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ive been trying to figure this out since yesterday but i am completely lost and really need help..
this started yesterday. i had my phone connected with adb and pulled some files (LatinIME.apk, framework-res.apk). i did not push or delete any. around the same time i download fx camera. all the work i did was actually just on the computer. the only thing i did on the phone around that time was use root explorer to check the name of the .apk for fx camera.
im not sure if any of that could possibly mean anything but i thought maybe it was worth mentioning.
here are the symptoms. right after i was done the phone was acting sluggish and crappy (it always does when i disconnect from usb since i switched to froshedyo v10) so i rebooted. upon booting up, 90% of apps were missing. i didnt feel like using titanium backup to manually "ok" each install, so i opted for a fairly recent NAND backup to restore to. i did but upon booting up, the same apps were missing.. very weird right? i know they were there when i made the backup.. so now i decided i had to use titanium. but when i began i noticed that it wouldnt install any app. it would hang on the "installing" screen forever. i rebooted and this time tried an app from the market, only to have the same results.
i did try wiping everything and starting fresh (with froshedyo v10). a strange thing happened. after logging in and setting up the basics i left it alone to restore the apps. when i checked later i had the notification, "applications partially restored". i never had that before.. it seemed like maybe a few more apps were there, but not much. i was mostly in the same boat. and again, titanium backup and market would not install any apps..
please help.. whats going on??
---------latest info--------
i wiped everything and tried to start fresh with a brand new copy of nonsensikal 16.1. no apps were restored, and i am unable to install or uninstall any app on the phone. it will just hang on the installing/uninstalling screen.
i have done multiple wipes and flashes, testing each time to see if anything is working, but it has not worked once. i can not install or uninstall any apps.
Were you using Apps2sd? I wonder if it could be something with that. Especially if your rom seems to be fine. Is everything else showing up on your sd card?
the file manager on the phone shows all my sd card contents just fine.
i believe when i first installed this rom about a week ago i did find an option somewhere in settings that said "choose location to install apps" (i chose external) and "allow moving of apps to external" (i chose yes).
Try downloading Eris market fix from the market. See if that works.
Sent from my FroyoEris using XDA App
rhamej said:
Try downloading Eris market fix from the market. See if that works.
Sent from my FroyoEris using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oooh, i would love to download that app from the market if it might fix my inability to download and install apps. if only i was able to download and install apps..
Oops, my bad. I just skimmed over your post and saw 90% of apps gone. So even if you had an apk on your sdcard it wont let you install it?
Sent from my FroyoEris using XDA App
U could flash the vending.apk that should bring back your market
rhamej said:
Oops, my bad. I just skimmed over your post and saw 90% of apps gone. So even if you had an apk on your sdcard it wont let you install it?
Sent from my FroyoEris using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC Incredible 2.3.1
flash this through recovery
mindnumbinglyfun said:
ive been trying to figure this out since yesterday but i am completely lost and really need help..
this started yesterday. i had my phone connected with adb and pulled some files (LatinIME.apk, framework-res.apk). i did not push or delete any. around the same time i download fx camera. all the work i did was actually just on the computer. the only thing i did on the phone around that time was use root explorer to check the name of the .apk for fx camera.
im not sure if any of that could possibly mean anything but i thought maybe it was worth mentioning.
here are the symptoms. right after i was done the phone was acting sluggish and crappy (it always does when i disconnect from usb since i switched to froshedyo v10) so i rebooted. upon booting up, 90% of apps were missing. i didnt feel like using titanium backup to manually "ok" each install, so i opted for a fairly recent NAND backup to restore to. i did but upon booting up, the same apps were missing.. very weird right? i know they were there when i made the backup.. so now i decided i had to use titanium. but when i began i noticed that it wouldnt install any app. it would hang on the "installing" screen forever. i rebooted and this time tried an app from the market, only to have the same results.
i did try wiping everything and starting fresh (with froshedyo v10). a strange thing happened. after logging in and setting up the basics i left it alone to restore the apps. when i checked later i had the notification, "applications partially restored". i never had that before.. it seemed like maybe a few more apps were there, but not much. i was mostly in the same boat. and again, titanium backup and market would not install any apps..
please help.. whats going on??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think you have a market problem...it sounds like an sd card issue which would explain alot of the symptoms including issues when unmounting from pc. If all your apps are installed on the sd and the card doesn't mount right they will "dissapear" as you have described. Try changing the setting to install apps back to internal and then apps should install. If apps install after you do that it probably means the sdcard is corrupted so you will need to back up the files on your sd and then reformat the card. PLEASE remember to back up the sd card before reformatting since it has your nand backups on it. The market fix is only a fix for apps not showing in the market not on the phone.
lol its ok rhamej.
i think i should clarify though that i do have a market. it may be worth noting that i used to have a blue themed market, which during this problem seems to have reverted to the stock green market. but i do have a market.
when i try to install from the market, it just kind of stalls when i accept the terms and permissions needed by the app. like, when i click the final "ok" which should then lead to the app actually beginning to download, it just stops. doesnt freeze the market or FC, its almost like the button is unresponsive.
when i try to install an app via file manager from sd card, it hangs on the "installing" screen. same with titanium backup.
----------developments------------
i couldnt stand not having my apps so i did a NAND back to nonsensikal. my apps were all restored this time but im still having problems installing.
from the sd card: hangs on install.
from the market: now will download, but hangs on install.
Conap said:
I don't think you have a market problem...it sounds like an sd card issue which would explain alot of the symptoms including issues when unmounting from pc. If all your apps are installed on the sd and the card doesn't mount right they will "dissapear" as you have described. Try changing the setting to install apps back to internal and then apps should install. If apps install after you do that it probably means the sdcard is corrupted so you will need to back up the files on your sd and then reformat the card. PLEASE remember to back up the sd card before reformatting since it has your nand backups on it. The market fix is only a fix for apps not showing in the market not on the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i did change that one setting back to internal, and disallowed moving apps to external. it didnt seem to make a difference though. i will take your advice on backing up the data and reformatting though. thanks.
mindnumbinglyfun said:
lol its ok rhamej.
i think i should clarify though that i do have a market. it may be worth noting that i used to have a blue themed market, which during this problem seems to have reverted to the stock green market. but i do have a market.
when i try to install from the market, it just kind of stalls when i accept the terms and permissions needed by the app. like, when i click the final "ok" which should then lead to the app actually beginning to download, it just stops. doesnt freeze the market or FC, its almost like the button is unresponsive.
when i try to install an app via file manager from sd card, it hangs on the "installing" screen. same with titanium backup.
----------developments------------
i couldnt stand not having my apps so i did a NAND back to nonsensikal. my apps were all restored this time but im still having problems installing.
from the sd card: hangs on install.
from the market: now will download, but hangs on install.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
we must have been posting at the same time but these all still sound like what i mentioned in my above post. Your apps are back with nonsensikal because they probably weren't installed on sd when you made the nand for that rom.
mindnumbinglyfun said:
i did change that one setting back to internal, and disallowed moving apps to external. it didnt seem to make a difference though. i will take your advice on backing up the data and reformatting though. thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol posting at same time again...you are probably typing right now...try rebooting the phone also after the setting has been changed....for some reason froyo depends too much in my opinion on the sd card and really can cause issues with it.
quick question. what format should my micro sd card be in? i know i formatted it right around the time i got it, to FAT32. im assuming thats correct but i would like to double check. google isnt answering my question fast enough..
still no progress.
i wiped everything, flashed a new nonsensikal 16.1. apps didnt automatically come back. i can not install or uninstall apps on the phone. they all hang on the installing/uninstalling screen.
how could this have happened? how can i fix it? i will gladly do a more thorough wipe. i wiped data and davlick. what else could i do to completely reset my phone to fix this problem? that is assuming that there is no other ideas of options.. i hope there is!
edit: in regards to previous ideas, i reformatted my sd card (FAT32) and replaced all the files.
mindnumbinglyfun said:
still no progress.
i wiped everything, flashed a new nonsensikal 16.1. apps didnt automatically come back. i can not install or uninstall apps on the phone. they all hang on the installing/uninstalling screen.
how could this have happened? how can i fix it? i will gladly do a more thorough wipe. i wiped data and davlick. what else could i do to completely reset my phone to fix this problem? that is assuming that there is no other ideas of options.. i hope there is!
edit: in regards to previous ideas, i reformatted my sd card (FAT32) and replaced all the files.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could try the flashback 21 file here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=792026
That should take you back to stock and replace your custom recovery with the default one. You could then re-root. I don't know if that's what you want, but that would be about as complete of a reset as you could get as far as I know.
Does anyone else know if this is the best option? I would hate to mislead...
I had a problem similar to this after I dropped my phone. I could not install any apps (market or .apk) and reading of my SD card was spotty at best. What fixed it for me was first deleting the .android-secure folder on the sd card. [NOTE!: this may delete some/all apps/app data you have so I hope you have a backup]. I have no idea why but the .android-secure was not happy at all ;] I believe you have to delete it on a computer because android file managers just can't do it.
mindnumbinglyfun said:
still no progress.
i wiped everything, flashed a new nonsensikal 16.1. apps didnt automatically come back. i can not install or uninstall apps on the phone. they all hang on the installing/uninstalling screen.
how could this have happened? how can i fix it? i will gladly do a more thorough wipe. i wiped data and davlick. what else could i do to completely reset my phone to fix this problem? that is assuming that there is no other ideas of options.. i hope there is!
edit: in regards to previous ideas, i reformatted my sd card (FAT32) and replaced all the files.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you put all your files back on your sd card after reformatting it? I would try reformatting the card and then see if it works before you put your files back on. Like the previous poster said the android_secure folder could be messed up and if your copying it back could still cause issues.
dbnaruto said:
I had a problem similar to this after I dropped my phone. I could not install any apps (market or .apk) and reading of my SD card was spotty at best. What fixed it for me was first deleting the .android-secure folder on the sd card. [NOTE!: this may delete some/all apps/app data you have so I hope you have a backup]. I have no idea why but the .android-secure was not happy at all ;] I believe you have to delete it on a computer because android file managers just can't do it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a link talking about doing this on the op of my floyo rom thread
well that android_secure thing seems to have been the problem! thank you guys very much! i just deleted it and rebooted and i am now able to install and uninstall apps, both from the sd card and market.
it got to the point where i couldnt connect via usb unless i was in recovery so things were getting pretty frustrating. im glad its over. any guesses what might have caused this craziness?
Hi Guys,
My phone is rooted & I have deleted bloatwares.
Its showing low memory, is there any solution available??
How low is low in your case?
Sent from my arc or optimus 2x
PollPixx said:
How low is low in your case?
Sent from my arc or optimus 2x
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have deleted some apps & current status is 355mb used of 380mb
The DiskUsage is showing following apps:
Fast Five apk
22.7MB 22.6MB
Real Football data 7.44MB
14.3MB apk 6.87MB
ArcMedia apk
13.3MB 13.3MB
.
.
.
Is there any way to use Apps2SD type of thing?
I assume you have moved those that can be to your sd card already?
Sent from my LT15i using XDA App
If not you have built in app2sd. Go into applications click on the app you want to move then click move to sd
Sent from my LT15i using XDA App
IntMD said:
I assume you have moved those that can be to your sd card already?
Sent from my LT15i using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried Apps2SD sometime back, but that was causing problem as some apps stopped working properly due to that
Also there are some strange stats I have, will share tomorrow..
xperiax10.awesome said:
I have deleted some apps & current status is 355mb used of 380mb
The DiskUsage is showing following apps:
Fast Five apk
22.7MB 22.6MB
Real Football data 7.44MB
14.3MB apk 6.87MB
ArcMedia apk
13.3MB 13.3MB
.
.
.
Is there any way to use Apps2SD type of thing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
May be a silly question but do you clean temp files of apps?
You can also try Move2SD Enabler from this post.
It allows you to move certain phone only apps to SD.
Eg. Fast 5 will become 264kb instead of 22.7mb on the ROM. The rest is installed to SDcard.
Remember to thank the guy if you do.
constin said:
You can also try Move2SD Enabler from this post.
It allows you to move certain phone only apps to SD.
Eg. Fast 5 will become 264kb instead of 22.7mb on the ROM. The rest is installed to SDcard.
Remember to thank the guy if you do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, I will install this today, right now in office
But could you tell me whats is this application, I can't see this app in any market?? !!!
xperiax10.awesome said:
Hi, I will install this today, right now in office
But could you tell me whats is this application, I can't see this app in any market?? !!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It changes a string for the installation location to be on the sd card.
So that apps that normally install to rom can be installed to sd.
However, it's not retroactive. After you changed the installation location to external memory, you can manually move apps to sd by going to settings and applications.
It's on the market but that version only works on Froyo. This one works of on gingerbread.
constin said:
It changes a string for the installation location to be on the sd card.
So that apps that normally install to rom can be installed to sd.
However, it's not retroactive. After you changed the installation location to external memory, you can manually move apps to sd by going to settings and applications.
It's on the market but that version only works on Froyo. This one works of on gingerbread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
THANKS button pressed
Simply use Titanium Backup to move applications to SD card...!!!
xperiax10.awesome said:
THANKS button pressed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now my phone is using just 200mb/380mb
I own a hd2 with the lates nand hyperdroid rom, and a a2sd partition on my 16 gig sd card.
Now, my phone's memory is full at the moment. I cant even update my current apps due to low memory. So I deleted 5 apps worth of 4 mb. However i can't still update for example the shazam app, which is a 1,5 mb upgrade.
Now, my questions are.
1. If I delete 4 mb worth of apps, why can't I still update the shazam app? 4-1,5 would mean I have 2,5 mb left, right?
2. Second, how can updating apps cost so much memory. Sometimes I need to deleted a few apps in order to update some apps to the newest version. I assumed a new app version wouldn't cost a lot of extra memory.
3. in titanium backup I see there is 28,9 of system rom, 26,3 of internal memory and 800 mb of a2sd left. How come it says memory is full?4
4. Is there a solution to installing more apps?
I'm sorry if my questions are a bit vage, but it's just frustrating that I cannot install the apps I want.
Anyone?(a)
Sent from my HD2 using XDA App
meaxx88 said:
Anyone?(a)
Sent from my HD2 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
try going into settings and than applications than manage it should show you a list under downloaded. go into some of your apps you downloaded not widgets or important things that you use like button savior cause they wont wont when on sd card. youll see an option to move to sd card move it wait for it to say move to phone than its complete do that to a couple of apps then try to update the app, but take shazaam out of sd card if its there then try to upgrade it if it doesnt work. or back up all your apps than reflash.
meaxx88 said:
Anyone?(a)
Sent from my HD2 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
I noticed when I moved apps to my sd card using SuperBox,that it moved the app,but left the data on the phone.
If you have apps with large amounts of data(saves,etc.),these will be causing your problem.
Try using root Explorer or something similar and look into the cache folder. Apk files that you download from market are saved there sometimes. You can delete them there. You also can move your dalvik to sdext. Easiest way is a2sdgui.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA Premium App
So I've got the froyo now and had a problem and had to start over. Before the restart I had saved quit a few apps to my SD Card... clean install don't detect them. Do I need to just format card and reinstall from market or what?
I did a clean install too. Did you use titanium back to save the apps? Thats how I restored all my apps.
pre4speed said:
I did a clean install too. Did you use titanium back to save the apps? Thats how I restored all my apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I moved them to SD in the Settings>Applications>Manage Apps menu. Figured that would do it.
Why would you use apps2sd when link2sd exists?
It is far superior!
Sent from my MB508 using Tapatalk
rignfool said:
Why would you use apps2sd when link2sd exists?
It is far superior!
Sent from my MB508 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to agree here. Check out my experience with apps2sd versus link2sd here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1218518
However...
Link2sd now can't keep lib files on the sdcard thru a reboot...
Sent from my MB508 using Tapatalk
rignfool said:
However...
Link2sd now can't keep lib files on the sdcard thru a reboot...
Sent from my MB508 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My lib files are still linked. but maybe thats the problem with my phone freezing 20 times a day now. IDK. Hopefully an update to the update will come soon cuz Im sick to death of it freezing.
I spent about 2 hours last night trying to get Link2SD to work on my flipside and could not. I followed the guide and set a main FAT32 partition and a secondary ext2 partition and the phone rejected and told me to make teh 2ndary FAT32 so i did that and then the phone rejecting it and said something else it.
Anybody care to explain how exactly they got this working? I tried searching through the main post but thats 100 pages of questions with few answers and I coudln't find anything that helped.
Mine was a hassle the first few times I tried on eclair as well. I just kept changing the size of the partition until finally it worked. I couldnt tell you the exact steps as it was long ago.
boazjuggalo said:
I spent about 2 hours last night trying to get Link2SD to work on my flipside and could not. I followed the guide and set a main FAT32 partition and a secondary ext2 partition and the phone rejected and told me to make teh 2ndary FAT32 so i did that and then the phone rejecting it and said something else it.
Anybody care to explain how exactly they got this working? I tried searching through the main post but thats 100 pages of questions with few answers and I coudln't find anything that helped.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Completely reformat your card to fat32, then using partition magic, create the second partition as FAT. Put card in phone, reformat, run Link2SD, and reboot phone.
RESTART Link2SD and go hog wild moving your programs to sd card...
If you backed up ypur card to your pc, copy over the folders to the sd card.
I know reformatting is extra (uneeded?) Steps, but it worked juat fine for my wife's phone. A restart gives her almost 58 megs free...
Guys, I'm trying to move my games to my External SD card since I've got only 1gb left of my internal, but when I try to do it just from the Application Manager inside Settings, it only moves a few megabytes (X-Com Enemy Unknown has 3.7gb and moved to SD 60mb of it, awesome...)
I'm rooted, using X-Note 13, knox tripped 2 minutes after getting inside the house with the phone, I don't care about warranty or stuff, just... Could someone provide a fix, please? Tried App2SD, Link2SD and other apps like this, but it seems all they do is just move provide me with a shortcut to the same Application Manager from Settings that does the same useless thing. I didn't get a 64gb sd card to move 60mb out of 3.7gb from a game, seriously...
I think it depends on the programing of the game what can be moved and what not. Some programs can't be moved at all, but most of the big games I have, large portions of the data was moved to SD card during the install all by itself. If you just purchased the card, maybe reinstalling the game from start would give you better results, if that was an option? Also it seems to me you're using close to 25 GB of internal storage but you only mention one game, surely you must have many other large programs installed, what about them? There are some programs that can fool the system into "thinking" your external SD card is internal memory and your internal memory becomes external, but I don't have details ATM, also this could create problems if your SD card went bad.
And maybe you should take a hard look and see if you really need all those programs? If I didn't keep the tabs and clean all the junk, delete less frequently used programs etc. on regular basis, 96GB of memory wouldn't be enough either LOL.
I mentioned just one game as an example. I have quite a lot of space-hungry games, such as Bard's Tale, Modern Combat 4, Gangstar 4, Amazing SpiderMan2, etc...a total of around 40 games, mostly large games, and I have basically moved everything I could from Application Manager, yet it moved very very very little out of them. I tried deleting and reinstalling them, formatting my sd card, reflashing the rom from scratch with fresh sd, basically same thing every time. I got this phone to be able to have a mobile console with me that can also receive calls (boring job, games on phone help a lot), and now my sd seems so pointless
Internal Memory 26.3gb - 1.2gb free
Ext SD Card 59.0gb - 42.6gb free
bump, please?
The only app that worked for me is FolderMount [ROOT].
RinaldiMe, thanks a lot man, I just bought that app, testing it now, but from it's description, it should do exactly what I hope . It requires individual move of each app and folder, but it does the trick, thank you so very much
Will come back with replies as soon as I move 5-10 apps and test it out more
L.E.: Nope, bought the app, not just the free version, moved some files, still didn't work, apps just thought they didn't have their files and wanted to redownload...
Back to square one
bump (
posedatull said:
bump (
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm assuming your on kk bootloader and dunno if Mattiadjs int2extsd mod will work on 4.4, but I've been using his script meant for JB 4.3 that switches where the huge data and obb files are stored to your extsd instead of internal storage.
Try checking the galaxy s4 thread for the kk mod, I'll try looking too and post a link for ya. I know what your going thru as I have over 500+ apps/games and needed the 128gb SanDisk to store all my obb/data files along with pics and mp3 media.
Here's the link to the kk int2extsd mod
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=46146090
Sent from my SM-N900T using xda premium
---------- Post added at 02:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 AM ----------
Folder mount should work too it's just more complicated and is more meant for cm roms imo.
Sent from my SM-N900T using xda premium
posedatull said:
Guys, I'm trying to move my games to my External SD card since I've got only 1gb left of my internal, but when I try to do it just from the Application Manager inside Settings, it only moves a few megabytes (X-Com Enemy Unknown has 3.7gb and moved to SD 60mb of it, awesome...)
I'm rooted, using X-Note 13, knox tripped 2 minutes after getting inside the house with the phone, I don't care about warranty or stuff, just... Could someone provide a fix, please? Tried App2SD, Link2SD and other apps like this, but it seems all they do is just move provide me with a shortcut to the same Application Manager from Settings that does the same useless thing. I didn't get a 64gb sd card to move 60mb out of 3.7gb from a game, seriously...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TRY THIS MATE
http://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-s2/themes-apps/tool-directorybind-data-to-externalsd-t1410262
@fahdil3536, tried that app, but it doesn't seem to work... I will try more tomorrow after work, maybe I didn't set the folders properly (doubt it,but still). Seems the most promising thing I found out until now, thank you
posedatull said:
@fahdil3536, tried that app, but it doesn't seem to work... I will try more tomorrow after work, maybe I didn't set the folders properly (doubt it,but still). Seems the most promising thing I found out until now, thank you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any luck with that link I sent you, it's really easy to use as you just flash it in recovery. Your rom and kernel need to support init.d and it only works on TouchWiz roms.
Sent from my SM-N900T using xda premium
d12unk13astard said:
Any luck with that link I sent you, it's really easy to use as you just flash it in recovery. Your rom and kernel need to support init.d and it only works on TouchWiz roms.
Sent from my SM-N900T using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
myeah... tried that link, did what I expected... broken basically everything
Restoring a backup now, hoping it'll work. Basically it still saw my internal sd as internal sd, but it didn't see my card properly anymore (and yes i did check the exfat or fat32 version to use)
Are you tried App2sd?
posedatull said:
@fahdil3536, tried that app, but it doesn't seem to work... I will try more tomorrow after work, maybe I didn't set the folders properly (doubt it,but still). Seems the most promising thing I found out until now, thank you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read op instructions. You have to put the same name folder both internal and external. Example: titanium backup. Both of internal and external must have the same name and caption.
Put all the titanium backup data in external titanium backup folder.
Leave titanium backup folder in internal empty.
Run the app, and select the correct path.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Don't bother mate it didn't work. Maybe its not compatible with KK.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Anyone? Please
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Yeah, apparently SD cards are useless when it comes to apps nowadays... awesome
posedatull said:
Yeah, apparently SD cards are useless when it comes to apps nowadays... awesome
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any luck? this seems to be a generic android problem. can't believe no one figured out a solution yet. tried link2SD but it doesn't seem to see the full game size... detects something like 50 mb offf a 3 gb game...
assume u r note r rooted...install Xposed installer, then download a module obb on sd , enable it at the modules after downloading and installing, reboot and them move any game obb data from the note internal memory to the SD after creating folder Andriod/obb at sd
working at my note 9005 4.4.2 echoerom v19