phone in recovery mode with the correct recovery.img
Recovery mode? I think that is the pressing of the HOME+END key or is it the END+CAM keys? Which do you mean????? My guess is the HOME+END.
2nd line: (one that has adb shell as root + busybox installed with symlinks to tar, md5sum etc) WOA dude what planet you on?!! This entire line makes no freakin sense to me. And I do not think searching will help us there. “one that has adb shell as root” WTF is the one that has adb shell???? And wtf is adb??? And symlinks to tar? Is that encrypted language for his secret lover to find him? Geez how is anyone supposed to learn by searching stuff like this?? Okay at this point im just about to give up on this whole damn back up and just live without it, next line….
3rd line: Then run the nandroid.sh script. If something is wrong or missing, it will tell you.
Umm HOW? How do I run the nandroid.sh script and on WHAT operating system? Mac, Windows, Linux??? The only thing wrong or missing is proper Instructions and good English course!!!
If you are going to post a tutorial please don’t assume that everyone knows what your talking about and skip over steps that you think are elementary when in-fact you will discover that sometimes not everyone knows what you are talking about.
BTW I found this tutorial here (where supposedly 95% of my questions are answered….. umm sure): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=519523
Isnt this article supposedly posted to be in the pre-reading material before a noob posts questions?
This is not the only article that I found not to be noob friendly, in-fact I found very little articles that were noob friendly, here is yet another thread that I found to be rediculy confusing: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=512453
When I first went to this thread (before knowing what WIPE meant) I was like WTF is this guy crazy. Then he goes on to talk about some crazy loop (which he does not state how or where you get this mysterious loop) then he goes and pasts some code that god knows where the hell your supposed to paste it, on the phone in the command prompt or is it only in the mac????
There are soo many more threads like the ones above. It is no wonder why noobs post the same questions over and over again, its because people assume that everyone else knows what their talking about and skip what they think are useless 2 or 3 steps, well I got news for you buddy, those silly 2 or 3 steps are probably the most important steps to beginner. I am still fairly new to this forum and still am having trouble figuring out what people are talking about. I just wish that there were some kind of rules or guidelines when writing instructions or how-to guides. The ONLY guide on this entire forum that I found to be clearly written and total noob proof is this thread here:http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=502010 Everyone should take a few pointers from this person that wrote that thread, although he never stated the purpose of it at the start but that’s minor.
Sorry if I offended anyone but this is the ugly truth for us noobs, it really is hard when your first starting out and some one bashes you for asking a question that’s been asked before or the noob didn’t search. Well the search feature is not exactly that great and you almost always do not find the answer to that one noob question. And yes I am very grateful for all these great hacks and I am just posting this just out of frustration from having to constantly search and after having spent hours searching and searching. I am almost certain that I am not the only noob with this problem.
My next journey is Themes my G1 phone (God help me).
Thanks,
Abe

well the essential problem is that there will always be more noobs than not...no matter how many tutorials and guides that are posted it still will not be enough for some noobs...i did not know what i was doing myself but you first you have to understand what you are reading. so after a while after reading and searching the internet i understand what i am doing and am continuing to learn...this place was not meant to be a place for exacting directions and tutorials (ala development for Dummies)...
And i do not mean anything as an insult...i am just trying to explain that this is not an organized affair with a specific hierarchy, it is a community of developers experimenting and passing that knowledge off to others in the community.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=519523
that link is from the first or second thread on the development section...reading through those will give you a lot of the answers your looking for....
and to be honest if you do not have a clue as to what the stuff your reading is then research the internet...otherwise you definitely should not attempt any of this stuff.

All I will say Is I managed to root my phone by reading multiple threads.
I actually started reading threads before I got my phone . It was confusing but thats why I kept reading . If i didnt understand something I would read over and over again. As far as finding out what busybox was I used regular old google search for that . Heres what i found based on that search.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BusyBox.
I have learned to not soley rely on the in forum search because it doesnt always seem that helpful. I think overall what the vets what is for the "noobs" to help themselves first before having someone hold their hand.

It is pretty ironic that you bought a phone featuring Google search and now want to hack it, and instead of taking time to actually learn searching techniques you write a page long rant on your incapability to do some simple research. If you cannot figure out what some of these basic terms mean, then you shouldn't be hacking your phone in the first place.
Also, what in the hell are you talking about? You say that we are asking you to search first, hello? You only have ONE post in our community, you haven't asked us ANYTHING.
Honestly, this forum is already very organized. Granted, you are a noob, but really, it isn't all that difficult. If there is something you just really can't figure out, ask it now, I would be happy to answer it for you.

SolemnWishing said:
It is pretty ironic that you bought a phone featuring Google search and now want to hack it, and instead of taking time to actually learn searching techniques you write a page long rant on your incapability to do some simple research. If you cannot figure out what some of these basic terms mean, then you shouldn't be hacking your phone in the first place.
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Take it easy, man. What's basic for one person may be quantum theory for another. Everyone isn't the same-we all perceive and learn differently. The noobs are tired of senior members telling them to search, and the senior members are tired of noobs asking redundant questions.
Also, what in the hell are you talking about? You say that we are asking you to search first, hello? You only have ONE post in our community, you haven't asked us ANYTHING.
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I think he means other noobs have been told to search when asking a question...
Anyway, OP:
the forums are huge and contain a boatload of information. If you don't understand a tutorial or certain terms, ASK. PM the OP of the tutorial or someone in the thread that sounds like they know what they are saying. Follow devs on twitter, and read extensively. Get involved.
You have to understand that there have been hundreds of noobs that only come here to ask "OMG HOW DO I ROOT??" without wanting to understand ANY underlying details. They get caught in a bootloop, get errors, or brick their phone because they don't follow directions and they want to hold devs responsible.
These people want the easy way out, so don't be surprised if senior members and devs here are hesitant in replying to a thread that has been started countless times before. Also, every one here has a life (almost everyone ), so they may not always be available 24/7 to answer unimportant (to them) questions.

I've been with this forum for little over a year now and search function may not be the best but does help a lot. I've started out with the dash, mda, tilt and now the g1. i've just been recently been posting because everything everyone does here is great. I still consider myself a noob and still learning. Ranting like this doesn't really help, spoon feeding noobs gets tiresome and i can see why the seniors gets frustrated. All you need is the patients to read thru the posts and not get blown away with all the lingo and information overload that gets yourself more confused.
This is a community built by the community no one expects to get payed for helping out, so be thankful for what this forum bring. [/rant]

I don't see whats hard about this forum.
I just followed the guides and I was set.
This is a DEVELOPER forum, so I expect it will be a little difficult to use

You don't take physics before taking elementary school math.
That's the way I look at.
But I partially share your thoughts.
I am the first to agree that a search button or Google are your best friends.
What makes a successful search, though, is your choice or keywords or phrases. And I've run into those times that had I known the proper combination of terms to use (one's that would weed-out the bizillion of results that don't relate), I would have easily found the proper answer. I've gotten buried in search results that lead to endless threads only to find out that the Google search I did for "Android Bluetooth Cupcake" might have been better had I narrowed it further with "Android Bluetooth +"File Transfer" +application". That was probably a poor example, but you know what I mean. Searching for broad and common terms usually turns up useless results, we give up in disgust, and that's when some of the redundant posts get made. I also continue to have trouble decided whether a post belongs in the "Dream" forum or the developer forum. And we won't even go into whether they belong in the developer forum, app forum or theme forum. To me, they all cross similar boundaries at times.
There are lots of other forums that are intended for end-users with technical questions. They break things down in easier to understand terms (at least for me). Most of them link to XDA for the downloads, but they offer support on their own forums. I frequent XDA the most, but I still haunt the ubber-newbie sites as well. I still learn from them.
One last thing... It's been said that the internet is akind to the wild, wild west. Forums and mailing lists are usually the worst. If there wasn't some type of moderation/control over XDA, there would be telling how deep we would have to wade to find one meaningful post. I'm as guilty as the next person of wanting immediate answers when I think I've ruined a $400 phone. Luckily, I think the rescue tutorials here are fairly good at outlining the needed steps. No, they may not explain what's happening with each step along the way... but they do give you the necessary steps to get you out a bind. If you'll remain calm, follow the steps, not expect your hand to be held during the process, and only resort to asking for help when all else fails, you'll probably get your phone working the way you want it AND learn along the way. It's the equivalent of junior high vs a college or university. Once you make a conscious choice to go beyond what's required, you're expected to do a lot of the work yourself without the teacher constantly having to offer a refresher course on the basics.
Just my opinion.

Damn double post

Unpolite

Why are some answers rude . If a person posts without giving it much fore thought and an answer appears to be self evident what do you gain by calling them stupid or giving a "Snotty" answer. In my opinion the person make the rude comments are showing there own stupidity. If a person makes an obvious error you can politely bring it to there attention without name calling.

I think the biggest problem here in xda is people dont search.. People ask questions that have been asked loads of times.

What a stupid question!!!
How dare you clog up the boards with this rubbish!!!
Just kidding mate
Its like my dear old mum used to say...
"Some people are just dicks"
Sent From My Toaster Using A Tin Can And Some String

BTW it's "impolite"

I think I'll vent a little here, if you don't mind..
.. but as Shum97 said, people don't search. The forum search may not be up to scratch or hard to navigate for new visitors, but it is there. Maybe having an even bigger and glaring button SEARCH would help leviate some of the [Q]this-[Q]that topics which don't get past the 5 post stage.
Another way of searching is to use Google and add "xda" into your search query. Try searching up "xda unpolite hd2" and see if you can get back to this thread (not directed at you OP).
Now a major point I think is worth mentioning:
Notice the transition of Apple iPods and iPhones from a somewhat unknown in the early 2004-05's to a global sensation beyond? Also notice an increase in "iPhone is da best ur fone cnt beat it ha!" and / or "ZOMG sum1 help me wif my prob plueeeeeeze". Once devices start becoming popular beyond the moderate / advanced computer-literate customers it starts becoming a nightmare to browse any useful comments amongst the sea of flamers and fanboys.
I think that's what is happening to the HD2. Due to its massive screen (seems size is what average joes think about) and the moderate but decent exposure by xda users, this phone in particular by HTC has begun to gain in popularity. Likewise, the phenomenon with the increase in popularity (leads to) the increase in irritating posts on this forum (or any forum really).
How to solve this?
Answering much of the questions in the Questions forum could help stem the overflow of [Q] or even [Req] topics into other forums. The reason why they are spilling over is nobody wants to answer endless questions with virtually no information and endless repetition. How to deal with that? I don't know..
And believe it or not, how you construct and word your questions can be determinate of your response time and how engaged the responder is to your query.
Questions like this..
Hey all, I am having problems with the bluetooth settings on my international HD2 (stock WWE 1.61). When connecting to my Sony Ericsson HSH925, the prompt mentions driver x missing. After browsing through some other topics, there seems to be a conflict between program x and y which causes this driver to be erased. I have tried the drivers from the other topics but they were all for ROMs before 1.61. Would anyone have a fix for this or would we have to wait for HTC to release an updated driver?
.. will most likely get answered and stay on track.
Questions like this..
HLP I CNT CONNECT MY BT HEADSET 2 MY HD2 I tried connecting thru da menu but it not work. Srry if its been asked b4 srry if its been asked b4 srry if its been asked b4 srry if its been asked b4csrry if its been asked b4 srry if its been asked b4 srry if its been asked b4 srry if its been asked b4 help me PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS *bump* *bump* *bump* *bump* *bump* *bump* *bump* *bump*
.. will most likely be ignored.
The other possibility (and this is to the extreme, but not necessarily impossible), is that advanced users / developers / testers will move off to another site, leaving this forum to wash away in endless never-finished topics. An example I like to compare to is remember (if anyone's old enough) how downloading (by that I mean illegal downloading of pirated material unfortunately), was a sort of niche, a nerdy / geeky past-time who nobody below a Major in IT would understand? Then it slowly become popular over time, and then rose sites such as Kasaa, then LimeWire, then torrent sites. Where next? Because it has become so popular, it has also attracted the flack of anti-piracy regulators (rightly-so) which just never would of happened had it remained secluded and nobody-knew-about-it-basis. I "think" the next big thing would be VPNs and proxys, but you ain't hear nothing from me.
Anyway I hope the forums don't turn out to be what the X1 forums are now (which I was a proud owner of). And to go back to the OP, I guess on behalf of xda to the wider non-tech-savvy community, we aren't angry or unpolite by nature, we are just tired of answered questions and one-line flame comments silluetting out the actual developments and hacking topics that has made the HD2 greater than it ever was.
*going to troll the Questions forum now*

I'm with btyeh on this one.
a big tip is when using google, try typing:
site:xda-developers.com [your search terms here]
i.e.
site:xda-developers.com hd2 unpolite
The top search result should be this topic.
I've been an avid user of these boards for quite a while, and encourage people to help others (as I do), but it doesn't work if people don't bother to try and help themselves first.
You wouldn't get much help if you rang a support line and said "it's broken, fix it"
Its not easy to help someone with so little detail.
What is broken?
How is it broken?
What has happened to it recently/has anything changed?
I've noticed a much larger number of topics that are repeating, and quite frankly, its making me think twice about even looking at the site, let alone bother to take the time to respond to the 4th topic of the same problem on page 1 alone.

If it chaps your "delicates", why answer? Why even look? skip the thread and go on about your day instead of being a complete prick to some stranger.
Sad thing about the internet, is that because it's through the safety of a terminal, people have sacrificed manners and common sense.
If you don't want XDA to become the next youtube-comments site, then learn to not be a search-nazi. The annoying people asking annoying questions will go away or learn to ask the right questions.

btyeh
I really value the time it took to post that. Specially when 9 out of 10 of my post go ignored. I could post something here or in another forum and it would be the same result.
I usually provide a lot of detail and thats because I really want to show that I've done my research. Doing my own research shows to me that I value others time.
I will have to agree that a lot of flames start by the person failing to search.
So now we have a delimma.
Those who arse are chapped by the insane amount of double and tripple post are asked to ignore it and move on. Those who post these topics are asked to do searches and not double post.
No one puts their foot down and says dont flame or your banned. No one puts their foot down and says do a search or be banned.
I know that sounds harsh but I think both needs addressing. The site needs to get under control the amount of first timers who ask questions and dont bother to do a search. The site also needs to put the jerks flamers and a-holes in check also myself included.
I guess my beef is I mostly have to search for these things myself. I think its only fair that someone else have to do the same. Atleast show some effort.
I am making a effort to not to be a jerk to new memebers. I Actually wont answer the thread if i think i am going to be mean.

hazard99 said:
btyeh
I am making a effort to not to be a jerk to new memebers. I Actually wont answer the thread if i think i am going to be mean.
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I think we all make this effort.. but to some dudes.. its just the wrong day.. like i avoided answering this thread because i think its the most whiney ass man on man sex **** i have ever heard in my life to write a thread crying about how someone was/ is inpolite to you or someone else on a forum..
but here i am.
I think its not just the way we answer new folks though but the way the questions are asked...
when there is a thread called
"Question"
regardless what comes when you open it.. the dude deserves to get flamed.. for not even prefacing us with what a question was about.. and wasting time space and bandwidth just to pacify his own simple.. ignorance.
This being said.. a newer person posted a Question the other day and less than 4 hours later was *****ing no one answered him yet... yea i made a smart ass comment about him being a **** for expecting people to answer him in a manner of seconds.. but i also answered him. .and tried my best to help him with his issue..
i guess what im saying.. is as the theoretical knowledgeable portion of this forum we are probably going to flame ignorant questions... but we need to try and answer the questions at the same time..
Yea you might call someone an idiot for asking an idiotic question.. but if you are gonna take the time to flame.. take the time to point them the right direction while your at it.

conantroutman said:
sent from my toaster using a tin can and some string
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two camels in a tiny car!

Because i did my due diligence and search like anyone who's tech savvy enough with an ounce of logic (and if you're not those type, you shouldn't be involved with ROM flashing and should just stick with stock ROM), so I don't see how that gives other people the free pass to post whatever their hearts desire without giving us some background to their problems.
Sure, I've seen threads where people were unsure of their problems but they post a laundry list with background info, pics, ROM version, etc....yet there are others who simply post "HD2 froze...phone wont get past white screen." I'm sorry, but stupidity and lack of awareness are not excuses for you to post whatever you want. What's funny are the people who complain about the "unpolite"ness every week, yet are still as shortsightedness as the people who post without any measurable contents.

greenkonstantinos said:
I have problem with my htc hd 2 rom 19.4 leo . I can't send or recieve e-mails. Can someone help me?
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Just answered this one over in Q&A.
Could have been rude, but that wouldn't help him with his email problem, wouldn't have made him more likely to provide background in the future, only would have made me an asshole.
When he reply's back with the proper background info, I will try my best to help him, and then kindly bring to his attention that in the future he should search twice , then gather the apropriate background info, then post his question.
The old carrot and stick technique usually provides the best results for all.
Plus the reason he didn't post all the background info may be because he has been trying for an hour to get it to work, and may be upset that he is not able to get important emails tomorrow at work.
Being rude to people is an easy way, and easy ways usually don't pay.
There is seldom ever a reason to be unpolite

There's a couple things not mentioned so far that also contribute to the impoliteness:
Often the people who would reply have done so already for another person, and are now fed up seeing the same question.
If you've been around here for as long as some of us, or have been on a device thread since it was new, you've seen the same question asked possibly hundreds of times. How many new threads ask how to flash? Or "HELP! I'VE BRICKED MY PHONE"?
I don't remember ever opening a thread to ask a question, I just know that someone else has already asked it, and it has been answered already, I just gotta find it. Even a lot of googling is quicker than waiting for a reply anyway.
On the other side, there are some things which can be annoying about these responses, that is:
When the answer is buried in a ROM thread, and there is no dedicated thread to the problem.
or
There are more threads about the problem which say "search for 'x'", than there are actual threads with solution 'x', making searching unlikely to give the results you want. Often there is only one small thread, such as the disabling the HTC customisations thread which is only a few pages.
or
The search terms are not obvious (such as the same thread already mentioned) if you don't know the details of the problem, or the answer very well, then it can be hard to know what to search for.

I think compared to other forums ive seen XDA is by far the best almost everybody is really helpfull a few bad apples though just like every forum. But I think everyone needs to be patient to n00bs as we have all been there. I too have been guilty of posting without searching but thats since has changed.
Eitherway you guys on XDA rock

XDA Needs To Be Friendlier

Originally Posted by dude64
I love xda as it is such a great resource and adds and improves upon the functionality the devices for so many users. Thanks to all the people who put in hard work. But, I hate the attitude of the senior members and the more seasoned users towards those of us who are relatively inexperienced. I requested to point me to the relative thread/forum. What do you mean by topic list? Under general or development or this thread itself? Thanks.
I have been on this forum for quit a while and as a SENIOR I also do not like the attitude of some of the people. Not all of us give noobs a hard time. I do think pointing a person in the right direction is OK and also letting them know that reading is fundimental is OK, but I see some members going around and doing nothing but telling people how many times this has already been answered and if they would only take 5 seconds to read. You are correct, some people do need to read some before chiming in, but there is no reason to be an ASS. This is a great resource, but people will shy away if members continue to act this way. This forum was created to help out the users of new devices and a place to develop the hardware and make it better for all, so lets get back to that!

XDA also has rules, here's the very first one.
Search before posting.
Use one of our search functions before posting, whether you have a question or something new to share, it's very likely someone already asked that question or shared that news.
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FloatingFatMan said:
XDA also has rules, here's the very first one.
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I know the rules. I see no problem with you pointing out the rules, but to go trolling the threads and just telling the new guys that this has been already answered does no one any good. You can use a little more tact and still be helpful. Isn't that the main reason for this forum?

dalepl said:
I know the rules. I see no problem with you pointing out the rules, but to go trolling the threads and just telling the new guys that this has been already answered does no one any good. You can use a little more tact and still be helpful. Isn't that the main reason for this forum?
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I do, but after a dozen repetitions of the same question, it DOES become time to tell people to search for themselves.
When I first came here, that's EXACTLY what I did. I took my time, I read the reads, I used search. I didn't ask a SINGLE question until I was sure the answer wasn't already there, and in doing so I learned.
Helping people is fine; changing their diapers for them, isn't.

FloatingFatMan said:
I do, but after a dozen repetitions of the same question, it DOES become time to tell people to search for themselves.
When I first came here, that's EXACTLY what I did. I took my time, I read the reads, I used search. I didn't ask a SINGLE question until I was sure the answer wasn't already there, and in doing so I learned.
Helping people is fine; changing their diapers for them, isn't.
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I do totally agree with you. I am just saying right now, you are coming accross as hostile. Try backing off. I see no problem with telling a noob to search and read first before asking a question, but I see no reason to tell them how dumb they are being on the first question. Now, if they continue, all bets are off. You can do as you want with them.
I really like this site and feel it is a great resource for people. Especially since you can not expect this from the companies, but I really do not want people to not ask a question in fear of getting beratted by someone because they did not read. Point out thier mistake and with any hope, they will comply.

As a fairly new member, but a fairly active one, I gotta say that sometimes the attitude on here reminds me of my local Staples...which is to say pretty ****ty. I know that its a pain to have to answer the same question over and over again, but you can't fault someone for not knowing. Realizing that sometimes you just want to grab someone and shake them, while screaming "just use the damn search feature!" but even so, a little more temperance and a little less condescension would be a good thing.

agree with op
I think thisnis exactly correct.I notice its not always the same person over and over asking things discusses or solved.I have also noticed that the majority of the repeated questions come from those who are not. Great with English.
The truth is its easier to yell and degrade someone then politely just ask them to search.I also believe the post telling someone they are a moron or other not so nice things are more against the rules here then the unnecessary post and adds to the drama.if you don't like it you dont have to answer.
It all comes down to respect everyone deserves it.even the lame people like myself as I have been called on here
I go back to my corner and shup as I should have not posted here to begin with

dalepl said:
.... but I really do not want people to not ask a question in fear of getting beratted by someone because they did not read.
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This is the internet. No matter how nasty you are or how nice you are, the same questions will be asked time and time again. There's nothing anyone can do about it.
It doesn't matter if someone reads the rules or not, it doesn't matter if someone searched or not - if they have a question they'll ask it - regardless.
You can have the answer in bright, bold, flashing letters on the main page and the question will still be asked. See it isn't about whether the answer is available or not, its that every person who asks does so with their own rationale and the belief that 'their question isn't exactly the same' and the answer they want isn't one they've found (even if its the impossible answer).
It's up to the individual whether they answer them, (positively or negatively isn't the point) or walk away.
So what, if some people choose to chew out other people. If that's how they want to interact with the community then so be it. The community will decide if that is acceptable or not and, in time, they'll either stop, or leave because they're frustrated with the none-Utopian forum they thought they could control.

dalepl said:
Originally Posted by dude64
I love xda as it is such a great resource and adds and improves upon the functionality the devices for so many users. Thanks to all the people who put in hard work. But, I hate the attitude of the senior members and the more seasoned users towards those of us who are relatively inexperienced. I requested to point me to the relative thread/forum. What do you mean by topic list? Under general or development or this thread itself? Thanks.
I have been on this forum for quit a while and as a SENIOR I also do not like the attitude of some of the people. Not all of us give noobs a hard time. I do think pointing a person in the right direction is OK and also letting them know that reading is fundimental is OK, but I see some members going around and doing nothing but telling people how many times this has already been answered and if they would only take 5 seconds to read. You are correct, some people do need to read some before chiming in, but there is no reason to be an ASS. This is a great resource, but people will shy away if members continue to act this way. This forum was created to help out the users of new devices and a place to develop the hardware and make it better for all, so lets get back to that!
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+1
Some people are irrationally and intentionally harsh and seem to exist solely to deride others consistently. I too think pointing people in the right direction is a good thing to do, but that's under the assumption that they genuinely didn't know to use the search. Some even mention using the search and still get less than stellar remarks as a response. It's of my opinion that if it's not constructive somehow, don't bother responding. Let someone with a bit more patience either answer or point them to the right place.

I agree with the OP as far as members of the forum go. The forum itself is actually very nice in that it will pop up a list of possible solutions based on your subject line. Whether or not new people or even older members use it is another matter.

it isn't something you can blame on XDA. i have been on the forums for years and while it does happen in every device subforum, The acer iconia section is just bad. I went from HTC tilt to touch HD to 2 X touch HD2 then an inspire and never saw the nastiness to the extent the acer forum has.
People just need to realize questions will always be asked even if the answer is in the post above the question. Instead of adding to the thread length with the go reads or quit being a noob or the has been answered x times, just don't reply to them unless you are willing to help. This way threads are shorter and if you do search you are more likely to find the answer then finding people *****ing about said question.
I think people just need to calm down and quit trying to be moderators, unless of course you are one. I help when i can and have been helped by many people on here. Without help these noobs will always be noobs. With some help they may become the next developer that the community pushes away with the over anxious "when's my next update coming"

I totally agree that people need to just calm down before responding. Answering the question, and TOTALLY reading the question, is far more helpful than responding to just do a search.
P.S. searching on here is VERY vague. The search at the top should default to the forum you are in, not the whole of XDA.

There's a lot of tears flowing here.

People will always be people...
agreed with the OP...
Im a long time member with very few posts, love the forums but prefer to stay away from the people.

wow
The internet tears are flowing...
Asked quite a few stupid questions when I was new, the responses from senior members taught me to solve my problems for myself and not create new threads when my issue had already been solved.
If you cannot handle a little bit of sarcasm when annoying thousands of members with questions that are already clearly answered, perhaps xda is not the place for you.
As for me, I am running CWM and the latest 3.1 thanks to the efforts of this community. I have learned more about Android and have refreshed some basic Linux knowledge, and have converted my cheapo Virgin Mobile Samsung Intercept into a reliable hotspot for my Acer a500.
Instead of getting upset and creating a new thread about how mean everyone is here; perhaps you should take a step back, emotionally distance yourself, learn how to use advanced search (pro tip: you *can* search just for threads about one device, learn to use advanced search) - and realize with the tools the community has provided for you here you are able to do pretty much anything you want with your Acer a500?
Or you can continue down the path of accusing everyone here of being rude. If you have any specific questions about the a500 - I am willing to help, as are many others.
Don't expect anyone to jump to the response if your question had already been answered, however. This community relies on your ability to learn how to use the search function.

I feel like sometimes the
"use search" is an answer to people who doesn't know as well...
A reply as
Use search , you will find : link to post related to
should be a better answer, at least if you waste your time to reply "use search" why not waste time in a complete reply...
It's true that is boring to see same topic, and have to give same reply (but in every weboard a MERGE function exist... moderator and administrator could if they got time of course, merge topics together... don't miss understand me, I do not say moderator and admin do not do good job)
Sometimes also a noob doesn't know how to search properly as well... IT'S A NOOB!
some are lazy, some are not.

I have been on this site for roughly 3 years and I do have to say there has been some increased crankiness. I also would say the amount of members and people with smart phones has increased substantially since then.
Would be cool if you could flag a duplicate topic for review by moderator so they can be easier to identify and merged appropriately

Well I have to say a little something on this.
I noticed the attitude on this forum and I tend to just read and learn.I type very little as I don't really want to draw attention to myself like now.
I am in the computer repair business and have seen this same attitude with customers from my peers.
And although I want to tell some people to leave me alone when they call I still keep civil with them. But I do appreciate all the learning I have gleaned on this forum.

Ya Cant Change Society
+1 to use the search.
However If I do reply to someone who is asking a question which has been answered time and time again.. I will post the search results that relate to the persons Question.
Not searching is probably my #1 Forum Pet peeve. People complain Ohh well there's like a 1000 Different posts on XYZ topic.. Well their wouldn't be if someone would of searched the first time rather than clogging the search pipes with another post of the same question that has been answered several times.
However Times are changing.. Generations are getting Lazier ... And still lots of people are unfamiliar with Forum etiquette.. Or are just wanting a instant answer now.. Not much any one person can do about any of that.
So if you feel sarcasm... Dont like how someone responds.. are not happy with the site / People .. I say to you... Move on... off to google.com with you to search out several other sites similar to this one to get your golden answer. Its the Internet you have the freedom to go elsewhere. but I'll tell you this your never gonna find a "tech" forum where the attitudes are much different.
Although I will admit there are issues here at XDA, they are working on them.. You cant change how people act around here.. Just as the new folks coming in will never use the search or read the rules.. BTW "technically" this entire thread is breaking the rules.. The thread is entirely in the wrong forum. And I hope the Moderator will see this and move it to its appropriate area.
just my 2 cents on it all.. its probably not even worth that.
"You Cant Change society as a whole, but Society can change an individual"

Ill say that one thing people need to take into account is that alot of members don't speak English as their first language. So they might not even know how to correctly search for an answer with the right words, per se.
The rules do say "use English", lol.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App

Respect, decency, and etiquette

I love XDA.
I've been lurking for about a year now in a few different device forums as I contemplated buying a Viewsonic Gtablet, then a Notion Ink, then a Moto Xoom, before finally settling on the Transformer
It seems regardless of platform, there is at least a handful of talented, patient, and damn smart developers making cool things happen, a bunch more tinkerer-by-nature hobbyists trying all the cool stuff the devs put out (and showing their gratitude any way they can), another handful of eager but clueless -- sometimes young, ESL, or whatever -- people asking dumb questions, and finally, the few self-righteous bullies that make every visit to XDA a jarring reminder of how rude people can be.
Moderators (and self-envisioned moderators)...stop being jerks! I understand the importance of keeping threads in their respective categories and of cleaning up duplicate threads and asking people to search before creating another thread, and I appreciate the work you do. But don't say something to someone you wouldn't say to them in person, just because you can't see their face!
Succinctly make your point, shut it down, and move on. Snark is the nails on a chalkboard of personality traits; we'll all benefit and improve ourselves by growing out of it.
A) The search function sucks. It does. The only reason I know where anything is on these forums is because I spent ~20 hours reading every single thread that looked important before I even bought my tablet. I don't think the oft-thrown-in-people's-faces search bar has ever helped me find something I wanted to know. Is that an excuse for people to be too lazy to do some research on their own before making a post filled with questions they could've answered simply by browsing the front page of threads? No. But it is something to consider next time you want to jump down someone's throat for having a specific question about drivers while trying to figure out NVFlash.
B) There are three different deprecated "stock to rom" walkthroughs still stickied! (See the "Eee pad reference thread.") Rooting and rom-ing is an undertaking, and people are willing and want to learn/teach themselves, but don't keep three contradicting textbooks on the shelf and then get pissy when people don't know whether the current "best practice" is this or that. If you want to keep the house clean of annoying re-post questions, maybe someone should take a day and streamline that "Eee pad reference thread" into something useful/usable again. Looks like the f***** tax code!
C) I'm not a developer -- I can't make anything cool, port this, or deodex that. But I can help these clueless, lost people figure out what went wrong in their attempt to gain root. And often, I'd like to answer their questions...but you already locked the thread and told them to pack their bags because they're not smart enough for the wild west of XDA!
Anyway, it'll be easy for you to dismiss (or lock and delete) this, because it isn't really "Transformer General," I've only posted five times, and/or because no one likes to turn a critical eye upon themselves, but I hope you don't.
I'm just a guest here, and not much of a contributing one at that, but just be respectful to people.

Searching before posting is a rule of this site, not a suggestion. I have seen plenty of people do fine searching for things on their own, myself included. Those that complain about the search function either don't know how to use it right or don't actually use it and claim they did. If your job was to remind people of rules they should already know and are blatantly obvious, but choose to ignore, you would be tired of it too; honestly those people deserve more than a slight reminding of the rules (temp ban sounds more appealing). Consider it a favor that a slap on the wrist is all that happens.
If you don't like XDA search function, use google. If you can't use google, rid yourself of the Internet, save yourself the trouble, and save us from you. Welcome to Earth.
Sent from my creaky Thunderbolt

One reason that the search function doesn't work as anticipated (at least for me) is that the default is "search titles only" and if you just blindly type a search term in and hit "go" then you almost always won't get a hit.
I've had to hit "advanced search" and choose "in titles and posts" to get anything.
So that's my comment and now I have a question..lol...
How do I make the default to search titles and posts and not just titles?
I've already tried saving my search preferences; that seems to do nothing.

mb02 said:
Searching before posting is a rule of this site, not a suggestion. I have seen plenty of people do fine searching for things on their own, myself included. Those that complain about the search function either don't know how to use it right or don't actually use it and claim they did. If your job was to remind people of rules they should already know and are blatantly obvious, but choose to ignore, you would be tired of it too; honestly those people deserve more than a slight reminding of the rules (temp ban sounds more appealing). Consider it a favor that a slap on the wrist is all that happens.
If you don't like XDA search function, use google. If you can't use google, rid yourself of the Internet, save yourself the trouble, and save us from you. Welcome to Earth.
Sent from my creaky Thunderbolt
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Wow. Way to prove OP's point. You know you could have just not commented, but the fact that you expended the effort just to be a snarky, sniping jackass not only showcases exactly what OP was talking about, but also tells us everything we need to know about you as a person. Why don't you go **** yourself and the horse you rode in on?
Thanks

KoNP said:
Wow. Way to prove OP's point. You know you could have just not commented, but the fact that you expended the effort just to be a snarky, sniping jackass not only showcases exactly what OP was talking about, but also tells us everything we need to know about you as a person.
Thanks
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And
KoNP said:
Why don't you go **** yourself and the horse you rode in on?
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Click to collapse
This has got to be the funniest "pot-calling-the-kettle-black" moment I've seen on the XDA in a long time....
Why do these two sentences not go together?
I've seen funny...and that's funny.

rpavich said:
I've seen funny...and that's funny.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, I try.
Also, it's not the pot calling the kettle black to call someone else out on their ****ty behaviour. Additionally, I'm not the one sitting here acting like I'm infallible and taking cheap shots at the OP who made valid points. If mb02 had had something legitimate to say in response to OP, hell something halfway contributory, then he wouldn't have had to respond the way he did. I think he's forgotten that old adage "just because you can, doesn't mean you should" somewhere along the way.
You get to choose which side of the fence to sit on. The side with elitist circlejerkers who practice exclusion like mb02, or the side with people who would rather spend their posting effort helping others and not being a total cockjockey.

Yeah right...you're correcting is WAAAAYYY different than anybody else's....

Read the Policy Announcement to get a feel for why XDA is here.
Also the XDA MANTRA
(begin paraphrase from a former Senior Moderator)
This is not a site to make people popular. I don't care how many people use a specific kernel/ROM/mod/hack/bicycle - act like a fool and demand something from a developer who has put their time and energy and effort - and you deserve to be called out for it. The rules are here for a reason. You either follow them or leave, your choice.
What XDA is:
XDA is a developers site
XDA is a free forum you are ALLOWED to use. We could make it invite only
XDA is and always will be about the developers. And before you say without the users there would be no XDA, Bull****, who do you think used the stuff before normal people even knew what a smartphone was......wait for it.........other developers. People that could give good feedback with relavent info. Not just "dahhh this is broken, please fix".
What XDA is NOT:
XDA is not a place to come and make your phone cool.
XDA is not the cool place for idiots to hang out.
XDA is not your friends house
XDA is not a democracy
XDA is not a place to make Money.
XDA IS a place to come to learn and share your knowledge. If you are not here for those reasons then you are here for the wrong ones.
XDA has become a place where every dumbass in the world has a smartphone and comes here thinking they have the right to anything. Well guess what? You dont have the right to s**t. We share it because we want to and we dont if we dont feel like it. Are the Developers or the Mods required to make you happy? Nope not in the least. Wanna leave. Go ahead. I beg you, please do. The less people that are asking dumb question because they dont know what they are doing (this is understand, but at least look) or are too lazy to look for it the better.
[/end paraphrase]

@OP:You are right most of times, however you can see many people making posts/threads without reading anything. For a MOD/ADMIN who see this again and again and again, I can assume that will be pissed.
More over if some one reads a stickie about flashing and has no idea why/how for his own sake please do not proceed and brick/destroy the equipment.

@OP careful your going to be iron fisted.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium

One thought on the search function. It works fairly well if you take the time to learn it. My only suggestion is to investigate removing or lowering the required wait time between searches. I am wondering of the additional load on the system from more searches would be less than the load caused by creating a new thread after the initial search failed to provide expected results and frustration set in.

Rumbleweed said:
One thought on the search function. It works fairly well if you take the time to learn it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When you start typing a search in the box is your default "titles only"?

mb02,
I understand and appreciate the "search first" rule; and I actually agree that a temp-ban for breaking forum rules is appropriate. What is inappropriate is dishing out smug keyboard-lashings. Someone creates a new post asking something that's been covered a million times before? "Sorry, you've been temp-banned for violation of forum rules. Please read these two threads (blahblah) to understand why and help you become a quality contributor. Hope to see you back."
Not, 'Is the search bar missing, or are you just an idiot? Disconnect your router, crawl in a corner, and die.'
Also, who doesn't have a job that involves dealing with frustrating people while remaining civil?
Moderation is important. Enforcing forum rules is important. Stuff like this, "if you can't use google, rid yourself of the Internet, save yourself the trouble, and save us from you. Welcome to Earth." is disrespectful garbage. I'm an adult with an education, job, and family. If you spoke like that to me in person, we would have an issue.
Jerdog,
I actually already read both of those before I joined -- and they did help me better understand XDA's history. I'm not defending the entitled, "this isn't working, fix it," and "when is the next release???," etc. crowd. Far from it. Those people are guilty of the same disrespect I'm so tired of seeing, and I'm glad the moderators stay on top of that. I know I get tired of reading development threads to figure out how the guys are doing on a particular project and wading through a soup of worthless posts (following the "Virtuous Galaxy" rom development in the Iconia forum was a perfect example of this).
I can only imagine how annoying that is for Mike, Gnufabio, Roach, Rothnic, et al. (That said, I also doubt these guys would be as amazingly prolific as they are if they didn't know that thousands of us non-dev muggles love and appreciate their work.)
If XDA is in fact a place to "learn and share knowledge" (and I hope I eventually can absorb enough know-how from these guys to make and share something of my own...even if it's just a simple framework button/battery mod), that abhors "disrespect, rudeness and fun-ruining"...why so much of that from moderators? It seems Iron Fist simply flipped the script on who gets to be rude. (Again, I have no issue with closing/moving threads and forum housekeeping.)
But this kind of stuff: "Wanna leave? Go ahead. I beg you, please do" ?
Why would you be that hostile?
I understand that this is a free, could-be-invite-only forum, I don't have to pay a thing to use it, XDA has more registered users than it wants, and you have every right to tell me to pound sand. But why would you? I've been learning here, and do my best to share my limited knowledge (even it it means PMing someone the thread that would help them solve their issue because the thread is closed and I can't post in it).
Keep the Development sub-forum limited to the dev elite, but if people stick around (in the General and Questions sub-forums) and learn because their first misstep was corrected respectfully (rather than brutally), maybe they'll be developing a popular rom or theme in a year or two!

rpavich said:
When you start typing a search in the box is your default "titles only"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I almost always use Advanced search. Much more effective.

Because honestly.......Abuse seems to be the only thing that slows the creaping tide of every n00b who jumps on here with his new device and want s to be spoon fed every detail on rooting and roming and theming and overclocking.....etc.....etc....
Instead of looking for the answer they just keep starting new threads for every little issue they have. This is not a customer service forum.

Agree on the advance search. took me a moment to realize the "titles only" option.
However, if im not on my computer its damn near impossible to search anything on the tablet. Anytime i click the search button, it opens, and quickly closes. Not form friendly..
I dont know.
And not trying to derail the conversation here but i have tried different browsers and classic xda option. So, sometimes in a dev thread with over 200 pages, searching isnt an option.
Not XDAs prob. I know. Just saying

Search can take time and hardly ever gets me to where I need on the first try. Fortunately I am on all day, every day flipping through forums so what really works for me is simply searching for my username+search term. Helps narrow down threads I've been in and looking for.
I do think Mods can be "too hostile" sometimes. A simple "Thread Closed" works or "Moved to Appropriate Forum".
It would be nice if threads could be "CLOSED" by users once a solution is found

DaveRichardson said:
If XDA is in fact a place to "learn and share knowledge" (and I hope I eventually can absorb enough know-how from these guys to make and share something of my own...even if it's just a simple framework button/battery mod), that abhors "disrespect, rudeness and fun-ruining"...why so much of that from moderators? It seems Iron Fist simply flipped the script on who gets to be rude. (Again, I have no issue with closing/moving threads and forum housekeeping.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mod Edit: I am an idiot and I cannot properly structure an argument without resorting to vulgar language.

KoNP said:
Uh, yeah... you didn't realise that was precisely the reason they did it?
Moderators have no real power or achievements outside of the little boxes they push around on here. Iron Fist will slowly kill this place - all that'll be left are a bunch of power-crazy gits and the toolbags who clamour to fellate them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ahhhhhhh.....someone sounds a little butthurt

jerdog said:
Read the Policy Announcement to get a feel for why XDA is here.
Also the XDA MANTRA
(begin paraphrase from a former Senior Moderator)
This is not a site to make people popular. I don't care how many people use a specific kernel/ROM/mod/hack/bicycle - act like a fool and demand something from a developer who has put their time and energy and effort - and you deserve to be called out for it. The rules are here for a reason. You either follow them or leave, your choice.
What XDA is:
XDA is a developers site
XDA is a free forum you are ALLOWED to use. We could make it invite only
XDA is and always will be about the developers. And before you say without the users there would be no XDA, Bull****, who do you think used the stuff before normal people even knew what a smartphone was......wait for it.........other developers. People that could give good feedback with relavent info. Not just "dahhh this is broken, please fix".
What XDA is NOT:
XDA is not a place to come and make your phone cool.
XDA is not the cool place for idiots to hang out.
XDA is not your friends house
XDA is not a democracy
XDA is not a place to make Money.
XDA IS a place to come to learn and share your knowledge. If you are not here for those reasons then you are here for the wrong ones.
XDA has become a place where every dumbass in the world has a smartphone and comes here thinking they have the right to anything. Well guess what? You dont have the right to s**t. We share it because we want to and we dont if we dont feel like it. Are the Developers or the Mods required to make you happy? Nope not in the least. Wanna leave. Go ahead. I beg you, please do. The less people that are asking dumb question because they dont know what they are doing (this is understand, but at least look) or are too lazy to look for it the better.
[/end paraphrase]
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Exactly. Thread closed.
This is a development forum, not an end-user support forum. Although many developers are kind enough to answer questions regarding their releases, this is in no way expected from them. Also, development sections must be kept clean in order to allow our valued developers to do what they do without the intrusion of noobish "entitled" attitudes.
If you have a problem with the way the XDA moderation team handles the forums (either general or more specific), you have two choices: you can either leave or you can message MikeChannon, our forum administrator, to suggest a different modus operandi. This thread is useless and off topic, as it's not even peripherally related to the Transformer.