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Ok, I did originally post a thread in the Nexus 10 forum, as originally I was planning to upgrade to either a Nexus 10 or an iPad 4 (largely due to the high powered processors and the lovely high-def screens).
However, as one of the things I use my iPad for is drawing (mostly vector based at the moment) someone pointed out that the Note10.1 might be a better option.
The relatively low-resolution screen (barely more than my ipad1) put me off though... but seeing as I can pick up a Note10.1 for £268 at the moment.... this is in its favour.
And something else also grabbed me when I researched, and that is this video... (hope this link works)
edit: link didnt work, so I put this one up.
http://youtu.be/LZ3krff1JCE
The multi-window and dual-view things... which I *believe* is not in the standard android toolkit? Though originally I was happy with the android floating apps, like lilypad and stickit, for having videos floating over my work etc...
So basically, I had become intrigued by this tablet, and I wanted the thoughts of professional Note users like you guys!
my art style is shown here -- niiru.deviantart.com
in case that helps. All the newer stuff was done on a vector program on the iPad, the older stuff is sketchbook pro (also iPad).
Vector program means the S-Pen is not needed for me... though if it is good, it could help me to develop more techniques, which would be a good thing.
Things I'd like answers to:
- Is the screen any good? I know the resolution is low... if you dual-view two apps, do they become blurred? etc...
- Is is powerful enough to multi-task apps, or play high-spec stuff, without slowdown or lag? I need this to be fairly future-proofed if possible..
- Considering the main (if not only) reason to get this over a Nexus10 is the SPen... how good is it really?? I have heard that, due to some problems with interference in certain parts of the screen, it loses accuracy in certain places? Which would be pretty much terrible...
(link to this - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1970470)
Thanks guys, I hope you can convince me or if not, recommend either the Nexus or the iPad for me!! haha
28 pages of comparison to the N10. A lot focused on the display.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1952512
BarryH_GEG said:
28 pages of comparison to the N10. A lot focused on the display.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1952512
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Click to collapse
I did start reading this, though a lot of it did not seem to be related to what I needed (a lot of it is pre-nexus release anyway). I'm still reading through the last few pages though.
Seems like the screen being low resolution is not to bad a downside.. mainly due to the lower drag on processor power. However I would like to hear peoples opinions on wether dual-viewing items makes them blurry. I'm hoping not.
nirurin said:
I did start reading this, though a lot of it did not seem to be related to what I needed (a lot of it is pre-nexus release anyway). I'm still reading through the last few pages though.
Seems like the screen being low resolution is not to bad a downside.. mainly due to the lower drag on processor power. However I would like to hear peoples opinions on wether dual-viewing items makes them blurry. I'm hoping not.
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Click to collapse
This pretty much sums it up. For all but text and the UI the additional pixels won't make much of a difference. Most of the apps in multiview display the same size fonts and graphics only in 50% less space. The browser resizes text in multiview and a higher PPI display would definitely help. In everyday use the lower res display isn't a problem. But if it weren't for the S-Pen and the rest of the features Samsung's added which I personally get a lot of use out of I'd probably go with N10. If a FHD version of the Note comes out next year I'll definitely upgrade to it. Until then the other stuff means more to me than FHD.
When it comes to 1080p on a smartphone, he admits that it might not matter for the most casual users. "For some people, it is possible to tell the difference if we were to sit down and study a [1080p] display and a [720p] display, side-by-side," he said in a phone interview with Ars. "If you’re really a fanatic and you study images, or you have some professional applications and you’re really into displays, then it may make a visual difference for you."
For most people, though, it won't matter. Photos are inherently fuzzy, so it won’t matter whether they’re viewed on a 1920×1080 or 1280×720 smartphone display; you’ll still see their imperfections. "Even the tiniest image detail in a photograph is always spread over more than one pixel," Dr. Soneira explained in a follow-up e-mail. "The image detail is never perfectly aligned with the pixel structure of the display." Videos are even worse: not only are they fuzzy like photographs, but the pictures are constantly moving. Even if the images were sharp, the human brain couldn’t zero in on content that’s appearing for only a fraction of a second on such a small display. "For ordinary viewing of videos, 1920×1080 is really not going to make a visual difference," adds Dr. Soneira.
Where a 1080p smartphone display could really make an impact is with computer-generated content—that is, the user interface, buttons, and text. "Only computer-generated images make full use of the pixel resolution of the display," says Dr. Soneira. "For graphics and text, maybe you want that kind of sharpness." Like desktop computers, smartphone displays can also utilize sub-pixel rendering, which helps improve the visual sharpness of computer-generated graphics.
After about 15 inches, "the much higher 326 ppi is 'wasted' because the eye can't resolve sharpness above 229 ppi." The further away a person gets, the more gradual the reduction in perceived image sharpness.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/10/1080p-on-a-smartphone-screencan-it-possibly-matter/
Mind if I ask what "other stuff" you use from the samsung list? Dualview and multi-windows from the new update does seem very nice, what else is there that might tip my balance?
being able to get one for £270 is nice too, so if anyone knows of a recommended case too thats not too expensive?
nirurin said:
Mind if I ask what "other stuff" you use from the samsung list? Dualview and multi-windows from the new update does seem very nice, what else is there that might tip my balance?
being able to get one for £270 is nice too, so if anyone knows of a recommended case too thats not too expensive?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's the laundry lost of what the Note can do. What I find particularly useful is in red. People use their devices differently and may have different hot buttons.
- Multiview (enhanced in JB)
- Pop up play
- S-Pen/S-Note
- AllShare Play and Cast
- Enhanced camera features (smile/face/blink detection, buddy shot)
- Mini apps (enhanced in JB)
- Enhanced audio and video codec support
- IR port
- Browser h/w acceleration
- S-Voice (added in JB)
- Air View (added in JB)
- Group Cast (added in JB)
Video Air View – Preview videos without opening them. View future/past scenes in a playing video via the timeline without stopping it.
Photo Air View – Pictures contained in folders will display in thumbnails when you hover over the folder. They advance nine at a time.
E-Mail Air View – Hover the pen over a heading or contents of an e-mail summary (including via the widget) to see an exploded view of the contents without opening it.
S-Planner Air View – Hover the pen over an event or task to see an exploded view without opening it.
Pop Up Note – Tap the screen twice with the S-Pen button depressed and a pop up note will be displayed. Even on the lock screen when the device is locked. On the N8000, if you’re in a call and remove the S-Pen from its holder, a pop up note automatically opens.
Easy Clip – Capture anything on the display (lasso) anywhere and save it to the clipboard or send it an application (including S-Note).
Draw/Write on an e-mail – As it says.
Draw/Write in S-Planner – As it says (Month View only)
Color Picker – In S-Note, set the ink color to a color selected from a picture.
Pen Switch – Select multiple pen types (color, texture, weight) and toggle through them without opening the menu by pressing the button on the S-Pen once.
Sketch Affect – Change any picture to an outline, color sketch, pencil sketch and more from within S-Note.
Share S-Notes – Convert S-Notes to plain text, PDFs, or pictures and share them via Facebook etc. in one step.
Photo Note – Write personal notes on the back of photos
Gallery Organizer – Create folders and drag and drop pictures between them.[/INDENT]
Hmm... the multi-view stuff was a definite draw to me, and the mini-apps is interesting? I'll look into that one.
The ability to chuck down a pop-up note anywhere is also *very* interesting to me. I tend to use evernote for my small notes...
I believe that the multi-windows and dual-view is limited to only a few specific apps, is this still true with JB? (I did see a thread where someone had made a program to add multi-view to a lot of other .apks... which might be good as an alternative anyway)
At the moment, despite the screen resolution, the Note is edging ahead of the Nexus for me. The potential for the pen to make me improve my work is intriguing.
I'm going to check the accessories thread to find out about case recommendations etc
nirurin said:
I believe that the multi-windows and dual-view is limited to only a few specific apps, is this still true with JB?
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Click to collapse
Mini apps and multiview were merged in JB. Mini apps pre-JB were a bunch of utility apps like calculator, alarm, mini note, etc. To access them you'd hit the up carrot in the notification bar. They were fixed in size but could be moved and stacked across the screen.
Pre-JB multiview was limited to six apps and they were fixed in a 50/50 split.
Post-JB all the supported multivew apps are treated the same way. They can be viewed as "mini apps" floating on the screen (they're resizable now too) or can be viewed side-by-side the way they use to in "dual view." The split in dual view is changeable now by moving the dividing line between the two open apps left or right. The push pin allows you set one or more apps as always on top.
The apps supported in multiview are: stock e-mail client, messaging (N8000), phone (N8000), contacts, S-Planner, S-Note, stock browser, Polaris Office, Gallery, My Files, Music Player, stock video player, calculator, alarm, task manager, and world clock. As you noticed there's thread running on a tweak that enables third party apps to be added to multiview.
Another big benefit because of the inductive display is hover. As an example, you can hover the S-Pen over a menu and it'll drop down so you can make a selection. It allows you to use things like the browser the same way you would on a desktop PC.
I think the main thing you want to think about is how the stylus may help your sketching. If you've ever used a capacitive stylus (like the adonit jot), then think about that, and multiply the usefulness and ease by about 10. If you don't think the stylus will be any use to you, then I think you're probably better off looking at the Nexus 10 or iPad. Anyway, you ought to check out the thread on Note sketches before making a decision, it's like a couple threads down from this one.
BarryH_GEG said:
The apps supported in multiview are: stock e-mail client, messaging (N8000), phone (N8000), contacts, S-Planner, S-Note, stock browser, Polaris Office, Gallery, My Files, Music Player, stock video player, calculator, alarm, task manager, and world clock. As you noticed there's thread running on a tweak that enables third party apps to be added to multiview.
Another big benefit because of the inductive display is hover. As an example, you can hover the S-Pen over a menu and it'll drop down so you can make a selection. It allows you to use things like the browser the same way you would on a desktop PC.
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Click to collapse
Thankyou, I did know about the changes to the dual-view in JB (eg. resizing the width) but I didnt know about the multi-view stuff. I'm glad there are more apps now, though if the tweak I read about that adds multi-view to third party apps continues to work decently, that would be a really decent plus-point to this tablet Although obviously I wouldn't try and multi-view a highspec app like photoshop, it would be nice to be able to have my kindle app and a web browser open simultaneously sometimes.
And talking of browsers, the MAIN FLAW I always find with my iPad is that, on sites with drop-down lists, you cant hover over them to drop them, you have to click and load the next page instead. (deviantart has this for instance).
Being able to actually hover... this might well swing it for me haha
edit:
asdfuogh said:
I think the main thing you want to think about is how the stylus may help your sketching. If you've ever used a capacitive stylus (like the adonit jot), then think about that, and multiply the usefulness and ease by about 10. If you don't think the stylus will be any use to you, then I think you're probably better off looking at the Nexus 10 or iPad. Anyway, you ought to check out the thread on Note sketches before making a decision, it's like a couple threads down from this one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use a boxwave stylus when I draw on the ipad, never liked finger-drawing. it doesnt do any pressure sensitive stuff, I just preferred the pen feel.
http://www.boxwave.com/ipad-stylus/capacitive-ipad-stylus/bwpdd/tgz-tmmw/
Thats the kind of thing I had (mines a bit better but still). The rubbery tip was so much better than the solid flat plastic ones I have seen (much like I believe the Jot uses?) which just felt strange and clicked a lot. The other one I tried had a little blob of foam on the end, which just felt horrible.
I suppose really I should try the Note stylus before making my mind up, but I assume its a fairly typical inductive-screen stylus. Fine point, much like a wacom tablet one.
This reminds me... the nexus and ipad have gorrilla glass screens, I assume the Note doesnt though obviously.... does this mean I should get a screen protector? Will this effect the pen usage?
Ideally I would prefer to avoid a protector, and use a folio case instead (its what I did with my iPad, and the screen is still pristine after 2 years) but I'm not sure if the pen is likely to leave marks... I will have to search
It's simple.
If you honestly believe that having high resolution display makes ANY difference when it comes to drawing... or that your enjoyment of the tablet will be reduced for not having it - get an iPad or a Nexus 10. You'll be happier not knowing better and you'll save us tons of pointless discussion.
If, on the other hand, you put a "low resolution" screen next to an iPad 3 or 4 and notice that for most things - it's not really much of a difference - except maybe for small text - which isn't going to be the focus of your use anyway - then it's even simpler.
There is no other ARM tablet that uses a Wacom pen.
It's just that simple.
And if you're a digital artist - I don't even have to waste time explaining why having a Wacom pen blows away any sausage or capacitive disk pen on an iPad - regardless of resolution. The Note 10.1 is essentially a compact, portable Cintiq for 1/2 the price. No other argument should be necessary,
The pen has 1024 pressure levels. It works with *any* penenabled system pen (Samsung sells one for its Series 7 Slates, for example) giving you a full sized pen with an eraser - which works perfectly on the Note 10.1.
The only other question is: what software do you use to draw. And even that's simple: go to play.google.com and see if it's available - or if there's an equivalent that's close enough that you'll be ok with it.The Note comes with Photoshop Touch and Sketchbook Pro is available as well, but neither of these are vector drawing apps. The reality is, since the iPad is seen as an 'artists' tablet, you'll be waiting for the more esoteric art apps on the Note. For example: Colors doesn't exist on the Note yet.
And there you have it. I draw a lot on my Note. But I use it and a Samsung Series 7 Slate together. The Note is for sketching and details to a certain point - then I switch to the Slate for more complex effects and details that require more horsepower.
Finally - as I pointed out when I got an HP Slate 500 - a good artist isn't about his or her tools - it's about what they do with those tools. I know an artist on FA who draws on a Nintendo DS with 16 pressure levels using Colors.
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A NINTENDO DS.
WITH COLORS.
I hope that puts this entire silly discussion into perspective.
TheWerewolf said:
It's simple.
The only other question is: what software do you use to draw. And even that's simple: go to play.google.com and see if it's available - or if there's an equivalent that's close enough that you'll be ok with it.The Note comes with Photoshop Touch and Sketchbook Pro is available as well, but neither of these are vector drawing apps. The reality is, since the iPad is seen as an 'artists' tablet, you'll be waiting for the more esoteric art apps on the Note. For example: Colors doesn't exist on the Note yet.
And there you have it. I draw a lot on my Note. But I use it and a Samsung Series 7 Slate together. The Note is for sketching and details to a certain point - then I switch to the Slate for more complex effects and details that require more horsepower.
Finally - as I pointed out when I got an HP Slate 500 - a good artist isn't about his or her tools - it's about what they do with those tools. I know an artist on FA who draws on a Nintendo DS with 16 pressure levels using Colors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The vector app I researched into (on android) was one called Infinite Design. It seems to tick all the required boxes (pen tool, layers, impor/export .SVG files.)
Having the SPen will mean I can venture back into sketchbook as well though.
I'm going to go into town tomorrow and check out a Note, as it seems to be the best for what I need. Just got to find a decent case, and decide between white and grey...
[redacted]
Some cool ideas there. A few comments (posted here because I don't see a way to leave feedback on the site):
1) I'd put the Charms bar on press-and-hold of a button, probably Search (which doesn't currently have any Hold action assigned). Double-tapping is an action that literally nothing else on the Windows Phone OS uses, and especially a button that is sometimes capacitive and sometimes physical (depending on phone model) it's not something I advocate adding now. I like the idea a lot, though, especially for its tie-in with Win8. One thing to add to the Charms bar though: as on Win8 (where it shows a bunch of status info when you open Charms), the Status Bar at the top of the screen should be always visible when showing Charms.
2) There's already a way to get to the task switcher; while it's OK to have multiple methods for achieving the same goal, it seems like there might be something more useful to do than duplicating functionality through a more round-about approach.
3) There should be a more visible cue about the notifications center. Either have something drop down from the top (perhaps a "you have <X> notifications" bar with an appbar-like pull indicator?) or add a button specifically for notifications (two-level Charms bar? Move it to the right edge of the screen? Not sure how best to handle that).
4) I know the whole "swipe down to close an app" thing is very commonly requested, and comes from WebOS, and vaguely resembles Win8, and... I still don't know if I want it. Closing an app is pretty close to literally never needed; backgrounded apps are not generally allowed to use any system resources (they may hold onto some RAM, but the system will take it from them if a foreground app needs it). Closing an app the "usual" way - by switching to it if needed, and then tapping Back until it goes away - also works, although it's more actions. My biggest concern would be that right now, it's not really possible to ever do the wrong thing on the task switcher view. Closing an app, though, is a destructive behavior - you lose the app's current state - and is something that would need to be carefully implemented to make sure it never happens by accident... or perhaps make it optional entirely.
5) The Xbox Music feature looks pretty good, although the drop-down switch between Albums/Songs/Artists/etc. might be a bit too... background. Also, the really basic problems of the new UI - things like songs getting duplicated when they exist both on the phone/SD card and on the "Music Cloud" - really need to be addressed. Highlighting the Search thing - I know you mentioned it earlier with global search, but it's good to have more focused search capabilities too - as the current lack of Search in the music app is a Problem.
6) "Windows and Windows Phone share the same store" is way, way more complex than anybody might be realizing. Leaving aside the fact that most Windows Store apps aren't written for the resolution or aspect ratio of Windows Phone and would therefore possibly look kind of crappy if they were usable at all, and the fact that app models of the two OSes are pretty different (for example, Windows Store apps are allowed to request filesystem access and are required to implement the Settings charm, while WP apps have neither of those things), the APIs are just different. WP8 can use a sort-of-subset of WinRT (the API for Win8 apps) but it's not the same thing (and Win8 can't run WP7 apps at all, not even close). Finally, there's the issue that even the most powerful WP8 are half as powerful as even the lowest-end WRT tablets, and that's going to make a lot of things that perform fine on things like Surface RT be unacceptably slow on a Lumia 920 and impossible to run on anything with lower specs.
7) IE11 is coming for sure. The sync feature would definitely be nice. I'd also like to see some version of (desktop) IE's feed reader (shared with desktop Outlook) get integrated into WP8.
8) Integration with photo services, in the same way as other parts of the phone are integrated with Facebook and LinkedIn and Twitter and so on... that is an excellent idea. Come to think of it, Facebook pictures are already integrated (a feature I never really use) so adding others should definitely be possible. It would be cool if apps could integrate that kind of stuff without explicit OS support, but that may be aiming too high.
Thanks for the good feedback!
Hmmm, concept by who?
that'd be me.
The sync of bookmarks from Desktop IE to WP IE has already been confirmed for a future version of WP. They didn't say which one exactlly so it might take until WP Blue.
I personally don't like the idea of having the icons in the settings - at least not at the end, just looks kinda weird. Perhaps it would work better if you put them in front and aligned them properly on a grid.
Camera settings actually return back to the defaults when you relaunch the Camera App (and didn't save your changes as defaults).
As for the charms bar - I like the idea of a universal sharing and search feature but I don't particularily like the implementation of it with the charms bar on Win8 and I really don't see it work well on WP.
I like it but MS always let's its users down and dismisses the best ideas and concepts. WP will go now where higher that where it currently is now because of MS's ignorance. The next 2 updates for Luminas that includes the Amber and the GR2 or whatever its called don't really bring much to WP at all; who cares about another clock on the screen or data sense? Or more camera tricks...? Really now!!
@sinister1: Does that post really help? Come on, there's no value in just being negative everywhere.
Also, you call Microsoft "ignorant", but I guarantee that they know far, far more about the smartphone market than you do. If you want to be persuasive, you need to come up with arguments that have more substance to them than effectively just calling MS names.
@KlausWidraw: I think I'm with StevieBallz on the suggestion to have the Settings icons be left-aligned; they do make the items easier to identify, but having a consistent horizontal position to look for them at would help. That said, the ability to re-order the options would be huge; I use some all the time (like Cellular, which is annoyingly just off the bottom of my screen) and others not at all (like "lock screen", "tap+send", or "theme") once I've set them up initially, and would like them out of the way to make room for the options that I care about.
GDR2/Amber as well as GDR1 before it and GDR3 after it are mere maintenance releases. No one expects an Update from Android 4.2.0 to 4.2.1 or 4.2.2 to bring major new functionality. No one expects updates from iOS 6.0 to 6.1 to bring major new features. Somehow everyone (contrary to all reporting on those topics) expects those maintenance releases in WP to do just that. Really new functionality will only arrive with WP8.1/Blue and this has been known pretty much since the WP Blue name first appeared in leaks.
GDRs mainly serve the purpose of fixing some bugs and enabling new hardware functionality that is required for device launches. It has been the same with WP7. There were updates like Tango that served to enable LTE. GDR2 now mainly serves to enable the new capabilities that Nokia required for their Lumia 925 and Eos Camera phones and to keep Google Mail usable. GDR1 was mainly bugfixes, GDR3 will enable new hardware like even higher resolution screens.
Amber then is bundled with the GDR2 update rollout but IS NOT a WP update. It is a device specific capability update like we have seen them by all OEMs in the past.
If there are two things I would change about WP (from a user perspective) those are:
1) A clock tile that updates real time, like the HTC one (srsly want one).
2) Battery saver profiles that let me choose what i want to remain active (bluetooth, wifi, mobile data, background tasks)
That's about it.
From a developer point of view, things are very, very different xD
GoodDayToDie said:
@sinister1: Does that post really help? Come on, there's no value in just being negative everywhere.
Also, you call Microsoft "ignorant", but I guarantee that they know far, far more about the smartphone market than you do. If you want to be persuasive, you need to come up with arguments that have more substance to them than effectively just calling MS names.
@KlausWidraw: I think I'm with StevieBallz on the suggestion to have the Settings icons be left-aligned; they do make the items easier to identify, but having a consistent horizontal position to look for them at would help. That said, the ability to re-order the options would be huge; I use some all the time (like Cellular, which is annoyingly just off the bottom of my screen) and others not at all (like "lock screen", "tap+send", or "theme") once I've set them up initially, and would like them out of the way to make room for the options that I care about.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry for being so negative but this is really how I feel and what's wrong with that? I know that not everyone will agree with my views or me with views of others but my negative feed back is feed back just like positive feed back is also feed back. I'm pretty sure that you have your gripes with other things.
I'm just feed up that devs come up with some of the brightest ideas and MS simply ignores them. Tell me what is so hard for them to open the OS just a little more for people to be creative? Seriously? Now the truth is the best substance. And of course if you still don't agree with me that's okay; I won't hold it against you because those are your opinions and the way you feel. Please don't take any of my rants personal as all they are, my personal opinions.
sinister1 said:
I'm just feed up that devs come up with some of the brightest ideas and MS simply ignores them. Tell me what is so hard for them to open the OS just a little more for people to be creative? Seriously?
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I have to agree with you on this one. There are some understandable things for security's sake, but its ridiculous how complicated it is to customize Windows Phone 8 or even WP7. With WP7, you could only have a static lockscreen (ignoring LockWidgets from WPH) and couldn't set a custom text notification sound (besides MS' and HTC's.) I could add a custom ringtone, but it was a pain to do, period. With WP8, its a tad easier. You can just copy and paste ringtones, lock screens are customizable, and alarm can be customized as well, as well as the battery percentage can be pinned to the lockscreen/start screen. But compared to the other 3 platforms (Andriod, iOS, and now discontinued Symbian) could virtually anything could be changed. I remember when the 7.8 Beta was out and there were swapped fonts in the roms. Its something that no one had even thought about modifying until it was an issue.
I do have to say the native apps ability is appreciated, but it seems that Interop is still an issue (except I have no idea how problematic it still is). I do have to say I don't know much of whats been going on, due to jumping ship getting Verizon's Trophy late in the game (like when I first signed up here) and then finally moved to WP8 with their 928. So I'm kinda in the dark as to what has been added from the GDR1, Nokia's supposed Amber update, whats in GDR2, future FM support, ect. I really just wish that MS would be a little more verbal about whats in WP8's updates. They were bad with WP7 and they aren't any better now.
Another feature that MS is completely missing is Xbox Video. Seems stupid for them to say their experience is coherent between all their devices when its clearly not.
Can u guys tell me ....which phones will get windows 8.1 update .????
Sent from my HTC Explorer A310e using xda app-developers app
Some people don't like customization.
Customization comes with the cost of performance. I had an android with "customization" and whenever i "customized it" it became really, really, really slow.
In order to even have customization working, the system has to waist a lot of CPU cycles on stuff like checking 1000000000000000 settings to figure out what it should render next, swap a gazillion artifacts from storage to memory etc etc.
I want my phone to do what I tell it to do. I don't give a damn about more customization than it already has, and so are 99% of all windows phone users, whom increase in numbers day by day.
If you are going to give feedback disguised as QQ, then you should head over to microsoft's site and make your voice actually count. You complaining here all day, on a freeking developer/hacker forums, will not help!
Windows 8.1 blue will probably loosen up the developers a bit, if they are going to implement all our suggestions. Which will come for all windows phone 8 phones.
@mcosmin: The conecpt the you trade performance for customization really isn't true. Yes, the phone could eke out a trivial amount of better performance by hardcoding its UI styles, but they don't do that. Things like accent colors, background colors, text styles, etc. are all stored in the registry; you don't have to modify a single line of system code to modify or create themes of your own, and they'll run just as fast. Other forms of customization, such as replacing some of the builtin libraries with custom ones, might be slower in certain circumstances, but only if the custom library either added new features (not just new customizations, but actual functionality that wasn't present before) or is simply very poorly coded. The first of those is a tradeoff, the second is easily fixed if people just share their source code.
@sinister1: It's not that I don't agree with you - I do, in fact, and frequently quite vociferously - I just don't see what value you're adding to this conversation by proclaiming it. This thread is to discuss mockups of UI changes to WP8, not to complain about OS lockdown in WP8 and Microsoft's apparent unwillingness to implement some requested changes.
GoodDayToDie said:
@mscosmin: The conecpt the you trade performance for customization really isn't true. Yes, the phone could eke out a trivial amount of better performance by hardcoding its UI styles, but they don't do that. Things like accent colors, background colors, text styles, etc. are all stored in the registry; you don't have to modify a single line of system code to modify or create themes of your own, and they'll run just as fast. Other forms of customization, such as replacing some of the builtin libraries with custom ones, might be slower in certain circumstances, but only if the custom library either added new features (not just new customizations, but actual functionality that wasn't present before) or is simply very poorly coded. The first of those is a tradeoff, the second is easily fixed if people just share their source code.
@sinister1: It's not that I don't agree with you - I do, in fact, and frequently quite vociferously - I just don't see what value you're adding to this conversation by proclaiming it. This thread is to discuss mockups of UI changes to WP8, not to complain about OS lockdown in WP8 and Microsoft's apparent unwillingness to implement some requested changes.
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And how many people do you think will be able to do proper customization? Windows Phone shouldn't be Android with squares instead of rounded edge widgets.
And solid colors like the ones WP uses will always be faster than a image on the background, or some sort of gradients or whatever they they propose to have around the phone.
How many people will do "proper" customization? As many as want to. Who are you to say what is or is not "proper" for how I want my phone to look?
Of all the things wrong with Android (the battery drain due to background services not exiting automatically, the more stuttery UI on all but the highest-end phones due to poorer optimization, the ability for malicious apps to send premium SMS completely invisibly to the user, etc.) you choose to pick on the customizations? Nobody is suggesting that we want Android with WP-like tiles; in that case we would have bought Android phones and installed one of the several Metro-style home screen customizations. On the other hand, if I want a Windows Phone with "rounded edge widgets" and am willing to put in the effort to develop them, I see no reason I shouldn't be allowed to.
WP uses the graphics processor for its UI. Those "solid colors" are just textures like any other. A gradient, an image, a partially translucent image... they're all the same to the GPU. The performance cost would be unmeasurably small.
GoodDayToDie said:
How many people will do "proper" customization? As many as want to. Who are you to say what is or is not "proper" for how I want my phone to look?
Of all the things wrong with Android (the battery drain due to background services not exiting automatically, the more stuttery UI on all but the highest-end phones due to poorer optimization, the ability for malicious apps to send premium SMS completely invisibly to the user, etc.) you choose to pick on the customizations? Nobody is suggesting that we want Android with WP-like tiles; in that case we would have bought Android phones and installed one of the several Metro-style home screen customizations. On the other hand, if I want a Windows Phone with "rounded edge widgets" and am willing to put in the effort to develop them, I see no reason I shouldn't be allowed to.
WP uses the graphics processor for its UI. Those "solid colors" are just textures like any other. A gradient, an image, a partially translucent image... they're all the same to the GPU. The performance cost would be unmeasurably small.
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Click to collapse
It's not about the GPU.
It's about the CPU. The more complex the image is, the bigger the size, the more time wasted for CPU to process it.
Add to that the fact it needs to purge/load from memory several times a day (in the case of a background wallpaper for startscreen), and the performance loss and battery drain is suddenly no longer unmeasurably small.
You're talking about a difference of microseconds. Not milliseconds, microseconds. Several times a day. And telling me that this is *not* below the noise threshold of any measurement system we have today, never mind human perception?!?
Also, consider people who use apps (with their own tiles, not just system tiles that are mostly blank and therefore rendered as mostly a solid color) on their lock screen. You know, the whole "meet <person>" advertising campaign Microsoft has been running for this OS? Those app tiles take just as long for the CPU to decode and send the texture to the GPU as the customized tiles we're talking about here...
Except, customized tiles aren't even the point. If you don't want to customize your tiles because saving a few millionths of a second per day - a saving which will never amount to a whole second over your entire lifetime, much less that of the phone - you don't have to. The rest of us want features; customization is merely one of those features. It gets a lot of discussion because:
A) It's an obvious feature to have. MS advertises personalization. People like being able to change how things look, be it their clothing or their front yard or their Windows background. For some reason, though, they can't change their Windows Phone background.
B) It's really, really simple to implement. I mean, there are tons of third party apps, some rather sophisticated, to do this. Microsoft doesn't have to jump through the crazy hoops that we did, and they have the documentation on how the OS works as well.
c) It really does not affect performance. There's no cost. Look at the custom themes and custom system tray icons and so forth on WP7, and try telling me with a straight face the percentage by which it impacts performance to use them.
GoodDayToDie said:
You're talking about a difference of microseconds. Not milliseconds, microseconds. Several times a day. And telling me that this is *not* below the noise threshold of any measurement system we have today, never mind human perception?!?
Also, consider people who use apps (with their own tiles, not just system tiles that are mostly blank and therefore rendered as mostly a solid color) on their lock screen. You know, the whole "meet <person>" advertising campaign Microsoft has been running for this OS? Those app tiles take just as long for the CPU to decode and send the texture to the GPU as the customized tiles we're talking about here...
Except, customized tiles aren't even the point. If you don't want to customize your tiles because saving a few millionths of a second per day - a saving which will never amount to a whole second over your entire lifetime, much less that of the phone - you don't have to. The rest of us want features; customization is merely one of those features. It gets a lot of discussion because:
A) It's an obvious feature to have. MS advertises personalization. People like being able to change how things look, be it their clothing or their front yard or their Windows background. For some reason, though, they can't change their Windows Phone background.
B) It's really, really simple to implement. I mean, there are tons of third party apps, some rather sophisticated, to do this. Microsoft doesn't have to jump through the crazy hoops that we did, and they have the documentation on how the OS works as well.
c) It really does not affect performance. There's no cost. Look at the custom themes and custom system tray icons and so forth on WP7, and try telling me with a straight face the percentage by which it impacts performance to use them.
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Don't compare the WP7 theme mods and stuff like that which were made by hackers that knew what they were doing.
If Microsoft allows this officially on the marketplace, it will be flooded by poor apps.
Anyway, we seem to not be talking about the same thing. We should let it rest.
I've got a question for all you mobile developers. There are so many different mobile devices out there. What solutions, techniques or processes are you following or doing to make sure you have a high confidence that your app works on these different devices?
When building your apk , you check the versions you want to support, but there is always some limit, memory, screen size, etc.
http://developer.android.com/training/basics/supporting-devices/index.html
Thank for the link. I was wondering from an experience perspective, what elements are to look out for when testing from device to device (e.g. screen size, resolution, layout etc.)
jralabs said:
Thank for the link. I was wondering from an experience perspective, what elements are to look out for when testing from device to device (e.g. screen size, resolution, layout etc.)
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The main issues I've seen caused by fragmentation are (in no particular order): the assumption of a portrait screen orientation (i.e. that you won't wind up with apps running in/on devices with square or landscape default orientations), assumption of a certain phone speed/heap size (pretty obvious when lots of image/drawable processing is involved and an app runs badly on an early device), assumption of at least a certain number of dps from width/height (some layouts might have overlapping elements/hidden elements on phones that have a small physical area), using the "device default" themes (some manufacturers -- wrongfully -- change these themes to make OEM apps work better, but then mess up other apps that rely on these), and (this deserves its own special spot) Samsung compatibility quirks. At least in my experience, Samsung devices tend to way more issues with fragmentation as Samsung themes/tweaks Android so heavily it occasionally breaks expected Android behavior.
Can somebody pleasy help me out, I have just recieved my YP2 and I would really like to find a way to control the frequency of the flashing/full screen refresh on the e-ink display as you can do on most kindles. I would like to decrease this/make it as un-frequent as possible. I do understand it will cause ghosting issues.
All help will bbe greately appreciated
Help needed
there must be a simple way to disable the 'full screen refreash' on the EPD? I suffer from a very peculiar form of motion sickness when e-ink screens flash to black and thats why i couldnt use the early kindles.
If anybody can give me any guidance/advice in this regard it would be very helpfull.
Ive done al imited amount of playing about with linux based source codes and was able to fully disable the full screen refresh on my kindle when used as a vnc monitor. Can anybody tell me if this would be dont by playing around with the kernel source code for the yotaphone, or if there is an app that can do this function?
Regards
Things I can answer:
a - no such app exists yet (and given dev interest in this phone is minimal, by all appearances, it doesn't seem likely to be created. The phone is getting close to (if not already there) being low-spec comparatively, so further adoption of this phone by the masses seems unlikely. To me, that's a shame (I use a yp2 as a daily driver, but I keep other phones around as needed (for lte speed for video, proc intensive gaming, etc)))
b - while a sdk for the yp2 exists, it doesn't appear to address low-level epd function (which your request would seem to be). The kernel sources, at least of current date, have yet to be released; whether they ever will be is an open question. It's already difficult getting a large-scale manufacturer to release source, getting a small-scale shop like yota would be even harder for multiple reasons.
I'm sorry the epd in its current state isn't working for you; that's a shame.
(I was super excited by the project ara phone, since it seemed likely that someone would release an epd main screen at some point, so I could switch out between screens as the whim took me; the current plan for ara has dashed my hopes, c'est la vie. I still hold out hope for future epd-screened phones.)
staphoent said:
Can somebody pleasy help me out, I have just recieved my YP2 and I would really like to find a way to control the frequency of the flashing/full screen refresh on the e-ink display as you can do on most kindles. I would like to decrease this/make it as un-frequent as possible. I do understand it will cause ghosting issues.
All help will bbe greately appreciated
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's no setting for modifying the full screen flash frequency. However, the older Kitkat flashed only when the content of the entire screen changed. The periodical screen flashing was introduced in the Lollipop update. So if you think that would be of any help, you could try downgrading to some older Kitkat.
a- that is a shame as i love the non reflective aspect of the e-ink screen, and it functions quite well for browsing/reading (apart form the refresh for me)
b- where can i find the sdk for this phone?
What is the 'ara phone' you are reffering to?
shogzilla said:
Things I can answer:
a - no such app exists yet (and given dev interest in this phone is minimal, by all appearances, it doesn't seem likely to be created. The phone is getting close to (if not already there) being low-spec comparatively, so further adoption of this phone by the masses seems unlikely. To me, that's a shame (I use a yp2 as a daily driver, but I keep other phones around as needed (for lte speed for video, proc intensive gaming, etc)))
b - while a sdk for the yp2 exists, it doesn't appear to address low-level epd function (which your request would seem to be). The kernel sources, at least of current date, have yet to be released; whether they ever will be is an open question. It's already difficult getting a large-scale manufacturer to release source, getting a small-scale shop like yota would be even harder for multiple reasons.
I'm sorry the epd in its current state isn't working for you; that's a shame.
(I was super excited by the project ara phone, since it seemed likely that someone would release an epd main screen at some point, so I could switch out between screens as the whim took me; the current plan for ara has dashed my hopes, c'est la vie. I still hold out hope for future epd-screened phones.)
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Click to collapse
Thanks for the reply, was their a noticable difference between the frequency of the flash on kitkat and lollipop?
In order to change back to kitkat will it require me to root my YP2?
Regards
Jeopardy said:
There's no setting for modifying the full screen flash frequency. However, the older Kitkat flashed only when the content of the entire screen changed. The periodical screen flashing was introduced in the Lollipop update. So if you think that would be of any help, you could try downgrading to some older Kitkat.
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Click to collapse
staphoent said:
a- that is a shame as i love the non reflective aspect of the e-ink screen, and it functions quite well for browsing/reading (apart form the refresh for me)
b- where can i find the sdk for this phone?
What is the 'ara phone' you are reffering to?
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Click to collapse
sdk: on yota's website, developer section (search term: 'yotaphone 2 sdk')
ara: google project, currently specced for release q4 this year, iirc. (search term: 'project ara')
EPD flashing frequency
Hi, I have a similar motion sickness problem. I just got a YP2 and was wondering if you ever figured out how to change the refresh/flashing of the EPD?
Alexey Zakharchenko might help he has produced several apps on the play store
yotaclock+ has a epd screen refresh
contact via play store or [email protected]
hope this helps
anyone who did the nougat update, can you post some screenshots? i am debating whether to do the upgrade or leave well enough alone. one post mentioned that th recent apps window was sub-standard. any other good and bad?
mark2573 said:
anyone who did the nougat update, can you post some screenshots? i am debating whether to do the upgrade or leave well enough alone. one post mentioned that th recent apps window was sub-standard. any other good and bad?
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Yeah, I'm curious as well..i want to know if this update is going to be worth it
I did update to Nougat. My use is very limited but I find battery timing much improved and multi window is way better.
first of all - if you're satisfied with your device as it is don't update! It (unfortunately) doesn't get any better. They removed two important features - at least for me. There are no floating apps anymore - so if you want to use the small version of (for example) the google play music player while you're browsing you will have to use the splitscreen with dramatically decreased space for your browser left. So basically this means less convenience for you. The other thing is the (absolutely) useless "recent apps" view. In the past the whole screen was used by displaying the apps as tiles - now you only see them in the (for big tablet screens) useless card view.
Sorry - i always hate it when something really good just gets abandoned and replaced by something far inferior
I also found out, that manufacturers of 10"+ Tablets are encouraged to implement the native Android N freeform mode - so why has lenovo left this out of their update? I hope it gets back on the device with a later update.
P.S.: Android 7.0 CDD states that:
Device implementations with screen size xlarge SHOULD support freeform mode.
In the parlance of this CDD, there appear to be three levels of endorsement: SHOULD, STRONLY ENCOURAGED, and MUST. SHOULD is the weakest of the three, but it is still an endorsement.
NiffStipples said:
first of all - if you're satisfied with your device as it is don't update! It (unfortunately) doesn't get any better. They removed two important features - at least for me. There are no floating apps anymore - so if you want to use the small version of (for example) the google play music player while you're browsing you will have to use the splitscreen with dramatically decreased space for your browser left. So basically this means less convenience for you. The other thing is the (absolutely) useless "recent apps" view. In the past the whole screen was used by displaying the apps as tiles - now you only see them in the (for big tablet screens) useless card view.
Sorry - i always hate it when something really good just gets abandoned and replaced by something far inferior
I also found out, that manufacturers of 10"+ Tablets are encouraged to implement the native Android N freeform mode - so why has lenovo left this out of their update? I hope it gets back on the device with a later update.
P.S.: Android 7.0 CDD states that:
Device implementations with screen size xlarge SHOULD support freeform mode.
In the parlance of this CDD, there appear to be three levels of endorsement: SHOULD, STRONLY ENCOURAGED, and MUST. SHOULD is the weakest of the three, but it is still an endorsement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks buddy. I think I'm better off skipping this update.
Wrong, wrong, wrong
NiffStipples said:
first of all - if you're satisfied with your device as it is don't update! It (unfortunately) doesn't get any better. They removed two important features - at least for me. There are no floating apps anymore - so if you want to use the small version of (for example) the google play music player while you're browsing you will have to use the splitscreen with dramatically decreased space for your browser left. So basically this means less convenience for you. The other thing is the (absolutely) useless "recent apps" view. In the past the whole screen was used by displaying the apps as tiles - now you only see them in the (for big tablet screens) useless card view.
Sorry - i always hate it when something really good just gets abandoned and replaced by something far inferior
I also found out, that manufacturers of 10"+ Tablets are encouraged to implement the native Android N freeform mode - so why has lenovo left this out of their update? I hope it gets back on the device with a later update.
P.S.: Android 7.0 CDD states that:
Device implementations with screen size xlarge SHOULD support freeform mode.
In the parlance of this CDD, there appear to be three levels of endorsement: SHOULD, STRONLY ENCOURAGED, and MUST. SHOULD is the weakest of the three, but it is still an endorsement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all, updates are really important for android devices in general. And especially for manufacturers like Lenovo which is known to let their product outdated pretty early. Personally, I'm impressed this time they updated to Android N even before schedule, and I'm hoping they continue releasing updates not to let this amazing product die.
As for the features you talk about:
1) floating windows in freeform is natively supported in android N and just need to be enabled in developer options (one of the last entries under App category). You can install "Taskbar" app to launch all of your apps in window mode by using the native method, and resize them as you like by dragging on the bottom-right corner (which previously was not possible).
2) It is true that Task manager with tiles view was a more clean way to switch between apps on this device, but the needing of double-pressing the TAB button when alt-tabbing beween apps, always made it uneffective and uncomfortable to me. Now ALT-TAB switch between apps just flawlessly as in a standard computer. Hence, i'm really happy with that.
3) I find overall performance have gotten slightly better with the recent N update: i can notice that in the UI and in games too! other users on other threads are talking about a slightly better battery performance too, so it seems like they optimized the hardware support somehow.
morrolinux said:
First of all, updates are really important for android devices in general. And especially for manufacturers like Lenovo which is known to let their product outdated pretty early. Personally, I'm impressed this time they updated to Android N even before schedule, and I'm hoping they continue releasing updates not to let this amazing product die.
As for the features you talk about:
1) floating windows in freeform is natively supported in android N and just need to be enabled in developer options (one of the last entries under App category). You can install "Taskbar" app to launch all of your apps in window mode by using the native method, and resize them as you like by dragging on the bottom-right corner (which previously was not possible).
2) It is true that Task manager with tiles view was a more clean way to switch between apps on this device, but the needing of double-pressing the TAB button when alt-tabbing beween apps, always made it uneffective and uncomfortable to me. Now ALT-TAB switch between apps just flawlessly as in a standard computer. Hence, i'm really happy with that.
3) I find overall performance have gotten slightly better with the recent N update: i can notice that in the UI and in games too! other users on other threads are talking about a slightly better battery performance too, so it seems like they optimized the hardware support somehow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the suggestion of taskbar - i've already tried it before and imho it's just not that convenient as a rom included solution. Beside the fact that you would have to use an unnecessary extra app for a native android function, it's not really intuitive in it's handling - but i have to admit, that every user will see that different depending on their needs My question is just why lenovo hasn't implemented this standard feature in a neat and handy way?
Speaking of different user needs/requirements - i've personally never used the Alt-Tab combi on my tab. In my daily use i use it most of the time in tent mode without the keyboard.
As to the performance - i didn't really noticed a change here. But in my opinion it was already really snappy before the update so maybe i can't rate that improvement. Maybe the animations between app switches got nicer but it's possible that i deactivated them before the update by myself - so nevermind
Guys, can somebody upload Noughat update otapackage?
I do not have a device but i need this to borrow graphic drivers.
After update to Nougat, battery drain in idle status doesn`t happen anymore. After a day idle, it takes only like 1-2% of battery. At least it is worth to me.