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im a noob to programming and since school is now over i would like to get started with some android dev. But first want to learn a Computer language, which one would be ideal for Android Dev?
It's not hard at all I don't know any languages and I made my own rom I have advanced knowledge in cmd though, but I guess if you had to pick on I see a lot of XML documents so try that.
c++ hands down.
EDIT:
Wait didn't read all of your post.
Android apps are written in Java...end of story.
There is a MonoDev thingy somewhere that lets you write in C# and convert...but I am not sure how well that will work.
To get started in programming and actually have a comprehension of what you are doing. c++ and console apps.
You can't do GUI until you understand what is going on in the background.
EDIT #2:
Beers are getting to me, and I am gettin lng winded.:
Google Dev site has a VERY good tutorial on setting up Eclipse (The prefered Android Dev IDE) and also some decent tutorials on writing an app.
Hello World doesn;t count in Android, Elcipse write the whole dam program for you by detalt.
english ftw
Kcarpenter said:
c++ hands down.
EDIT:
Wait didn't read all of your post.
Android apps are written in Java...end of story.
There is a MonoDev thingy somewhere that lets you write in C# and convert...but I am not sure how well that will work.
To get started in programming and actually have a comprehension of what you are doing. c++ and console apps.
You can't do GUI until you understand what is going on in the background.
EDIT #2:
Beers are getting to me, and I am gettin lng winded.:
Google Dev site has a VERY good tutorial on setting up Eclipse (The prefered Android Dev IDE) and also some decent tutorials on writing an app.
Hello World doesn;t count in Android, Elcipse write the whole dam program for you by detalt.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok so java is the way to go, then from there learn c++ ??
did not know that google mobile apps where created using JAVA.
cool...
Kcarpenter said:
c++ hands down.
EDIT:
Wait didn't read all of your post.
Android apps are written in Java...end of story.
There is a MonoDev thingy somewhere that lets you write in C# and convert...but I am not sure how well that will work.
To get started in programming and actually have a comprehension of what you are doing. c++ and console apps.
You can't do GUI until you understand what is going on in the background.
EDIT #2:
Beers are getting to me, and I am gettin lng winded.:
Google Dev site has a VERY good tutorial on setting up Eclipse (The prefered Android Dev IDE) and also some decent tutorials on writing an app.
Hello World doesn;t count in Android, Elcipse write the whole dam program for you by detalt.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Julianmgn said:
ok so java is the way to go, then from there learn c++ ??
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Click to collapse
C++ should be anyones first language. It forces you to use your head and the compiler does very litte for you.
If you don't have any care to do any other type of programming your life..or make a career out of it...sure just learn Java...
Theory works the same for all languages...but C++ forces you to be a [email protected] Very unforgiving...more forgiving than plain C...but still.
Kcarpenter said:
C++ should be anyones first language. It forces you to use your head and the compiler does very litte for you.
If you don't have any care to do any other type of programming your life..or make a career out of it...sure just learn Java...
Theory works the same for all languages...but C++ forces you to be a [email protected] Very unforgiving...more forgiving than plain C...but still.
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Click to collapse
thank you sir you've been most helpful and i do plan on making a career out of this...i just wanted to know what i should start with to put my foot through the door...thanks
Kcarpenter said:
C++ should be anyones first language. It forces you to use your head and the compiler does very litte for you.
If you don't have any care to do any other type of programming your life..or make a career out of it...sure just learn Java...
Theory works the same for all languages...but C++ forces you to be a [email protected] Very unforgiving...more forgiving than plain C...but still.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Completely agree. My first formal language was C, then C++. Do object oriented C++ first, because it will make you appreciate Java. I am a Java/J2EE dev, but my data structures class was in OO C++ and I am thankful for every day I can write Java and not have to worry about pointers, memory allocation and segmentation faults. I have done some embedded C, which is the other end of the spectrum cause you are doing everything by direct addressing of memory, which is also kinda fun.
If you want to go straight into Android development, than yes you can make the jump to Java, and the SDK does allow for both XML based UI design, and Swing-like. Just make sure you read up on garbage collection within the JRE(Make sure you understand what weak and soft referances are) and also there are some talks from Google IO in the past years that touch on some good practices.
BTW, XML is not a programming language, it is a markup language. It is most commonly used in serializing data, mostly because it too is object oriented. One alternative to XML that is becoming more popular due to the increasing amount of AJAX applications is JSON. Also, if you do any XML parsing, make sure you know the difference between a DOM based parser(JDOM) and an event-based parser(SAX), using the right one can drastically increase performance.
lineman78 said:
Completely agree. My first formal language was C, then C++. Do object oriented C++ first, because it will make you appreciate Java. I am a Java/J2EE dev, but my data structures class was in OO C++ and I am thankful for every day I can write Java and not have to worry about pointers, memory allocation and segmentation faults. I have done some embedded C, which is the other end of the spectrum cause you are doing everything by direct addressing of memory, which is also kinda fun.
If you want to go straight into Android development, than yes you can make the jump to Java, and the SDK does allow for both XML based UI design, and Swing-like. Just make sure you read up on garbage collection within the JRE(Make sure you understand what weak and soft referances are) and also there are some talks from Google IO in the past years that touch on some good practices.
BTW, XML is not a programming language, it is a markup language. It is most commonly used in serializing data, mostly because it too is object oriented. One alternative to XML that is becoming more popular due to the increasing amount of AJAX applications is JSON. Also, if you do any XML parsing, make sure you know the difference between a DOM based parser(JDOM) and an event-based parser(SAX), using the right one can drastically increase performance.
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Click to collapse
thank you sir's, i will then start on c++ right away lol...well tomorrow haha
yeah cuz this is my career path of choice and i now know how to get started thank u lol
If you wanted to get started in programming apps for Android then you might as well start with Java since that is what it uses and will get you going the quickest.
If programming is something you would like to pursue then I would recommend a slightly different longer route.
First and foremost is stay away from doing anything visual. You want to just program console apps. The visual GUIs come later after you have an understanding of programing and it will only confuse you this early on.
For a complete newbie I would recommend playing around with some form of BASIC. You don't really need to but I feel it helps to start understand the ideas of programming.
From there I would highly recommend regular old C. C code will actually work in C++ but I recommend C so that you stay away from some of the stuff in C++. Mainly the Object Oriented parts of C++.
First you need to learn about data types, variables, arrays, loops, and functions.
After that then I would recommend jumping into C++ for a little bit to program some classes. Just to understand classes a little bit. Then I think move over to Java to start to fully understand object oriented programing and learn more about problem solving, algorithms, recursion.
And then after that... well, by that point you probably will know where you should be headed but it will probably involve going back to c/c++ for some more advanced programing, optimization, a better understanding of how everything works down to the compiler and OS level interprocess communications.
centran said:
If you wanted to get started in programming apps for Android then you might as well start with Java since that is what it uses and will get you going the quickest.
If programming is something you would like to pursue then I would recommend a slightly different longer route.
First and foremost is stay away from doing anything visual. You want to just program console apps. The visual GUIs come later after you have an understanding of programing and it will only confuse you this early on.
For a complete newbie I would recommend playing around with some form of BASIC. You don't really need to but I feel it helps to start understand the ideas of programming.
From there I would highly recommend regular old C. C code will actually work in C++ but I recommend C so that you stay away from some of the stuff in C++. Mainly the Object Oriented parts of C++.
First you need to learn about data types, variables, arrays, loops, and functions.
After that then I would recommend jumping into C++ for a little bit to program some classes. Just to understand classes a little bit. Then I think move over to Java to start to fully understand object oriented programing and learn more about problem solving, algorithms, recursion.
And then after that... well, by that point you probably will know where you should be headed but it will probably involve going back to c/c++ for some more advanced programing, optimization, a better understanding of how everything works down to the compiler and OS level interprocess communications.
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that makes sense...thank you sir very helpful but do u think it would be ok if i just jump into C then C++
Julianmgn said:
thank you sir's, i will then start on c++ right away lol...well tomorrow haha
yeah cuz this is my career path of choice and i now know how to get started thank u lol
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Click to collapse
Don't bother trying to figure out any of the C++ graphics languages, just do some programs with command line interfaces. I would also suggest that once you figure out the basics that you concentrate on object oriented C++ as it will make for an easier transition to Java, but you should also learn the difference in pass by reference and pass by value, which also involves learning about pointers. Also, learn make early on as it will make compilation easier. The Java equivalent to make is Ant when you get there.
This seems to be an okay book to get you started.
I wouldnt suggest working on all data structures, concentrate on some of the more common ones like linked lists and b-trees. In Java, a lot of these are already implemented, but it is good to know how they work. If you want a real challenge try and do a skip list. It is very difficult, but if implemented correctly you should be able to take a file filled with millions of data points of randomized data, read it in and index it for instantaneous search in under a minute.
Julianmgn said:
that makes sense...thank you sir very helpful but do u think it would be ok if i just jump into C then C++
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Click to collapse
That should be fine. Stick to C to learn the basic stuff and then you can then learn some of the object oriented stuff in C++ like classes. That will help you when you move over to Java. You can then start to learn the more complicated stuff.
Like lineman78 said, Java implements some complicated data structures like stacks and linked lists and a bunch of others. Do not use those! When you are making the leap from C++ to Java you are doing so to learn to code those things for yourself.
Oh, and don't let people put you off to C. If you are sticking to the very basics I feel it is a good way to start. Then after you learn a bunch of stuff you can come back to C to learn some of the harder stuff.
centran said:
That should be fine. Stick to C to learn the basic stuff and then you can then learn some of the object oriented stuff in C++ like classes. That will help you when you move over to Java. You can then start to learn the more complicated stuff.
Like lineman78 said, Java implements some complicated data structures like stacks and linked lists and a bunch of others. Do not use those! When you are making the leap from C++ to Java you are doing so to learn to code those things for yourself.
Oh, and don't let people put you off to C. If you are sticking to the very basics I feel it is a good way to start. Then after you learn a bunch of stuff you can come back to C to learn some of the harder stuff.
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Click to collapse
thank you and to all of u for ur help...C it is then C++ then java lol
These are my sole opinions and no one else's, take this as you will.
With programming, you shouldn't be bound to a specific language when you first begin; rather you want to learn the semantics and syntax of programming. Whether you start with C++, C, or Java shouldn't make too much of a difference, especially since all three languages are essentially all derivatives of each other.
Java is the highest level language and as such is considered to be a standard language all CS/MIS students have to take nowadays. When I was freshmen in college, I started with C++, but the very next semester -- the CS/MIS department said that C++ would stop being offered and that Java would take its place as a beginner level course.
I'm not saying C++ isn't still used to, because that's not even remotely true; however almost all Universities now teach Java as a beginner CS course for new students, mainly because it's a high level language and it allows for students to learn OOP (Object Oriented programming).
Since your end goal is to develop applications for Android, it's probably best you learn Java, since all the Android apps are built using Java and XML.
Your best resource is the Internet.
You can find University Lectures all over the web. The OpenCourseWare project has grown a lot and allows for the entire world to get an education. For FREE. If you don't know it is, you can go HERE to read more. Basically though, it's a collaboration of the top Universities (MIT, Standard, CIT, Harvard, etc) to provide there coursework and almost all classes they offer to the world. These universities record all there lectures and host them either on their sites or on Youtube. They also provide all the materials you'll need to learn alongside everyone else, as if you were in the classroom yourself. You can go at your own pace; stop, rewind, pause the video if you're stuck, and take as long as you want on the assignments. It's a great way to self-teach yourself programming; plus the Internet will most definitely give you the answer to any questions you get stuck on.
I'm currently doing the Beginner Java course that Stanford is offering (as a refresher). The professor that teaches the course is exceptional and you'll see that my sentiment is echoed in the comments section on Youtube. Stanford's way of teaching Java and especially OOP allows new students to slowly, but surely grasp the OOP concepts (as they can be a little difficult to understand at times). You should benefit from this, just make sure you follow through and do it.
Stanford Java Course
Here's a list of other helpful resouces:
Cosmolearning - Intro to CS
All of MIT's CS Lectures
Google Books -- You'll find endless amounts of books, just search the language you want to learn and have a go.
Good luck.
I was a computer science major for one semester. lol. We started with Java.
the CS/MIS department said that C++ would stop being offered and that Java would take its place as a beginner level course.
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My university started allowing students to use Java, but still taught in Contrast++ after I finished. It is 2 different teaching styles, and I prefer low level first because it makes you think about things that when you go to a high level language like Java become trivial but useful in optimization. Granted, it is a steeper learning curve this way and I can see why someone would argue that starting with a higher level language is a better approach. But there are things a lot of people do wrong in Java because they don't understand the basics. The most common result is a memory leak or concurrent modification exceptions. Personally, my path was TI-83 programming, BASIC, C, PHP, OO C++, Perl, Java, Javascript.
-------------------------------------
Sent via the XDA Tapatalk App
my progrmmaing path was:
C -> C++ -> Java
also learned
vb,Vb.net and C#.net ,Java Script,PHP
I would recommend starting with C++ (with atleast basics )and then switch over to Java.
go to EDUmobile.org. They offer an Android development program for about 200 bucks with certification ath the end. They also offer iphone.
I want to focus on developing GUIs but I'm not sure where to start. I just read through a few pages of http://source.android.com/ to get more information and it was helpful but I'm still not sure what my skill set should be. I also went through Google's new App inventor and finished all the tutorials but it still seems like a toy.
I can: design interfaces, code javascript, implement XML (weak on C and Java but I get it), create anything using photoshop or any graphic application, color-coordinate, test and implement and write--I can write technical instructions fairly well.
So... that said, what's a typical Android designer's skill-set?
Thanks.
Patience, mellowness and a strong constitution!
The Android development platforms so far available are pretty poor if you're used to something like Visual Studio. The best option seems to be Eclipse running the Android ADT plugin. There is plenty of documentation about how to get it all up and running and it is quite easy to install and configure. The app inventor is a toy for non-developers to create simple applications and it works well for what it is but as soon as you want more complex UIs or more complex code, especially when it comes to using external libraries, you will need to get into Eclipse.
You have the right skills, in fact I would say UI and graphics design is the weakest area for many developers. It is for me. I can write beautiful functional code that does amazing things but my UIs suck unless they are simple. I always need to find someone who can help me with that. In my experience, and I have a lot of commercial code development experience, good UI design is a widely missing skill. It therefore pays well and is highly sought after. You might consider specialising in it?
Be careful going from C to Java. Java is still a pig of a language, do a little googling for "problems with Java" and be especially careful of the fact that Java passes everything by reference unless you use cloning. If you don't always write very loosely coupled methods and are good with encapsulation, this will bite you and often in very difficult to understand ways. I recommend running through each method with only this in mind before you consider the first version of the method complete.
My advice to you is to get Visual Studio Express (they're free), either VB or C#, it really doesn't matter, and become proficient with object oriented programming, proper error handling and scope of objects and variables. Do these things, and assuming that you have the right mindset to create good code, and you'll protect yourself from all the usual bugs that amateur developers introduce.
Then move back to Java. Java is a lot easier to be proficient in when moving from something like VB or C# because whilst frustrating, due to the things you'll miss, you will at least know rather than "not know what you don't know", if that makes sense.
If you are serious about doing this for a living, buy some books by Steve MacGuire.
"Writing Solid Code"
"Debugging the development process"
If every develope could do what these books teach, we would have a much more capable software world.
Good luck!
I have the same question? What do you think will be future programming? Developing web apps like Facebook or Android apps?
How is with work today?
I did banchelors from computer science, and want to try masters now, but I need to choose developing Androids apps or Webapps. I am pretty good at C#, JavaScript, XML.
There's a lot of milage in mobile apps, will be good for many years but there is no doubt that the future is web apps.
Excellent! What a great response. Source.android has a lot of information on what a developer should know but I still can't find information on Android GUI design--specifically. Any advice on this?
Thanks.
I think everyone should learn some c/c++ or other native language. Most will say im crazy for saying this but to appreciate what comes with the languages u mentioned above(which are all managed code) I think you should learn power and use behind native code.
c#, java, .net are all good places to start, i would not go with vb. If you choose to start with c/c++ you will be able to do any of the above easily. Tho others think its harder to learn...I say others bc i have always preferred c/c++ to the above.
Simonta... You rock!
Many Thanks.
hi guys
I am an 16years old guy android lover.eddicted to Android
after using android from an year I have decided my future to be an Android devoleper
my aim is to work in Google android project or to become an devoleper like cynagon
can u(the best devolepers of xda) say me what languages to learn and all that I need to be a best android developer.
I also have the question that which operating system is good for learning languages and for Android devolepment is it
1 windows
2 mac os x
3 ubuntu
please my life is in ur answers
Really nice to see other ambitious persons wanting to develop in Android I myself have kind of the same question but I will open my own thread about that later.
Now for you.
I would say you should learn Java as I often read. and when you got a good basic of Java ( or any programming language for that matter) about variables and loops.
Also google provides several usefull starting points for android development but I wouldn't start with that before you have a good basic knowledge of programming itself.
http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html
This link I find very usefull you learn how an android app works. Where is the data stored, what does it do when you click an app away( instead of exiting the problem)
http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/fundamentals.html
That is my 2 cents about Android Development.
For OS I myself use Mac OSX I find it alot easier to connect with adb than Windows but I can't say what is better.
Goodluck! hope to see alot of programs from you!
You need to become proficient in C/C++ and all the rest will fall into place. I recommend the linux platform (you mention ubuntu, but there are several) as the android platform is linux based. I use Gentoo myself.
Gene Poole said:
You need to become proficient in C/C++ and all the rest will fall into place. I recommend the linux platform (you mention ubuntu, but there are several) as the android platform is linux based. I use Gentoo myself.
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agreed about c/c++, if you are proficient in c/c++ most if not all other languages will fall into place. its not about the language though but rather the theory and principles behind the languages. I suggest c/c++ because imo if you get c/c++ you get all the others.
Gene Poole said:
You need to become proficient in C/C++ and all the rest will fall into place. I recommend the linux platform (you mention ubuntu, but there are several) as the android platform is linux based. I use Gentoo myself.
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Oh yeah, I agree here as well. In general, Linux is definitely good for learning programming on. All the tools are *free* (most of my college classes dealt with the Linux platform for this reason). Also, at least on Linux, I have not had problems getting ADB to recognize my device. On Windows, I did get my system to recognize my device, but it definitely took longer.
(Using OpenSuSE for my Android development).
Actually, unlike these spectacular developers, I recommend you learn Java. Android IS coded in JAVA and it is an object oriented programming language, which is in many ways VERY different from C/C++.... Then start going through demos of other Android applications till you can read the code and understand what it is doing.
It finally makes sense why Android developers are so far behind the rest in app development....... college degrees would help.
what happens if I learn java, c/c++
mynameisvineeth said:
what happens if I learn java, c/c++
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I'm not sure what the question is here... Are you asking what you should do after learning those, or for more opinions about which you should start with?
Anyway, the best thing would be to take a computer science course. That way you'd learn all the fundamentals of computer programming as well as specific languages. If you can't do that, you can always just teach yourself. For example, I took a few basic programming classes (e.g. a few hours a week for 10 weeks "Introduction to C") but after that, everything I learnt was self-taught in Java using the Android SDK. I've been working at it for about a year now, and published my first app 6 months ago which has been selling slowly but steadily, so it can be done.
There are many many resources online you can find, as long as you have the patience and time to read everything. The two best places to learn things from are the official developer's guide and Stack Overflow; Stack Overflow is a question and answer site for programmers.
if I learn the three languages in the collage can i devolep apps.
my aim is to become an good android software engineer so please anyone suggest which course should I take in the university such that my future will be bright with google.
mynameisvineeth said:
if I learn the three languages in the collage can i devolep apps.
my aim is to become an good android software engineer so please anyone suggest which course should I take in the university such that my future will be bright with google.
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Click to collapse
You don't need to learn all three languages. I would personally learn Java first since it's excellent to learn basic programming concepts in and techniques and it is the main language used for developing Android apps. C/C++ should definitely be learned at some point if you want to work for Google, but you'll need at the very least a bachelor's degree before you get to that point. If you get to that point, I am sure you will have learned C/C++.
I do OK under Windows, but I recommend Linux if you can. USB drivers and I was good to go. Java is great, seems dauting at first. I would get java first. But once you know, you like it. At least I did. Makes it more difficult to make a mistake, IMO.
Of course, I'm just starting. Listen first to the extremely advanced people that post here.
Good luck!
is computer science good for me?
Depends I know a few Computer science schools where they teach PASCAL I don't think 4 years of PASCAL will be usefull so it kinda depends what classes are given there. Don't you have a summary of what classes you get at that computer science school? and furthermore computer science can be useful but I don't think you have to know what hardware is in a computer to create an android app.
SterAllures said:
Depends I know a few Computer science schools where they teach PASCAL I don't think 4 years of PASCAL will be usefull so it kinda depends what classes are given there. Don't you have a summary of what classes you get at that computer science school? and furthermore computer science can be useful but I don't think you have to know what hardware is in a computer to create an android app.
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You have no idea what you're talking about. A computer science degree is not about what language you learn and how to program. It's about the concepts of computer science. It doesn't matter what language a computer science program uses. It has everything to do with the conceprd you learn to apply to programming.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
If you wanna work on Android, start with an app instead of trying to work on the framework. You'll learn a lot more, much faster.
It sounds like your definition of a computer science degree is closer to what I'd call "computer theory".
Q: What's the difference between theory and practice?
A: In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice.
Yes, learning threading concepts (for example) in one language will carry over reasonably well to another... but you'll still need to learn a new API, and no two APIs are conceptually identical. Actually being familiar with a given language/API/OS/IDE out of the gate is a pretty big deal when it comes time to Actually Get Hired... or just doing stuff on your own with It (whatever It might be).
I was going to start a new thread with the following post, but I think my questions fit with this thread...
"I have a scientific/technical background and know some networking and Linux basics (i.e. enough to set up a very functional home server with SFTP, Samba, DLNA server, etc from Ubuntu/Deb packages), but I have very little computer programming training.
Where is the best place to start if I would eventually like to develop Android apps?
Should I focus on programming fundamentals with Java as the main programming environment or step right into the Android SDK with Eclipse?
Any links to recommended tutorials and lessons would be greatly appreciated too.
Thanks!"
It sounds to me like Java is the best language to use when learning programming fundamentals if the intent is to develop Android apps in the future. Links to recommended educational resources would really make this a valuable thread.
@ChiefNugget: Please learn first Java and then if you have understood the basics take a look at the developer.android.com site. You should buy a good Java Programmer Book Click
Couple of things to get straight here:
1. "Android" is written in C++ - This is the OS of the phone, it's not written in Java - if you want to be big like Cyanogen you'll need to know C++ very very well. *Sidenote: EXCITED FOR GINGERBREAD CODE TO DROP SOON*
2. Java is not a compiled language (why no OS is written in it) it is a "Interpreted" language meaning that there is very little change from what you type to what the JVM (Java virtual machine, in our case "Dalvik") actually interprets and runs as "Java Byte Code"
So it depends what you want your concentration to be in, if you want to write machine level code - hit up the C++ side of things, if you want to write Apps - java is where you should go.
How ever, I recommend to anyone who wants to become a developer, learn C++ before you learn anything. It's difficult for a reason - it makes you better in the end when you understand how memory is managed and why you shouldn't do things that lots of developers do.
Kcarpenter said:
Couple of things to get straight here:
1. "Android" is written in C++ - This is the OS of the phone, it's not written in Java - if you want to be big like Cyanogen you'll need to know C++ very very well. *Sidenote: EXCITED FOR GINGERBREAD CODE TO DROP SOON*
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Click to collapse
And linux is written in C.
Kcarpenter said:
2. Java is not a compiled language (why no OS is written in it) it is a "Interpreted" language meaning that there is very little change from what you type to what the JVM (Java virtual machine, in our case "Dalvik") actually interprets and runs as "Java Byte Code"
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That is quite debatable. Between "javac", and JIT compilers, java code does indeed get turned into machine code. And "compiling to bytecode" is still has a valid meaning. When I think interpretted languages, I think "no code is checked until it is executed". You find out about syntax errors when you run it, not when you hit the "build it" button on your IDE.
Kcarpenter said:
How ever, I recommend to anyone who wants to become a developer, learn C++ before you learn anything. It's difficult for a reason - it makes you better in the end when you understand how memory is managed and why you shouldn't do things that lots of developers do.
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Oh, granted. With java you ALMOST don't need to know what pointers are... but what's left will HANG YOU if you're not careful.
GC's spoil you. Kids these days! Why when I was your age... Anyway, getting into the habit of releasing memory early on means closing files and other resources is likewise well understood. Someone learning java only runs into resource management later on... "stunts their growth" as it were... like Europeans and fractions (metric vs Seemingly random combinations of units).
Get off my lawn!
Hello everybody.
Various game concepts have been springing up in my mind lately and I am starting to think that I should make them a reality: that's one of the reasons why I bought OUYA.
Problem is...
I know absolutely NOTHING about programming, but I am eager to learn. Does anybody know how should I begin (besides of course getting a good Java manual, which I plan to do ASAP)?
Thank you in advance.
Pretty much just learn as much Java as you can and then start with the tutorials on the Android website. I've done very little Android programming though...very little.
There is a couple ways you can go. You can either use java code with the sdk, or C++ using the ndk. Java will be much easier to use, but because it utilizes a garbage collector, you need a slightly higher understanding of how the code works to write fast running code. C++ is more difficult to learn, especially for a beginner, but because you manage memory manually you have complete control over how your game runs. I would recommend starting with java. There is a good book called Beginning Android Game Development which is published by APress, that covers all the basics.
timkd127 said:
There is a couple ways you can go. You can either use java code with the sdk, or C++ using the ndk. Java will be much easier to use, but because it utilizes a garbage collector, you need a slightly higher understanding of how the code works to write fast running code. C++ is more difficult to learn, especially for a beginner, but because you manage memory manually you have complete control over how your game runs. I would recommend starting with java. There is a good book called Beginning Android Game Development which is published by APress, that covers all the basics.
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Java first. Garbage collection may be something of a crutch, but if you've never touched programming before in your life, you'll want to focus on learning how to just deal with data structures and methods before worrying about memory management.
Of course, that said, you don't want to learn terrible habits in Java either.
Rirere said:
Java first. Garbage collection may be something of a crutch, but if you've never touched programming before in your life, you'll want to focus on learning how to just deal with data structures and methods before worrying about memory management.
Of course, that said, you don't want to learn terrible habits in Java either.
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Agreed
Thank you everybody! I'm getting the book Timkd127 suggested as soon as I have some spare time
Pkmns said:
Thank you everybody! I'm getting the book Timkd127 suggested as soon as I have some spare time
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Glad to help. I did just remember though, that book approaches game dev assuming you already know some java. You might want to familiarize yourself with the language before you spend money on a text.
timkd127 said:
Glad to help. I did just remember though, that book approaches game dev assuming you already know some java. You might want to familiarize yourself with the language before you spend money on a text.
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Click to collapse
That's my concern for the OP. Most resources I've seen for learning Android development assume some Java knowledge and most Java resources assume some basic level of knowledge about programming in general. In this case the OP is claiming to have none of that.
The good news is there are many paths available, the bad news is there are many paths available
Most paths fall into one of two categories:
1) Very high level - Flash and Unity are the two best examples for Ouya that I can think of off the top of my head. While both allow you to get into the code both also provide ways to build some things without getting much into code. Great for getting up and going but a lot of times you can end up finding yourself limited by your tools when you take this kind of approach. Personally I'm not a huge fan. In general you tend to develop skills that are specific to the engine/platform you're working with rather than general skills. The low barrier to entry can be attractive - but the frustration of making your square ideas fit into the round holes provided by your tools can be an issue down the road.
2) Very low level - Grab a text editor and start coding some java is more or less what this breaks down to. But even this path there are several libraries you can use to help yourself along and you can even get lower level and dive into the NDK to write native code in C++. The steep learning curve can scare a lot of people away from this path - but you tend to build more general skills that are easy to re-apply with other tools and scenarios.
I cover my thoughts on some of this specific to Ouya better in my thread on OuyaForums where I'm following my own progress on building some simple games for Ouya: http://ouyaforum.com/showthread.php?4074-Baby-steps
Even though it's more intimidating I personally strongly suggest taking approach 2 before looking into things like Unity and GameMaker - develop your fundamentals then look into tools that can help you leverage them into bigger and bigger ideas.
Whichever path you take at some point you're going to need to know how to code. If you're starting with absolutely no knowledge about coding then it's going to be a bit harder. For example the Android Game Development book (Which I'm currently reading and finding very good - it's also written by the author of libGDX which is the library I'm using to speed development.) assumes a basic knowledge of Java and suggests "Thinking in Java" which is available free on-line (for older versions but they're just fine) to bring people up to speed with Java. I'm also reading that (actually reading that more than the android game development book right now) to brush up on my Java basics. But at the start of that book the author makes it clear that he assumes a basic background in some other programming language! Apparently the printed versions of that book come with a CD including a multimedia course covering programming basics. Phew! That's a lot of books to get through!
They aren't great but one set of tutorials that is aimed at the complete and utter noob are the Kilobolt tutorials that were actually started here on XDA before moving to the authors own site here: http://www.kilobolt.com/tutorials.html
I'm not completely in agreement with the approach those tutorials take or with all of their examples...but they are the best I've seen for someone starting with absolutely no programming knowledge looking to get into Android and by extension Ouya development.
If I was just starting out the advice I'd like someone to give me would probably be:
1) Start with the Kilobolt tutorials.
2) Once you're through Unit 1 start reading Thinking in Java
3) Once you're through TIJ or Unit 3 add in Android Game Development
4) Once you think you're ready for AGD start looking into libGDX
5) Build a SIMPLE game. Play some old atari 2600 games and try to replicate one.
6) Make that simple game fancier - add some modern touches like better graphics and sound, a high score list, achievements, power ups....
7) Let your dreams take over.
One other source you may want to look into as a total beginner is Udacity...I saw their Java course a few weeks ago and signed up for it but haven't been following it because it's more beginner oriented than I was looking for and...well it's incomplete. One of my big beefs with the Kilobolt tutorials was I started following them last year - and the update rate on them quickly dropped so low I forgot about them. Now that they're complete that isn't an issue. But I wasn't about to dive into another incomplete learning resource so when I saw that Udacity's Java intro wasn't complete I didn't even watch more than the intro video. But it's probably worth checking out here: https://www.udacity.com/course/cs046
jhitesma said:
That's my concern for the OP. Most resources I've seen for learning Android development assume some Java knowledge and most Java resources assume some basic level of knowledge about programming in general. In this case the OP is claiming to have none of that.
The good news is there are many paths available, the bad news is there are many paths available
Most paths fall into one of two categories:
1) Very high level - Flash and Unity are the two best examples for Ouya that I can think of off the top of my head. While both allow you to get into the code both also provide ways to build some things without getting much into code. Great for getting up and going but a lot of times you can end up finding yourself limited by your tools when you take this kind of approach. Personally I'm not a huge fan. In general you tend to develop skills that are specific to the engine/platform you're working with rather than general skills. The low barrier to entry can be attractive - but the frustration of making your square ideas fit into the round holes provided by your tools can be an issue down the road.
2) Very low level - Grab a text editor and start coding some java is more or less what this breaks down to. But even this path there are several libraries you can use to help yourself along and you can even get lower level and dive into the NDK to write native code in C++. The steep learning curve can scare a lot of people away from this path - but you tend to build more general skills that are easy to re-apply with other tools and scenarios.
I cover my thoughts on some of this specific to Ouya better in my thread on OuyaForums where I'm following my own progress on building some simple games for Ouya: http://ouyaforum.com/showthread.php?4074-Baby-steps
Even though it's more intimidating I personally strongly suggest taking approach 2 before looking into things like Unity and GameMaker - develop your fundamentals then look into tools that can help you leverage them into bigger and bigger ideas.
Whichever path you take at some point you're going to need to know how to code. If you're starting with absolutely no knowledge about coding then it's going to be a bit harder. For example the Android Game Development book (Which I'm currently reading and finding very good - it's also written by the author of libGDX which is the library I'm using to speed development.) assumes a basic knowledge of Java and suggests "Thinking in Java" which is available free on-line (for older versions but they're just fine) to bring people up to speed with Java. I'm also reading that (actually reading that more than the android game development book right now) to brush up on my Java basics. But at the start of that book the author makes it clear that he assumes a basic background in some other programming language! Apparently the printed versions of that book come with a CD including a multimedia course covering programming basics. Phew! That's a lot of books to get through!
They aren't great but one set of tutorials that is aimed at the complete and utter noob are the Kilobolt tutorials that were actually started here on XDA before moving to the authors own site here: http://www.kilobolt.com/tutorials.html
I'm not completely in agreement with the approach those tutorials take or with all of their examples...but they are the best I've seen for someone starting with absolutely no programming knowledge looking to get into Android and by extension Ouya development.
If I was just starting out the advice I'd like someone to give me would probably be:
1) Start with the Kilobolt tutorials.
2) Once you're through Unit 1 start reading Thinking in Java
3) Once you're through TIJ or Unit 3 add in Android Game Development
4) Once you think you're ready for AGD start looking into libGDX
5) Build a SIMPLE game. Play some old atari 2600 games and try to replicate one.
6) Make that simple game fancier - add some modern touches like better graphics and sound, a high score list, achievements, power ups....
7) Let your dreams take over.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for all this info! I'll probably dive in the Kilobolt tutorials as soon as I have some free time, then I'll start thinking about which way to take later (I don't know whether all this is more frightening or exciting )
jhitesma that's a very informative and helpful post. Nice.
Has anyone used Xamarin to build their android apps? I have been programming using C# for sometime now but have never used it to build anything for android.
They have tons of free libraries, but as for licensing, I am skeptical in purchasing. Anyone like or dislike Xamarin? If you do or do not, can you explain why? Thanks a bundle!
Haven't used it but you have to think whether it's worth the price. The advantage is you can write in C# and share code between Android/iOS. However the UI is still platform-specific, so it has to be implemented twice. A free alternative is to use C++ for shared code (Android: via NDK, iOS: compiles directly), but that definitely needs more initial setup effort than buying Xamarin's product.
Here is an informed opinion
There is a gaming studio that used Xamarin to port their WP stuff to Android and iOS, and they're quite happy with how it turned out.
Do a search for "FourBros Studios, Cross-Platform Game Development with Xamarin and MonoGame". I can't post a direct link because of forum rules here.
Of course games are entirely different beasts than regular apps (for example, UI-wise), so not everything may apply to your situation.
I've plaid with Xamarin... and its a good system.. but Is it worth $300 to not learn java?
Cross platform development tools have their place, but IMHO unless you have a large project and NEED a cross platform development tool you are hurting yourself by not going native.
Just my .000002c
Java is so similar to C# I would think you'd be fine just going native - in terms of syntax they're virtually identical. I do kind of miss the var keyword though lol
I agree with LostByte - there's no real point to going cross platform unless you really need it. Don't stay with C# just because it's what you know! Use what's most appropriate for the app