Database Users

Issue with Multitasking on Nexus One

I've noticed a serious problem with the way android handles multitasking, at least for me. if I am using opera mini browsing, and I switch to the built in browser and go to a bookmark and load a page, now when I'm done and I go back to opera mini it starts a brand new session of opera. I've lost my page that I had open.
my free RAM during this is around 35 mb. this is why I think we should have control over what runs in the background rather than the OS just loading up everything and deciding for us. I don't have any services or anything running during this time, and I'm on the stock ROM. anyone else experienced this? anyone think this is a serious usability issue?
I've been testing this every which way, using either the home button to switch or long pressing home button to switch, and every single time opera closes.
my current free

No, that is just the way opera was made.

Why blame the os its the app...

Yep, its only Opera. I don't use it anyways, but when I did - I do remember this issue, well I guess its an issue..

its not opera because this issue doesn't happen if you do not go to the bookmarks of the default browser. go ahead and try it out. I can go open 10 other apps and multi task, and I can still return to opera mini on the same page I left it at. its most certainly not a problem with opera mini. It's a problem with the way the OS handles certain events giving them priorities over others, I.e. default browser bookmarks gets some higher priority. so again if we had the ability to actually control what we want to run, it would be better.
Sent from my Nexus One using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk

Wait a second, my Opera stays on the same page I left off on, even if I plenty of other applications open. A lot.. Maybe cause I'm rooted, and I have more RAM at the time? I am also using Dolphin, and the default.. and it still is leaving off at the same page.

RogerPodacter said:
my free RAM during this is around 35 mb.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This sounds fairly low.
How many apps do you have?
Are you rooted / using a custom rom?

Paul22000 said:
This sounds fairly low.
How many apps do you have?
Are you rooted / using a custom rom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He said he is using the stock ROM in the first post. :/

Eclair~ said:
He said he is using the stock ROM in the first post. :/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Woops, missed that somehow.
Well... There's the problem haha!

ok maybe I jumped the gun, because I closed all my apps in one swoop and still only had 30 mb free RAM. so I did a reboot and now my opera mini does not close no matter what I do.
that's strange though, I guess its good to reboot once in a while as something ate up all my RAM. it was at the point where I closed every service and every app with a task manager, and still had barely any ram. my bad guys.
Sent from my Nexus One using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk

RogerPodacter said:
that's strange though, I guess its good to reboot once in a while as something ate up all my RAM. it was at the point where I closed every service and every app with a task manager, and still had barely any ram. my bad guys.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not your bad, Opera's bad. They should do a better job of saving application state so that when the OS shuts it down it doesn't cause you to lose the page you were on.

OK i'm having this same exact problem again. All day yesterday i was browsing with opera mini, press home button to perform other tasks, and come back and it is still showing the same web page i was reading.
but then last night all i had to do was check my email real quick, i switch away from opera with the home button press, and go back to opera and it now has to re-load the entire app, taking me to the start page again. surely this is some problem with the way android OS handles multitasking, no? i mean the app obviously was saving my page all day yesterday, just like its supposed to. but then it suddenly STOPS doing this.
my free RAM was again down near 30MB because the OS has loaded a million apps that i dont need. yet the OS then will close the one app i DO need, opera mini, while leaving all these useless apps running, which i didnt even ever need or open in the first place!!
am i the only one who has a problem with this method of OS task management?
i'm sure a reboot will free up all the RAM and things will work normally again. but isnt android a linux based OS? shouldnt linux be able to run for days or even weeks without the need to reboot the phone just to set the RAM back on track?
very frustrated!

If you have a mirror handy, kindly gaze into it and you will find your problem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFytHoXdG3E
lol

RogerPodacter said:
surely this is some problem with the way android OS handles multitasking, no?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No.
Again, this isn't a problem with Androids method of multitasking, it's a problem with the way Opera was written. It's not saving it's state properly. It should, but they haven't written it properly.
Opera obviously doesn't behave the way you expect, so my suggestion is to use something else until they have fixed it.

I just can't get on board with that argument. so the OS is giving priority to apps like tuneWiki, which I haven't opened in 3 weeks, over an app that I just switched away from 10 seconds ago is the best way for the OS to operate?
I would agree if my issue happened every single time. but 95% of the time opera stays open like its supposed to. so that tells me it IS doing what its supposed to. but in certain situations it just magically disappears even though it was just in use a few moments before.
I agree that opera is not saving state properly when the OS decides to close it. but why can't the OS leave it open with all the RAM and CPU power this phone has? this situation shouldn't even be happening whether opera is coded right or not.
I made a post on the opera forums to see if maybe they know about it and have a solution.

RogerPodacter said:
I just can't get on board with that argument. so the OS is giving priority to apps like tuneWiki, which I haven't opened in 3 weeks, over an app that I just switched away from 10 seconds ago is the best way for the OS to operate?
I would agree if my issue happened every single time. but 95% of the time opera stays open like its supposed to. so that tells me it IS doing what its supposed to. but in certain situations it just magically disappears even though it was just in use a few moments before.
I agree that opera is not saving state properly when the OS decides to close it. but why can't the OS leave it open with all the RAM and CPU power this phone has? this situation shouldn't even be happening whether opera is coded right or not.
I made a post on the opera forums to see if maybe they know about it and have a solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure you're understanding what everyone else in this thread is saying, so here's another way to think about it:
Can you name another big-name app that behaves in the same constant state-losing behavior as Opera?

RogerPodacter said:
so the OS is giving priority to apps like tuneWiki, which I haven't opened in 3 weeks, over an app that I just switched away from 10 seconds ago is the best way for the OS to operate?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The fact that it feels like tuneWiki hasn't been closed even though you haven't used it in 3 weeks lead me to believe that the tuneWiki guys have done it correctly and as a result the user can't tell if the app has been running the whole time or if it is actually loading up a fresh copy of it (loading speed might be the only way to tell). Opera with tabs open probably uses a lot more memory than most programs, so it's a good candidate to close down when memory is needed which is probably why it keeps happening to you.
What Opera should be doing is taking a snapshot of the tabs you have open when you switch to a different applications and writing it to permanent storage so that if it does happen that it get's closed down by the system, when it starts up again later it can reload all of the tabs. It doesn't need to store the page data, just the URLs. I don't know why they don't do that for Opera Mini as their desktop browser does it perfectly.
If you are interested, this developer video on Android application lifecyle might clear things up a bit:
http://developer.android.com/videos/index.html#v=fL6gSd4ugSI

Send Opera an email and tell them to use meta data to remember where you were.
RogerPodacter said:
I just can't get on board with that argument. so the OS is giving priority to apps like tuneWiki, which I haven't opened in 3 weeks, over an app that I just switched away from 10 seconds ago is the best way for the OS to operate?
I would agree if my issue happened every single time. but 95% of the time opera stays open like its supposed to. so that tells me it IS doing what its supposed to. but in certain situations it just magically disappears even though it was just in use a few moments before.
I agree that opera is not saving state properly when the OS decides to close it. but why can't the OS leave it open with all the RAM and CPU power this phone has? this situation shouldn't even be happening whether opera is coded right or not.
I made a post on the opera forums to see if maybe they know about it and have a solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Each properly coded app speaks up and says "I Have _____displaying on screen, I have ____data on hand and I'm doing______".
If the OS says "sorry bud, you gotta go away cause the guy that's always fondling me(you the user) needs to do something else, go away" then that program is killed and that information saved.
Next time you open up your app, the OS asks "alright, I just got finished showing this guy settings, now he needs you again, do you remember where you were when I sent you away?"
If yes, then boom, you are back to where you were. If not then, your app goes back to square one.
Seems opera mini isn't properly implementing their save states. It's an issue with the application not the OS.

RogerPodacter said:
I just can't get on board with that argument.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
YOU MUST UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS OPERA'S FAULT. THE DEVELOPERS DID NOT PROPERLY WRITE THE PROGRAM TO SAVE CURRENT STATE. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANDROID OS
RogerPodacter said:
I've noticed a serious problem with the way android handles multitasking, at least for me. if I am using opera mini browsing, and I switch to the built in browser and go to a bookmark and load a page, now when I'm done and I go back to opera mini it starts a brand new session of opera. I've lost my page that I had open.
my free RAM during this is around 35 mb. this is why I think we should have control over what runs in the background rather than the OS just loading up everything and deciding for us. I don't have any services or anything running during this time, and I'm on the stock ROM. anyone else experienced this? anyone think this is a serious usability issue?
I've been testing this every which way, using either the home button to switch or long pressing home button to switch, and every single time opera closes.
my current free
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is already an issue that has been brought up in a previous post. They came to the conclusion that it was the app, and in all common sense, it is the app. There is no reason to blame the OS, that is Android. Might i recommend rooting your phone and uploading a fine ROM like CyanogenMOD? I think it would be on your best interest to do so.

so the OS is giving priority to apps like tuneWiki, which I haven't opened in 3 weeks, over an app that I just switched away from 10 seconds ago is th
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The fact that it feels like tuneWiki hasn't been closed even though you haven't used it in 3 weeks lead me to believe that the tuneWiki guys have done it correctly and as a result the user can't tell if the app has been running the whole time or if it is actually loading up a fresh copy of it (loading speed might be the only way to tell). Opera with tabs open probably uses a lot more memory than most programs, so it's a good candidate to close down when memory is needed which is probably why it keeps happening to you.
What Opera should be doing is taking a snapshot of the tabs you have open when you switch to a different applications and writing it to permanent storage so that if it does happen that it get's closed down by the system, when it starts up again later it can reload all of the tabs. It doesn't need to store the page data, just the URLs. I don't know why they don't do that for Opera Mini as their desktop browser does it perfectly.
If you are interested, this developer video on Android application lifecyle might clear things up a bit:
http://developer.android.com/videos/index.html#v=fL6gSd4ugSI
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just to be clear I literally haven't opened tuneWiki in 3 weeks, and have done many reboots since then. it was just an example of one of the many apps I see running in the background, which I've never opened in weeks, yet the one I just used is the first to close.
to the other replies, I'm not confused and understand what's going on. I just think its a major flaw whether opera is saving state correctly or not.
9 out of 10 times I can switch away, do my tasks, come back and opera is still there where I was browsing. I just don't like the inconsistency. I feel like I have nocontrol over what and how I want my apps to run.
also if opera mini DID have to save my tabs and reload them, then that would be horrible as it takes certain time to get the proxy server going and then reload the pages. the current method where It's just instantly there, still in memory, is the best way for it to happen. and it DOES work this way majority of the time.

Multi-tasking in Android 2.1

Is Multi-tasking currently supported in 2.1? I get this doubt because everytime I open a new application the previous goes hidden. This apparently takes up or keeps eating the resources in the background.
Instead, if 2.2 (froyo) comes up with something like the iPhone 4 handles it will be simply superb. I know even now there are add ins from the market, still they are not easy and friendly as iPhone 4 handles multi-tasking - where we can simply scroll through the application and open or close or minimise the different applications that are already open.
Please someone confirm this...or am I missing something until android 2.2 comes out.

Your right... whenever I am running an application and I press the menu button then start another application, I can see the old application running in the Services (or background).
When I quit the new application and go back to the former app, it shows me where I left off... Now, this is "technically" multi-tasking but of the sucky kind...

To minimize just press the homebutten. To switch between the last 6 task just press the homebuton for about 1 second.

In 2.1, you still long press the home key to show the most recently run applications. This is not necessary the running application. You could have manually closed an application but it will still be shown. Similarly, you could have application actually running and yet not shown there.
Another point to be aware is that although long press of home key brings up the most recently used application and allows you to jump to them, there is no facility to force close an application from there; unlike in iOS4, where on the multitasking application dock, you can force close it, as well as jumping to that application.
Another key difference between the two is that in Android 2.1, only the last 6 used applications are shown, although most of the time, I find 20+ applications running, often started by themselves mysteriously (that's another story though). So, for the running application not listed as one of the six, you can't jump to them via long pressing home. Instead, you have to go back to the desktop, find your application, and launch the application in order to switch to them.
So yah, 2.1 is a little "backward" still compared to iOS4. Hopefully 2.2 improves on this.

As far as I know the multitasking from android is better than the one in iOS4. Multitasking is not complete on iOS4, there are some applications that you are not available to use as multitasking application.
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/04/multitasking-android-way.html
Here is the link to why and how the android multitasking works.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/199528/multitasking_with_ios_4_is_horrible_apple_blew_it.html
Here an article of PCWORLD giving negative feedback about iOS4 multitasking

eaglesteve said:
In 2.1, you still long press the home key to show the most recently run applications. This is not necessary the running application. You could have manually closed an application but it will still be shown. Similarly, you could have application actually running and yet not shown there.
Another point to be aware is that although long press of home key brings up the most recently used application and allows you to jump to them, there is no facility to force close an application from there; unlike in iOS4, where on the multitasking application dock, you can force close it, as well as jumping to that application.
Another key difference between the two is that in Android 2.1, only the last 6 used applications are shown, although most of the time, I find 20+ applications running, often started by themselves mysteriously (that's another story though). So, for the running application not listed as one of the six, you can't jump to them via long pressing home. Instead, you have to go back to the desktop, find your application, and launch the application in order to switch to them.
So yah, 2.1 is a little "backward" still compared to iOS4. Hopefully 2.2 improves on this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
..now that's one place where we look ancient than iOS4, are there any words that this will be improved in 2.2?
Instead it could have just been without multi-tasking so when we start a new app the previous one to get closed atleast that saves on the RAM. I hate iPhones but just this feature makes me disturbed why android hasn't dones this yet as this is so very basic.
I know the third part app in the adroid market does this but not as elegant as the iphone 4 handles this.

sany said:
..now that's one place where we look ancient than iOS4, are there any words that this will be improved in 2.2?
Instead it could have just been without multi-tasking so when we start a new app the previous one to get closed atleast that saves on the RAM. I hate iPhones but just this feature makes me disturbed why android hasn't dones this yet as this is so very basic.
I know the third part app in the adroid market does this but not as elegant as the iphone 4 handles this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, the way iOS4 handles it is not even half as elegant as the way jailbroken phones do it. It is even better to disable iOS4 task switcher and use Cydia task switchers (there are 5 or 6 different method, you pick the one that you like most). If I'm the developer at Google, I'd copy jailbroken iPhone's switcher called the Circuitous. With it, you can swipe the task bar left or right to go to the previous or next active application!!! You can also double press the home key for example to show a list of task actually running (rather than most recently launched applications). You press home key to truly quite the application, and long press to make it run in the background while in both case show the desktop.
I personally don't like the task switcher in iOS4. It does not let me force close the application with the same act of quiting it. Instead, one has to bring up the task list and remove it there in order to force close. This is not productive. Also, very often I toggle betwen two or three application, and I find swiping the taskbar to be a lot more fun and productive.

How do I know if there's programs running in the background or not?
And how do I shut down programs where I can't find any Quit button (mostly of the programs I think is like this).

Chrilleee said:
How do I know if there's programs running in the background or not?
And how do I shut down programs where I can't find any Quit button (mostly of the programs I think is like this).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung's stock widget will tell you if anything is "running" other things will be idling that the widget may or may not pick up on. You can pick up a 3rd party task killer to see more details.
3rd party task killers would be one way to quit the programs after closing. The way Android operates, if you hit the "back" button out of your program it quits running but will stay in memory if there is available room in your memory.

Actually the Android 'idea' is that you don't close applications. Android will keep applications around in case you want to go back, and only close them when memory is needed. Before closing them outright it will try to close secondary activities and recover memory elsewhere, so that closing an app is the last resort.
Android applications are explicitly organized in autonomous activities so that they can be stopped independently.
Keep in mind that the fact that an application is 'in background' does not mean that it is actually doing something, and empty memory does you no good unless it's actually needed, so it might as well be used to keep an application loaded.
Only applications that stay active in background have a quit button, like IM clients for example. The others don't have it because ideally you don't need to close them. Of course when the system does need to free memory you might experience some delay as applications are closed.
On the iPhone OS there is a similar model, with the difference that applications don't have 'activities' that can be independently closed. In case of memory starvation the OS first asks applications to free some memory, if possible, then starts killing them outright, but it has no means to force applications to free memory.
I stopped using task killers and found that they are not that needed unless you really can't stand small delays now and then. I didn't find the iPhone multitasking any friendlier at all...

eaglesteve said:
Actually, the way iOS4 handles it is not even half as elegant as the way jailbroken phones do it. It is even better to disable iOS4 task switcher and use Cydia task switchers (there are 5 or 6 different method, you pick the one that you like most). If I'm the developer at Google, I'd copy jailbroken iPhone's switcher called the Circuitous. With it, you can swipe the task bar left or right to go to the previous or next active application!!! You can also double press the home key for example to show a list of task actually running (rather than most recently launched applications). You press home key to truly quite the application, and long press to make it run in the background while in both case show the desktop.
I personally don't like the task switcher in iOS4. It does not let me force close the application with the same act of quiting it. Instead, one has to bring up the task list and remove it there in order to force close. This is not productive. Also, very often I toggle betwen two or three application, and I find swiping the taskbar to be a lot more fun and productive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is there anything similar to Circuitous available in the market for use.
thanks
S

I really do not understand how people say that iOs 4 is better in multitasking than 2.1 android. I've used the "multitasking" feature of iPhone and it is for sure not multitasking. It behaves as it should only for native apps and I believe it will not finally work for every application of the appstore.
On the other hand, multitasking on android is better. Every app you choose to re-start comes at the state you left it. Not on the first screen. Of course there is a lot of room for development, but it actually is multitasking and not multitasking in quotes.
P.S. I kind of laugh with Jobs's enthusiasm for things that already exist in the market even for years (for example videocall). It is like they invented something revolutionary and actually there are many people who totally fall for all these...
Uneducated sheep...

darnap; said:
On the iPhone OS there is a similar model, with the difference that applications don't have 'activities' that can be independently closed. In case of memory starvation the OS first asks applications to free some memory, if possible, then starts killing them outright, but it has no means to force applications to free memory.
I stopped using task killers and found that they are not that needed unless you really can't stand small delays now and then. I didn't find the iPhone multitasking any friendlier at all...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Damap,
In both iOS 4 and jailbroken iPhone running backgrounded, any activities other than the telephone application can be manually closed rather then left running in the background, in order to free up memory.
I don't know about the other Android phones but I find SGS unbearably slow, whether if I do not use task killer to manually kill off the application every now and then. Not sure how much of it is due to the way Android multitask though.

ivas75 said:
I really do not understand how people say that iOs 4 is better in multitasking than 2.1 android. I've used the "multitasking" feature of iPhone and it is for sure not multitasking. It behaves as it should only for native apps and I believe it will not finally work for every application of the appstore.
On the other hand, multitasking on android is better. Every app you choose to re-start comes at the state you left it. Not on the first screen. Of course there is a lot of room for development, but it actually is multitasking and not multitasking in quotes.
P.S. I kind of laugh with Jobs's enthusiasm for things that already exist in the market even for years (for example videocall). It is like they invented something revolutionary and actually there are many people who totally fall for all these...
Uneducated sheep...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is some important points to be aware of, and most iPhone users are not aware of these points:
- If you want "true" multitasking, you must jailbreak and use backgrounder. All third party applications could then multitask. However, even that will not have two applications with audio running simultaneously. So, you can't have radio and music playing at the same time. The one in the background must pause.
- To be eligible for multitasking under iOS4 third party applications must specifically enable so. If not, you can only multitask them with jail breaking.
- if an application has been enabled for multitasking under iOS4, then backgrounder application in a jailbroken phone offers the option of letting user select the method of multitasking. The choices are to either multitask this application the "true" way as it always did prior to iOS4, or the iOS4 way (which means you don't start your applications from the beginning, but when in background, only certain processes such as GPS, VOIP, downloading, audio are running), or to automatically select the method, which means that if the application has been enabled for iOS4 multitasking then that mode will be used, otherwise it will multitask the "true" way.

sany; said:
Is there anything similar to Circuitous available in the market for use.
thanks
S
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry I'm not aware of such customization possibility yet. But i would like to request for such tools so that multitasking in Android can be more easily performed. One thing about using back button for quitting application is that I find it goes to a different screen of the same application rather than the previous application, so it can be confusing. Sometime back button merely get rid of a pop up message but does not seem to quit the application.

You can't really get more simple than the os doing everything for you though. The point with android is you don't think about things like multi-tasking and just use your phone. Can't get more simple and elegant than that.
There is no need for a task manager like ios as you just open the apps you want without worrying about closing apps, or what's open and what's not.
ios on the other hand uses sudo multi-tasking, the apps don't actually stay open. I'm sure this works well but it has it's limitations. So when you close an app in ios task manager, you are not actually closing the app as it is already closed, essentialy you are just removing the icon from the drawer.
Android's system is far better. Why have a task manager when you don't need one, and especially when you only use sudo multi-tasking so the apps in the task manager are not even open at all.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App

bushbox browser said:
You can't really get more simple than the os doing everything for you though. The point with android is you don't think about things like multi-tasking and just use your phone. Can't get more simple and elegant than that.There is no need for a task manager like ios as you just open the apps you want without worrying about closing apps, or what's open and what's not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both Android and iOS4 are exactly the same in saying that nobody shoud have to manually close an application. Both advocates that you let the OS close it when resources are insufficient. For iOS4, most of the application merely save the state where you left off, so it is not actually active, but with some exceptions: GPS, VOIP, audio playing, downloading, etc.
However, I personally do not find it to my liking. If I've been using say TomTom navigation software and have just completed a trip, and know that I wont be using it again in the next few days, I would rather be able to long press the home key to completely stop it, instead of just pressing the home key to keep it running in the background.
bushbox browser said:
So when you close an app in ios task manager, you are not actually closing the app as it is already closed, essentialy you are just removing the icon from the drawer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
bushbox browser, this is not how it works, based on what I was told. If you have removed the icon from the multitasking dock, then come back to launch the application, it will start from the beginning rather than where you last left of. This was a question that I asked and was told the answer. Therefore, it is capable of stopping the task from running there, not merely removing the icon from the drawer.
Hope that helps to clear up the misconception.

eaglesteve said:
Both Android and iOS4 are exactly the same in saying that nobody shoud have to manually close an application. Both advocates that you let the OS close it when resources are insufficient. For iOS4, most of the application merely save the state where you left off, so it is not actually active, but with some exceptions: GPS, VOIP, audio playing, downloading, etc.
However, I personally do not find it to my liking. If I've been using say TomTom navigation software and have just completed a trip, and know that I wont be using it again in the next few days, I would rather be able to long press the home key to completely stop it, instead of just pressing the home key to keep it running in the background.
bushbox browser, this is not how it works, based on what I was told. If you have removed the icon from the multitasking dock, then come back to launch the application, it will start from the beginning rather than where you last left of. This was a question that I asked and was told the answer. Therefore, it is capable of stopping the task from running there, not merely removing the icon from the drawer.
Hope that helps to clear up the misconception.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks all, it is really comforting enough to see comments from knowledgeable people in the forum who are really researching with the apps and how they work.
My only concern is that nothing in the background should slowdown the performance by hogging the resource. As long as it is taken care off that is fine.

sany said:
thanks all, it is really comforting enough to see comments from knowledgeable people in the forum who are really researching with the apps and how they work.
My only concern is that nothing in the background should slowdown the performance by hogging the resource. As long as it is taken care off that is fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My concern is the same as yours too. Unfortunately, I'm personally of the view that allowing so many applicaitons to be kept alive DO hog resources and slow things down. Therefore I'm using the task killer on my SGS to manage it. I'm using a task killer that also kill itself after killing off the unwanted task, so that itself would not be taking more resources (or at least that's how I hope would turn out).
Then the other aspect of multitasking is the user interface or how we effect:
- showing all live applications (not just most recent 6 applications), to swith there. As I said, I've notice that on my SGS, if left alone, typically have 20 to 30 applications live. The long press of the home button showing just 6 of them is not exactly a workable way to switch, is it?
- then, there is an issue of being given the freedom to truely quit an application rather than minimise it to the background, and here Android's as well as iOS4's design leaves much to be desired IMO. They both need to learn from jailbroken iPhone's backgrounder.
- finally, I believe Android as an OS could improve by having a true task manager showing applications which are truely alive, thus allowing switching to them, as well as allowing quitting of the listed applications. Yes, if user want to let the OS manage it they could just leave the list alone and not quit it, but freedom should be given to users to do so.
That's the reason I much prefer the jailbroken iPhone's method of multitasking (especially when using the Circuitous method of task switching) over iOS4 as well as Android's.

This is like a neverending story, when I had WM phone everybody was b*tching about the way he have to go to task manager and close apps and always look for tha apps that are running. Now I have android which is doing everything on its own, u dont have to care about running apps and now is everybody dreaming about iPhonish multitasking. Did I land on Mars here?

[Q] Multitasking questions

I have some questions re: multitasking. My understanding of the way that honeycomb works is that apps usually don't close when you exit them. They stay open until you use them again, or until honeycomb needs more memory, at which point it starts closing background apps. Is this accurate?
What puzzles me is that, if I have several apps open, some of which I want to keep running and some I don't mind if they get killed, when honeycomb needs memory it will just randomly kill apps?
This seems inefficient to me. Why doesn't it allow me to kill apps that I don't want and only "minimize" apps that I want to keep open? This seems inefficient but maybe I am missing something.

Most apps don't use any processing power when In the background, just ram. U could use a task killer however, it will probably just kill more battery life then it saves. Do u have performance issues when running lots of tasks? Ifso, THEN use a task killer to find out what is using up the processing performance and uninstall/stop the app.
(Using a task killer is NOT recommended)
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I hear you. I think multitasking in Android (not just honeycomb) is an illusion. The new 3.1 "recent apps list" is just that... recent apps, it reopens apps you used, but as far as multitasking goes, it happens very rarely.
I'd love to be able to lock my browser into memory so it doesn't have to reload all the pages when I get back into it. I was filling out an online form and needed to get an order number from my gmail app... well, when I went back into the browser, it reloaded everything and I lost what I had filled - this is not multitasking.
I think the only true multitasking mobile os was windows mobile 6.5.
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Dyskmaster said:
Most apps don't use any processing power when In the background, just ram.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess when apps are kept in RAM is isn't a big deal. After all, we have a whopping 1 gig to play with right? Who could ever use up that much?

EP2008 said:
I'd love to be able to lock my browser into memory so it doesn't have to reload all the pages when I get back into it. I was filling out an online form and needed to get an order number from my gmail app... well, when I went back into the browser, it reloaded everything and I lost what I had filled - this is not multitasking[\QUOTE]
It's a bug in the browser then. It should remember all you wrote even if it was closed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Magnesus said:
EP2008 said:
I'd love to be able to lock my browser into memory so it doesn't have to reload all the pages when I get back into it. I was filling out an online form and needed to get an order number from my gmail app... well, when I went back into the browser, it reloaded everything and I lost what I had filled - this is not multitasking[\QUOTE]
It's a bug in the browser then. It should remember all you wrote even if it was closed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Technically, if it was truly multitasking (as in keeping the browser running while doing another task), then it should have just resumed. This happens on all browsers, but not all the time, only when Android decides to kick it out of memory.
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse

By far the best multitasking mobile OS is webOS. If a card is open and is anything other than a video, then it's running in the background unless the developer specifically codes it to suspend. Since I switched to Android, this is the one thing I miss the most about webOS.
For me, the only problem with how Android multitasks is with Quickoffice and Polaris Office. Try this: create a new document, add some text, and then start switching back and forth between it and other apps. Eventually (sometimes immediately) you'll return to a blank document, with no way to retrieve any edits. It's the same for a document that's been saved, and really limits how an Android device can be used to write long-form pieces while doing other things. Basically, you have to save every time before you switch to a different app (say, to look up some research).
In webOS, you'd just keep the card open and your document would be retained. And note: I'm not here to bash Android or glorify webOS. I did switch, after all. But man, either developers or Google have to fix this. At the very least, an app like Quickoffice should save its state when it's suspended, to include the currently open document. It doesn't actually have to run in the background, but it certainly shouldn't lose information.
Given how I'm using the Transformer, this a huge thing for me. I wouldn't switch to, say, the Touchpad, because webOS doesn't even have apps like this yet and probably won't for awhile. It might have Quickoffice sometime in the next few months, but that's about it. Oh, and the Touchpad is a weak tablet as well, and certainly doesn't have anything like the keyboard dock available. It's just that Google and the Android development community could learn a thing or two from webOS, starting with better multitasking support.
Okay, venting over. I feel much better now.
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wynand32 said:
By far the best multitasking mobile OS is webOS. If a card is open and is anything other than a video, then it's running in the background unless the developer specifically codes it to suspend. Since I switched to Android, this is the one thing I miss the most about webOS.
For me, the only problem with how Android multitasks is with Quickoffice and Polaris Office. Try this: create a new document, add some text, and then start switching back and forth between it and other apps. Eventually (sometimes immediately) you'll return to a blank document, with no way to retrieve any edits. It's the same for a document that's been saved, and really limits how an Android device can be used to write long-form pieces while doing other things. Basically, you have to save every time before you switch to a different app (say, to look up some research).
In webOS, you'd just keep the card open and your document would be retained. And note: I'm not here to bash Android or glorify webOS. I did switch, after all. But man, either developers or Google have to fix this. At the very least, an app like Quickoffice should save its state when it's suspended, to include the currently open document. It doesn't actually have to run in the background, but it certainly shouldn't lose information.
Given how I'm using the Transformer, this a huge thing for me. I wouldn't switch to, say, the Touchpad, because webOS doesn't even have apps like this yet and probably won't for awhile. It might have Quickoffice sometime in the next few months, but that's about it. Oh, and the Touchpad is a weak tablet as well, and certainly doesn't have anything like the keyboard dock available. It's just that Google and the Android development community could learn a thing or two from webOS, starting with better multitasking support.
Okay, venting over. I feel much better now.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was just using the Playbook at staples and it also has the browser multitask problem... when I open a bunch of tabs (cnn, bbc, globeandmail, espn, etc.) and go to another app, returning to the browser causes all tabs to refresh - it's actually worse than on android because at least on android the tabs can remain "active" without the need to refresh SOME to MOST of the time.
So the illusion of multitasking remains on all mobile os's.
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Multitasking means services running in the background. Which Android can, and does do. It does not mean having every single process and application running live in the background(who wants that anyways? not even windows does multi tasking like that anymore.).

JCopernicus said:
Multitasking means services running in the background. Which Android can, and does do. It does not mean having every single process and application running live in the background(who wants that anyways? not even windows does multi tasking like that anymore.).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, light services that check for certain notifications is one thing, but apps that were run in the last 5 minutes should not close so quickly. In the meantime, I have a lot of services running and taking up memory that I DON'T want - I wish there was a way to adjust what apps stay in the memory (and which never load automatically), even if it does mean having to manually manage memory usage, I would rather it truly multitask than "fake it".
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Apps don't close, they are hibernated. If an app restarts from zero, it's a problem of the developer not implementing their save states properly. (I believe engadget app is notorious for this).
The concept of "closing" an app doesn't really exist. The closest thing is a force close, which is just removing it from memory.
There are a few apps that allow you tweak the thresholds, but they require root if I remember correctly.

Maybe even if it could use some of the 16/32 GB storage as a swap file it would help. It wouldn't slow the system down much since it's not on a magnetic platter like on a PC. I'd gladly give up a gig or two of my 32GB for a swap file if it meant the apps (or browser tabs) I was working with wouldn't get unloaded from memory while I was using them.

Mutnat said:
Maybe even if it could use some of the 16/32 GB storage as a swap file it would help. It wouldn't slow the system down much since it's not on a magnetic platter like on a PC. I'd gladly give up a gig or two of my 32GB for a swap file if it meant the apps (or browser tabs) I was working with wouldn't get unloaded from memory while I was using them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Archos did this on their 256mb ram devices (added 32mb swap I believe). It did absolutely nothing on those devices, but maybe a gig or two would make a difference. I'm willing to sacrifice some battery life and speed for a true multitasking device.
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JCopernicus said:
Apps don't close, they are hibernated. If an app restarts from zero, it's a problem of the developer not implementing their save states properly. (I believe engadget app is notorious for this).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hear you, and I do wish Quickoffice and Polaris Office would handle this correctly. That's really my only concern with Android, that these apps lose edits and new text with frustrating regularity.

illusion multitasking ? lol
want to see fake multitasking ,look at ios,it fakes it. but android is pure multitasking. multitasking allows app to still running and finish it's process in the background. try open a browser,load a rich content page, change to other app,wait for few second n backt to browser,the page should be loaded.
case when ur app won't continue from previous state just because android has its own way to kill processes, this is merely due to memory management.

xufuchang said:
illusion multitasking ? lol
want to see fake multitasking ,look at ios,it fakes it. but android is pure multitasking. multitasking allows app to still running and finish it's process in the background. try open a browser,load a rich content page, change to other app,wait for few second n backt to browser,the page should be loaded.
case when ur app won't continue from previous state just because android has its own way to kill processes, this is merely due to memory management.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But the point is, if I return to the browser more than just a few seconds later, it restarts and then reloads all my tabs - this isn't multitasking. With the amount of RAM we have on these devices, apps shouldn't be closing so aggressively - and worse yet, apps that I don't want in memory shouldn't be taking RAM away from important 'active' apps!
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EP2008 said:
But the point is, if I return to the browser more than just a few seconds later, it restarts and then reloads all my tabs - this isn't multitasking. With the amount of RAM we have on these devices, apps shouldn't be closing so aggressively - and worse yet, apps that I don't want in memory shouldn't be taking RAM away from important 'active' apps!
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes some apps just buggy, even honehcomb itself isn't perfect. but multitasking sure is working in android.

wynand32 said:
By far the best multitasking mobile OS is webOS. If a card is open and is anything other than a video, then it's running in the background unless the developer specifically codes it to suspend. Since I switched to Android, this is the one thing I miss the most about webOS.
For me, the only problem with how Android multitasks is with Quickoffice and Polaris Office. Try this: create a new document, add some text, and then start switching back and forth between it and other apps. Eventually (sometimes immediately) you'll return to a blank document, with no way to retrieve any edits. It's the same for a document that's been saved, and really limits how an Android device can be used to write long-form pieces while doing other things. Basically, you have to save every time before you switch to a different app (say, to look up some research).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That sounds like a design flaw in the applications. What happens when you switch to another application is the application being pushed into the background receives an OnPause() event. The application should handle this event by saving the user context in a manner that ensure no loss of data (ex write to the drive) and free resources. When you make the application the active you move it to the top of the activity stack and the app receives and OnResume() event. The app should handle this event by restoring the user context to the saved state.
This is all very well documented in the Android API along with the expectations of the actions the application should take. However, a developer can choose to ignore the recommendations.

jerrykur said:
That sounds like a design flaw in the applications. What happens when you switch to another application is the application being pushed into the background receives an OnPause() event. The application should handle this event by saving the user context in a manner that ensure no loss of data (ex write to the drive) and free resources. When you make the application the active you move it to the top of the activity stack and the app receives and OnResume() event. The app should handle this event by restoring the user context to the saved state.
This is all very well documented in the Android API along with the expectations of the actions the application should take. However, a developer can choose to ignore the recommendations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the explanation. I'm surprised then that these particular apps are having the problem--I mean, Quickoffice should know better, right?
Well, I've reported the issue, perhaps they'll resolve it.
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Can someone clarify this for me... (as I am used to Windows).
Let say I will start task like zip/unzip of a file/files or download of a file from the net. Can I do something different in the meantime and wait for the task to finish in the background?

Any chance the Atrix is exempt from this Android "feature"?

My single biggest gripe with the Android OS is the way it closes backgrounded applications without the user's permission, unrelated to available memory but rather amount of time the app is left idle. I can be editing a Word document in QuickOffice or Docs-to-Go, then get an incoming call, answer it and talk for ten minutes, only to find my Office application has been closed and all my changes have been lost.
I am wondering if perhaps by some small miracle, the Atrix has been programmed differently from other Android devices NOT to do this, because of its intended function as a desktop substitute via the Webtop environment. No one ever wants their desktop/laptop computer shutting down applications because they left to grab a coffee for ten minutes, so I'm hoping maybe the Moto devs took this into account and somehow turned off the "auto close backgrounded apps if left idle for X minutes" functionality of Android.
It's only a slim hope I'm holding out regarding this, but maybe someone can answer definitively one way or the other.. anyone know for sure?

No, it's still the same operating system. The Webtop is completely separate from Android.

Nope. I'm slightly annoyed every time adw ex is background killed just because I was reading my email, and it has to completely reload.
Not only that, but gingerbread took away the option to keep the launcher persistent
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If your app doesn't restore the previous state on restart, then the app developer is to blame, not android. Just saying

turl1 said:
If your app doesn't restore the previous state on restart, then the app developer is to blame, not android. Just saying
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but Motorola's responsible for any killing of webtop. X isn't designed to be magically killed the way that Android kills things.

It is worth pointing out this is less of an issue on Atrix given the 1Gb of RAM... but yes, this is still Android and as such the memory management is ultimately the same.
I have had cases on the Atrix where I am playing Angry Birds, get distracted and browse the web, forget I was playing the game... then return to the game 1 hour later to find it's still running as I left it. This certainly would NOT have happened on my Galaxy S!

Sogarth said:
Sorry, but Motorola's responsible for any killing of webtop. X isn't designed to be magically killed the way that Android kills things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We were talking about android apps though

turl1 said:
If your app doesn't restore the previous state on restart, then the app developer is to blame, not android. Just saying
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most apps do restore previous state.
They also take a while to do so.
On the other hand, my biggest gripe is resolved: cm7 has an built in option under he performance setting to keep the launcher persistant, so I don't really care anymore
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From my understanding of Android programming, it only closes Background tasks automatically, all apps are started as Background tasks by default, it's up to the app to tell Android that it's a Foreground app, and it can't be closed automatically.

Hmm, I've used QuickOffice and left it alone for a while (got distracted, went on the internet, checked emails, turned off the screen, etc) and it was still all there when I came back. Does it happen to you frequently?
As a test I just made a new word document and typed some random stuff into it. I'll leave it alone for a day in the background and see if it's still there tomorrow...

Restoring to previous state works for some types of apps, but for others it's not a viable solution. For example streaming radio applications or chat programs like eBuddy, Fring, Skype etc. These need to be left running constantly in the background, not just restored to where they left off, because otherwise you're not available to be contacted through them while they're closed/offline. Some of those apps use the workaround of an ongoing notification to avoid being shut down, but that is really just a trick that developers shouldn't have to resort to.
I find that both QuickOffice and Documents-To-Go get shut down constantly when left idle in the background, even with nothing else running or using memory, and after only ten minutes or so of idle time. And I always lose all unsaved changes - the previous state is never restored.
What seems to happen is this: I can leave a document in the background for hours, and then come back to it okay, IF I don't do anything else in between. But if before returning to the open document, I launch ANY other app first, even a very small footprint one like a notepad, THAT is when the previously backgrounded apps like QuickOffice get closed by Android. It seems that Android's auto-close-after-idle activity is triggered by the next time the user launches something else. That's when the check is done and idle apps get shut down.
There are free app-switching utilities like AltTabApps and Smart Taskbar which allow you to easily see which windowed apps/tasks are still currently running. Using these I have tested and confirmed that I can actually leave quite a few things running idle in the background for a full day, and every time I keep checking, they are all still there and open, waiting to be switched back to. But then as soon as I open a new small app, and all those others have been sitting there idle and backgrounded for long enough, *POOF*, they all get closed instananeously the moment the new app is opened.
And like I said it's not related to memory, because I can see how much is free, and the app I end up opening is very small as well.
So if you're going to test, don't just leave it for a day and then try to come back to it. Before you go back to it, open something else that ISN'T already running (such as email or text messaging which are always quietly open already).. choose a brand new app to open and then try to go back to your Quickoffice document. On the three or four Android 2.2 devices on which I have tried this, I have never, ever been able to return to a document without losing all changes.
Sorry for the long message.. just important to point out the mechanism at work so as to avoid a false positive result, since there are cases when you can return to documents when you haven't opened anything else new in between.

Ok, I see what you mean now. Tried it the way you said and left it for a good while and it did indeed lose the stuff I had typed. I can see how that would get frustrating...
Have you tried using a task manager and telling it to keep QuickOffice alive (i.e. for the system to never kill it)? Although this will probably eat your battery, so I guess only do this if you really need it. I doubt there's a way to turn the functionality off entirely, as it's a pretty core part of making multi-tasking work on low power consumption devices.

Even with my devices rooted, no task manager I have ever seen or tried has successfully been able to override the core Android system to keep-alive any app that I've specified. These utilities seem only to be able to affect their OWN task-closing habits or aggressiveness levels, but not to prevent the OS from doing its own thing separate from their internal settings.
Not to get side-tracked into an OS comparison, but I have an HTC Leo HD2 running Windows Mobile 6.5, and it is able to keep a dozen applications open in the background indefinitely, without ever slowing down or draining the battery. I can leave Word Mobile, Coreplayer, Internet Explorer, Opera Mobile, Windows Messenger, and a large handful of others all open and still get a strong couple of days out of the battery. Surely if an older OS like WinMo (and even WebOS and Symbian) can do this, Android should be capable of it too. For this very reason unfortunately, I have had to stick to Android 2.1 or WM devices as I need my apps to stay open until I decide to close them. I am always hoping though that a new 2.3 or 2.4 device will come along that allows disabling of this functionality by the user.

paleozord said:
Even with my devices rooted, no task manager I have ever seen or tried has successfully been able to override the core Android system to keep-alive any app that I've specified. These utilities seem only to be able to affect their OWN task-closing habits or aggressiveness levels, but not to prevent the OS from doing its own thing separate from their internal settings.
Not to get side-tracked into an OS comparison, but I have an HTC Leo HD2 running Windows Mobile 6.5, and it is able to keep a dozen applications open in the background indefinitely, without ever slowing down or draining the battery. I can leave Word Mobile, Coreplayer, Internet Explorer, Opera Mobile, Windows Messenger, and a large handful of others all open and still get a strong couple of days out of the battery. Surely if an older OS like WinMo (and even WebOS and Symbian) can do this, Android should be capable of it too. For this very reason unfortunately, I have had to stick to Android 2.1 or WM devices as I need my apps to stay open until I decide to close them. I am always hoping though that a new 2.3 or 2.4 device will come along that allows disabling of this functionality by the user.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The keep persitant value was depreciated from android alltogether in 2.3. However, if cm7 can be set to keep alive the launcher and the messenger app, then it stands to say there is still a way around this.
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[Q] Suspended or Closed?

Hi,
I likes to use Weather and twitter,FB apps of Win8.But hot to close them after opening them?I have to go to Task manager to kill them.
When i go to task manager there was Suspended written in left side of Application name.
What does it indicate?
What is difference between Suspend & Killing??
Sorry for Bad English

My basic understanding is that it is sort of like a mobile OS (Android, iOS...). Suspended apps are kept in RAM for quick resume but not actively processed. They can also be cleared from memory automatically as soon as it is needed for something else. In theory, you shouldn't have to worry about it, just let it do it's own thing. In practice, task manager is there if something goes wrong.

Correct, Supended apps are held in memory, but they do not use any processor nor do they have any effect on battery life. Very effecient way of multitasking like Windows Phone 7.5.

someone tweeted about it to Sam Moreau in channel9.
and he explained people have to stop thinking about "closing" an app and have to close apps to get your computer work fast. of course they have to tweak it.
and difference with killing, its apps are suspended so they eat some memory but its not like it will kill your memory.
with all apps suspended and all, still I use like 10-15% less memory than windows 7. which is amazing

This is not completely true. Several days ago, I was playing with Windows 8 and I have noticed that it got significantly slower. So I opened a task manager and weather app was using 60% of the CPU. In background. I am not sure, what was doing but I guess that it was drawing weather animation?
Also another drawback is that you cannot control what is in "app switching menu". You just have to keep sliding apps to the right and hope that you find one you are looking for. Apps you don't need don't close and apps you do need might suspend/close.

matejdro said:
This is not completely true. Several days ago, I was playing with Windows 8 and I have noticed that it got significantly slower. So I opened a task manager and weather app was using 60% of the CPU. In background. I am not sure, what was doing but I guess that it was drawing weather animation?
Also another drawback is that you cannot control what is in "app switching menu". You just have to keep sliding apps to the right and hope that you find one you are looking for. Apps you don't need don't close and apps you do need might suspend/close.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But its because its Dev Preview. and remember these apps are just place holders to have something to show in windows 8. its not like they will be there in the end, since they aren't optimized for example.
so the point is... you will not have to close the app. but since its a dev preview it will have problems. sometimes i cant even type here in IE desktop because it gets slow i guess for the spellchecker. and it wont stay that way in the end, they are fixing all this stuff, adding new features and making awesome apps for stuff like photos, people, messenger hub. stuff like that. but these apps you see like [email protected] and weather are just placeholders.
also developers have to optimize everything for their apps.
and the apps switching is for tablets, the swipe thing. you only click on the left of your screen and it goes to next app. if you pause a second and click again you will go back to your last app. also you can use scroll wheel. and alt+tab and win+tab. and ctrl+win+tab, ctrl+alt+tab.
so you don't have to think these apps you got in dev preview are going to be in RTM or beta. and apps will not be optimized to run nicely (like they do in WP7).
this OS needs work and it will have alot of bugs.