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hi guys
my pro comes during next week and i wanted to check what size memory cards it'll take. If it supports Micro SD will it support Micro SD HC cards? What's the maximum size it'll support please?
thanks.
http://www.htc.com/europe/product.aspx?id=49936
see the photo number 6
so for £17 an 8GB SDHC card from play.com is my best option really? Any other suggestions?
That's even cheaper than Ebay!
I bought a 2GB Sandisk one from Play for my Artemis and it buggered my phone! Play were a bit arsey about replacing it, but did eventually after a load of emails and phone calls
8 gig rox!
I have 2 8 gigs that I switch back and forth...it was kind of funny to use my phone as an external hard drive via usb! The phone also has disk mode, faster communication to the sd card...
Its almost sick as we keep getting more and more memory! pretty soon we will get rid of moving part drives and everything will be memory!
I've bought an 8gb sandisk class 6 with p&p for around £27 off ebay.
Don't forget that there isn't just size, but speed as well.
As far as I know, the current 16gb cards are class 2, even though some places are stating 4. (I've not come across anybody that can prove they have a class 4) And sandisk isn't even showing details themselves yet.
16 gb microsd class 4 does not exist.
there is only class 2 for this size, the rest are fake!
class 2 should be enough for regular user though...but then again, who on this forum is a regular user? )
I have a Sandisk 16GB Class 2 card - works perfectly.
Does anyone know what Device Class the Touch Pro is?
There is no need for a class 4 card if the unit is a class 2...
Is there any good benchmarking programs for reading SDcards on WM6.1?
16gb, saying class 4 £46.95 http://www.memorybits.co.uk/shop/mi...23-in-1-multi-card-sdsdq016ge11mplus23in/9078
have ordered from them before no issues
No one is selling Class 4 currently, their information is incorrect - many others are similarly stating Class 4 but shipping Class 2. Class 4 is not yet available.
zeb crs said:
Is there any good benchmarking programs for reading SDcards on WM6.1?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use Pocket Mechanic on my Tytn II (still running WM6.0); it has a pretty good benchmark suite. I ran it on a SanDisk 16 GB Class 2 I picked up the other day and got write speeds of 1.3 MB/sec. The same test on a SanDisk 8GB Class 4 gives a write speed of 2.05 MB/sec. Those numbers suggest to me that the device is the main impediment to performance -- I should have seen at least 2MB/sec and 4MB/sec respectively (that's what Class 2 & Class 4 mean).
And that's a Tytn II but I'm very interested in what difference it makes in a Touch Pro..
my choice is between the:
Sandisk Mobile Ultra microSDHC 8GB (Think it's class 6) (€38,50)
and the
Sandsik microSDHC 8GB (Which is class 2) (€24,95)
And I really don't know which one to go for.. I somewhere found a Nokia N95-3 review which told that the difference was noticable between the 2 cards.. but I don't know if it's true for the TP..
Any help on this matter?
You guys really need to steer clear of Ebay for memory, to many fakes of rubbish quality, I have used both of these places before and they are excellent and reliable, I just bought a genuine Class 6 sandisk 8GB micro SD plus a keychain USB adapter for £26.50 delivered, from the first place
www.picstop.co.uk
www.7dayshop.co.uk
The pro is class 4 or better i tried wth c1 c2 and c4 cards c4 works the fastest almost 16mb transfer speed via the phone that is not bad.... a full os flash from c4 card take just 5 min nbh image size 154mb so talking about a heavy-weight os. but the same progress with my 4 gb c2 card take over 10min ???? funny
The SanDisk 8GB Mobile Ultra class 6 is superb!!
I've bought this Sandisk micro SDHC 8GB class 6 at 'The phone House' for about 40 euro. The class 4 device was 10 euro less expensive. Yes expensive but worth every cent. I've used several brands the past 6 years and I'll stick to SanDisk: reliable no issues at all and fast!
At this moment 16GB is available but only class 2. Don't buy them because you don't want a bottle neck in your overall system performance!!
Woot has 4gb MicroSD cards for $11 shipped. I just snagged two, but hurry the deal is only good for one day.
i actually emailed HTC about this and got the following email as a reply
Code:
Good Evening,
Thank you for your enquiry about the HTC Touch Pro.
The Touch Pro has been tested with a 16gb MicroSDHC card and it works fine, as for 32gb and 64gb I cannot be sure, as they have not been released yet. More information bout the compatibility of these cards will be available after they have been released and tested.
Please do not reply to this email as this email address is not monitored for replies.
Best regards,
Thomas Fisher
HTC Europe
ive also purchased this
http://www.mymemory.co.uk/Micro-SDHC/Kingston/Kingston-8GB-Micro-SD-(SDHC)-Card---Class-4
from here
http://www.mymemory.co.uk/Micro-SDHC
Heya,
I'm sure this topic has been discussed but I can't seem to find a clear answer. It's obvious that the HTC Hero is somewhat temperamental with certain makes and classes of Micro SD, or the assumed Class 6 isn't always as fast as people hope.
In my case the 2gb stock card is just going to be too small so I'm keen to purchase the biggest card the phone will support (which is 16gb?) or 8gb. Is there a card in particular which stands out as being the best (in terms of speed) for the HTC Hero at these sizes?
Thanks
i think the biggest possible micro sdhc card is 32gb, but i´m not sure and it was not worth to me so i bought a 16gb and it works perfect
Are there 32GB micro sd cards available?
theodore80 said:
Are there 32GB micro sd cards available?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
find Sandisk 32GB micro SDHC is already available for pre-order, but no specific date of release.
I just bought a Sandisk 16GB micro sd (class 2), appears faster then the 2gb stock card.
Try to search some technical reviews of different SD card with statistics. Much better than relying on "CLASS".
Class is important
Hi, I would say that in a price/performance view you should go for a 8GB class 6 card right now. The class says how fast the card can transfer data. Class 2 does 2MB/s. Class 6 does 6MB/s.
32GB is the limit of the SDHC format. I have 8GB now and I guess I upgrade to 32GB later when prices get better.
for sandisk, class 2 = class 4, class 4 = class 6.
as i know, some class 2 is actually much faster than the standard minimum speed.
I have an 8 gig in my phone but its having trouble rescanning the card i have like 4 gigs of music on it and I think thats too much for the phone to scan, that would be my only thing to maybe consider.
Ps if anyone has a solution for my problem that would be great haha
Unless you despareately need to store A LOT of data on your phone get the fastest card rather than the largest.
8GB SanDisk Class 6 card is about £17.
16GB SanDisk Class 6 is nearly £50.
Prices will drop rapidly so for now I'd go for 8GB at 6MBPS over 16GB or 32GB at a lower speed.
Hi - Following on from this, has anyone used a 32GB card and proven it works. I'd hate to get one and find out that it's incompatible with the G2 Hero.
32GB microSD cards are out?!
ozym said:
Unless you despareately need to store A LOT of data on your phone get the fastest card rather than the largest.
8GB SanDisk Class 6 card is about £17.
16GB SanDisk Class 6 is nearly £50.
Prices will drop rapidly so for now I'd go for 8GB at 6MBPS over 16GB or 32GB at a lower speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The 16GB Class 6 you list doesn't seem like that much of a stretch to me, it is a wee bit over twice the price, but not ridciulously so (i.e 3x the price). It is the best MicroSDHC card that money can buy, and the transcend one I've got is nice and fast (pretty sure it was less than £50 too, now that I think about it).
cdg1 said:
Hi - Following on from this, has anyone used a 32GB card and proven it works. I'd hate to get one and find out that it's incompatible with the G2 Hero.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thecodemonk said:
32GB microSD cards are out?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nup, no 32GB MicroSDHC cards as yet fellas, all the sites I've seen, list the Sandisk one for Pre-Order, but its been like that for 6 months, so maybe they're planning for a 2010 release?
Err is that spam?
any offical word or tests showing that a class 6 will work to its full speed... rumor I have heard is the hardware in the hero (us version) will utilize up to class 2 speeds.
(Not to say a class 6 wont work. just that it will only be reading and writing at class 2 speeds) Can anybody confirm?
I can maintain 6-7MB/s write speak to my 16GB Class 6 which is Class 6 speeds. Not as fast as I'd like (SD speeds), but worlds better than the Nokia N95 8GB I had before which was limited to 800-1000KB/s (only USB 2.0 full speed as opposed to hi speed).
qwiksand, is that from your hero or from a card reader?
I am trying to find the source now but cant rummage up my history; i swear i read an email from HTC saying the card reader in the Hero was a class 2 reader, thus nullifying any performance increase from a class 4 or 6 card.
hmm, you're making me doubt myself now!
I'll do a speed test today both in the phone, and out.
izanagi said:
I am trying to find the source now but cant rummage up my history; i swear i read an email from HTC saying the card reader in the Hero was a class 2 reader, thus nullifying any performance increase from a class 4 or 6 card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Likewise,I'm sure I read an official source saying that it would only make use of 16GB irrespective of the size of the card. Sounds more dubious but I'm not going to risk it with my own money!!
Any updates? Want to get one on black friday
As what i know G3 Hero only support up to 16gb sd/sdhc card.
As the class on those card are for writing speed & reading speed is all the same.
edit: i have found some news frm somewhere...
Good Morning Frank,
Thank you for taking the time to contact HTC America Technical Support via E-Mail with your inquiry about what class of SD card to use in your Sprint HTC Hero. My name is A.J. and I will be happy to assist you today.
If you are looking to purchase an SD card that the device will read at its full native speed you will need to purchase a class 2. The device will read a class 4 but not at its native speeds.
Frank, if you have any future questions about your device please feel free to visit HTC - Touch Phone, PDA Phone, Smartphone, Mobile Computer and send us another e-mail. You may also enjoy HTC Smartphone Wiki - HTC, which has a plethora of information on HTC devices, including the Sprint HTC Hero! I would also like to invite you to participate in a customer satisfaction survey located at HTC Online Survey I hope you have a great day!
HTC America Technical Support
A.J.
According to HTC's website the Hero can use SD 2.0, SD 2.0 is another way of saying SDHC, just like devices that are compatible with standard SD, the device is expandable to the limit of the format. Therefore, the Hero CAN do 32GB because it is SDHC compatible. Only problem is the 32GB Cards have yet to be mass produced.
I am still deliberating wether to get the HD2. One thing that worries me is the quite limited storage capacity with the microSD card. As far as I understand the microSD (SDHC) standard only supports up to 32GB capacities. I know 32GB is quite large, but I anticipate my needs will grow.
My question is - will HD2 be able to use the 64Gb, 128GB .... cards that come out probably one year from now.
Thanks for your help
Seeing 32GB cards aren't available yet, and we've been waiting for them for like 2 years, I'm pretty sure you'll have changed your HD2 before 64GB cards are here
But to the question, no idea. That would depend on whether drivers that support the new format extension are made available.
I believe 64GB is here in couple of months. Blackberry rumours are that new devices will come with support for 64GB microsd cards.
http://forums.crackberry.com/f2/32-64gb-micro-sd-cards-275113/
My friend ordered 2 usb sticks 64GB - 22USD each but I haven't seen them yet (I hope he gets them). That tells me that prices are still in freefall.
Sandisk is actually developing 128GB micorsd card: http://www.physorg.com/news143893844.html
I guess the problem is not with the sheer size of the microsd (ok that is important if you have a huge music library or movies or something else that needs to be on your phone all the time), but how fast it is while copying. If you put it in your phone and connect usb, how fast is it in disk mode? 20 MB/s?
HD2 has a microSDHD slot, which supports a maximum capacity of 32GB - or will it be able to use microSDXC cards? Is's probably more than a "firmware" upgrade from SDHC to SDXC.
I agree read and write speed are very important to - has anyone done any tests on the speed of the microSD slot?
20MB/s seems optimistic...
It's microSDHC... which means a maximum of 32GB.
microSDXC cards with more than 32GB will NOT work.
luxusxda said:
Is's probably more than a "firmware" upgrade from SDHC to SDXC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, SD to SDHC was a firmware upgrade away for many common controllers. But I've just done a little search and it seems that it might not be the case for SDHC to SDXC indeed.
luxusxda said:
I agree read and write speed are very important to - has anyone done any tests on the speed of the microSD slot?
20MB/s seems optimistic...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It obviously depends a lot on the card used, some will take 3MB/s while some will take 20MB/s...
It does seem that it's a bit slower than a usual card reader, around 5MB/s with my class 6 8GB Sandisk card vs ~12 in a good card reader.
does HD2 support micro SDHC 64GB card?
Hi,
Here is a real eBay link to buy 64GB Micro SDHC card.
So we can put availability-problem aside.
Is it written in Micro SDHC specification that the limit is 32GB?
I dont see any 32GB size limit for Micro SDHC.
I would like to buy 64GB Micro SdHC
Can someone please tell me whether HD2 supports 64GB Micro SDHC?
Thanks in advance
Edit: confirmed that 64GB card works and its in use over a couple of years.
kilrah said:
Seeing 32GB cards aren't available yet, and we've been waiting for them for like 2 years, I'm pretty sure you'll have changed your HD2 before 64GB cards are here
But to the question, no idea. That would depend on whether drivers that support the new format extension are made available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well if you do buy and try it, please tell us if it works
Just check in Google and don´t let Yourself be misled by wishful thinking: 32 GB mSD cards were announced by Sandisk in Feb 2009 and still we have to wait for shipping them by expansys or easydevices.co.uk until end of May 2010, maybe June..........
Do You really think an ebay-offer of 64GB is serious ? It is only that You BELIEVE in this offer since You badly want it ! It is like believing in a religion because You HOPE that someone else might tackle with Your problems and hopes. But there is NO such other, because it does not EXIST, as well as 64 GB mSD do not exist and will not exist for the next years.
Nobody will develop them, ´cause there will be no market for them ! When 64 GB + mSD cards can be built at a reasonable prize nobody would buy them ´cause everyone of the possible customers (esp. the people HERE = early adopters = tech freaks) will already have changed their devices 2-3 times to devices with mSDXC-standards (such as HTC HD3, HD4, HD5 .......... )
Don´t BELIEVE and HOPE, just KNOW and be REALISTIC: there will be no 64GB mSD-card .............
troed said:
Just check in Google and don´t let Yourself be misled by wishful thinking: 32 GB mSD cards were announced by Sandisk in Feb 2009 and still we have to wait for shipping them by expansys or easydevices.co.uk until end of May 2010, maybe June..........
Do You really think an ebay-offer of 64GB is serious ? It is only that You BELIEVE in this offer since You badly want it ! It is like believing in a religion because You HOPE that someone else might tackle with Your problems and hopes. But there is NO such other, because it does not EXIST, as well as 64 GB mSD do not exist and will not exist for the next years.
Nobody will develop them, ´cause there will be no market for them ! When 64 GB + mSD cards can be built at a reasonable prize nobody would buy them ´cause everyone of the possible customers (esp. the people HERE = early adopters = tech freaks) will already have changed their devices 2-3 times to devices with mSDXC-standards (such as HTC HD3, HD4, HD5 .......... )
Don´t BELIEVE and HOPE, just KNOW and be REALISTIC: there will be no 64GB mSD-card .............
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just wanted to look for a bigger card than the stock 16GB, even a 32GB would do, nothing particular about 64GB, nor is looking for higher capacity card any pressing need.
I am least bothered to think so much about manufacturing trouble before looking for a higher capacity card, I dont give a damn about manufacturing trouble if any.
I just searched higher capacity card than 16GB and checked at one which happened to be 64GB.
There is no need to involve big things like hope or belief in something so unimportant or cheap as a SD card.
hello
Is there someone who really tested 64 or 128 GB SDXC, on HD2?
If i remenber well, 64gb is not possible
sent from my HD2 using XDA App
Yes, 64GB microSD works on HD2...
I've learnt to never say never...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1414126
SanDisk Mobile Ultra MicroSDXC 64GB
I installed the Tytung ICS build on a SanDisk Mobile Ultra MicroSDXC 64GB.
Works fine! Just needs to be farmatted in Fat32
Looking to get myself a 32gb card.
Just wondering if the play uses SD or SDHC memory cards, or ok with either?
it uses microsd and microsdhc
regular sd card wont do
Yeah, obviously I know it's micro.
Just wasn't sure about the sdhc.
Cheers
It's ok with both sd and sdhc but I think it's not compatible with sdxc (if you'd ever like to get to 2TB maybe it can come in an update, My htc wizard got sdhc support with an unofficial driver update).
A 32 gig card will work just fine with the Play.
Bitter Crimson said:
A 32 gig card will work just fine with the Play.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I heard there's problems with class 10 32 gig micros on android phones. Is this true?
i'm curious about this, some applications wont work with a class 2 speed sd.
sd or sdhc would do. you should be more worried about the speed. as for now you should think of either getting a class 6 16gb or class 4 32gb (if you could find one).
bewrong666 said:
i'm curious about this, some applications wont work with a class 2 speed sd.
sd or sdhc would do. you should be more worried about the speed. as for now you should think of either getting a class 6 16gb or class 4 32gb (if you could find one).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was thinking of getting this class 10 32gb micro, Fast enough?
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220547&Tpk=32gb micro sd
I have class 10 32gb, works fine on xperia play.
The only problem android has, is you cant format 32gb cards on your phone. But most, if not all cards come pre-formatted anyway. Otherwise you have to connect the card with an adapter to your pc to format it.
*edit
You can format 32gb cards on your phone, but it wont format properly and you will have issues. I did with my old phone, it couldnt scan the card properly and it would reboot while trying to scan.
emann56 said:
I was thinking of getting this class 10 32gb micro, Fast enough?
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220547&Tpk=32gb micro sd
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
now that's something
read most of the reviews: crashes and corrupts the files, some even only last within 24 hours i'll stick with the class 4 32gb for now
even with the sandisk 32gb class 2 cards, i already replaced 2 of them when they crapped out on me
theclueless said:
even with the sandisk 32gb class 2 cards, i already replaced 2 of them when they crapped out on me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
haven't read anything about this. and the reviews for a kingston 32gb class 4 on the net has been great so far. but if this will be the case i might just go for a 16gb class 6
Ok, so I got a 32gb card, moved all of my stuff off my 16gb (about 14 gig) to my pc. Took about 20 minutes.
Put my 32 gig in, formatted it & transferred everything over.
Took about 3 hours & when I put it in my play it's saying there's 28 gig left & hardly anything I set to transfer has actually gone to the card ! ?
Do a full format and not a quick format.
Ive seen a class 10 32gb micro sd card for 50 quid, but im worried that its too cheap and might not last long.
Sent from my Xperia Play using Tapatalk
Memory cards are very reliable IF you bought the original ones and not those unbranded fake cards.
I've never had issues with ALL my memory cards, from the SmartMedia, SD, MS stick and Compact Flash cards used in my Palm and Sony Clie PDAs, my DSLR and micro 4/3 digital cameras, PSPs and DSL and all the way to the microSD cards used in my smartphones and tablets. I purchased them all from local reputable shops and never bought any from online stores. Can't remember the exact figures but I probably had a total of 30 to 40 cards here in my house.
The problem I see is those cards that are found on online shops that are unbranded (anything not Sandisk, Kingston, Lexar, Panasonic etc are all semi-fakes). Just imagine that Sandisk the world's largest NAND Flash memory maker has yet to come out with a 32GB Class 10 microSD as of now and you can already find some smaller unknown companies selling them at very cheap prices since many months back?
Sometimes if a deal is too good to be true, IT IS too good to be true! Of course if you still proceed to get them due to their ridiculously cheap prices, the risk is all yours. For me, I just buy the originals at original prices and not regret it later, my data is much more important to me than saving tens of bucks.
For some reason, there are quite a lot of fake Kingston cards on the market so beware.
Various issues with the fake/unbranded cards are:
1. Reliability
2. On a 32GB card, you may actually get only 4 or 8GB storage, some tricks were added in these fake cards such that once you copied beyond the 4 or 8GB capacity, it automatically loops back internally to overwrite the oldest copied data.
3. Some 32GB Class 10 cards only had Class 2 speeds.
Another advice is that for smartphone usage, you may be better off getting Class 2 or 4 cards rather than higher class cards. This is because although the class 6 or 10 cards can have sequential readings and writings at their stated class speeds, in terms of random access of data on the card they may actually be slower than Class 2 and 4 cards. In other words, you'll get more lags using higher Class cards.
Here's a test I did with a Patriot LX Series Class 10 32GB Micro SDHC
recce5 said:
Another advice is that for smartphone usage, you may be better off getting Class 2 or 4 cards rather than higher class cards. This is because although the class 6 or 10 cards can have sequential readings and writings at their stated class speeds, in terms of random access of data on the card they may actually be slower than Class 2 and 4 cards. In other words, you'll get more lags using higher Class cards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You sir are correct! My Patriot 32gb micro class 10 lags alot When playing the FPSE the game lags too much but with the micro sd card that came with the Xperia play runs perfect I'm gonna return the card and just get a Sandisk 32gb class 2 from newegg.
Recce5
After doing a test of manually copying content to the card I believe I have fallen foul to buying a cheapo card covered by your point 2.
I've bought quite a few cheapo cards back from my old K750i & PSP days but this is the 1st one I've been stung with.
Live & learn etc !
And I don't mean for installing a ROM onto (I use NAND builds)--just for storage purposes.
Been looking at upgrading my slow 8GB storage card to a faster and larger one (16 or 32GB), and I can't seem to find what is going to be compatible and what will not. For example, I was going to get a 16GB PNY Class 10 card, but one of the first user review comments was that someone got one for their rooted HTC HD2, and the card would not allow the phone to boot (however, it worked fine with their camera).
I'm not sure if I should go with SanDisk cards or Samsung cards, or PNY, Class 6 maximum, Class 10 maximum, or what have you. Some are on better deals than others, but clearly price is secondary to compatibility.
Is there some sort of a master list of compatible cards that I've missed in my search? Many thanks!!!
Photoelectric said:
And I don't mean for installing a ROM onto (I use NAND builds)--just for storage purposes.
Been looking at upgrading my slow 8GB storage card to a faster and larger one (16 or 32GB), and I can't seem to find what is going to be compatible and what will not. For example, I was going to get a 16GB PNY Class 10 card, but one of the first user review comments was that someone got one for their rooted HTC HD2, and the card would not allow the phone to boot (however, it worked fine with their camera).
I'm not sure if I should go with SanDisk cards or Samsung cards, or PNY, Class 6 maximum, Class 10 maximum, or what have you. Some are on better deals than others, but clearly price is secondary to compatibility.
Is there some sort of a master list of compatible cards that I've missed in my search? Many thanks!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
in my opinion it would be samsung then sandisk
i currently have a 32gig class 6 sandisk card and it is really good
Kameirus said:
in my opinion it would be samsung then sandisk
i currently have a 32gig class 6 sandisk card and it is really good
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you. I do respect Samsung a lot, based on personal experience with desktop RAM, but my brief research into Sandisk offerings have returned questionable results: some people say that advertised speeds don't match real transfer speeds.
What about the PNY cards though--I'm still unclear what makes a card compatible or not. Is it down to individual firmware or is there just some basic limits for HTC HD2 Leo (rooted) -- like no UHS cards. In theory, those PNY Class 10 cards seem like they should be okay, but that one review makes me wonder if the user did something incorrectly, or whether there was a true incompatibility.
Been looking at Samsung cards, and they come in a few varieties: regular, "plus", and "pro". The first two are older, I guess, since they are stamped with "class 6" but differ in their speeds.
The "regular" version for up to 24MB/s:
http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/memory-storage/MB-MSAGB/AM
The "plus" version with "UHS-I Interface" for up to 48MB/s:
http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/memory-storage/MB-MPAGB/AM
And then there's one labeled "class 10" that is the "pro" version, supporting up to 70MB/s:
http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/memory-storage/MB-MGAGB/AM
I imagine the regular version is just fine, but would the faster two cards simply not work with HD2? PNY Class 10 cards are better priced, but again, I have no idea if they will work. Any pointers into how I can research micro SDHC card compatibility would be greatly appreciated! The manual and phone description simply state that it is SD 2.0 compatible up to 32GB, which doesn't help with my search, since some of those cards appear to not work well (hearsay).