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Ok guys, so nuclear war stroke the planet, your brand new tv and pc got busted in the initial attack and you're left with your precious HD2 running some custom rom and about 16-32gb of storage. Hope you don't get borred, there won't be many apps on marketplace, or even a marketplace (servers got busted by the nuke )
Now to get more seriously i can't figure out why i would need a phone able to be powered on 24/24. But i guess at least it could be useful on camping trips or stuff like this.
This is the start of a project, are goals are something like this:
1. reverse engineer the charge algorithm used by HD2 (in involves at least 2 charging modes each with 2 stages, as i know so far)
2. assemble or buy a 5-10W solar panel (only the panel and a Schottky type fast diode)
3. get myself some old laptop batteries and strip them down for cells and controllers.
4. design and assemble a cell pack as a buffer between the solar panel and phone
5. design a switching mode voltage stabilizer and make a custom usb hub in order to also have usb host functionality if i feel geeky and need linux
6. design a charge controller for the cell pack when using solar power.
7. put all things together and test
The goal is simple. Although there are solar batteries that provide some extra juice to laptops or pda's they function somewhat like 2-3 hours discharge, about one day in full sun to recharge.
I want a system that can power a full load working hd2 (worst scenario) non stop (day and night) including cloudy days, nuclear winter or whatever. The system must also be able to power about 3-4 usb devices and sustain a full 500mA drain on each port while still being able to power the hd2 non stop. Aaah, yes, the thing must be portable, plug&play, reliable and maintenance free. At most, it should have the size of a regular 15 inch laptop and about 2kg weight (all things included).
Stage 1 completed
So i figured out how hd2 charges it's battery. It's pretty simple actually.
Charging is made in the same way for either wall charger or usb charging. Same pins are used. However, when the wall charger is used, charging current can be as high as 800-900mA. This will decrease to some 20-30mA when the battery will be almost 100% charged.
If you however connect the usb data pins to hd2 and to something (computer, hub etc) hd2 will change the charging mode to usb. This feature ensures that when connected to a pc, the phone will never try to get 8-900mA from a 500mA usb port pretty neat. Instead, maximum charge current is limited to about 400mA.
If you get access to the usb wires inside the cable you can trigger either mode by simply disconnecting or reconnecting the data pins (green+white on standard usb cables). This is useful because i can devise some means of redirecting the charge current to either external battery (let's say after a night of use for the hd2) or to the hd2 if .. for some reason it's internal battery is discharged.
A usb enabled pic microcontroller (say 18f2550) can be used to control the charging process of either internal or external battery by simulating a pc connection, thus enabling hd2 to switch to low current charge. However if i'm guessing right, a simple usb hub could also do the job as it also contains a microcontoller that "knows" the usb protocol. So because i will use an external powered hub for linux, I'll try to use it also for switching between charging modes. Besides is more easier this way and i (or others) will be spared the time needed to program a microcontroller, or fabricate a pcb for it and it's corresponding components. And.. in case of nuclear attack there won't be any radio shack or electronics store where you could buy microcontrollers
Stage 2 completed:
Well i got myself some time ago a cheap 10watt polycrystaline solar panel for use with a robot i'm building. It was about $50 here in Romania. I guess i'll be using this one, even if it's quite big (something like a 16 inch laptop). Anyway i could also power other things with it. Will do some tests, and if it's suited for the job, it will be used. It arrived completely assembled so it also spares me the trouble and time of connecting individual cells into to form a solar panel.
Update : completed, will use the spare 10watt panel, until a new one arrives.
Stage 3 completed:
Got some 5-6 old laptop batteries. Stripped them down and got some ~30 cells. I'll test them out and sort about 4-6 of them.
Stage 4 completed: I'm currently sorting out some cells. As far as design goes, the capacity of the "extended battery" will be 14400mAh (single charge, using no solar power). That could easily power a full 15 inch laptop for about 4 hours, so i guess hd2 will have no problems staying alive for one night until next day and the sunrise to kick in for the solar charging to take place
Stage 5+6 completed:
There won't be any linear voltage stabilizer design for the buffer between the battery and hd2. They are quite inefficient with 30-40% power lost in the form of heat. Switching mode stabilizers+converters will be the way for this design. Found a ready made voltage stabilizer (converter) that's suited for the job , Saved some good hours that would otherwise have been spent on designing one from available parts.
Stage 7: yep, i'm now building the damn thing. I've simplified the design as much as i could, while keeping it safe for the phone, i guess the project will be possible to make by anyone with basic soldering skills.
apr. 13 - update: construction delayed due to one cell failure (the difference in internal resistance between the cells was greater then i expected). Will now search for a replacement, recalibrate the battery pack and recharge. However I expect that the battery module should be ready by the end of this day or tomorrow.
ok then.. it was built, it was tested and i'm already using it or at least.. trying to figure out a use for it
Anyway, if you're the camping type, if you feel geeky or wanna make a eco-friendly charger for the hd2 (or other usb charging enabled things) here's how to build one
You'll need the following materials:
- patience, this is a long post, try not to get bored while reading it
- some basic electronics skills, basic understanding of components, measurements and circuit troubleshooting (this is not a beginner project i guess, as hard as i tried to make it, if done improperly... well of course, you risk killing the poor phone in the process).
- some second hand laptop batteries, 3-4 would be ideal, they can be kind of old, but must be functional to some degree.
- a cheap usb charger used for cars, the one that plugs into the cigarette jack OR some good electronics skills to design a switching power supply. Guess most of people will go with the first option, in order to be more helpful i also designed this circuit using this option. You should buy the cheapest adapter, the cheaper the better. That's because the expensive ones have a feature that enables them to stop working if the voltage of the car battery drops to a certain point. That's supposed to be some sort of protection not to allow the car battery to discharge and thus preventing you to start your car. We don't want this protection, we want to be cheap asses, we want dirt cheap. However the adapter you want to buy must deliver 5V at around 1-1.5Amps minimum. 5Volts at 500mA is to little, it will simply kill itself when you start the thing once it's completed.
- a standard usb hub, any will do. This is if you want usb host functionality or use linux.
- a 5-10W solar panel. The bigger the better - it will allow to recharge the buffer battery (the one you'll be building) at a faster rate. This is the single most expensive part of this build. If you simply want an external battery for the hd2 you can skip the panel, if you want solar charging.. this is .. of course, a must.
- one fast rectifier diode or a schottky diode, you should buy it if you use a solar panel, the supplier of solar panel could also recommend one to use with that specific panel. We have to use one, this will make sure the current goes from the panel to the battery, not the other way around.
- bunch of wires, a multimeter and a soldering tool witch you're not afraid to use.
- a variable power supply, either it be a wall charger with variable output voltage, a laboratory power supply, or some charger that can output anywhere from 3.6 to 4.5 volts at anywhere from 300mA to 1A. Any combination will do. This is required only once in order to precharge the cells to a specific voltage.
- one switch or something similar in order to ... switch the thing on and off.
- spare time/understanding wife/coffee etc
1. Ok, first of all you need to get those laptop batteries open. Use some sharp tool, your karate skills or whatever necessary to crack those batteries open and expose the individual cells inside. Be careful not to damage the cells in the process, at least if you use some sharp tools. Once exposed, the cells will be linked to each other, you need to separate them by cutting the wires or metal bands that links them. Once done sort them out, if you have multiple batteries, sort the cells from each battery in a different case or basket or whatever you want, the idea is not to mix them.
Here's mine:
2. You now need to measure up individual cells with a multimeter. You're looking for the voltage rating of each cell. If you find cells with 0 volts, they're dead. If you place the multimeter in continuity testing mode and the 0 volts cells are showing continuity across their leads, yep.. they're really dead. Never use these. Good cells have anywhere from 1volt to 3-4volts.
Once you selected your good cells start forming a pack. The idea is simple. The more cells you put, the longer the thing will last. Standard laptop cells are rated to a minimum of 3.7Volts and 2400mAh. Each of them is almost double the capacity of the standard battery that comes with the HD2. However since you're going to use second-hand ones, they will have sign of usage, a smaller capacity then that of a new one. Still they will perform at least the same as hd2 battery in terms of battery life. Minimum configuration starts with 2 cells, i recommend 4 cells as a decent start but you can go and add more cells if you like. The more cells the longer battery life but at the expense of added weight. My choice was 6 cells. If you had 2 laptop batteries and each of them had 6 cells, you can make your pack on anywhere from 2 to 12 cells.
Let's say you choose 6 cells (always an even number). If 6 is you choice, you will need to divide that number by 2. So you get 3. You need 3 working cells from the same laptop battery to form a pair. Go back to the place you kept the cells and select 3 cells, NEVER mix cells from different batteries. These 3 cells you have (first pair) will need to be linked in parallel connection. The negative ( - ) of each cell is linked to the negative of the other and the positive to the other 2 cell's positive. We'll get there, but at a future step. Now we need the second pair of 3 cells. Again look in your cell basket and try to find 3 more cells from the same battery. This battery may be different then that first one you selected cells for the first pair. Yet again, the 3 cells must come from a single battery, no mixes. And.... again, these 3 cells must be placed in parallel. So if we already imagine them connected, we would have 2 pairs, each of them with 3 cells linked in parallel. The 2 pairs must be linked in series, so the minus of one pair will go to the plus (positive pins) of the other. The unconnected pins of each pairs (one minus one plus) will be used for voltage supply - you'll get the combined voltage of the cell pack here. If i were to draw this things for you to better understand.. it would look something like this.
green is one cell pair, orange the other. The black things are wires. This are the connections for a 6 cell pack. If you have 8 cells, you will make pairs from 4 cells (2 pairs). If you have 4 cells - the pairs will have 2 cells. A charged cell will have something like 4 volts. A pair made up of several cells in parallel will still have 4 volts across it's leads, but the overall current capacity of the pair is increased by the number of cells it contains. So if you have 3 cells each with 4v and 2200mAh, the pair will have 4 volts but with 6600mAh. If you place 2 pairs in series like on that drawing, you increase the voltage of the group by the number of pairs you add while still having the same current capacity. So if you get 2 pairs of 4 volts and 6600mAh, you will have 1 group, 8 volts and still 6600mAh. That's the total output of your pack. Because hd2 needs 5V (not 8 !!) we need something to decrease the voltage from 8 to 5 volts. That's why we need that car usb charger. It normally uses the 12V available at the cigarette jack to output 5v your phone can use. Cheaper ones, can use 8 volts, or 7 volts (lower voltages) because they don't have a circuit to prevent deep discharging the car battery like expensive one have. We need one without this circuit, because our battery pack only outputs 8V. So the car usb charger will take the 8 volts at it's input and give us 5volts at output.
3. before linking cells to each other, you need to charge them to the same voltage. Use a charger/power supply etc. I used a lab. variable power supply, if i had none, my weapon of choice would be a nokia standard wall charger (or another brand), older ones, i would cut off it's jack, expose the wires and connect them to my cells, it outputs 3.7 volts, enough to charge each cell. So charge each cell to about 3.7 volts. You will need to connect the multimeter in parallel to the cell and monitor the charging process. When a cell reaches 3.7 V disconnect it and charge another one, until all of them have 3.7 V. After this, leave the cells for one day. Next day you will be measuring each cell again. If one of them drops charge by it's own and you find.. let's say 3 V, you got a defective one, back to step 1&2 and select other cell pairs. If all cells still have the same aprox. level (somewhere around 3.5 to 3.7 volts) you're good to go.
Here's one cell linked to my voltage supply.
4. start thinking of either a case of something to contain your build. I used copper plated pcb (from electronics stores, radio shack etc). I will be connecting my cells to this thing, kind of like a pcb assembly. You may use some plastic housing and connect the cells with wires and secure them with some glue. If you have experience working with pcb, etching the copper layer and such things, feel free to try using pcb.
Here's my blank pcb for this job - i've already cut it to required dimensions. It's the orange metallic thing in the center. Beside it you can see my hub and the usb car adapter i will use.
5. disassemble (i repeat disassemble.. no more karate skills) your hub (if you're going to use one) and your car usb adapter. My usb adapter looks something like this.
The hub interior will look different, we'll get on that on a later step. Anyway, speaking of the usb car adapter, i'll be needing that small pcb with the components, so i'll remove it from there. The board contains the switching mode voltage converter, yummy yummy, i want that. It basically has 1 chip that generates a pulse signal that is feed to the input of a power transistor which pulses the input voltage across a coil. By autoinduction the coil produces another current, other components rectify and filter it so the second smaller current, produced by the coil, it's basically what powers on the devices connected at the output. In simple terms .. that's how it works. Again.. we need this, don't break it
Mine has a funny oval shaped form, so i'll be cutting my pcb in order to insert it inside.
There are 2 wires coming out of the small board inside. That's were the cigarette jack was connected. We will connect our cell pack to that, so you might wanna remember their position. The red one will be the positive one, black being negative. In a cigarette jack, the center pin is always positive, so if your wires have other colors, the one that's linked to the center pin will be the positive one.
6. Look for a way to place the cells inside your casing or on your pcb. Since i will do a pcb with them, i'm trying to find a possible placement for them.
this was one way, but i figured it was easier for me to simply place each pair on a line and form 2 single lines of cells instead of 3. Once done, i begun drawing the pcb with some paint marker. I will then etch the pcb, so only the paint covered areas will remain.
here's the pcb after etching, i'm connecting various wires to complete the cell pack circuit before connecting the cell themselves.
If you're using some sort of case, it's time to begin assembling your cells together. Use the solder gun or whatever you have for soldering to attach some wires to the each cell leads. Li-ion and heat aren't good friends, be as quick as possible when soldering, you don't want to heat up the cell too much. If it starts to make any strange noise, hiss or is venting anything from it... run away, don't touch it, don't throw it.. simply leave it and run away. Of course, this is a very rare scenario.. but take your safety when working with high reactivity materials like li-ion cells.
You want to arrange the cells in that paint draw up in the post. 2 pairs, linked in series. First solder wires to make one pair, then the other, then connect the pairs to each other. If you use a case, use some insulator to cover the solder points and to avoid some accidental short circuits in the future.
Back to my pcb solution, here's my assembly.
7. If you want to use an usb hub, you can try to salvage some usb port from an old pc or laptop's motherboard. This way you could avoid using a permanently attached wire to the device you're building in order to have the hub connected to the phone. I found an old laptop motherboard with an intact usb jack.
i remove the usb port from it and soldered on my board.
8. Next you need to connect the car usb charger's pcb to the battery pack you assembled. Basically the 2 wires from the charger must be linked with the 2 wires from the battery pack. Insert a switch on the cable in order to be able to turn on and off the whole thing. In my case, i'll now connect the car charger's pcb to my pcb, in the portion i've cut.
9. now you need to modify your hub to be able to power on hd2 during usb hosting mode. There's a link in the linux section (ubuntu for hd2) about this, you may want to read that also. I basically soldered a wire across each hub's usb port positive pin (the 4 usb jacks) and the input usb jack. The ground connection is the same for all jacks. So all jacks including the one used for connecting to a usb host device (pc) have the power pins linked together. Those 2 power pins must also be linked to the output of the usb car charger so that when you power up the thing using the switch, the charger also powers up the usb hub. After you solder all the wires, also insulate the soldering points and secure the hub in your casing along with the battery pack and usb car charger's pcb.
Here's mine, it was soldered on my pcb.
as you can see, there are some couple of wires coming out from it. Those need to be connected to the phone for me to have usb host functionality. So i'll connect these wires to the usb port i've mounted at step 7 so i can use a standard usb - microusb cable to link this thing to the phone. If you want to make it simpler, cut out a usb - microusb cable and directly solder the wires onto the hub's pcb as shown in the guide on the ubuntu linux thread for hd2.
In my case, i use that port i salvaged, as i said before.
10. assemble the whole thing and carefull inspect the connections. The order of this will be - battery pack - linked to the car usb charger - that's linked to the hub power pins (for each usb port). You'll then have one usb port for use when requiring usb host functionality, 4 usb ports for connecting all sort of usb slave devices, and one usb port (the one that it's soldered to the car usb charger) for use when you want to simply charge your device normally.
Here's my build. I've also placed a fuse between the battery and the usb charger, so that in case of malfunction it breaks the circuit. The fuse holding pin is the black thing at the opposite side of the usb hub. Near the pcb, you can see the fuse and it's cap.
11. Check again all connections. when ready, press the switch and bring the thing to life. Use the multimeter and check all usb ports voltage. You shoudn't have more then 5.5Volts and no less then 4.5Volts. If you do, then you did something wrong, turn off, disassemble and recheck. If you did it right, you'll get a voltage inside the above interval. Inspect the device once again and make sure all things are safely placed and secured inside. Try plugging some cheap usb devices you may have, a mouse, usb flashlight, another hub etc. If they receive power and all it's ok you may try to connect the phone.
Voila.. usb charging from the ghetto style external battery.
And here's a small video of preliminary testing (i haven't yet tested the usb hosting capability but i have no reason to think it will not work). At this time i didn't placed any switch on the board so i switch on and off the thing by placing the fuse inside the holder or removing it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf6kRpNNqkw
Next step... maybe some of you may think.. well how does this thing recharge when the batteries are depleted. At this stage the battery pack is recharged by connecting a 8.4 voltage supply across the battery pack leads (wires) but the next logical step will be adding the solar panel to the build and securing this pcb to the back of the panel. Then.. further testing. I'll be keeping the panel and that rectifier diode handy. This is still work in progress.
When are we getting it?
i guess it will take about 1-2 weeks to do the job.
i'm also involved in 2 more projects, it could be done as soon as i finish my automatic dog feeder with video-streaming over internet, food sensors and audio feedback. )
facdemol said:
i guess it will take about 1-2 weeks to do the job.
i'm also involved in 2 more projects, it could be done as soon as i finish my automatic dog feeder with video-streaming over internet, food sensors and audio feedback. )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey facdemol I am not as versed in electronics as you are my friend. So my question to you is this is something that someone with a fair level of intelligents can attempt also? Secound is this, is the list you give in your first post all some one needs to try this? I would really like try this myself and maybe correspond my findings with you. Also thank you totally of you ammazing knowledge filled posts here on XDA.
lol.... Im not sure how to respond to this
Cant wait to see how it turns out, best of luck
sounds interesting!
Good man, keep us updated however things turn out... you sound like someone who isn't afraid of experimenting with electronics for the thrill!
Sent from my Nexus One
Wow! Pretty interesting
Hey facdemol I thought you might like to check this article in the Portal out if you have not already. Looking forward to hearing back from you here on your project.
good article, was inspiring
stage 2 and 3 are completed. Now working to design a high performance dc-dc (switching mode) converter that would take 8.4V input and give me some 5V @ 2.5A output for hd2's charging and the usb hub. Some work needs to be done here and some careful testing, if for whatever reason this converter fails, hd2 motherboard could get fried Working on a way to implement some safeties, also i'm studying the way older pda's and pna's used switching mode power supply's and converters. I'm thinking i could either salvage one of these modules or build one specifically for hd2.
Update : found a way to make this pretty DIY for anyone with basic electronics skill (so that you can avoid designing switching mode converters, making PCB's, winding coils etc).
I found some dirt cheap car adapters that output 5v (pc usb jack) and can be used for various usb charging enabled devices. I'm testing to see their performance with my custom battery pack and the solar panel. Results are pretty good so far, i managed to run them stable at arout 5.5-6Volts input voltage. 2 of these will be required for this project (2 amp max current) or one if the output transistor inside is changed or a heatsink is mounted on it. I will come back with results and in the end, a guide with the required modifications.
The second post contains the updated progress on this project.
Third post will contain some sort of guide for a DIY assembly of such device.
These are updated daily.
If everything goes smooth, i guess i will posting some pictures and guides to build such things, by the end of this day or tomorrow.
Current features of this design :
- 10watt solar panel module
- 14400mAh battery module - cell pack designed as 3p2s
- 2 charge modes (slow - similar to a pc's usb port and fast - similar to hd's wall charger)
- 4 powered usb ports (usb host capable)
- 1 high-power usb port (it can charge any device requiring 5V at around 500mA - 1500mA)
- uses standard usb-microusb cables, no need for other hacks or special cables
- feels geeky
facdemol said:
The second post contains the updated progress on this project.
Third post will contain some sort of guide for a DIY assembly of such device.
These are updated daily.
If everything goes smooth, i guess i will posting some pictures and guides to build such things, by the end of this day or tomorrow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds greet I will bee waiting to see what you have come up with man, this could be something that can change how we can use our HD2s on the go. n
Keep up the good work facdemol, I am also waiting to see if you post any more power consumption results in your other thread.
I would like to ask anyone reading this to help vote this to be published in the XDA portal by clicking the vote bottom at the top right of the first post by facdemol, he deserves recognition for his great work with this project and his others.
Very Interesting ! Good luck with the project! will be following to see what develops!
I love this. Great concept.
it took a while to charge the independent cells to the same level and to form a pack. The charge alignment is a must, otherwise, the battery back will discharge at an uneven rate among each cell. One done properly it should allow the maximum battery life and no future maintenance.
I've done some testing on it, already hooked up the hd2 to this thing, it's working properly, both charging modes, usb host etc. I guess i'll come back today with the guide and pictures to make this, it took the better part of yesterday to manually charge/discharge each of the 6 cells in the pack.
updated post 3, half of the buid is already done and operational. The battery and hub+charger module needs to be linked up to the solar panel and some of case to be built.
There are some pics and one video with the thing working. Just basic testing for now, i just finished it.
Very interesting...great job mate...
DISCLAIMERWhat follows is a modification I did on a non genuine (apparently) HTC AC charger with the european plug, bought from ebay. It includes desoldering and soldering so some experience is needed. For whatever reason, XDA forum and I, cannot be held responsibles for any kind of damage done to your mobile phone or charging equipment. Proceed at your own risk.
So that's the deal, I bought a DHD last month but it came with a UK charger. Using an adaptor made the whole thing really huge and flimsy, so I ordered a european charger from ebay. The thing is that when Im using the UK, Battery Widget Pro reports "AC charging" (800mA max) but on the ebay one it reports "USB charging" (380mA max).
I read this thread the other day and I thought why not give it a shot on this charger. After all, its cheap and I wont have to mess up with wires and USB extensions. Apparently, you have to short the Data wires together and leave them floating.
Step 1) Open the case
This is somewhat difficult. The case does not have any kind of screw so its glued down. In order to open the case without "severe" (cosmetic) damage I used a small vice. Just squeeze gently the upper part of the charger on both sides and you should hear a *clac*. After that using a bit of force and a flat screwdriver, you can open it.
Step 2) Remove the resistors on the Data+ contact
In order to create a dummy USB connection, Data contacts had to be adjusted according to USB specifications. So Data- was grounded and Data+ had a voltage of around 2.1V. Firstly, remove the resistors. Use a desoldering tool, a pump, a pair of pliers, whatever.
Step 3) Remove the PCB trace connecting Data- to ground
This is a bit tricky. As I mentioned before, the Data- is grounded. You must remove the pcb trace. I used a small flat screwdriver used on clockwork repairs to scratch the trace. You have to be patient and careful but it does the trick.
Step 4) Short the Data contacts and close the casing
Thats easy. Just a bit of solder between the middle USB pins (on the pcb side of course). After that close the casing, applying a bit of super glue on the rim. (sorry I didnt take a picture of this )
Thats it! You're done. What we've accomplished you say? Well, on USB charging my phone reported max 380mA. With this mod, it can reach 540mA! Its still not 800mA but its a gain nontheless. The charger is just warm. If it gets burned, I wont care much. As I said, its cheap.
(this is a report of 445mA, I will change it with a better one as soon as I have my phones battery lower )
Attention do this at our own risk as it may damage our phone.
My used samsung galaxy pocket-neo was becoming impossible to charge causing me to break the adapter cables with constant wiggling and balancing acts to get it to work. I took it apart and the micro usb socket looked like an extremely difficult soldering job to replace.
The solution I am using for more than a month with no adverse effects is to cut the plug off and strip the 2 power wires at one end of an old usb cable. There are 4 different coloured wires, red, black, green and white. The green and white wires transmit data, whilst the red and black are the power lines. Red is positive, Black is negative. The sleeve of the cable has a metal mesh which is not necessary for my purposes so I electrical taped it back onto the cable.
The next step is to remove the battery of the phone: I have only done this on phones with removeable batteries. The ones I have used have three terminals; one is plus and one minus, the middle one is for a thermistor in the internal of the battery so that it doesn't overheat. Check the plus and minus with a tester to be sure and look at the way it mounts into the phone. The corresponding terminals in the phone are where I connect the wires.
Now here is the complicated part, - or negative(black) goes to the one negative copper pin in the back of the phone. The positive +(red) wire however needs to bridge the other two pins for reasons that I would like to find out. The white and green wire got taped up seperately to avoid short circuits and I replaced the battery to hold the wires firmly in place and closed the back of the phone. Plug the phone into a charger or external power pack (DC 5v) and it will work fine with no overheating, I suggest this be monitored for a while as it may vary with other hardware.
There may be better ways to do this, as far as I can tell in my case I am not actually charging the battery, instead the phone is running directly from the external power source. The strange thing is that the software(CM11) battery icon slowly discharges and after about 10 hours tells me I need to charge the battery but never turns off and when I restart it is immediately back up to full.
I have tested with a normal cable and the micro usb is still working even though it is still only working when I constantly wiggle the cable, I have cleaned it and as far as I can see its not going to ever work properly.
It would be good to know why the battery does not chargewhen using this method. I imagine it has to do with the internal workings of the phone that control the charging, discharging and battery temperature.
Making the old hardware live longer.
Replacing the micro usb is doable with a hot air gun a pair of tweezers, a clunky spring loaded solder sucker, a flux pen and two pairs of 3.5 x magnification reading glasses. You dont need any fancy rework station or microscope, assuming you have steady hands, reasonably good eyesight, and some soldering experience. I just tried this myself yesterday and fixed and Ace 3 and two S3 mini boards from my junk pile, and while it was a little tricky, it didn't require any brain surgery skills, just care, patience and some previous smd soldering experience.
Proceed as follows, mask off all of the surrounding components with kapton tape, apply lots of flux from your flux pen, then heat the plug carefully, pointing the hot air across the plug and away from the rest of the board. Grab the (hot) metal can of the USB plug with the tweezers, and gently lift it. Only remove the plug when all the solder is melted, and it feels loose, to avoid pulling off any tracks. Remove those tracks, and the phone is for the bin. Next, clear any holes that are required to mount the new plug, take care at this stage, as it is imperative that the replacement plug sits flush on the board otherwise the pins on the plug, wont touch the pads on the board, and worse still, you wont get the case back on at the end of the process.
To fit the new socket, clean the pads... no really clean them.... now make sure they are clean, and then flux them and tin them. Fit the new plug, and check that it sits flush to the board. Tack down one metal lug only on the can of the new plug. Check again that the pins are lined up, and carefully drag solder them. Check for shorts. Check again... clean the pads and check again. If you are happy, tack down the remaining three lugs, make sure they are flush and that there are no blobs of solder on the tops of them. Clean the board again. Test... Profit
Total time including additional swearing, re-cleaning... re-re-cleaning and re-fitting.. about 30 minutes and two strong coffees.
The replacement USB plugs are readily available on ebay typically around the £2 ($3) mark, but there are several different styles, and they are different, so make sure you use the correct one for your board.
Now back to your question... why does your battery not charge when you tack the wires to it... simple... it is trying its best not to explode. The USB port provides 5V, but the battery needs between 2.8 and 4.2 vots.. depending on its current state of charge, and this is what the charge controller chip within the phone provides. Anything else and the protection circuit kicks in.
I suggest if you don't fancy repairing the USB plug yourself, you get one of those cheap "universal" usb phone chargers from China, they cost about the same as the replacement USB plug, but are (marginally) less likely to blow up your battery.
itsthatidiotagain said:
Now back to your question... why does your battery not charge when you tack the wires to it... simple... it is trying its best not to explode. The USB port provides 5V, but the battery needs between 2.8 and 4.2 vots.. depending on its current state of charge, and this is what the charge controller chip within the phone provides. Anything else and the protection circuit kicks in.
I suggest if you don't fancy repairing the USB plug yourself, you get one of those cheap "universal" usb phone chargers from China, they cost about the same as the replacement USB plug, but are (marginally) less likely to blow up your battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good description of the soldering job, the samsung pocket neo is very small but I look forward to having a go at fixing it properly one day, I dont yet have a magnifying glass or solder sucker, but I want to get them. Without these tools the job would be near impossible.
Little update: the phone is charging, I have disconected it and it holds its charge nicely, the internal software just doesn't register the trickle charge it is recieving, I have loads of old chargers and new usb cables and my old second hand phones micro usb port is way too damaged to work anymore with any charger. I use it as a modem principally, so it is connected every day and providing wifi to multiple devices and has no problems with over heating. Now nearly two months have passed and it works fine. Using this method it is possible to completely remove the battery as well. The phone is running directly off the 5 volt power with no ill effects.
It would be convienient to connect it directly to a pc in usb debug mode occasionally, and this is a very good reason for eventually fixing the usb plug.:good:
I have a VS995 and this replacement battery. I'm getting less than 2 hours of SOT with both Lineage 18.1 offical and the new project lighthouse ROM at less than 50% brightness. I have greenify and ACC installed with magisk as well as no gapps. Any idea how to fix the drain?
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Hello ROMSG,
Can you confirm the battery is drained vs being read as drained? You could try measuring the voltage on battery contacts before and after to confirm.
Or, since this would not hurt, without even confirming, for fun, try and clean out your USB port and the C end of the USB cable with strong alcohol, and then compressed air. Dry for sure - leave it in the sun for a while laying on or right next to some table salt.
Why:
I just finished analyzing a thread with unrelated issue, but there, it seems to me that bad USB port was causing get this: low reading from otherwise good battery (or actually create a drain - dark current on the USB connector itself). No idea why, but must be connected somehow.
I had re-soldered USB port twice in the past and once the power switch on my own devices, so it would not surprise me at all that those internal components would fail. And I am kind of super precise in how insert the cable, just time, I guess.
Funny how things work. Today I received a phone I bought from eBay for $50, because it was "Google FRP Locked". Mint black H918, no water damage. I thought I'd use the LGUP to re-load the software and may-be make it work, or something, you know, for practice learning about this stuff.
Well, it would not boot past the T-Mobile screen. Finally I made it boot to Factory Reset screen, pressed YES and it went black. No more boot, as it reported the battery (which was about 70% full before this) is now at 0%.
From 70% to 0% in a few unsuccessful boot attempts? Wow, that's really something. It did not get hot.. So, where all that energy went? I mean how did it dissipate 11.9 x 0.7 = 8.33 Wh ? It took about 15 minutes if that, so it was dissipating at 4 x 8.33 = 33.32 Wh speed without even getting hot? That's insane.
Anyway, the USB connector looks horrid, and the charge percentage is going ON and OFF when in the USB cable is in it. The USB cable feels loose in the port.
I tried cleaning but it is too far gone. I am going to replace the USB connector with a new one.
But do you see, again, the same link between discharging the battery / bad USB port and boot-loops? If true, this means that there might be a sea of perfectly good phones on eBay, just with bad USB connectors, boot-looping and eating batteries. Re-solder the USB port and you're good to go!
I would be excited to find out what was your result.
Descent2 said:
Funny how things work. Today I received a phone I bought from eBay for $50, because it was "Google FRP Locked". Mint black H918, no water damage. I thought I'd use the LGUP to re-load the software and may-be make it work, or something, you know, for practice learning about this stuff.
Well, it would not boot past the T-Mobile screen. Finally I made it boot to Factory Reset screen, pressed YES and it went black. No more boot, as it reported the battery (which was about 70% full before this) is now at 0%.
From 70% to 0% in a few unsuccessful boot attempts? Wow, that's really something. It did not get hot.. So, where all that energy went? I mean how did it dissipate 11.9 x 0.7 = 8.33 Wh ? It took about 15 minutes if that, so it was dissipating at 4 x 8.33 = 33.32 Wh speed without even getting hot? That's insane.
Anyway, the USB connector looks horrid, and the charge percentage is going ON and OFF when in the USB cable is in it. The USB cable feels loose in the port.
I tried cleaning but it is too far gone. I am going to replace the USB connector with a new one.
But do you see, again, the same link between discharging the battery / bad USB port and boot-loops? If true, this means that there might be a sea of perfectly good phones on eBay, just with bad USB connectors, boot-looping and eating batteries. Re-solder the USB port and you're good to go!
I would be excited to find out what was your result.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lg up typically causes battery drain but not like what you described. Also reflashing wont fix frp in all cases, since the versions of android on these devices is so old frp bypasses are typically a better route. I know from expierence.
LGUP does that? How weird, why? This one is also a bug, most likely.
Thank you for the tips! I had no idea. I just wanted to try different things and see what works. Typically, I'd drop my phone like in a carwash and crack the screen. So, now that I am a little smarter, I try to buy many hardware backup pieces before I need them. So this is essentially an extra screen. But since it works, why not brick it, right? Learn something along the way.
Nevertheless, I need all the hints I can get. Not a pro here by any means. Do you know of any FRP bypass method you thin works good on H918?
Since you're not new to this, would you mind if I start a conversation with you? I need answers to a couple of questions that seem to be omitted everywhere or I can't find where they are discussed.
Also can't wait to find out if you have found the USB port to be the cause of your power drain or if you found it not to be related.
Descent2 said:
LGUP does that? How weird, why? This one is also a bug, most likely.
Thank you for the tips! I had no idea. I just wanted to try different things and see what works. Typically, I'd drop my phone like in a carwash and crack the screen. So, now that I am a little smarter, I try to buy many hardware backup pieces before I need them. So this is essentially an extra screen. But since it works, why not brick it, right? Learn something along the way.
Nevertheless, I need all the hints I can get. Not a pro here by any means. Do you know of any FRP bypass method you thin works good on H918?
Since you're not new to this, would you mind if I start a conversation with you? I need answers to a couple of questions that seem to be omitted everywhere or I can't find where they are discussed.
Also can't wait to find out if you have found the USB port to be the cause of your power drain or if you found it not to be related.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What version of android is your h918 on? I'm happy to answer any questions you have.
Hi Guys,
Mine was F800L, and it seems like it have the same problem, bad connector. Even though I unplug the battery, when I plug the charger, it's drain 0.3-0.7 Amps, and it's get hot without turning on.
I am a little scary to desolder the usb port.
Yes xdanubi, replacing the USB port is a tricky deal. I have replaced few USB ports before, and this time I had only two jobs: replace a power switch on one phone and the USB port on H918. I did the power switch soldering job without issues, and I ruined the H918 in my attempt to replace the USB port.
What went wrong:
-My work setup was too low magnification for the H918 job. I should have upgraded to a higher magnification first, but instead I pushed ahead hoping that my sharp eyesight will haul me out as usual.
-I used ChipQuick Low Melt solder paste to mix in with the original solder in order to drop the temperature when removing the port. This was a mistake. The paste produced several independently moving micro solder balls and they run around uninhibited and I did not notice that until too late when I was examining the empty board using high magnification hand held loupe after removing the port. I should have used a Low Temp solder in a metallic form at this stage. That would not create the solder balls. Why didn't I use the metallic low temp solder? I had it at hand! Because the magnification was too low for this job and I did not feel comfortable enough to precisely apply the metallic form. Applying the paste from a syringe is easier when the work area observation is limited.
-I have not washed the board in alcohol prior to starting the job. What this did is even though I have applied the MG Pink Peelable Solder Mask jelly to the area next to repair zone to seal and protect all of the surrounding components, the flux from the solder paste still lifted the peelable mask and allowed the metal balls to run under it to get stuck to some of the smallest components. I should have thoroughly wash/brush the repair area with 97% alcohol and dry before applying the Peelable Solder Mask to have it adhere better.
All in all, I was too confident I can do it because I have done that several times in the past. Things got a lot smaller since then. This USB port on V20 is surrounded by a number of smallest components I have ever seen in SMD, and one needs to have his tools and procedures just right to get thru this. My second H918 is now what i purchased it for - just a bunch of parts.
This doesn't mean you should not try to get it done. Just be aware of particular difficulties, and get your tools, and understand every step of your procedure as you design it and know exactly why you are taking it. Also, some people always seem to get it done just on pure luck, you may just be one of them. I think if you heed my warnings and account for what I did wrong, watch few good videos and practice a little on some dead boards, you'll be all right.
Here are my measurements of power consumption from a working H918 for a comparison:
Battery removed.
Phone is connected to USB charger
Mini screen has a light gray backlight and is clearly separate from the main screen which remains black.
A battery symbol with flashing red question mark is displayed on the main screen
Phone OFF and does not start when I use the power button.
Temperature does nor rise, phone stays cold.
Current: 0.25 - 0.27 A
79% Battery is installed and charged to 85%
Phone is connected to USB charger
Both screens are black.
A battery symbol is displayed on main screen with percentage of charge and green fill.
Phone OFF but will start when I use the power button.
Temperature does nor rise, phone stays cold.
Current: 0.48 -> -> 0.37 A
85% Battery is installed and continuously charged
Phone is connected to USB charger
Both screens are black (power button press is needed to display battery charging percentage)
Phone is OFF
Temperature on power button is 30 C
Phone was OFF but is now started using the power button. Booting.
Both screens are ON
Temperature on power button is 32 C
Current: 0.60 A
Phone is ON and is in Airplane mode.
Both screen are ON
Temperature on power button is 31 C
Current: 0.47 A (Battery is now at 89%)
Hope this helps
I think your current measurements are OK. But your temperature is not OK. Try to see where the heat is coming from? IS it coming from, the CPU (felt on power button) or the USB port? In your case it would not be the battery since it is removed. It should not be the CPU either since the phone hasn't been started. I am not all that clear still on what exactly in the USB area creates the heat. It would be awesome if you could produce an InfraRed picture of the phone with the back cover off while being hot while still OFF without battery and on charger. If you have an access to the IR camera like FLIR. It may not necessarily be the port itself or it's connections. It could be one of those small SMD components next to the port that gone bad, and if that is true, replacing only the port won't help.
Descent2 said:
Here are my measurements of power consumption from a working H918 for a comparison:
Battery removed.
Phone is connected to USB charger
Mini screen has a light gray backlight and is clearly separate from the main screen which remains black.
A battery symbol with flashing red question mark is displayed on the main screen
Phone OFF and does not start when I use the power button.
Temperature does nor rise, phone stays cold.
Current: 0.25 - 0.27 A
79% Battery is installed and charged to 85%
Phone is connected to USB charger
Both screens are black.
A battery symbol is displayed on main screen with percentage of charge and green fill.
Phone OFF but will start when I use the power button.
Temperature does nor rise, phone stays cold.
Current: 0.48 -> -> 0.37 A
85% Battery is installed and continuously charged
Phone is connected to USB charger
Both screens are black (power button press is needed to display battery charging percentage)
Phone is OFF
Temperature on power button is 30 C
Phone was OFF but is now started using the power button. Booting.
Both screens are ON
Temperature on power button is 32 C
Current: 0.60 A
Phone is ON and is in Airplane mode.
Both screen are ON
Temperature on power button is 31 C
Current: 0.47 A (Battery is now at 89%)
Hope this helps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the reference. Clearly, mine has hardware problems, because even after doing factory reset, the problems persist. Tried to flash the stock pie kdz, still the same result. Without battery, the current drraw arround 0.6A, with battery plugged the phone off around 1.3A, and with phone on can be as high as 1,9A.
One thing that I am still doubt about the problem though, that the usb port still functioning, both for charging and data transfer. But the strange part, when the phone is off, whenever I plugged the usb, the phone boot up, both on PC usb or charger only.
The other strange part was that when the phone got realy hot (I measure 54 with IR gun, and around 60 reading the /sys/class/thermal/thermal_zonexx/temp file, the lower part around usb port keep cool, it is the upper part that get hot.
Descent2 said:
Yes xdanubi, replacing the USB port is a tricky deal. I have replaced few USB ports before, and this time I had only two jobs: replace a power switch on one phone and the USB port on H918. I did the power switch soldering job without issues, and I ruined the H918 in my attempt to replace the USB port.
What went wrong:
-My work setup was too low magnification for the H918 job. I should have upgraded to a higher magnification first, but instead I pushed ahead hoping that my sharp eyesight will haul me out as usual.
-I used ChipQuick Low Melt solder paste to mix in with the original solder in order to drop the temperature when removing the port. This was a mistake. The paste produced several independently moving micro solder balls and they run around uninhibited and I did not notice that until too late when I was examining the empty board using high magnification hand held loupe after removing the port. I should have used a Low Temp solder in a metallic form at this stage. That would not create the solder balls. Why didn't I use the metallic low temp solder? I had it at hand! Because the magnification was too low for this job and I did not feel comfortable enough to precisely apply the metallic form. Applying the paste from a syringe is easier when the work area observation is limited.
-I have not washed the board in alcohol prior to starting the job. What this did is even though I have applied the MG Pink Peelable Solder Mask jelly to the area next to repair zone to seal and protect all of the surrounding components, the flux from the solder paste still lifted the peelable mask and allowed the metal balls to run under it to get stuck to some of the smallest components. I should have thoroughly wash/brush the repair area with 97% alcohol and dry before applying the Peelable Solder Mask to have it adhere better.
All in all, I was too confident I can do it because I have done that several times in the past. Things got a lot smaller since then. This USB port on V20 is surrounded by a number of smallest components I have ever seen in SMD, and one needs to have his tools and procedures just right to get thru this. My second H918 is now what i purchased it for - just a bunch of parts.
This doesn't mean you should not try to get it done. Just be aware of particular difficulties, and get your tools, and understand every step of your procedure as you design it and know exactly why you are taking it. Also, some people always seem to get it done just on pure luck, you may just be one of them. I think if you heed my warnings and account for what I did wrong, watch few good videos and practice a little on some dead boards, you'll be all right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a bad eyesight and only have a cheap magnifying glass, so maybe not now. Might as well buy another v20, because the cheapest trinocular still more expensive than that phone.
Descent2 said:
I think your current measurements are OK. But your temperature is not OK. Try to see where the heat is coming from? IS it coming from, the CPU (felt on power button) or the USB port? In your case it would not be the battery since it is removed. It should not be the CPU either since the phone hasn't been started. I am not all that clear still on what exactly in the USB area creates the heat. It would be awesome if you could produce an InfraRed picture of the phone with the back cover off while being hot while still OFF without battery and on charger. If you have an access to the IR camera like FLIR. It may not necessarily be the port itself or it's connections. It could be one of those small SMD components next to the port that gone bad, and if that is true, replacing only the port won't help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sadly though, I don't have access to any IR cam. I do indeed try cheaper method "ouweee" test like Rossmann did, first using bare finger, then using a some drop of IPA and see where the particular component that dried up first.
As far as I can tell, the below area near charging port were fine. nothing dried up fast in the small component area near simcard, and the small component area under the fingerprint sensor. The one that heated up fast was the most left area covered with shield.
So I don't know weather it's still usb port problems or other hardware problem.
On V20, the CPU is just like on PC, is attached to the board, but touching a metal heatsink (which is the internal frame) with a healp from some pink glob of crappy looking thermo paste. Actually, the CPU itself is covered tightly with a memory chip soldered right on top of the CPU, and the roof of that is sticky-glued to a copper foil, and then that copper foil is covered with the paste glob and that is stuck to the frame.
Few points to note right here:
- the reason that V20 has thermal issues, I think, is due to poor thermal design: three interfaces (CPU --> memory chip --> copper foil --> metal frame heatsink), and each has some less than 100% efficiency in thermal energy conductivity. There might even be a fourth interface if the CPU has a lid, like that on PC, but unlikely so, most probably it's an exposed one like on the graphics cards.
- each of these thermal interfaces has it's own expiration date. At this point in time, you don't know how many of them are expired.
- hardware guys already are doubtful about the goofy looking "thermal solution" paste that is applied between copper film and the frame. How efficient was it to begin with?
- if you had removed the board before, or if you had dropped the phone when this paste was already dried up, it is very likely that it has de-touched from the frame and there is an air gap. Typically this is not how a phone is designed and this is a surprise to some folks.
What ideally needs to be done is the memory chip needs to be removed, the interface conduction layer renewed, and chip needs to be soldered back. Then the renewal needs to be carried out with respect to the second and third interface as well.
Without having to solder anything, you can relatively easily replace / thinker with the second and especially the third interface. The second will require the copper foil to be peeled off. On the phone I ruined, I threw that foil away, intending to go directly from memory chip roof to the frame, but alas, I didn't get to try that. I think that the high efficiency thermal conductive solutions such as liquid metal or diamond pastes are not good here, because there is the reason the LG used the glob of chewing gum it seems - because the interface between the roof of the memory chip and the frame lacks the close tolerance required for a high efficiency conduit to work. Plus the phone has some flex to it, so even if yours happen to be aligned extremely tightly, this would keep changing. For this reason, I think the thermal conduit needs to be a high volume / flexible one, like that again, on the graphics cards. This could be a thick paste or a sticky pad.
The reason they used the copper foil and not a direct connection between the chip and the frame, I think was because the interface between the roof of the memory chip and the copper foil is more precise and is much more flex stable, so, by using a higher efficiency / thinner conduit there they were aiming to help the total efficiency at least a little bit.
I wanted to clean the roof of the memory chip and use some good video card thermal paste / goo / glue / pad directly connecting it to the frame during re-assembly.
I think this is what you can try to do as well. You can leave the copper foil there for now, and try just the third interface. If your results are not significant, then try and remove the foil as well. None of this will require soldering or a high magnification equipment. Just some patience, alcohol, a steady hand and at least a PC experience with the same.
Be careful with the screws. The screws are all different length, and when I opened mine I was following a guidance that there are two groups, but found it to be wrong as my phone seemed to have at least four groups of different screws. It was too late, however, because mine were already mixed within two groups I created. So, I would advise to create a diagram of screw location and keeping track of which screw goes where. I think that many times this phone is taken apart and put together, without this tracking, some screws end up too long for where they were placed and holding parts loosely, thus adding to the flex that might be cracking the older brittle thermal interface.
Frame Thermal Interface Touch Point:
Peeling Off the Copper Foil:
Copper Foil is Removed - Roof of the Memory Exposed :
xdanubi said:
Might as well buy another v20, because the cheapest trinocular still more expensive than that phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely. The 20x binocular from AmScope on ebay is around $190. Since Iam only an amateur, I am considering building a DIY usb webcam based microscope like the one EEV blog had reviewed or better. Reading about optics now, - I am an absolute newbie to optics design.
Amazon has this phone "new" for $70 with varying reviews. Might just try that, since on e-bay or Swappa you'd likely get a phone someone from XDA already "worked with" for a while.
I too am baffled with why some phones do turn on spontaneously when charger is connected. From my experience with PCs, this usually indicates:
-- bad BIOS battery
(is there a BIOS battery cell on a phone? Yes, I know there was one on Galaxy, maybe there is one on V20 as well?) This would not generate any heat though.
-- bad corrupted BIOS
(we are on XDA, lol. Should we really try throwing this stone?) But really, maybe a full reflashing should help? I mean a complete, like a full KDZ, not just wiping of data partition which is what a factory reset really is. BUT YOU ALREADY TRIED THIS
-- some dried out capacitors around power on circuits (this one can create heat)
Again, FLIR is needed for this. Or careful thermal probing of SMD components with board being fully connected while outside of the case and plastic housing. Once a hot one is found this could be examined further.
Some research directions here...
xdanubi said:
The one that heated up fast was the most left area covered with shield.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could you show which area was heating up:
xdanubi said:
Without battery, the current draw is around 0.6A, with battery plugged the phone off around 1.3A, and with phone on can be as high as 1,9A.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You clearly have about 0.3 A to 0.6 A dark current. Something is consuming this energy and dissipating it into heat. When capacitors are shot they now represent a short on the circuit where there not supposed to be one. Such short will now create this dark current.
Capacitors fail due to old age, high heat (vicious circle), and bad power supplies that deliver spikes and poorly filtered power. Big electrolytic capacitors dry out, explode, leak, but SMD capacitors fail too - they crack and melt.
Code:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IciwMsWX_Y4
There could be other failed components, it's just that capacitors are ubiquitous in this regard.
Descent2 said:
- if you had removed the board before, or if you had dropped the phone when this paste was already dried up, it is very likely that it has de-touched from the frame and there is an air gap. Typically this is not how a phone is designed and this is a surprise to some folks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do remove the board, to see if there's any clear evidence of burned/short capacitors. And indeed I do have the urge to remove that pinky gummy blob, and ad some PC's cpu paste to it. But the fact that I still feel a good heat to the screen area directly below it, it means that it's still have some good heat conductivity, so I'll leave that to deal with it later.
Descent2 said:
What ideally needs to be done is the memory chip needs to be removed, the interface conduction layer renewed, and chip needs to be soldered back. Then the renewal needs to be carried out with respect to the second and third interface as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's one hell of BGA rework.
Descent2 said:
I think this is what you can try to do as well. You can leave the copper foil there for now, and try just the third interface. If your results are not significant, then try and remove the foil as well. None of this will require soldering or a high magnification equipment. Just some patience, alcohol, a steady hand and at least a PC experience with the same.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you, I'll do it later after clearing some other problems.
PC built on ASUS M5A78L-M/USB3 motherboard with 8 GB RAM and AMD Phenom II X4 Black Edition 965 processor.
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Since I don't need all the drives at the same time for archiving, I reworked the SATA cables to turn off the 5 V and 12 V power on switches located outside the case.
I need to find a way to move the drives away from each other. Currently, the ATX plug is taking up space.
Probably a low profile angled plug is needed.
For backup I would use removable hdds trays or a stand alone plug in socket base.
Having all your backup discs in one location is asking for it. One near lightning strike, power surge, fire, etc could wipe out everything.
Malware is also a threat.
Make sure the PC case is earth grounded. That may save it from a near lightning strike. A hefty surge protector is also recommended. Optical toshlink to the internet source whenever possible. No internet connection increases security significantly though.
A earth grounded fire box, safe, an ammo can or a safety deposit box for backups in multiple locations. Never encrypt data drives.
Never allow anything with a permanent magnet or strong electromagnetic fields to get near the hdds. That includes bookshelf speakers
Putting the switches on a little PCB with Molex sockets for in and out on a little 3.5" blank panel would sure be spiffy.
Still, I'm not so hot on physically cutting the power to the drives.
Thanks for the good advices.
1. I never use PC during backup when a storm is approaching.
2. The PC power supply is permanently turned off. I turn it on before using it.
3. The PC for backup is connected to a router on the home network without internet access.
4. I write archive data to this PC via LAN from external devices, not the other way around.
5. When the most valuable data is complete, I copy it to 25 GB BD-R.
Renate said:
Putting the switches on a little PCB with Molex sockets for in and out on a little 3.5" blank panel would sure be spiffy.
Still, I'm not so hot on physically cutting the power to the drives.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SATA's are hot plugable. No harm, no foul.
I do it all the time, just make sure the write/read cycle has completed.
IDE however would puke all over you if you did that though
Renate said:
Putting the switches on a little PCB with Molex sockets for in and out on a little 3.5" blank panel would sure be spiffy.
Still, I'm not so hot on physically cutting the power to the drives.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your comments.
The choice and placement of the switches is supported by the ease of implementation and the lack of contraindications. However, the drives must not be turned on or off while the PC is running.
I am the only user of this system, so I did it with minimal effort.
I thought about the switches on the front panel, but there was not much space with free access in the case I had.
blackhawk said:
SATA's are hot plugable. No harm, no foul.
I do it all the time, just make sure the write/read cycle has completed.
IDE however would puke all over you if you did that though
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, however, during hot power-up the switches may cause unstable voltage values to appear.
I don't want to shock the drives.
We are talking about the 5/12 volt power supply, of course.
ze7zez said:
Thanks for the good advices.
1. I never use PC during backup when a storm is approaching.
2. The PC power supply is permanently turned off. I turn it on before using it.
3. The PC for backup is connected to a router on the home network without internet access.
4. I write archive data to this PC via LAN from external devices, not the other way around.
5. When the most valuable data is complete, I copy it to 25 GB BD-R.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
BD-R etc can fail over time. Always use at least two hdds in addition to the BD-R. I prefer using enterprise class hdds. Data retainment can exceed 10 years on hdds but best to rewrite it every 2-3 years.
-Always- bring up to room temperature before spinning it up. Lower storage temperatures enhance memory retention. Protect from ESD at all times. Protect from moisture, high humidity, high temperatures when storing. Always protect from vibration and physical shock when spun up!
Time stagger backup on across different hdds.
I have over a dozen hdds and flash drives I use for data backup. You can never have too many backups; you may lose some data but never all.
ze7zez said:
OK, however, during hot power-up the switches may cause unstable voltage values to appear.
I don't want to shock the drives.
We are talking about the 5/12 volt power supply, of course.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Shouldn't be a issue. Keep the hdds on a different power rail then the mobo and graphics card. Make sure that hdd rail is not overloaded.
blackhawk said:
Shouldn't be a issue. Keep the hdds on a different power rail then the mobo and graphics card. Make sure that hdd rail is not overloaded.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The graphics card is placed directly on the M5A78L-M/USB3, which is powered by an ATX connector. I did the calculation of the power supply load at the very beginning and there will be no problem with the drives, especially since I do not use all the drives at the same time.
The SATA controller on this board allows you to use the disks in RAID 0, Raid 1 and RAID 10 mode, but I'm not interested in that for now.
ze7zez said:
The graphics card is placed directly on the M5A78L-M/USB3, which is powered by an ATX connector. I did the calculation of the power supply load at the very beginning and there will be no problem with the drives, especially since I do not use all the drives at the same time.
The SATA controller on this board allows you to use the disks in RAID 0, Raid 1 and RAID 10 mode, but I'm not interested in that for now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Use RAID for the OS (RAiD 0) and primary data (RAID 1) drives only if you chose to do so. The last thing you want to do is repeat the same mistake on all your backup data drives so avoid using RAID on them.
NEVER clone data drives, copy/paste only then verify size and if readable. Never encrypt data drives as you are the one most likely to get locked out.
Make a bootable cloned copy of the OS drive once configured but before any antivirus has been installed. Acronis does this easily.
One option to consider would be to use SATA cables with 90-degree connectors. This would allow the cables to lay flat against the motherboard and reduce the amount of space they take up. Another option would be to use SATA cables with shorter connectors, which would also help to reduce the amount of space they take up.
As for the ATX plug, a low-profile angled plug could be a good solution. Another option would be to use a cable extension or a custom cable that is designed to be routed in a way that does not interfere with the hard drives.
In general, when organizing hard drives in a computer case, it's a good idea to use drive cages or brackets that are designed for the specific case you are using. This can help to keep the drives securely in place and prevent them from vibrating or moving around during operation. Additionally, using cable ties or other cable management solutions can help to keep the cables organized and reduce clutter inside the case.
anawilliam850 said:
Spoiler: post
One option to consider would be to use SATA cables with 90-degree connectors. This would allow the cables to lay flat against the motherboard and reduce the amount of space they take up. Another option would be to use SATA cables with shorter connectors, which would also help to reduce the amount of space they take up.
As for the ATX plug, a low-profile angled plug could be a good solution. Another option would be to use a cable extension or a custom cable that is designed to be routed in a way that does not interfere with the hard drives.
In general, when organizing hard drives in a computer case, it's a good idea to use drive cages or brackets that are designed for the specific case you are using. This can help to keep the drives securely in place and prevent them from vibrating or moving around during operation. Additionally, using cable ties or other cable management solutions can help to keep the cables organized and reduce clutter inside the case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the useful advice.
My goal was to create a server for home use based on the components I have. The low-profile 24-pin ATX plug is not low enough to be suitable. Its cost is also not encouraging. I removed the rivets from the basket and moved the basket away from the motherboard. The drives need to have good heat dissipation, so by moving the basket away I was able to increase the space between the drives. Because of the thermal insulation, anti-vibration pads require active drive cooling, which would cause unacceptable and unnecessary noise from the fan.
The use of drive power switches eliminates the reciprocal effect of drive vibrations on each other, since not all of them work at the same time, but only the ones needed.
My server does not run continuously, so the effect of vibration on the life of the drives is negligible.
ze7zez said:
Thank you for the useful advice.
My goal was to create a server for home use based on the components I have. The low-profile 24-pin ATX plug is not low enough to be suitable. Its cost is also not encouraging. I removed the rivets from the basket and moved the basket away from the motherboard. The drives need to have good heat dissipation, so by moving the basket away I was able to increase the space between the drives. Because of the thermal insulation, anti-vibration pads require active drive cooling, which would cause unacceptable and unnecessary noise from the fan.
The use of drive power switches eliminates the reciprocal effect of drive vibrations on each other, since not all of them work at the same time, but only the ones needed.
My server does not run continuously, so the effect of vibration on the life of the drives is negligible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bundle wires and cables and run them out of the way along the case corners, edges of mobo. Preferably in space behind the mobo mounting partition when possible; completely out of the way/sight and protected, perfect for power cables. Excess cables lengths can be stashed here.
Use wire ties and split loom tubing.
Get rid of the loose wires by bundling them into cables. Lay the cables out so they're out of the air flow paths.
Take all sata cables down one side and to the mobo along the case corners on the mobo mounting side. Use right angle turns in the cables and edge mounting rather than have floating in the air.
Fan push/pull if practical*, either way get 2 low db fans for the back. Get maximum airflow over the hdds and mobo. Make sure the power supply gets enough cool air. Use homemade partitions if needed to direct air flow more efficiently.
* pay attention to airflow, eliminate wire obstacles, probably all fans should be pulling out air so it flows in from the front. User adjustable fan speed helps to make balancing the flow pattern easier.
It is not easy to buy long power cables adapting Molex to SATA, hence it is not possible to arrange cables arbitrarily as you rightly propose.
I didn't want to extend (solder) the cables, so I bought the longest 37 cm that were available on the aftermarket.
The setup is still in expansion, so I'll do the joining of the sata cables together at the very end, after testing the operating temperature of all the drives running simultaneously under the load of copying data over the LAN at room temperature set at 23 °C.
The photo doesn't show it, but the side cover of the chassis has a fan mounted with a tube facing the CPU.
The power supply pulls warm air outside and draws in cooler air from around the PC through the holes seen in the photo with the drive power switches.
As you can see from the photo, I'm missing the optical drive connection, which may or may not be useful. Perhaps I will also add an SSD drive.
So I will need to reposition the 1TB drive and attach the optical drive to a SATA controller on a PCIe x1 port. I am considering buying a controller with two SATA ports based on the ASM1062 chipset or a twice as expensive one with four SATA ports on the ASM1064 chipset.
The top fan is not giving the bay rack good airflow as it's bypassing them because of the open rear grills. Either close/partially close them or install fans pulling air out.
Balance the fan speed(s) so they don't work against each other.
blackhawk said:
(...)
Balance the fan speed(s) so they don't work against each other.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you mean the fan on the processor and the side fan from the tube, I have no idea how to do it.
I can read the speed of the fan on the CPU and I can plug the speed controller into the side fan, but I don't know what the principle of cooperation is, I suspect that rather the amount of air flow decides, which is practically not easy to determine.
ze7zez said:
If you mean the fan on the processor and the side fan from the tube, I have no idea how to do it.
I can read the speed of the fan on the CPU and I can plug the speed controller into the side fan, but I don't know what the principle of cooperation is, I suspect that rather the amount of air flow decides, which is practically not easy to determine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Disregard that statement... the processor, ram sticks, graphics card and hdds have cooling priority. Make sure the hdds are getting good airflow...
My favorite Antec case had a bottom mounted PS with a wind tunnel.