Database Users

Interesting re: "full hardware accel" in ICS

Just a blog re: ICS enabling full hardware acceleration of the GUI. We've all figured it would make our tablets sprint but this is putting things in a new light so I figured I'd post it here.
Linky
I'm sure the programmers and people on top of Android out there knew this. It sort of worries me though. Keeping in mind, Apple is running a totally different system - it sort of makes me respect iOS more so, to know that such a smooth system exists within the limits of 256MB of Memory when we're going upwards of 512MB and still having 'issues'. Don't jump down my throat, I don't want iOS (or an idevice), I'm just sayin'.

Jesus. I've known for a long time that there is something wrong with the way Android accelerates stuff and the whole UI design paradigm, but that's just boneheaded o_o That begs the question though: who made the decision to implement acceleration in such a horrible way and why wasn't it designed properly from the get-go? Anyone who has the slightest experience in OpenGL programming would've been able to tell them they're doing it wrong.

What a stunningly stupid way to implement things.
Just goes to show how much difference it really makes when it comes to having experience in OS development...
I like Android, but this design choice was just... dumb.

FloatingFatMan said:
What a stunningly stupid way to implement things.
Just goes to show how much difference it really makes when it comes to having experience in development...
I like Android, but this design choice was just... dumb.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, there are several shortcomings to Android exactly because of these kinds of brainfarts, like e.g. the permissions system is terribly sketchy and should've received a lot more Q/A. But now that it's released there's little Google can do about it without breaking compatibility as they didn't even plan for it to be extendable.
I do quite like Android, but it's too uneven to really feel professional or trustworthy. I just recently pondered about what I'd want from a future mobile tablet on my Google+ page and while I didn't mention it there, I feel like Win8 would've been in a terrific position for the OS on such a device if they didn't decide to remove traditional desktop from the ARM-version. I know Windows and Microsoft aren't popular here, but they've got a lot more experience with OS-development than Google and are a lot better at power-management design and acceleration of UI and its drivers, plus they've really put some real effort into security lately. Alas, with them scrapping traditional desktop from ARM-version Win8 won't cut it, either.

You guys should read Google's blog post. That article misses one huge point: the trade off. This was far from a bad implementation, it was just a very different one. If you read the article you would know that ios freezes if you hold your finger on screen while loading a large list, Android does not. Android balances the CPU threads for ui display and data processing somewhat equally, while ios grants utter priority to their ui display thread . Basically, if the ui display thread is busy, data processing stops. Android is the winner, it is ios that will now be limited in speed with this configuration until it is optimized for new hardware much like how Android currently works!

autom8r said:
You guys should read Google's blog post. That article misses one huge point: the trade off. This was far from a bad implementation, it was just a very different one. If you read the article you would know that ios freezes if you hold your finger on screen while loading a large list, Android does not. Android balances the CPU threads for ui display and data processing somewhat equally, while ios grants utter priority to their ui display thread . Basically, if the ui display thread is busy, data processing stops. Android is the winner, it is ios that will now be limited in speed with this configuration until it is optimized for new hardware much like how Android currently works!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh, it is a bad implementation. You can have both a good implementation AND still balance priority of both the rendering queue and application threads, they are not mutually exclusive.

WereCatf said:
Well, there are several shortcomings to Android exactly because of these kinds of brainfarts, like e.g. the permissions system is terribly sketchy and should've received a lot more Q/A. But now that it's released there's little Google can do about it without breaking compatibility as they didn't even plan for it to be extendable.
I do quite like Android, but it's too uneven to really feel professional or trustworthy. I just recently pondered about what I'd want from a future mobile tablet on my Google+ page and while I didn't mention it there, I feel like Win8 would've been in a terrific position for the OS on such a device if they didn't decide to remove traditional desktop from the ARM-version. I know Windows and Microsoft aren't popular here, but they've got a lot more experience with OS-development than Google and are a lot better at power-management design and acceleration of UI and its drivers, plus they've really put some real effort into security lately. Alas, with them scrapping traditional desktop from ARM-version Win8 won't cut it, either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If Microsoft is dumb enough to kill desktop mode on ARM, that really destroys the Win8 tablet market outside of running on Intel chips, which puts them at sub-par graphics. I suppose the only hope then is if AMD steps in and I'm not all that much a fan of AMD, though they have tried to make good efforts in the mobile arena with their A-series chips and having decent GPUs.
I suppose I'll keep an eye on this and see what Microsoft does. Given their lack of intelligent decision making of late (ie. far dumber than their normal stupidity), I don't hold out much hope. Pity, Win8 tablets were looking strong, too.

Gnoop said:
If Microsoft is dumb enough to kill desktop mode on ARM, that really destroys the Win8 tablet market outside of running on Intel chips, which puts them at sub-par graphics. I suppose the only hope then is if AMD steps in and I'm not all that much a fan of AMD, though they have tried to make good efforts in the mobile arena with their A-series chips and having decent GPUs.
I suppose I'll keep an eye on this and see what Microsoft does. Given their lack of intelligent decision making of late (ie. far dumber than their normal stupidity), I don't hold out much hope. Pity, Win8 tablets were looking strong, too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Metro-interface is aimed for touch-based devices, including tablets. Desktop-mode doesn't work too well on such. The problem is that Win8 tablet could serve as BOTH a mobile device AND a desktop computer if Microsoft played its cards right and thus reserve a very nice spot for itself.

WereCatf said:
The Metro-interface is aimed for touch-based devices, including tablets. Desktop-mode doesn't work too well on such. The problem is that Win8 tablet could serve as BOTH a mobile device AND a desktop computer if Microsoft played its cards right and thus reserve a very nice spot for itself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed. Being able to handle both of those would hook me in pretty easily.

Own note, what now...Android abit disappointing?

This is not a android vs ios thread!
So I got my note and so far I’m loving the device, big screen, responsive, looks nice. battery is so so but I’m finding myself more than a little disappointed with android. I've rooted my note, not bothering with custom roms just yet, checking out stock performance atm which is rather good.
The issue I have is I cant find anything even remotely interesting to do with it. I was a android fanboy since the G1, it seemed like such an amazing OS and had so much potential but is it just me or does it seem like 3rd party development for it has ground to a halt?
When I moved over to iOS at first I was like, this is **** but then after jailbreaking a whole world opens up to you. It is literally limitless what you can do with it and it is all centralized. Jailbreak apps in one place (cydia) if your a try before you buy or just like apps for free then your find them all with installous, android is still to this day completely decentralized and disorganized it seems.
The play store is awful to navigate and I keep seeing the same apps I saw back in the day (G1 era) in the top lists, new development should of relegated these old apps by now, no matter how good they may be software evolution should of replaced them with something new surely? And the pricing is so much more expensive than the iOS appstore and the apps dont seem as polished and professional
Trying to find root tweaks is like pulling teeth, even on xda. You have to troll through post after post and even when you find something interesting it turns out not to be compatible with your device
I don't know, like I said I'm not trying to start a iOS v Android flame war at all, I've just found myself incredibly disappointed and was wondering what other people thought, who else has seen android evolve and thought along the same lines?

I would imagine a 5.3inch ios would be nice but it don't exist, so i am very happy with my note. ICS still not right but happy enough with GB till samsung get there act together.

flumps said:
This is not a android vs ios thread!
So I got my note and so far I’m loving the device, big screen, responsive, looks nice. battery is so so but I’m finding myself more than a little disappointed with android. I've rooted my note, not bothering with custom roms just yet, checking out stock performance atm which is rather good.
The issue I have is I cant find anything even remotely interesting to do with it. I was a android fanboy since the G1, it seemed like such an amazing OS and had so much potential but is it just me or does it seem like 3rd party development for it has ground to a halt?
When I moved over to iOS at first I was like, this is **** but then after jailbreaking a whole world opens up to you. It is literally limitless what you can do with it and it is all centralized. Jailbreak apps in one place (cydia) if your a try before you buy or just like apps for free then your find them all with installous, android is still to this day completely decentralized and disorganized it seems.
The play store is awful to navigate and I keep seeing the same apps I saw back in the day (G1 era) in the top lists, new development should of relegated these old apps by now, no matter how good they may be software evolution should of replaced them with something new surely? And the pricing is so much more expensive than the iOS appstore and the apps dont seem as polished and professional
Trying to find root tweaks is like pulling teeth, even on xda. You have to troll through post after post and even when you find something interesting it turns out not to be compatible with your device
I don't know, like I said I'm not trying to start a iOS v Android flame war at all, I've just found myself incredibly disappointed and was wondering what other people thought, who else has seen android evolve and thought along the same lines?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, I disagree with almost everything that you've said here.
It is unfair to even start this thread until you have tried custom ROMs, or even explored and tested the limits as to what can be achieved with the device and OS.
I don't understand what you mean by third party development grinding to a halt... If you're referring to apps, I think there are more third party developers showing interest in Android than ever! You have apps being released on both Android and iOS at the same time or sometimes even before iOS nowadays, which was unheard of a year or so ago!
The only bit I do agree with is the fact that it would be great if development was more centralised like Cydia... but then again I do like the idea of Android being such an open platform that anyone can develop/mod and it seems to have no walls, which allows for some amazing work to be done (app development, ROM development, tweaks, etc) and shared through places like XDA.
And the bit about App pricing... My brothers have iOS and I am a former iOS user and I seriously used to feel like a mug for paying so much more for an App that was cheaper or, in some cases, free on Android... Now I just mock my brothers about it!
I have found that Android is getting better and better! iOS is boring... To me, it's just an App launcher. Android is definitely, in my opinion a better operating system offering widgets, more open third party development, no requirement to be tied to any particular companies or software.
ICS is almost perfect on the note, once I run a third party launcher (APEX) and get rid of Touchwiz. I am extremely satisfied right now and I don't think there is any piece of hardware that will convince me to use iOS again.

What is it that you are wanting to do?
You have said you can't find anything interesting to do with it, but it's not clear what you want to do?
Music production, photo editing, programming, something technical, artistic?
Maybe someone can suggest an app that suits your needs, or point you to a forum/site with more info.
In regards to pricing, my understanding with iOS and itunes is that you need to purchase an app for each device. Whereas on Android, you can install an app on as many devices as you have linked to your Google account.
I do agree that iOS is much better for music apps. The audio in Android appears to have been tacked on as an afterthought from what I can gather.From what I've heard, it's not that companies like IK Multimedia don't want to write Android apps, they can't until Google fix some of the audio bugs.

i do mean apps by 3rd party development. and the apps in the play store simply dont stack up quaility wise against iOS.
examples:
the biggest games in the play store are gameloft games. its been this way since android first started.
square enix android:
imaginary range 1/2
crystal defenders
dragon quest slime wallpaper
square enix iOS:
final fantasy 1,2,3, tactics
chaos rings 1,2, omaga
square enix characters mail
secret of mana
imaginary range
sliding heroes
song summoner
chrono trigger
hills and rivers
crystal defenders
vanguard storm
747 deaths
voice fantasy
final fantasy VII advent children picture book
soul eater gallery
fullmetal alchamist
phrases used by native english speakers
dissidia 012
summer story
electronic arts android:
real racing 2
need for speed shift
tetris
worms
nba jam
fifa 12
spy mouse
madden nfl 12
dead space
the game of life
the old republic security key
electronic arts iOS:
monopoly
mirrors edge
scrabble
shift 2 unleashed
trival pursuit
tiger woods pga
the sims 3
monopoly here and now
fifa 11/12
monopoly hotels
need for speed undercover
the sims 3 ambitions
tetris
need for speed hot pursut
theme park
the simpsons arcade
deal or no deal
battledfield bad company
scrabble
the sims 3 world
battledship
bop it
mma
cluedo
fifa superstars
the game of life
fight night champions
connect 4
simcity deluxe
rockband
risk
lemonade tycoon
command and conquer
unlimate mortal kombat
boggle
spore origins
suviving high school
nba jam
reckless racing
dead space
yahtzee
skate it
pictureka
+ 75 more
imdb android: imdb
imdb iOS:
imdb
imdb trivia
imdb news
thats just 3 companys. iOS simply has more and better apps.
richlum said:
What is it that you are wanting to do?
You have said you can't find anything interesting to do with it, but it's not clear what you want to do?
Music production, photo editing, programming, something technical, artistic?
Maybe someone can suggest an app that suits your needs, or point you to a forum/site with more info.
In regards to pricing, my understanding with iOS and itunes is that you need to purchase an app for each device. Whereas on Android, you can install an app on as many devices as you have linked to your Google account.
I do agree that iOS is much better for music apps. The audio in Android appears to have been tacked on as an afterthought from what I can gather.From what I've heard, it's not that companies like IK Multimedia don't want to write Android apps, they can't until Google fix some of the audio bugs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well thats the thing. when i used my G1 and even xperia, everything was new and interesting but now nothing has changed. you can still only do the same things you could back then.
root
install advanced task manager of some description
install custom kernal/rom to make it go faster
themes
overclock and/or set up underclocking to save battery
set autorun permissions
install cracked apps if wanted
wifi teathering
and well..thats it.
what else is there? im am missing some wealth of knowledge? im not being sarcastic, im really asking if ive missed something? in the time that android has been around pretty much the only constant is google updating it. between the G1 and now very little has changed on the app front.

If you are an iOS fan boy, then you don't belong to here. Simple, clear and straight to the point.

Yeah boy... you're just a pure apple fan boy...
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I cannot agree more with the following statement
"until you have tried custom ROMs, or even explored and tested the limits as to what can be achieved with the device and OS"
True, true and true... I really don't understand what the OP is babbling about..
Has he even tried the new official LPF and/or LPY releases from Sammy?
try flashing those, doing a full wipe through CWM and deleting large files and see if SGN lacks for excitement. lol

And the fanboy crap starts. If you haven't got anything constructive to say then don't say anything at all
Ok so what your all saying is the best thing about android is flashing custom roms? But what do you do once you've done that? What else is there?
And lets keep the childeshness out of the thread pls
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I love android over ios but hes right about the apps. The games for Android are trash compared to iOS. I was actually talking about this the othet day with some people and they also agreed android is way better but iOS has all the games.
I've noticed with people on this forum that they just wannabe technical or just call you a fan boy and not admit. The playstore is garbage and had very few games. You'd think by now android would have catched up a lil bit.
Even the free apps for iOS are far greater than most paid apps for android.
Some of these games I'd expect on a flip phone not on a touch screen device with dual core processors and such.
sent from my virtuous inquisition/bricked kernal powered sensation 4G with beats by dre

Technical, yeah that's exactly what I was going for but I guess I didn't articulate it well enough
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The games selection is fine, do you really need more than what's available???
Btw, try CyanogenMod 9, great ROM. Paranoid Android looks very promising too.

Since most of the gripes seem to be about the quality of the games, why not sell your Note, buy a decent, second-hand iPhone 3GS and get a Nintendo 3DS or PS Vita?

Heh, i still have a. Iphone 4. I guess the lack of competive apps are my main gripe. The OS is fantastic and always has been. But its the apps that makes a portable device now and lets not forget guys that the avg end user proberly has never heard of custom roms unlike the geeks here at xda
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The OP has one thing right ,iOS is more centralized ,while android is fragmented .
but think about it for one second ,on one hand you have cydia developing for only 3 or 4 iOS running devices
whereas on the android side we have like 100000+ devices
have you been to the main page of the forums? I double dare you to find your device without searching for it's name.
however my dear friend this is where you show your lack of knowledge ,you want something centralized for Android? How about you flash an AOSP ROM like CM7\CM9? it's the same and shares the same code\features\themes\hacks\bugs across all devices that it supports .
so you see you can get a centralized experience on android if you wish.
flumps said:
i do mean apps by 3rd party development. and the apps in the play store simply dont stack up quaility wise against iOS.
examples:
the biggest games in the play store are gameloft games. its been this way since android first started.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IOS only beats android in games and music apps\accessories ,in productivity ,themes ,reading ,customization apps ,Android wins or gets the same quality.
flumps said:
well thats the thing. when i used my G1 and even xperia, everything was new and interesting but now nothing has changed. you can still only do the same things you could back then.
root
install advanced task manager of some description
install custom kernal/rom to make it go faster
themes
overclock and/or set up underclocking to save battery
set autorun permissions
install cracked apps if wanted
wifi teathering
and well..thats it.
what else is there? im am missing some wealth of knowledge? im not being sarcastic, im really asking if ive missed something? in the time that android has been around pretty much the only constant is google updating it. between the G1 and now very little has changed on the app front.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
while you are complaining about the lack of change since the days of G1 ,let me stop you here and ask what has changed in the Iphone since 2007?
it's the same miserable OS that it was on iOS1 ,they just added some of the basic missing features over the years ,let's see:
*added the ability to choose a desktop wallpaper wow even a nokia dumbo from 2000 could do that .
*added the ability to choose sms ringtones ,again any phone from 1990 could do that.
*added folders ,which was available on android and symbian for ever.
*added siri which is just a gimmick of a voice assistant ,again available since the days of s60.
*added notification pull down center ,which is a blatant copy of android's notifications bar.
*copy\paste of text ,big deal ,others had it way before iOS
*added multitasking in iOS4 ,really a "smartphone" without multitasking?
so you see iOS is very very boring ,I really don't know how you can say boring about android when you're using such a static OS.
same UI ,same look ,terrible lack of features and freedom ,you have much more freedom on a non rooted locked bootloader android than you have on a fully jailbroken Iphone.
android has changed much more compared to iOS ,it's UI have changed ,it added new big features like 10.1 flash support ,and face unlock (not very useful but still at least new),visual multitasking ,,playstore changes ,among others.
android was full of features back in the days of G1 ,and it's even more full of features now ,plus more smooth,mature,and stable.
all iOS is doing is play catch up with android features.

ios is limitless after jail breaking...HA thanks for the chuckle.
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Not really true about jailbroken iphones being less customizable than stock android but i see what your getting at. Jailbroken iphone can do everything a rooted android can do and more but much, much easier. Its a much more streamlined process. Rooted android theres a learning curve, whereas jailbroken iphone is useable almost instantly.
I really wanted this thread not to be another android v ios thread but i guess theres no getting away from it
.
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Care to explain?
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flumps said:
Jailbroken iphone can do everything a rooted android can do and more but much, much easier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you care to explain this???
Can I have some examples?
My jailbroken iphone couldn't even do half the things a non-rooted stock Android phone could do!

Dude, you're 100% correct about IOS' superior app selection, but to say that a jailbroken iPhone is more capable than a rooted Android? That's so unbelievably wrong that it's downright moronic. I've owned an iPhone from day one and have been jailbreaking it for years and I don't have the slightest idea what you're referring to.

Android apps and native code

I'm just wondering, with all the top devices now being on ICS or JB, or having updates in the near future, is there a conscious effort from developers to start recoding their apps in native code to keep them fast, bugfree and light? And if not, what would it take, as an online community to try to get them to do so?
Now, I am not a dev so I realise that anything I say here may be inaccurate, but to the best of my knowledge:
Most android apps are currently programmed in HTML5 or Java, both of which are easy to port and run on all android versions with the power to run them, as they have some kind of virtual emulator to run them, but that means they bottle-neck the phone, they run slow, they force close, these scripts are often buggy and unstable and they don't run or look as good/well as they should. This was great in early days when phones were slow anyways so you wouldn't notice the difference, but iOS and Android (and perhaps WP7, Rim and Symbian) apps would all get the same update in a relatively close timeframe and all be almost the same. In the current world of ultraphones such as the S3, iPhone 5 and Lumia 920, regardless of how you feel about their manufactureres or firmwares, are all powerful and fast phones, all capable of running native coded apps on the latest firmware versions and they are kick-ass all round. Now, native coded apps, as far as I'm aware, no longer need to be emulated, there is no program running to handle them, they are being read as if part of the system itself, kind of a synthetic arm attached to a person rather than a robot being operated by remote control (???), and therefore are faster and more efficient and if coded well, stable.
Apps currently seem to be the bottle neck on my s3, I can make the phone speed through the internet like there's no tomorrow, but if I open, for argument's sake, the YouTube app, it takes 2 or 3 seconds to open. The Facebook app (yes, Suckerberg has confirmed a native app for Android similar to the native iOS app for this one) is still kind of slow though I think it isn't as bad as people say. Lots of apps crap-out and die or load much slower than they should when 4 cores are pumping pure mobile testosterone into them, so we really need the boost.
A lot of iOS apps are natively coded now, they load up so fast on the 4S, and they are more reliable, which is a shame, because for obvious reasons I love the S3 much more but I find myself still reaching for the 4S for certain actions because I know that the apps will be ready quicker and wont decide they've had enough and die half way through use.
What do you guys, many of whom know more about this kind of stuff than me, have to offer in terms of this subject or what are your opinions?

This is specifically development related how? Wrong section.

OP, Please read the rules about posting and the proper places to post.
If you need to revisit the rules the link is in my sig. Please do NOT post non development threads in the development section.
Thread moved to general

Sorry, my logic was that 3rd party apps talk was to p do with developers and development, my apologies.
So, any answers?

There is a very simple reason to use Java for apps - write once run anywhere. If apps were native then they would have to be recompiled for every phone. In the Apple world this is not such a big problem but in the Android world this would soon become impractical. Your view on native vs emulated is not correct and probably a relic from Java version 1.0. Native apps do not necessarily run faster than Java apps and in most cases there is not difference in speed. People make a lot of assumptions that because its a virtual machine that it will be slow. The Davlik VM uses highly optimised byte code and is simply not the case. Most Android apps are UI and I/O bound and not CPU bound so you will not see any performance improvements by making them native. You mentioned loading times. Most apps are Odexed to optimise loading so its as fast as possible. Also bear in mind that many CPU intensive tasks are often handed over to specific chips i.e. graphics is handed over to the GPU e.g. a native call to OpenGL will be the same speed as a Java call to OpenGL. Games are the most CPU intensive apps you get on a phone but Android provides hardware acceleration pipelines to handover the workload to the GPU and not the CPU. So for significant majority of applications you will not notice a speed difference between a Java app and a native app and this applies to many other platforms and not just Android phones. This is of course not true for the kernel. Since that has to deal with multiple apps all accessing resources possibly simultaneously then that has to be as fast as it possibly can be. This is why the kernel is native but all of the apps that sit on it are not. Since there are a limited number of kernels usually one per version of Android, each manufacturer has no trouble porting that since that's much easier than porting millions of apps.
Also, your assumptions that non Java code is bug free is also not true. Apps in C/C++ are just as likely to have bugs in as Java code. In some cases they are more likely because you don't have to worry about memory management in Java because of the Garbage Collector in the VM. It sounds like you experienced some poor performing apps but this will be to do with poor coding and not because its written in Java.
So deploying apps in native code would be a major headache when when testing and debugging on multiple hardware platforms and the unlikely speed benefits of native are likely to not be visible to the end user. We would not have the rich world of apps on Android and multiple Android hardware vendors that we do today if apps were native.
I hope this answers your query.
dodgebizkit said:
I'm just wondering, with all the top devices now being on ICS or JB, or having updates in the near future, is there a conscious effort from developers to start recoding their apps in native code to keep them fast, bugfree and light? And if not, what would it take, as an online community to try to get them to do so?
Now, I am not a dev so I realise that anything I say here may be inaccurate, but to the best of my knowledge:
Most android apps are currently programmed in HTML5 or Java, both of which are easy to port and run on all android versions with the power to run them, as they have some kind of virtual emulator to run them, but that means they bottle-neck the phone, they run slow, they force close, these scripts are often buggy and unstable and they don't run or look as good/well as they should. This was great in early days when phones were slow anyways so you wouldn't notice the difference, but iOS and Android (and perhaps WP7, Rim and Symbian) apps would all get the same update in a relatively close timeframe and all be almost the same. In the current world of ultraphones such as the S3, iPhone 5 and Lumia 920, regardless of how you feel about their manufactureres or firmwares, are all powerful and fast phones, all capable of running native coded apps on the latest firmware versions and they are kick-ass all round. Now, native coded apps, as far as I'm aware, no longer need to be emulated, there is no program running to handle them, they are being read as if part of the system itself, kind of a synthetic arm attached to a person rather than a robot being operated by remote control (???), and therefore are faster and more efficient and if coded well, stable.
Apps currently seem to be the bottle neck on my s3, I can make the phone speed through the internet like there's no tomorrow, but if I open, for argument's sake, the YouTube app, it takes 2 or 3 seconds to open. The Facebook app (yes, Suckerberg has confirmed a native app for Android similar to the native iOS app for this one) is still kind of slow though I think it isn't as bad as people say. Lots of apps crap-out and die or load much slower than they should when 4 cores are pumping pure mobile testosterone into them, so we really need the boost.
A lot of iOS apps are natively coded now, they load up so fast on the 4S, and they are more reliable, which is a shame, because for obvious reasons I love the S3 much more but I find myself still reaching for the 4S for certain actions because I know that the apps will be ready quicker and wont decide they've had enough and die half way through use.
What do you guys, many of whom know more about this kind of stuff than me, have to offer in terms of this subject or what are your opinions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Amazing answer.
Sent from an electronic device.

If your reaching for your 4s you should be on medication....
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I don't buy that "native apps need to be compiled many times so it's a major headache" argument. The compilation can be done as a part of the deployment to store process. Play store knows the phone it installs the app on so can substitute a right executable. It can all be done behind the scene. Linux is C++ and yet is deployed on many various platforms.
Google should rather encourage people writing native code for performance critical applications rather than discouraging it, what they are doing now. Things like launchers, maps, browsers should be native. Java is often a lot slower than c++. If you want to see this try comparing map rendering in native and java in OsmAnd for example.
Adittionally, apps performing fast drain proportionally less battery, as they use less cpu cycles to do the same job. This is an important factor on mobile phones.
I've been professionally coding for 13 years both in c++ and java and have a good clue what I talk about. Also java coders tend to be less organized than c++ ones, which can explain the fact that we see more fc's on android than crashes on windows. A friend of mine likes telling "java is a language for programmers who cannot program".
"Smartphone is no longer a phone"

ahacker said:
Also java coders tend to be less organized than c++ ones, which can explain the fact that we see more fc's on android than crashes on windows. A friend of mine likes telling "java is a language for programmers who cannot program".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I call troll.
If you'd been a professional developer for 13 years you would know full well that both those statements are utter tosh.
Geoff (professional developer - not java - for 17 years)
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app

ahacker said:
Linux is C++ and yet is deployed on many various platforms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If by "Linux", you mean the kernel then no. Linux is written in C. The GNU coreutils are also C. (Though the GCC people do want to make GCC a C++ program. But I digress.)
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

If you do raw speed benchmark tests to CPU intensive apps then a compiled app will always beat a VM app. Benchmarks do vary widely based on the type of benchmark and what compiler optimisations you turn on. This adds a complexity to your idea of letting the Play Store do the compilation. As a developer I'd hate to be in the situation that my compiled app worked fine on my phone and emulator but didn't work when compiled by the play store. How would you debug that? However despite native being faster the speed benefits are almost entirely hidden in most apps because they are interacting with the user, downloading from the web or offloading to the GPU. In my last mail I didn't even touch on security. Using a VM is a very neat way to give an app a limited security sandbox which is very secure.
I think you're maybe being a little harsh on Java programmers. You get good and bad programmers in any language. I think the reality is with a language as open as Java you get more "have a go" programmers which can result in some very dodgy apps on the Play Store. However, the developers of the core Android apps do not fall into this category and its the core apps that we really care about here.
I myself have over 20 years experience coding an Java, C/C++ and a variety of different platforms but rather than descend into a Java vs C++ war and focus back on the original question. The efficiency gains using native are not enough to warrant having to support native apps. If they were, a tech savy firm like Google would have done it. I think the security, support and deployment advantages far outweigh the performance gains for most applications. Sure there would some parts of a few apps that may benefit from the optimisation that native would provide but to facilitate native development Google would have to provide two APIs. Instead Google has ONE platform for all apps, theirs and everyone else's which is very sensible. If Google had to support a native API and a Java API then the doubles the support and development work which would increase time to market and increase cost. For a commercial company the right solution is always a balance between the right technical solution and practicality and cost considerations.

Marsbar said:
I call troll.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I call an aggressive idiot, who instead of arguing against my points attacks me personally.
"Smartphone is no longer a phone"

ahacker said:
I call an aggressive idiot, who instead of arguing against my points attacks me personally.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you really think that was a personal attack you have some issues.
To come to a developers forum that is likely to have a high proportion of java developers and say that about them is a troll, pure and simple. If you want to prove otherwise then make an argument that makes any sort of sense.
Quality developers develop quality code whatever language they use. I've worked on quality codebases in VB6 of all things and I've worked on C++ from supposed professionals that made my brain spin from the mess.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app

Then what is the advantage of native coding?

dodgebizkit said:
Then what is the advantage of native coding?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These days, when the majority of app time is io and memory bound and when things like graphic manipulation is handled by the graphics chips or (failing that) by tightly optimized native libraries, far less than you might think, especially since dalvik (the android jvm) comes with a just-in-time compiler that effectively turns java bytecode into native code. Any advantage there might be is rarely worth the extra development time required.
People like Mozilla are perhaps the exception in that they have a huge amount of investment in legacy code that would cost a fortune to redevelop. But for a new app, there's little obvious advantage.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app

[Q] My thoughts on Android vs iOS apps

I recently got myself a Nexus 4, my first Android phone, and had been using it as my main phone for the past five days. I come from the iOS world (keen jailbreaker) and my initial reactions were very positive:
Love widgets and how convenient they can be
Love the extent of customisation
Love the big screen and clean UI in general
Love the hardware (camera and speed)
Love Google service integration (maps, contact, calendar) = just works
However, there is one aspect that really bothers me and I wanted to hear what other people think.
APPS.
iOS apps are often more polished than their Android equivalent, in another word they contain less bugs. I find Android apps crash more often and some of the functions don’t always work. Example: I found a bug in Skype that the ringing tone continues to sound even after the call is connected. Skype has been around for so many years and yet there is a bug?
.
Android don’t always get the newest or most updated apps because it is easier for developers to create apps on iOS. This can lead to some core function of an apps missing compare to their equivalent on iOS. Example: I have a Synology NAS at home that acts as my media hub, which can be remotely accessed by Synology-made streaming apps on the iOS. On Android, the video app isn’t available and the music app is very buggy and lacks some very core functions.
.
Due to the ever increasing range of Android devices, that is at a pace faster than iOS devices, I feel there is a greater chance of an Android device becoming unsupported by an app than an iOS device. This means potentially one has to upgrade to a new Android device sooner than they can afford or wish to.
.
There is a greater range of apps, including games, on iOS. Example: I really would like a decent photo editing app, such as Snapseed, on my Android but can’t seem to find one that I like. Official Simplenotes app is also unavailable on Android.
I suspect the defragmentation of the Android ecosystem is, in part, responsible for the problems I mentioned and it’s something I don’t see Google can do much about anytime soon. Therefore, in my mind, the situation is likely to remain the same for a while which makes Android less appealing to me. Understandably, it is a complex and widespread issue that is inherent in the Android world.
Sorry about my boring post but I have two days left to refund my Nexus 4. Should I keep it or refund it?
Thanks guys

hankdu said:
I recently got myself a Nexus 4, my first Android phone, and had been using it as my main phone for the past five days. I come from the iOS world (keen jailbreaker) and my initial reactions were very positive:
Love widgets and how convenient they can be
Love the extent of customisation
Love the big screen and clean UI in general
Love the hardware (camera and speed)
Love Google service integration (maps, contact, calendar) = just works
However, there is one aspect that really bothers me and I wanted to hear what other people think.
APPS.
iOS apps are often more polished than their Android equivalent, in another word they contain less bugs. I find Android apps crash more often and some of the functions don’t always work. Example: I found a bug in Skype that the ringing tone continues to sound even after the call is connected. Skype has been around for so many years and yet there is a bug?
.
Android don’t always get the newest or most updated apps because it is easier for developers to create apps on iOS. This can lead to some core function of an apps missing compare to their equivalent on iOS. Example: I have a Synology NAS at home that acts as my media hub, which can be remotely accessed by Synology-made streaming apps on the iOS. On Android, the video app isn’t available and the music app is very buggy and lacks some very core functions.
.
Due to the ever increasing range of Android devices, that is at a pace faster than iOS devices, I feel there is a greater chance of an Android device becoming unsupported by an app than an iOS device. This means potentially one has to upgrade to a new Android device sooner than they can afford or wish to.
.
There is a greater range of apps, including games, on iOS. Example: I really would like a decent photo editing app, such as Snapseed, on my Android but can’t seem to find one that I like. Official Simplenotes app is also unavailable on Android.
I suspect the defragmentation of the Android ecosystem is, in part, responsible for the problems I mentioned and it’s something I don’t see Google can do much about anytime soon. Therefore, in my mind, the situation is likely to remain the same for a while which makes Android less appealing to me. Understandably, it is a complex and widespread issue that is inherent in the Android world.
Sorry about my boring post but I have two days left to refund my Nexus 4. Should I keep it or refund it?
Thanks guys
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure, it's easy to develop a "polished" app with no bugs when your consumer audience is using a handful of IOS-based devices. The reason Android apps SEEM more buggy is that there are hundreds of different devices that use the Android OS. Problems are going to arise due to differences in hardware, but a good developer nails these problems and their app will evolve into a polished, bug-free work of art.
---------- Post added at 01:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:03 PM ----------
hankdu said:
Sorry about my boring post but I have two days left to refund my Nexus 4. Should I keep it or refund it?
Thanks guys
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To answer your question, though, you should keep it. There's not a WHOLE lot going on with the nexus yet because of availability issues, but bugs will be squashed. Have patience. As more devs get their hands on it, it will get a lot better.

Refund it - that is one more device available for us on the play store ?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I won't tell you that you're a fan boy, or that you're stupid for thinking the way you do. It's clear.
Ask yourself this: are apps what you need to make your phone productive and useful?
I asked myself this question and found out, no. I use core apps like chrome, power amp, twitter and they're all well polished apps.
The freedom of the OS matters more to me than the apps, then again android apps are that bad.
Good luck

Return it. You want to just use the phone, as a phone.
ios is for you.

Photo apps
hankdu said:
I recently got myself a Nexus 4, my first Android phone, and had been using it as my main phone for the past five days. I come from the iOS world (keen jailbreaker) and my initial reactions were very positive:
Love widgets and how convenient they can be
Love the extent of customisation
Love the big screen and clean UI in general
Love the hardware (camera and speed)
Love Google service integration (maps, contact, calendar) = just works
However, there is one aspect that really bothers me and I wanted to hear what other people think.
APPS.
iOS apps are often more polished than their Android equivalent, in another word they contain less bugs. I find Android apps crash more often and some of the functions don’t always work. Example: I found a bug in Skype that the ringing tone continues to sound even after the call is connected. Skype has been around for so many years and yet there is a bug?
.
Android don’t always get the newest or most updated apps because it is easier for developers to create apps on iOS. This can lead to some core function of an apps missing compare to their equivalent on iOS. Example: I have a Synology NAS at home that acts as my media hub, which can be remotely accessed by Synology-made streaming apps on the iOS. On Android, the video app isn’t available and the music app is very buggy and lacks some very core functions.
.
Due to the ever increasing range of Android devices, that is at a pace faster than iOS devices, I feel there is a greater chance of an Android device becoming unsupported by an app than an iOS device. This means potentially one has to upgrade to a new Android device sooner than they can afford or wish to.
.
There is a greater range of apps, including games, on iOS. Example: I really would like a decent photo editing app, such as Snapseed, on my Android but can’t seem to find one that I like. Official Simplenotes app is also unavailable on Android.
I suspect the defragmentation of the Android ecosystem is, in part, responsible for the problems I mentioned and it’s something I don’t see Google can do much about anytime soon. Therefore, in my mind, the situation is likely to remain the same for a while which makes Android less appealing to me. Understandably, it is a complex and widespread issue that is inherent in the Android world.
Sorry about my boring post but I have two days left to refund my Nexus 4. Should I keep it or refund it?
Thanks guys
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here comes a list of photo apps I hope you will like. I have them all installed on my Note 2 and am often forced to use more than one of them to get the results i wish. This does not however bother me. Nor does it bother me that some cost over a whole $1 to buy.
PicsPlayPro + great for making basic adjustments - no sharpness or fine rotation
Pixlr - this is brand new and very promising. Has both fine rotation and sharpness - no historgram or curves like PicsPlayPro
TouchRetouch +fantastic at removing annoying objects or people from plain backgrounds - you must know it's limits
Afterfocus + the best I know of for getting that shallow portrait depth of field.
Aviary
SketchBookPro - this is more of an art program but you can import pictures add layers, text and paint to retouch. - you need the S-Pen
PicSayPro: lots of gimmicky filters and effect +++layer masks!!
The following are a collection that are both camera and filters or just cameras
Vignette
LittlePhoto
MagicHour
HDRPro ProHDR? +++very good for landscapes, interior architecture -don't try photo people
Picturesque + some amazing effects can be achieved with this app. Check out #picturesque on Instagram
Lastly Cymera needs to be mention for its 5 different cameras, its fun filters
Hope this helps. Welcome to android.
Oh, I almost forgot my favourite camera FV-5. Silly name great camera.

I would never get an Android tablet because of the lack of premium quality apps. I would want apps like Garage Band which Android has nothing remotely close to. Like on a PC the app selection for a tablet is the most important aspect of the device, and iOS crushes Android in that department.
I can live with the limited premium app selection for a phone because I dont use my phone as a computer or for doing serious tasks.

dankoman said:
Sure, it's easy to develop a "polished" app with no bugs when your consumer audience is using a handful of IOS-based devices. The reason Android apps SEEM more buggy is that there are hundreds of different devices that use the Android OS. Problems are going to arise due to differences in hardware, but a good developer nails these problems and their app will evolve into a polished, bug-free work of art.
---------- Post added at 01:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:03 PM ----------
To answer your question, though, you should keep it. There's not a WHOLE lot going on with the nexus yet because of availability issues, but bugs will be squashed. Have patience. As more devs get their hands on it, it will get a lot better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After some thoughts and insightful opinions from other android users - I have decided to keep the device. You are right, the availability is an issue at the moment and I believe android apps are only going to be come more polished as time pasts.

qwahchees said:
I won't tell you that you're a fan boy, or that you're stupid for thinking the way you do. It's clear.
Ask yourself this: are apps what you need to make your phone productive and useful?
I asked myself this question and found out, no. I use core apps like chrome, power amp, twitter and they're all well polished apps.
The freedom of the OS matters more to me than the apps, then again android apps are that bad.
Good luck
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You've made some very good points and I seemed to have forgotten the key here is how I intend to use the device. All the core apps I use are all very polished on Android and, in fact, I like them more than on iOS because of all the available customization options. iOS at the moment has no jailbreak for many of their new devices and I foresee jailbreaking becoming more and more difficult. I enjoy the freedom on Android. Thanks for your advice :good:

Dmwitz said:
Here comes a list of photo apps I hope you will like. I have them all installed on my Note 2 and am often forced to use more than one of them to get the results i wish. This does not however bother me. Nor does it bother me that some cost over a whole $1 to buy.
PicsPlayPro + great for making basic adjustments - no sharpness or fine rotation
Pixlr - this is brand new and very promising. Has both fine rotation and sharpness - no historgram or curves like PicsPlayPro
TouchRetouch +fantastic at removing annoying objects or people from plain backgrounds - you must know it's limits
Afterfocus + the best I know of for getting that shallow portrait depth of field.
Aviary
SketchBookPro - this is more of an art program but you can import pictures add layers, text and paint to retouch. - you need the S-Pen
PicSayPro: lots of gimmicky filters and effect +++layer masks!!
The following are a collection that are both camera and filters or just cameras
Vignette
LittlePhoto
MagicHour
HDRPro ProHDR? +++very good for landscapes, interior architecture -don't try photo people
Picturesque + some amazing effects can be achieved with this app. Check out #picturesque on Instagram
Lastly Cymera needs to be mention for its 5 different cameras, its fun filters
Hope this helps. Welcome to android.
Oh, I almost forgot my favourite camera FV-5. Silly name great camera.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WOW! THANK YOU! That has saved me so much time and they all look very intriguing! One of the positive things about Android is that there seems to always be a lite version to try out before one decides to upgrade to the full version. I may be wrong with what I said earlier about couldn't find a good photo editing app. Again, much appreciated for your recommendations :good:

idividebyzero said:
I would never get an Android tablet because of the lack of premium quality apps. I would want apps like Garage Band which Android has nothing remotely close to. Like on a PC the app selection for a tablet is the most important aspect of the device, and iOS crushes Android in that department.
I can live with the limited premium app selection for a phone because I dont use my phone as a computer or for doing serious tasks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know what you mean - i got an ipad and that is what I use if there is an iOS app that I really want to try out. Its very hard to give up ios completely.

After reading the responses I got from this thread, I have decided not to return my N4. Here goes why:
None of the android apps is buggy to the extent that they are unusable. I suspect since JB has only just been released, bugs will be ironed out gradually. Android apps may not have all the functions as their iOS equivalent but the missing functions are not absolutely vital to me. There are usually some work around for the missing feature, such as use another app or just simply use a laptop. Many of the core apps I regularly use on my phone are polished on Android. In fact, I actually prefer the experience of these core apps on Android more than on iOS. The amount of tweaking I can do is simply too much to give up after having enjoyed the freedom of doing so. When I first unzipped a file on the N4, oh my, I was like “sweet!”.
I had forgotten that the key to my choice between iOS and Android was how I intended to use my phone. Having recognized this the choice between the two systems was an easy one - Android was clearly better (for me):
gmail and youtube apps were both better
video playback supported more format
reading experience was amazing thanks to the amazing screen
web browsing was wayyyyy smoother
apps were better integrated into each other
Looks like the N4 is here to stay
Thanks everyone for your input!

idividebyzero said:
I would never get an Android tablet because of the lack of premium quality apps. I would want apps like Garage Band which Android has nothing remotely close to. Like on a PC the app selection for a tablet is the most important aspect of the device, and iOS crushes Android in that department.
I can live with the limited premium app selection for a phone because I dont use my phone as a computer or for doing serious tasks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am exactly the opposite. I can't really do anything on iPad since what I do need jailbreak at least. I need a Tab that could run Linux, or access one. I'm waiting for the day it comes to some Android Tablet and then buy 1. I now have an iPad that is sitting somewhere. Ever since I received my Nexus 4 I have never touched the iPad again. I don't have an Android tab to compare, but my friend's tab are pretty bland. It's pretty much a blown up version of the phone.

You can run Ubuntu on N7.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app

I would defiantly agree with you. iOS apps are more polished on the whole. While this isn't 100% true, I feel like many apps on iOS are more trustworthy and more likely to just work. Android on the other hand you have to filter through a ton of crap...
But then a polished Android app is just as functional as a polished iOS app. There is no reason why a well made app for iOS would be better than a well made Android app.

hankdu said:
I
[*]Due to the ever increasing range of Android devices, that is at a pace faster than iOS devices, I feel there is a greater chance of an Android device becoming unsupported by an app than an iOS device. This means potentially one has to upgrade to a new Android device sooner than they can afford or wish to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you feel this way because you come from the Apple ecosystem. As a quick and dirty Apple developer I find myself getting increasingly frustrated with our newer OS updates breaking things. Even pulling sysinfo seems to be different with every OS they release.
Google as well as their app developers are both well aware that most of the android community is still running on Gingerbread, so I don't think you'll see your Nexus 4 go out of style anytime soon. Keep in mind that you also have a Nexus device, and will in all likeliness be one of the first to taste Key Lime Pie whenever it's released.

Warrior1975 said:
You can run Ubuntu on N7.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know. Thats why i said that. Wait until the day you can run Ubuntu on iPad.
sent from my straight out of limbo 2 Nexus 4 using XDA-premium

wngmv said:
I know. Thats why i said that. Wait until the day you can run Ubuntu on iPad.
sent from my straight out of limbo 2 Nexus 4 using XDA-premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I must have misunderstood your post. It seemed like you were waiting for Ubuntu to come to an android tab from the way you worded it.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda app-developers app

You chose well. I had every iPhone from the original to the 4s and I do agree with you that apps seem more polished, but that's not everything. I've actually read articles where iOS apps crash more than android, but apple's way of programming will hold a still of the last image on the screen until the app restarts, all without the user knowing... Now, I have no proof of this, it's just something I read.
As for android, there's just more that can be done even without rooting. I was so tired of the jailbreak cat and mouse game with apple, but everything that I couldn't get on iOS, is all right there on android.
My last point in beating this dead horse I'd that this entire response was easily written by using Google's stock swiping keyboard! Nothing like that with apple....
Sent from my De-Sensed HTC Vivid using xda premium

I consider myself lucky to have a jail broken ipad 3. Jailbreak is declining and it's a pity.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

Thinking of leaving Windows Phone for Android?

Holy $#!^ don't do it! I had some issues with the WP8 upgrade that upset me enough to try out the competition. I left the Lumia 920 for the HTC One 4 months ago. I will say that having apps for everything and the ability to flash Rom's is cool, but that's about it. The OS sucks. I have jotted down some of my personal grievances in case anyone who thinks like me is thinking of switching. This will hopefully prevent a ton of wasted time and money.
• Overall OS is buggy and a total resource hog. It requires premium hardware specs to deliver an experience close to the smoothness and fluidity found in Windows Phone and iOS, but still doesn’t achieve that. And don’t even think about matching performance of budget Android phones vs. budget Windows Phones, not even in the same league.
• It requires almost daily reboot’s to keep performance from suffering or the OS from completely crashing. This usually depends on how many apps I use on any given day but is still far, far lower in performance reliability than Windows Phone.
• It is the most virus prone mobile OS available. This is pretty huge. In addition, Google data mines every account you set up on the phone. As soon as I set up my company IMAP account, and I mean, next day, I started receiving junk for the first time in 4 years. Absolutely unforgivable.
• Touch responsiveness is a joke. The delay on the keyboard response, for example, when you’re used to iOS or WP is unbearable for me and feels super low quality
• The graphics and icons are kind of toy which requires a launcher and icon pack to remedy. Even then, most packs I tried only covered half the apps I needed and the remaining app icons looked stupid. So I had to individually edit icons to get something acceptable to me.
• Communication apps are horrible. Mail, Contacts, Messaging and Dialer apps can all be replaced by better alternatives, but you run into issues when using one Dev’s dialer, another’s contacts app because the contacts app has a dialer that sucks and vice versa but when both are installed...... Forget it. It’s all a confusing mess that forced me back to the stock applications experience, which sucks.
• Most Android users and developers will tell you that the only way to get the best performance out of Android is to flash a custom ROM. In other words, Google has done such a rookie job on this OS that a community of non-paid hobbyists (Who are incredibly talented and people who help others to seemingly no end) are the go to guys when you want to achieve today’s standards in smartphone performance! Only, not all ROM’s are created equally and aside from the pains of flashing until you find something you like, you risk bricking your phone and voiding the warranty. Google should hire these Dev's and release something quality from the gate!
• Music library management is so painful for me. I, like many people have used iTunes for years and also used Zune and Xbox Music. Apple is the obvious winner here as iTunes works seamlessly with iOS. Windows Phone has a clean little desktop app that syncs my iTunes playlists and songs, but it’s an extra step. Android requires a desktop app and Android app combo. There are a bunch and the one I found the least annoying was TuneSync but I couldn’t get it to work via USB so it took an eternity to sync a few playlists. And, the stock music player is ****.
Honestly, I don't understand how Android has the explosive market share it's enjoying today, I hate it. When I compare it to Windows Phone or iOS, it's like a cheap knock off of what a smartphone OS is supposed to feel like. They have apps, lots of apps and some of which I will really miss. But the OS? When comparing straight up performance, integration of services, stability and reliability, polish, fluidity and built in communication suite, for me it's no contest and I can't wait to get back to Windows Phone!
Hope this helps someone!

You just dun get ride in Android OS for my opinion...lol
For me Android is great, not so like Windows Mobile, iOS still ok if for daily use.
Of course if in smoothness Windows phone and iOS are more smooth than Android, but that's got something Android can found but other OS can't found one; and also in Android 4.3 this problem is finally solve (by using my Nexus 7 2nd gen)
For my opinion, Android is more to those engineering ppl, Windows phone is more to business ppl

nahh, its just you.
1) I dont have to reboot my phone. my uptime is like 100 hrs, and no lag or bugs or anything like tat.
2) what are you doing.. seriously? two questions. did you install porn? -virus+spam and how many instant messaging apps do you have? -lag
3) icons are smth i complain about as well. android and iOS is the same type of icons. windows give a sense of class.
4) itunes, seriously?? i stop using my ipod coz of itunes, i threw away my iphone coz of itunes. music syncing is a piece of crap, especially on a home computer.
5) touch responsiveness? i tink you got to send ur unit to the service centre, probably got a faulty unit
6) custom roms are there for a reason. Google provide a vanilla rom: smooth and minimal. All the other manufacturers are making their own rom=lag/useless. So custom rom are made for ppl to give variety, like PA having hybrid prop, and aokp having lots of stuff to customise.
7) Communication app problem? its coz ur used to ur WP. when i use WP, i feel like throwing it away too.
8) music app really kinda sucks tho, i just stream.
Windows phone really look classy, and i like the feel. but with the limitation, it obviously show why the market share keeps dropping.
iOS-getting outdated. iOS 7 looks cool, but usability is so last decade
WP- classy, for non-tech people who is so lazy to make their phone look special
Android- too much customization, but everyone's device is unique. well except those non-techie again.
Ubuntu- cool, but still buggy.

Wp class for no tech people ok but no file manager, no manual network setting....nooo

sss2sssss said:
You just dun get ride in Android OS for my opinion...lol
For me Android is great, not so like Windows Mobile, iOS still ok if for daily use.
Of course if in smoothness Windows phone and iOS are more smooth than Android, but that's got something Android can found but other OS can't found one; and also in Android 4.3 this problem is finally solve (by using my Nexus 7 2nd gen)
For my opinion, Android is more to those engineering ppl, Windows phone is more to business ppl
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android for engineer people? What exactly has android that helps "engineer" people?

jacktay94 said:
nahh, its just you.
Windows phone really look classy, and i like the feel. but with the limitation, it obviously show why the market share keeps dropping.
Ubuntu- cool, but still buggy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually Windows Phone's market share is increasing... Blackberry is the one that's slowly dwindling.
Agree with you on Ubuntu... I'm interested to see the "final product".
Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk 4

I made the mistake of getting a WP8 phone after being an Android fan for some time. I currently own a Nokia Lumia WP8, an iPhone 5 for work and the Galaxy S and Galaxy S2 in a drawer at the house.
No phone is perfect, Android has it's share of issues, as does iOS as does WP8. It's just that Android and iPhone can at least do the things they do and do it well. WP8 still doesn't have a decent facebook app or decent map app, the data speeds are significantly slower than other android/ios phones that are on the same network, push notifications sometimes don't come through until far after the notification was originally pushed. Battery life is sub-par, little customization of the OS, even the larger and more popular applications that actually do manage to make it to WP8 end up having their gui re-written and tailored to look like the rest of WP8 which actually becomes pretty boring and mundane after a while, you can't even get any decent browser options like Chrome, Firefox or even Opera for that matter. Instead, what you end up finding are a bunch of knock-off applications written by little-known dev companies or freelance programmers with all sorts of Chinese, Indian or Russian sounding names that are garbage and do who-knows-what in the background.
I could go on, but suffice it to say, this will likely be my last Windows Phone purchase. The WP8 gui looks decent and is snappy and smooth but beyond that, it doesn't do a whole lot.

really i am in the other site i dont like the sandbox of windows mobile 8 i came to windows mobile from somewhat more easily customized oses symbian and android.
as of now i am going back to android
i ve had a nexus 4 and i had no lag
also an os that doesnt let you do anything with it is not really working as a smartphone at least ios has been jailbroken for a while and some things can be used as they should have been used .
in my opinion windows mobile must rid of locks on it.it is sure that if it doesnt let you do anything it would be lag free but what is the gain then?.
and by that i say that i may come back when a jailbreak is near my phone (ascend w1)....

ericdude said:
I made the mistake of getting a WP8 phone after being an Android fan for some time. I currently own a Nokia Lumia WP8, an iPhone 5 for work and the Galaxy S and Galaxy S2 in a drawer at the house.
No phone is perfect, Android has it's share of issues, as does iOS as does WP8. It's just that Android and iPhone can at least do the things they do and do it well. WP8 still doesn't have a decent facebook app or decent map app, the data speeds are significantly slower than other android/ios phones that are on the same network....
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Click to collapse
I would disagree with most of this except push notifications . I have done a few data speed tests because I was suspicious that the One was actually slower but apps like speedtest reflected comparable results for my wife's Lumia 920 vs. my One. Nokia's Maps are really nice, better experience than Apples but I do like Google's offering the best. More points:
Battery: My phone is off the charger at 7 a.m. and back on at 10 p.m. I operate a small business so tons of talk time tons of navigation, I notice no difference in battery performance from my 920 to the One
OS Customizing: Don't really care about this but its true. I have tried 10 to 15 launchers and God knows how many Rom's trying to customize an experience that Android can't deliver. I like the WP OS and really have no desire to make any changes to it with the exception of a few features I would like MS to add.
Apps - I think I already addressed this
Browser - I would go heads up with any browser vs. IE 10 mobile. To say its not decent is just old school MS bash talk to me. Its fast & fluid like everything built in to the OS
But, I defend Windows Phone because I like it and feel like the experience it offers is superior to what I get from Android. You obviously feel the same about Android. I'm only writing this because I think people can tell when someone thinks the way they do, so for people who think like I do and love the Windows Phone OS, my advice is that you stay put unless you can afford to play around with competing devices.
BTW I bashed Android without pointing out what I love about Windows Phone:
People Hub – deep social integration with Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, Skype and offers superior groups and room’s options
Search – Instant results for local eating, shopping and events. Integrated music DNA search, integrated vision search supporting barcodes, QR, MS Tags, CD, DVD and book covers.
Groups – Offers users the ability to share group calendar, group OneNote notebook, group pictures and group chatting
Messaging – Facebook chat integration and integrated location sharing etc.
Dynamic Icons – Instead of a static image Live Tiles provide live updates and can be pinned in 3 different sizes
Deep App Pinning – Instead of just an eBay icon, users can pin an eBay item tile to the Start screen and view updated information right from that tile. Or, pin an actual TuneIn station.
Microsoft Office – Free and complete Microsoft Office mobile suite
Kid’s Corner – Cool to keep the kids in a sandbox
Online Backup – SkyDrive integration offers backup features for photos, instant photo upload, music, documents, phone app list and phone settings. The SkyDrive capabilities on Windows OS makes sharing and using data across smartphone and tablet or PC seamless and better than any competing option

jacktay94 said:
nahh, its just you.
Windows phone really look classy, and i like the feel. but with the limitation, it obviously show why the market share keeps dropping.
iOS-getting outdated. iOS 7 looks cool, but usability is so last decade
WP- classy, for non-tech people who is so lazy to make their phone look special
Android- too much customization, but everyone's device is unique. well except those non-techie again.
Ubuntu- cool, but still buggy.
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Click to collapse
Nah, it's not just me bud:
1) "my uptime is like 100 hrs, and no lag or bugs or anything like that" - Seriously!? You can keep your phone on for 4 whole days without bugs or anything! Bravo, thanks for making my point.
2) "what are you doing.. seriously? two questions. did you install porn? " I'm operating a small business. No porn and I didn't say I personally got a virus. I said the Android is the most susceptible and that I DID get data mined to a private work email that was never spammed in the 4 years since I created it. Until Android
3) I obviously agree.
4) "iTunes, seriously??" Yes seriously. For starters I purchase all of my music and iTunes has a massive catalogue. Also, this music is for me and my family. I have to send it to multiple devices (PC's and mobile devices) and multiple OS's. Android is the biggest problem child in that mix.
5) "touch responsiveness?" I have had 3 HTC Ones actually. Press a key on the keyboard and watch how long it takes the keyboard to respond. Then try it on a Windows Phone. Pretty clear
6) "custom roms are there for a reason" your reasons are nonsense. Here is a quote from the about of my favorite ROM "a stock ROM experience with the ability to choose the features and functions they want, demand performance and expect stability!" NOTE THE STABILITY AND PERFORMANCE PART
7) "Communication app problem? its coz ur used to ur WP." No it's not. I think the iOS communications suite is superior as well.
8) "music app really kinda sucks tho, i just stream." I do that too but I have a massive music collection I love to listen too
Bottom line is that I just don't like Android. I know that there are a lot of people who Android works well for I mean them no disrespect. I am not trying to talk them in to moving to my favorite OS and would never do that. I am sharing my experience for people who like the same kinds of thins I do and thought about trying the competition, even though they like Windows Phone. Many would be disappointed and for them, I say don't waste your time or money

TechJunkiesCA said:
Nah, it's not just me bud:
1) "my uptime is like 100 hrs, and no lag or bugs or anything like that" - Seriously!? You can keep your phone on for 4 whole days without bugs or anything! Bravo, thanks for making my point.
2) "what are you doing.. seriously? two questions. did you install porn? " I'm operating a small business. No porn and I didn't say I personally got a virus. I said the Android is the most susceptible and that I DID get data mined to a private work email that was never spammed in the 4 years since I created it. Until Android
3) I obviously agree.
4) "iTunes, seriously??" Yes seriously. For starters I purchase all of my music and iTunes has a massive catalogue. Also, this music is for me and my family. I have to send it to multiple devices (PC's and mobile devices) and multiple OS's. Android is the biggest problem child in that mix.
5) "touch responsiveness?" I have had 3 HTC Ones actually. Press a key on the keyboard and watch how long it takes the keyboard to respond. Then try it on a Windows Phone. Pretty clear
6) "custom roms are there for a reason" your reasons are nonsense. Here is a quote from the about of my favorite ROM "a stock ROM experience with the ability to choose the features and functions they want, demand performance and expect stability!" NOTE THE STABILITY AND PERFORMANCE PART
7) "Communication app problem? its coz ur used to ur WP." No it's not. I think the iOS communications suite is superior as well.
8) "music app really kinda sucks tho, i just stream." I do that too but I have a massive music collection I love to listen too
Bottom line is that I just don't like Android. I know that there are a lot of people who Android works well for I mean them no disrespect. I am not trying to talk them in to moving to my favorite OS and would never do that. I am sharing my experience for people who like the same kinds of thins I do and thought about trying the competition, even though they like Windows Phone. Many would be disappointed and for them, I say don't waste your time or money
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Click to collapse
1) yupp, i just switched my phone off ystd, coz i changed the battery. after like one whole week of being on.
2)You probably registered your email in some website tho. Android didn't give me spam
3) yeahh
4) dont you find it a hassle when you sync ur family members playlist when u just wanna charge your ipod? your from the states, so i understand, coz we in malaysia dun buy much music, especially on itunes. hehe wat i do is just copy+paste, no need to complicate things, back to basics.
5) hmmm, i probably need to post a video of me typing then. hahaha! but really, was it on custom rom?
6) the most stable rom: vanilla, pure android is most stable man. performance is overclocking, google wont endorse that.
7) coz both are simple. too simple. hahaha!
8) like play music app, whole library free for a month, wat other collection do you want?
nahh, just making conversation. planning to get a lumnia 600+ series as a for fun phone, just wanna check out the real feel of using WP, when i get the budget. hehe

I have both Android and WP. What I like in Android is that I can do pretty much anything with it like on a PC, but that's where it stops. I have a Samsung Galaxy S which is a pretty old phone and I have a custom rom with Android 4.2 on it. The phone came with android 2.3 and Samsung just decided it did not have enough RAM to run 4.x well and stopped updating it. Well, it is much less laggy on the custom ROM with 4.x than the stock ROM with 2.x. I would never trust an Android device as a phone, it just is too crashy and buggy OS to do anything important. With the stock ROM it rebooted many times when I tried to answer a call etc, and web browsing exprience just sucks. This has to do with the low memory but 512MB should be enough for a phone. When I browse the web on Android, other apps that run in the background get killed and eventually the browser stops working too (Just like on good old Symbian ). My WP7 (Samsung Omnia 7) has nearly identical specs and I have no memory problems, I have several hundred megabytes of free RAM no matter what I do and browsing is very smooth. Also it's annoying when you need to take a quick pic of something important and the Camera app crashes on Android... One thing Android does better than WP is scrolling long lists - it takes ages to scroll a long list on WP, but on Android the scrolling accelerates when you scroll..

OP keeping WP circlejerk alive as always

Taurenking said:
OP keeping WP circlejerk alive as always
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Click to collapse
Seriously? Grow up
Edit - and go away. This is a WP thread. Why droid people are here making negative comments never ceases to amaze me. I don't read your threads let alone comment in them.

ericdude said:
I made the mistake of getting a WP8 phone after being an Android fan for some time. I currently own a Nokia Lumia WP8, an iPhone 5 for work and the Galaxy S and Galaxy S2 in a drawer at the house.
No phone is perfect, Android has it's share of issues, as does iOS as does WP8. It's just that Android and iPhone can at least do the things they do and do it well. WP8 still doesn't have a decent facebook app or decent map app, the data speeds are significantly slower than other android/ios phones that are on the same network, push notifications sometimes don't come through until far after the notification was originally pushed. Battery life is sub-par, little customization of the OS, even the larger and more popular applications that actually do manage to make it to WP8 end up having their gui re-written and tailored to look like the rest of WP8 which actually becomes pretty boring and mundane after a while, you can't even get any decent browser options like Chrome, Firefox or even Opera for that matter. Instead, what you end up finding are a bunch of knock-off applications written by little-known dev companies or freelance programmers with all sorts of Chinese, Indian or Russian sounding names that are garbage and do who-knows-what in the background.
I could go on, but suffice it to say, this will likely be my last Windows Phone purchase. The WP8 gui looks decent and is snappy and smooth but beyond that, it doesn't do a whole lot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't really care about a "decent" FB app so I'll give you that one. But if you think that Google Maps is anywhere as good as Here, you have no idea what a good map app is. Or maybe you don't have a Lumia. Nokia's mapping software is going to be the industry standard soon now that it's available for iOS. You know those fanboys are having a hard time without a usable map app.
MS Office + SkyDrive - 'nuff said.
People Hub - only webOS Synergy was better
Nokia Cinemagraph - best stock animation and GIF creator
The fact that WP8 can be as fluid and lag-free as any other OS without needing 20 cores and 4 GB of RAM speaks volumes about the OS itself. PalmOS was probably the only other OS that was as resource-friendly as WP, Symbian a close second.
I don't dislike Android, or iOS for that matter, I just find WP8 to be the best all-around combination of phone and OS. MS has stringent rules about how their OS is to be presented and that might not be such a bad thing.

Windows phone 8 isn't windows mobile. They're two different os.
Sent from my Nokia 521 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Taurenking said:
OP keeping WP circlejerk alive as always
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Click to collapse
Ahh look I'm blushing! Hey, trolling forums of devices or operating systems you don't use speaks volumes of how engaging your platform must be, not to mention your personal life. Hope things pick up for you!

I'm considering getting a lumia 925 or 1020 to replace my HTC One. I've become bored with android and ios. What're everyone's thoughts and anything I should know before making the switch?
Sent from my HTC_PN071 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Amrut223 said:
I'm considering getting a lumia 925 or 1020 to replace my HTC One. I've become bored with android and ios. What're everyone's thoughts and anything I should know before making the switch?
Sent from my HTC_PN071 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wait for the snapdragon 800 nokia phone if you can; if you're gonna buy an old phone instead of a new one, make sure you don't have a not for resale phone(demo unit).
Many apps won't work, you'll have to make do for a while... what is your typical phone use?

Why wait for the new soc. From what I've been reading wp runs smooth on almost anything. I have no interest in benchmark scores. I simply want to get decent battery life.
Speaking of which. How does the lumia 925 hold up in that respect?? Reviews seem to have mixed feelings about it.
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