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Android is open. That's why I have my Samsung Galaxy S, my Nexus One and my Sapphire.
I have these phones because the open community can do better than the professionals, and I am proud to be a member of a community that has recently hacked Froyo onto the G1, Android2HD2 (and other Winmo devices), created great skins and themes, rooted almost every droid to date, hacked google navigation to work in other countries etc etc etc.
There is amazing work being done is this community.
Kingklick was able to put out a lot of ROMs which satisfied a lot of people. Contributors to Cyanogenmod (disclaimer. notably not Cyanogen himself) and others (fans and friends - disclaimer. note lack of word fanboys - of cyanogenmod, disclaimer. plus some others too) have flamed and flamed away about Kangklick (notably via twitter - I have stopped following any of those jerks that clogged up my feeds with what could've - screw that - should've been settled MUCH more privately..I followed you guys for dev news or the occasional interesting insight into your real life, not your petty bickering, but you have every right to post what you like...hence why I stopped following you all, I didn't flame you...note 'bigger man').
Rule 12 of XDArules clearly states that using the work of others must be done with permission, independent of whether it is open source or not. If this is not upheld then the post will be bought down, it does not say the user will be banned. I would understand the formality of taking the post down and requesting Kingklick reposts the ROM with due credit, but I believe - note believe...implies opinion - that moderators may have been influenced by pressure from other (high ranking, public eye) members and thus did not adhere to normal or just (I do not know if not giving creds is normally treated in this way, but you will discover I believe it shouldn't be) protacol. Kingklick broke the rules of XDA, but then again I see his banning as the least contentious issue here.
I believe that members of the XDA community in the public eye (ie with large Twitter follower base) due to their work via XDA (no matter what you say, cyanogenmod may be based at its own domain, but it still posts at XDA to maintain its public profile and feed of the massive XDA userbase, and is hence in part bound by this) have a responsibility to follow the rules of XDA on XDA rules and disputes. I do not think this is something which can be policed ('I'm banning you Wes for Trolling Kingklick...on Twitter'... not gonna work) but I think it is a moral obligation (anyone that thinks the internet is not bound by morality should take a reality check...the reason why we have open source is essentially ethics).
Do we give credit to Linus Torvalds every time we distribute linux kernels or work to do with linux? Do we give credit to those that helped him create this base? Do we give credit to Google for creating Android? HTC? Our carriers? Martin Cooper for inventing the mobile phone and cell networks? Time Berners-Lee for inventing the internet, giving rise to this forum, Google and thus the Phones/Devices we love and use? The fact is we don't give credit where due (although you may say its obscure to thank these people, they DO deserve our thanks). None of the ROM chefs/coders give all credit where due, but a lot do in part, with those directly involved. But who still thanks the original rooters?
Kingklick has been declared a copier by the jury...I haven't delved through the evidence to confirm this...but shouldn't we be much more relaxed about copying in general? All users should be open about their work with Android, but they are not. If kingklick based a build off Cyanongenmod, and gave due credit for that, he would be called unoriginal, despite his attempts to make improvements. I also believe that there should be transparency, a log of all complaints of interest and the community told in a statement from the mods why someone was banned...at least in part (keeping gory details to themselves thank you very much).
Donations are generally given by 'end-users'...noobs who can flash and maybe do some work on the builds but their contributions are limited. End users generally want user experience, and reward devs with commendation and donations. If kingklick does work on a build which satisfies more users and he hence gets donations, is that stealing donations? No. The original dev works on an open source project knowing that their work is open, but the end user can reward as he/she likes. Perhaps kingklick developed his following due to his branding...he did always use words like FAST and STABLE and SMOOTH, but Apple do the same and they're not banned from trading despite the hyperbole.
I do not doubt that a lot of devs thanks fellow devs with donations. Cyanogen is well known for donating, as is kingklick, however a lot of donations come from end users, and if kingklick replaces a few files using winrar (something which I generally contest, I believe kingklick does a lot of great work) and that satisfies more end users by being fast and stable and smooth (or perceived as being so thanks to branding) then he can get donations for that, they are a gesture of satisfaction and goodwill.
Kingklick was immoral by not giving true credit, however I believe that he could have been warned and asked to give credit once he got back from his night out (whether that excuse, or what ever his actual excuse was, was true).
I also laugh at the accusation that kingklick does not fill a niche within the 'open'/'free' community. This should not result in grudges and flame wars, whether it is true or not. Kingklick did fill a niche in my opinion: reviewers (and consumers) see vanilla android as being sterile. Hell it is sterile, and it's never going to be as successful as others if it doesn't sort this out. Cyanogenmod and other big names are based off this sterile form of Android, but they don't delve into Sense UI and other alternative skins, mainly due to preferences or copyright problems etc, not that that stops them with other things. Kingklick did work with these and he filled his niche by delivering great, fast, usable roms of these whilst others sneered at them for being inefficient coding or whatever...geeky snobbery.
Kingklick also delivered various fixes and things which other groups did not. I won't list all of these and I am sure representatives of Cyanogenmob et al will say 'we were gonna fix these issues anyways' or 'that's redundant' or 'that was patchy code', but kingklick has contributed. Obviously we have to hold ethics above output, we can not say that 'his holiness' (inteneded to mock those who believe cyanogen alone is a god, not cyanogen himself) Cyanogen's contributions to android exempt him from following conduct, but we do a great job of driving away good developers with flaming and telling tales. Perhaps you'll say kingklick was not a good developer, Drizzy, even Haykuro etc etc, but I only flashed Cyanogenmod on my Nexus once and I didn't like it for various reasons (personal preference yada yada) but I kept going back for more kingklick...whether that's perceived speed and branding etc or just satisfaction.
King's desire roms are great, but we never mobbed, trolled and banned the poor guy for not giving creds to HTC. Surely the morality of our community using software like Rosie on the Nexus is more ethically questionable than a fellow member of XDA's work, since HTC is a firm which employs people. I bought a Nexus over the Desire because I knew I could still have Sense and a bigger dev community, however the cost included in the Desire which goes to the developers of Sense is hence forgone (perhaps indeirectly, I don;t know HTC internal funding); therefore I have - and anyone who has ever flashed a Sense ROM or devved with Sense - indirectly caused loss of welfare for people who rely of developing as their source of income, tehir families, communities and economies. Surely that is less ethical than not saying thank you, but XDA has no problem with that. Perhaps it is too small to notice, but it will have an indirect impact nonetheless.
Yes kingklick should've said his please and thank you, but I think it's community hyped double standards, pretensical courtesy (not that I wouldn't give creds, it's just that pleases and thank yous are nice, but not actually useful). A wise man once said 'there is no threshold for immorality', just because kingklick did a larger 'crime' than the rest of the community in not giving his thanks out, that does not exempt the other rule breakers (ie everyone), it just means their punishment should be less severe...we choose to ignore it because it's less direct or forgotten about.
In conclusion, I think we should start a 'contributors to Android' part of XDA, added to by mods or specifically appointed members of the community (like the portal). This could be informative and could mean that forgotten about contributors could not be forgotten, but their contributions immortalised in the open community of Android. Even if the contributions become redundant, they are the foundations for the next chapter in the Android story.
Finally. www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html is a very good read..and think about what AOSP stands for (I'll give you a clue...Android Open Source Project!). Can you steal what is open? What right have others to dictate what can and cannot be distributed in the open aspects of Android code (ie the underlying OS and vanilla UI...I'm not confused with Apps). Perhaps kingklick was guilty of plagiarism? But so is anyone that claims they worked really hard in that kernel without crediting Linus and leaving a donation link to his family or favourite charitable causes. Anyone that says I've reworked the UI without giving credits to The Astonishing Tribe for the original Android concepts which all UIs are based off...
Android is closed, that's why I question this 'community'.
I am not proud to be a member of this 'community'...right now.
Ps. Cyanogenmob was originally a typo (using words like mobbed in my piece...Freudian slip on the keyboard rather than fat finger syndrome)...but I kept it in as I thought it was funny...the Cyogenmob should replace team douche IMHO!
Pps. Originally posted in Android Dev general but moved here as its Nexus dev themed!
im proud of myself for actually completing this reading haha. interesting read though.
cheddie said:
im proud of myself for actually completing this reading haha. interesting read though.
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Im more proud of you for successfully quoting the entire thing...I might submit it for my dissertation next year
HazzBazz said:
Im more proud of you for successfully quoting the entire thing...I might submit it for my dissertation next year
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hahah thanks for bringing that to my attention. had to edit it lol
To be fair I posted the god darn epic rant/essay/post...my bad !
HazzBazz said:
To be fair I posted the god darn epic rant/essay/post...my bad !
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No, I posted it! I worked long and hard last week to write it out. I am accepting donations to cover my time spent though.
All this happens because altruism is evil in the sense that it is a lie. Altruists demand payment too, in the form of recognition, appreciation, respect, reputation, and all these similar thirst for prestige.
In NOT giving recognition to comrades In arms who share a common need for prestige, it is theft among kin, robbing prestige.
Prestige is indeed a rotten currency.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Touche...topical. Doesn't really do anything against my points, I am saying kingklick is guilty among many but they are appeased because they haven't got flames burning them. I do believe that kingklick should always give credit where due.
caysman said:
All this happens because altruism is evil in the sense that it is a lie. Altruists demand payment too, in the form of recognition, appreciation, respect, reputation, and all these similar thirst for prestige.
In NOT giving recognition to comrades In arms who share a common need for prestige, it is theft among kin, robbing prestige.
Prestige is indeed a rotten currency.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
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Good point...the fact is cyanogenmod wouldn't be as big with as many great ethusiastic devs without the praise it got...but is that a fair compromise for contributions...
I really think that the issue is the same as black droid. The Problem isn't that king copied the rom and redistributed it. The problem is that he did so claiming that it was his work based off of CM. When in reality he downloaded a a finished copy of CM, compiled by the CM team, and then changed a few lines the build.prop, renamed it and asked for donations. I personally can't see how that is helping the community at all. I really don't care about King one way or the other but I do think that the people who do the work should get credit for it. They spend countless hours writing code for us to have for FREE. Code you yourself says is better than what google puts out. They do this in their spare time and ask for nothing but recognition. You think that is wrong? I am amazed by this. Really I am.
HazzBazz said:
Good point...the fact is cyanogenmod wouldn't be as big with as many great ethusiastic devs without the praise it got...but is that a fair compromise for contributions...
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Don't misunderstand me. Payment is due, for sure, and payment makes our world go round, but I do wish it were not in the form of mousy prestige, rotten evil currency that it is. Money is a much better choice, but prestige seekers pretend to loathe $ probably because $ is less ambiguous.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
They do this in their spare time and ask for nothing but recognition. You think that is wrong? I am amazed by this. Really I am.
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But they do not explicitly ask for recognition do they? Even the great cyanogen does not do that, because once they impose recognition expressly as a mode of payment you would recognize that their asking for your adulation and love would seen a more demanding payment than asking for cash.
And also the inconvenience of the prestige seekers being more easily mistaken for all the money grabbing corporations which they demonize.
I'd make it clear that I have not wanted anything other than cyanogen's roms during my g1 days, and adulation I'd gladly pay, plus I have donated in money.
These guys made android exciting and formed PART of the inspiration for the paid android developers. It is unfortunate that the society's misconception of altruism as ' good' destroyed a lot of the language required to denounce it as the evil it actually is.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Gr8gorilla said:
I really think that the issue is the same as black droid. The Problem isn't that king copied the rom and redistributed it. The problem is that he did so claiming that it was his work based off of CM. When in reality he downloaded a a finished copy of CM, compiled by the CM team, and then changed a few lines the build.prop, renamed it and asked for donations. I personally can't see how that is helping the community at all. I really don't care about King one way or the other but I do think that the people who do the work should get credit for it. They spend countless hours writing code for us to have for FREE. Code you yourself says is better than what google puts out. They do this in their spare time and ask for nothing but recognition. You think that is wrong? I am amazed by this. Really I am.
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it was actually jubehs rom he did that with.....
@OP, Omitting credit and stealing are completely different things. kk downloaded jubehs rom and changed 5-10 files and claimed it as his own. when confronted with this, kk said he compiled it himself even though the evidence overwhelmingly pointed at the other direction. He claimed to have built it from asop, when all he did was take someones rom and change a few files. if he said he "cooked" the rom from another (even without saying who) he would have been ok. But he continued to lie after he was caught which is probably why the ban hammer was dropped.
Most of this plus the damning evidence is located in the g1 section.
Also, android does not follow the GNU licensing, it follows apache, and by default, the devs who release their material here are also released under apache. Apache allows people to see the source so they can better understand it to develop, but people who use the source to develop something from it are not required to open source their works. they are also allow to put their own terms which would include giving proper credit.
AFAIK xda mods actually work together to decide on what to do with offenders. i know thats what they did for the wrecking crew (though some mods were less fair than others -_- )
PS: i havent used cyanogen mod since like 3.6.8 before the C&D lol
The sad fact is, it takes money to live in the world today. A lot of these programmers make good money 9-5 at their day jobs. The average computer engineer spends about 100,000 dollars going to college then makes about 60-70k per year after. This is working on a salary basis probably putting 40-60 hours per week. After that they spend another 20+ writing code for us because they like to. I can completely understand the devs wanting someone who copied and renamed their work to be banned.
That would be like you taking Johnny Cash's Ring of Fire, Calling it Circle of Fire and trying to sell it as your own. You would get sued, etc. Come on people how can you defend this guy, come on really?
Tl,dr the OP.
flybyme said:
Omitting credit and stealing are completely different things. kk downloaded jubehs rom and changed 5-10 files and claimed it as his own. when confronted with this, kk said he compiled it himself even though the evidence overwhelmingly pointed at the other direction. He claimed to have built it from asop, when all he did was take someones rom and change a few files. if he said he "cooked" the rom from another (even without saying who) he would have been ok. But he continued to lie after he was caught which is probably why the ban hammer was dropped.
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If this is true, he got what he deserved. I had a similar thing happen when I wrote a script for the iphone which gets about 75-100 downloads a day. Someone from a forum put their name on it, posted it saying they were up all night writing it and put a donation link at the bottom of their post.
When confronted, they lied and said it didn't work so they rewrote it, but a simple comparison showed the only changes made was to echo commands which displayed the author's name and some text about how to run it. They also had no clue how it worked and gave bad advice about how to use it, and there were a lot of people on that forum using it, having problems and asking questions.
I didn't really care, and I never got a penny for my work, but it forced me to think about it, and what I came up with was: what use is there in having that kind of thing around? They aren't contributing or advancing ideas, they're confusing them and possibly screwing things up.
The douche that stole my script went from "moderator" to "supermoderator" at that site. If that was your site, why would you even want to keep him around? I'm not a banhammer kinda guy, but there's no upside to allowing things like that to continue.
Im no developer, but i do see both sides of the story. But I mean this is no way to act.
[email protected] please tell your teamdouche to grow up. We all know it was someone in it that just made that name
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kingklick92
whoever made that account with MY name haha ur f****g retarded, Ill see you in court. You distribuuted MY name
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kingklick92
whether you were in the right or not.
I think credit should just be given when you use someones work just like you would want the same for your work.
Delete if not acceptable.
Oh for ****'s sake.
OP, you're being a white-knighting ninny. KK got what he deserved: "open-source" doesn't mean an eradication of common courtesy--and crediting is common courtesy. You're trying to weasel around "blah blah why don't we credit HTC and Google" which is sheer, utter, retarded straw man. We know who developed Android by implication unless you live under a rock. Not so with specific individual community contributions.
Besides, what did KK even do? All I saw in the N1 development section from him was ROMs based off other people's work slightly modified, or rubbish that never worked like his attempt to port Blur. I say good riddance. The fact that he managed to scam donations off people hardly helps his case. I'd sooner donate to the source/original contributors, not such a juvenile, plagiarizing, useless waste of oxygen.
Visit Groubal and sign the petition: http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
Retweet: http://twitter.com/#!/ibproud/status/52265679990169600
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/unlockmoto
UPDATE (14th June 2011):
We are now over the 10,000 mark.
I have now spoken with Motorola and gotten confirmation that Motorola plan to unlock every device that will get an update in the second half of this year. This will include maintenance & firmware updates, but is still subject to Carrier approval.
The promising sign is that Verizon has already allowed Motorola to unlock a device on their network, the Xoom, which utilizes the unlockable/re-lockable model that Motorola intends on using across their devices.
I'm still looking to work with Motorola in the coming months to help see if we can make this a smooth process for Motorola and the community.
You can read the article here:
http://ausdroid.net/2011/06/14/an-u...witter&utm_campaign=Feed:+ausdroid+(Ausdroid)
Please share this where you can and keep it alive. I will continue to work with Motorola to see if we can get this thing torn wide open.
UPDATE (26th April 2011):
We are now at ~8,700 mark.
Motorola has now responded to me, stating that they are looking at unlocking bootloaders across their devices late 2011.
The article for the story can be found here:
http://ausdroid.net/2011/04/26/the-little-aussie-taking-on-motorola-u-s/#more-8184
We're still seeking clarity around whether this will be for current devices or only future devices.
I couldn't have gotten this far without the support of everyone here. You guys and girls have been a huge support and help me turn this snowball into a wrecking ball.
Please share this where you can and keep it alive. I will continue to work with Motorola to see if we can get this thing torn wide open.
Previous Update (4th April 2011):
We are now at ~7600 mark.
We're starting to slow down from our initial boom, so I have now set up a Facebook page to see if we can wrangle in some supporters that don't use Twitter or XDA.
I will need your help getting this out there. So share the facebook page where you can.
I'm also looking to see if anyone is interested in helping me Moderate the page. Please PM if you are.
Original Post:
Hi All,
I have created a Groubal (online petition) to get a response from Motorola on it's bootloader policy.
>>This petition started for the Atrix, but I made sure that it was for Motorola's overall Bootloader Policy. I have reached 200 signatures in 2 weeks, but now believe it's time to expand this out of the Atrix space and into the larger Motorola Dev community.
You guys and your silly petitions. They wont and don't ha e to do anything.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
DarrellRaines said:
You guys and your silly petitions. They wont and don't ha e to do anything.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
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What can I say, I'm idealistic.
IMO waste of time.
Moto thinks they're God. Also, odds are your gorilla glass will be cracked before this bootloader.
On the other hand, class-action lawsuit is more appealing. Somehow get a lawyer to argue the users right to UTILIZE the hardware, as moto isn't. Lawsuits are the only thing corporations understand.
I did sign it, but I got no hopes...
tical2k said:
IMO waste of time.
Moto thinks they're God. Also, odds are your gorilla glass will be cracked before this bootloader.
On the other hand, class-action lawsuit is more appealing. Somehow get a lawyer to argue the users right to UTILIZE the hardware, as moto isn't. Lawsuits are the only thing corporations understand.
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While litigation may be the way in the U.S. it is not the way in the land down under. We have Government appointed watchdogs that provide avenues for complaints and comments. If a complaint is sufficiently raised to an Ombudsman the company the complaint is about is charged a fee for every day the complaint is not resolved.
Unfortunately the Atrix is not commercially available in Australia and thus I cannot pursue this in a typical Australian way.
If suing the pants of Motorola is likely to work, then I encourage any U.S. Citizens to do so (but only after carefully considering the cause and affect).
I am simply encouraging everyone to focus their complaints rather than spreading it across so many channels and losing it's potency.
Also: in all honesty, it's not really wasting that much time, since I would normally be wasting this time flashing experimental Roms, which I can't do due to obvious readons.
Signed and linked to on Facebook. It's no more a waste of time than flashing a rom...
edit hehe. You beat me to the waste of time comment
Signed it just a second ago!
I'll sign but this has a much lower chance of succeeding than the AT&T service petition, and I'm not convinced we'll see many results from that one.
CC Lemon said:
I'll sign but this has a much lower chance of succeeding than the AT&T service petition, and I'm not convinced we'll see many results from that one.
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But there's no harm in trying is there?
I think that when compared with the DroidX and Droid2, this phone will be available around the world. Verizon is one of the only carriers that still uses CDMA and thus smaller consumer base for the Droid series Motorola phones.
Once the Global Atrix's are released we should see a lot more attention as well as the European Unions attitude towards anti-competitive behaviour might force an inquiry.
Once again, I'm a tad idealistic and am very keen for your support as well as your constructive feedback.
signed~! but i only put 1% of my hopes in this and the rest 99% in the developers to crack the bootloader themselves!!
I support your cause; I have signed.
irenic said:
signed~! but i only put 1% of my hopes in this and the rest 99% in the developers to crack the bootloader themselves!!
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Well put. I signed.
With the new SBF file available we could start seeing more development, but would still be great to hear something from Motorola.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=989577
haha.. as if motorola cares. you already bought, its a done deal! they even promised 1080p recording on the specs sheet followed by "(in the future update)".. i seriously dont think there will be an update on this thing..
before you buy, they promise lots of things, "in the future update".
after you gave buy and after a while try asking for the update.. these f*cktards will just say... "what update?"
my hope leans more on supporting the developers who are working hard to crack this wonderful device.. rather than wasting time begging to motorola after you shelled out that sum.
noblewolf said:
haha.. as if motorola cares. you already bought, its a done deal! they even promised 1080p recording on the specs sheet followed by "(in the future update)".. i seriously dont think there will be an update on this thing..
before you buy, they promise lots of things, "in the future update".
after you gave buy and after a while try asking for the update.. these f*cktards will just say... "what update?"
my hope leans more on supporting the developers who are working hard to crack this wonderful device.. rather than wasting time begging to motorola after you shelled out that sum.
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Completely agree, but in all honesty, I had the time to waste.
The Dev's really are the ones that will get the bootloader unlocked or bypassed before motorola even decides to do anything.
The Dev threads are starting to get really exciting.
Sent from my MB860
Just a reminder to anyone who wants to get an official statement from Motorola to go to http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
and tweet or facebook to as many as you can.
Continuing the Battle
So we're up near the 200 signature mark now for the Petition. I've been in touch with Motorola about 6 times in the last 2 weeks, not giving up on this one though.
My last response from them was:
Dear Irwin,
I do apologize but there is no definite timeframe yet for the announcement of the bootloader solution for our mobile phones. Updates for the Motorola ATRIX will be posted first at http://www.motorola.com/Support/CA-EN/Consumer-Support/Mobile-Phones/ATRIX. I'm so sorry for that inconvenience.
We hope that you find this information useful and look forward to assisting you in the future.
For information about Motorola products and services, please visit us at http://www.motorola.com/
Thank you for contacting Motorola e-mail support.
Best Regards,
Neil
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So it's not a flat out denial of an imminent bootloader solution, but we're no closer either.
I will now create similar posts in the other Motorola forums on XDA and see if we can get our Brothers & Sisters to join the party.
I know there are a lot of skeptics, but I will keep trying. I don't have the skill to help the Dev's crack the phone, but I do have the patience to make our voices heard.
ikenley said:
So we're up near the 200 signature mark now for the Petition. I've been in touch with Motorola about 6 times in the last 2 weeks, not giving up on this one though.
My last response from them was:
So it's not a flat out denial of an imminent bootloader solution, but we're no closer either.
I will now create similar posts in the other Motorola forums on XDA and see if we can get our Brothers & Sisters to join the party.
I know there are a lot of skeptics, but I will keep trying. I don't have the skill to help the Dev's crack the phone, but I do have the patience to make our voices heard.
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"bootloader solution" can mean anything. it can even mean staying with their locked bootloader is their solution.
dLo GSR said:
"bootloader solution" can mean anything. it can even mean staying with their locked bootloader is their solution.
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Very concise point, but if you review this statement, then it's in context.
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=495971028278
Which is all included in the Groubal.
Signed. Maybe someone should design a B&W 8.5x11 printout that can be posted at universities to drum up support... I'm in a CS program and I'm sure there are more than a couple who would take the 2 seconds necessary to sign- I just don't know any of them personally!
the following is an email i received 2 hours ago... read on
The largest online protest in history has fundamentally changed the game. You were heard.
On January 18th, 13 million of us took the time to tell Congress to protect free speech rights on the internet. Hundreds of millions, maybe a billion, people all around the world saw what we did on Wednesday. See the amazing numbers here and tell everyone what you did.
This was unprecedented. Your activism may have changed the way people fight for the public interest and basic rights forever.
The MPAA (the lobby for big movie studios which created these terrible bills) was shocked and seemingly humbled. “‘This was a whole new different game all of a sudden,’ MPAA Chairman and former Senator Chris Dodd told the New York Times. ‘[PIPA and SOPA were] considered by many to be a slam dunk.’”
“'This is altogether a new effect,' Mr. Dodd said, comparing the online movement to the Arab Spring. He could not remember seeing 'an effort that was moving with this degree of support change this dramatically' in the last four decades, he added."
Tweet with us, shout on the internet with us, let's celebrate: Round of applause to the 13 million people who stood up - #PIPA and #SOPA aretabled 4 now. #13millionapplause
We're indebted to the people who helped in the beginning -- you, and the sites that trusted us -- Boing Boing and Mozilla Foundation! And the grassroots groups -- Public Knowledge, Electronic Frontier Foundation, Demand Progress and Fight for the Future. Press release is here: http://bit.ly/w4DYz0 and https://fightfortheftr.wordpress.com/press-releases/
13 million strong,
Tiffiniy, Holmes, Joshua, Phil, CJ, Donny, Douglas, Nicholas, Dean, David S. and Moore, Fight for the Future!
P.S. China's internet censorship system reminds us why the fight for democratic principles is so important:
In the New Yorker: "Fittingly, perhaps, the discussion has unfolded on Weibo, the Twitter-like micro-blogging site that has a team of censors on staff to trim posts with sensitive political content. That is the arrangement that opponents of the bill have suggested would be required of American sites if they are compelled to police their users’ content for copyright violations. On Weibo, joking about SOPA’s similarities to Chinese censorship was sensitive enough that some posts on the subject were almost certainly deleted (though it can be hard to know).
...
After Chinese Web users got over the strangeness of hearing Americans debate the merits of screening the Web for objectionable content, they marvelled at the American response. Commentator Liu Qingyan wrote:
‘We should learn something from the way these American Internet companies protested against SOPA and PIPA. A free and democratic society depends on every one of us caring about politics and fighting for our rights. We will not achieve it by avoiding talk about politics.’"
WOOHOO! time to grab my cold 6 packs of beer!
These were almost passed....but then the government took an arrow to the knee
Yes! I would have been extremely pissed if these had passed! Almost started looking at homes in Canada!
Mostdef said:
WOOHOO! time to grab my cold 6 packs of beer!
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Pass me a beer
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voohoo said:
These were almost passed....but then the government took an arrow to the knee
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Exactly man, we got lucky but then again 13 million is a lot people.
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now to take those 13 million to samsung to get an update! cheers!
I told you it will NEVER happen crap like this.
Se7eN43 said:
now to take those 13 million to samsung to get an update! cheers!
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I will love to see that!
xriderx66 said:
I told you it will NEVER happen crap like this.
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Never is a kind of stretch. It could and it will, just not yet. Freedom is earned not given, and when people become lazy, it is lost.
Great news though, hopefully this will make the MPAA and others hold off on censorship and blocking of innovative technology for a while.
"delayed" all of us have to stay vigilant about every thing like this.
SGSII
The bill didnt get dropped. Its been put on the shelf. It will rear its ugly head in a year or so.
Sent from my MIUI.us Sensation 4G using XDA App
a new problem! after SOPA/PIPA, its turn for ACTA just like SOPA PIPA
kazumahits said:
a new problem! after SOPA/PIPA, its turn for ACTA just like SOPA PIPA
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Yeah I know, that's been worst. They're going to have control over your isp if that passes...
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We have to be on the lookout for similar bills, its retarded how they lobbied to try to sneak it into law hoping people wouldn't notice. Glad this one is shelved indefinitely
Hi, a developer called pulser_g2 developer called codeworx made this petition for Samsung to be more open and be a lot more developer friendly, this petition is for all Samsung android devices, not just the s2. So I thought I would post it here in the hope a few of you may consider singing it please
http://www.change.org/petitions/sam...t-achieve-full-potential-of-purchased-devices
Thank you
Edit: Sorry I made a mistake, the developer Codeworx just heavily promoted the petition, pulser_g2 is the developer who made it, and thanks entropy512 for pointing the mistake out
danielsf said:
Hi, on the galaxy s2 forum, the cm9 developer called codeworx made this petition for Samsung to be more open and be a lot more developer friendly, this petition is for all Samsung android devices, not just the s2. So I thought I would post it here in the hope a few of you may consider singing it please
http://www.change.org/petitions/sam...t-achieve-full-potential-of-purchased-devices
Thank you
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Actually pulser_g2 created it - codeworkx is just pushing it hard. (he deserves to as he's the one maintaining CM9...)
Also consider pestering them on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/#!/search/users/samsung
Signed
10char
Im hoping the lack of posts in this thread just means people arent commenting in this thread but have signed the petition
I submitted this as a tip for the portal page, hopefully it gets picked up, since being on the portal would generate more interest in this
DT3CH said:
Im hoping the lack of posts in this thread just means people arent commenting in this thread but have signed the petition
I submitted this as a tip for the portal page, hopefully it gets picked up, since being on the portal would generate more interest in this
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Only reason it's not on the portal is because pulser forgot his portal password (He even said so elsewhere.)
(This petition was filed by one of our senior moderator team.)
I haven't signed yet, but that is because I plan on writing a fairly decent bit on why cooperating with developers will benefit Samsung in my "Reason" field and need a bit more time.
signed!
10char
signed
Signed.
10char
IMO, in this day when manufacturers are locking down devices and intentionally making it very difficult for any development, Samsung has really catered to this small community. Companies like Motorola go as far as sabotaging their products to prevent any type hacking, rooting etc.
Sure, Samsung's official software upgrades are slow but I give them a lot of credit for reaching out in ways such as offering some of our top developers free devices.
Entropy512 said:
Only reason it's not on the portal is because pulser forgot his portal password (He even said so elsewhere.)
(This petition was filed by one of our senior moderator team.)
I haven't signed yet, but that is because I plan on writing a fairly decent bit on why cooperating with developers will benefit Samsung in my "Reason" field and need a bit more time.
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LOL shows you what I know
Dont know any of the mods here
Joe T said:
IMO, in this day when manufacturers are locking down devices and intentionally making it very difficult for any development, Samsung has really catered to this small community. Companies like Motorola go as far as sabotaging their products to prevent any type hacking, rooting etc.
Sure, Samsung's official software upgrades are slow but I give them a lot of credit for reaching out in ways such as offering some of our top developers free devices.
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The problem is they have, over time, become increasingly antagonistic to platform developers.
They are now failing to comply with the GPL with kernel source for many devices on a regular basis. The Infuse AT&T update took a month for source to show up, and Samsung ignored multiple requests for source in compliance with the GPL. The one time they answered, they claimed that they didn't have to provide source because they had stopped providing the update - that's bull****. If you provide a binary to someone, you MUST provide them the source - even if you are no longer providing binaries to other people.
They go out of their way to avoid releasing source whenever possible - see the AR6000 driver fiasco on the Tab 7 Plus.
The Galaxy S II hardware donation to the Cyanogenmod team was nothing but a PR stunt. If you follow the progress of CM9 on the I9100, you'll see that in addition to not providing any assistance to codeworkx and xplodwild, they are actively throwing barriers in the way. For example, secure containers (used by many apps) are disabled if a custom kernel is used in ICS.
Compare this to Sony, who provided technical assistance to the Cyanogenmod team leading to their entire 2011 lineup being well supported by CM, and also open-sourcing their sensor HALs when they didn't need to. They have also provided OFFICIAL ICS alphas and betas including source in compliance with the GPL, while everyone else just has leaks.
Unless Samsung changes their attitude - my next phone will be a Sony or a Nexus of some sort.
Entropy512 said:
The problem is they have, over time, become increasingly antagonistic to platform developers.....
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Wow, I didn't realize all of that. As a GNex owner, I suppose I'm looking at things through rose colored glasses. I thought they changed a lot since the Froyogate fiasco which they received a lot of bad press. Thanks for the info, petition signed!
Signed
Especially since I have 2 Samsung devices currently
Entropy512 said:
The problem is they have, over time, become increasingly antagonistic to platform developers.
They are now failing to comply with the GPL with kernel source for many devices on a regular basis. The Infuse AT&T update took a month for source to show up, and Samsung ignored multiple requests for source in compliance with the GPL. The one time they answered, they claimed that they didn't have to provide source because they had stopped providing the update - that's bull****. If you provide a binary to someone, you MUST provide them the source - even if you are no longer providing binaries to other people.
They go out of their way to avoid releasing source whenever possible - see the AR6000 driver fiasco on the Tab 7 Plus.
The Galaxy S II hardware donation to the Cyanogenmod team was nothing but a PR stunt. If you follow the progress of CM9 on the I9100, you'll see that in addition to not providing any assistance to codeworkx and xplodwild, they are actively throwing barriers in the way. For example, secure containers (used by many apps) are disabled if a custom kernel is used in ICS.
Compare this to Sony, who provided technical assistance to the Cyanogenmod team leading to their entire 2011 lineup being well supported by CM, and also open-sourcing their sensor HALs when they didn't need to. They have also provided OFFICIAL ICS alphas and betas including source in compliance with the GPL, while everyone else just has leaks.
Unless Samsung changes their attitude - my next phone will be a Sony or a Nexus of some sort.
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very well said
Done
Thanks for the info...
Everything to help the devs...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
signed.. hope this petition will do something
Joe T said:
IMO, in this day when manufacturers are locking down devices and intentionally making it very difficult for any development, Samsung has really catered to this small community. Companies like Motorola go as far as sabotaging their products to prevent any type hacking, rooting etc.
Sure, Samsung's official software upgrades are slow but I give them a lot of credit for reaching out in ways such as offering some of our top developers free devices.
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Click to collapse
I totally agree.I would like Sammy to be more open, like Sony, but I understand they are a company and they have certain policies which will increase their profits...Since my tab has unlocked bootloader and I can flash anything I want I'm ok.
sent from my nokia 3210
Signed.... suggest you do also...
Sent from my Inspire 4G using XDA
signed........let us know how it goes
Signed. Glad to see this.
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Hi all,
It is getting to my attention that most Z1 users are displeased with the Unlock Btl Camera issue. I have now created a petition to show how upset we are at their lack of action towards this issue.
There are rumours circulating that Sony already as a fix to the issue, but is reluctant to release it, due to allowing the camera config becoming of public knowledge (therefore other roms being able to copy it), this has not been confirmed or denied, so the petition does not run under this assumption.
I take pride in the camera of my smartphone but I do like to modify my phone as much as possible.
So please I urge you to sign the petition below:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/xperia-z1-unlocked-bootloader-issue
If you know of other communities, please spread the word.
The body of the petition can be modified, If I get enough people voting on a better text!
marcyff2 said:
As it has come to my attention it is possible that Sony already as a fix to the issue, but is reluctant to release it, due to allowing the camera config becoming of public knowledge (therefore other roms being able to copy it).
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Do you have a source for the underlined bit or is it speculation ?
The above has now been corrected.
I want to bring to Sony's attention that we want the issue resolved and not that we/I believe that Sony doesn't want to fix it.
That's what copyright is for (outside of China), a good way for Sony to make some money if people copy. Like Samsung and Apple feuds
The link is not working for me
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Amritttt said:
The link is not working for me
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Are you getting a 404 error? Where are you based?
That's what copyright is for (outside of China), a good way for Sony to make some money if people copy.
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I would guess companies as big as this have patent disputes. But has every year happens Apple and Samsung are always on the court for those, because the money they make from phones, far surpasses the amount spent on courts, therefore making patent disputes irrelevant. I think, if and only if the rumors are true, that Sony is trying to avoid being involved in those.
Very good idea!
Everybody should sign this.
Why is there a donation link with a minimum of $2 in the petition? Don't see the point in it, besides to make money.
Simply ignore it, your petition is alredy there.
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