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First post after long reading here, very nice source of information about HTC PDA phones.
I just bought one TyTN II from a HK eBay seller - fast FedEx shipping so should arrive next Thursday.
In the mean time, I am looking for a good case and found many made of aluminum at the web and eBay. Click to see eBay link.
My question is, that aluminum will not act as a RF shield for both input/output cell signals? And that probable shield will not increase the battery drain forcing more current (giving more power output) at the internal cell transmitter?
More power output mean less battery charge life.
Moreover, it will not reduce also the GPS signal reception?
Someone already did a test (cell/GPS signal strength with and without that aluminum case)?
Thanks,
Sergio
I got one of those cases I havent notised any signal drops and im using Wifi and GPS and EDGE all the time
My monaco is great, no problems
Looking around, found this message of member cornellfOo in [URL="http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=352605&page=9]Seidio's Super slim rubberized case[/URL]:
"Wow. Glad to hear these types of cases finally came out.
Anyone know if these cases will hinder reception? I bought one of the aluminum hard cases and that definitely affected reception. I'm assuming that it's the aluminum and not cases in general that cause this.
I am in low service areas often so it can be the difference between making calls and not."
Usually any metal enclosures do shield RF signals and normally metal shield are used exactly to avoid RF leaking from devices. So, that is my point and would be great if more members could do this test and report here.
No problems with my aluminum case
I don't have a real scientific test, but I used my aluminum case for a solid week when recently on vacation and had no problems at all. (I switch to different cases depending on the situation and wanted the extra protection for it while it was in my pocket all day.) I used GPS, made phone calls and checked email and web pages with no problems whatsoever. (I saw no decrease in signal strength bars either.)
I also didn't notice any increased battery drain. In fact I even had an external charger with me just in case but only used it once all week and even that time I didn't really HAVE to use it (I just liked topping it off.)
That's just my experience.
The metal case costs you around 10 - 15db!!
Yes.. thats a lot.
You can check it with the tool Fieldtest.
thommic said:
The metal case costs you around 10 - 15db!!
Yes.. thats a lot.
You can check it with the tool Fieldtest.
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Click to collapse
Well I am still waiting for my device to be delivered, scheduled tomorrow by FedEx so, I can't yet make any measurements myself but, if you think that every 3 db down step is exactly the half in power measurements, that metal shield will eat too much signal.
I have one of these aluminum cases and I have found that I get better reception:
With the case open/screen tilted vs closed up
With the case off vs case on
I figured it would function as a RF shield and in all honesty it's not a huge deal to me. It's not hard to remove the device from the case if you need those extra bars, and I'll be installing a cellular repeater in my vehicle since we have mediocre (at best) cellular coverage up here.
Same here -- I just received my Monaco case, and have not noticed any interference in reception. I like it: my Kaiser feels protected now.
rgds, Manny
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2g5J4qPp54
A video clearly showing the cause of the 3G/Edge switching, and quite "WTF" at that
Does your phone do this?
(P.S. You can access Phone Info like in the video to see your signal strength by getting AnyCut from the Market -> Long press home screen -> Shortcuts -> AnyCut -> Activity -> Phone Info)
Easier way to access phone info:
Open up the dialer, *#*#INFO#*#*
Is this really all that suprising? I'd put money on the same thing happening with most phones with the antenna in a similar position.
Not had any noticable problems with 3G in the UK.
After watching all these videos I started freaking myself out about the 3g issue, but then I realized that 1. I never did any of this and wasn't constantly checking my G1 to see if I was on edge and 2. the only time that anything close to what happens in that video (for me at least) happens to me is if I'm somewhere with spotty 3g anyway. I'm sitting at my house right now where I get great 3g and if I cover the phone with my hands I lose maybe 8db at the most. I think the rumors of the 3g issue are greatly exaggerated.
If your in a poor 3g area it will do this. And like dude above said it'll do that on most phones. I remember getting my tp it had in the instructions Something about not covering the radio at the top of the phone (tps was at the top). Now I'm on horrible 3 g area and tested this and it did switch back n forth while doing that, but it also does it to my tp2 also, so it gonna happen on most phones in bad coverage, now when I'm closer to a tower it wont do that...
Any phone will act like that.. most I mean.
In my house I usually have around -97 through -101 dBm (with the phone on my desk, no hands).
What do you guys see as your average signal strength?
staulkor said:
Easier way to access phone info:
Open up the dialer, *#*#INFO#*#*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Typing that every single time you want to see the phone info is easier than tapping one shortcut?
Paul22000 said:
Typing that every single time you want to see the phone info is easier than tapping one shortcut?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or you can not download anything and just go to settings, about phone and status and get the same info....
Paul22000 said:
In my house I usually have around -97 through -101 dBm (with the phone on my desk, no hands).
What do you guys see as your average signal strength?
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Click to collapse
-70dBm to -79dBm no hands -77dBm to -81dBm in hand.
Not had any noticable problems with 3G at home...may loose 1 bar once in a while.
wow, i just tried the exact same test and got the same results and i am in a very strong 3g area (tempe)...
You are covering the antenna - of course you are going to see a loss of signal strength. If you are in an area where that loss causes you to bounce to edge then you are going to bounce to edge. This will happen with any phone although it is more noticeable with smartphones in my experience due to the lack of an exterior antenna (perhaps you'd see the same with bar style phones).
The N1 happens to have the antenna at the bottom of the phone (maybe not the smartest placement) whereas many other smart phones have it at the top of the phone. Whether or not you get the results in the video merely represent your relative signal strength in your area.
I've been trying to force myself to use my N1 with my left hand more then my right to keep the singal strength up...seems to be on the bottom right of the phone...
krohnjw said:
You are covering the antenna - of course you are going to see a loss of signal strength. If you are in an area where that loss causes you to bounce to edge then you are going to bounce to edge. This will happen with any phone although it is more noticeable with smartphones in my experience due to the lack of an exterior antenna (perhaps you'd see the same with bar style phones).
The N1 happens to have the antenna at the bottom of the phone (maybe not the smartest placement) whereas many other smart phones have it at the top of the phone. Whether or not you get the results in the video merely represent your relative signal strength in your area.
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Well, it's very natural to want to hold the phone at the bottom. So basically it's just bad design then?...
This strikes me as pretty much of a non-issue. Yes, human flesh is not very transparent to radio at these frequencies, so if you wrap a couple of centimeters of it around the antenna, you'll see a drop in signal strength. They have to put the antenna somewhere, so it's just a matter of putting your hand somewhere else. For myself, I hold the phone with my thumb on one side edge, my two middle fingers on the other side edge, and my index finger on the back next to the camera to press the earpiece against my ear. It feels very comfortable and quite natural that way, and it leaves plenty of air space around the antenna at the bottom. Holding it this way, I never have any signal strength problems or dropped calls.
There may indeed be some 3G/EDGE issues where the algorithm for when to switch isn't quite right; I can't tell about that because I only get EDGE inside my house and always get 3G outside my house, so I've never seen the flipping back and forth that seems to be the basis of most folks' complaints on this topic. I'm just not terribly impressed by an experiment showing that wrapping your hand around the antenna causes the signal strength to go down -- I mean, who'd have expected that? ;-)
Paul22000 said:
Well, it's very natural to want to hold the phone at the bottom. So basically it's just bad design then?...
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Yeah, it is definitely a design that is not the most friendly, but the N1 is not the first phone to do it and likely won't be the last.
The video in question doesn't "show" anything new other than human flesh isn't very transparent to radio signals - anyone in a weaker coverage area can replicate the video while those in very strong 3G coverage areas (where you get a strong 3G signal not where the map says it's best) likely won't see any drop to edge unless they have hulk hands.
This doesn't appear to be any sort of newly discovered build issue (to be fair the manual that comes with the N1 states to avoid placing your hand/fingers on the bottom of the phone, with illustration on pg 12 ), rather it's a flaw in the design of the phone due to the location of the antenna and people's tendency to hold the phone covering the antenna.
@wmm and krohnjw
I'm just not terribly impressed by an experiment showing that wrapping your hand around the antenna causes the signal strength to go down -- I mean, who'd have expected that? ;-)
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but the N1 is not the first phone to do it and likely won't be the last.
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The point isn't that [wrapping your hand around an antenna decreasing signal strength] is new information.
The point is, why does this happen so EASILY with the Nexus One?
And why has this phenomenon never appeared in the news so prominently for any other phone in the history of mobile phones, as it has with the Nexus One? THAT is the issue.
Also, the Motorla Droid has the antenna at the bottom (the bottom lip), does it not? Why doesn't that phone have any issues?
.... Why exactly are we placing the antennas at the bottom of any phone.. I mean you hold the phone on the bottom, like seriously? Is there a reason for this o_0
Paul22000 said:
And why has this phenomenon never appeared in the news so prominently for any other phone in the history of mobile phones, as it has with the Nexus One?
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Click to collapse
I think it's probably because there actually was a problem with the software originally released with the N1 that caused it to switch between EDGE and 3G when it really didn't need to, and the resulting hue and cry about that over-sensitized people to this particular non-issue.
Paul22000 said:
And why has this phenomenon never appeared in the news so prominently for any other phone in the history of mobile phones, as it has with the Nexus One? THAT is the issue.
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Click to collapse
You mean like this phone?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN6265QQwhU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ0NkLqh3nU&NR=1
Just because you have some people *****ing loudly doesn't mean this is the first high profile phone that the issue has come up with...
Paul22000 said:
Also, the Motorla Droid has the antenna at the bottom (the bottom lip), does it not? Why doesn't that phone have any issues?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well there could be a few things off of the top of my head (if it has the antenna at the bottom)
Motorola may have wired other surfaces to act as additional antennas (as apple claimed to do with the iPhone 3G) on the droid.
If they did not then it's entirely possible that the N1 may have poor automatic gain control set up currently while the droid appropriately boosts gain when the signal drops.
When I cover the back of the antenna and hold it covered the signal drops out of what should be "acceptable" after 10-15s. I don't lose 3G but there is a significant degradation in signal (down to -93 dBm to -95 dBm). Perhaps the ACG controls aren't allowing gain to be boosted high enough for the radio to get a stronger signal or the thresh hold of what is "acceptable" is set too low.
I have a Samsung Galaxy S on T-mobile in the UK and I find that the phone signal indicator jumps around all over the place depending on if it's being held or small movements in it's orientation.
In a worst case scenario I can have the phone showing 3-4 bars of signal with it on a desk and then if I pick it up and hold it a couple of inches higher than it was the signal can drop to 0 or 1 bar. It often then comes back after a few seconds.
Coverage here isn't the best and it seems that I can usually still make and receive calls and it doesn't actually go out of service but is anyone else noticing the same?
The same happens when it's forced onto 2g only but not quite as badly.
I also have an HTC Desire here too and that seems to be much more stable.
The GPS on the other hand which a lot of people are complaining about seems to pick me up with ease. Even sitting on my desk inside a building it quickly locates me to within a few metres.
I've owned and used an iPhone 3G, Nexus One, and now the Samsung Galaxy S.
In my location on vodafone the SGS and N1 are equally "poor" on 2G/3G - meaning I have to find a spots in my house in the countryside to find a strong signal. In practice it's not been a big deal and once out-and-about both the SGS and N1 are fine for me. The GF is now using the N1 with 3UK without any complaints.
The iPhone 3G however would show a much stronger signal than either Android handsets (note I've used the same vodafone SIM in all these phones and the iPhone 3G was a factory unlocked import from Italy) - however the truth about why that was is revealed in Apple's recent press release about iPhone4 antenna issues - that is, they were using a bum calculation and displaying too many bars, so it only appeared to be a stronger signal when in fact I suspect it was exactly the same in reality as the N1 and SGS.
See it for yourself, Apple's engineers got it very very wrong and it's now biting them on the ass:
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/07/02appleletter.html
"we were stunned to find that the formula we use to calculate how many bars of signal strength to display is totally wrong. Our formula, in many instances, mistakenly displays 2 more bars than it should for a given signal strength."
That makes total sense to me, so I have no concerns about the Android phones appearing to show a weaker signal in my gaff. The fact Apple engineers can make such an accidental "mistake" says a lot to me about their quality control, whichever way you cut it.
Interesting read, thanks for that, I hadn't realised they'd made an announcement on the problem yet.
The more I use the phone the more I find it works as I'd expect it to in the T-mobile coverage that I'm in it's just that it's a little alarming when the phone signal indicator moves around so erratically when picked up or moved even only slightly.
I guess I'll continue to use the device and just see how it performs in the real world.
Ha. I remeber when I first got the iPhone 3g. They were using the honest signal meter then. I was only getting 2 bars almost everywhere. Then came the software update and I had 4 bars everywhere. Now I still drop calls even with 5 bars.
Ollie2 said:
I have a Samsung Galaxy S on T-mobile in the UK and I find that the phone signal indicator jumps around all over the place depending on if it's being held or small movements in it's orientation.
In a worst case scenario I can have the phone showing 3-4 bars of signal with it on a desk and then if I pick it up and hold it a couple of inches higher than it was the signal can drop to 0 or 1 bar. It often then comes back after a few seconds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to dig out a slightly old post but i'm experiencing the same thing. I'm also in the UK on T-mobile. The phone sits on my desk at work and randomly goes from 4 bars down to zero signal for no apparent reason.
I've had a G1 on T-mobile for the past 18 months and i've never had any reception issues at work so its definitely an SGS issue.
I could deal with the indicator going crazy but when it leaves me unable to send a text or make a call for a few minutes each time it zero's out its pretty annoying.
Is it just me or is anybody elses Antenna Strength all over the place. I almost feel like I purchased a new iPhone 4 with an antenna problem. I'm not sure if its my local tower or what. I can put the phone on the table and watch the strength max out then I can pick it up and watch it dance around from full to well nothing.
Take my fingers off the chrome outer ring and balance the phone on my palm and watch the strength climb.
It was delivered today, so I haven't really played with it a lot. I can tell you that my 3G signal is horrid, but was fine on my G1. Its almost like I gained an awesome screen and lost signal in the process.
I am inside, but never noticed that kind of activity at all with my G1.
Play around with it a little more and see if it has any effect on your calls. Don't judge purely on the signal bars.
The bad 3g reception you mention is concerning though.
kizer said:
Is it just me or is anybody elses Antenna Strength all over the place. I almost feel like I purchased a new iPhone 4 with an antenna problem. I'm not sure if its my local tower or what. I can put the phone on the table and watch the strength max out then I can pick it up and watch it dance around from full to well nothing.
Take my fingers off the chrome outer ring and balance the phone on my palm and watch the strength climb.
It was delivered today, so I haven't really played with it a lot. I can tell you that my 3G signal is horrid, but was fine on my G1. Its almost like I gained an awesome screen and lost signal in the process.
I am inside, but never noticed that kind of activity at all with my G1.
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Click to collapse
The bars are -15dBm off to actual reception.
Yes, my signal strength seems to jump all over the place as well. Hope it can be fixed with a software update.
some thing here im about to get new one maybe tomorrow
of course were not 100% sure yet but we think the bars aren't reading correctly although covering the bottom of the phone were the antenna is there will naturally be signal loss does it on my tp2 as we'll...
i have the same problem its weird but manageable i tested my phone to the iphone 4 and my phone loads web pages faster streams videos from the internet faster and connects to youtube through the youtube app to play videos faster and seems to be faster all together only downside is the iphone 4 has the ffc and higher resolution but thats it i can deal without that
i always say forget the bars, can you make a call Lol
I have been making calls on mine while showing zero bars. No real reception issue. I just ignore the bars.
Yeah, don't go by the bars at all with this phone. Like above, I've had zero bars, and no issues here with calls or browsing the web.
I wouldn't ignore it completely...
I've had a few dropped calls now from the attenuation and frequently have my data freeze up on me when I hold the phone. The signal isn't terrible where I live, I never had dropped calls on my G1 or my Wizard in this location.
Unfortunately it isn't something that is fixable, it's just crummy placement of the antenna.
I held the phone in a death grip with my right hand until it displayed no bars, but it didn't seems affect my 3g. I did a speed test and I got 1.25mbps down and 0.3mbps up, which is pretty normal in my area. I did a second test holding it with my left hand and I got 0.99mbps down and 0.25mbps up. A third run while covering it up with both hands did have an affect, but who really does that? It showed 0.6mbps down and 0.15mbps up.
I haven't tried calling anyone under those same conditions, so I don't know if anything is going on there..
Ive had spotty 3g at my house since i got my phone. Most ive seen is 2 bars. Noticed tonight i left my phone on table and came back and i had full bars with 3g.
Picked up phone like i always and hold with left hand it drops to 1 to no bars. So i hold the phone with right hand i get stronger signal, left hand weak...
Im guessing the antenna is on the left bottom side of the phone apparently covering it up drops my 3g signal significantly, going from full to no bars just by covering left corner ...anyone else?
Not really complaining because i still connect 3g fine but i do drop to edge allot if im in certain rooms and phone calls never drop just curious of maybe a solution or whatnot
I looked on youtube and found this but you dont have to hold phone like this. just palm it with left hand
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vefQ4I2wOXs
And sorry if posted already i could find anything on this here
Happens here too. Funny thing is that I have case on it. One thing those in the youtube comments are mixing up and not understanding is the signal strength. I wish they were more smart people in the world lol..
Anyway what I am getting at is that this happens with all Vibrants, it just depends on your current signal strength in dBm. For example, if I'm inside with around 4-5 bars, around -81dBm. Then when I grip it, the signal will go down by -20dBm or more resulting in two to three bar lost. Where as if I'm outside with around -51dBm and do the same thing. It will result in the same -20dBm but you won't notice it enough because the bars don't start to go down until around -89dBm or more.
* The lower the dBm, the better your signal.
* It was the same issue with Nexus One.
* The design of the phone is causing your hand to have more of an effect on it.
If anyone want to proove this case. Just get two Vibrants next to each other in the same area and do the hand thing.
Yea see i never noticed this with my N1 But yea what your saying makes scene.
Its not a big deal i still connect avr 1mbps with weak signal but found it odd
Yea same here. I do admit the signal is even more sensitive than my n1 was though. Oh well I guess this is just one thing we have live it until a better phone comes again.
Shouldn't 2.2 come with an updated radio and if so maybe it will help
It might make the radio use more power from my experience but this isn't a software issue. Though speaking of software, right now the dBm read out and bars are off by 5 or so dBm. So when we get the 2.2 update we should see the proper signal read out which will appear stronger and it should be more stable as well. Either way, our hands will still be able to affect the phone. Just like any other phone but more drastic with the Vibrant, N1 and iPhone 4.
The bars are generally useless and I don't think it's really an issue unless it's actually dropping the signal. I have zero bars of 3G all the time, and I still get full speed. The difference between zero bars and zero signal is rather large, IMO.
If the signal attenuation from holding it causes you to drop 3G altogether, well, I feel for you. It's never happened to me, and I've done all kinds of grip experiments to see if I could make the signal attenuate.
To go on, the Vibrant has the best radio of any phone I've ever used. The test for me is whether I can hold signal in my building's elevator. Virtually every phone I've owned (and most all my friends' phones) dropped signal as soon as the doors closed or shortly after. Prior to my Vibrant, the champ was my Blackberry 8820, which could hold signal for about two floors before cutting out. The Vibrant? It may drop to EDGE, but I still hold some kind of signal all the way down, which is amazing.
That something I notice the first day I got the Vibrant , did not have that issue with other previous phone in the same spot... if I put the phone in a table it gets full bars.. once I pick up the phone it goes back to 2 bars... the only way I get full bars is if a hold the phone just from the bottom.
I'm going to have a seizure if I see another one of these threads.
-81dBm is an obvious flaw and should be completely disregarded UNLESS you're off of JFD or anything based on JFD. This phones reported signal strength refreshes FAR more often than nearly all other Android phones on the market. Motorola on T-Mobile being the slowest to refresh any signal changes.
The bars are wrong and very inaccurate. Do a search. Update to JI2 or JI4.
heygrl said:
I'm going to have a seizure if I see another one of these threads.
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Another one of what threads?
Cut me some slack i rarely ask questions here and no one force you to click on this thread... but i do appreciate the info you gave.
Only thing i noticed when I went threw your post history is you replying to this question with threads with topic names not related to this problem.
And if you read my first post you would have seen
demo23019 said:
And sorry if posted already i could find anything on this here
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and
demo23019 said:
Not really complaining because i still connect 3g fine but i do drop to edge allot if im in certain rooms and phone calls never drop just curious of maybe a solution or whatnot
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... thanks for the info guys