Hi, I tried to push the 4.3 update and unroot my device through Wugfresh kit and all went well. But when it initially booted, I had this constant popup saying that "Bluetooth Share has stopped working" making the device unusable as it was stuck on the welcome screen. So, I rebooted into bootloader and tried to use the "Unroot + Stock" option saying my device had a soft brick and flash 4.2.2. But now nothing starts, it stays on the Google screen and that's it. I am however able to boot into recovery. I've checked the manual way of doing it but it says my USB debugging needs to be turned on (but I can't boot into the OS to do that)... To top it up, my computer isn't recognizing my device. I've used mskip's toolkit as well, no go. Are there any solutions or is my table gone for good?
Thanks
Oh yeah I tried again with Wugfresh it says this
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
You need to install this to use ADB in recovery.
Thanks, I've downloaded those drivers and followed the instruction for windows 8 but still adb doesn't recognize my device and I cannot boot into the device to change it to debugging mode as I cannot go past the Google screen =\ any other ways to make it recognize my device?
my brother has a nexus 7 do you guys think if I deleted all the drivers and put his into debugging mode it'll install drivers for mine too?
What you installed is needed to use ADB while in recovery. Here is the latest Android Composite ADB Interface Driver from SDK that you need for use of ADB while booted and fastboot in bootloader.
http://d-h.st/kDu
You do not need USB debugging to use ADB while in recovery or fastboot.
Username invalid said:
What you installed is needed to use ADB while in recovery. Here is the latest Android Composite ADB Interface Driver from SDK that you need for use of ADB while booted and fastboot in bootloader.
http://d-h.st/kDu
You do not need USB debugging to use ADB while in recovery or fastboot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, thanks again. However, I have no idea what to do with those files (the drivers) with ADB
Install or update through device manager.
I had a similar issue. My pc went to BSOD in the middle of writing system. To made it worse, fastboot stopped working altogether. My solution was to do the flashing from my Linux partiton. I know it's a crazy advice, but linux commands never fail, and you won't need drivers at all.
Still, try to use the "flash-all.bat" from the factory image, and stay away from toolkits.
When I plug in my nexus in (while in bootloader) on my device manager this pops up but then I try to update the drivers it says it can't update unknown device
You may have to disable Window's Driver Signature Enforcement.
I do not have a linux partition I'm using a windows 8 and I have 2 other PCs with win7 and xp. My windows 8 digital signature checking is disabled.
EDIT: plugging my bro's nexus did not make mine get recognized by the PC. I am installing linux on my other PC just to see if it works + i've never used linux so a new experience
running it on ubuntu 12.04 did not help either =\ while in bootloader in terminal I type in adb devices and not devices are listed under "List of devices attached"
When you are in boot loader mode you need to use fastboot instead of adb, I.e. try:
fastboot devices
(I suppose you have the latest SDK installed ...)
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
Well guys, I've been doing this for about 12 hours straight lol and I'VE FINALLY DONE IT THROUGH UBUNTU OMG I LOVE UBUNTU! YES!!! Thank you all for the amazing support and advice! Much appreciated. Thank you ALL! :highfive:
It's not as if your device was bricked in the first place
Installing the drivers in Ubuntu is very easy using "sudo apt-get install android-tools".
Related
My nexus has been rooted. I up rom 4.3 by nexus 7 toolkit failed. When it change to fastboot mode, recovery failed, start failed so i choose power off. Now it won't boot just black screen forever (. Somebody help me please !
minhpro9xhp said:
My nexus has been rooted. I up rom 4.3 by nexus 7 toolkit failed. When it change to fastboot mode, recovery failed, start failed so i choose power off. Now it won't boot just black screen forever (. Somebody help me please !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just manually try flashing recovery through fastboot .
Code:
fastboot flash recovery recovery.IMG
There are tons of similar threads like this . please try to search before posting.
Red Devil said:
Just manually try flashing recovery through fastboot .
Code:
fastboot flash recovery recovery.IMG
There are tons of similar threads like this . please try to search before posting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank for your help but i tried and it just show "waiting for devices". My nexus still not display
minhpro9xhp said:
Thank for your help but i tried and it just show "waiting for devices". My nexus still not display
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh did you install the drivers that are required on Windows from Asus ? Make sure you install them.
Code:
fastboot devices
will let you know if your device is connected well.
Red Devil said:
Oh did you install the drivers that are required on Windows from Asus ? Make sure you install them.
Code:
fastboot devices
will let you know if your device is connected well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, i insalled driver from asus and i tried to press POWER ON and VOLUME DOWN so it change to APX mode. So, i update driver, pick driver from my computer>C:user/minh/download/usb_driver and nexus 7 still on APX mode with "ASUS Transformer prime APX interface" driver.
fastboot devices--->nothing
adb devices-->nothing
hi same thing happened to me
can you post the link of where to get the asus drivers from
any luck with your nexus yet??
Driver from Asus? Pretty sure you just use the one from the Android SDK.
GldRush98 said:
Driver from Asus? Pretty sure you just use the one from the Android SDK.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for that
and do you have any idea on how to get the nexus back up and running
or anyone else
Can you get in to fastboot? If so, you can flash a recovery or system imaged or anything from there. Fastboot should always work (volume up + volume down + power all at the same time)
GldRush98 said:
Can you get in to fastboot? If so, you can flash a recovery or system imaged or anything from there. Fastboot should always work (volume up + volume down + power all at the same time)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes i was, when in fastboot mode i choosed start and recovery mode but all failed so i choosed power off (very stupid thing). Now my device is brick.
minhpro9xhp said:
yes i was, when in fastboot mode i choosed start and recovery mode but all failed so i choosed power off (very stupid thing). Now my device is brick.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tried plugging it in to the a/c adapter and charging for a few hours?
minhpro9xhp said:
fastboot devices--->nothing
adb devices-->nothing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^ This sounds like a driver issue if you are not getting anything to show up. You could try the zip I have attached its the google drivers I use and they work fine.
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
View attachment google-usb_driver.zip
GldRush98 said:
Tried plugging it in to the a/c adapter and charging for a few hours?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i tried
dpdurst said:
^ This sounds like a driver issue if you are not getting anything to show up. You could try the zip I have attached its the google drivers I use and they work fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't thing the driver issue, i tried many driver but it not working.
google nexus 7 ADB interface
google nexus ADB interface
google nexus 7 BootLoader interface
google nexus bootloader interface
asus fastboot interface
...
thanks for replying
i tried many times to do various combinations o fholding down the power and up,down volume...nothing
i will try later when i am on my desktop to look at fastboot...and update the drivers
right now when i plug the nexus into the pc it comes up as not recognised...
if the nexus were completely dead would it still even come up in the device manager??
i also tried to pull the battery for a few minutes and then try again....nothing
i charge it into the mains with cable and nothing...
i will need to check it when i get home on my main pc in a few hours
please wirte any further siggestions or any web video/links which may help in this situation
THIS is the point where i turned the power off in the FIRST SCREEN
http://loewald.com/blog/?p=5198
i am on my main pc right now
i have downloaded the SDK manager and installed the Android SDK platform tools and Google USB driver
nothing happens when i plug the nexus into the PC
do i need to actually manually install these drivers or they are already installed when i ran the SDK manager...
the nexus shows as unknown device right now
Try to install WugFresh's toolkit. http://www.wugfresh.com/
Follow the driver installation guide and make sure thet the previous drivers is removed.
Choose the recomended driver.
If you can start your device in fastboot mode (bootloader) it should be salvageable.
If you use Windows 8, getting a working driver can be quite a struggle.
it was wugfresh toolkit that i was using
so i uninstalled all drivers and installed the drivers from his toolkit
sadly the usb device is still not recognised
well, i searched google and they said there was one way to fix hard brick nexus 7. It is using "JIG usb". If somebody used "JIG usb" please reply me.
I think I'm having the same problem as you, but I am still able to get into bootloader mode. It may take up to around 20 seconds holding the volume down and power button to get back into bootloader mode. In fastboot bootloader, going into recovery freezes (freezes on the "Teamwin" screen), "start" freezes on the "Google" screen with padlock unlocked. Used Wug's to try to go back to factory setting (but to 4.3 instead of 4.2.2), failed to write 'bootloader' and device never boots back up when it says "waiting for device". Then tried using Nexus 7 toolkit (not Wug's) to lock it back up and now I can't unlock again...same thing..."waiting for device" and device never boots back up.
any update for this problem?
any update for this problem?
i try alot of solution but nothing change
i saw N7 can connect to APX with correct Driver however we can do anything
i try connect power about 8 h but nothing change
what the F *K with OTA update ........
Hello there.
I am writing because I need your help on unbricking my Nexus 7 3G (2012). Yesterday night I was trying to upgrade it from 5.1.0 to 5.1.1 (from the OTA) and I couldn't because I had an error produced by Stickmount. It changed a file on system/bin which I tried to push manually (following some thread's intructions on XDA) and it didn't work, showing error Status 7 (unexpected content on file debuggerd).
Because of that, I decided to flash the 5.1.1 system image using Nexus Toolkit. I set it up so it'd download and install it automatically (using the "Flash stock + Unroot" option). Everything went okay and started the flashing process until the command prop window force closed mid flash, thing that never happened to me before (as I had tried many times flashing from zero my N7 before).
I tried to start the Toolkit again and the command prop window says it flashes bootloader and radio img's successfully, but then a line of code appears and the cmd window force closes again (it says "No se esperaba ( en este momento" or roughly translated as "The ( was not expected at this moment" into English) and my N7 turns off.
Next, I try to turn it on and it shows the Google logo and a green arrow saying "start". I press it and the N7 reboots to the same screen, saying "booting failed" at the top of the screen. If I choose recovery, the same thing happens.
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
I just can make it to boot to bootloader mode but I cannot flash the firmw (even when this mode must be selected in order to the Toolkit to start flashing). It shows the same line of unexpected code as above.
I tried pushing the files manually using ADB and I cannot may it work either.
What can I do to solve this? I've read that as long as you can get to bootloader mode you can unbrick a device.
I hope you could help me out. Thanks in advance.
Anyone?
Im not a expert, but so if you in bootloader, fastboot (android sdk) dont see your nexus? For check type - 'fastboot devices', if that return something, you can use it to flash recovery/or whole system.
Im linux user, so I dont know how to check how visible is device in windows - and whether drivers are working properly.
I'm sorry if I say the obvious, I just would like to help as much I can. Good luck!
wombat3 said:
Im not a expert, but so if you in bootloader, fastboot (android sdk) dont see your nexus? For check type - 'fastboot devices', if that return something, you can use it to flash recovery/or whole system.
Im linux user, so I dont know how to check how visible is device in windows - and whether drivers are working properly.
I'm sorry if I say the obvious, I just would like to help as much I can. Good luck!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks wombat. Actually, the N7 is listed under adb devices. It starts the flashing process but ends automatically without finishing the installation.
Nexus 4 - wiped internal storage & pc wont recognize phone so stuck in recovery mode
before i start, i would like to say that my last experience with android phone, rooting and other stuff related to android was last october 2013. please bear with me
i posted this exact texts below before before i gave up on my nexus 4. now after 2 years, im ready to get frustated again. so here it is
----------
my problem started after i updated to oct 7 cm10.3 nightly. my pc and my mbp cant read my nexus storage.
searched for this problem and found some few n4 users that experienced this but my main problem is there is no android device listed on my device manager.
i checked for all possible solutions:
- uninstall driver on device manager and reconnect the phone to install the driver automatically (but theres no android device listed)
- changed the storage settings as to connect to mtp
- restore factory settings and wipe data
- tried different data cables
- changed my rom from cm to pa
- restart phone
- push adb but device not found (but my pc doesnt recognize my phone)
- turned on/off usb debugging (still cant read)
then out of frustration, i wiped my storage data completely
so now, i cant flash any roms, no files found on system
i cant push adb because my pc cant find my phone even in recovery and device manager, even in USBDeview
but the unit is till charging
i sent it to lg and they said the board was the problem and the replacement was expensive so i gave up and bought another phone
----------
google released pixel and i began to miss my n4 so tried to recover it
the condition is the same 2 years ago. placed it in storage after got frustrated
so anyone has an idea?
If the phone is recognized in fastboot mode, flash TWRP, boot into TRWP, mount storage, copy a custom ROM to the phone, and flash from TWRP.
As an alternative, you can flash a stock Google ROM if fastboot commands are working.
Hey!
Maybe it's just a minor "hardware problem". Did you check if there is any lint between the micro usb connector-plate and the back (see attachment)? Mine caught dirt and lint over time. With a thin but sturdy piece of plastic I could remove the dirt again, and suddenly all my cables started to work again.
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
thank you audit13 and smeee_again for your replies. ill look into both of it!
Phone should be recognized in Bootloader mode anyway, try different drivers, then fastboot flash stock and re-root
Optionally, boot into recovery, connect cable and go to mount options then mount usb storage, put any ROM in storage and flash it, the trick is it shouldn't require specific drivers as storage via recovery shouldn't use MTP but generic USB connection (like pendrive) as far as I know.
If you don't want to root and install a custom recovery just download and fastboot the Fake Nexus ROM which will give you a stock experience really easily and also it will be Nougat . Check out the thread for how to install it, it's really easy.
Help Me Anyone Guys, I'm In Extreme Problem.
Unfortunately, I Did Something With TWRP Backups, And Then TWRP Is Not Opening, It Just Restarts, And When Connected To PC, adb Shows Device Unauthorized And Doesn't Show Any Authorisation Pop UP On Mobile. What Should I Do?
I Can't Even Factory Reset From Settings As It Makes A Reboot And Does Nothing.
Help Would Be Extremely Appreciated.
Thanks In Advance.
Reinstall drivers properly, mostly don't try in win 10, 10 is **** causes bugs, use win 7 or 8 or 8.1 also enable oem unlocking from settings and enable USB debugging
Sent from my Moto G4 Plus using Tapatalk
Krsambhav16 said:
Help Me Anyone Guys, I'm In Extreme Problem.
Unfortunately, I Did Something With TWRP Backups, And Then TWRP Is Not Opening, It Just Restarts, And When Connected To PC, adb Shows Device Unauthorized And Doesn't Show Any Authorisation Pop UP On Mobile. What Should I Do?
I Can't Even Factory Reset From Settings As It Makes A Reboot And Does Nothing.
Help Would Be Extremely Appreciated.
Thanks In Advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Need a little more details to help (Which ROM, what exactly did you do, which version of TWRP, etc)
Have you tried the 'Revoke USB Debugging Authorisation' option? It worked for me when my phone wasn't recognised.
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
I'm not sure if it's a W10 issue as I've been doing everything with W10 since then beginning with no issues.
⌲ from my Moto G⁴ Plus / Tapatalk
1chrome said:
Need a little more details to help (Which ROM, what exactly did you do, which version of TWRP, etc)
Have you tried the 'Revoke USB Debugging Authorisation' option? It worked for me when my phone wasn't recognised.
I'm not sure if it's a W10 issue as I've been doing everything with W10 since then beginning with no issues.
⌲ from my Moto G⁴ Plus / Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello Brother, Meeting U After Many Days.
First, I Have Moto Stock ROM, And That **** Doesn't Has Revoke Option.
Last, Yes I Was Using Windows 10 And It Detects The Device But Doesn't Gets Authorized By Phone Due To No Pop Up.
Thanks
EDIT : TWRP 3.0.2-2 r2 I Think.
EDIT 2 : I Restored My Old Backup And Unfortunately I Forgot To Wipe Partitions And Then Got This Problem.
I am not what exactly went wrong. Boot into fastboot mode and If you're PC is detecting fastboot, try booting into TWRP using an image and see if you can restore a backup.
Or if you have your personal files backed up, just flash the Stock Nougat ROM via fastboot.
That will clear up everything. Or if you want a more flexible ROM, just go for a custom one
⌲ from my Moto G⁴ Plus / Tapatalk
1chrome said:
I am not what exactly went wrong. Boot into fastboot mode and If you're PC is detecting fastboot, try booting into TWRP using an image and see if you can restore a backup.
Or if you have your personal files backed up, just flash the Stock Nougat ROM via fastboot.
That will clear up everything. Or if you want a more flexible ROM, just go for a custom one
⌲ from my Moto G⁴ Plus / Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But adb Is Showing Unauthorized So How Do I Use Fastboot?
Krsambhav16 said:
But adb Is Showing Unauthorized So How Do I Use Fastboot?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you tried other computer/laptop, or change the port you are using, try to change the data cable as these are the basic steps we do in these cases.
If problem continue persist try to use the Windows 7 for flashing via abd, also try to boot into safe mode and then try the adb may help you.
avirk said:
Did you tried other computer/laptop, or change the port you are using, try to change the data cable as these are the basic steps we do in these cases.
If problem continue persist try to use the Windows 7 for flashing via abd, also try to boot into safe mode and then try the adb may help you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK I Will Try On Friends pc. Thanks
I have not touched this phone in a year, so forgive me if im rusty.
I embarked on a project of compiling slimroms 7.1.2 for this device a year ago, and made a rom that made it onto the device. Now, Here is my mistake. At the time when i built the rom, the nougat bootloader for this device was not out yet(i think, as my bootloader is on a0.4d aka dated 2016-11-30) Giddy that i had finally built a custom rom that worked, i hurriedly flashed the device through the recovery(twrp at the time) and thats when the issues happened. The device will not charge past 1 percent, and in an effort to fix, without knowing that my outdated bootloader was the issue, i decided that installing stock recovery was the best option. BIG MISTAKE. as i now cannot flash anything in recovery. i keep getting signature verification failures and what not.
With that backstory out of the way, here is my issue. I cannot flash anything in fastboot, because when i connect the device to windows i get
Code:
Windows has stopped this device because it has reported problems. (Code 43)
A request for the USB device descriptor failed.
Yes i have updated the drivers and when i install the motorola drivers manually i get this:
Code:
This device cannot start. (Code 10)
A request for the USB device descriptor failed.
this is the single most thing that is keeping me from reviving this device. I have tried using linux, but the device just doesnt show up. I have tried multiple usb cables. so i know thats not the issue. any help would be very appreciated.
UPDATE: i have done some digging around and no loader files are working. (using a 32gig class 10 microsd). Also, It is on stock recovery so i cannot flash anything other than stock images, which if i am correct, none are recovery flashable, only the otas are. When i try to flash an ota it doesnt work because it is expecting stock apps in system, which are not there since i am on a slimrom rom.
TLDR: i have stock bootloader and recovery, (24.49-18-8/4) but have a non rooted slimrom 7.1.2 which shows up in windows as get device descriptor failed(unknown device). if there was a way to root slimrom 7.1 without usb and with stock recovery that would help alot.
Have you tried the method to revive the phone in Qualcom mode (error 9008)?
mr_5kool said:
Have you tried the method to revive the phone in Qualcom mode (error 9008)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you link me to a thread that has that info please?
When I am in bootloader and hit the power button on the qcom option my phone just boots into the slimroms option with no change in the USB side
Here you are
https://forum.xda-developers.com/moto-x-style/help/solved-hard-brick-moto-x-style-xt1572-t3693860
mr_5kool said:
Here you are
https://forum.xda-developers.com/moto-x-style/help/solved-hard-brick-moto-x-style-xt1572-t3693860
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So my issue is worse than that. It shows up on the computer as "device descriptor get failed" so I am unableble to use that method unless I can force it into qdloader mode
Here is the Qualcom driver if you don't have
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Bx2X76GhQpwDVXg5ZXZYNFo0MzA
mr_5kool said:
Here is the Qualcom driver if you don't have
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Bx2X76GhQpwDVXg5ZXZYNFo0MzA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When i try to install this driver, it says that it is incompatable for my device
I will try again when i get home tomorrow though
mr_5kool said:
Here is the Qualcom driver if you don't have
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Bx2X76GhQpwDVXg5ZXZYNFo0MzA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Alright, When i try to install this driver i get this
View attachment 4594365
And this is the error i have on any machine
View attachment 4594369
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
I don't know what happened to your PC. But it is successfully installed here. The worst problem we (mosy of us) had met was error 9008. If your phone cannot be solved by this way, I'm sorry that I can't help much!
mr_5kool said:
I don't know what happened to your PC. But it is successfully installed here. The worst problem we (mosy of us) had met was error 9008. If your phone cannot be solved by this way, I'm sorry that I can't help much!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its quite alright. i think that i bricked the phone while trying to use an unsupported bootloader, therefore bricking the mainboard
Its noones fault but my own, so i will chalk this one up to a loss lol