Database Users

Ipad fanboys on the Xoom board.

First off, why the heck did you buy a Xoom in the first place, it's kinda like you were asking for trouble and then paying for it, kinda stupid.
You say that the lack of high def video support is your main beef (especially after certain people point out that the vaunted all high powerfull apple didn't have all that many tablet apps on its initial release), but your keep switching the bar for what the problem is. You now say that the problem is no native, "Hardware" support for high def, but apple doesn't have that either, even the vaunted Ipad 2 doesn't seem to come with a hardware decoder for high def, and you apperantly realize that a software decoder is on the way, one way or the other, for the Xoom, so your only beef is it's not here now.
You know what, I'm not normally one of those Linux geeks who likes to show how smart I am and disdains others trying to play with my software, but [email protected] you apple guys are some annoying perfectionist f√cks that I'd rather not have on my team, and not just perfectionist but blind to the faults in your own chosen gods.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App

Many people like myself picked up an iPad when it was apparent that Android had nothing to compete with it. I bought mine over the summer expecting Android to release something, anything, that could compete with it during the fall, at which time I would sell the ipad and pick up the Android tablet. During that period of waiting, I picked up a Galaxy S phone, specifically the Epic4g. I later found out that Galaxy S phones were nearly identical to the iPad hardware wise. I am continually blown away by how awesome this phone is and its capabilities. I am not an iPad fanboy. I think the hardware is amazing, but iOS is annoying and far too simple. So that is where I am coming from:
The FACT that the Xoom is incapable of playing high profile [email protected] or higher is ridiculous given its specs and who the manufacturer of the SoC is. I'm sorry. The iPad running XBMC and my Galaxy S phone natively can play files that the Xoom cannot, and that is kinda pathetic, as neither of those devices are dual cores and both are running years old GPU tech. Maybe sometime in the future the Xoom will be able to software decode these videos by maxing out both cores of the CPU, but that is both not ideal and unlikely and will destroy battery life compared to hardware decoding which uses the GPU.
And yes, the iPad hardware decodes these videos using XBMC the same way that my phone hardware decodes natively. Natively they limit the capability of the ipad to pimp their iTunes garbage, but the capability was there in the hardware for ingenious people to take advantage of. The iPad had Air Video also, which mitigated much of its unjailbroken shortcomings until XBMC was ported. No such capability exists for the xoom according to the very people who brought the port of XBMC to the iPad.
As for the rest of your post where you go on about "teams" and other nonsense, what are you talking about. People can appreciate both platforms and both devices.
tl;dr: Part of the reason some of us were/are upset at this glaring shortcoming is that we have been waiting forever for an Android tablet to come swoop us off our feet and for months now Nvidia has been pimping its SoC as the bringer of all things HD and graphically sexy. Then we come to find out that oh yea, it only plays this VERY VERY specific kind of HD that no one uses and that is surpassed by last years PHONE technology. Its not the end of the world, but its personally what I use my iPad for most.

I have both so its easy to compare one to the other. With that said, looking forward to Xoom updates to bring feature parity. Hopefully something can be done with the craptastic video playback support.

No offense, but I enjoy snuggling up with my gf in front of my regular LCD TV to watch my movies. Why go through all that trouble of jailbreaking when another update will force you to revert? And why go through all that trouble to play a movie on a tablet when I can I play it back perfectly on my hdpc? I have more than a ½ TB of movies and how many movies are on my tablet....just three. Why? Just to show it off to others. In the end each is their own. But I didn't purchase my tablet to just play movies or music. I purchased it for productivity simply. Not saying ipad can't be that, but I prefer to free myself from iTunes. It's a bastard and no hack or mod will make any apple product work my way.

muyoso said:
Many people like myself picked up an iPad when it was apparent that Android had nothing to compete with it. I bought mine over the summer expecting Android to release something, anything, that could compete with it during the fall, at which time I would sell the ipad and pick up the Android tablet. During that period of waiting, I picked up a Galaxy S phone, specifically the Epic4g. I later found out that Galaxy S phones were nearly identical to the iPad hardware wise. I am continually blown away by how awesome this phone is and its capabilities. I am not an iPad fanboy. I think the hardware is amazing, but iOS is annoying and far too simple. So that is where I am coming from:
The FACT that the Xoom is incapable of playing high profile [email protected] or higher is ridiculous given its specs and who the manufacturer of the SoC is. I'm sorry. The iPad running XBMC and my Galaxy S phone natively can play files that the Xoom cannot, and that is kinda pathetic, as neither of those devices are dual cores and both are running years old GPU tech. Maybe sometime in the future the Xoom will be able to software decode these videos by maxing out both cores of the CPU, but that is both not ideal and unlikely and will destroy battery life compared to hardware decoding which uses the GPU.
And yes, the iPad hardware decodes these videos using XBMC the same way that my phone hardware decodes natively. Natively they limit the capability of the ipad to pimp their iTunes garbage, but the capability was there in the hardware for ingenious people to take advantage of. The iPad had Air Video also, which mitigated much of its unjailbroken shortcomings until XBMC was ported. No such capability exists for the xoom according to the very people who brought the port of XBMC to the iPad.
As for the rest of your post where you go on about "teams" and other nonsense, what are you talking about. People can appreciate both platforms and both devices.
tl;dr: Part of the reason some of us were/are upset at this glaring shortcoming is that we have been waiting forever for an Android tablet to come swoop us off our feet and for months now Nvidia has been pimping its SoC as the bringer of all things HD and graphically sexy. Then we come to find out that oh yea, it only plays this VERY VERY specific kind of HD that no one uses and that is surpassed by last years PHONE technology. Its not the end of the world, but its personally what I use my iPad for most.
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Thank you for being reasonable, even if I was coming off as some what of a d/ck. We actually do not fully know yet if the Xoom's hi def restrictions are totally related to hardware yet, some on the notion ink board have hinted that it is merely a problem with the OS and that the hardware can handle it, this actually makes sense when you think about it, after all nvidia is first and formost a graphics oriented company. So we could see an OS fix and have a hardware native solution.
Whatever the problem might be, the issue I generally have is that the apple fan boys are quick to dismiss the overall capability of the system in favor of a system that is fully developed, you can't compare nor compete with a system that is fully developed to it's ultimate potential with a system that is just beginning to feel itself out into what it can become. You might love the finished product of the Ipad, but at the same time understand that it has limits that the Xoom doesn't.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App

If the Adam has a Tegra 2 and can play high quality videos, the XOOM is absolutely capable of it. Right?

I bought an iPad2 tonight to have both

arrtoodeetoo said:
If the Adam has a Tegra 2 and can play high quality videos, the XOOM is absolutely capable of it. Right?
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Yes, exactly, the problem seems to be OS related, so fixable.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App

cwizardtx said:
I bought an iPad2 tonight to have both
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That's the best of both worlds. Enjoy!!!

muyoso said:
tl;dr: Part of the reason some of us were/are upset at this glaring shortcoming is that we have been waiting forever for an Android tablet to come swoop us off our feet and for months now Nvidia has been pimping its SoC as the bringer of all things HD and graphically sexy. Then we come to find out that oh yea, it only plays this VERY VERY specific kind of HD that no one uses and that is surpassed by last years PHONE technology. Its not the end of the world, but its personally what I use my iPad for most.
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Click to collapse
+1 on that one sir. you have no idea how long i was following the tegra 2 story last year. it is disappointing that there's a ton of codec issues on the xoom. I'm quite sure this is a software, not hardware issue.
However, Google/Motorola needs to be aware of this asap. The louder the noise, the more they will do something about it.

richardjr said:
Yes, exactly, the problem seems to be OS related, so fixable.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
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Except that the Notion Ink is similarly incapable of high profile [email protected] or higher video playback. Its a Tegra 2 issue.

cwizardtx said:
I bought an iPad2 tonight to have both
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Click to collapse
win!
i like apple's hardware just fine (my work machine is a macbook pro, which boot into xp) and i still have a 7 year old 64gb iPod and it still works somehow. what i don't like is apple OSes and walled gardens and devices that i can't do what I want with. i like to feel like i own a device. and i guess i might have to admit i'm a bit of a fanboy. i'm pretty bought in to the whole google ecosystem. I've even got a Cr-48 my xoom is sitting on top of.
but the positive side of this iOS vs Android thing is that we're getting some kickass products from the battle. without the fierce competition (in the wake of Apple changing the smartphone market with the first iPhone) we'd all still be stuck on palm/webOS, blackberry or winbloze mobile.

muyoso said:
Except that the Notion Ink is similarly incapable of high profile [email protected] or higher video playback. Its a Tegra 2 issue.
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OK, well I have asked my brother whom is a programer for Motorola what the actual hardware support is and I have posted on the nvidia developer site to explain what the capabilities are hopefully I will get a reply.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App

muyoso said:
Except that the Notion Ink is similarly incapable of high profile [email protected] or higher video playback. Its a Tegra 2 issue.
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Can the Ipad or Ipad 2 support [email protected] or higher video, and I mean native hardware, not software, and is the tegra 2 not capable with a software correction while the Ipad or Ipad 2 is, in other words is one device especially deficient as apposed to the other?
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App

Well... I am for one have switched to the other side - and LOVING IT!
Dont get me wrong - once the Android platform is a little more mature - I will be back! Until then good luck and enjoy waiting for fixes, games, apps and the 2nd generation around the corner.
(You may ask why did I give up my Android - well it was ViewSonic with a TERRIBLE screen. I also found the applications to be very substandard (games, etc.). I am one of those Linux/Java geeks who LOVE recompiling kernels, developing fixes/apps, etc. but for now.. I just wanted something that I would be productive with.
Anyway... I write this for google and other android manufactorers to see... I will be back.. I promise but I will NOT spend $800 on a beta platform ($400 would have taken me)!
I think I chose wisely
READ:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4215/apple-ipad-2-benchmarked-dualcore-cortex-a9-powervr-sgx-543mp2

I have an ipad, pretty much since day 1. How could you not be a fan? It is a market defining device like the ipod. MS has been talking tablets for 10 years and hasn't been able to pull it off. I don't use mine for movies or music and I still like it. For my uses, the Xoom is a better fit as it has a real file system, sd memory, usb hosting, Motorola seems to have warmed to rooting, etc. but my ipad (which I won't be upgrading) is still an excellent device. Android needs a media manager, hopefully a unified Android platform, to compete with ipad for most people. Maybe that will be Google Music?
Thank you Apple for raising the bar. If it wasn't for the iphone we'd be stuck with WM5.0 or a RIM still doing text only emails. As long as Google and Apple are chasing each other devices and innovation will be better and better and we have choices.

richardjr said:
Can the Ipad or Ipad 2 support [email protected] or higher video, and I mean native hardware, not software, and is the tegra 2 not capable with a software correction while the Ipad or Ipad 2 is, in other words is one device especially deficient as apposed to the other?
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
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The iPad supports nothing out of the box for obvious reasons. Its a closed ecosystem. The hardware is willing but iOS is unwilling. Installing XBMC however allows my iPad to play up to high profile [email protected] 720p videos before it begins to show signs of stuttering. Everything I have read including a direct quote from the dev behind the XBMC release for iOS who bought a Tegra 2 developer kit to begin the porting to the Tegra 2 platform is that Nvidia's Soc is incapable at a hardware level of high profile video @ L4.1 or higher. That is, with perfect drivers and codecs, that is the maximum it can achieve. The iPad2 will be able to do a lot more than the original iPad most likely. I wouldn't be surprised if it was capable of 1080p high profile @L5.1.

stanglx said:
Well... I am for one have switched to the other side - and LOVING IT!
Dont get me wrong - once the Android platform is a little more mature - I will be back! Until then good luck and enjoy waiting for fixes, games, apps and the 2nd generation around the corner.
(You may ask why did I give up my Android - well it was ViewSonic with a TERRIBLE screen. I also found the applications to be very substandard (games, etc.). I am one of those Linux/Java geeks who LOVE recompiling kernels, developing fixes/apps, etc. but for now.. I just wanted something that I would be productive with.
Anyway... I write this for google and other android manufactorers to see... I will be back.. I promise but I will NOT spend $800 on a beta platform ($400 would have taken me)!
I think I chose wisely
READ:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4215/apple-ipad-2-benchmarked-dualcore-cortex-a9-powervr-sgx-543mp2
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Click to collapse
SERIOUSLY! I returned my Xoom to Costco on thursday and got my ipad 2 yesterday and I'm extremely glad i did ($400 bucks in my pocket :]). I dont care how "closed" it is, the iPad handles media beautifully. The xoom couldn't even handle the large pdfs i threw at it, zooming and page turning was a stuttering mess (i know its a software issue but still!) while the iPad zips through the pages with such ease. This goes for movies as well, xoom=stutter or forceclose while ipad = smooth. And the apps, wow, they are amazing. Garageband on a tablet is so ridiculously awesome. And now there is a flash player for ipad! The iswifter app for ios played every damn flash video and game i through at it.
While the cameras on the xoom are better, the ipads cameras are plenty sufficient for what most people are going to use them for. Video chat and photbooth lol. For all other stuff i have my Epic 4g which takes beautiful pictures Speaking of epic 4g, i can finally use wireless tether now because the ipad supports BOTH infrastructure and adhoc. I know the Wireless tether 3.0 supports infrastructure but it caused my phone to reboot way too much.
For all you people saying the ipad 2 sucks and what not, please do read the anandtech review of it.
I still do hope xoom does well though. If it doesn't, developers won't move their apps from the appstore to the market place. Hopefully by the time the Galaxy Tab 10.1 comes out, honeycomb will be a little more mature. I Can't wait to see whats in store for android at google io this year (got my student ticket )

Congrats. Go post it on an apple board where someone cares. This is xoom board. it's a xoom dev board even.

Did anyone read the anandtech review of the PowerVR SGX543MP2 that they just posted? Holy testicles, it demolishes the Tegra 2 GPU.

Coming from G-Tablet

I'm having to return my gtablet because there is an issue with the sound and the battery. I bought it from someone on ebay so I can't get a replacement. I have to say apart from the sound going out for no reason whatsoever the gtablet was amazing. So fast and responsive. I played with the xoom today which I preordered from amazon. And I really love honeycomb's interface and that the buttons are on the screen but I can't say I'm at all impressed with the performance. I used the browser and it was so slow and laggy and wouldn't respond to my touches half the time. And I made sure to use the task manager to kill all other apps. Also the flash video performance was sub par compared to the gtablet.
Then I downloaded speedx 3d free and it ran no better that it does on my nexus one. Whereas on my gtablet it runs so buttery smooth at 60 fps. The xoom that I was playing with at best buy was on the newest update. I hope these r just software issues with honeycomb that get ironed out soon but I don't feel to confident for some reason. Something tells me I'm not going to see the kind of raw performance like I did with the gtablet, as nice as honeycomb is.

Where you running a custom rom on your G-tablet? That would explain its stability and speed.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App

Gtab runs froyo and a lower resolution. But has same processor. That explains the performance difference. HC is still new and is not optimized fully yet. At this point you're a early adopter and will deal with bugs and performance issues.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

ksc6000 said:
I'm having to return my gtablet because there is an issue with the sound and the battery. I bought it from someone on ebay so I can't get a replacement. I have to say apart from the sound going out for no reason whatsoever the gtablet was amazing. So fast and responsive. I played with the xoom today which I preordered from amazon. And I really love honeycomb's interface and that the buttons are on the screen but I can't say I'm at all impressed with the performance. I used the browser and it was so slow and laggy and wouldn't respond to my touches half the time. And I made sure to use the task manager to kill all other apps. Also the flash video performance was sub par compared to the gtablet.
Then I downloaded speedx 3d free and it ran no better that it does on my nexus one. Whereas on my gtablet it runs so buttery smooth at 60 fps. The xoom that I was playing with at best buy was on the newest update. I hope these r just software issues with honeycomb that get ironed out soon but I don't feel to confident for some reason. Something tells me I'm not going to see the kind of raw performance like I did with the gtablet, as nice as honeycomb is.
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What was your opinion on the screen difference? 2.2 on a Tegra2 is like running XP on an i5.
If it's any consolation I have no problems with lag in general and SpeedX runs super. I only get a momentary delay here and there in certain apps, not worth complaining about.

I just got my Xoom on Friday and I am Very, Very impressed with the Speed and Smoothness of the device. I use Dolphin HD as my Browser and it runs just fine. No lag and pages load rather quickly (even while Wirelessly Tethered to my Rooted HTC EVO). I returned the iPad 2 I had and exchanged for the Xoom and have Zero regrets. While the iPad 2 is nice, to me it's just a blown up iPod Touch (I have a 32gb iPod Touch 3rd Gen) so I would know. The Xoom is an Amazing Tablet. I put 3 Blu-Ray movies on my Xoom already (Toy Story 3, MegaMind and Kung-Fu Panda) so the kids can watch movies while we are out and about. As far as Apps go, I have found plenty of Apps for the Xoom and they all look fine to me.

ghodzilla5150 said:
I just got my Xoom on Friday and I am Very, Very impressed with the Speed and Smoothness of the device. I use Dolphin HD as my Browser and it runs just fine. No lag and pages load rather quickly (even while Wirelessly Tethered to my Rooted HTC EVO). I returned the iPad 2 I had and exchanged for the Xoom and have Zero regrets. While the iPad 2 is nice, to me it's just a blown up iPod Touch (I have a 32gb iPod Touch 3rd Gen) so I would know. The Xoom is an Amazing Tablet. I put 3 Blu-Ray movies on my Xoom already (Toy Story 3, MegaMind and Kung-Fu Panda) so the kids can watch movies while we are out and about. As far as Apps go, I have found plenty of Apps for the Xoom and they all look fine to me.
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Returned it? You should have sold it -- could have easily made a hundred bucks on it, or more.
ksc6000 said:
I'm having to return my gtablet because there is an issue with the sound and the battery. I bought it from someone on ebay so I can't get a replacement. I have to say apart from the sound going out for no reason whatsoever the gtablet was amazing. So fast and responsive. I played with the xoom today which I preordered from amazon. And I really love honeycomb's interface and that the buttons are on the screen but I can't say I'm at all impressed with the performance. I used the browser and it was so slow and laggy and wouldn't respond to my touches half the time. And I made sure to use the task manager to kill all other apps. Also the flash video performance was sub par compared to the gtablet.
Then I downloaded speedx 3d free and it ran no better that it does on my nexus one. Whereas on my gtablet it runs so buttery smooth at 60 fps. The xoom that I was playing with at best buy was on the newest update. I hope these r just software issues with honeycomb that get ironed out soon but I don't feel to confident for some reason. Something tells me I'm not going to see the kind of raw performance like I did with the gtablet, as nice as honeycomb is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've seen the same thing - not just in Quadrant / Nenamark but just with the naked eye. My guess is that it's either the higher resolution of the Xoom screen, or perhaps the HC Nvidia drivers are not that mature yet. Either way, the GTablet (and the Adam) seems speedier, overall.
The Xoom TFT screen is definitely better than the GTAB, however.

roebeet said:
I've seen the same thing - not just in Quadrant / Nenamark but just with the naked eye. My guess is that it's either the higher resolution of the Xoom screen, or perhaps the HC Nvidia drivers are not that mature yet. Either way, the GTablet (and the Adam) seems speedier, overall.
The Xoom TFT screen is definitely better than the GTAB, however.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So let me ask a semi-evil question. You have enough money to buy either a WiFi Xoom or another G-TAB. Which would you get?
Add one more condition, whatever I get I will be "handing down" to someone in November as I plan to get a KalEl tablet when those come out about then (KalEl being the quad-core Tegra that nVidia has begun demoing)?
Thanks in advance!

EwanG said:
So let me ask a semi-evil question. You have enough money to buy either a WiFi Xoom or another G-TAB. Which would you get?
Add one more condition, whatever I get I will be "handing down" to someone in November as I plan to get a KalEl tablet when those come out about then (KalEl being the quad-core Tegra that nVidia has begun demoing)?
Thanks in advance!
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Click to collapse
Other than multi-tasking will the Quad core run any better than the Duo?
I have read that there is little difference between the i5 and i7 except for apps that specifically talk to the extra cores!

EwanG said:
So let me ask a semi-evil question. You have enough money to buy either a WiFi Xoom or another G-TAB. Which would you get?
Add one more condition, whatever I get I will be "handing down" to someone in November as I plan to get a KalEl tablet when those come out about then (KalEl being the quad-core Tegra that nVidia has begun demoing)?
Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If those were the only two options, then a Xoom hands down. It's got a lot of problems (ie. missing microSD support, speed lag at the moment etc.) but it has a MUCH better screen and that is absolutely critical to me.
The reason why I write "the only options" is that I might consider a Tegra 2 IPS device, when they get released. Whenever that happens (maybe in a month?). As for KalEl, that's in the late summer / fall so it's really not on the radar, yet.
I think the Xoom Wifi $600 (or less?) option should be a decent product, especially once they shake out the bugs in Honeycomb.

rjoudrey said:
Other than multi-tasking will the Quad core run any better than the Duo?
I have read that there is little difference between the i5 and i7 except for apps that specifically talk to the extra cores!
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Click to collapse
I Think the Quad is supposed to be 5x Faster than the Dual. and that the GPU has 16 cores or somin. The Newer Tegra Nvidia chips Blow away the last.

You should have really not use task manager and kill apps. Because most of them will restart after being killed. So all the apps start at once will cause the gpu generates lots of power and the os may get unresponsive and laggy. So get rid of that damn task manager.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App

X 2. Im running your tnt lite rom on my gtab and it seems to run a lot quicker overall v. My xoom. Too bad you cant improve the atrocious viewing angles on the gtab tho
roebeet said:
Returned it? You should have sold it -- could have easily made a hundred bucks on it, or more.
I've seen the same thing - not just in Quadrant / Nenamark but just with the naked eye. My guess is that it's either the higher resolution of the Xoom screen, or perhaps the HC Nvidia drivers are not that mature yet. Either way, the GTablet (and the Adam) seems speedier, overall.
The Xoom TFT screen is definitely better than the GTAB, however.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App

rjoudrey said:
Other than multi-tasking will the Quad core run any better than the Duo?
I have read that there is little difference between the i5 and i7 except for apps that specifically talk to the extra cores!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Java programs will immediately take advantage of all 4 cores since Java is naturally multithreaded.

Until these benchmarking apps are updated to take advantage of OpenGL 2.0 you're not going to see high scores on any Honeycomb tablet.

Well, I had considered the iPad 2, but I am trying to get away from supporting iOS at home. Particularly as ugly as the upgrade for the original iPad to the latest update went.
I would like to get something now since I believe the Tegra 2 IPS tablets you're referring to are likely to be more of a July timeframe, and will likely be quickly passed over by the KalEl chips.
For the person asking if the additional cores will make much difference - the current Tegra 2 is most comparable to an Intel Atom. And the programs and video performance on these tablets pretty much match that.
The KalEl is supposed to actually exceed Core 2 Duo speeds and capabilities. So in that sense we are talking about going from essentially a netbook to essentially a notebook in terms of performance. Heck that is why there are rumors of an iPad 3 in that same timeframe. Because once that generation of chips come out it is going to be a very open question whether you need anything more than a tablet and a bluetooth keyboard for anything that requires less than a true desktop experience.
My .02 worth of course

how much do you think these newer tablets will cost? same 600 dollar price range? I'd probably want to sell my wifi xoom and then buy a newer model rather than wait that long.

patass said:
how much do you think these newer tablets will cost? same 600 dollar price range? I'd probably want to sell my wifi xoom and then buy a newer model rather than wait that long.
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If you're talking the KalEl equipped tablets, I presume they will be in about the same range, with the current tablets discounted a little similar to what Apple did with the first generation iPads. That said, I expect there to be just limited availability over the holiday season with probably only one or two manufacturers shipping by Thanksgiving.
Of course there are already some component shortages due to the Japanese earthquake. One area where Apple has an advantage since they have pre-ourchased a lot of their supplies. So while they may get them later than planned, they usually are assured of getting them first, and at a fixed cost.
FWIW...

Always take your experience with a display model with a grain of salt. Unlike the fresh G tab that you unboxed yourself and handled/tweaked with care, the display Xoom has gone through hours upon hours of goobers and children wailing away at it, changing default settings, etc.

Elysian893 said:
Java programs will immediately take advantage of all 4 cores since Java is naturally multithreaded.
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I'm going to have to disagree with you. Some parts of Dalvik (android's version of java), like the garbage collector, will take advantage of multiple cores. Android as an OS uses tons of threads, and will get snappier with more cores... but Android was written to explicitly use multiple threads.
What I'm saying is that apps won't use multiple cores unless the programmer DESIGNS them that way.

Second thoughts?

I'm not sure if this is the correct forum to post this under, seeing as I'm new to the XDA Developers community, but here goes nothing:
Has anyone else that has purchased an Kindle Fire been having second thoughts?
I think the main reason that I'm feeling this way is the whole thing feels sluggish, and the entire experience is frustrating. I did not buy the KF for a media consumption device; I bought it with the intention of rooting it, and having a $200 full-featured Android tablet, and having done so, something still feels off. It's extremely frustrating that I spent hours trying to get a custom wallpaper, and while I understand that it's a known-issue (So many threads made everyday...)
I played with my friends G2 today, which by no means is a new phone, and it (felt like), it kicked the KF's ass in speed. I just don't understand this at all. This (afaik) is a single core 800MHz device that feels more fluid than a 1GHz Dual Core. Is there something I'm missing?
Now, I'm new to Android, so I have absolutely no idea if this is a software issue that will get resolved (Honeycomb / Ice Cream Sandwich?), how long a wait that will be. (I understand that no one knows the answer to that.) Or... Is this just the hardware that $200 will buy you? I understand they're selling each KF at a loss, maybe I had higher expectations than I should have.
I noticed in a local Best Buy Black Friday ad, that the Acer Iconia 7" tablet will go on sale for $190, which has spurred thoughts of returning my KF, and purchasing the Iconia. Can anyone think of a good reason not to?
Please excuse my ignorance, I really am trying to learn something here. Will these issues improve with time, once custom ROMs start getting developed for the KF?
Thanks for reading. I appreciate any input, even if it's pointing out something I've missed. (Especially so.)

First off, welcome to the forums! and yeah, general is a pretty decent place for this sort of thing imo.
I think, if you're looking for a full featured android tablet for under $200, and are willing to brave the black friday madness to get it, then by all means, return your kindle and go for the Iconia. It's got better specs, cameras, honeycomb, etc - and lets face it, amazon designed the kindle to be just that, a kindle. Whatever android functionality we get past that should be looked at as a bonus to what was already there imo.
I've owned an asus transformer as my primary android tablet for close to 6months now, and got the kindle intending it to be mostly a device for media, so I was pleasantly surprised how well it did as an android tablet as well. I actually ended up falling in love with the size and ease of one-handed use of the 7" tablet, and am debating ditching the transformer and either going with just the kindle, or picking up a more powerful 7" tablet myself.
Don't get me wrong, I love the kindle and will definitely be hanging onto it - but one of the more main reasons I got it was it's integration to all of amazons media services.
I think you'll notice a considerable increase in speed and smoothness with the tegra 2 and more notably the 1gb of memory, especially if you root the iconia and install a more cut down rom.
The only thing I will say here is having used both the kindle and a 10" honeycomb tablet now... I'm not entirely sure how i'd like the honeycomb interface on a 7" tablet... it might almost feel too cluttered - but thats an ocd person with a very minimalist taste speaking.
Just my 2 cents, hope it helps.

I've seen quite a few complains about sluggish performance but I honestly haven't seen any of that after rooting and switching to go launcher. There was some noticible slow downs changing orientation of the device or just simply scrolling throught the carousel when I was using the stock launcher but that seems to be all gone now. Ive been playing Pandora while surfing on opera with several tabs open haven't seen any lag at all. Maybe im not stressing my tablet enought? Idk what other ppl do on it but coming from an ipad 1 im very satisified with my purchase . ICS is suppose to have similar ram usage to GB so I think the 512 ram should be suffice atleast for my usage.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using xda premium

Really appreciate the thought out reply.
I love the 7" form-factor myself; the only doubt that I'm having right now is battery life. It seems to be 5 hours of casual WiFi browsing, which is ridiculously low compared to the KF. The other features totally make it worth it. Mini-HDMI and Micro-SD would definitely be nice to have, as well as GPS? Jeez.
Edit: If I do return it, should I unroot it, is there a process to return it to factory settings?

Yeah, 5 hours battery life is a bit rough - although again to reference my experiences with the transformer, at least, a cut down Rom will likely help that a decent bit.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using xda premium

If you return any tablet you've rooted by all mean unroot it. It not only helps if you get a clerk who knows what to look for (and refuses your return justifiably as rooting voids warranty) but also it's good form. It avoids "surprises" for whomever gets your tab afterwards.
Having owned the Iconia A100 for about 2 weeks before returning it (battery life, viewing angles, Acer possibly leaving tabs and lack of dev support) I must say it's a fine little tab. Only 8G internal but uSD offsets, 1GB RAM, quality build and reported ICS in January are real pluses. Price ($330) is steep but if you can get it on BF then do so.
Now that root has been achieved on the NT, it's blows the doors off the KF (specs, battery life, etc). Seriously look into it as a replacement for the KF.
BTW I would not count on HC or ICS for the KF. No reason for Amazon to do that as it doesn't add revenue to buying anything from Amazon. B&N only upped the NC to 2.2 Froyo after almost a year on 2.1 then stopped.

skeeterpro said:
Now that root has been achieved on the NT, it's blows the doors off the KF (specs, battery life, etc). Seriously look into it as a replacement for the KF.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have a link for NT root? I can't find it and I am holding off on buying one until I see what's possible on it.

I already own the HTC flyer referenced in my .sig and I don't think anything comes close to it speedwise since it has a 1.5 GHz single core processor. And I've played with the Dell streak 7 which is dual core 1 GHz. Since app so few apps can actually use the second core it feels slower by comparison. It has 512 memory like the KF and I think that's much of the reason it seems so much slower. I used the V6 whatever script by Zepp-somebody (as you can see I'm just horrible with names) from here on XDA and it made a big difference. So I'd guess the Fire would also benefit from tweaked minfrees and OOM settings also. Considering some of that 512 is given to video I think almost all lag is actually the Android OS moving things out of memory and killing apps to make room for the new app or the app you're returning to.
Sent from my HTC Flyer P512 using Tapatalk

I have to add that I tried quite a few devices before settling on my 7". I brought home a couple, the Iconia screen was just unacceptable period, the angle you will want to view it the most is the worst, every Iconia I've seen has this problem on both sides of the border. Not to mention not so great battery life although I did find it better than the reviews, and random FCs. I eventually settled on a Flyer and it's miles ahead of the Iconia, what a polished device, it just works, so smooth, has a really nice screen, and is solid built.
I'm here cause I'm looking at the KF myself for my kids, but it sounds like it will be more trouble than it's worth to get them working north of the border. I tried a Vox for a couple of days and it was just so buggy, slow and locked down.

bsoplinger said:
I already own the HTC flyer referenced in my .sig and I don't think anything comes close to it speedwise since it has a 1.5 GHz single core processor. And I've played with the Dell streak 7 which is dual core 1 GHz. Since app so few apps can actually use the second core it feels slower by comparison. It has 512 memory like the KF and I think that's much of the reason it seems so much slower. I used the V6 whatever script by Zepp-somebody (as you can see I'm just horrible with names) from here on XDA and it made a big difference. So I'd guess the Fire would also benefit from tweaked minfrees and OOM settings also. Considering some of that 512 is given to video I think almost all lag is actually the Android OS moving things out of memory and killing apps to make room for the new app or the app you're returning to.
Sent from my HTC Flyer P512 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also considered the Flyer when I bought the A100. The digitizer for note taking attracted me but not paying upwards to $70-80 for the pen. No HC was a turn-off with little hope of upgrade. That plus a couple articles spectulating HTC getting out of the tab business broke the deal for me. But I have read that the Flyer is a serviceable device indeed!
---------- Post added at 09:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:36 AM ----------
sgood1971 said:
Do you have a link for NT root? I can't find it and I am holding off on buying one until I see what's possible on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure. You'll need to be familiar with ADB (but then we all should).
Keep in mind the Search function is your friend!

To be completely honest, most of the things that I've noticed have performance issues are the Amazon-specific things -- the bottom buttons, the stock launcher, etc. In fact, everything else, now that I've rooted it, runs just fine even when I limit the processor to 600MHz per core.
I really am pretty sure the biggest performance thing is Amazon's modifications to the Android stuff. So, that *may* be fixed in upcoming updates. Or, heck, we'll just get a good custom rom sometime!

I've noticed intermittant sluggish performance only on Silk Browser. Using Opera Browser instead solves this and is much faster browsing experience.

skeeterpro said:
Sure. You'll need to be familiar with ADB (but then we all should).
Keep in mind the Search function is your friend!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the link. I did indeed use the search, I always do. Unfortunately my search-foo must have been weak indeed today.
Thanks again.

mewshi said:
Or, heck, we'll just get a good custom rom sometime!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This. I'm thinking it won't be too long before they start the ROM game...or hoping. I wouldn't keep the fire with its stock interface; I also bought it as a tablet. That said, the thing has been out a WEEK and they've already made leaps and bounds. The thing was rooted in like 12 hours, they've got CWM on it (just can't navigate easily) and I think they'll work out the kinks and start romming. My hope is for CM9, myself.

matt314159 said:
This. I'm thinking it won't be too long before they start the ROM game...or hoping. I wouldn't keep the fire with its stock interface; I also bought it as a tablet. That said, the thing has been out a WEEK and they've already made leaps and bounds. The thing was rooted in like 12 hours, they've got CWM on it (just can't navigate easily) and I think they'll work out the kinks and start romming. My hope is for CM9, myself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True enough but regardless keep your hopes and expectations realistic. Remember that this device was not designed to be an open android tablet. The overlay and mods from Amazon might be tough to completely delete or bypass. Could be wrong but even so it's a $200 device. It will only ever be that. Which is fine but it is what it is.

I own a flyer also and it is a great tablet. I also bought the Fire for what is was advertised for, media content from Amazon. I don't intend on rooting because I think it performs just fine as it is. For your kids, watching movies, games and reading, I think they would enjoy this 7 inch device.
Sent from my GT-P7310 using xda premium

After going to Best Buy, and playing with the Iconia, it's re-affirmed my purchase in the KF. The display on the Iconia certainly leaves something to be desired.
I think I basically want a Galaxy Tab 7.0 at a $200 price point - not gonna happen, heh.

xodlike said:
After going to Best Buy, and playing with the Iconia, it's re-affirmed my purchase in the KF. The display on the Iconia certainly leaves something to be desired.
I think I basically want a Galaxy Tab 7.0 at a $200 price point - not gonna happen, heh.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good to know.. display on that was one thing i never really thought about. heh.

At this point, I have to say the Fire is a keeper for me. What put it over the edge was that I was able to sideload the ereader.com app and read my books in full screen (I have been using this site for ebooks for more than a decade and probably have 200+ books in that library). The ereader app won't let me unlock my books on my Archos Honeycomb tablet and my HTC Flyer on Gingerbread will unlock the books, but the app is the screen size of a phone and I can't figure out how to make it bigger.
The Fire is the only device I can stream Amazon Instant Video without stuttering and allows me to use Netflix and Hulu too.
I've managed to sideload my manga reader apps and some other apps I love.
I can't plug a hard drive in, but I can stream with my Go Flex satellite.
Surfing isn't any better than any other device I own (maybe a little bit slower), but I can live with it for the other benefits.
Still not giving up my other tablets though

Expecting a "full featured" tablet from a $200 tablet is silly. The Kindle wasn't built to be a rooted device, it wasn't built to do all the things that Android tablets can do (GPS, bluetooth, video/voice calling, etc), it was built to be a media consumption device and a reader. It does both of those things well, and anything else it can do is just extra goodness. If you need more storage, GPS, bluetooth, or any of those other features... I'd recommend going with another tablet. You'll be spending more, but you get what you pay for.

[Q] Is the fire good enough for a everyday tablet ?

im looking for a tablet but my budget is limited and for 200$ the fire falls in to that money slot perfectly .
after its rooted is the fire tablet that can be used for everyday use say
twitter .. facebook etc etc
thanks for any and all information

Earlier today someone posted almost the same questions: "Should I buy a Kindle Fire"
It has no micro sd, no camera, no microphone, and no bluetooth. If you want to use it for viewing media, games, contacts, calendar etc., it's great.

For what its worth, I use it everyday and I quite like it. I miss the microphone (for tuning my guitar) and hardware volume controls though.
Facebook, Twitter etc are not a problem at all. I am on CM7, btw.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

For $200, you cant go wrong. Its also a great game platform- Riptide is awesome on the Kindle.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using xda premium

I agree, Kindle Fire's awesome! There are some features it could have like my iPad. But for the price, you cant got wrong.

seltaeb said:
For what its worth, I use it everyday and I quite like it. I miss the microphone (for tuning my guitar) and hardware volume controls though.
Facebook, Twitter etc are not a problem at all. I am on CM7, btw.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can get this plug-in mic for $1.30 w/shipping. I use it to tune my guitar (using the gstrings app) and make recordings:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00277EMQ2/ref=oh_o02_s00_i00_details

It' great for light use. Web browsing, watching netflix, etc.

I don't have any comment about the stock Amazon software (only used it long enough to root and install TWRP and CM7).
The hardware is quite nice, however. Very solid construction — maybe a bit heavy, but the result is a satisfying feel.
The user experience is very good under the unofficial CM7 ports, even though they are still relatively early in development. As the available AOSP/CM ROMs mature, I think the UX will be excellent, especially ICS.
Some will see the lack of camera and microphone as a disadvantage. Obviously the KF isn't tailor-made for Skype. But I don't need or want every device I own to be able to look at me, listen to me, pinpoint itself on a map, etc. For web browsing, reading, media viewing, and probably gaming, I think the KF's capabilities are probably fine. It already does a much better job at Google Earth than my friend's iPad 2, with the exception of not having GPS.
It's worth noting that the KF appears to have hardware controllers for both GPS and Bluetooth, but it's not clear that either device is connected to an antenna. If not, obviously they won't work without hardware mods.

grvthang said:
You can get this plug-in mic for $1.30 w/shipping. I use it to tune my guitar (using the gstrings app) and make recordings:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00277EMQ2/ref=oh_o02_s00_i00_details
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I gather from this that the headphone jack includes microphone capability...so I would think you could use a stereo cell phone headset and the wifi to make calls using skype (voice only). Has any body tried this and how well did it work?

I think that what we have with the Kindle Fire is this kind of amazing intersection of price-point and brand name recognition.
At $199 you can get a lot of people in the door and the Amazon name backing it and maintaining an app store lets consumers know that the company behind the device is actually serious about it and, unlike some of the competition, isn't going out of business any time soon.
Where all of this wonderfully manifests itself for us as tech enthusiasts is in how quickly the device was rooted, how quickly meaningful recovery options were made available, and how many ROMs/firmwares/OSs are already in some stage of working and working well whether that's in a state of alpha, beta, or stable release.
There are better tablets out there but at $199 and with this much of a solid scene hammering on the thing you'd be hard pressed to find a better entry point into tablets.

Yes. You'll love it. Neilson is a jack***.

hdmunger said:
I gather from this that the headphone jack includes microphone capability...so I would think you could use a stereo cell phone headset and the wifi to make calls using skype (voice only). Has any body tried this and how well did it work?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is already a very long thread on that. The microphone only works on some apps.
Sent from my Gingervolt-ed VS910 4G using xda premium

nxd said:
It's worth noting that the KF appears to have hardware controllers for both GPS and Bluetooth, but it's not clear that either device is connected to an antenna. If not, obviously they won't work without hardware mods.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I knew about the bluetooth, but I hadn't heard of a GPS in it. If there were some way to make bluetooth and GPS active on the Fire it'd be really awesome for it's price.

Works Great
Once its rooted, it works fantastic. If you cant get it rooted, then other options that give you proper android market access are better. There are just too many important android apps missing from the Amazon App Store right now for it to work as an everyday tablet for everyone out of the box.
I'd also have liked to see Amazon go with a MicroSD slot instead of incorporating the 8gb of "internal" micro sd storage (surely that would have been cheaper from a production standpoint?).
At any rate, mine is rooted, and works great.

I actually prefer the default of the kindle over the honeycomb and gingerbread launchers. the only thing it's missing is a way to switch tasks quickly.
hardware is nice and solid, a bit on the heavy side.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

It's my primary web device for evening browsing - I'm using it to write this now.
Gaming is nice, Convo for forum posting (needs Android Market), Dolphin HD for secure and compatible web browsing...
Your average consumer can probably live without ever rooting this puppy, but for me, without Swype, I wouldn't be willing to use it for any writing more than a sentence. And it's pretty sad to not have the standard Market and Google apps... But once you fix those, turn off root and be happy.

Fire is a very nice tablet -- I bought my daughter one for Christmas,and after using it for a day or so I really like it. I also picked up an HTC EVO View 4G 7" tablet on sale for $229, free shipping, no tax, and no contract. Hence,this tablet only cost me $17 more than buying the Fire locally. The View has dual cameras, Bluetooth, 32 gig, a micro sd slot, and now honeycomb. So if these features are important to you, you could look for one on sale for a similar price -- sales on this tablet seem to be popping up everywhere as of late. I must say, however, the Fire seems just a tad faster (dual core vs single core 1.5 GHz). And the Fire interface is dead simple to use (although not as flexible as Honeycomb). Although both tablets are different, they're both awesome - you really can't go wrong either way. Based on my searching, these are the two best tablet deals right now. I also got my wife an iPad 2 for Christmas, and it's awesome too. Just a bit too big for my liking, and I paid less for the combo of Fire and View than for the iPad alone. Gotta love the Android tablets for that!

grvthang said:
You can get this plug-in mic for $1.30 w/shipping. I use it to tune my guitar (using the gstrings app) and make recordings:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00277EMQ2/ref=oh_o02_s00_i00_details
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, this is interesting. I have a few mics lying around, will give them a try first. Thanks a mil.

If you're willing to sacrifice full-fledged feature-rich experience for the cheaper price, it's totally worth it. And, if you're willing to flash custom ROMs on it eventually, even more so.

The fire is amazing in my opinion, but what you HAVE to remember when your buying this is its 200 dollars, so you can't expect anything near an Ipad experience. I personally love it for games, web browsing, netflix, light music, and pretty much just enjoying media. So far its been able to do everything I wanted it to do, except up the storage capacity haha, but other than that its been perfect. Its really up to what your looking for.

My review of 8.9

I've not posted in this forum yet. I've used xda to root several android devices. I've owned or still have nooks, fire, Acer 500, Asus prime, and Asus infinity. I got the hd fully knowing what I was getting. I wanted a media tablet. I'm doing about 90% of my computer time on tablets and wanted to play media and compute at the same time.
Why the hd 8.9?
7 in tablets are good for a lot of things . They are easy to hold and typing is easier. They are easier to carry. However I'm in my sixties and my vision is not what it used to be. I like a bigger screen and wanted something that is easier to type on than 10in. Tablets. I also wanted something a little easier to carry. I wanted hd playback and really wanted something close to my infinity in screen quality. I didn't want to spend $500.I use Amazon prime. I am not an Apple fan. I heard a review about sound quality, that impressed me. With its price the hd was not a hard decision.
What I like.
I am not disappointed. The biggest wow is the sound. I use volume boost on my other tablets and the hd blows them out of the water. Both in volume and sound quality.
I played a hd video on YouTube, comparing hd with infinity. I believe both have 240 resolution. Video looked great on both tablets. Flesh tones looked better on hd. Again no disappointment.
Lots of selections in Amazon app store, and its not that hard to side load apps. I would guess 90% of programs I've downloaded work fine. I use dropbox to transfer programs. Amazon has box app, but I have had no problems with dropbox so that's what I use. Go to their site and download app using silk. Since I have access to Google play with other android tablets, I just upload and download through cloud storage. Use a friend's tablet to do what I'm doing.
I like the email app. Email and calender sync to gmail and its simple to use. Silk web browser works just fine. It's not the fanciest but works just fine. I've had lots more problems with other tablets web browsers. Predictive text is working pretty good on this thing.
WiFi is another reason I like hd, and I was pleasantly pleased when I realized it can operate on the 5000 band.
What I don't like
I'm not going into the Amazon skin issue because it is what it is, and it does a good job front ending Amazon. If you don't like it you can root it. Don't know if I will, but someday when I'm board I probably will.
I would like a hair more grip on the back. This is better than my other tablets but little more would be great.
Sometimes I'm getting poor or no key response. Probably will get fixed in upgrade.
My favorite keyboard sideloaded but the side menu didn't close and blocked part of the keyboard and I couldn't use to. I wish option bar collapsed or I could move it to the bottom having said that I like where the back key is. It's really handy where it's at both exposed hidden. Easy thumb operation.
I wish charging port and hdmi was on the side. Their in the way if you use some sort of bracket or want to rest bottom on something. Not all apps rotate all the way around.
Overall I'm very happy with kindle fire hd 8.9. In its simplest form it's easy to use. Most applications people will use are already here. Not having YouTube is a problem but YouTube downloader app in Amazon store will work. Elsewhere on hd threads there is a instructions to get YouTube without root that works.
What makes this tablet different than anything in its price range is the high performance features. I would have no problem getting this for my mom or recommend this to anyone that wants a tablet to just work. There is a kids mode that I don't need but have heard is very good as well.
No buyers regret here, even though I'm watching ces. Chuckle, always ces envy. I am very happy with my hd.
Woody
Sent from my KFJWI using Tapatalk 2

Review 8.9" Kindle Fire HD
woodsonmh,
Very nice review. Some of this review reflects my experience with the Kindle 7" HD. I completely agree with
your review regarding the sound. We own about 40 Tablets (company wide) and the Kindle is by far the best
sounding tablet out of the group when watching movies. I am sure this is in part due to Dolby running in the
background. I am also impressed with the coating over the glass. They have something embedded that
reduces glare to an absolute minimum. So when we use the Kindle outdoors, we are not overcome with sun
glare and reflection. Thank you again for the review and welcome to the Kindle General forum.

Gotta say the sound is awesome on the kindle 2nd gen (non hd)
Even without the dolby... i really think it's the speakers above the dolby since i compared the sound with the hd model and found very little difference in quality and volume.
Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk 2

Kindle Fire 2
mindmajick said:
Gotta say the sound is awesome on the kindle 2nd gen (non hd)
Even without the dolby... i really think it's the speakers above the dolby since i compared the sound with the hd model and found very little difference in quality and volume.
Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mindmajick,
Wow, even the Kindle Fire 2? When I really notice Dolby is when I use headphones. We just purchased a Nexus 10
and Note II when comparing a Movie against the Kindle 7" HD, the sound and clarity on the HD clearly surpasses
the Not II and the Nexus 10. There is absolutely no noise when cranked up, whereas the Nexus 10 has a hiss when
it is cranked up. This is great stuff mindmajick, good to know and pass onto our customers. I really love the XDA
Community.:good:

Yup. Even on the kindle 2
I was actually gonna buy a 7" nexus tab but when i went to the store there were 10 in stock. All returns for faulty hardware. I bought the kindle 2nd gen KNOWING it would be hackable and with solid hardware.
Cyanogenmod will come in time. My current phone is the skyrocket. Again i bought it for the hardware and not the stock os.
Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk 2