<<SOLVED>> The moto G Opamp is not very efficient. It struggles to go down to 2Ohm stable. This means average earbud type headphones rated at 16Ohms. will have hiss and other artifacts. Higher impedance headphones. 40-70Ohms have much better sq. Much above 70Ohms and I suspect the Moto G won't be powerful enough to drive them.... so, that's the sweet spot!
Hey,
Since I updated to kitkta4.4.2 I notice there is a significant background hiss listening with headphones.
As soon as you use an app that activates the audio jack the hiss kicks in, it is constant, not volume dependent. If you turn the volume down to zero, but the app keeps the sound output active the hiss remains.
when the app is closed, the hiss abruptly stops (presumably when the sound API deactivates the inbuilt opamp to save battery)
I'm about 90% sure this wasn't present under 4.3 or was far less noticeable.
I'm not being picky either, this is bad enough that it would make using the phone as a walkman at a low or moderate volume unpleasant. From experience I'd estimate the hiss at approx -20dB.. this is similar to the hiss you would hear from your average desktop PC fan at idle under your desk..
can anyone test this too, on 4.3 and 4.4.2?
Oh, and use earbud headphones or good closed cup ones. Open phones, unless you are somewhere very quiet won't give a good idea of the hiss..
thanks
Can confirm this on 4.4.2, too bad I didn't see your post before updating, as I don't really remember how it was on 4.3 :/
You don't actually have to use earphones, it's noticeable through the speaker, too (well I'm in my room alone and I put my ear close to it). However, I wouldn't say it's very significant - when using earphones I can hear it when muted, on the 1st bar after mute; on the 2nd you can't really say if you hear it or is it your imagination; and on the 3rd bar it's unnoticeable.
I can't notice any hiss in 4.3, even if I use a headphone amp. No clicking sounds either when the opamp turns on.
Sent from my XT1032 using xda app-developers app
UnknownAX said:
I can't notice any hiss in 4.3, even if I use a headphone amp. No clicking sounds either when the opamp turns on.
Sent from my XT1032 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is what I was worried about. I didnt notice any hiss before either, and I had it connected to a car stereo so would amplify the issue (if it was there).
maybe something did change in the audio settings/drivers then. I have already tried dissablying all the dsp stuff with no luck, still the hiss and click when the opamp switches on/off.
Maybe it was there before though, and it's bad luck with the phone, rather than the OS version.
I have got UK Retail 4.4.2 and I have tried to replicate this. I have tried YouTube, Spotify Play Music and TuneIn. I do not experience a hiss!
UnknownAX said:
I can't notice any hiss in 4.3, even if I use a headphone amp. No clicking sounds either when the opamp turns on.
Sent from my XT1032 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dhilluk said:
I have got UK Retail 4.4.2 and I have tried to replicate this. I have tried YouTube, Spotify Play Music and TuneIn. I do not experience a hiss!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Under 4.3 to save battery I disabled apps I wasn't using, including the Audio Effects app, and google play. When you disable them it forces you to 'uninstall updates' which I didnt realise at the time, but I think may have been specific to the moto g, as you cannot redownload them from playstore, or update them.
Would someone be so kind as to upload the FULL apk of their google play and and Sound Effects, from their stock 4.4.2 build?
Im pretty sure this is down to the software API that activates the opamp. (as it is very distinct), it even happens when you activate audio by using the rocker to increase the ringtone volume!?!?!???
It sounds like listening to a really cheap mp3 player with a low S/N ratio...
** edit I mean 'Play Music' not 'google play'
Hi,
I actually just registered to say this was very much present on my moto g on android 4.3 and is still the same on KitKat. It definitely sounds like a cheap mp3 player. Does anyone know of a fix?
Thanks
helppme said:
Hey,
Since I updated to kitkta4.4.2 I notice there is a significant background hiss listening with headphones.
As soon as you use an app that activates the audio jack the hiss kicks in, it is constant, not volume dependent. If you turn the volume down to zero, but the app keeps the sound output active the hiss remains.
when the app is closed, the hiss abruptly stops (presumably when the sound API deactivates the inbuilt opamp to save battery)
I'm about 90% sure this wasn't present under 4.3 or was far less noticeable.
I'm not being picky either, this is bad enough that it would make using the phone as a walkman at a low or moderate volume unpleasant. From experience I'd estimate the hiss at approx -20dB.. this is similar to the hiss you would hear from your average desktop PC fan at idle under your desk..
can anyone test this too, on 4.3 and 4.4.2?
Oh, and use earbud headphones or good closed cup ones. Open phones, unless you are somewhere very quiet won't give a good idea of the hiss..
thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
motg-gm said:
Hi,
I actually just registered to say this was very much present on my moto g on android 4.3 and is still the same on KitKat. It definitely sounds like a cheap mp3 player. Does anyone know of a fix?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now this is getting weird. I think I'll install the ota to see how mine behaves. The G's audio quality decent enough imo. Probably above Android smartphone average. But what I like the most is that it's 100% silent, regardless of the volume setting, headphones or the amp.
Having said that, I will still get a USB DAC solution for it, which luckily has native support on both stock ROMs.
UnknownAX said:
Now this is getting weird. I think I'll install the ota to see how mine behaves. The G's audio quality decent enough imo. Probably above Android smartphone average. But what I like the most is that it's 100% silent, regardless of the volume setting, headphones or the amp.
Having said that, I will still get a USB DAC solution for it, which luckily has native support on both stock ROMs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is there anyway to update the phone without wifi ?? ...my friend as unlimited data but no wifi and she really wants to update ?
boe323 said:
Is there anyway to update the phone without wifi ?? ...my friend as unlimited data but no wifi and she really wants to update ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see how this is on-topic, but of course, you can download the update either on Wi-Fi or mobile data.
I don't know what you mean with "hiss", but since I updated mine (today - uk), i have started to notice some "clicks" in musics, that i didn't have before.
I was using PlayerPro, turned off the equalizer, uninstalled and reinstalled it again, and it was solved.
Google music, had no issues.
RickPinto said:
I don't know what you mean with "hiss", but since I updated mine (today - uk), i have started to notice some "clicks" in musics, that i didn't have before.
I was using PlayerPro, turned off the equalizer, uninstalled and reinstalled it again, and it was solved.
Google music, had no issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
by hiss, I mean hiss. It is probably around 18KHz, and is similar tot he sound of RF interference on a stereo (alsmost like the snow screen sound on a tv).
It is not volume dependent so it is defenitely downstream from the DAC, and must be the opamp or downsteram from the opamp in the phone. It is most likely from a poor ground some where in the audio path (assuming the opamp isn't awful, anyone know the chip?). It could be due to the single board set up of the Moto G mainboard design. I'm guessing here, but if the PCB has the audio channel close to any of the ground of power channels, this would explain my hiss. If it is built to tight tollerance, this could also explain why some people have it, others don't.
In laymans terms, I'm saying the audio signal is 'dirty. If anyone has every used a PC with crappy audio on the motherboard, they will know exactly what this problem is like. When no program is using the audio driver, the board puts the audio to 'sleep', when you open a program that uses that audio driver, the audio wakes up and you get some hiss, noise through the audio and pc speakers. This is exactly what I experience with my moto G.
if im honest, it's unlistenable, however I'm a bit of an audiophile so I can appreciate for most people they won't see it as a problem..
helppme said:
if im honest, it's unlistenable, however I'm a bit of an audiophile so I can appreciate for most people they won't see it as a problem..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I found 4.3 to already be noisy with the hiss when using my earphones, which have a low attenuation and so even low volumes sound loud on them. To get around this problem I bought an attenuator which connects between the phone and the earphones. Then I set the phone audio to maximum, and reduced the volume using the attenuator. Setting the phone audio to loud means the hiss volume is low compared to the volume of the sound coming out of the phone.
This is the attenuator I use:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008EWP07E
RickPinto said:
I don't know what you mean with "hiss", but since I updated mine (today - uk), i have started to notice some "clicks" in musics, that i didn't have before.
I was using PlayerPro, turned off the equalizer, uninstalled and reinstalled it again, and it was solved.
Google music, had no issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
superusr said:
I found 4.3 to already be noisy with the hiss when using my earphones, which have a low attenuation and so even low volumes sound loud on them. To get around this problem I bought an attenuator which connects between the phone and the earphones. Then I set the phone audio to maximum, and reduced the volume using the attenuator. Setting the phone audio to loud means the hiss volume is low compared to the volume of the sound coming out of the phone.
This is the attenuator I use:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008EWP07E
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is a possibility, but its not ideal... sadly this is looking like a hardware issue not a software one though as if it was software, I'd expect it to be upstream of the opamp. The fact your attenuator solution works, is more evidence this is a downstream issue . (as implification induced noise increases with the square of the volume (assuming a logarithmic volume scale))
I'm on 4.4. I notice a slight hiss when music is coming out of the phones speaker, though its completely undetectable if the phone is at around half volume. No hiss when coming through headphones.
Sent from my XT1034 using xda app-developers app
Ravinxx said:
I'm on 4.4. I notice a slight hiss when music is coming out of the phones speaker, though its completely undetectable if the phone is at around half volume. No hiss when coming through headphones.
Sent from my XT1034 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please can you test something, with some sensitive in ear headphones (or in a quiet room if they are normal headphones.)
>Connect headphones to phone
>Make sure ALL apps are closed.
>turn the phones ring volume to zero
>you should hear silence.(regardless of what headphone volume is)
>On the home screen, Press the Up volume rocker 3 times quite quickly.
>On my phone, the headphones go from silent to Hiss, then I hear the 'Beep'.....'Beep' of the volume increase on top of the hiss. Wait 2 seconds after the second beep and you hear the Hiss abruptly stop, and you are back to silent.
I have this problem with all audio activity on the phone, but the ringtone volume trick is the easiest way to demonstrate it.
helppme said:
Please can you test something, with some sensitive in ear headphones (or in a quiet room if they are normal headphones.)
>Connect headphones to phone
>Make sure ALL apps are closed.
>turn the phones ring volume to zero
>you should hear silence.(regardless of what headphone volume is)
>On the home screen, Press the Up volume rocker 3 times quite quickly.
>On my phone, the headphones go from silent to Hiss, then I hear the 'Beep'.....'Beep' of the volume increase on top of the hiss. Wait 2 seconds after the second beep and you hear the Hiss abruptly stop, and you are back to silent.
I have this problem with all audio activity on the phone, but the ringtone volume trick is the easiest way to demonstrate it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or even easier, just press the volume down or up button once in any direction with headphones plugged in. Regardless of what it was set to and becomes set to, you will hear a faint background hum/hiss be emitted through the headphones for a second. This is fairly normal on any phone and even most audio devices. I don't know what you expect really in a smart phone that costs £129 in the UK. It is a compact environment to build so much electronics into and will never be a hifi device.
I tested with 3 phones on my desk right now and they all have a hiss when you first do something to make audio come through the headphones like quickly play and then pause a track. In fact, one phone (Samsung Galaxy Ace Plus) has not only a hiss, but a screech/high pitched whine as well. All of these "noises" that are detectable, become undetectable when volume of anything is turned up past the first or second bar anyway.
Ravinxx said:
I'm on 4.4. I notice a slight hiss when music is coming out of the phones speaker, though its completely undetectable if the phone is at around half volume. No hiss when coming through headphones.
Sent from my XT1034 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
coursemyhorse said:
Or even easier, just press the volume down or up button once in any direction with headphones plugged in. Regardless of what it was set to and becomes set to, you will hear a faint background hum/hiss be emitted through the headphones for a second. This is fairly normal on any phone and even most audio devices. I don't know what you expect really in a smart phone that costs £129 in the UK. It is a compact environment to build so much electronics into and will never be a hifi device.
I tested with 3 phones on my desk right now and they all have a hiss when you first do something to make audio come through the headphones like quickly play and then pause a track. In fact, one phone (Samsung Galaxy Ace Plus) has not only a hiss, but a screech/high pitched whine as well. All of these "noises" that are detectable, become undetectable when volume of anything is turned up past the first or second bar anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a fair point, and I agree is not surprising given the phones price. I think the reason I have posed this question was to a) determine if it could be software related (4.3 vs 4.4.2) but It doesn't looks so. b) Is it universal, or could be a slight lottery and maybe my phone is worse than others. As some people say they definitely have no issue. (granted it could be subjective)
Also, I would say, although it is present in most devices to some degree, it is noticeably worse on this phone than any other I have had. Multiple sony erricsons, galaxy Ace, Nokias.. And my last phone Galaxy S2 had extremely clean audio production. (i compared directly with moto g).
I do concede I am an audio snob though, so don't like listening to poor quality. I never really expected to use the moto g for music, but would have been a nice to have.
helppme said:
This is a fair point, and I agree is not surprising given the phones price. I think the reason I have posed this question was to a) determine if it could be software related (4.3 vs 4.4.2) but It doesn't looks so. b) Is it universal, or could be a slight lottery and maybe my phone is worse than others. As some people say they definitely have no issue. (granted it could be subjective)
Also, I would say, although it is present in most devices to some degree, it is noticeably worse on this phone than any other I have had. Multiple sony erricsons, galaxy Ace, Nokias.. And my last phone Galaxy S2 had extremely clean audio production. (i compared directly with moto g).
I do concede I am an audio snob though, so don't like listening to poor quality. I never really expected to use the moto g for music, but would have been a nice to have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, it seems to me too that you are a bit more on the audio than most people
By the way, I was wondering up to which levels can you really say that you hear the hiss? As I've said before, for me it's definite hiss when muted and 1st level, weird feeling on the 2nd and I can't hear it from the 3rd.
theArchitektas said:
Yeah, it seems to me too that you are a bit more on the audio than most people
By the way, I was wondering up to which levels (just the volume slider, no music) can you really say that you hear the hiss? As I've said before, for me it's definite hiss when muted and 1st level, weird feeling on the 2nd and I can't hear it from the 3rd.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends on the music. pop music which has a lot of mids and highs, the hiss isnt noticible from notch 4 up maybe.
Quiet music, classical, R&B & hihop with a lot of bass beats but not many highs, you can hear the background his up to maybe 2 notches off max. But its acceptable from maybe half volume.
tbh it's more of a shame than an issue. I didn't expect this to replace a decent mp3 player, would just have been convenient is all.
I feel my headphones sound significantly lower on latest January update.
Did anyone else notice this? Did they do it to deal with the "hissing" issue some people had?
gordito_gr said:
I feel my headphones sound significantly lower on latest January update.
Did anyone else notice this? Did they do it to deal with the "hissing" issue some people had?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So are the hissing issue gone?
soralz said:
So are the hissing issue gone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm on the latest build. The hissing is for me gone (or so quiet I don't here it anymore. At about volume 1 or 2 you maybe be able to here some. But like I said, to quiet to notice and only when you play something without sound ) I think it got quiter, but still damn loud on max. I love it.
Petty Palkovics said:
I think it got quiter, but still damn loud on max. I love it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course it's not "damn loud" anymore, it's significantly lower and not enough loud.
Does anyone know a way to being back the old audio output on headphones?
gordito_gr said:
Of course it's not "damn loud" anymore, it's significantly lower and not enough loud.
Does anyone know a way to being back the old audio output on headphones?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe the build in equalizer could help you? You can easily access it through google play music settings..
Maybe its your phone? Or your headphones? When I'm on max I can literally use my headphones as speakers...
There is a new headphones audio menu with Oreo.
Configuration > Sound > headphones and audio effects.
There are some headphone presets, some are louder than others.
jonpagecr said:
There is a new headphones audio menu with Oreo.
Configuration > Sound > headphones and audio effects.
There are some headphone presets, some are louder than others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe that to. Personally I didn't notice a big difference change those settings. It could also be your music player. SoundCloud for example can't be equalized through normal ways.
Hissing is still there, maybe a tiny bit lower. Max volume is still "damn loud", my max comfortable listening level (without ear bleeding) is not more than 50%. I often listen at volume 1 or 2 (out of 30).
Both earphone volume and loud speaker volume have been reduced for me.
Prabin813 said:
Both earphone volume and loud speaker volume have been reduced for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, personally, I think that the speaker sucks, quiet or loud. I never use it. I really bought the phone for its "rare" headphone jack, which since the latest update is wonderful. Maybe headphone hisses a little bit, maybe they cancelled the Oreo update ( I believe) and maybe the speaker are horrible. But it's the best you can get with almost fully stock Android and a headphone jack.
Yes I wrote to much
Yes, I noticed this too...
I noticed this too as the volume that I used to play music at (about 60%) with my headphones was MUCH to soft after the update! Something definitely lowered the volume, though it SEEMS that it is more on headphones than the speaker. I have to go to max when on headphones to listen to music now. I say 'seems' because I don't use the speaker for much more than phone calls, and while it is quieter, it is not so quiet you cannot hear the conversation. It would be nice if there was a way to get the volume back, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
KB_Thailand said:
I noticed this too as the volume that I used to play music at (about 60%) with my headphones was MUCH to soft after the update! Something definitely lowered the volume, though it SEEMS that it is more on headphones than the speaker. I have to go to max when on headphones to listen to music now. I say 'seems' because I don't use the speaker for much more than phone calls, and while it is quieter, it is not so quiet you cannot hear the conversation. It would be nice if there was a way to get the volume back, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Volume at max? Wow, what headphones do you use?
_mysiak_ said:
Volume at max? Wow, what headphones do you use?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Xiaomi Mi In-Ear Headphones Pro HD that I got a deal on when I bought the A1. They are ok... not great, but ok for what I paid for them.
I've tried multiple headphones since the update, and the volume issue is true across the board with anything plugged into the headphone jack. I have NOT tried bluetooth headphones as I don't keep bluetooth enabled.
My wife's red A1, which is still on Nougat, is much louder than my A1 on Oreo, update 1. (still haven't gotten the latest one)
--KB
maybe they lowered to power of the DAC because everyone was moaning about a tiny hissing noise, the only way to stop it is to buy more powerful headphone or lower the DAC, now its quieter we cant have it both ways guys
KB_Thailand said:
Xiaomi Mi In-Ear Headphones Pro HD that I got a deal on when I bought the A1. They are ok... not great, but ok for what I paid for them.
I've tried multiple headphones since the update, and the volume issue is true across the board with anything plugged into the headphone jack. I have NOT tried bluetooth headphones as I don't keep bluetooth enabled.
My wife's red A1, which is still on Nougat, is much louder than my A1 on Oreo, update 1. (still haven't gotten the latest one)
--KB
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I honestly can't imagine listening to any of my IEMs at max volume. I can't get comfortably over 50% while commuting (bus, train etc). In quiet environment my volume's somewhere between ~3% and 16%. I would accept further lowering of overall volume to remove the hissing noise in a blink of an eye (and hopefully I'll be able to do that with custom kernel)
_mysiak_ said:
I honestly can't imagine listening to any of my IEMs at max volume. I can't get comfortably over 50% while commuting (bus, train etc). In quiet environment my volume's somewhere between ~3% and 16%. I would accept further lowering of overall volume to remove the hissing noise in a blink of an eye (and hopefully I'll be able to do that with custom kernel)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never noticed the hissing noise people talk about so much, but then, my ears are old so it may be that. Before the Oreo update, a tick over half was plenty loud. After, I had to raise it, a lot. Some songs require max, while most are ok at around 85-90%. So yeah, there was a huge reduction in sound volume on my phone with the update. At least, I THINK it was the update. I installed a Sony app to record sound. I've only owned one Sony phone, an Experia 3Z. The sound on that phone was horrible. Even at max volume, you could not hear it ring if it was in your pocket, and music was always not loud enough on headphones. I may uninstall that app and see if the volume level returns just to be sure it wasn't the app and not the update, but doubt the app would affect the whole system.
I feel that too that they reduced the volume for the audio out put via 3.5 mm jack.
I got update today, and can't really tell if there is any difference in volume. I still use no more than 30-40% of volume (my head would explode with MAX), and there is still some hissing.
This applies to Oreo patch 1. Patch 2 arrived today but I have not installed it yet.:
I am not sure what I did (or what I did that made the difference) but I deleted the Sony app, then went into the settings on my music app and did some tweaking on the modes there, and the volume is now louder than it was. I can set the volume to about 55-60% now and it is loud enough. A few songs in my library still need higher settings, but I am assuming that is because they are pretty old, converted to .mp3 files from CD's (remember those?) way back in the late 1990s/early 2000s.
Bottom line: I am not sure that the update really hurt sound volume. It could have been a combo of app differences with the update. Still no hissing that I can hear.
Regards,
--KB
EDIT: I just did the new Oreo update (89MB) and the sound was different again. I went into my music app and changed the EQ to Flat and the sound was much better. I did not hear any hissing, even with classical music, but again, old ears may be the issue there.