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Hi,
I've noticed a huge performance difference between kernels and the roms they're used with.
For example:
I was using AOKP and Franco kernel and got around 20000 antutu points, I've switched to Carbon Rom (because of the build in pie control) and Franco kernel and only get around 13000 points, that's a huge difference.
As a test I've installed Matr1x-kenel on Carbon and get around 21000 points.
I really like Franco-kernel and all the tweaks it offers but don't like the huge drop in benchmarks, I know benchmarks are not a real representation of actual performance but it's still a big difference.
This also occurs in Quadrant and Geekbench.
So my question is why does this happen?
Aren't most roms supposed to be compatible with most kernels?
Thank you in advance.
Best regards.
I can't answer your question as to why that happens (no doubt someone else will) but you seriously should just stop bothering with benchmarks and use your own eyes and experiences as a measure of how good a kernel/ROM is. I doubt you could find a kernel which made the phone visibly slow or that affected usability so I don't see what your concern is tbh.
Thanks for your answer.
Yeah, I read that a lot on XDA, don't trust benchmarks...I understand that but they must have some meaning.
I mean, if not why do they exist or do people bother using them?
To be honest I don't really notice any real performance difference between most kernels I've tested.
Best regards
some roms include many optimizations(like skia/dalvik, krait optimizations, and others), while some dont. its not thekernel thats crapping out on you, its the rom.
---------- Post added at 07:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:58 PM ----------
Nigeldg said:
I can't answer your question as to why that happens (no doubt someone else will) butcomseriously should just stop bothering with benchmarks and use your own eyes and experiences as a measure of how good a kernel/ROM is. I doubt you could find a kernel which made the phone visibly slow or that affected usability so I don't see what your concern is tbh.
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your eyes can be decieved.. they can see whats happening in the ui for example, but you can not see the complex calculations that are being performed or how your cpu is really performing. you can have a slow device whos ui is quick.
OK, I can understand that not all roms are equal but why does changing the kernel have such a seamingly big impact?
If a rom is bad to begin with it should stay that way no matter what kernel you use with it.
Offcourse what do I know, I'm not a developer so my knowledge on the subject is limited.
I'm just trying to understand what's going on...
Best regards
Pihkal said:
OK, I can understand that not all roms are equal but why does changing the kernel have such a seamingly big impact?
If a rom is bad to begin with it should stay that way no matter what kernel you use with it.
Offcourse what do I know, I'm not a developer so my knowledge on the subject is limited.
I'm just trying to understand what's going on...
Best regards
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Click to collapse
kernels vary too, and they impact greatly because they control just about everything in the phone, kinda like a brain. since the kernels themselves vary, one kernel might be better set up than another to deal with certain code from a certain rom. and then also, every phone reacts differently to each kernel(and roms to a point). thats why its recommended to try out different kernels, combos. only then you can find the perfect combo for you/your device. what works great for somebody, can be lousy for another.
OK, so if i understand correctly it boils down to this:
1. You can do benchmarks but don't base your opinion on just the benchmark scores.
2. Roms can vary greatly in optimizations and efficiency of coding.
3. Kernels can also vary greatly in optimizations and efficiency of coding.
4. There's no such thing as a "best for everyone rom/kernel combo".
5. Not all roms/kernels play equally nice with each other.
6. Play around with as many roms / kernels as possible and decide what works best for ME based on MY experience.
Thanks for the advice.
Best regards.
Its been well over a year since I ran any benchmark of any sort but I tested Franco and carbon because that's what I'm on and you mentioned low scores. I'm on Franco m3 with some tweaked settings and carbon nightly from 7-5. Antutu gave me 20636. I'm using stock CPU and GPU frequencies.
username8611 said:
Its been well over a year since I ran any benchmark of any sort but I tested Franco and carbon because that's what I'm on and you mentioned low scores. I'm on Franco m3 with some tweaked settings and carbon nightly from 7-5. Antutu gave me 20636. I'm using stock CPU and GPU frequencies.
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Maybe the nightly Carbon rom is more optimized?
I'm on Carbon 1.7 Stable and used Franco nightly 162 to test with.
When I benchmark I try to be as consistent as possible ie same temperature, performance governor, airplane mode etc.
I even cooled my Nexus in the freezer for some minutes to eliminate thermal throttling (yeah I know, watchout for condensation) but still got the same low scores.
Best regards.
Pihkal said:
Maybe the nightly Carbon rom is more optimized?
I'm on Carbon 1.7 Stable and used Franco nightly 162 to test with.
When I benchmark I try to be as consistent as possible ie same temperature, performance governor, airplane mode etc.
I even cooled my Nexus in the freezer for some minutes to eliminate thermal throttling (yeah I know, watchout for condensation) but still got the same low scores.
Best regards.
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It might be, I didn't do anything special. I left all my background apps running, didnt close anything in the recents, didn't cool the phone first. I just downloaded it and hit start. I use the interactive governor tweaked a bit, and I also tweaked the hotplug settings so it more readily onlines all 4 cores instead of waiting for some of the higher loads to trigger it.
username8611 said:
It might be, I didn't do anything special. I left all my background apps running, didnt close anything in the recents, didn't cool the phone first. I just downloaded it and hit start. I use the interactive governor tweaked a bit, and I also tweaked the hotplug settings so it more readily onlines all 4 cores instead of waiting for some of the higher loads to trigger it.
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Well, I had to try it myself so I did a factory reset, cleared system,data and dalvik, installed latest carbon nightly.
With stock kernel I almost reached 21000 points, with franco I barely get 17000 points.
Very strange...
edit:
I stand corrected, did a second benchmark and am now getting 20880 points...
are you benchmarking with your cpu speed benchmarked set as highest and lowest cpu speed? you should. if you dont put the same cpu speed as highest and lowest then itll scale up and down. if it scales, you dont actually know what speed its testing and it gives you inconsistamt scores. you want the cpu speed to be the same throughout the test.
When I benchmark I set the governor to performance, this should keep the cpu running at maximum speed without scaling unless I'm mistaking...
Pihkal said:
When I benchmark I set the governor to performance, this should keep the cpu running at maximum speed without scaling unless I'm mistaking...
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meh, performance is the worst for benchmarking. its such a deceiving name. try either ondemand or interactive. set your cpu speed to be the same high and low.
simms22 said:
meh, performance is the worst for benchmarking. its such a deceiving name. try either ondemand or interactive. set your cpu speed to be the same high and low.
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Woow, that's a great tip, I now get 22003 points with Matr1x-kernel.
Pihkal said:
Woow, that's a great tip, I now get 22003 points with Matr1x-kernel.
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better :highfive:
Hey guys,
I wanted to get everyone's feedback and experiences between the 3 kernels. I realize that every device behaves differently, but was curious about which ones people have tried, if they found any cool things about specific ones they really liked Or if you wanted to share your experience about the latest build.
Thanks!
Trinity and franco are about the same, but trinity>franco.
KTmanta is in a totally different league, it offers total customization and imo is the best kernel just because of that.
Franco and Trinity are all about performance where ktmanta is about battery optimizations and customizations.
I haven't used Franco or trinity in a while, I know they score higher in benchmarks if that means anything at all.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
I think everyone knows my preference, but they are all good kernels. Unfortunately this tablet is not on Franco's priority list and does not see much development. I dont believe it has a 4.3 compatible version yet and the last release has a serious bug that causes SoD for most people.
I like Trinity and KManta for different reasons (those stated above). If I need to squeeze out battery life, I go with KManta and tweak the settings accordingly. But for my day-to-day use, I like Trinity for its smoothness. Just my two cents
Awesome input guys! Real useful information.
How would you guys describe KTManta when just using the stock values? When you guys say "customization", do you guys mean the voltage settings and stuff like that? I've been flashing for years, but have never really understood how that worked. Which is funny, because I am an experienced PC overclocker. People say the concept is very similar. If KTManta's customization options were removed, would it be then comparable to Trinity? Or would it still be better without all the options?
Would you guys say Trinity still has decent battery life? Compared to KTManta at stock values?
Which one does Chrome work the best with?
Thanks!
Stock for stock Trinity is better because Morfic hardcodes overclock and undervolt values into the kernel and sets up all that stuff as his stock settings for the kernel. KTManta allows you to do those things and WAY more, but does not set them up as stock values because Ktoonsez prefers to keep the default settings for his kernel closer to the default settings of the stock AOSP kernel. So while Trinity may have -50mv undervolt to everything and a GPU overclock of 620MHz (I think that is the speed?), KTManta allows you to go +/- 200 mv to any frequency step for CPU or GPU that you feel like and also allows OC to 2.1GHz on CPU and 720MHz on the GPU if you want to, as well as RAM OC if you want to, and control of the scaling of every part of the chipset, again if you *want* to. But it doesnt set any custom stuff as default since everyone's device is unique and people want to do different things with it. That is why we have pre-made settings available from various users so that you can load custom values to try out without having to go through a bunch of experimentation yourself.
Is there any kernel that allows one to overclock the 6p's GPU and/or RAM? I know you can overclock both CPU clusters so I thought this might be possible as well.
Also, I read awhile ago that undervolting was not possible on the 6p. Does this still hold true?
Thanks
Would still love to know if this is possible. I know that the Snapdragon810 version 2.1 is inside the 6p, which has a stock GPU clock of 630mhz but unfortunately it's onlyclocked to 600mhz.
michaelearth said:
Is there any kernel that allows one to overclock the 6p's GPU and/or RAM? I know you can overclock both CPU clusters so I thought this might be possible as well.
Also, I read awhile ago that undervolting was not possible on the 6p. Does this still hold true?
Thanks
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The max frequency for the GPU is at 600 mHz. And speaking based on my own usage (as I have no data about other uses), it's very rare for the phone to reach that frequency, even when doing gpu-intensive tasks like gaming. So I think that value would suffice for the heaviest graphical tasks you'd throw at it. That said I've tried almost every kernel out there-AK, Kylo, Franco, Elemental, Googymax, Lean, Zigzag, and God's (back in the day) and have never seen a GPU value higher than 600 mHz so I guess that's the max limit which the GPU reaches as far as kernel tweaking goes.
As for RAM, I don't think there's such thing as "overclocking" it, though some custom Kernels provide customization for ZRAM, Low Memory killers, Virtual memory options, etc. If you wish to maximize the available RAM and memory performance then disabling ZRAM and tweaking the other values will be the way to go.
As for undervolting, I could gather from past reading that the values are only present on most kernel tweaking apps for visibility purposes. Mainly for People to know the stock voltages of the phone. I don't think it can be tweaked, and in the first place tweaking it is not ideal due to the big.Little nature of the SD 810.
Overall, my personal opinion is that even if such extreme customization (GPU and RAM, undervolting) is possible I'm afraid it won't be practical. The overall custom kernel development the phone enjoys is already top notch, and already pushes the boundaries of performance and battery life. (thanks to our Kernel Devs) Suffice to say we are currently in kernel tweaking heaven already.
So I installed Kernel Adiutor to tweak the I/O performance and was kinda curious about the governors and all. I noticed that all 4 cores stay on at ALL times. Is this normal behaviour? Why is there no hotplugging? could it be implemented in a custom kernel?
Coming from a Snapdragon 801 which had quad custom cores, it used to have hotplugging to save battery. Thanks for answering if anyone knows
Nik2424 said:
So I installed Kernel Adiutor to tweak the I/O performance and was kinda curious about the governors and all. I noticed that all 4 cores stay on at ALL times. Is this normal behaviour? Why is there no hotplugging? could it be implemented in a custom kernel?
Coming from a Snapdragon 801 which had quad custom cores, it used to have hotplugging to save battery. Thanks for answering if anyone knows
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My only guess here is probably the Developer haven't add support for the new'er Snapdragon chip/s?
Been using Kernel Auditor for awhile and I see sd820 reads as single cluster where should 2 (big-LITTLE) . Well just a thought
ok that makes sense, do you know of a kernel tweaker which is updated to work with the new snapdragons by any chance?
I found an app that works, for anybody who is interested, EX Kernel manager works great with the big.LITTLE cores on the s820, happy tweaking!
I'm currently trying out the Interactive governor tweaks posted around the forums
Is anyone working on a kernel to overclock our amazing phone's CPU?
Umm are you trolling?
Really???... Not fast enough for some, I guess! :silly:
tekno4ever said:
Is anyone working on a kernel to overclock our amazing phone's CPU?
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The way the clock frequencies are done on this phone, the kernel has no control to overclock.
I asked the developer of ElementalX and also checked to see if thermal-engine existed.
No dice. No overclock.
Only GPU overclocking
So there in no known method of overclocking either Snap 845 or 855 CPUs, right? (i mean throgh software/kernel)
I've never seen the point of overclocking especially with latest chipsets
RaduNastase said:
So there in no known method of overclocking either Snap 845 or 855 CPUs, right? (i mean throgh software/kernel)
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Is not possible, the CPU frequency tables are stored inside something called "TrustZone", basically the bootloader, and no one outside of Qualcomm has the ability and the tools to control or make changes in that area of the processor.
onliner said:
Is not possible, the CPU frequency tables are stored inside something called "TrustZone", basically the bootloader, and no one outside of Qualcomm has the ability and the tools to control or make changes in that area of the processor.
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Even rooted? ...how very interesting... 0_0
This means not only that we can not overclock (and this must also mean voltage table is ..off the table), but also we can not "set" a certain min/max frequency, right? Let's say i want to have a min/max of 2.8 ghz, it can't be done through kernel
RaduNastase said:
Even rooted? ...how very interesting... 0_0
This means not only that we can not overclock (and this must also mean voltage table is ..off the table), but also we can not "set" a certain min/max frequency, right? Let's say i want to have a min/max of 2.8 ghz, it can't be done through kernel
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Actually you can. It requires a Kernel that supports Overclocking. As of now there is no Kernel for the 6T that supports CPU Overclocking. Smurf has GPU OC but not CPU. Besides, the 845 is already a beast so I dunno why would you want to OC
I think me and more features will be driven by the chipsets themselves and will use a Trust Zone not accessible from the kernel (like widevine).
What is sure is that many CPU clock parameters are not accessible, that's why only GPU OC is present. This have been discussed in different kernel threads.
And the real question is why OC on those fast CPU, just to empty faster the battery and warm the phone in winter?
Mannan Qamar said:
Actually you can. It requires a Kernel that supports Overclocking. As of now there is no Kernel for the 6T that supports CPU Overclocking. Smurf has GPU OC but not CPU. Besides, the 845 is already a beast so I dunno why would you want to OC
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You can't overclock the cpu on newer socs period.
RaduNastase said:
Even rooted? ...how very interesting... 0_0
This means not only that we can not overclock (and this must also mean voltage table is ..off the table), but also we can not "set" a certain min/max frequency, right? Let's say i want to have a min/max of 2.8 ghz, it can't be done through kernel
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Click to collapse
Isn't related to root or unroot, It's a limitation set at a lower level, lower than the operating system or the kernel.
You can modify the ramdisk to set the Max/Min frequencies, but those values must be within the stock values of the processor, I mean, you can't create a new frequency, you should use one that already exists.
onliner said:
Isn't related to root or unroot, It's a limitation set at a lower level, lower than the operating system or the kernel.
You can modify the ramdisk to set the Max/Min frequencies, but those values must be within the stock values of the processor, I mean, you can't create a new frequency, you should use one that already exists.
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Oh, so min/max can be adjusted? That's something at least. Sometimes the CPU assesses wrongly the speed needed to properly run an app (a very CPU heavy one) so restricting the CPU to lower the frequency provides the best performence possible on that hardware.
And yes even a powerful Soc like 845 and even 855 are pushed to the limits by certain apps.
RaduNastase said:
Oh, so min/max can be adjusted? That's something at least. Sometimes the CPU assesses wrongly the speed needed to properly run an app (a very CPU heavy one) so restricting the CPU to lower the frequency provides the best performence possible on that hardware.
And yes even a powerful Soc like 845 and even 855 are pushed to the limits by certain apps.
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It's not the apps fault, the scheduler is a bit broken in 4.9 thanks to CAF.
RaduNastase said:
restricting the CPU to lower the frequency provides the best performence possible on that hardware
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Yes and no, OOS applies boosts from the userspace, I mean that although you limit the frequency of the processor, in certain circumstances that limit can "break" (I don't use custom roms on this device, so I don't know about it, but probably the same thing happens).
This is interesting. I want to look. Into tz and see what I can find