Related
Okay, I'm assuming you all bought your hero's for what it was capable of when you bought it, seeing as there were no confirmed updates from HTC and even Google scheduled yet, so why does the majority get annoyed when their phone misses out on the latest 2.2 update? It still has all the features you bought it for. Any update at all is a positive, no update is neutral since your phone didn't lose anything, it just didn't gain anything either. Besides the fact that our Hero's already have basic flash support and are ahead of most devices in functionality just because it was ahead of its time when it got released?
I am somewhere in the middle: somewhat content with my Android 1.5 Hero and somewhat annoyed at the lack of updates. I think the trouble all comes down to convergence. Let me toss a couple thoughts your way. Generally speaking, in the recent past people have:
1) Paid full price for a computer (laptop, desktop, etc) and then promptly go out at get what ever Internet service provider they want (cable DSL) etc. The computer works on any network.
2) Paid a reduced price for mobile phones for the trade off of signing a contract and being tied to a particular provider. In many cases, only certain phones are available on certain networks. This is the complete opposite of the computer case in #1
3) Expected that their computer will be upgradeable (for a fee) over the years, at least until the hardware becomes obsolete. I know I've had XP, Vista, and Windows 7 on the same machine.
4) Expected that if they wanted new features on a phone, they would need to get a new phone.
Now the phones and computers are, too some extent, converging into one device. If I use my Android phone to check email, twitter, facebook, etc and never make voice calls - is it really a phone? No, it is just another Internet connected device for which my expectations are typically that I can upgrade the device until the hardware becomes obsolete. I didn't necessarily say that should be free, but it should be possible.
Another aspect that people expect of their computers, is that they can load virtually any application designed for that OS. Even today, most applications (if not all?) written for Windows 7 still run on XP. With Android, the applications seem to have been tied to the OS. For example, with my 1.5 phone I still can't use Google Voice search or Google Goggles? Why? My phone has a camera and a microphone, but for some reason you need to have 1.6 for them. Same for the free Google Navigation. You need to have a later version - just to run an application.
Again, I am somewhere in the middle. I have been VERY pleased with my HTC Hero. At the same time, I sure would like Google Voice search, Navigation, multiple gmail accounts, etc. I might even be willing to pay to update it (much like Apple makes people pay for iPod Touch updates). But shelling out $600 for a new phone (I buy unlocked - which is much cheaper for me in the long run) for those features does not seem worth it.
The lesson learned might be to always by the Google phone (i.e. Nexus One or whatever comes next). Google are responsible for pushing out those updates and it seems to happen fast!
I bouth my Hero after I saw the HTC tweet that they are working on the 2.1.
Update from 2.1 to 2.2 is a natural function of Android - it's OTA friendly. If a manufacturer declares Android, it declares everything what goes with it. If they don't want to spend time on such minor updates as 2.2, they should declare that as well: Android without updates. And they have not. So people are angry for not getting what they expect. And the expectatons are absolutely reasonable. That's why I will NOT buy any other HTC device. I learned that they dont't treat us, customers, fairly. They are going to do the same exact thing with the Desire as well. Not going down that path again.
I personally haven't heard one person moaning about not getting 2.2.
But people are expecting 2.1 due to no updates being given on the OS since the handset was released. Hero users were promised a long time ago that we would be getting 2.1 due to 1.6 being skipped, whereas other, lower spec models had that update.
You don't know what functionality will be added two updates later, so not having them is neutral, no one is oblidged to update their products and they can be discontinued whenever they wish. Does it matter? No, you got the phone based on the features it had when you bought it, the phone doesn't all of a sudden get worse because it didn't get an update.
I for one will purchase another HTC device when I'm done with my hero, simply because they deliver the best product with the best feature set regarding android, if updates are slow oh well, I buy phones for what they are capable of at the time of purchase since I can't look into the future, and neither can you.
So - all you set out to do with your original post was anger people and not take into account other peoples point of view? I took some time to provide some rational arguments.
Dont you expect to get updates for your computer? Graphics Drivers? Network Drivers? Operating Systems? Surely you don't just by a new computer everytime you need that functionality. You expect either the OS Vendor or the computer manufacturer to provide updates - both to create new features and fix bugs.
Bug fixes yes, but as they said those will be provided, and no I don't expect additional features, sure I'll be happy with new features but I didn't expect them. Even though phones are getting closer and closer to being computers they aren't.
How are they different?
seshmaru said:
Okay, I'm assuming you all bought your hero's for what it was capable of when you bought it, seeing as there were no confirmed updates from HTC and even Google scheduled yet, so why does the majority get annoyed when their phone misses out on the latest 2.2 update? It still has all the features you bought it for. Any update at all is a positive, no update is neutral since your phone didn't lose anything, it just didn't gain anything either. Besides the fact that our Hero's already have basic flash support and are ahead of most devices in functionality just because it was ahead of its time when it got released?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was happy with it when I got it, it was after all the flagship HTC device of 2009. But then about a month later 1.6 came out, and HTC said they were working on an upgrade to 1.6. This was delayed, then 2.0 came out and HTC suggested they would upgrade to 2.0 instead. The same happened with 2.1. But you are correct that they never really announced any upgrades officially, it was just announced on there twitter stream. Which is half the problem really. They kept suggesting that they were working on an upgrade, but kept pushing it back. Had they just done the 1.6 upgrade and then stopped, I don't think half as many people would be annoyed.
What HTC did wrong here was to give inconsistent information, along with delays and then kept junking what they had done and telling people they were working on something better. As a result, people kept hanging on, and being told that if they just waited a little longer then they would get an upgrade. If HTC had just come clean and updated us with offical announcements, or had stuck with 1.6 and been honest about a lack of improvement, then people wouldn't still be waiting.
Also, if you look at the iPhone model, they may charge for upgrades but the original 2G iPhone has only just gone out of support. Given that the Hero was the 2009 flagship Android device, and was still being sold way into 2010, its a little hard to stomach the idea that its out of support so quickly.
tl;dr HTC kept pissing us around and making us wait just a little longer, when it could have just said "not going to happen, here is 1.6, sorry" and this is annoying.
Are we buying a piece of hardware which is only going to be bug fixed, or are we buying hardware which is going to be updated for a certain amount of time even after they're no longer selling it?
In my opinion we're not just buying hardware, we're buying a software package behind it. That software needs to be updated, otherwise some major killer feature in a slightly newer version isn't possible for you to get - such as Google navigation, can turn a 6 month old phone which has the hardware capability into a device which is so frustrating.
I expect my device to last around 2 years, various networks offer contracts on these devices for 2 years, I think it's fair to expect updates to smart phones for that duration. I wouldn't expect every feature to be supported (eg. no live wallpaper if the device can't handle it), but it should be updated so it's possible to run the latest apps on it.
The phone manufacturers need to be honest on how long they plan to support these things, because it is becoming an issue. People feel abandoned if they pay hundreds of pounds on a device and never get an update, whilst other users pay the same amount and get multiple updates. If HTC doesn't want to release updates then that's fine - I'll just consider it before buying the device.
clobber said:
I am somewhere in the middle: somewhat content with my Android 1.5 Hero and somewhat annoyed at the lack of updates. I think the trouble all comes down to convergence [snip].
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice argument. I hadn't thought about the convergence issue. You might well have hit the nail on the head.
I see your point, but if you had gotten any other non android smartphone besides the iPhone you wouldn't be getting significant feature set updates either.
But some people bought the hero because HTC said they were working on 2.1 months ago, others bought it because it was advertised "Android" and assumed you'd get Android updates. Others bought it because it's a good phone, but to the first two groups of people, the promise of new features was a reason for buying.
People are annoyed because HTC won't provide an update they've said they're working on (2.1), which seems to be a marketing interference to get as many people to buy a new device, rather than keep using their all one.
Also annoying is that we're stymied from having a generic OS made with drivers for all sorts of mobile hardware, but that's more of a philosophical annoyance.
I'm ticked off at the lack of update, not because I think I deserve an update per se, but more because I think I deserve all the features to work properly on my phone, and they don't.
And it's not like I could have tried it before I bought it either...
I've been an HTC user since 2003 and have always promoted the brand, but I don't think I'll get another one after this.
A Microsoft spokesperson issued the following statement:
“We encourage people to use their Windows Phone as supplied by the manufacturer to ensure the best possible user experience. The scenario described is not supported at this time.”
http://www.winrumors.com/microsoft-responds-to-htc-hd2-windows-phone-7-roms/
I read that as open season for the moment....
People lets make some noise on there....
Mouhahahahahahahaha
EDIT: BTW, When I called for the Activation. They gave it to me (but I had already used the one provided here). Then they called me again today just to make sure everything is operating smoothly. I love their Customer service
and this is how the communtiy responded when MS said no!!! the HD2 has too many buttons.
Microsoft would be crazy not to support WP7 on HD2. Of course they encourage it now..!!
Microsoft has always been rather "friendly" with people experimenting with their products. Look at Kinect, HD2, 360, 7, etc. They are not encouraging it but they are not shutting off all doors either...
After all, it's free advertising and more people using their products...
They learn from it as well!!
“We encourage people to use their Windows Phone as supplied by the manufacturer to ensure the best possible user experience. The scenario described is not supported at this time.”
I think the phrase 'at this time' is a bit of a giveaway. In the future maybe???
Whatever people think of Microsoft, they do try to listen to the feedback given by their customers. 'Cracked' software comes with the territory for any OS developer. They could block any unlocks, but that would lead to other methods to bypass this.
No software is crack-proof.
Windows 7 activation was bypassed ages ago, and Microsoft haven't actively tried to stop this.
I'm not a huge MS fan, but hats off to them for trying to improve their software and OS year on year.....
geddeeee said:
“We encourage people to use their Windows Phone as supplied by the manufacturer to ensure the best possible user experience. The scenario described is not supported at this time.”
I think the phrase 'at this time' is a bit of a giveaway. In the future maybe???
Whatever people think of Microsoft, they do try to listen to the feedback given by their customers. 'Cracked' software comes with the territory for any OS developer. They could block any unlocks, but that would lead to other methods to bypass this.
No software is crack-proof.
Windows 7 activation was bypassed ages ago, and Microsoft haven't actively tried to stop this.
I'm not a huge MS fan, but hats off to them for trying to improve their software and OS year on year.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason is there is no need to actively fight the activation cracking. It became a battle between the people who want to crack will crack no matter what. So what they did was make it as inconvenient as possible. Even when Windows 7 was cracked, unforseen checks caused the OS to relock itself and etc. More cracks had to be made to bypass the checks that werent seen.
With Windows phone, It's very likely they they don't care as long as people are using it since you can't exactly go out and buy windows phone 7 and install it like you can with the desktop OS. Plus, who knows how much they charge the phone manufacturers if anything.
The chances are, they either don't charge anything or charge very little and expect to make up for it when people buy content from the marketplace.
The phone itself was specifically designed with the pre-release specs for WP7 and with the HD7 was released and was basically the same, it was known then that eventually someone would get WP7 working on the HD2. Microsoft probably realized it and at this point they are going to just not support anyone using the HD2 as a WP7 device which is perfectly reasonable. The HD2 has some bugs to iron out for WP7 and why should Microsoft have to be responsible for supporting it.
This however isn't going to stop idiots who run WP7 on the HD2 from possibly calling Microsoft because of WP7 issues.
Hmmmm, the link at the top has had many HD2 WP7 users reply and left their view. Be careful because to leave your own comment they ask for an email. Make sure it isnt the email you used to activate WP7.
Putting that aside it is nice to see that Microsoft are not trying to slam the doors shut. Lets see what the updates bring and then see if they mean what they say.
Hilarity ensues!
ChrisTran206 said:
This however isn't going to stop idiots who run WP7 on the HD2 from possibly calling Microsoft because of WP7 issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, the clueless will call regardless...
Honestly though, I didn't know what to think regarding MS's response. I guess I assumed they would shut it down asap. Stunning revelation for me actually and I have new found respect for them in embracing insteading of shunning the enevitable.
maybe MS did add the HD2 to the compatability list a long time ago, but forgot that it was still there, so the customer service just did the right thing.
DannyBiker said:
Microsoft has always been rather "friendly" with people experimenting with their products. Look at Kinect, HD2, 360, 7, etc. They are not encouraging it but they are not shutting off all doors either...
After all, it's free advertising and more people using their products...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not quiet sure how "friendly" they are with people flashing their 360 with a custom firmware unless u call "friendly" getting your ass ban from xbox live and ur account cancel
DannyBiker said:
Microsoft has always been rather "friendly" with people experimenting with their products. Look at Kinect, HD2, 360, 7, etc. They are not encouraging it but they are not shutting off all doors either
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DennisCSUF said:
Not quiet sure how "friendly" they are with people flashing their 360 with a custom firmware unless u call "friendly" getting your ass ban from xbox live and ur account cancel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, no #%$
I thought his comparison with the 360 was a little off. And M$'s response on the Kinect hack was don't mess with it, until they backtracked and said they made it that way all along.
I guess we will see what happens after the next WP 7 release...
they ONLY reason they are not supplying wp7 for HD 2 is becuz of too many button on our HD 2.. they are stupid.. omg =.=
sooner or later they will put an end to this, and sooner or later hackers will find a way to get pass it.
It comes down to this. its all business. MS wanted a new phone to release its new OS so they got the HD7. who in their right mind in the business world would want to spend millions on a new OS and make it work on past devices before any new devices would come out? and if they make it compatible with hd2, then why not some other windows 6.5 phones? see the chain they'd have to deal with here?
Now as far as their kindness towards the crackers of wp7, that's the only way they could react. if they sound like arse's, ppl would rebel and look down at ms like they do at apple. They aren't going to release some form of fix for the crack right away, so no point in getting mad about it. in my eyes they are behind the scenes saying, have your fun..we'll block it again eventually so you have to crack it again. Meanwhile, they are saving their face, time and money to try to develop a quick fix, and letting people all get drawn into the new OS. Its brilliant. just like our developers here at XDA!
cx1 said:
A Microsoft spokesperson issued the following statement:
“We encourage people to use their Windows Phone as supplied by the manufacturer to ensure the best possible user experience. The scenario described is not supported at this time.”
http://www.winrumors.com/microsoft-responds-to-htc-hd2-windows-phone-7-roms/
I read that as open season for the moment....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think Tom Warren(winrumors) has got his story wrong!
"Some users have contacted Microsoft’s official support lines requesting codes after falsely claiming their device is a HTC HD7. Microsoft has been issuing codes to allow the devices to access Windows Live services."
I never claimed to microsoft that I had a HD7, I was asked why I needed a code. I told them it was for Windows Phone 7, not a HD7. They gave me the code for my WP7 what I told them, so i have not given them false info.
So Tony get your facts right.
Russ
Whither the Upgrade
nzxtneo said:
I guess we will see what happens after the next WP 7 release...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. We shall all see what our efforts and desires bring us when the next release of WP7 comes out.
We'll all get the upgrade cleanly, OTA and we'll be smiling.
The upgrade will lock (or maybe even brick) our phones at which point all the small-minded people will scream at M$ for ruining their phones, which they had already ruined by running WP7 on a non-supported phone.
Or the upgrade won't work on our phones; we'll all be on the current version. Still functional but now it's an old OS (like 6.5). And we'll be asking for new ROMs.
And hey, if it's the first item we'll get copy/paste.
LOL. If it's all about copy/paste then we should "upgrade" back to WM 6.5...It has this functionality, as well as multitasking
I'm personally staying for a while with WP7...I like "The Harvest" too much
Good news! Not only did Microsoft officially announce windows 8.1, but they also announced the public preview will be coming on June 26! :laugh: Even better news, the preview is for not only Windows 8, but also windows RT! This sounds like an opportunity to make Windows RT able to run recompiled desktop apps without a jailbreak... Will they?
http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2013/05/14/windows-keeps-getting-better.aspx
C-Lang said:
Good news! Not only did Microsoft officially announce windows 8.1, but they also announced the public preview will be coming on June 26! :laugh: Even better news, the preview is for not only Windows 8, but also windows RT! This sounds like an opportunity to make Windows RT able to run recompiled desktop apps without a jailbreak... Will they?
http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2013/05/14/windows-keeps-getting-better.aspx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
also to add to this, it will be free for all people on windows 8
@C-Lang: We can definitely hope... but it could also be when they finally get around to patching the years-old kernel vulnerability that the "jailbreak" relies on. Microsoft spat in the faces of WP7 users multiple times over multiple causes, but homebrew in particular they tried hard to shut down. The Windows Client (desktop and now RT) and Windows Phone teams are different, to be sure, but the old WinMo teams were fine with homebrew so they may have been driven by a higher-up at the company. Let's face it, Microsoft has already been pretty hostile towards people who want to control their own hardware, or they would have provided a way to disable Secure Boot on RT (hey, we already paid for the OS!) or at least not locked out Testsigning and Debug boot modes...
I don't usually attack MS, and I hope dearly that you're more right than I am, but history is against it. WP7.0 was immature and rushed, but it was also reasonably hackable and rapidly developed an active homebrew community who added some features that the base OS lacked (and sorely needed). Then we watched as the first major WP7 update (Mango) delivered a major slap in the face to the whole homebrew community, knocking our progress back by months while implementing almost none of the features that homebrew had provided. Once Mango and its interop-lock were firmly in place, Microsoft finally permitted the ChevronWP7 Labs unlocker that had been promised so long ago - only to, surprise, kill it merely a few months later. I do not trust Microsoft to not try and revert Windows RT into a mere web-browsing-and-crappy-email-client OS (plus Skype) in a misguided effort to try and milk some more money out of forcing people to use the decidedly sub-optimal "Windows Store apps" for things that a desktop app can do so, so much better (or that a Metro app can't do at all)...
Time will tell, though. They have reversed really stupid decisions before, like the mandatory Flash whitelist.
Honestly, I think that if MS was going to patch the jailbreak then they would've done it by now. This would be a prime time for them to do it, though.
Time will tell, just over a month left. There've been leaked betas, though, right? We should check if the exploit is still present in those.
GoodDayToDie said:
@C-Lang: We can definitely hope... but it could also be when they finally get around to patching the years-old kernel vulnerability that the "jailbreak" relies on. Microsoft spat in the faces of WP7 users multiple times over multiple causes, but homebrew in particular they tried hard to shut down. The Windows Client (desktop and now RT) and Windows Phone teams are different, to be sure, but the old WinMo teams were fine with homebrew so they may have been driven by a higher-up at the company. Let's face it, Microsoft has already been pretty hostile towards people who want to control their own hardware, or they would have provided a way to disable Secure Boot on RT (hey, we already paid for the OS!) or at least not locked out Testsigning and Debug boot modes...
I don't usually attack MS, and I hope dearly that you're more right than I am, but history is against it. WP7.0 was immature and rushed, but it was also reasonably hackable and rapidly developed an active homebrew community who added some features that the base OS lacked (and sorely needed). Then we watched as the first major WP7 update (Mango) delivered a major slap in the face to the whole homebrew community, knocking our progress back by months while implementing almost none of the features that homebrew had provided. Once Mango and its interop-lock were firmly in place, Microsoft finally permitted the ChevronWP7 Labs unlocker that had been promised so long ago - only to, surprise, kill it merely a few months later. I do not trust Microsoft to not try and revert Windows RT into a mere web-browsing-and-crappy-email-client OS (plus Skype) in a misguided effort to try and milk some more money out of forcing people to use the decidedly sub-optimal "Windows Store apps" for things that a desktop app can do so, so much better (or that a Metro app can't do at all)...
Time will tell, though. They have reversed really stupid decisions before, like the mandatory Flash whitelist.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting... I've only had my Windows Phone (currently running 7.8) for a little while. We can only hope!
netham45 said:
Honestly, I think that if MS was going to patch the jailbreak then they would've done it by now. This would be a prime time for them to do it, though.
Time will tell, just over a month left. There've been leaked betas, though, right? We should check if the exploit is still present in those.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sort of... the x86 has leaked, but we don't have RT yet. I guess we'll see in a little more than a month!
I just hope that fix the driver for my TP Link receiver... I had to switch to Windows 7 because of that
Sent from my LT22i using Tapatalk 2
C-Lang said:
This sounds like an opportunity to make Windows RT able to run recompiled desktop apps without a jailbreak... Will they?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dream on buddy
The Automatic Desktop Display Scaling is one of the more important changes I think..
http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/blue-automatic-desktop-display-scaling
Hi some time ago when windows 8.1 was still called blue there were some rumours that Micro$oft will merge its two platforms. Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 would share she same Metro apps. This move should give M$ edge over Apple where you could have best of both worlds on single device. It seems now that this idea has been lost somewhere in 8.1 changelog.
So I was looking for revolution but it seems that we will receive just evolution. Oh and for most of the portals major change is the start button! Really?!
You seem to be suffering from some keyboard defect. I suggest you look into that. In the meantime, get back under your bridge.
Hi. Thank you for your reply. My post was to start a discussion about the features of new update and about lack of some expected ones (which maybe still will be announced).
And what was the purpose of your reply?
It was never said that wp8 and w8 would become one and the same. You have misunderstood. Some of the new windows runtime features are coming to windows phone and the services offered were to be merged, but the operating systems themselves were to remain seperate.
>Some of the new windows runtime features are coming to windows phone and the services offered were to be merged, but the operating systems themselves were to remain desperate.
that way I had to misunderstood this (would be a great idea thou). Sort of like universal apps shared between iphone and ipad) I seen few apps which are being announced as both windows 8 and windows phone 8 (check co-pilot or halo) which probably kept me in believing in this. Oh well we will see where windows 8 will evolve.
Andrew_j said:
that way I had to misunderstood this (would be a great idea thou). Sort of like universal apps shared between iphone and ipad) I seen few apps which are being announced as both windows 8 and windows phone 8 (check co-pilot or halo) which probably kept me in believing in this. Oh well we will see where windows 8 will evolve.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iPhone and iPad share apps simply because they are the same operating system. The iPad is just a giant iPhone. its the same as how one android phone and another share apps, they are the same thing.
Windows phone and windows 8 are not.
The desperate thing I said above, may be true but autocorrect fail, wrote it from my nexus this morning.
Andrew_j said:
Hi. Thank you for your reply. My post was to start a discussion about the features of new update and about lack of some expected ones (which maybe still will be announced).
And what was the purpose of your reply?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Purpose of his post is that you stop using that $ instead of S.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Oh. I am sorry I didn't know that I hurt his / yours religious feelings.
Unless of course this gentleman refers to his home as "under the bridge" I read his post as simple attempt to offend.
In light of recent E3 news (xbox one- drm management, activation fees, price, Internet connection requirement to work, always-on camera pointing your face and listening all the time which you cannot just unplug) I thing that using $ instead of S is good way to comment the situation.
To end this pointless conversation - unless there there is a XDA rule which prohibits me to do so then please stop trolling and trying to offend other forum members.
Now coming back to 8.1 - is this correct what I understood from brief installation description that if you install this release you will have to reinstall all the programs if you would like to install final release?
"M$" and similar (and I'd apply this statement even to, for example, "$ony" which is a company I personally detest) is most commonly used as trolling behavior online. This is doubly true in a forum devoted to discussing Microsoft products. It's possible you had, and still have, a legit intention to create a meaningful discussion. However, it looked (and to an extent, still looks) like you're merely trying to stir up trouble.
I agree that the XbOne restrictions are nasty, but I have no intention of buying one, and this forum has nothing to do with that product.
The only hint I ever saw regarding merging the app models was a job posting about installing both XAP and APPX packages on the same platform. That's interesting, and does imply a merged app platform, but there's no guarantee it was even going to happen, much less when. To the best of my knowledge, Microsoft never officially said anything to the effect of "we will do this" although there's been rampant speculation since the Win8 beta days.
You are right. I has never been said officially thus my expectations and hopes to see any bits of confirmation during the press conference. When I haven seen any I asked the question here. Still must say I am looking forward this update (probably not for first public beta - if the rumours are true that you will have to reinstall all your applications).
Personally I believe that The Redmond company will need stronger impact to conquer more market right now windows 8 is getting the love it should receive as is being designed for touch but mostly is being use on non-touchscreen laptops and PC. Marked wasn't ready for this. So right approach would be IMO to get more tablet users on their side (look at the latest adverts windows 8 vs iPad). If 8" tablets market is good for win8 is another discussion thou.
But coming back to subject. Has this been confirm that win 8.1 final version cannot be I painless way installed on top of preview?
Cheers
In practice, it's pretty much always possible to do an in-place upgrade via tweaking a few files in the installer or a value in the registry. However, in-place upgrades are a bad enough idea even when they're supported; I really can't endorse doing it on your main system. I may well install the preview in a VM, though.
I think in this case I will rather wait for official final release. Hdd restrictions will not allow me to have more fun on vm. I am already running win8 on bootcamp so no more complications are required
Also partially as an answer to my initial question it has been announced that new halo game for win 8 and win phone 8 will not be a cross buy. These will be two independent apps so no one unified system for now at least.
Yeah, that's been the case for a number of games already. On the plus side, the games *can* still share data between platforms if you have it on boath, and you can earn achievemnts on both... which would matter more if I gave a damn about gamerscore (I've got like 3500, LOL) but some people really care.
Hi all. There is still light at the end of the tunnel (hope it's not a train
http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/...indows-phone-teams-in-titanic-microsoft-rejig
It looks like Marshmallow is following the usual pattern of Android "x.0" alpha release to the public, followed by "x.0.1" beta release with initial defect ('bug") corrections starting with Nexus beta testers (I.e. Nexus users in general).
Reading about the MM 6.0 problems on MXPE, I'm sitting out the 6.0 alpha testing on the sideline with LP 5.1.1. Most trouble-free phone I've had yet, and I don't yet need the only compelling feature I see with MM on the MXPE (T-Mobile Band 12 support).
Any noises yet about MM beyond 6.0.1? (I know I can look for this elsewhere too, but thinking maybe some of the XDA community may have inside info from the Android community.)
TIA...
The marshmallow update give me some new features and better battery life (though I do own the X Style, not pure). Unless you are dead set on being intentionally obtuse, then this isn't considered an alpha update.
Also the 6.0.1 update is quite minor, the largest change being some ART performance improvements, the rest is adding bands to the Nexus line and some emoji's: http://www.androidheadlines.com/2015/12/google-posts-android-6-0-1-changelog.html
I know the label "alpha" is not not the official label for something like 6.0. But with so many substantial defects, and multiple forthcoming revisions to correct those defects a certainty, that's really what it is IMO. Maybe "public release alpha" would be a better description, since pre-release revisions go through even more defect-ridden levels including pre-release alpha, prior to public release.
Similar situation with previous Android versions, and in fact most software foisted on the public these days (I'm looking at you, Microsoft and Apple). Look at Lollipop and the multiple public release revisions it took to iron out most of the substantial defects, finally, with 5.1.1.
6.0.1 is not just "...some ART performance improvements, the rest is adding bands to the Nexus line and some emoji's...", it also includes defect corrections. (Bluetooth, anyone?) And if the changelog doesn't list a significant number of defect corrections, that doesn't necessarily mean it is already polished at 6.0.1. The fragmented Android ecosystem and separation between Google, phone manufacturers, carriers, and users guarantees a plethora of various non-trivial defects in the ecosystem, many of which Google will address only slowly or even never for most phones.
For example, the memory leak defect in LP was not fixed until 5.1.1. How may revisions and months did that take? How many phones still run pre-5.5.1 with this defect?
One reason I bought the MXPE was the idea that it would be one of the first to get the updates. That turned out to be overly optimistic. It looks like Nexus is the only one still close enough to the source to get timely updates, and it also looks like Google is not pursuing Android defect corrections with any kind of urgency at all nowadays, maybe because the hardware ecosystem is becoming way too diverse to adequately support any more (or maybe because the profits roll in no matter what). Motorola phones, with the Moto alterations to Android, outsider status with carriers, and now hollowed-out Motorola support, appear to be no closer to adequate Android support from Google than any other non-Nexus phone.
"Obtuse"? A "bug" is a euphemism for a defect. Let's stop being obtuse, and call it what it is.
Any other info also appreciated.
You're being obtuse by insisting that we're all public alpha testers.
You obviously have no idea about software development, nor about Android Open Source development. Not your fault, but running your mouth is.
You bemoan the memory leak fix took several revisions to fix. So, you think that Google dedicated the whole team to fixing that one bug? What then? No other bugfixes or features are introduced in the meantime? The likely case is (and this is from experience) that bug took some revisions to fix, in the meantime, Google were also pushing ahead with other fixes. Regardless to what the uneducated (about SW development), throwing 15 developers onto one problem doesn't solve it any quicker. 5.0.1 came, adn 5.0.2 came, then 5.1 came in the meantime. While that memory leak was being worked on, more releases come fixing other things. Be grateful they didn't listen to you and leave it at 5.0 for several months while they fixed one issue.
Whatever bluetooth fixes that you think are in 6.0.1 are pure fantasy, because none exist in AOSP 6.0.1: http://aosp.changelog.to/android-6.0.0_r5-to-android-6.0.1_r1.html <-- That's the FULL changelog of commits between 6.0.0_r5 and 6.0.1_r1.
It is not Google's job to fix a problem in anything other than their own devices. At all. Google's job is to make AOSP run smoothly on Nexus devices and release the source. Samsung, HTC, LG, Motorola et al all take the source code, just like CM, AICP, Slim and the rest do, and make modifications for their devices, using the sources given to them by their hardware partners and themselves. So if BT works in Nexus devices, but not others, then it's not Google's problem (usually). An AOSP issue will persist several devices, including Nexii devices.
Google also have taken on the quite large undertaking of monthly security updates for their devices, which I can tell you will be taking up some of the development teams time (it's what, 3-4 months into that project?).
No software ever released on this planet comes without bugs and issues. This is software development. You can check the status of AOSP development here: https://android-review.googlesource.com/#/q/status:open and feel free to download, code and submit your own features.
MattBooth said:
You're being obtuse by insisting that we're all public alpha testers.
You obviously have no idea about software development, nor about Android Open Source development. Not your fault, but running your mouth is.
You bemoan the memory leak fix took several revisions to fix. So, you think that Google dedicated the whole team to fixing that one bug? What then? No other bugfixes or features are introduced in the meantime? The likely case is (and this is from experience) that bug took some revisions to fix, in the meantime, Google were also pushing ahead with other fixes. Regardless to what the uneducated (about SW development), throwing 15 developers onto one problem doesn't solve it any quicker. 5.0.1 came, adn 5.0.2 came, then 5.1 came in the meantime. While that memory leak was being worked on, more releases come fixing other things. Be grateful they didn't listen to you and leave it at 5.0 for several months while they fixed one issue.
Whatever bluetooth fixes that you think are in 6.0.1 are pure fantasy, because none exist in AOSP 6.0.1: http://aosp.changelog.to/android-6.0.0_r5-to-android-6.0.1_r1.html <-- That's the FULL changelog of commits between 6.0.0_r5 and 6.0.1_r1.
It is not Google's job to fix a problem in anything other than their own devices. At all. Google's job is to make AOSP run smoothly on Nexus devices and release the source. Samsung, HTC, LG, Motorola et al all take the source code, just like CM, AICP, Slim and the rest do, and make modifications for their devices, using the sources given to them by their hardware partners and themselves. So if BT works in Nexus devices, but not others, then it's not Google's problem (usually). An AOSP issue will persist several devices, including Nexii devices.
Google also have taken on the quite large undertaking of monthly security updates for their devices, which I can tell you will be taking up some of the development teams time (it's what, 3-4 months into that project?).
No software ever released on this planet comes without bugs and issues. This is software development. You can check the status of AOSP development here: https://android-review.googlesource.com/#/q/status:open and feel free to download, code and submit your own features.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
t
No new or useful information there. Thanks anyway, despite the ad hominem. I guess that comes with the territory (forums).
Yep, the Google-Android-(independent hardware makers) ecosystem is seriously flawed. Too much disconnect between the OS owner (Google), the hardware makers, the carriers, and the customer. And the first three in the chain (not including the customer) have different incentives/disincentives, and there are a bazillion hardware variations, of course it is broken. We know all this.
Reminds me of the original PC/Windows mess. Except worse because the carriers interpose an additional dysfunctional layer hindering OS updates/support. (Before anyone says "just DIY with one of the many available ROMs, I started this "Q" thread about stock MM, not third party ROMs.)
Still hoping for any useful information on anything happening to fix the MM defects, to get an idea when it might be past public beta and worth installing to MXPE.
TIA...
Tinkerer_ said:
t
No new or useful information there. Thanks anyway, despite the ad hominem. I guess that comes with the territory (forums).
Yep, the Google-Android-(independent hardware makers) ecosystem is seriously flawed. Too much disconnect between the OS owner (Google), the hardware makers, the carriers, and the customer. And the first three in the chain (not including the customer) have different incentives/disincentives, and there are a bazillion hardware variations, of course it is broken. We know all this.
Reminds me of the original PC/Windows mess. Except worse because the carriers interpose an additional dysfunctional layer hindering OS updates/support. (Before anyone says "just DIY with one of the many available ROMs, I started this "Q" thread about stock MM, not third party ROMs.)
Still hoping for any useful information on anything happening to fix the MM defects, to get an idea when it might be past public beta and worth installing to MXPE.
TIA...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What ad hominem? Your uneducated state affects your ability to understand the nature of Android and software development. It's a perfectly legitimate response to your position. You lack the ability to understand and therefore your argument is flawed. I'm not attacking you, I actually tried to give you some insight into how it works, but you're not really interested and would rather insist on this "public beta" bull.
As far as fixing any "defects" you suppose, you haven't actually listed any so no-one is going to be able to help you with temporary work around without a list of what you feel is broken. I also showed you the changelog, so you can do your own homework to see if your supposed defects are fixed in 6.0.1.
The various hardware configurations doesn't even matter because Android is built to deal with it. So long as the hardware vendors of chips and modules support them properly and give out functioning binaries to OEM's, or proper source code, it's irrelevant. The exact opposite of what you said is true, Google has a very close relationship with it's partners (anyone signed up to their Google programs, to preinstall Google apps). The problem is carriers, who really shouldn't have a say in software on the phones, but that seems to be a chiefly North American problem.
Google doesn't need to have any connection to Android users as customers. Google does not sell Android, therefore you are not Google's customer unless you use a Nexus phone. Google sell the Google Experience, with the Nexus. You are Motorola's customer, and you are using Motorola's branched version of Android. Google doesn't owe Motorola any fixes or patches for their device. Motorola must maintain their own device tree and maintain their own relationships with their partners.
EDIT:
Also, Motorola's problem is resources. They have four version of the Moto X 2015 to deal with, three versions of the Moto X 2014, the new X Force, then the various versions of the G and E to deal with, along with two smart watches, and so forth. Their line up is increasing whist I imagine their development team is not. There was outrage (rightly so) when news broke that the Moto G 2015 wasn't getting the MM update, despite being a couple of months old, and Motorola listened and OTA's are rolling out.
I am asking if anyone can offer any info on anything being done to move toward MM revision with the many significant defects of 6.0 corrected. Read the forums, there are way too many defects with 6.0, it is patently a de facto public alpha, and we are tracking the usual pattern where it takes 3 to 5 revisions before an OS major rev is ironed out enough that upgrading will not cause more problems than it fixes.
There are always excuses made for why there are so many defects in software. There is a euphemism for "defect" everybody uses, "bug". Everyone has been making excuses for so long about shoddy workmanship and inadequate testing and correction of software, with the "bug" euphemism to minimize the reality that these are defects, that we are all just to suppose to accept systems ridden with faults without complaint. It's unacceptable. It can be done better. Part of why it doesn't get better is because everybody says "that's just the way it is, deal with it". With mountains of byzantine excuses and even ad hominem attacks (as here).
This thread was not started to start a tit for tat ad hominem back and forth, nor to post long essays detailing excuses for the pathetic status quo of the fragmented Android ecosystem with respect to defect causes and distributions. It was started looking for any info about work being done to fix the stock MM defects. Still seeking info.
TIA.
You should probably check the definition of ad hominem. There was no attack on you as a person, just pointing out that your uneducated state with regards to knowledge about software development affects your ability to call judgement on this.
But you haven't listened to a single word I've said and still maintain a shoddy position, so I would suggest to anyone else who reads this to simply ignore you as a troll.
Tinkerer_ said:
It looks like Marshmallow is following the usual pattern of Android "x.0" alpha release to the public, followed by "x.0.1" beta release with initial defect ('bug") corrections starting with Nexus beta testers (I.e. Nexus users in general).
Reading about the MM 6.0 problems on MXPE, I'm sitting out the 6.0 alpha testing on the sideline with LP 5.1.1. Most trouble-free phone I've had yet, and I don't yet need the only compelling feature I see with MM on the MXPE (T-Mobile Band 12 support).
Any noises yet about MM beyond 6.0.1? (I know I can look for this elsewhere too, but thinking maybe some of the XDA community may have inside info from the Android community.)
TIA...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we'll close this debate. There are no real "Android" insiders on XDA, so asking for update info which is privy to Google is perhaps somewhat futile.
On a related note, XDA have a few dedicated "Android Fora", such as this complete Category where non-device specific discussion and indeed conjecture takes place. Perhaps you could take a look there and see what transpires?
Thanks