Related
Have been very happy with Tiamat 1.4.0 since it lets me use my Bluetooth keyboard with no issues, and it did give SD Card support.
I gather if I do the 3.1 upgrade I lose the Tiamat kernel, and so may gain some things and lose others.
So, would you recommend the 3.1 upgrade anyway, or stick with Tiamat and 3.0 until there is a 3.1 compatible version of Tiamat?
Thanks!
3.1, it's worth it. Plus look in the dev section. I have my sd card working on 3.1.
Sent from my Thunderbolt using XDA Premium.
OK, I have done the deed. Will have to see if my Bluetooth keyboard problems reappear going back to stock or not.
Anything in particular I should look at to convince myself this was the right thing to do?
Thanks,
Ewan
Well other people have reported on the general forum that 3.1 actually does is worse on the keyboard than 3.01
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App
I haven't installed 3.1 because I love the speed that overclocking gives me. For me, there doesn't seem to be an awful lot to gain from 3.1 worth giving that up.
I'm interested to read your opinion, since you were also on the fence about it.
Well, for me it gives me in stock the two main things I installed Tiamat for - Bluetooth keyboard that works, and SD card support. I hardly ever use the stock browser, so the changes there don't really affect me. Hopefully I will see some improvement in video playback.
FWIW...
I'd recommend going ahead with the update (which I think you already did, but I'll write this for future users who have the same question). The reason is because the whole system feels snappier and more responsive (to me anyway). Scrolling is MUCH smoother and feels more like my android phone, which I love. I'm still getting a bit of stuttering when playing back HD flash files, but I had that when I was overclocked to 1.5ghz too. Once the next version of the Tiamat kernel comes out for 3.1, and we'll be able to overclock, 3.1 will be far and away better than 3.0.1. These guys are normally pretty quick about coming up with new kernels. I'm kinda surprised we haven't seen a few already, but I'm sure they're working hard on it.
Either way, you're gonna have to upgrade eventually, so you might as well get it over with. That's basically the way I saw it.
Best of luck to you with whichever you decide.
I also recommend upgrading to 3.1. It's just so smooth that I don't even miss the overclocking on the hacked kernels. Also, two days with no FC's on the stock browser etc. Smooth HQ youtube videos, and no problem with BT keyboard either. Everything to gain and nothing to lose. 3.1 with SD support from BRD FTW!
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
So I know that Instagram won't work well on ICS on our EVOs due to the camera hack that is currently in place, right? So why does the app itself run slow, randomly crash, upload black images, fail to upload, etc? I understand if it acts weird while taking pictures, because of the hack, but to my limited knowledge, how would that camera hack effect the rest of the software? Other camera apps (such as Retro Camera) seem to run fine. Is Instagram something that can be expected to work better later when the camera is worked out better, or should we wait for Instagram to be updated? I guess what I'm asking is: is this something EVO devs have to work out, or will an update to Instagram on the Play Store in the future fix this?
Kinda new to ICS ROMs, but here's what I've gathered from the ongoing camera discussions on the EVO Development forum:
(If I am incorrect/misinformed in any of this, feel free to call me out on it. I am just going off of what I have learned, and I'm sure it's not perfect. )
From what I understand, the camera framework/drivers used in most, if not all of these ICS ROMs is not quite compatible with the default camera of the EVO, which would explain the FC's and glitches experienced in many camera apps (including the default ICS camera, as noticed in early ICS ROM builds). The problems with Instagram, however, seem to be based on how they run on the OS in relation to the hardware of the phone. In other words, it seems to be an issue related to the phone itself rather than the app.
If Instagram does any updates in the near future that fix the problem, then disregard everything I have said. If not, well, it is something that may be fixed in later ICS builds, if not already fixed. Personally, I have not experienced any issues with Instagram at this point (I'm running Team D.I.R.T's CM9 1.5 with Mason v0.14 kernel), but you never know with these ICS ROMs.
MysticRhythms87 said:
Kinda new to ICS ROMs, but here's what I've gathered from the ongoing camera discussions on the EVO Development forum:
(If I am incorrect/misinformed in any of this, feel free to call me out on it. I am just going off of what I have learned, and I'm sure it's not perfect. )
From what I understand, the camera framework/drivers used in most, if not all of these ICS ROMs is not quite compatible with the default camera of the EVO, which would explain the FC's and glitches experienced in many camera apps (including the default ICS camera, as noticed in early ICS ROM builds). The problems with Instagram, however, seem to be based on how they run on the OS in relation to the hardware of the phone. In other words, it seems to be an issue related to the phone itself rather than the app.
If Instagram does any updates in the near future that fix the problem, then disregard everything I have said. If not, well, it is something that may be fixed in later ICS builds, if not already fixed. Personally, I have not experienced any issues with Instagram at this point (I'm running Team D.I.R.T's CM9 1.5 with Mason v0.14 kernel), but you never know with these ICS ROMs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's about what I was figuring, though I might have to give your ROM/kernel combo a try to see if that fixes it. I have yet to run an ICS ROM that works with Instagram, though that seems to be the only app that I get issues out of. Similar apps (such as Retro Camera, Hipster, Pixlr-o-matic, and Streamzoo) haven't given me issues at all.
chrisliphart said:
That's about what I was figuring, though I might have to give your ROM/kernel combo a try to see if that fixes it. I have yet to run an ICS ROM that works with Instagram, though that seems to be the only app that I get issues out of. Similar apps (such as Retro Camera, Hipster, Pixlr-o-matic, and Streamzoo) haven't given me issues at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would be worth a shot, I'd say. The ROM runs smooth as silk (I'd recommend OC'ing no higher than 1.19 GHz if you want full cooperation from your phone), most apps/games work fine and dandy, and battery life is pretty sweet overall.
The only things it's really missing are 4G (which no ICS ROM has), front facing camera (again, no ICS ROM has it), and a working camcorder (though third-party apps usually work well) Given those key points, and my experience with these ROMs, this may just be the most functional ICS ROM out there. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, though, and you just heard mine.
I want to know what you guys think of the new Jellybean ROMs that we've all been blessed with. Are you happy with it? Any comments, anything? Just wanted to hear what you all think about the new OS on our tablets.
Personally I love it more than anything. Honeycomb and ICS have been nothing but pure lag, from stock ROMs to custom ROMs. I never thought I'd see the day this tablet actually performed smoothly, so when Jellybean first arrived (and pretty damn fast, as well), I was excited. Tried the ROM and loved it, it's just ridiculously smooth, and it works. Now I still get lag playing MC3 or Monster Life, but those are heavy games and Gameloft is pretty ****ty when it comes to properly making an Android game so that's excused. But other games like Dead Trigger work without a hitch, and emulators no longer suffer either. And just for being Android, it gets even better since I can use a wireless mouse over USB OTG, a BT keyboard, and a PS3 controller for games and emulators. All thanks to Jellybean, my tablet is awesome now
And also a thanks to MapleSyrup and pershoot, for the two that gave us Jellybean ROMs at all
Yes, i like cyanogenmod 10, it's smooth and I haven't really noticed any over the top bugs...Battery life could be better but i prefer to sacrifice battery for that smoothness... And now that leads me to Samsung and their ****ty update plan...I mean come on i have waited 8 months to get ICS that lags like hell and doesn't play youtube videos correctly?...They should have just skipped ICS and focus on jelly bean...Other tablets are getting jellybean and we just got ICS, wonder how much will it take them to provide the stock jellybean...another 8 months?(i'm a fan of touchwiz that's why i *****...and i don't want a 7 inch tablet(nexus 7)).
I Skype lots so need a working camera. Can't wait till CM10 has the camera driver. Any word on wheh this can be expected ?
I have cm10 and it seems so fast but a Quadrant test must tell it's value...the previous tests show that ICS is faster but JB's graphics are better...
Now that the rear camera is working the ROM is worth flashing(I never use the camera but couldn't bear it's loss...).
What do you TouchWiz fans think about putting it on the JB?it seems possible,doesn't it?let me know... ...
arashtarafar said:
I have cm10 and it seems so fast but a Quadrant test must tell it's value...the previous tests show that ICS is faster but JB's graphics are better...
Now that the rear camera is working the ROM is worth flashing(I never use the camera but couldn't bear it's loss...).
What do you TouchWiz fans think about putting it on the JB?it seems possible,doesn't it?let me know... ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason Quadrant scores are lower in JB is because JB puts the UI at a higher priority, basically to keep the whole thing smooth. Antutu's latest update takes that into account and as far as I know, it's the only benchmark app that has been updated for Jellybean.
I keep installing ROMs on here to find the smoothest reliable ICS or JB, and CM10 is working beautifully for me. I especially like the subtle mods, like weather on the lock screen, email count in status bar, ability to enter settings without the app you were in being closed by the system, three action lockscren... the list goes on.
Definitely gets my vote unless you can't live without camera.
Sent from my GT-P7510 using xda app-developers app
Nacho Zits said:
I Skype lots so need a working camera. Can't wait till CM10 has the camera driver. Any word on wheh this can be expected ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here. I won't flash until we have a working front camera either. Hopefully it's done soon...
I would like to know why data package is not supported on gsm I try to pay data for my tab and once I received confirmation of the debit my tab keeps displaying no internet connection it only allows to navigate through the WiFi does any one knows how to fix it...
Sent from my GT-P7500 using Tapatalk 2
I'm very happy with CMX. I'm glad I like it because I'm having a lot of trouble trying to go to other ROMs right now for the sake of checking them out - but I'll tell ya, there are probably way worse ROMs to be stuck on! I also have CMX on my S2 and am so in love with JB I don't know if I want to go back from a daily driver perspective.
StevenBX said:
Same here. I won't flash until we have a working front camera either. Hopefully it's done soon...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually used CM10 Preview by pershoot and was highly impressed by the performance and smoothness. However, I recently started to require skyping for work related meetings so had to switch back to ICS 4.0.4. When JB works with front camera, expect me to be the first in line.
Sent from my GT-P7510 using xda app-developers app
Android 4.1.1? which one? confused like hell!?
Maybe it is only me confused here. and this is my first post, so be gentle
so I got excited when Samsung finally release Android 4.0.4!, could not wait so I downloaded UK Galaxy Tab 10.1 wifi (I have US one).
all good, but still not smooth, slow, then realize we need Android 4.1.1 (I have Google Nexus 7)...so jumped here, checking JB ROMs. that's when I start get confused. which one should I download that has less bug? Android 4.1.1 - CyanogenMod 10? or Toldo's JellyBeanRom ICS v5? or MapleSyrup's JellyBeanRom ICS? when you read each post (usually hundreds of replies), you even got more confused...
don't take me wrong, I love what our developer is giving us! even if this my first post, I already donated. however, it would be so helpful if there's new thread that lists all JB ROMs, and clearly outlines what works and what does not works, of any additional fixes. Now my galaxy tab 10.1 sitting there, staring at me, and dying to get on JB
Cheers to all:good:
J.
I've been using CM10 builds from Pershoot and I've been really pleased. Fast, responsive, and all the apps I use day-to-day work beautifully. Battery life is trouble-free. I do occasionally get lockups, but I'm too lazy to try to identify how -- a lot of the time, it's opening large PDFs. Otherwise, most tasks are trouble-free. Rear cam works beautifully.
Unfortunately, I'm cursed with an SCH-i905 -- and no 4G LTE until Samsung gets off their ass and releases source that pershoot can merge. When that day comes, I will wet my pants in excitement.
I have a 4G LTE phone as well, so I just tether the tablet, and life is grand... but I sure would love to have it natively working on my tab. For a few months I had to revert back to stock HC on it because I needed the 4G... now that I've switched back to CM, I've been very happy.
Caede said:
I've been using CM10 builds from Pershoot and I've been really pleased. Fast, responsive, and all the apps I use day-to-day work beautifully. Battery life is trouble-free. I do occasionally get lockups, but I'm too lazy to try to identify how -- a lot of the time, it's opening large PDFs. Otherwise, most tasks are trouble-free. Rear cam works beautifully.
Unfortunately, I'm cursed with an SCH-i905 -- and no 4G LTE until Samsung gets off their ass and releases source that pershoot can merge. When that day comes, I will wet my pants in excitement.
I have a 4G LTE phone as well, so I just tether the tablet, and life is grand... but I sure would love to have it natively working on my tab. For a few months I had to revert back to stock HC on it because I needed the 4G... now that I've switched back to CM, I've been very happy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
-----------------------
so CM10 build that you use is from : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1787399
it is safe to say that I can flash my galaxy tab 10.1 wifi (which is now on stock android 4.0.4) with CM10 build, and all works perfect no issue other than front camera?
djmatt604 said:
I'm very happy with CMX. I'm glad I like it because I'm having a lot of trouble trying to go to other ROMs right now for the sake of checking them out - but I'll tell ya, there are probably way worse ROMs to be stuck on! I also have CMX on my S2 and am so in love with JB I don't know if I want to go back from a daily driver perspective.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is CM10, even the developers hate to hear it called CMX... This is Android, not Crapple!
For me, it is running great on both my tablet and my phone minus the occasional scrambled boot on my tablet (never happened on cm9 or any other roms) which I still get after updating to the official ICS boot loaders. But, it seems way more polished and complete then the early versions of CM9. I have made it my daily driver on both devices. Battery life is better than 4.0.4 also as long as you turn off Google now and so e of the location services. It will only get better with time...
BAHA - Crapple.
Yeah sorry about that - it does say CM10 in my sig, I just got lazy typing last night. My bad.
bkress said:
It is CM10, even the developers hate to hear it called CMX... This is Android, not Crapple!
For me, it is running great on both my tablet and my phone minus the occasional scrambled boot on my tablet (never happened on cm9 or any other roms) which I still get after updating to the official ICS boot loaders. But, it seems way more polished and complete then the early versions of CM9. I have made it my daily driver on both devices. Battery life is better than 4.0.4 also as long as you turn off Google now and so e of the location services. It will only get better with time...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So Crappie owns the letter X? I use it as a roman numeral when abbreviating CM.
Also, I'm curious, what difference do the ICS bootloader provide? Is it a noticeable improvement?
GazaIan said:
So Crappie owns the letter X? I use it as a roman numeral when abbreviating CM.
Also, I'm curious, what difference do the ICS bootloader provide? Is it a noticeable improvement?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha, of course they don't own it... I just heard entropy tell someone in another thread not to call it cmx Since the boot animation that coined the cmx name is in no way official and they (cm10 dev team) have never called it that. If people are searching for answers about cm10 and people are calling it cmx, it may confuse users and make them think cmx is something different. We all know it is not, but we should all be using the real name for consistency purposes, right? I didn't mean to be an a**, just stating the facts.
Whereas CM10 is still in alpha stage, I can say that it works very well! This promises to be the best ROM.:laugh:
I was running MapleSyrup's AOSP JellyBean build for about a week and then switched over to pershoot's CM10. While I found they were very similar I stuck with CM10 because it feels a bit smoother. I had a little issue with a scrambled screen when booting where only for a second or two the screen was rolling but cleared up afterwards. I did not have a rolling recovery screen. I updated the bootloader to the ICS version and it's been great since. I also haven't had any SOD's either when charging overnight or just sitting there.
The only issue which I still have is Youtube HD videos get very choppy and this happened on both JB builds.
But another good news tidbit is that HBO GO was updated to support JB and that was the only thing I was missing since running an ICS rom. And it seems to work perfectly!
So, thanks go out to Maple and pershoot and all the other devs out there that contribute to getting us up to speed. I was just over my dad's house and updated his GTab to ICS for him and all the while I was chuckling because I've been running JellyBean for a while before he even got ICS!
rpoitras said:
I was running MapleSyrup's AOSP JellyBean build for about a week and then switched over to pershoot's CM10. While I found they were very similar I stuck with CM10 because it feels a bit smoother. I had a little issue with a scrambled screen when booting where only for a second or two the screen was rolling but cleared up afterwards. I did not have a rolling recovery screen. I updated the bootloader to the ICS version and it's been great since. I also haven't had any SOD's either when charging overnight or just sitting there.
The only issue which I still have is Youtube HD videos get very choppy and this happened on both JB builds.
But another good news tidbit is that HBO GO was updated to support JB and that was the only thing I was missing since running an ICS rom. And it seems to work perfectly!
So, thanks go out to Maple and pershoot and all the other devs out there that contribute to getting us up to speed. I was just over my dad's house and updated his GTab to ICS for him and all the while I was chuckling because I've been running JellyBean for a while before he even got ICS!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am on MapleSyrup's AOSP JellyBean, and you said "updated the bootloader to the ICS version"? I am a little confused. .how do you do that? what the benefit? I am assuming when you said bootloader to ICS version, you meant latest ICS stock?
I have been a very satisfied user of Task's GB and now ICS Roms. It seems, however that enhancements to his recent ICS release have stalled. There is some question if any further enhancements will be forthcoming. This is not a terrible thing because the Task "Beginning" ICS release is very stable. On the other hand, I wonder if there is anything out there right now that might improve the way my Tab performs.
With that in mind, I am curious if any of the JB Roms currently in development offer an improved user experience when compared to what I am using now. From what I can tell from reading other threads in this forum, most of the Jellybean releases for the GT7510 still have a few problems, (camera, WIFI, etc.). Is there anything out there that approaches the stability of Task ICS while offering some significant performance enhancements?
I am hopeful that someone with some experience using JB on the GT7510 can offer an opinion.
Thanks in advance.
P7510 owner here so I'll chime in.
For now the benefits of the JB builds don't out weigh the disadvantages associated with the bugs in them. My everyday driver is still the odexed stock rooted ICS. I have Nandroids of CM9 and CM10 builds to putz around with when a new build is built by someone.
Pershoot is going to start concentrating on CM10 though so there should be consistent JB builds soon enough. I would do as I am. Stay on ICS as your daily driver and just keep an eye out on the development scene.
I have been using Maple's AOSP JB rom, and aside from video capture and front facing camera issues, everything is so much better than honeycomb. The only glitches I have encountered besides these are minor screen flicker during boot animation (not during use) and extreme lag when using panorama mode (takes about a minute to process). Since I don't use my camera, this ROM is perfect. Battery life is much better (than honeycomb, at least). Don't have much experience with ICS. Much smoother, and Google now is great. Overall, unless you're a camera heavy user, and the tab has an awful camera, or like Web chats, really no cons.
I'm using this for 2 days now ,0 issues,both cameras work,
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=32074411
Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2
Depends on your usage.
If you re a Skyper.... Jb roms doesn't fit you. Go for jelly bean ics v6.
Incase you don't use the tab's camera as most of us, and more of a media user, jb is yours. I use my tab for movies during travel time and for books. Jb rom plays even 720p mkv files smoothly. I've never got that performance anywhere.
Incase of stock ics go with a custom kernel with built in tweaks.
Tapatalked using my galaxy y
dsafety said:
I have been a very satisfied user of Task's GB and now ICS Roms. It seems, however that enhancements to his recent ICS release have stalled. There is some question if any further enhancements will be forthcoming. This is not a terrible thing because the Task "Beginning" ICS release is very stable. On the other hand, I wonder if there is anything out there right now that might improve the way my Tab performs.
With that in mind, I am curious if any of the JB Roms currently in development offer an improved user experience when compared to what I am using now. From what I can tell from reading other threads in this forum, most of the Jellybean releases for the GT7510 still have a few problems, (camera, WIFI, etc.). Is there anything out there that approaches the stability of Task ICS while offering some significant performance enhancements?
I am hopeful that someone with some experience using JB on the GT7510 can offer an opinion.
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am one of those that immediately flashed JB AOSP by Maple as soon as it was available, but over the last few months I have grown increasingly dissatisfied with the rom. It's not that the rom is bad, but with the camera still not working and the occasionally bug/glitch that completely locks up my tab when I need it most, I decided a few days ago to go back to one of the ICS roms.
I first went back to Task 650's ics rom which I thought was great, but it seems that development has slowed considerably on that rom, and I could not live with the constant SOD's when charging (for some reason I could not find the "keep awake when charging" setting in the developer options that most other roms have.
So I flashed Ganborous CM9 based rom and I am loving it. Along with the rom, I flashed the Google Now for ICS package, and I also flashed a custom boot animation and now I think this rom is perfect. I haven't had a SOD (it has the developer option to keep awake), and I haven't had my tab lock-up or crash on me.
Once some more development on JB roms occurs (like Pershoots upcoming CM10 or even an update from Maple when/if he gets his Tab fixed) I may go back, but for now I atleast have a rock solid ICS rom with Google Now working.
Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2
I'm AOKP ICS and my tab runs great, no camera's but it's a tablet and I don't use it for the camera. I think mine is milestone 4 and CPU set at 1000 Max 912 Min, I think its 912.
Sent from my GT-P7510/AOKP using XDA Premium HD app
I could love with the Job rooms if the rear camera didn't work because I don't take pictures with my tab, but not having a front came means that I can't use my tab to video chat or Skype.
Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2
I was a task 14 rom user myself then I made the big jump to aokp milestone 6. Hooked since. My sgs4g is on aokp as well with working camera, love what team kang are doing.
I have a rooted Defy+, from which I already removed all the cruft I don't need. I am mostly happy with the phone, but there are a few quirks which are making me consider changing to a custom ROM to get a more recent Android version (rather than Gingerbread, 2.3.6).
However, I am concerned about the drawbacks of doing so. For instance, one of my brothers runs a custom ROM as well, and he suffers from random reboots around twice a week.
If I want the best reliability, are the official ROMs my only choice? Or do some of the custom ROMs manage uptime in the range of weeks/months? Also, is there anything else I'd be giving up by changing? Like, I don't know, device drivers/features? (Motorola specific software as MotoBlur I couldn't care less about).
What are your experiences in these areas? I imagine ICS-based ROMs are much more stable than JB ones, but how much?
reply
JB is in my opinion quite stable when considering Sevenrock's version. I have been using Sevenrock's 20130209 CM10 for a month now and I haven't experienced any random reboot. ICS is quite stable with the exception of Wi-Fi tether which is unstable.
You will lose the wallpapers, notification sounds,ringtones,etc. of the official rom while upgrading.
Thanks, a month of uptime sounds quite acceptable.
Regarding loss of features, I can assume that the waterproof/shockproof/etcproof features of the phone are still intact? Those are the actual features that I really care about (the most, at least).
I'll probably try updating to a custom ROM that is considered stable by the maintainers later on
Hello'
I can tell you that on CM10, VPN Tunneling doesn't work
there is a ringtone bug too ( after ? time )
Re: [Q] Defy+: What is lost by changing from the official (rooted) ROM to a custom on
You lose proper 720p recording and overall speed
Waterproof and shock proof etc are hardware features
CM7 and latest CM10 and MS2Ginger are the most "stable", and of these MS2Ginger being stock based has proper 720p recording
Sent from my MB526 using xda premium
thekguy said:
You lose proper 720p recording and overall speed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Overall speed? Compared to what? To the stock ROM? I was always under the impression that updating the Android version from Gingerbread to ICS or JB would result in a snappier interface.
Anyway, the other "lost" features mentioned so far don't impact me personally at all, so it sounds like it should be safe to update.
Regarding waterproof/etc being hardware features, I recall reading somewhere else that a certain custom ROM did not support that which is why I felt the need to ask.
Thanks again for the additional information.
Re: [Q] Defy+: What is lost by changing from the official (rooted) ROM to a custom on
The stock rom is snappier, but the launcher is not really smooth. By snappier I mean response time. Cm10 is smooth but not very snappy
All custom roms support waterproof/other features.
Sent from my MB526 using xda premium
thekguy said:
The stock rom is snappier
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting... looks like I should really try to stick to the stock ROM, after all.
Thanks for all the information, guys, I will consider this topic as dealt with.
What is lost?
>1 minute delay opening google maps
frustration at slow interface
need to recharge every couple of hours
stability / peace of mind
I'm on quarx CM10 20130217 made faster by blechdose cfs 14/03 kernel - really smooth and nice to use. 20130220 was okay, stable and smooth-ish, but incompatible with blechdose kernel, so can't get it as smooth. 20130307, which backtracks further in search of stability, is frustratingly laggy (nowhere near as bad as stock though IMO) - at the moment I have 95 apps and >40GB of music.
That's what you gain, a learning curve, fun fiddles, some bits of the phone work smoother than you could ever imagine, which is great unless there is a bug in something you really want to use (luckily for me, there doesn't seem to be).