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Hello all
As a relatively new user of the G1 it raised some questions in my mind about its design.
The thing is that all the exciting things are there but some basic things are missing.
First did the designers intention was to enable only English speaking users to use it? Why there is no built in multi language support? Even if the user itself speak English but he is a Japanese and wants to comunicate with friends and relatives not speaking English - he can not.
Second - did the designers realy thought that 256MB of internal memory will not run out of space very quickly, when the whole idea of the phone with the Market is to download applications for it? Why not give the user to choose where to install the application at the installation time? It is like that on my Nokia E65.
What about all the trivial little things that I was so sure they are there, that I did not bother to ask about them, things like choosing where user data - like contacts etc - will be saved, copying the contacts and other user data to the SD card weather or from the SD card to backup or restore them. Again my Nokia has it and it is basic function on any Hand Held device.
When you mount the phone on a PC what do they have to hide when showing only the SD card content?
What is the result - talented people here and else where like JF are trying to Hack/Fix/Go around all these flaws in the design - and realy doing a great job - instead of focusing on developing new and exciting applications for us the users of the phone.
Does any body have an explanation for these design flaws?
Have a good day and thanks to all the developers out there fixing the designers poor design (at least on some basic functionality).
Ophir
New os, first device running the os, they just wanted to present something. The first car ever produced sucked too, it just happens.
ophirb said:
When you mount the phone on a PC what do they have to hide when showing only the SD card content?
Ophir
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Click to collapse
When you mount the phone to the PC, it only mounts the SDcard. No ones hiding anything, but if you're using a stock G1 then thats all you really have access to anyways, and thats prolly the way google intended it, considering the OS is open source, so im sure while android was being developed they couldnt figure the need to hack a device thats already open source. So why would they make it to where any everyday user can just hook up the phone, delete the whole system "accidently", and then have a $400 brick? Cuz you know thats what everybody would do if they could...theyd go deleting things that they dont know what the hell they even do, then go whining to google or tmobile when their phone is ruined. Who wants to shell out all the money to replace all the phones that were bought by complete and utter MORONS who will settle for nothing less than to go messing with stuff they dont understand until they've rendered their phone completely USELESS? Not me, and surely not google, either. So if you want to have the phone mount the whole system, then make your own build and add that functionality. Thats the beauty of an open source platform, they made it SAFE FOR ALL USERS, and then advanced users who actually know what theyre doing can change it any way they want. So dont complain about the way android was released because it is, by no means, a finished product. So if you dont like it, CHANGE IT. Or pay someone else to change it for you. Whatever. But the point and the beauty of this OS is that YOU CAN change it, you arent just stuck with ****ty functionality, you can change whatever you want to make your device do whatever you want. Dont just sit around crying about the current state of android...get out there and make it better, for yourself, for all of us, or accept it the way it is and leave it alone.
-BMFC
Mine is multilingual... Under regional settings I change the language to spanish.
RSchmauk said:
Mine is multilingual... Under regional settings I change the language to spanish.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ditto. Even though the hardware keyboard is English, there are plenty of alternative Virtual Keyboards on the market that have multi-language support, including middle-eastern and Asian ones.
Re: 256MB int memory... That's a huge "WTF" in my book. This phone should've had HTC Hero's specs of 512MB RAM and 256MB ROM.
Installing apps to SD card can be accomplished with custom ROMs. For everything else - "there's an app for that".
Keep in mind that Android is still in its infancy. As the OS and SDK mature, you will see all those features, and many more.
CBowley said:
New os, first device running the os, they just wanted to present something. The first car ever produced sucked too, it just happens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your saying the Ford Model A sucks? haha
What Should have been
The first car though did have four wheels an engine a steering wheel etc all teh BASIC stuff where there.
Today we have all the other goodies AC, ABS, Stereo etc.
In the G1 it is like they started with the goodies and left the basic out.
Since the OS is open source it can be modified, but if installing a modified ROM, it voids the warrenty.
So if you spent a lot of money buying the G1 discovered these flaws in the design and wants to rectify it by using a modified ROM you loose your warrenty.
Bare in mind that this is not a cheap device and so is expected to perform and have MORE functionality then a cheap device.
I whould not even bring all this up if it was a cheap device.
ophirb said:
Since the OS is open source it can be modified, but if installing a modified ROM, it voids the warrenty.
So if you spent a lot of money buying the G1 discovered these flaws in the design and wants to rectify it by using a modified ROM you loose your warrenty.
B
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could always just flash with stock firmware and perform a hard reset.
Don't get me wrong, in general I like it, it is just that it seems to me careless not to include those basic features. They, as a professional designers should be able to figure out the design better and it is not that they did not have anything to rely on, many smart phones are out there to learn the good and the bad from.
ophirb said:
it voids the warrenty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you come up with THAT nonsense?
If you change the software and the LCD quits, the LCD is STILL under warranty.
So after all the hype, the troubles getting an activation code, and then installing WP7 on my HD2, I sit here waiting for my Android DesireHD Nand build to finish re-installing on my device.
I thank the community so much, as I was so obsessed with getting WP7 (i've been a fan of Microsoft's os since my dell axim days) that I was even planning on upgrading my contract early just to get an HD7.
But the truth is.. in which way is this better than WM 6.5?? After two minutes in on this OS i sat there thinking to myself: "Really!!??" Oh wait this is how the dude who made the new Windows Phone commercial got the idea...
Just my two cents.
fair point..
It just depends on what you want to get out of it.
Android may work better for your needs now, WP7 with a bit of development may work for you better in the future.
I tried android for a few months a while back (the SD card builds) and liked it initially but then I found it couldn't do everything I wanted in 6.5. The lack of an equivilant to Softmaker was important.
Granted WP7 cant do anywhere near what 6.5 could (lacking of decent office apps like softmaker) but it does what it does very well. Right now i'm enjoying the ride - It reminds me when I first started palying around with my SPV C500
i had very poor expectations, im a heavy WM6.5 user and i ran Android of SD as a general intrest but since ive got WP7 ive found myself thinking, you know what, it works, it works well, its quick and i dont have this urge to mod the crap out of it.
The only thing WP7 on HD2 lacks is a decent camera app.
Above that, i suppose there is a couple of programs i need from WM which is a real pain, i really think that WP7 needs some kind of advanced mode, every day joe via the carriers wouldnt need it but a hidden setting could open it up for us, that way MS keeps its image, its identity to the world and we get that wee bit more freedom we all want, that setting would apply to business users that may need more access, and again, by checking that option MS removes all responsibility from anything that goes wrong, everyone wins!
Most people just want a phone that just works and it is easy to work with. And I think WP7 is very easy to use, and will appeal to the masses.
Need to say more??? wp7 is easy to use, user frienldy and....AWESOME...
I also love Android because you can customize it, many apps and more! But there is something with wp7 that makes me horny!
Just stick around with WP7 and i think it wont dissapoint you!
i have to agree with most of the positive comments here ... i only tried wp7 out of curiosity and just because our beloved hd2 can!! i was pleasantly surprised at the speed and usability. i love the nice clean interface especially the mail client. sure it lacks a lot of apps at the moment but surprisingly i the angry birds withdrawal symptom went away faster than i expected and i'm finding it hard to go back to android even though i do have it on as dual boot.
Actually the only things I really miss from WM6.5/Android are:
1. Choice of browsers. IE Mobile is fine but some sites are not dispaying properly. Opera usually fixes this in WM6.5 and Android.
2. Some sort of Skype, but I guess this is coming soon to WP7 anyway.
3. Ability to attach any sort of file to e-mails. I'm still to figure out how I can attach and send a PDF i downloaded through the browser
Other than that WP7 has many pluses:
1. Excellent e-mail client. By far the best out there on ANY smartphone.
2. Best Office experience out there.
3. Mind blowing games
4. Very neat and clean interface.
5. It's fast and furious.
TheOnly1 said:
Actually the only things I really miss from WM6.5/Android are:
1. Choice of browsers. IE Mobile is fine but some sites are not dispaying properly. Opera usually fixes this in WM6.5 and Android.
2. Some sort of Skype, but I guess this is coming soon to WP7 anyway.
3. Ability to attach any sort of file to e-mails. I'm still to figure out how I can attach and send a PDF i downloaded through the browser
Other than that WP7 has many pluses:
1. Excellent e-mail client. By far the best out there on ANY smartphone.
2. Best Office experience out there.
3. Mind blowing games
4. Very neat and clean interface.
5. It's fast and furious.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nicely said dude!
Yeah I agree with most of this.
WP7 is slick, and i really like the basic functions.
WP7
+dialer/txt/email
+Zune
+presentation
-slow to load apps
-hardly any apps and the price of apps is high (no skype, no Nav, no flash, no XDA)
-having to reload apps, (no multitasking)
-browser isn't recognised as mobile a lot of the time
- that tile list is going to get very long once more apps come
Agreed. Nice, clean and simple. Reminds us that it doesn't always have to be about 300 different (mostly unnecessary) apps and all the other bells and whistles but a nice simple and effective interface. Wasn't too sure about it at first but it's definitely growing on me!
GeoMil said:
- no Nav)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Nav = Navigon Select. Works very fine
I agree with the possetive comments too
but the minuses :
there's no GPS and that sucks (hope to find some)
No greats APPs that I love like WhatsAPP, Waze, Skype...
and Not a big fan of the Camera.
But... And this is A Big but...
The OS is Awesome!!! the speed, the clean, the beauty
I'm tempted... but
Is there any solution that's working for WiFi tethering? Is there a multi-client IM app? I also would prefer that there was a better way than through the browser to access gmail and google voice, but I doubt we'll ever see a native app for either of those.
I may load it when I have a couple of days to play just for general interest though.
You don't need a "native" Gmail client. Outlook handles Gmail more than fine and delivers it as push mail if you wish so. WP7 syncs also with Google Calender and GMail Contacts, so switching forth and back between WP7 and Android is very pleasent as all your contacts and appointments are instantly there
I was shocked to see how well WP7 supports Google services
Pros:
WP7 is FAST
Love the GUI
Love integration of social stuff
Zune
Xbox Live
Most of the apps I need are there and are better than anywhere else (Twitter, RSS, Facebook, Ebay etc.)
Games are good
Cons:
Absence of smart dialer!
USB drive! (there is no legal way how to get 55MB pdf to the device)
No data backup!
No multitasking for in app downloads etc (coming)
More customization (backgrounds, ringtones)
****ed up syncing with live (I have horrible problems with my main Live ID)
Poor contacts management (no groups, no favorites)
Absence of some apps (Zinio, proper turn by turn, flash) - they are coming, and I understand, that this is normal with new OS:
I love WP7 and am sticking with it. For me, there is more pros than cons. Everything Windows phone does, it does right. MS just needs to bring us the stuff that WP currently doesnt do
I have been using WP7 since it was made available for HD2 and I love it. Very fast and clean UI.
I agree with everything you have here. Its actually kind of nice to have a OS that just works. I haven't restarted my phone in almost 3 wks now. Microsoft really needs to step up with their Bing turn-by-turn directions and new hardware. If HTC comes out with better hardware for Tmobile soon I will definitely upgrade to windows phone 7.
Wp7 is ok but it really needs a better browser! I'm back to android only because of missing flash and the bad browser experience
Edit: the locked down OS is another no go for me. I need usb storage and teetering.
I prefer WP7 over Android because it offers proxy setting right out of the box. To me Android is just a fancier Windows Mobile. And I quite like the smoothness of IE though I wish it would handle more than 6 tabs.
chumaj001 said:
Cons:
Absence of smart dialer!
USB drive! (there is no legal way how to get 55MB pdf to the device) even The OS is not legal, so you should be fine with the illegal way
No data backup! Coming soon with the next update prob.
No multitasking for in app downloads etc (can be done with 3rd party soon)
More customization (backgrounds, ringtones) with chevron you can
****ed up syncing with live (I have horrible problems with my main Live ID) Only with you
Poor contacts management (no groups, no favorites)
Absence of some apps (Zinio, proper turn by turn, flash) - they are coming, and I understand, that this is normal with new OS:
I love WP7 and am sticking with it. For me, there is more pros than cons. Everything Windows phone does, it does right. MS just needs to bring us the stuff that WP currently doesnt do
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I <3 WP7 forever
Hello everyone,
I'm chiaotzu and I'm from India. I bought HTC Wildfire a week ago and still learning the things. I must say I'm impressed with everything in it, but I still think I'm missing few points so I'd appreciate if someone can focus on few things. Here are few questions:
1. My Android Version is 2.2.1, does this means I have froyo?
2. I haven't upgraded anything, I've got above version when I bough the phone, so will I able to root the phone? (Sorry no idea why I wanna do that, just coming from iPod Touch, I presume it's something similar to Jailbreak)
3. If I'll be able to root, what is the procedure and are there any risks involved?
4. People are talking about CM7, Openfire and other stuff, what are they? Are they custom firmwares like sn0wbreeze for iPhone?
5. Will I be able to overclock my HTC Wildfire? If yes, How?
6. Is there any software which will make "Google Maps" to cache the data with the specified diameter and level, I'm not looking for any third party software. Because most of them are not easy to use or not working properly. If there is any software which can download maps for offline use and still able to locate me using GPS without internet connection, kindly mention it, I'll give it a go.
7. While using handsfree, when I get call from someone or SMS, is there any software which will read out the name of the calling person if from contacts list, if not, just read out the number and contents of the message if its a text message.
8. Any book reading software which can read ePub format and has the same interface as iBooks with support for Audio books and PDF books?
9. Any alternatives for Awesome note?
10. Best dictionary out there? It was wordbook for iOS?
11. What application should I use to get the best combination of size and quality. I convert my DVD movies using MeGUI using x264 and Nero AAC with MKV Container using 535 Bitrate for Video and 32 for Audio. But I think MKV won't go well with Android, so kindly let me know any application, free or paid? Also kindly share with me your best settings of bitrate that you think are sufficient or okay to have.
I must say, I'm impressed with HTC Sense giving us the full control over the screens, its like desktops of Linux, all 7 of them, but more awesome. I have no words to express my joy and screen resolutions isn't bad at all as many people say, which is a good thing because it saves battery I suppose.
Also for people who have installed Winamp, kindly remove it because it makes handfree button obsolete which starts winamp music instead of receiving calls.
Thanks and looking forward to answers.
PS: xda-developers, I thought it's a community for developers with hardcore programming, but thank god we have general section here.
1. Yes, you have froyo
2. Sorry, but you can't root your phone yet, the Froyo version of WIldfire has something different, just wait/
3. You'll lost warranty, and guest what, anything can happen.
4. Yeah, they are popular custom ROM for Wildfire
5. You can, flash OC kernel or custom ROM and install setCPU
6. Lastest Google Maps can cache for offline use afaik, or you can use many other app in the market
7,8,9,10: I don't have answer now
Funnnny said:
1. Yes, you have froyo
2. Sorry, but you can't root your phone yet, the Froyo version of WIldfire has something different, just wait/
3. You'll lost warranty, and guest what, anything can happen.
4. Yeah, they are popular custom ROM for Wildfire
5. You can, flash OC kernel or custom ROM and install setCPU
6. Lastest Google Maps can cache for offline use afaik, or you can use many other app in the market
7,8,9,10: I don't have answer now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Thanks for confirming.
2. Oh, guess I'll have to wait then. Fair enough, I'll just get myself familiar with Android stuff before jumping into something like that.
3. Ohh, but I want to know if something wrong happens at the time of rooting or flashing the Wildfire with new custom ROM (Firmware or Modified OS?), will I able to switch back to whatever I had previously? If my phone crashed at the time of rooting or flashing, will I able to install the original 2.2.1 OS from somewhere somehow?
4. What is ROM? I presume its a modified version of Software or Firmware or OS of Android. Am I correct?
5. What do you mean by flash? Does flash means just erasing previous data from chip and installing new ROM? Or just changing few files in the OS to suit our requirements?
6. Google maps can cache the maps that we view or get directions for. I want to cache the whole city map so I'll get home safely if I'm lost or will be able to find some address easily.
Thanks a lot for answering the questions and yes, I have one more question.
What application should I use to get the best combination of size and quality. I convert my DVD movies using MeGUI using x264 and Nero AAC with MKV Container using 535 Bitrate for Video and 32 for Audio. But I think MKV won't go well with Android, so kindly let me know any application, free or paid? Also kindly share with me your best settings of bitrate that you think are sufficient or okay to have.
Thanks a lot, I know I type a lot, but I'm excited a lot about my Wildfire.
i'm kind of new too, so for the application question, I'll leave it to other people.
The flash process (install OS or install patch...) is pretty safe now, and you can get original ROM to go back to the original Froyo, but I pretty sure you'll not have to do this.
The ROM = the kernel, OS and the core system app, flash a new ROM means you install a new OS into your phone (similar to firmware on iPhone ? I don't have iPhone)
The whole flashing process is automatic for the end user like us, when rooting, you will have a new recovery call clockworkmod, in this you just have to choose the zip file of the ROM you want.
The newest version of Google Maps cache your data for offline use, and there's ton of app in the market that has offline access and navigation too, so you don't have to worry
Funnnny said:
i'm kind of new too, so for the application question, I'll leave it to other people.
The flash process (install OS or install patch...) is pretty safe now, and you can get original ROM to go back to the original Froyo, but I pretty sure you'll not have to do this.
The ROM = the kernel, OS and the core system app, flash a new ROM means you install a new OS into your phone (similar to firmware on iPhone ? I don't have iPhone)
The whole flashing process is automatic for the end user like us, when rooting, you will have a new recovery call clockworkmod, in this you just have to choose the zip file of the ROM you want.
The newest version of Google Maps cache your data for offline use, and there's ton of app in the market that has offline access and navigation too, so you don't have to worry
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot mate for the explanation, really appreciate it. Your elaborated explanation cleared out so many things and feeling secure now about the whole process.
I'd appreciate if someone answers rest of the questions.
If you root and install a custom rom you lose the warranty, but if you can still flash a RUU ROM (aka original rom) from http://shipped-roms.com/shipped/Buzz/ you have an 90 % chance of the service guys not knowing that you have modified your phone.
6. Mapdroyd has some good offline maps and it`s very simmilar to Gmaps, I highly encourage you to test it, just dowload the country you are interested it and you`re done.
8. For PDF files I recommend Repligo Reader, brilliant piece of kit. For Epub I`ve heard of FBReaderJ, but I don`t really know if it work on QVGA, you`ll need to test it out.
1. Yes.
2. No. Froyo has a new HBOOT (eqt. of bootrom on an ipod touch) which is not rootable currently.
4. Custom ROMS, since android is open source, its very easy to customize. so different "flavors" exist. sorta like distros on linux. Although, you cant get these either thanks to not having root.
5. Since you can't root, no.
6. No. I've tried a lot.
7. i dont know, maybe.
8. Laputa book reader, and Aldiko book reader
9. i dunno wat that is, sorry. If its a note taking app, then theres color note, springpad, etc.
10. ColorDict. Dictionaries are plugins, has pronunciation, thesaurus, etc. get it.
11. mp4 works fine, but movies arent really good or enjoyable on our crappy screen Make sure the resolution is QVGA (320x240) not sure abt bitrate settings, sorry
Thanks a lot guys for the answers, definitely cleared some doubts.
I upgraded to Android 2.2 on my Wildfire and now I feel like a Jack Ass !
This topic cleared many of my doubts as well.....Since I am also new to Android !
Thanks for the help !
At least with windows 7.x you could switch ROMs and side load useful apps, with this safeboot thing and Microsoft's lame attitude to give us more of the features and apps that we want it's no wonder why Windows Phone 8 fourms and blogs are so boring. Way to go Microsoft.
Agreed. I used to come here every day but, now it's once a week (kind of how it was on PPCgeeks.com). No roms, No interop unlocks, no unlocks period.
If you want more discussion about WP8, I suggest going to WPcentral.com...It's pretty active over there...
I really wish a hack of some type would hit, this is getting old. I just want my custom colors back (like I have with WP7).... Advanced Config I miss you !!!
Nobody has been able to find an exploit yet , but I don't really mind lack of activity in forms though as long as cobwebs don't settle upon the entire ecosystem itself we'll be fine
DavidinCT said:
Agreed. I used to come here every day but, now it's once a week (kind of how it was on PPCgeeks.com). No roms, No interop unlocks, no unlocks period.
If you want more discussion about WP8, I suggest going to WPcentral.com...It's pretty active over there...
I really wish a hack of some type would hit, this is getting old. I just want my custom colors back (like I have with WP7).... Advanced Config I miss you !!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea I agree that WP Central has lost more action going on but it's all the same stuff; I mean how many reviews of itsdagram, Facebook, Angry Birds and Skype can one handle before they get bored.
I always use to wonder why XDA turned into Android forum almost over night; now I know why its thanks to Microsoft. I feel sorry for Nokia though they took a big risk and now MS is being stubborn.
sinister1 said:
Yea I agree that WP Central has lost more action going on but it's all the same stuff; I mean how many reviews of itsdagram, Facebook, Angry Birds and Skype can one handle before they get bored.
I always use to wonder why XDA turned into Android forum almost over night; now I know why its thanks to Microsoft. I feel sorry for Nokia though they took a big risk and now MS is being stubborn.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, it's the same *****ing over there sometimes. Don't get me wrong, it's a good site if you want new and useful Windows Phone news. This site used to be a WM haven, just like PPCgeeks was. As that is all there was at the time, we had WM and BB...they were all mainly used by business people or hackers like ourselves.
WP7.x was pretty hackable after a while (with custom roms for most phones and interop unlock for about 90% of the models) so it was pretty active but, now with everyone moving to WP8 (ex WP7 users and converts) and No hacks yet, it's slowed down to almost nothing.
Android is mostly hackable and most phones have or NEED a custom rom, so this became a haven for Android users. And for now, as long as they are not going in this area and trolling, there is no issue with it or at least, I don't have an issue with it.
I do think it's a matter of time, they will find a exploit in WP8. I know why MS locked it down, once WP7 was hacked, it opened the doors for the pirates and some people took advantage if it. Sure there was some cool underground apps but, it just opened the system for the pirates. They wanted to lock down WP8 to make the higher end DEVs come and create the apps and games people want, to grow the system.
Nokia was paid pretty well to make a change to WP and over all they are doing very well with it...and their market is growing.
I'm stil deciding if I am going to pick up the Lumia 928 or stick with my HTC 8X(full price, Not giving up my unlimited data)....Hmmmmm... I just wish I could use Advanced Config to get my custom tile colors back
^stick with 8x at least till Nokia world sometime in September because surprises are on its way
Personally I like the very secure nature of my windows phone, I have rimmed more than my share of devices over the years, so its kind of refreshing to k ow this nuts hard to crack. Nokia did take a big risk but I think its been good for both companies. Nokia has done well with exclusive apps in a starved market and there devices are aimed well at a growing group of android overloaded users. With apps like tumble, netflix, Hulu and others coming over the devices are getting more main stream support and with time that will pay good dividends too. All in all I have found little reason to "root" this device other than for the hell of it. They come pretty lean on apps out of box. The biggest thing people seem to be trying to do is get tethering to work without paying out to a carrier for it. Personally if that's basically the reason your wanting to rom so bad, go back to android its far easier get going. I ramble now though, to sum up phone runs great unrommed, clean eco system and very secure setup makes for an all around pleasant device. I think special rimming is more or less unneeded for these devices. Been running unrommed windows mobile 7 and 8 now for about two years collectively. Have android tablets all rommed and a s3 rommed as a backup device.
Sent from my RM-878_nam_usa_100 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Meh... I considered WP7 without hacks to be nigh-unusable, even though I stuck with a stock ROM. No way to have apps open files automatically, for example (but I could manually add the registry entries, and could write apps that knew how to handle them). No way to access the filesystem (but I could sideload Kindle ebooks using homebrew file managers). No way back up app data or messages (except with homebrew). Minimal control of theming (as a class, this was one of the biggest homebrew categories). No real control over multitasking (I like that the default behavior is so conserving of battery life, but sometimes I don't *want* Puzzle Quest 2 or Fruit Ninja to have to go through its entire launch process just because I switched tasks or let the phone sleep for a bit!). Severe limit on sideloaded apps (I have over 30 of them, counting small utilities that that I developed, and not counting outdated versions, redundent apps, or anything else I removed). No listener sockets (though this didn't require a very fancy hack). No C++ code reuse (same as the server sockets). No way to tell how much space each app was using (but there's a homebrew for that).
WP8 fixes many of the worst problems. We can now register filetype handlers (though Kindle still doesn't register .MOBI or .PRC, so no more sideloading my ebooks for now...), use native code (with restrictions, but it's better than the default on WP7), and theme our phones (well, a litttttle bit more than before; still not enough). They added some much-requested features (SMS backup, variable text size, ability to control the browser app bar at least a bit, WiFi on while sleeping, Skype integration) and of course the change in OS brought many other improvements (multi-core, removable SD cards, higher resolutions, etc.). However, it still has some big problems of its own. True multitasking is still very limited. Data backup is still iffy. Still no filesystem access (or ability to do anything outside an app sandbox except the official Settings tools). Still very limited sideloading.
I promise you, though, people are working on it. I'm one of them, and several of the other names you know from WP7 hacking are as well.
People like GoodDayToDie & netham45 make the windows forums so much fun to follow
nikufellow said:
^stick with 8x at least till Nokia world sometime in September because surprises are on its way
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea but, I am on Verizon....After a release of a model it will take 6 months for Verizon to get a phone that is almost outdated on release.
The 8X is so limited on space that it's driving me nuts, If I find app or game I want to try, I have to uninstall a Paid app to install it. It's getting too old. 8X on format is 11.5gb and the Lumia 928 is 23.5gb, a little over double the space might be worth it, depending on what I can get it for, of course.
The blogs are dead because places like XDA that centralize around modding your phone to improve performance isn't necessary when WP8 software already performs flawlessly. Go to blogs like WPCentral and the Windows Phone community is alive and well swapping out our black Lumia shells for yellow and talking about games and apps. Pretty much doing what we should be doing on a phone, not repairing phones that came broken.
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
I've been wanting to root/unlock my Lumia for one purpose only, sideloading my own developed apps. It's gruesome to try an app in the emulator all the time, but in a month that will be fixed with an AppHub account. And after that my real purpose for rooting/unlocking is gone.
Always fun to see what's possible on the unlocked device though, code-wise.
Sent from my Lumia 920 using Board Express
GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If there is one thing I do not understand about the new SDK APIs, is why on earth an app can not register itself to open file formats reserved by the system. IMO thats the most retarded idea ever implemented in the history of computing. And to make the retarded thing completely retarded, they made it so most common files are handled by system apps, so you can not override the file association.
I am really wondering what is microsoft going to do about these things. If they really want a marketplace full of games, facebook, youtube and instagram apps, then they should stick to their current plan. WP will never get useful in a broad sense.
I hope the update this fall brings new stuff, otherwise the platform will die soon.
GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? ... You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although I don't agree with much of his bill-of-particulars, I have to agree with GDTD's sentiment.
Probably, modders need to correct deficiencies. I'm down with MS or anybody else who steps up. I'm in no hurry to crack my OS open right now, though.
I am especially offended at Microsoft's pitiful PDF reader attempt. And some of the apps in the store make me squint. I want to see the author "Google" emblazoned on my YouTube app, not a third party dev. I sure hope MS is putting these apps under a microscope.
The joy of homebrew (and of a developer forum, like this one) is, even if your goals are different from mine, it's possible for you to make your own changes to the device. It's yours; you control it. That's what security *means*, or at least what it's supposed to mean: you (the owner) are in control of what happens.
Ever since the iPhone, though, the trend has been twoards more and more lockdown, taking control away from the device owner and branding this as "security". I don't like it, so I aim to break it. Ideally, we break it in ways that only work with a local attack; I don't want somebody else able to control my device (that really would be the opposite of security)... but I do want to control it myself!
Part of the problem is that there have been no updates in recent months. Portico came out, Nokia dropped some new firmwares last month. But largely, nothing has changed in WP8 since launch. Personally, I find that boring. Maybe I should have an Android phone on the side to keep me entertained with updates, but I find Windows Phone much more usable day-to-day.
It has been more than 6 months since the WP8 launch, and GDR1 didn't really add much. Microsoft should have planned to have GDR2 out by now, even if it meant postponing some features for GDR3. I think most of us would rather have small quarterly updates to WP8, rather than a massive upgrade once a year. It's starting to feel like WP7 and the Mango anticipation all over again, now that it sounds like WP8.1 might be delayed into 2014. Hopefully they come through with their vaporware enthusiast program to keep our attention in the meantime.
I agree with the OP. Cobwebs on this side of the section totally. A thread in a week may be? But there is something I often read on many forums. People who are happy (I know it's a very wide term) with their devices, I.e don't run into problems with their devices, see no need to lurk around. So actually, it is a good sign. It shows how well-thought after a WP device is.
And GoodDayToDie, even though I agree with everything u've noted down, I don't quite believe WP needs all of that.
Still no app data backup machanism. - Umm...Data Sense?
Still no custom themes. - Fair Enough, but again, WP IS NOT meant to be themed to the T
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC. - I believe this is for security reasons.
Still no filesystem access. - Why do you even want that when the system is running flawless, (yes the same word u scorned at.)
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?) - LOL! You gotta be kidding me right?
Android has the worst permission management I have ever seen in my adult life. Android gives wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy more information out than any OS out there.
Still no way remove "Settings" apps. Umm..u sure u want that?
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking). Multi-tasking is really good with WP8.
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it). - Fair enough, but not a deal breaker either.
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer. - I believe you are again entering the territory of themeing, already replied above. Every OS comes with it's own email client. I don't see the point here.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card. - Fair enough. By far the best point in your list.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth. - In what way?
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry. - Again, WHY? WHy mend it when it's not broken.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps - U can download the app(paid or otherwise) from the App store on your computer, put it on the SD card and say install from the Store App on the phone. Simple?
DataSense has nothing even remotely to do with backing up (and restoring) app data; where'd you get that idea? Vital feature that homebrew eventually made avaialble in WP7 but is missing in WP8.
"IS NOT meant" nothing! Somewhere under all that sandboxing and locked-down UI is a general-purpose OS running on top of highly capable hardware. It's "meant" to be whatever the owner fo the device *wants* it to be, including (in the case of many, many people if the popularity of WP7 homebrew apps is any sign) theming. Stop being an apologist for Microsoft; it's one thing to say "extensive theming wasn't implemented because other features were higher priority" but when you start trying to tell me that I'm not supposed to theme it, you seriously need to put down the Kool-Ade. Besides, the very claim is ludicrous to the point of disingenious; have you *seen* the WP8 ads? They all stress the customizability of the Start screen. To the point of suggesting you can "meet" a person simply through how they have their phone set up... those ads freaking scream "customize me!" Then you discover there's only a handful of pre-set colors, two background styles, and the ability to mess with the tiles; nothing else.
No, it is quite absolutely *not* for "security" reasons. Security means the owner of the device controlling the device's behavior. If somebody else (like, for example, the manufacturer of the device) is controlling its behavior, that is not security; it's lockdown. The sideloading restriction can only be called security if it's not your device but actually belongs to Microsft. Screw that. Besides, that argument makes no sense anyhow; if I can pay my $99 and sideload with a PC, why can't I sideload without one (or without paying)? The marketplace has DRM to mitigate piracy and that's a darn weak excuse to cripple a device anyhow.
When I can load my Puzzle Quest 2 savegames and other game progress and high scores, copy my PGP keychain, sideload my Kindle ebooks into the Kindle app (yes, this is possible on WP7), extract or replace the built-in audio files, and delete the junk which accumulates in the OS and uses up storage space (without hard resetting the device), then I will stop considering the level of filesystem access a problem. Until then, "running flawless" is quite worthy of scorn indeed.
Wow, I seriously question your reading comprehension. I never mentioned Android in this point, or anywhere else (except to point out that it has a lot of homebrew). But, for your information, the default permissions / capabilities handling in Android is just as broken as in WP8. The difference is that with Android, it is possible (CyanogenMOD did this, for example) to install apps without actually granting them all the permissions they ask for. On WP7, this wasn't properly possible yet, but I was working on a system to do it that hooked the app install process and allowed people to uncheck app capabilities they didn't want to permit.
Um yes, I'd like to remove the non-functioning Samsung apps (until they are fixed) that are taking up space on my phone's storage and making the Settings list longer. I can always re-install them if needed. Every other carrier or OEM app is removable; why should these get special treatment just because they have a field in their app manifest that says "install me in the Settings hub"?
Multitasking - true multitasking, where multiple apps can run at once - is nigh-nonexistent on WP8. Aside from things like audio background agents and once-every-30-minutes-you-get-a-few-seconds-of-CPU-time scheduled tasks, there basically isn't any multitasking (of third-party apps) at all. Fast app switching is *not* multitasking; every app aside from the main one is suspended, unable to do amything until brought into the foreground.
Changing file associations obviusly isn't a deal-breaker, or I wouldn't be using the phone... but definitely a problem. Windows has offered the ability to control file associations since at least Win95, and I think it was possible in 3.1 as well...
Changing the default browser and email client and calendar and dialer aren't "theming" by any conventional definition, but the point made above about theming stands anyhow: it's a matter of personalization. It can also be a matter of functionality (for example, the built-in email client can't handle S/MIME encrypted email at all and has no PGP integration). Or a matter of usability (I use folders a lot; it's a pain needing to expand a menu to get to them)! Or something else... the important point is that it should be possible. Every OS comes with an email client, but every OS except iOS (and WP) allows you to change the default email client, too. This isn't even hard to implement (the relevant registry keys were present on WP7, at least; carrying over the API to control them wouldn't have been hard at all); it's once again a case of Microsoft intentionally restricting what you can do with your phone. If I wanted a mobile OS designed by a control freak, I'd buy an iPhone...
Nothing more really needs to be said here, except that with filesystem access (create a symlink or junction in the apps folder, for example) this would be possible...
Many BT profiles, such as HID devices (for mice and keyboards), are missing from WP8. So far as I know, apps can't use the Headset profile either; the pseudo-turn-by-turn navigation on WP7 would give its instructions via the car's BT if possible, but Nokia/Here Drive must use the phone's speakerphone speaker instead.
When I can change default browser and text editor, create my own themes, enable features that a ROM shipped disabled (have you seen the thread by the guy who can't get visual voicemail?), sideload high-privilege apps (without paying for the privilege), and remove root certificates of CAs that I don't trust (in WP7, these were stored in the registry), then I will stop considering the level of registry access to be a problem.
If they're from the store, they aren't really sideloaded, just downloaded on a different machine. I'm talking homebrew, stuff that the isn't yet, or never will be, or *can't* be (because it breaks some policy of Microsoft's, or requires high privileges to work) put in the store. Besides, many of the most popular WP8 models don't have an SD card slot at all.
GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only thing I can agree with you on is the file system, bluetooth, and not being able to override the default apps associations (seriously, the default apps is the most retarded idea ever).
Hello Guys,
before I start: My apologies for this, I am not quite sure if I am even in the right Topic.
I think of myself as pretty new to Android, but got some experiences in Rooting, Custom Roms and such. But that is already as far as it gets.
Now my Problem: We lost our BES and now my Company decided to go with Android (SG4 I9505) and I have to make it happen :angel:.
1. I Need some Kind of Freeware tool to administer Android Devices (Basic: find device, delete data, restrict Apps)
2. If something like this dont exist (which I dont think-I just havent found it)), I would Need to know if I can use CM 10.2 as our Standard Rom and before you start rolling your eyes with experimental and such....
I have to restrict the phone solely to Telefone, Exchange and some preselected (mostly travel)Tools. NO GAPPS!!! and I think that nightly CM provides this with no problems
To realize this I downloaded the nightly from 18th, I think. I then added some APK´s into \System\app Folder and installed the ROM. This actually worked fine until I updated to phone afterwards via build in updating tool - all Tools were gone.(what did I miss?)
Now, our Standard is SG4 I-9505.
Any ideas on how I could do this? (I couldnt find what I was looking for)
1. Adminster a fleet of androids (free)
2. Customize a Custom ROM for corporate Identity (How to pre-setup Exchange Boot Logo, Lockscreen, etc.)
3. or customize a ROM to the Point it cannot do much except what is in the \System\app Folder and turn off updates
Any link is much appreciated. Sadly there is sooooo much andoid articles out there that I seem to get lost while searching for the right one. Thanks in advance!!!!
AccEss-dEniEd said:
1. Adminster a fleet of androids (free)
2. Customize a Custom ROM for corporate Identity (How to pre-setup Exchange Boot Logo, Lockscreen, etc.)
3. or customize a ROM to the Point it cannot do much except what is in the \System\app Folder and turn off updates
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My guess is I'll get flamed for saying this - but here goes.
Android corporate (MDM) leaves a lot to be desired next to iOS, at least as far as I've been able to find. We manage a lot of iPads and obviously minus the custom ROM we've been able to do it all for little to no cost. We've shied away from Android a lot because of the limited MDM control.
But, since you asked:
1. Meraki Systems Manager (and the accompanying app from Google Play)
2. Good luck with that
3. See number 2
I think the reality is you're going to need to do something to the effect of either cook your own ROM and deploy it or use a tool like CWM to create an "image" that you would then restore to the devices. I did that with a batch of 60+ Nexus 7s and it worked out pretty well.
Edit:
With all that said - I would urge your management to reconsider their approach as the world has changed since Blackberry was the only game in town. Yes, still stick with MDM, device location, remote wipe etc. But unless you're dealing with highly sensitive information (exp banking), let people actually USE the device you're giving them. Don't lock it down to where its basically a first generation iPhone. I'm a big fan of giving someone a good tool and letting them use it the way that works best for them, while still keeping the device and more importantly the data under corporate control.
Assuming you have Exchange, does this not provide the management part?
AccEss-dEniEd said:
Hello Guys,
before I start: My apologies for this, I am not quite sure if I am even in the right Topic.
I think of myself as pretty new to Android, but got some experiences in Rooting, Custom Roms and such. But that is already as far as it gets.
Now my Problem: We lost our BES and now my Company decided to go with Android (SG4 I9505) and I have to make it happen :angel:.
1. I Need some Kind of Freeware tool to administer Android Devices (Basic: find device, delete data, restrict Apps)
2. If something like this dont exist (which I dont think-I just havent found it)), I would Need to know if I can use CM 10.2 as our Standard Rom and before you start rolling your eyes with experimental and such....
I have to restrict the phone solely to Telefone, Exchange and some preselected (mostly travel)Tools. NO GAPPS!!! and I think that nightly CM provides this with no problems
To realize this I downloaded the nightly from 18th, I think. I then added some APK´s into \System\app Folder and installed the ROM. This actually worked fine until I updated to phone afterwards via build in updating tool - all Tools were gone.(what did I miss?)
Now, our Standard is SG4 I-9505.
Any ideas on how I could do this? (I couldnt find what I was looking for)
1. Adminster a fleet of androids (free)
2. Customize a Custom ROM for corporate Identity (How to pre-setup Exchange Boot Logo, Lockscreen, etc.)
3. or customize a ROM to the Point it cannot do much except what is in the \System\app Folder and turn off updates
Any link is much appreciated. Sadly there is sooooo much andoid articles out there that I seem to get lost while searching for the right one. Thanks in advance!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I currently work in the infrastructure of a good sized corporation. We're using IOS with a mixture of android hardware and there's some good news and bad news for what you want to do.
Good news is, like Jpcurrie said, exchange will handle remote wiping and locking the phone down. you can require the phone to use a PIN, remote wipe and and a bit more. As for locating the phone, Google actually has finally built in remote locating of your device and remote wipe as well. There's a couple good apps out there (lookout) will turn on your GPS and allow you to locate the phone and they're free. If you happen to have a virtualized environment with VMware, you could also use VMware View Horizons which builds in a secure sector on the phone and you can remotely manage which apps and files the user can use. the best part of View is you can use a BYOD model and keep corporate data secure. The biggest issue is if you don't happen to already use a VMware architecture it gets pricey quickly.
Here's the rub now. you want to install your own logos on the bootup which you could do by installing a custom ROM. This will void your warranty on the hardware and as it isn't 100% stable you'll be spending a LOT of time trying to keep a consistent environment.
Like netsyd said, talk to management about an MDM, and the branding of the devices, maybe even talk to them about using a BYOD to reduce costs of hardware and administration of that hardware.
Isn´t Knox supposed to allow administrators to only delete the data that belongs to the Corporate account (emails, calendars, tasks, etc.), or an administrator can still force a full device wipe? Sorry if the questions is too basic, I've tried searching around for info on Knox but couldn't find anything besides press releases.
I'm not a network administrator, I'm just a user and my school secure wifi installs a device administrator.
I'm sorry to deviate the topic a little bit from the original.
At Delta we use Air Watch but it's far from free. You can however manage devices and remote wipe. You can also view installed apps and remove what should not be there. Options for device profiles also. I help maintain these devices everyday. Not Free but an MDM is your best bet.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda app-developers app
long time - no see
Hiya,
sorry I didn t answer - kinda was overwhelmed with this Task.
Wanted still to thank you: I did what you suggestet and wanted to let you know where I am now.
1. Meraki = implemented - now runnning 160+ devices. (at no costs)
2. CM12.1 implemented (without GAPPS/no SU)
3. Standard Image/w Apps defined. (Mostly Offline capable Tools like "here" etc.(which actually reduced costs))
4. Since Android has limited capability to be administered in a "real" professional Fashion we mitigated this issue by creating a policy to forbid the user to temper with the device (e.g. Installation of Software/SU etc) yet to allow the Installation of Software manually by us via creating a ticket. We check the Software mainly for "sanity" and malware and install it if ok.
This has been working so far like a charm for us. None of the user were happy to loose the Gapps obviously - but once they had their Software and settled in, all was ok. For the Administering part: Meraki can tell me if Software is beeing installed without our Knowledge, also we see if SM doesnt speak with us anymore. So, for now, we got the most out of the System and I am happy to say: I got minimal Control in a Quality sense. No no more "KO Critera" - and we have implemented Android. Tracking etc. is forbidden in Germany anyway - so we use Meraki mainly to wipe if lost and to check if someone goes against policy.
What is still open:
- I am still working on a way to have the user enter his credentials and automatically enter These in all respective config files. (haven't had much luck - with the absense of SU obviously.
- a Little cosmetics still open (I am still trying to figure out how the theming really works ... I usually f**k up the Pictures and sounds.... but so far making Progress
- with less and less good Android devices coming out (now, I am probably beeing flamed now ) that suits our needs (open bootloader, known/supported CPUs, removable battery, SD Card Slot) - I think we might Switch by Q4/2016.
netsyd said:
My guess is I'll get flamed for saying this - but here goes.
Android corporate (MDM) leaves a lot to be desired next to iOS, at least as far as I've been able to find. We manage a lot of iPads and obviously minus the custom ROM we've been able to do it all for little to no cost. We've shied away from Android a lot because of the limited MDM control.
But, since you asked:
1. Meraki Systems Manager (and the accompanying app from Google Play)
2. Good luck with that
3. See number 2
I think the reality is you're going to need to do something to the effect of either cook your own ROM and deploy it or use a tool like CWM to create an "image" that you would then restore to the devices. I did that with a batch of 60+ Nexus 7s and it worked out pretty well.
Edit:
With all that said - I would urge your management to reconsider their approach as the world has changed since Blackberry was the only game in town. Yes, still stick with MDM, device location, remote wipe etc. But unless you're dealing with highly sensitive information (exp banking), let people actually USE the device you're giving them. Don't lock it down to where its basically a first generation iPhone. I'm a big fan of giving someone a good tool and letting them use it the way that works best for them, while still keeping the device and more importantly the data under corporate control.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse