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Not seeing anything for the past week or so when it comes to development, kernel updates, custom themes....etc. Has development halted already? Would be satisfied even with a debloated, optimized stock Honeycomb ROM. The Thunderbolt had its first ROM 2 days after launch and it was opened up before it was even released...what gives, a so called open tablet and nothing. Anything to give me faith again that I don't own a 800.00 bookend would be appreciated.
Then I was thinking about the Nexus One.....Maybe this Xoom is the Nexus One of the Tablet market & will be the developmental Tablet that everyone does everything on.....I'm just so confused at this point I don't know what to do
Honeycomb source hasn't been released = No custom ROMs
ksc6000 said:
Honeycomb source hasn't been released = No custom ROMs
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Click to collapse
Not even able to remove bloat & optimize what we have?
mrksbrd said:
Not even able to remove bloat & optimize what we have?
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Click to collapse
I'm sure bloatware could be removed, but optimizing I think would require our Devs to actually have the source code to optimize
mrksbrd said:
Not seeing anything for the past week or so when it comes to development, kernel updates, custom themes....etc. Has development halted already? Would be satisfied even with a debloated, optimized stock Honeycomb ROM. The Thunderbolt had its first ROM 2 days after launch and it was opened up before it was even released...what gives, a so called open tablet and nothing. Anything to give me faith again that I don't own a 800.00 bookend would be appreciated.
Then I was thinking about the Nexus One.....Maybe this Xoom is the Nexus One of the Tablet market & will be the developmental Tablet that everyone does everything on.....I'm just so confused at this point I don't know what to do
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am confused by your post. What is bloated on the Xoom? It pretty much is a stock OS. You can root it, boost it to 1.5GHz, hook USB flash to it. What features are you exactly looking for?
Its an enjoyable browsing experience, the flash works pretty well, its great for reading ebooks and pdfs, you can listen to your music, watch videos, stream tv, connect to your desktop and have full access to your windows apps(or mac). Look at all your pictures, and if you take advantage of googles cloud, you can store them there and synch it with your phone and tablet without having to store them directly on your devices. It has a great RSS reader, N64 / SNES apps and hook a Wii controller up and have a console like experience, video chat, heck you can hook it up to a HD widescreen and it maintains the perfect aspect ratio and looks great, organize view and reply to emails, explore a really feature filled Map application with a great navigation features. You can even rant about Xoom features from your XDA App . Maybe you dont' agree, which is perfectly cool. Personal opinions are great and should always be respected. But I really am enjoying my Xoom, this is my first tablet, so maybe I am missing something that should be there.
All done with my xoom:
I will say, that I have had some fun with my xoom, but with any toy the xoom in my house has joined my other obsolete toys on my closet shelf. It was a interesting tablet computer I just haven't found much use for my xoom other than playing converted movies. I will just leave it in the box on the shelf, and someday someone will buy it from me at one of my wife's garage sales.
sleeplessninja said:
I am confused by your post. What is bloated on the Xoom? It pretty much is a stock OS. You can root it, boost it to 1.5GHz, hook USB flash to it. What features are you exactly looking for?
Its an enjoyable browsing experience, the flash works pretty well, its great for reading ebooks and pdfs, you can listen to your music, watch videos, stream tv, connect to your desktop and have full access to your windows apps(or mac). Look at all your pictures, and if you take advantage of googles cloud, you can store them there and synch it with your phone and tablet without having to store them directly on your devices. It has a great RSS reader, N64 / SNES apps and hook a Wii controller up and have a console like experience, video chat, heck you can hook it up to a HD widescreen and it maintains the perfect aspect ratio and looks great, organize view and reply to emails, explore a really feature filled Map application with a great navigation features. You can even rant about Xoom features from your XDA App . Maybe you dont' agree, which is perfectly cool. Personal opinions are great and should always be respected. But I really am enjoying my Xoom, this is my first tablet, so maybe I am missing something that should be there.
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I agree with this. There's really nothing missing right now. Nor is there much bloat to remove. Dungeon Defenders? Sure, you could root and remove it, but it's a nice way to show off what the tablet can do.
Down the line, when Moto stops providing proper updates or something, a ROM might be warranted. But with the likelihood of this getting pure stock Android for at least a year to come, means there's really no need for a ROM right now.
goldsworthy said:
I will say, that I have had some fun with my xoom, but with any toy the xoom in my house has joined my other obsolete toys on my closet shelf. It was a interesting tablet computer I just haven't found much use for my xoom other than playing converted movies. I will just leave it in the box on the shelf, and someday someone will buy it from me at one of my wife's garage sales.
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Click to collapse
Not sure how a tablet doesn't make it into your daily routine. It's the first thing I grab in the morning now (after it wakes me up, of course)
I don't know, the way this was marketed it should have bells, whistles, screaming sirens and the ability to control [email protected] least that is what I grabbed out of all the ads, commercials I have saw. I wanted something that came outta the hole like the OG Droid. I know it's still in its baby's footsteps but my main thing is it not taking full availability of this monster Tegra 2. According to the specs of this chip the Xoom is only using 1/16 of its capability. And the other thing I would like is for it to be snappy and responsive....AAAAAHHHHH maybe I'm asking too much, I am just at a crossroad right now & need re-alignment.
mrksbrd said:
I don't know, the way this was marketed it should have bells, whistles, screaming sirens and the ability to control [email protected] least that is what I grabbed out of all the ads, commercials I have saw. I wanted something that came outta the hole like the OG Droid. I know it's still in its baby's footsteps but my main thing is it not taking full availability of this monster Tegra 2. According to the specs of this chip the Xoom is only using 1/16 of its capability. And the other thing I would like is for it to be snappy and responsive....AAAAAHHHHH maybe I'm asking too much, I am just at a crossroad right now & need re-alignment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HEY! the xoom also makes for a nice calculator if nothing else!.
mrksbrd said:
Not seeing anything for the past week or so when it comes to development, kernel updates, custom themes....etc. Has development halted already? Would be satisfied even with a debloated, optimized stock Honeycomb ROM. The Thunderbolt had its first ROM 2 days after launch and it was opened up before it was even released...what gives, a so called open tablet and nothing. Anything to give me faith again that I don't own a 800.00 bookend would be appreciated.
Then I was thinking about the Nexus One.....Maybe this Xoom is the Nexus One of the Tablet market & will be the developmental Tablet that everyone does everything on.....I'm just so confused at this point I don't know what to do
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should already be satisfied then because there is no bloat on here which makes it a pure google experience device and once source is released i expect it to be the nexus one of tablets
PaulG1488 said:
You should already be satisfied then because there is no bloat on here which makes it a pure google experience device and once source is released i expect it to be the nexus one of tablets
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Click to collapse
"once source is released ?" you meen IF SOURCE IS RELEASED they may never do so!. I still dont have a SD card slot that workes in my xoom.
Its a stock google device. Bloat? Cordy and dungeon defenders? Rename apk to bak in root explorer and they're gone. It'll be ROMmed eventually but right now just enjoy pure honeycomb minus lame blur skin.
Source will be released once more tabs are out. Lame ass tabs are hacked and OSs thrown on them that shouldn't be. Google is protecting their prized OS from being hacked onto a 7"gtab or nook.
I don't think it has to do with the loss of enthusiasm but the lack of the source as stated by other posters. Maybe spirits have been dampened by Google's decision to delay the release of the source code but once it's release there will be a fresh breeze of ROMs.
Poll options suck
can't vote as none of the poll options support my thoughts.
"Everything I dreamed of"
funnycreature said:
I don't think it has to do with the loss of enthusiasm but the lack of the source as stated by other posters. Maybe spirits have been dampened by Google's decision to delay the release of the source code but once it's release there will be a fresh breeze of ROMs.
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I think this says it best. People are disappointed that source isn't being released soon but it definitely doesn't it won't be. They have released source for each one so far doesn't make sense that they would stop now
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
Above I started a thread entitled: "Is Motorola Ditching Android." If anyone bothers to read the linked article, it presents a possible motivation for not releasing the source code:
WAR
The hardware companies are starting to talk about breaking away from Google. HP has purchased palm and is releasing its own tablet. Now Motorola is rumored to be considering the same thing. The Blackberry Playbook Tablet is now up for pre-order on Best Buy. http://www.bestbuy.com/site/iPad-Tablet-PCs/Tablet-PCs/pcmcat209000050008.c?id=pcmcat209000050008
The Holy Grail in this business is to own BOTH the OS and the hardware. Know any other company who has done this? Begins with an A... named after a fruit....
Perhaps Google is reconsidering just how open-source it wants to be.
We can't have a deodexed or optimized rom until the smali utilities are updated, which requires honey comb source to drop.
Sent from my Samsung-SPH-D700 using XDA App
Digital Man said:
Above I started a thread entitled: "Is Motorola Ditching Android." If anyone bothers to read the linked article, it presents a possible motivation for not releasing the source code:
WAR
The hardware companies are starting to talk about breaking away from Google. HP has purchased palm and is releasing its own tablet. Now Motorola is rumored to be considering the same thing. The Blackberry Playbook Tablet is now up for pre-order on Best Buy. http://www.bestbuy.com/site/iPad-Tablet-PCs/Tablet-PCs/pcmcat209000050008.c?id=pcmcat209000050008
The Holy Grail in this business is to own BOTH the OS and the hardware. Know any other company who has done this? Begins with an A... named after a fruit....
Perhaps Google is reconsidering just how open-source it wants to be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Take off your aluminum hat for a moment.
I hope you understand that the "holy grail" as you put it is a bit more complicated than you think. For those of us who ummmm....read and know ****. We refer to thing like that with a really fancy phrase called "vertical integration". Also, remember Apple is a vertical integration monster, owning the hardware, OS, AND * drum-roll* distribution channels. They've built their company up like this. Motorola is still a long way from having this sort of capability. They don't even own all their hardware. The article you posted contains statements taken out of context. Complaints like those are hardly rare and mostly amount to nothing.
I can promise you google will release the source code for Honeycomb. It is no surprise that they are withholding a product that was specifically designed for and still incomplete on the xoom. If they put out the source code small companies as well as every **** and jane could peddle incredibly ****ty software with google branding with a side pile of bricks large enough to build a bridge to russia. They rushed the release because of the Ipad 2. **** works OK. Give them some time to make 3.0 play nice with pretty much everything else, and if that includes phones, it might take awhile. Be patient.
Digital Man said:
Above I started a thread entitled: "Is Motorola Ditching Android." If anyone bothers to read the linked article, it presents a possible motivation for not releasing the source code:
WAR
The hardware companies are starting to talk about breaking away from Google. HP has purchased palm and is releasing its own tablet. Now Motorola is rumored to be considering the same thing. The Blackberry Playbook Tablet is now up for pre-order on Best Buy. http://www.bestbuy.com/site/iPad-Tablet-PCs/Tablet-PCs/pcmcat209000050008.c?id=pcmcat209000050008
The Holy Grail in this business is to own BOTH the OS and the hardware. Know any other company who has done this? Begins with an A... named after a fruit....
Perhaps Google is reconsidering just how open-source it wants to be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All of this is not entirely true. The Holy Grail in business doesn't always mean you have to do hardware and OS. One pure example of where it didn't work out as planned is Nokia. Grant it there is more involved that just this, but it just serves as an example.
Mobile is a very complex platform that involves many, many factors. In fact one of Apples biggest moves in our decade was to switch from making their own in house processors(their own hardware) and to go with x86 Intel Chips (someone elses hardware). Yes apple puts the hardware together, but its not just their own hardware. Even for the iphone and ipad, do you know who makes the CPU/GPU for Apple phones? They partnered with a company called Samsung, who also makes android phones.
Motorola isn't rumored to be making their own OS, they are, but the kind of OS they are looking to build is much different from the android or apple. From what I have read in the technology articles they are building a web based phones, which is still very much an untapped market and will most likely be different than a smartphone experience. Motorola has done a solid job with the android platform so far. I love my droid, the droid X is great, the Atrix is a smart idea, and the Xoom is a solid device(all my personal opinion) , I think motorola is one of the best android devices out there right now and it makes sense for them to explore new territory, like they did with the Atrix. Honestly the other companies like HP need to find a way to compete in a sea of android devices especially with great manufactures like HTC and Motorola, i think its smart that they choose to differentiate themselves.(again my opinion)
There is no right way to do a business. Whether you choose to focus in do good in one thing, or create an empire that does many amazing things, every business has their way to what they do. I am not dissing apple, android, microsoft, nokia, you or anyone. But please you cannot break down these very complex companies with thousands of employees, dozens of divisions across the world into simple black and white answers.
_RTFM_ said:
Take off your aluminum hat for a moment.
I hope you understand that the "holy grail" as you put it is a bit more complicated than you think. For those of us who ummmm....read and know ****. We refer to thing like that with a really fancy phrase called "vertical integration". Also, remember Apple is a vertical integration monster, owning the hardware, OS, AND * drum-roll* distribution channels. They've built their company up like this. Motorola is still a long way from having this sort of capability. They don't even own all their hardware. The article you posted contains statements taken out of context. Complaints like those are hardly rare and mostly amount to nothing.
I can promise you google will release the source code for Honeycomb. It is no surprise that they are withholding a product that was specifically designed for and still incomplete on the xoom. If they put out the source code small companies as well as every **** and jane could peddle incredibly ****ty software with google branding with a side pile of bricks large enough to build a bridge to russia. They rushed the release because of the Ipad 2. **** works OK. Give them some time to make 3.0 play nice with pretty much everything else, and if that includes phones, it might take awhile. Be patient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you what I mostly feel as well.
First off, keep in mind I'm not trying to start a fight. I really don't know the answers.
Given that Honeycomb is never going to be open source, to me that means ROM changes by the dev community are impossible. Only Acer can make and push out those changes.
I don't consider changing an app out to be "development". To me, that's theming. While that's a fine thing, what I really want are changes to the core code to fix basic problems with the OS we've been given.
At some point in the near future I'd like to participate in making those changes.
Since HC source is never going to be available to me, that tells me that I'm going to be limited to theming the OS I've already got.
What do you know that I don't which leads you to think the dev community will be able to make substantial changes to our tablets?
Ice Cream is rumored to be scheduled for Q4 and Google has stated it will be the next open-sourced version.
Honeycomb was effectively a rush-to-market to try to allow companies like Motorola and Acer to compete with the iPad before it came too late, and is an incredible hack job.
I'm okay with that. Once someone breaks the boot-loader on the Acer some enterprising dev will get Ice Cream on it, even if Honeycomb is never released as source.
News sources: http://phandroid.com/2011/05/10/goo...mb-because-they-wanted-to-wait-for-ice-cream/
http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/10/google-announces-ice-cream-sadwich-for-q4-2011-for-smartphones/
It's funny that Google is so embarassed of how bad they had to code Honeycomb to get it out that they won't let the public see it. It's got to be really stinky, and it explains the problems we have. I'd rather this than Apple winning the war though.
That being said, I don't want Apple out of the game either. I want it split 50/50 or so. Encourage price and development pressure on the corporations.
muqali said:
It's funny that Google is so embarassed of how bad they had to code Honeycomb to get it out that they won't let the public see it. It's got to be really stinky, and it explains the problems we have. I'd rather this than Apple winning the war though.
That being said, I don't want Apple out of the game either. I want it split 50/50 or so. Encourage price and development pressure on the corporations.
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Yup. I completely agree. The competition keeps them on their toes.
Sent from Desire HD or Inspire 4G or whatever this thing is called via premium XDA app.
agreed , I dont think anyone wants Apple out of the game , just as kicking Microsoft to the curb is unwise! Competition makes prices go down and technology better!
I think the comparison to apple products is not really justified. These tablets are not glorified ipods (and I mean this in a good way), but they are actual intermediates from phone to laptops. I have a more efficient way of browsing, e-mail, reading, playing movies, etc that happens to have games.
I am impressed that Apple introduces well packaged and polished products to consumers, and for most consumers, these products will work well for their "needs." I agree with what another member said recently, just using the product is only half the fun. I think the reason we are on these forums and buy these products is that we enjoy the challenge that Android devices hold. They are basically the most raw form of the new tablet PC market, akin to the old IBMs and such that most of us remember using when we were younger. You know, the ones we used to open up and explore, disassemble and reassemble.
I love what the android tablet market offers: a collection of powerful hardware and the collective creativity of everyone in this dev community. I am looking forward to what kind of crazy things this community comes up with.
http://techcrunch.com/2011/05/15/ho...ampaign=Feed:+Techcrunch+(TechCrunch)#XpulseX
What are your thoughts?
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
tumbes20000 said:
http://techcrunch.com/2011/05/15/ho...ampaign=Feed:+Techcrunch+(TechCrunch)#XpulseX
What are your thoughts?
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
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Click to collapse
Apple has TechCrunch in its pockets....that site is absolutely horrid and untrustworthy
beside my hurt feelings as an android and xoom fan.
The arcticle is a little one-sided. And a sad thing about todays journalism is, that its all about controversy and polemics.
I think it's a fair article. Honeycomb has problems and bugs that are hurting consumer adoption and like it or not, the Xoom wasn't a good enough device to make people ignore those flaws.
It's too heavy, the screen is very poor, and it shipped with two major features disabled.
Maybe some of you guys would prefer to be mollycoddled and told nice things, but tough.
For the record, Kincaid has historically been a bit of an android fan. Siegler is the shameless, illogical Apple fanboy.
That was more like a critical opinions expressed rather than a fair review.
I mean, holy ****, he doesn't even mention the point that honeycomb is a platform built from scratch...he even stated that the xoom with its honeycomb platform can't never ever get close to the ipads perfection. Noooo...ipad with a phone os, ios, has been around long enough for bug fixes, isn't any better than the honeycomb. In fact its dead simple and too familiar for a long time user to get boring. But this guy surely doesn't get bored after probably all 5 years using the damn iPhone.
one more thing, what kind of reviewer in the world complains about the f*cking home button look like a goddamn up arrow. It doesn't.
PS: this is off topic but I'm sitting at Starbucks, a Guy asked me if my xoom is an ipad. Right in the middle of my anger, I told him: ipad sucks. This is the Motorola xoom running android, much better. Then I get the usual "what is android". Holy cow, I should've just told him yeah this is an ipad, It sucks.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
wang1404 said:
That was more like a critical opinions expressed rather than a fair review.
I mean, holy ****, he doesn't even mention the point that honeycomb is a platform built from scratch...he even stated that the xoom with its honeycomb platform can't never ever get close to the ipads perfection. Noooo...ipad with a phone os, ios, has been around long enough for bug fixes, isn't any better than the honeycomb. In fact its dead simple and too familiar for a long time user to get boring. But this guy surely doesn't get bored after probably all 5 years using the damn iPhone.
one more thing, what kind of reviewer in the world complains about the f*cking home button look like a goddamn up arrow. It doesn't.
PS: this is off topic but I'm sitting at Starbucks, a Guy asked me if my xoom is an ipad. Right in the middle of my anger, I told him: ipad sucks. This is the Motorola xoom running android, much better. Then I get the usual "what is android". Holy cow, I should've just told him yeah this is an ipad, It sucks.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
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Click to collapse
The writer is an Android user. The user experience on the iPad is currently better than on Honeycomb, something which I'm sure will improve in the near future. But that's the future.
Why should he mention that it was built from the ground up? Who the hell cares other than us early adopters? What's important to the consumer (ie his readers) is how well executed it is and right now it still needs work.
His job is to offer an objective view of the platform, not make excuses for it. The latter, apparently, is your job.
>His job is to offer an objective view of the platform
We must be reading different blog posts. It's an opinion piece. Opinions are by definition not objective.
@OP: My thought is that you should pay less attention to blogger pundits with the usual juvie "us-vs-them" argument. It's not a sum-zero game. One doesn't have to lose for the other to win. I think both iOS & Android will do well.
The more interesting question would be, who else besides the two frontrunners will likely make the cut? One would have to count in Windows 8, if only because of the sheer size of the Windows installed base.
WebOS is a dark horse, and QNX is a REALLY dark horse. And MeeGo for now seems to be a horse without a home.
After reading the article, I didn't really think it was all that bad. It was the telling of personal anecdotal experience with an early-release Honeycomb tablet. He likes the Galaxy better. Fine. My own experience with the Xoom has been delightful. I will be happier when there are more made for tablet apps available in the market but that will come in time.
I've read a number of complaints about the weight of the Xoom, and while it was a little heavy to me at first, I've gotten used to it and now I kind of like the "feel." I haven't used the iPad so I can't comment on how they compare. I've read other reviews that favored the Xoom over the iPad. I think it is going to come down to personal preference. This is the whole reason why there are both multiple brands and multiple models within brands.
There are reasons why I personally choose not to go apple and it is not because they make lousy hardware. It has more to do with the amount of (in my opinion tyrannical) control they are determined to exercise over their products. Some people think that even this is a good thing; I don't. The guy in the article has his opinion, I have mine.
e.mote said:
>His job is to offer an objective view of the platform
We must be reading different blog posts. It's an opinion piece. Opinions are by definition not objective.
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Thanks for that. I was just thinking this thread could do with being bogged down in semantics.
Replace 'objective' with 'informed and balanced' then. Because that's precisely what the article is.
Some of you guys are unbelievable. An Android user writes an article expressing optimism for the future of the platform and the entire piece is rubbished because he has the temerity to mention (correctly, in my opinion and the opinion of most reviewers) that the Xoom was a flawed first attempt. Good work.
hatworthy said:
The writer is an Android user. The user experience on the iPad is currently better than on Honeycomb, something which I'm sure will improve in the near future. But that's the future.
Why should he mention that it was built from the ground up? Who the hell cares other than us early adopters? What's important to the consumer (ie his readers) is how well executed it is and right now it still needs work.
His job is to offer an objective view of the platform, not make excuses for it. The latter, apparently, is your job.
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Click to collapse
He doesn't seem to be an android user to me. And it wasn't objective. His opinions were all over the place. The weight is judged by preference. I, am a skinny guy, likes the feel of the weight in my hand.
Again, the home button looking like an up arrow doesn't demonstrate the objective view either. That is clearly how much he's disliked honeycomb. Its a practice of fanboyism bringing the smallest thing to show how bad a product is.
If the article is categorized as a review, bring it to where a review should be. Don't involve with other products then compare and contrast them.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
>Replace 'objective' with 'informed and balanced' then. Because that's precisely what the article is.
That's the problem with opinions. If it agrees with your view, it's "informed and balanced." If it isn't, it's "trash and fanboyish".
I'm not sure how "informed and balanced" the piece is when it's based solely on one person's experience with one (OK, two) specific device, running one specific version of HC (3.0.1). Pieces like these are afflicted by what I call the-world-revolves-around-me syndrome, ie if I like it, it's great, if I don't, doom & gloom shall follow.
This, regardless of what the writer thinks of the Android platform. Just because he thinks well (or poorly, whatever) of Android's chances doesn't mean his opinion is worth any more than the space-filler that it is.
And we're back to the subjectivity non-argument again.
You can always tell when somebody lacks debating skills. They always play for the solipsistic stalemate.
wang1404 said:
PS: this is off topic but I'm sitting at Starbucks, a Guy asked me if my xoom is an ipad. Right in the middle of my anger, I told him: ipad sucks. This is the Motorola xoom running android, much better. Then I get the usual "what is android". Holy cow, I should've just told him yeah this is an ipad, It sucks.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
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Click to collapse
Why are you complaining?
Even my girlfriend calls my xoom an ipad. "Can i have your ipad for a moment"
while I don't necessarily disagree with some of the HoneyComb criticisms, or Xoom criticisms in this article TechCrunch is a poor site, with terribly written articles.
The article referenced in an earlier post for example:
"Holding the Xoom with one hand isn’t difficult in the slightest, but it isn’t effortless either."
Suggesting that holding it with one hand isn't effortless, suggests that that there is a certain degree of difficulty, more then 'slightest'. This guy claims that "I’m not going to do a detailed run-through of the hardware specs (which aren’t my forte)..." if talking about hardware specs is not your forte why are you writing an article on a site called "TechCrunch"? Unless you are a great writer, which clearly he is not. TechCrunch hurts my brain.
Also by the way most of the criticisms he mentions are not something you can say about the Xoom with the 3.1 update, which is pretty dope. No FC's better responsiveness throughout, and the browser doesn't suck anymore.
>TechCrunch is a poor site, with terribly written articles.
Yes, TC has terrible writers, but so do the vast majority of tech blogs. Sadly, the techies who read them usually aren't the more discriminating types, and tend to confuse them for real journalists.
"Informed and balanced"... hahah, I'm still chuckling about that one.
Gadget blogs are good for gadget news, not for analytical pieces or op-eds about state of the industry.
Hatworthy seems to be the only one in this thread with half a brain. The Xoom IS heavy.. You cannot hold the Xoom with one hand facing down while looking up for a long period of time. How do I know? I have owned a ipad 2, Xoom, and bb Playbook.. Xoom is uncomfortable to hold in CERTAIN positions. The screen is subpar compared to those tabs named. And is 'unstable' compared to iOS not so much QNX. The Xoom also came with no 4G and SD support ...neither do the competition you say? Well it wasn't promised and used as a marketing ploy like the Xoom thus is the issue.
If the Xoom came with a screen atleast equal to the iPad and Honeycomb was just a tad more stable the Xoom if provided different models I.E 16GB,32,64,etc and was lighter would easily be the best.
You don't mention hardware specs in a cconsumer report my mom doesn't care what's in the computer but how it runs.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
I don't get the 2% of the folks who scream from the rooftops that the screen is not as good as most of the other platforms. I'm not in love with any of them. We have each of them in our lab. They are all horrible for getting anything significant done and the iOS device is the most useless closely followed by the Playbook. I'm glad that my primary reason for getting the Xoom was not so much for work, but maybe next year or the year after, we'll vetsome real utility out of these suckers.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
3devious said:
I don't get the 2% of the folks who scream from the rooftops that the screen is not as good as most of the other platforms. I'm not in love with any of them. We have each of them in our lab. They are all horrible for getting anything significant done and the iOS device is the most useless closely followed by the Playbook. I'm glad that my primary reason for getting the Xoom was not so much for work, but maybe next year or the year after, we'll vetsome real utility out of these suckers.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
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2%? No offense but why pull a imaginery number out the sky to back your claim? I'm positive a-lot more than "2%" if coming from an iPad 1 or iPad 2 would not look at the Xoom's screen and immediately notice a difference. This is a 'Tablet' no bigger than 10" and used developed as a multimedia hub. No one said the screen is bad because it's not!! It's just not as good as it should be for the price ....
fuyajo said:
Why are you complaining?
Even my girlfriend calls my xoom an ipad. "Can i have your ipad for a moment"
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Jesus, its time for the world to end now. You've got to train her. I trained my girl she was wanting me to get an ipad but I got super talkative and blows all the things about the opacity. Then she understood and now she's calling the xoom by its right name.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
>Jesus, its time for the world to end now.
Not until Saturday.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/20/us/20rapture.html
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and...in-HP-TouchPad-on-the-Extinction-List-691746/
If you can't get to the link somehow, this is what [email protected] had to say (dated today) about why our Iconia should be on the extinction list. I'll let you spot the multitude of BS. If you get a chance, email him and tell him to do some research before he opens his mouth on the 'net.
"It’s hard to find too many worthwhile features in the Acer Iconia Tablet that can’t be found in other devices. The slate comes with a 2-megapixel camera, a dual-core Tegra 2 processor, and a 10.1-inch display. However, it’s running Android Honeycomb 3.0—an issue for those looking for the more-reliable Android 3.1. Combine that with the fact few people even know about the device, and it might not be long before the $400 tablet fades from the market."
What an uninformed asshole.
so sales numbers is the only thing he equates to a good product, well then the ford focus must be one of the best cars on the road
Why bother? Clearly he is an Apple Fanboi. He slammed every major player in the Android Tablet Market.
Easy fun happyness
Just read the last 50 articles he had posted. Quite obvious who is getting a check from whom.
Or perhaps his outdated and silly info is a true "review", right? Too bad many people will be fooled into letting a "review" like this influence their choice of tablets to purchase.
Xnine1964 said:
Why bother? Clearly he is an Apple Fanboi. He slammed every major player in the Android Tablet Market.
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Google the name and go to page two and it starts to make much more sense
For real
Check out this article - android 2.2 vs. Ios. http://tinyurl.com/237lz3f
Lmao
i hate fanboyism at its finest. I do not like apple but damn i at least respect what they have done.
Honestly, why would we care what some dude says about the Iconia.
Sent from my MOTWX435KT using Tapatalk
I wonder how someone so misinformed about so many products is still allowed to write about them.
This really makes you wonder what the editor of this publication does all day, this all falls back in his lap.
PapaTim said:
I wonder how someone so misinformed about so many products is still allowed to write about them.
This really makes you wonder what the editor of this publication does all day, this all falls back in his lap.
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that's called Free Speach
What an idiot, though, such an easy job/money for him.
eWeek needs to just change their name to biweekly and be honest about it.
Load of BS. Obviously XDA folks are clued in to the merits our A500 or whatever. Whatever happened to reliable journalism? I love my A500 - it serves my needs perfectly and latest ROMs for Android 3.2 show promise to make A500 an iPad killer.
Sent from my A500 using xda premium
I took it a step further and emailed eweek's editor [email protected]:
In reference to http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and...in-HP-TouchPad-on-the-Extinction-List-691746/ - Enterprise Mobility: 10 Tablets That Should Join HP TouchPad on the Extinction List
I have got to say this article is riddled with technological errors that make me wonder if a) anyone fact checked Mr. Reisinger's work and b) did he even use any of these products before his apparent bias declared that they should die?
Case in Point the Acer Iconia Tab 1/11 in this article:
"It’s hard to find too many worthwhile features in the Acer Iconia Tablet that can’t be found in other devices. The slate comes with a 2-megapixel camera, a dual-core Tegra 2 processor, and a 10.1-inch display. However, it’s running Android Honeycomb 3.0—an issue for those looking for the more-reliable Android 3.1. Combine that with the fact few people even know about the device, and it might not be long before the $400 tablet fades from the market."
The only thing right here is the name, the processor front camera, and the display size. His argument seems to hinge on the fact that it's running Honeycomb 3.0?? Despite the fact like every android tablet - they all shipped with 3.0 and were quickly upgraded to 3.1 and 3.2 - just like the Acer Iconia was upgraded over 3 months ago. The Tablet sports 2 cameras, just like the iPad - and just like the iPad has a lower resolution front camera, but at 2-megapixal in the front and 5 in the back it's still got better resolution than the ipad2 - so I'm unclear why the camera is anything but a postive. He doesn't even discuss any of the tablet's unique features like being the only Andorid tablet in his list that sports a full size usb connection or its rave reviews across the web including Ziff Davis' own PC Magazine which gave it a good rating in April of 2011. The fact that the a500 has been outselling more "well known" tablets like the Motorola Xoom should say that in fact there are a few more people who know about this tablet than Mr. Reisinger's leads on.
It is my hope that after an editorial review of this article it can be corrected to at least include the facts, not just blind rambling from someone who obviously isn't a fan of Android tablets.
Regards,
David
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entropy.of.avarice said:
Google the name and go to page two and it starts to make much more sense
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I understand.
Top 5 reasons Don Reisinger sucks:
1. Because he does
2. Because he really does
3. Because he really, really does
4. Because he really, really,really does
5. Because his mother abandoned him as a child in a Starbucks with a sign attached that said "He sucks"
Just saying.
What a tool, well I sent him an email anyway, not like it could penetrate his brain.
Wow, that guy is a complete asshat. i emailed him, for what good it will do. I'm sure his reign of douchebaggery will continue unabated. I mean, he is entitled to his opinion, no matter how wrong, but at least hire a fact-checker or possibly just read the listed specs on the manufacturer's website before spouting such verbal feces.
I've also emailed this assclown (cc'd to his editor). I take issue not only with his options and mis-information regarding the Iconia, but with the article as a whole. I realize that editorials are opinionated, but that doesn't release a journalist from being honest and fair.
For starters, there his blatent opinion that 7" is too small for a tablet. I cannot see how millions in combined sales can possibly be disregarded as "redundant". AFAIK, the Galaxay Tab 7 is still the best selling non-Apple tablet to date. They still seem to be in solid demand now, with even the resale value holding up in the 75% or better range (at least in the Toronto area). As someone in the tech sale industry, at least half of non-Apple tablet sales I see are 7" devices.
Also, dismissing yet to be released products, i.e. the Cisco Cousin, is just rediculous.
Plus, the article is riddled with factual inaccuracies and misleading statements.
Lastly, I take issue with his dismissal of Asus as a non-"mainstream" company. The Eee PC defined the netbook market. You would be hard pressed to find a consumer who has shopped for a netbook who HASN'T heard of Asus.
I expect more journalistic integrity from a Ziff-Davis publication, but perhaps I'm living in the past.
Sent from Vera, my Iconia A500; All dressed up going places!
Wow that was funny! Seems the only tablet allowed to live is the one with the least features. The writer might just be mentally challanged, but whoever published that should be more responsible to the readers. Freedom of speach should not be an excuse for bad journalism.
Sent from my A500 using XDA Premium App
BrianDigital said:
so sales numbers is the only thing he equates to a good product, well then the ford focus must be one of the best cars on the road
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Well put.
I guess that makes the A500 a sleek sports car to the Ipad's Dodge Neon-like sales numbers.
I wrote a scathing reply to Ziff Davis, critical of the article and rebutting the claims. It will probably go straight to the trash folder, but its worth a shot.
I have been a strong advocate of the Mad Catz Mojo since release, and I still think it has the most powerful components of any Android box to date and has a LOT of potential...but I have to come to the realization that the potential is lost on this device for quite a few reasons:
1. Mad Catz does not seem to "know" the device or their end users in this area.
Exactly as I put it above. They did not know how to root their own device and needed Modaco to come forward with a root method, and thank GOD for that, as without it you would quickly discover that you cannot download a single thing from the Playstore without it. But root is usually the beginning to better things. It seems like it was the one and only mod. Root was necessary, but custom recovery and a WAY to recover this device is also necessary. You just gave the general population a way to wreck the Mojo, but no way to recover from it. Nice. Feels like this was merely released and that is all. Sort of like "here you go, figure it out". You advertise on the box that this can play your Playstore purchases, but not until rooting. You guys should be rooting these before packaging.
2. Price
I never had an issue with the price, but I know others have. For a "figure it out on your own, we will not assist" type of device, maybe the introductory price should have been $199, and then dropped to $150. I fear the price is driving away potential devs...that is the price of what you are getting. The console is great, and honestly does not need to be included with that controller. It does not have a screen like the Shield. There is no reason why the joystick cannot be omitted and the price drastically lowered...maybe down to Minix Neo X7 pricetag ($130)
3. No advertising, upselling, no dev samples..
I saw a blog my someone (I will not mention his name) in which you guys were supposed to send him a Mojo and never did. He didn't care, but was upset because you guys made a promise and backed out. You didn't even contact him again. Not good. These Mojo units should have been handed out to the dev elite to help keep this box alive. If they don't have it and are reluctant to buy it, nothing is going to come of it. Get it? Ohh, and advertising is key for products. I saw you guys talking it up pre-release in trade shows, NeweggTV, etc. Then it is released and nothing. You did make that Ouya announcement two months ago....but the light is dimming. Faster items are on the way and this device is going to be forgotten before it has a chance to be remembered.
It pains me to say it, but I have now too returned my Mojo. Not because anyone talked me into another device, but because I feel the lack of support, updates, news, development, anything at all....is the doom that is the Mojo. No way to get in and install a custom rom (or even stock rom if bricked) is just asking for trouble. What if some rogue app bricked the mojo? What are you going to tell me? Send it to Canada and wait a month for you to flash it? Or do you even know how to do that?
I ended up ordering the Minix Neo X7 (I know the X8 is coming, and will probably get that as well) not because I think it is more powerful (I know it is not) but because there is a world of active development going in for the device and a dozen ways to ensure that I never end up with a paperweight down the road. If it runs emulators/movies/music well that is all I need. I wish the Mojo was the ultimate answer (in hardware it nearly is for me) but software/development/support ends up being even MORE important than the hardware contained. It's like someone giving you an 8-Core CPU but only providing software that takes advantage of one core. Ugh.
Your unbelievable zektor, first you act like a little child to me because i was saying this for a long time, and you was making stupid posts of how stupid my phone is and how stupid you must be to have a phone like mine, and more.
And now you are saying this, make up your mind.
AmigaWolf said:
Your unbelievable zektor, first you act like a little child to me because i was saying this for a long time, and you was making stupid posts of how stupid my phone is and how stupid you must be to have a phone like mine, and more.
And now you are saying this, make up your mind.
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Click to collapse
Your phone and your attitude DOES suck. I did not change my mind about that Your stupid posts compound the issue and make the Mojo less desirable...or at least the Mojo forums. Congratulations for that. You should be given a "major award". Your posts have nothing to do with mine. You were just a crybaby because you bricked yours and they had no more in stock to replenish it for you.
As for the Mojo, I still stand my ground that it is the most powerful (currently) Android TV box on the market. That is fact, not me just saying it. It is a shame the way it has turned out however with the lack of support, no development, and a weak forum with only a handful of helpful and encouraging people and one real dipstick (hint, the post above)
zektor said:
Your phone and your attitude DOES suck. I did not change my mind about that Your stupid posts compound the issue and make the Mojo less desirable...or at least the Mojo forums. Congratulations for that. You should be given a "major award". Your posts have nothing to do with mine. You were just a crybaby because you bricked yours and they had no more in stock to replenish it for you.
As for the Mojo, I still stand my ground that it is the most powerful (currently) Android TV box on the market. That is fact, not me just saying it. It is a shame the way it has turned out however with the lack of support, no development, and a weak forum with only a handful of helpful and encouraging people and one real dipstick (hint, the post above)
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Oh wait i forgot, is it bed time for you little child, Yes i hear your mother yelling that you must go to bed, because you must go to school in the morning.
Sleep tight, and don't let the bedbugs bite.
I agree with zektor I biught this cuz it said was going to be rooted and was good quality but was very disappointed with the extra stuff I had to do. Not for the average person. Hes right the more people the more development from devs amd if it takes mad catz giving some free out to high level devs to make thier product better then they need to hurry up. There used to be a mad catz rep here but ive seen nothing for a while I ciuld be wrong. Maybe cause he has blno answers anymore
zektor said:
I have been a strong advocate of the Mad Catz Mojo since release, and I still think it has the most powerful components of any Android box to date and has a LOT of potential...but I have to come to the realization that the potential is lost on this device for quite a few reasons:
1. Mad Catz does not seem to "know" the device or their end users in this area.
2. Price
3. No advertising, upselling, no dev samples..
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Click to collapse
Strange that a week ago you wrote Reasons you SHOULD buy a M.O.J.O.. the mojo hasn't changed,Android hasn't changed, the community hasn't changed.. so what's changed? " because I feel the lack of support, updates, news, development, anything at all"
Well there was an update 2 days ago: http://madcatz.com/4k-coming-to-mojo/
Apart from that, it hasn't changed.
Obviously, it's not a cheap toy like Ouya, so yes less devs and I would agree with you: "No way to get in and install a custom rom (or even stock rom if bricked) is just asking for trouble. "
But I'm guessing, like rooting, madcatz can't do it or release the image due to legal reasons (it's android/nvidia's software) obviously it would be nice if it "leaked".. then yeah sure I too would try more risky stuff..
Price point I think it's great value and a complete package with the ctrlr... ie I don't like the amazon firetv controller, moga etc.
re Advertising etc, I think they are timing it, it's not cheap to advertise.. I'm guessing they are waiting to finish kit-kat/ouya everywhere before doing so? I don't know.. don't really care
"I wish the Mojo was the ultimate answer (in hardware it nearly is for me) but software/development/support ends up being even MORE important than the hardware contained. It's like someone giving you an 8-Core CPU but only providing software that takes advantage of one core. Ugh. "
Madcatz is a hardware vendor, TMK they don't do software... and that's one of their selling point, no vendor lock in.
It's like you bought an Dell laptop and returned it because Dell didn't put out enough patches/upgrade? :silly:
What community mods makes you think your not running on all 8 cores?
I mean you had a good set up... what exactly couldn't you do?
Anyway, I'm still optimistic and it's still early days, MOJO is future proof, it's spec's are still top of the line and will continue to be for a while yet.
I wouldn't be surprised if kitkat/ouya comes out closer to the holiday season.
gwaldo said:
Strange that a week ago you wrote Reasons you SHOULD buy a M.O.J.O.. the mojo hasn't changed,Android hasn't changed, the community hasn't changed.. so what's changed? " because I feel the lack of support, updates, news, development, anything at all"
Well there was an update 2 days ago: http://madcatz.com/4k-coming-to-mojo/
Apart from that, it hasn't changed.
Obviously, it's not a cheap toy like Ouya, so yes less devs and I would agree with you: "No way to get in and install a custom rom (or even stock rom if bricked) is just asking for trouble. "
But I'm guessing, like rooting, madcatz can't do it or release the image due to legal reasons (it's android/nvidia's software) obviously it would be nice if it "leaked".. then yeah sure I too would try more risky stuff..
Price point I think it's great value and a complete package with the ctrlr... ie I don't like the amazon firetv controller, moga etc.
re Advertising etc, I think they are timing it, it's not cheap to advertise.. I'm guessing they are waiting to finish kit-kat/ouya everywhere before doing so? I don't know.. don't really care
"I wish the Mojo was the ultimate answer (in hardware it nearly is for me) but software/development/support ends up being even MORE important than the hardware contained. It's like someone giving you an 8-Core CPU but only providing software that takes advantage of one core. Ugh. "
Madcatz is a hardware vendor, TMK they don't do software... and that's one of their selling point, no vendor lock in.
It's like you bought an Dell laptop and returned it because Dell didn't put out enough patches/upgrade? :silly:
What community mods makes you think your not running on all 8 cores?
I mean you had a good set up... what exactly couldn't you do?
Anyway, I'm still optimistic and it's still early days, MOJO is future proof, it's spec's are still top of the line and will continue to be for a while yet.
I wouldn't be surprised if kitkat/ouya comes out closer to the holiday season.
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Yes, it was a nice setup and yes, I still do believe there are reasons to buy the Mojo. But, it is not future proof. It is getting older by the day (the Tegra 4) and more and more devices will have the processor (or something more powerful) built in. When that happens, the Mojo will become less exclusive and less desirable. It is also not future proof because the minute you run a rogue app that requires root and it bricks it (or you brick it in any other way) the Mojo is essentially done for. Not having a way to recover from a brick is not something that is acceptable nowadays.
It's nice to see some news. The 4k support means they are doing something. Not hearing anything for almost 3 months since ouya announcement and kit Kat upgrade has made it hard to have faith in improvements, but it sounds like it may still be coming
What is future proof nowadays things are changing at a very fast pace but I'm in no rush couldn't be happier with my mojo there may be new hardware coming but its not out yet and there is nothing on the play store that this baby won't run at this time horse before the cart
zektor said:
It is also not future proof because the minute you run a rogue app that requires root and it bricks it (or you brick it in any other way) the Mojo is essentially done for. Not having a way to recover from a brick is not something that is acceptable nowadays.
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I agree about not being able to unbrick it ourselves is an issue.. but it doesn't make it less future proof IMO.
Having an active community helps.. but with android/nvidia in it, we/I can 'piggy back' on other groups for info ie shield, ouya, other T4 products.
As you may or may not know, there are very few pieces of technology that have stood the test of time.
I can name a few from personal experience here:
Commodore 64
MS Windows XP
Nokia N900 & Maemo(native linux)
The mojo & CTRLR are so versatile, I'm sure I'll still be using it well after it's product lifecycle... that's future proof!
gwaldo said:
I agree about not being able to unbrick it ourselves is an issue.. but it doesn't make it less future proof IMO.
Having an active community helps.. but with android/nvidia in it, we/I can 'piggy back' on other groups for info ie shield, ouya, other T4 products.
As you may or may not know, there are very few pieces of technology that have stood the test of time.
I can name a few from personal experience here:
Commodore 64
MS Windows XP
Nokia N900 & Maemo(native linux)
The mojo & CTRLR are so versatile, I'm sure I'll still be using it well after it's product lifecycle... that's future proof!
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It is funny you mention the C64. Not only do I know it...I lived it I ran a BBS for many years and was a part of a demo group in the mid-late 80's for the C64. I know all well how it stood the test of time, and still own and use one (and develop on it) today. It is well documented, I can fix them, mod them (now with SD2IEC and other neat stuff) and they will essentially last as long as the hardware does.
The Mojo IS a cool system, I have never said otherwise in regard to the hardware. But I honestly cannot say that it will stand any test of time...sadly. It is a flash in the pan as compared with the likes of the other items you mentioned, *especially* the C64. It almost feels like blasphemy to put the two in the same sentence
But, Mad Catz could definitely redeem themselves if they became a little more proactive in the area in which the system's target audience resides. Namely HERE, and in other forums concerning Android TV boxes. Maybe some of there techs can get involved in conversations, provide useful tips, and check with their senior technicians regarding in depth questions that we may have. As it stands now it is a ghost town. I wonder if the Mad Catz employees read these forums and chuckle at what suckers we are for buying in. I REALLY hope that is not the case.
zektor said:
It is funny you mention the C64. Not only do I know it...I lived it I ran a BBS for many years and was a part of a demo group in the mid-late 80's for the C64. I know all well how it stood the test of time, and still own and use one (and develop on it) today. It is well documented, I can fix them, mod them (now with SD2IEC and other neat stuff) and they will essentially last as long as the hardware does.
The Mojo IS a cool system, I have never said otherwise in regard to the hardware. But I honestly cannot say that it will stand any test of time...sadly. It is a flash in the pan as compared with the likes of the other items you mentioned, *especially* the C64. It almost feels like blasphemy to put the two in the same sentence
But, Mad Catz could definitely redeem themselves if they became a little more proactive in the area in which the system's target audience resides. Namely HERE, and in other forums concerning Android TV boxes. Maybe some of there techs can get involved in conversations, provide useful tips, and check with their senior technicians regarding in depth questions that we may have. As it stands now it is a ghost town. I wonder if the Mad Catz employees read these forums and chuckle at what suckers we are for buying in. I REALLY hope that is not the case.
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But you forget Zektor nothing nowadays is made to last, back in the 80 and 90 hardware was made to last 20 a 30 years, like the
Commodore 64 (and i have one with a floppy drive and a tape drive, and also had Commodore Amiga for years, still have a Amiga 2000 from
1987 and it still works.
But all the stuff that is now made is not made to last, they (the manufactures) want that you buy new hardware every view years, thats why
Android phones only get 1 a 1.5 years of updates if your lucky and then nothing, when a Samsung Galaxy S3 can run Android 4.4 KitKat easily.
AmigaWolf said:
But you forget Zektor nothing nowadays is made to last, back in the 80 and 90 hardware was made to last 20 a 30 years, like the
Commodore 64 (and i have one with a floppy drive and a tape drive, and also had Commodore Amiga for years, still have a Amiga 2000 from
1987 and it still works.
But all the stuff that is now made is not made to last, they (the manufactures) want that you buy new hardware every view years, thats why
Android phones only get 1 a 1.5 years of updates if your lucky and then nothing, when a Samsung Galaxy S3 can run Android 4.4 KitKat easily.
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Click to collapse
I can agree with you here. We live in a throw away society unfortunately. However, there are still items that are made to last, but they are "hidden gems" more or less. The vast majority of items are made like garbage, but every once in awhile you find something that is built like a rock. My Canon Powershot S80 comes to mind...which is actually quite a few years old now. Out of the items made today (in terms of these devices) the Minix is build VERY nicely, same with the Ouya. The Mojo is of decent quality, but it still feels like a hollow piece of plastic to me for some reason.
zektor said:
I can agree with you here. We live in a throw away society unfortunately. However, there are still items that are made to last, but they are "hidden gems" more or less. The vast majority of items are made like garbage, but every once in awhile you find something that is built like a rock. My Canon Powershot S80 comes to mind...which is actually quite a few years old now. Out of the items made today (in terms of these devices) the Minix is build VERY nicely, same with the Ouya. The Mojo is of decent quality, but it still feels like a hollow piece of plastic to me for some reason.
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Click to collapse
Computer cpu's are built to last, just in the past they got outdated so fast. These days you can get a new cpu and be good for a very long time and it will outlast any other piece of computer equipment. I've actually never had a cpu go bad. But at the non component level, most consumer electronics have very short shelf life.
AmigaWolf said:
But you forget Zektor nothing nowadays is made to last, back in the 80 and 90.
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I don't agree, there are still companies out there that make great and out lasting products!
They add extra features that others don't, yes it's more expensive but less disposable.. like the SID chip on the C64 and the BT4/USB3,etc on the MOJO... it didn't have to be there and it's really at the manufactures risk/expense because it's their profit margin that it effects.
But it gives the company integrity for not selling out like their cheaper competitors.
I think things now are built for the lowest common denominator and only the brave step out of that.
IE: mobile phones, In Australia, it's next to impossible to buy a new mobile with a keyboard
Anyway, it's interesting