Hello!
Let me begin by saying sorry for the monstrously long post - I honestly wanted to make it shorter but it got out of hand pretty quickly.
If you're like me, then the minute you've got your hands on the S III Mini you went to the Play Store to test some games, right?
If yes, then you may have noticed that some of them state that they aren't compatible with our devices... and, if you're like me, then you may have tried some "unofficial" sources for, oh let's say Gameloft goodies.
After installing, they either crash at startup, crash during or after the loading screen or, more interestingly, display white boxes instead of the actual textures (this was my experience with Nova 1, Hawx and a couple of others). In this thread I'll try to explain why. My sources are some wonderful threads here at XDA, but if I'm wrong in my assumptions then please correct me so that in the end, we can paint a more correct picture. Of course, some crashes and incompatibilities will be related to completely different things, but here's my take on it!
First of all, the chipset used in the Samsung I8190 is the NovaThor U8420 (a custom 8500 actually), which includes two Cortex-A9 CPU cores clocked at 1 GHz and a single-core GPU, the Mali 400MP. The Mali-400MP is a pretty old GPU (first launched in 2008), but a decent one nonetheless - it's actually on par with the Adreno 200 and 205 in some tests, but that's irrelevant.
Well, that's our culprit - because of the Mali GPU, a part of the games on the Play Store won't be available to us. That's because it's an older model, which only supports ETC compression for 3D textures and games usually rely on all manner of other formats nowadays. So, we go and torch ARM for their GPU, Ericsson for their chipset and Samsung for including it, right? Actually, no.
Here's where it gets interesting - ETC (Ericsson Texture Compression) is a free algorithm, a rather good one at that, but it doesn't support transparency in textures. Developers need to create a kind of "gradient mask" for transparencies (I believe it's similar to Photoshop), so instead of a one-step procedure, this needs two steps to perform. The other algorithms support compression of textures with transparency, so that's why we see white boxes in our games instead of actual textures - the Mali can't display them, so they all get changed to white "placeholders".
The thing is, the ETC format is the only standard accepted officially by OpenGL, so in the end, all the other formats are basically "wrong"! So, it's actually not Mali's fault, nor Ericsson's or Samsung's - it's the developer's fault that they use proprietary formats! Some users (that seemed to know what they were talking about) stated that the change to ETC format isn't that hard to perform and should take only a couple of hours to a resourceful dev.
Why aren't they doing this? Why isn't everyone using the accepted standard from the get-go? Because Nvidia, Imagination Technologies, Qualcomm and all the other GPU manufacturers want their products showcased and displayed in the spotlight. Tegra, PowerVR and Adreno each have to look like the best way to do 3D graphics, so the giant corporations behind them provide incentives, support and so on for their products, each trying to outdo the other's efforts. Thus, devs create a product (a game in this case) that is customized to run "best" on Tegra, or on Adreno or whatever - if it's an exclusive deal ("Tegra™-optimized", anyone?), even better!
This, in my opinion, is completely idiotic! Remember when in the '90 we had all those graphics card manufacturers? Remember how games ran only on Voodoo? Fortunately, the PC industry stabilized and we now have only the big two (Nvidia and Ati), but the idea resurged in the past couple of years on the mobile platform. It's also quite ridiculous, since we can't actually check and see if Game X performs better on Tegra or on Adreno, since it only works on one... so, how can we perform tests?
This is Android fragmentation at its ugliest! Take any modern PC game - no matter if it's "meant to be played on Nvidia" or whatever - you can still run and enjoy it on any graphics card, no matter the manufacturer. That's because of standardization! On the mobile platform, standardization of this sort isn't yet enforced, so in the end, we the customers have to suffer! So, if the game you bought isn't yet compatible with your device, go and yell at the devs - no, really! There's no excuse for using proprietary formats on a platform that boasts of its openness and customizability; there's no reason why we can't all benefit from GameX and there's no logic in denying paying customers of these experiences, all because of one more step in the compression procedure or some marketing hype! iPhone users can benefit from all games in the App Store because all of their devices use the same set of instructions and I'm pretty sure that we Android fans could as well!
So, in the end, Samsung and Mali actually did the right thing... It may not be regarded as such by us, who suffer in the end, but in the long run, enforcing the standard, officially recognized and supported method of compression is the right way to go. Seeing how Samsung sells millions of devices, I just hope that updates will start rolling for each app that presents me with a yellow bar under the Install button.
'Till then, we can only count on some brilliant guys here at XDA that can and do work hard on fixing things that should work correctly in the first place. Remember that I asked how we can perform tests if Game X doesn't run on both GPU Y and GPU Z? Well, one of the above guys is Chainfire of Windows Mobile 5, 6 and Android fame... with his 3D app installed, users reported that previously incompatible games were running perfectly on their devices, no matter if Tegra, Adreno or Mali was powering them. So, it doesn't matter which GPU is used, only the willingness to actually do it right that counts.
Here's to a more fun and usable Android!:highfive:
Note: I actually don't have any experience with developing games and the like, and all the info above is collected from threads here on XDA (especially those for Samsung Galaxy II) and googling everything I come across. I'm sure that the other methods of compression have their benefits and that at least some info above isn't 100% correct, but I still stand by my point. If you know more or want me to correct something then please leave your reply below and I'll see to it ASAP.
My phone runs H.A.W.X perfectly
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Mine plays it all .. even gta vice city
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Yes i play gta & new need for speed top grafik
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I talked with the Gameloft. They have plans for including the more games for the device.
I talked to them because out of 10 games that i bought only 1 works.
I might ask them for refund.
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ppero196 said:
I talked with the Gameloft. They have plans for including the more games for the device.
I talked to them because out of 10 games that i bought only 1 works.
I might ask them for refund.
Sent from my GT-I8190 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you write what games are not working?
Пратено со Tapatalk 2 од мојот SGSIII mini
Modern Combat 1,2,3,4
Dark Knight Rises
Asphalt 5,6
Nova 1,2
Adventures of TinTin
....
Others i forgot
I am talking about official sources (gameloft store and play store)
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stupid but doesn't galaxy s2 and s3 use mali 400 series if GPUs ? How are they different from Siii mini's ? - are they multi cored ones of same GPU or different entirely ?
They merely face the same problems...
_________________________
tapatalked from GalaxyS3
FadeFx said:
They merely face the same problems...
_________________________
tapatalked from GalaxyS3
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You mean even s3 faces such incompatibility issues but its a flagship right - sammy should have done something
Sent from a hybrid phablet !
nikufellow said:
You mean even s3 faces such incompatibility issues but its a flagship right - sammy should have done something
Sent from a hybrid phablet !
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i also dont understand this
the sIII is one of the best selling android phones, seems silly that the developers dont write for it
colonel said:
i also dont understand this
the sIII is one of the best selling android phones, seems silly that the developers dont write for it
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I've had no incompatibility issues on my Galaxy S3.. it doesn't seem right at all.
Will this run 9mm?
Related
I cannot understand why everyone is saying that hummingbird processor is better than snapdragon and that's why I started this thread.
I own an HD2 (snapdragon) and SGS (hummingbird).
I've run linpack and quadrant in both phones and here are the results showing that snapdragon is 4 to 5 times faster.
Hummingbird: linpack 13,864 quadrant CPU 1456
Snapdragon: linpack 63,122 quadrant CPU 4122
I'm only talking for the CPU cause if you go to 3D I'll agree that hummingbird is better (but I don't care about 3D cause I don't use my device for games)
Both phones have android 2,2 installed and I have voodoo lagfix installed in SGS
johcos said:
I cannot understand why everyone is saying that hummingbird processor is better than snapdragon and that's why I started this thread.
I own an HD2 (snapdragon) and SGS (hummingbird).
I've run linpack and quadrant in both phones and here are the results showing that snapdragon is 4 to 5 times faster.
Hummingbird: linpack 13,864 quadrant CPU 1456
Snapdragon: linpack 63,122 quadrant CPU 4122
I'm only talking for the CPU cause if you go to 3D I'll agree that hummingbird is better (but I don't care about 3D cause I don't use my device for games)
Both phones have android 2,2 installed and I have voodoo lagfix installed in SGS
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After looking into it for a while, I was focusing on what makes the Nexus One so much better than the other phones. On the chip level, I didn’t see it. Then it dawned on me to look at what Google had to say on the matter. Well, it was there in black and white. In their 20 May 2010 Developer’s Blog entry (http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/05/android-22-and-developers-goodies.html) they say that people could see a 2-5x speed increase. I think it is pointed out in an entry later in the blog dealing with NDK, which I initially missed: “ARM Advanced SIMD (a.k.a. NEON) instruction support The NEON instruction set extension can be used to perform scalar computations on integers and floating points. However, it is an optional CPU feature and will not be supported by all Android ARMv7-A based devices. The NDK includes a tiny library named “cpufeatures” that can be used by native code to test at runtime the features supported by the device’s target CPU.”
So, I guess this means that NEON is the difference. If your phone’s CPU has it and it’s enabled for JIT, you can expect higher Linpack numbers.
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http://www.greenecomputing.com/2010...ack-scores-so-mucher-higher-than-on-my-phone/
Now stop making topics like this.
the difference you notice is software related
If you want a real test, run a hd video on both phones, or a psx emulator and see if the nexus one is 5x faster... it is the same if not slower then the sgs
Well, SGS got hardware h264 decoding acceleration. Also, maybe you forget, but:
he Hummingbird comes with 32KB each of data and instruction caches, an L2 cache, the size of which can be customized, and an ARM® NEON™ multi-media extension.
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SAMSUNG and Intrinsity Jointly Develop the World's Fastest ARM® Cortex™-A8 Processor Based Mobile Core in 45 Nanometer Low Power Process
Advanced SIMD (NEON)
The Advanced SIMD extension, marketed as NEON technology, is a combined 64- and 128-bit single instruction multiple data (SIMD) instruction set that provides standardized acceleration for media and signal processing applications. NEON can execute MP3 audio decoding on CPUs running at 10 MHz and can run the GSM AMR (Adaptive Multi-Rate) speech codec at no more than 13 MHz. It features a comprehensive instruction set, separate register files and independent execution hardware. NEON supports 8-, 16-, 32- and 64-bit integer and single-precision (32-bit) floating-point data and operates in SIMD operations for handling audio and video processing as well as graphics and gaming processing. In NEON, the SIMD supports up to 16 operations at the same time. The NEON hardware shares the same floating-point registers as used in VFP.
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source: wiki
This means Hummingbirds are equipped with NEON. Why its not so effective/used in Quadrant/Linpack? My guess they (these benchmarks) are not compiled/optimised for Hummingbirds, just for Snapdragons.
I came from owning an iPhone and playing lots of games on it. I bought the SGS purely for the gaming performance of the Hummingbird processor.
Having seen the difference in game quality between the HTC Desire and the SGS, I know I made the right decision. Benchmarks don't mean anything.
As long as the device can run apps, games, multimedia smoothly, I dont care much about those benchmarkers, maybe they were designed and/or optimized for snapdragon prior to hummingbird.
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i bet you anything he actually doesn't have a sgs...lol
jealousy maybe just a troll, ignore
In terms of overall smoothness (everything, not just games) the SGS is vastly superior to any other android phone I've seen (Desire included).
Darkimmortal said:
everything
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Really? You have to go all out and use the word "everything" when the phone can get major lockups?
"most things" sounds like a more reasonable and believable choice of words...
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My friends I do own an SGS (not happy with it thought) and the tests that I posted were run from me.
I wasn't talking about the gaming performance (I know that SGS is the best out there)
This thread was started so that we can find an answer why is this happening?
I see some answers that cover it but I believe not completely because in everyday use of the phones I see that HD2 is snappier (not much but it is) than SGS (with lagfix).
The best test I believe would be to put the phones to encode something (like a video) but I don't know any software that could do that. (If anyone knows some please point them to me and I'll be happy to post the results here)
The tests you mention with psx and multimedia won't show as what we're looking because the SGS will clearly win because of the GPU.
johcos said:
My friends I do own an SGS (not happy with it thought) and the tests that I posted were run from me.
I wasn't talking about the gaming performance (I know that SGS is the best out there)
This thread was started so that we can find an answer why is this happening?
I see some answers that cover it but I believe not completely because in everyday use of the phones I see that HD2 is snappier (not much but it is) than SGS (with lagfix).
The best test I believe would be to put the phones to encode something (like a video) but I don't know any software that could do that. (If anyone knows some please point them to me and I'll be happy to post the results here)
The tests you mention with psx and multimedia won't show as what we're looking because the SGS will clearly win because of the GPU.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
man. if you are not happy, then i think you should sell it. no one here will give you a satisfying answer that warm your heart. look for desire hd or something.
to answer ur questions. i get a 2100+ on quadrant. using voodoo fix and oclf on my eclaire. lag free and smooth as butter.
but either way, these test scores mean nothing. they were not designed for samusng hardware. it was designed based on htc and the snapdragon processor.
even people who use neocore for gpu are wrong. if you wana test the gpu performance, use nenamark1. the sgs gives u 49+ fps while the desire HD struggle to give u 35. while if you use neocore. the sgs gives u 56 while desire hd 58
my point is most of those software were designed with htc hardware in mind. so you cant really compare them.
just test your device for your self. apply whatever best roms you find here. if it doesnt lag and smooth for you. then ^^^^ everyone else.
the display alone is worth keepin the sgs for me. sure people might like i phone 4 display more. but nothing in my eyes come close to the contrast and colors of the super amoled. watching a movie or playing a game is a joy in this device.
hell yesterday evening a local htc store had a demo of desire hd. and the guy was nice enough to me play with it for like 1 hour.
device as a hardware look. its friggin sexy as hell. screen ? beauitful large 4.3 screen. quality colors compared to sgs ? fail. a lil slow and laggy " i am sure its because of the firmware. once roms are out, it will be faster "
i was thinking to change to desire hd honestly. but i wake away from the store kissing my sgs.
i love the desire hf look and feel. but as of now its not as smooth as my sgs. and the screen isnt as vibrant.
Psx emulator does not use the gpu...yet
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android53 said:
Psx emulator does not use the gpu...yet
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this. i played king of fighters on my hd2 and it was laggy as hell
smooth as butter on my galaxy s
to be honest. the day psx4droid use gpu. galaxy owners are in heaven.
Its unlikely it ever will though, even modern pc emulators barely use the gpu, only for anti aliasing
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johcos said:
My friends I do own an SGS (not happy with it thought) and the tests that I posted were run from me.
I wasn't talking about the gaming performance (I know that SGS is the best out there)
This thread was started so that we can find an answer why is this happening?
I see some answers that cover it but I believe not completely because in everyday use of the phones I see that HD2 is snappier (not much but it is) than SGS (with lagfix).
The best test I believe would be to put the phones to encode something (like a video) but I don't know any software that could do that. (If anyone knows some please point them to me and I'll be happy to post the results here)
The tests you mention with psx and multimedia won't show as what we're looking because the SGS will clearly win because of the GPU.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why in hell woul you want to incodea video using a smartPHONE...?
It's like trying to fit your family and grocery in a sport car... not made for this bro!
stop trying to find reason to "not like" the SGS, if you don't like it, sell it and be done...
Snapdragon/Hummingbird scores in glbenchmark (nexus one/galaxy s):
integer: 20661/27624
float: 11173/7968
I guess glbenchmark uses native C code (hopefully with armv7 optimization), so the JIT compiler has no effect. From the scores it seems that the floating point unit in Snapdragon is faster - but most of the time it is not used (except video & games).
Anyway, a benchmark to measure the same algorithm in both native & java code with scalar & vector instructions would be great...
t1mman said:
Why in hell woul you want to incodea video using a smartPHONE...?
It's like trying to fit your family and grocery in a sport car... not made for this bro!
stop trying to find reason to "not like" the SGS, if you don't like it, sell it and be done...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
he's not whining, well, not in the first place and i don't see any harm on that i think he's trying to UNDERSTAND reasons behind numbers and daily use with help of other people, so am i. if i had to sell phones for every problem i encounter i will problaby be without (smart)phone at this time
i don't care about benchmarks, but if you think that sgs is smoother than hd2 xda optimized (with wm 6.5 or android 2.2) you obviously never owned an hd2 i'm not talking about games, like johcos says galaxy s performance is not questionable. but android is not all about game. anyway, i don't think hardware is the problem here, sure sgs is superior in many aspects, we know that, regardless benchmarks (even if it seems here that only benchmarks where sgs win are trustworthy, others are not good, not optimized, not realistic, meaningless for real life performance etc.). with a little help from samsung and this community sgs will soon outperform (in real usage) all snapdragon phones. i hope
...when average men talk about the high tech w/o knowledge, boo
ll_l_x_l_ll said:
man. if you are not happy, then i think you should sell it. no one here will give you a satisfying answer that warm your heart. look for desire hd or something.
to answer ur questions. i get a 2100+ on quadrant. using voodoo fix and oclf on my eclaire. lag free and smooth as butter.
but either way, these test scores mean nothing. they were not designed for samusng hardware. it was designed based on htc and the snapdragon processor.
even people who use neocore for gpu are wrong. if you wana test the gpu performance, use nenamark1. the sgs gives u 49+ fps while the desire HD struggle to give u 35. while if you use neocore. the sgs gives u 56 while desire hd 58
my point is most of those software were designed with htc hardware in mind. so you cant really compare them.
just test your device for your self. apply whatever best roms you find here. if it doesnt lag and smooth for you. then ^^^^ everyone else.
the display alone is worth keepin the sgs for me. sure people might like i phone 4 display more. but nothing in my eyes come close to the contrast and colors of the super amoled. watching a movie or playing a game is a joy in this device.
hell yesterday evening a local htc store had a demo of desire hd. and the guy was nice enough to me play with it for like 1 hour.
device as a hardware look. its friggin sexy as hell. screen ? beauitful large 4.3 screen. quality colors compared to sgs ? fail. a lil slow and laggy " i am sure its because of the firmware. once roms are out, it will be faster "
i was thinking to change to desire hd honestly. but i wake away from the store kissing my sgs.
i love the desire hf look and feel. but as of now its not as smooth as my sgs. and the screen isnt as vibrant.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly couldn't agree anymore, even with all the problems the SGS has. The screen+hardware combination is just too overwhelming for me to swap the phone for something else.
The Tegra2 version is confirmed now.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/03/confirmed-tegra-2-equipped-samsung-galaxy-s-ii-is-coming/
So what do you think - which version will be better and which will you get?
I know the benchmarks so far are speaking for Tegra 2 but is this true?
Tegra 2 version will have more compatibility with other tegra 2 devices, so it's possible to get new versions of CyanogenMod quickly. Exynos is unique though, makes you feel special knowing that you're using something different.
ryude said:
Tegra 2 version will have more compatibility with other tegra 2 devices, so it's possible to get new versions of CyanogenMod quickly. Exynos is unique though, makes you feel special knowing that you're using something different.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Makes sense.. I just wonder if Tegra 2 will be performing better than Exynos.
I've already reordered a version with Exynos but I might cancel it...
So I guess we will also need a new dev forum for the new version as ROMs wouldn't be compatible? :/
How will the average consumer know the difference when buying the hand set, will out be clearly stated on the box?
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masumali said:
How will the average consumer know the differegnce when buying the hand set, will out be clearly stated on the box?
g
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Probably going to be region-dependant on whether you get the exynos or tegra 2. The biggest gripe I have with the tegra 2 is that it doesn't support h264 high-profile encodes. I'll probably get the exynos version if possible.
I read Exynos is for US and UK. The rest getting Tegra 2.
Not sure how true that is though?
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Everything I read points to USA and UK getting exynos with everywhere else getting tegra 2.
ryude said:
Everything I read points to USA and UK getting exynos with everywhere else getting tegra 2.
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Is that just people guessing or is there any info from Samsung ?
GT-I9100, which is the Exynos model, is the version that is mentioned on Samsungs swedish site.
So that indicates the info may be wrong.
erahk64 said:
Is that just people guessing or is there any info from Samsung ?
GT-I9100, which is the Exynos model, is listed on Samsungs swedish site.
So that indicates the info may be wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also preordered a I9100 in Switzerland.. so this means nothing.
I think Tegra 2 will come after all Exynos are shipped.
I dont really care what version i get. The only advantage is see is there will be more games optimized for tegra2. Thought i dont really care about that. I wont be playing those games anyway. I like casual games more, like angry birds or cut the ropes and similar games.
Btw preordered at amazon germany.
It seems that Samsung will be unable to provide enough Exynos chips for all. I also heard that they are planning to use the exynos for the new iphone 5.
Nobody knows witch one of the chipsets is the best. There are still no test results... Beacause there is no phone running exynos on the market. We have to wait to see witch one is better.
which is more power efficient? thats the biggest decider for me.
masumali said:
How will the average consumer know the difference when buying the hand set, will out be clearly stated on the box?
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
One is called i9100 and the other i9103 .
Latest rumors say both versions might come under the same version name.
Will Tegra2 games run on Exynos?
http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/03/samsungs-exynos-4210-flexes-3d-gaming-muscle-at-gdc-2011-video/
Not sure whether that should make me feel impressed or not. The wait continues...
Another fun one. The peeps said they had it since August of last year. It is running a 1366x768 display, if that means anything for benchmarks.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/07/odroid-a-tablet-fits-1366-x-768-res-on-a-10-inch-screen-dual-co/
CowMix said:
which is more power efficient? thats the biggest decider for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Androidandme released an article this morning on this.
One of the replies made by 'Magnet Man' read as follows:-
The Mali 400 MP wipes the floor with the GeforceULV found in the Tegra 250. It has a superior fill rate, superior sustained geometry, and tile-based rendering, meaning that it will generally perform better and require less bandwidth for scenes with frequent overdraw. Interestingly it does this at a lower clock rate!
The benchmarks displayed are weak indications of actual performance for T20 or Mali 400MP. They don’t take into account shader performance or HD targets.
From what I can see Exynos has 3 advantages over Tegra 2.
Fully pipelined NEON MPE (vs non-vector floating point unit in Tegra 2)
From early tests the ISP and vid encode/decode look better.
I think it has a dual-channel LPDDR2 memory controller too?
Tegra 2 advantages.
Flash GPU acceleration.
Honeycomb and game support.
sarge78 said:
From what I can see Exynos has 3 advantages over Tegra 2.
Fully pipelined NEON MPE (vs non-vector floating point unit in Tegra 2)
From early tests the ISP and vid encode/decode look better.
I think it has a dual-channel LPDDR2 memory controller too?
Tegra 2 advantages.
Flash GPU acceleration.
Honeycomb and game support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have link to reliable source about the Flash GPU acceleration ?
I thought most GPU's could be used for video acceleration, is this a specific
accelerator for flash ?
Exynos could have a faster GPU if the info at the Samsung Barcelona press conference is true (5 times more powerful GPU than the previous application processor).
That will be revealed when SW/drivers are finished.
Exynos/Orion supports DDR2 and DDR3 RAM according to the blockdiagram in the link.
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/support/brochures/downloads/systemlsi/Orion.pdf
Hi,
One thing I havent seen many people talk about is the fact that S3/2 and the Note lack the Tegra SoC. I Kknow Samsung likes to use their own Exynos, but sometimes I hate the fact that I cant run those THD games which admittedly many are quality games. And.in some cases like Riptide and Shadowgun you do get some extra eye-candy over the regular versions. This is one area were the HTC One X wins I think....the ability to play those high quality THD versions of the game. Im also sure you can root and use chainfire, but sometimes I wish the galaxy line would use the Tegra 3 and have the widest game compatibility. For me this is the biggest downside to what for me is.the perfect phone.
Anyone feel the same?
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
I hear ya!!!
I really miss my Tegra goodness...
Many will say that by using this or using that you can make Tegra games run on non-tegra devices, and that's partially true, however true Tegra graphics are much better...
There are many shader effects missing on those non-tegra devices.
I would really love to see a Tegra based Note (even though I know that would never happen)...
Samsung does use tegra, i had a galaxy tab 10.1 and it ran like dog ****
bamboo12 said:
Samsung does use tegra, i had a galaxy tab 10.1 and it ran like dog ****
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Click to collapse
Like most tegra 2 devices. I've used moto atrix, lg g2x, acer/toshiba tablets.
They just helping wuth androids biggest problem, fragmentation. This isnt a samsung processor issue, this is up to the developer. Think 360 vs ps3.
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Tegra processors are usually on the low-end of available options.
Eg/
SGS: Exynos 3110 = 170
Droid2 : OMAP 3630 = 160
NexusOne: QSD 8250 = 130
HTC prototype: Tegra APX 650 = 100
SGS 2: Exynos 4210 = 140
Sensation XL: QSD 8255= 130
Optimus 3D: OMAP 4330 = 120
Atrix 4G: Tegra2 = 100
SGS 3: Exynos 4412 = 130
*OMAP Skipped Generation* = N/A
Optimus 4X: Tegra3 = 110
OneS: Krait S4-dual = 100
By having early and direct access to their own manufacturing facility, Samsung can develop chips that are slightly faster than the competition and produce them at lower costs.
Apple tends to strongarm the market with early business deals and access to manufacturing facilities too, though not on Samsung's scale. Fortunately for Apple, they don't need the fastest, they need "good enough" at the cheapest price. Since iOS will run faster than Android, due to better and direct optimizations, Apple's offerings can consequently be even faster than Samsung's.
Say all you want about Tegra being on the low-end side, but when it comes to gaming graphics they simply blow the competition out of the water!
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Rayan said:
Say all you want about Tegra being on the low-end side, but when it comes to gaming graphics they simply blow the competition out of the water!
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I have not seen a side by side comparison but apart from the graphics, how many tegra games are really compelling? I have not seen a tegra game that made me wish i had a tegra device.
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I prefer Mali. So no.
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Rayan said:
Say all you want about Tegra being on the low-end side, but when it comes to gaming graphics they simply blow the competition out of the water!
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Click to collapse
When it comes to the GPU, Nvidia are using competitive offerings.
For instance, the one in Tegra 1 (APX 650) was top-tier in its era, but not the best.
This is forgivable as they were new to the mobile market.
With the Tegra2, nVidia did offer a great chip.
It was about on-par/higher than the SGX540... but it was surpassed with the new drivers and higher clocked SGX540 from OMAP4470. And not to mention the quadcore Mali-400 (SGS2) that embarassed it.
With the Tegra3, there's nothing new.
They offer a gpu that was better than their competitors, but the competitors are rolling out their new gpu. Qualcomm with their new Adreno. Samsung with the T604. Omap with the SGX544mp4. In fact the new A5X gpu is superior to the Tegra3 gpu. Don't forget about the PS Vita either.
here's an interesting article: http://blog.laptopmag.com/tablet-chip-showdown-nvidia-tegra-3-vs-the-new-ipads-a5x
Soon, Tegra3 will be a "mid-entry" SoC, or even a "low-mid" one.
The only advantage the Tegra chips have is the TegraZone. Deeper integration of the software to the gpu, that's how nVidia levels the field.
So you are in fact incorrect. They don't blow the competition out of the water!
They fragment the competition, which I believe is wrong. I think that either nVidia must try harder (they're a friggin graphics company!!!) or that the TegraZone enhancements should be in the AOSP and give all competitors a chance to provide the best software (drivers producing, kernels processing, roms consuming) for their hardware.
With greater competition, the consumers win.
I'd rather have the better Exynos processor than some crappy Tegra games which I might show off once and then never play again...
pboesboes said:
I'd rather have the better Exynos processor than some crappy Tegra games which I might show off once and then never play again...
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Click to collapse
+1,000,000 to this!
Tegra - no thank you!
bamboo12 said:
Samsung does use tegra, i had a galaxy tab 10.1 and it ran like dog ****
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Click to collapse
That was Tegra 2. Tegra 3 on the HtC one x and Asus transformer prime flies.
So the myth that Tegra is slow has been shown by Tegra 3
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violentgoomba said:
I have not seen a side by side comparison but apart from the graphics, how many tegra games are really compelling? I have not seen a tegra game that made me wish i had a tegra device.
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Riptide GP...Samurai 2 THD, Shadowgun Tegra 3, Fruit Ninja THD, Bang bang racing Thd...i think are pretty good titles and offrr significant enhancements over the non thd versions.
I love my Note...but I do have to admit that a One X with the Tegra 3 has more game support and is faster.
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nvidia is a GFX Company. They'll pay for people develop stuff for their products.
Tegra 3 is inferior to the Mali 400 MP. Ask the developer to make a version of their game using all Mali 400MP Features.
Blame the developer not the GPU itself.
blue13x said:
Hi,
One thing I havent seen many people talk about is the fact that S3/2 and the Note lack the Tegra SoC. I Kknow Samsung likes to use their own Exynos, but sometimes I hate the fact that I cant run those THD games which admittedly many are quality games. And.in some cases like Riptide and Shadowgun you do get some extra eye-candy over the regular versions. This is one area were the HTC One X wins I think....the ability to play those high quality THD versions of the game. Im also sure you can root and use chainfire, but sometimes I wish the galaxy line would use the Tegra 3 and have the widest game compatibility. For me this is the biggest downside to what for me is.the perfect phone.
Anyone feel the same?
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A few Samsungs run Tegras - they have piss poor performance, abysmal video decoding capability, etc. See Tab 10.1 as an example - the tegra2 in that is a POS compared to Exynos4.
NVidia is always first to up the core count but always delivers poor performance per core.
Similarly, the Exynos 4412 smokes the Tegra 3 when total system performance is taken into account.
It's kind of odd that the SoC that comes from a company whose specialty is GPUs is the worst in terms of 2D video performance (codec support) and average at best for 3D.
On top of that they use some funky texture compression format not compatible with anything else unless you use Chainfire 3D.
mdrjr said:
Tegra 3 is inferior to the Mali 400 MP. Ask the developer to make a version of their game using all Mali 400MP Features.
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Click to collapse
No. The gpu in the Tegra 3 is slightly superior to the quadcore Mali-400, not a huge stretch.
But each "generation" nVidia have been the the inferior products, especially in the graphics components (irony?). However, they offset this because they're first to market.
mdrjr said:
Blame the developer not the GPU itself.
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Click to collapse
That's exactly right.
Its about the entire offering software AND hardware optimization, not one without the other.
I rather have a 1GB RAM and Tegra2 rather than 2GB RAM and Exynos 4410... just as long as the software is optimized (for instance, lower-level API support using Qt and Mainline Linux.... compared to higher-order virtual engine running on a inferior kernel).
I think your arguments are all invalid. Especially on this forum.
Just install chainfire 3d pro and you can run all those THD games flawlessly and in real world performance mali blows tegra out of the sky.
tegra gets no love nowadays
Darfus said:
I think your arguments are all invalid. Especially on this forum.
Just install chainfire 3d pro and you can run all those THD games flawlessly and in real world performance mali blows tegra out of the sky.
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Click to collapse
Even though Chainfire allow us to run Tegra games, it does not do a good job emulating the shader effects present in the actual games. Games look flat and dull compared to the original.
Cheers!
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Rayan said:
Even though Chainfire allow us to run Tegra games, it does not do a good job emulating the shader effects present in the actual games. Games look flat and dull compared to the original.
Cheers!
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Plus it requires rooting. I prefer the support right out of the box.
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has game developers forgotten about tegra 2 and just moved onto tegra 3 i mean i see alot of awesome games coming out such as Horn or the new game coming out Wild blood which is supposed to boast the unreal engine or even bladeslinger but all run on tegra 3 , i mean if i can run Dead trigger highest graphics under clocked with no lag then why move on? even Max Payne mobile highest graphics and under clocked runs fine. is it just devs wanting to work on tegra 3 for the consumer market in it or is tegra 2 just that old?
Yeah it doesn't make sense I'm sure these high end apps could have somethings set up just to scale down settings depending on hardware of the device. Kinda like PC games do which will try to match the best settings for the hardware (which usually is OK)
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BrianDigital said:
Yeah it doesn't make sense I'm sure these high end apps could have somethings set up just to scale down settings depending on hardware of the device. Kinda like PC games do which will try to match the best settings for the hardware (which usually is OK)
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yeah kinda sucks hopefully theyll comeback to it or remake a tegra 2 enhanced version
BrianDigital said:
Yeah it doesn't make sense I'm sure these high end apps could have somethings set up just to scale down settings depending on hardware of the device. Kinda like PC games do which will try to match the best settings for the hardware (which usually is OK)
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yeah i think that also like we THD games for tegra hd, im assuming soon there will be THD versions of the tegra 3 games
chismay said:
yeah i think that also like we THD games for tegra hd, im assuming soon there will be THD versions of the tegra 3 games
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Click to collapse
yeah i guess its just time to upgrade :/ im going with an actual cmputer tab 320 gig harddrive 2.2ghz win7 winpad i think unless i can find a better one i can use for work :/
Maybe all those Tegra 3 only titles are sponsored by Nvidia and Nvidia wants them to be T3 exclusive to attract more tablet/phone buyers. But they showed with Tegra 2 how much they care about the hardware they already sold (we are not even clients to them as we ONLY buy end products with Nvidia hardware).
I think the same will happen when Nvidia presents T3 successor in the future. All THD titles will be made for this next chip and T3 will be forgotten as T2 is now.
I think that developers' decision to support T3 exclusivelly in their titles is Nvidia's doing because developers are actually shrinking their potential customer base (how many T2 tab users is out there comparing to T3 user base). WIthout money from Nv I don't think any developer would do that unless they need so much processing power that T2 is not capable of delivering any more. And @gears177 gave 2 examples that T2 is still capable of running good 3d games even underclocked. T3 is just overkill for most titles.
So, here is the thing.
The only thread i saw about Games on S III is one from whic games work on LIB FW. Maybe i didn't search enough but it seems there isn't an "actual one" so i'd like to know which games are natively compatible and which others you can make compatible like for example editing build.prop and change device, model, name and brand.
Did this in my Motorola RAZR and chage it to Galaxy Nexus, i couldn't get NFS Hot Pursuit, Modern Combat 2 and 9mm to work, so did that and then installed SD DATA through the game, and all went well, fully working games. But now with S III i can't get 9mm to work and with CyanogenMOD9 i can't get Modern Combat 3 to be compatible trough Play Store when in Sammy's ROM it was compatible.
Then i edited build.prop to be a Galaxy Nexus, installed them, downloaded DATA for 9mm being a GNexus (can't being S III) and tried to play it, but the game it's about to start, no FC, no error, but game just closes itself and system goes to homescreen, game is open in background but it kept doing the same thing. Diferent from Modern Combat 3 that works fine.
I think it's obviously 'cause i downloaded DATA being a GNexus but how can i download compatible SD DATA for S III and play it???
So, i wanna know if there is a way for make this work and i'm leaving games that i have that works well with CyanogenMOD 9 so we can make a list perhaps.
Games:
· Modern Combat 3
· Modern Combat 2
· Asphalt 6
· ShadowGun
· Need For Speed : Hot Pursuit
And then i got all of the Humble Bundle games for Android :
· Anomaly
· BIT.TRIP BEAT
· Canabalt
· Cogs
· EDGE
· Fieldrunners
· Osmos
· Smuggle Truck
· Snuggle Truck
· Spirits
· Swords & Soldiers
· Toki Tori
· World Of Goo
· Zen Bound 2
PD: Sorry for my english, it's not my language, so if someone can help, i'd really appreciate it!
Can u try nova 3 by changing the build.prop because nova 3 isn't compatible.............and thanks
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:facepalm: Maaate, are you really serious with your post?
I can explain it to ya....
Guess why the Gnexus games work on your Moto phone?
Gnexus SoC is a TI4460 and the moto SoC is a TI4430.
The only difference is the frequency clock of the cpu and gpu (PowerVR540)
Look here.
And now take a closer look at the hardware of your Galaxy s3.
I has a Exynos 4412 chipset, that includes the same 4 arm-a9 cores, but uses the MaliMP4 gpu instead of the powerVR solution.
And thats all.
I know, there are games, that can use the same data on different chipsets, like dead trigger.
But older games from gameloft have data for each chipset. So if you change your phone from GS3 to Gnexus it will work with some games, but with others those have special data for every SoC it just wont work.
Sry for ya
and I hope I could help you a bit with your problem.
alexx910 said:
:facepalm: Maaate, are you really serious with your post?
I can explain it to ya....
Guess why the Gnexus games work on your Moto phone?
Gnexus SoC is a TI4460 and the moto SoC is a TI4430.
The only difference is the frequency clock of the cpu and gpu (PowerVR540)
Look here.
And now take a closer look at the hardware of your Galaxy s3.
I has a Exynos 4412 chipset, that includes the same 4 arm-a9 cores, but uses the MaliMP4 gpu instead of the powerVR solution.
And thats all.
I know, there are games, that can use the same data on different chipsets, like dead trigger.
But older games from gameloft have data for each chipset. So if you change your phone from GS3 to Gnexus it will work with some games, but with others those have special data for every SoC it just wont work.
Sry for ya
and I hope I could help you a bit with your problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except we get chainfire3D to work on JB
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sohail77 said:
Can u try nova 3 by changing the build.prop because nova 3 isn't compatible.............and thanks
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Click to collapse
It works fine. Who told you it doesn't work
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alexx910 said:
:facepalm: Maaate, are you really serious with your post?
I can explain it to ya....
Guess why the Gnexus games work on your Moto phone?
Gnexus SoC is a TI4460 and the moto SoC is a TI4430.
The only difference is the frequency clock of the cpu and gpu (PowerVR540)
Look here.
And now take a closer look at the hardware of your Galaxy s3.
I has a Exynos 4412 chipset, that includes the same 4 arm-a9 cores, but uses the MaliMP4 gpu instead of the powerVR solution.
And thats all.
I know, there are games, that can use the same data on different chipsets, like dead trigger.
But older games from gameloft have data for each chipset. So if you change your phone from GS3 to Gnexus it will work with some games, but with others those have special data for every SoC it just wont work.
Sry for ya
and I hope I could help you a bit with your problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Facepalm why? Not all of us have to know that about chipsets and whatever.
So there isn't anyway to play 9mm on GS III? Or any other game that isn't compatible??