Related
If this isn't in the right place, please move it mods.
Basically I think that the market is a bit incomplete.
There are changes I'd like to be made and i've voiced my concerns with google.
Now I need the community backing to actually see these things implemented.
To read about the suggestions and comment, visit this link
http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Android+Market/thread?tid=3c9422da6b79a597&hl=en
I try and address problems with the market and even underlying Android issues that have yet to be resolved.
Add your input and they'll have to listen.
Good idea... You might also add to the list a way to delete apps from download that won't be used anymore. I have three in my download that I will never install again and can't get them off the list. Imagine a few of those in there and it starts to take up alot of space with apps you aren't interested in anymore.
I posted a reply there as it seems to have gotten some attention there. Some of the issues are already in feature request on android issues, I linked to them. Starring the issues increases chances someone will take care of it.
Suggestion added Jeffro.
Thanks for posting Areinu!
If I could make suggestions for Android Market:
(1) Fix all this missing protected apps for new device / firmware quickly
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=665742
This is silly issue and will only hurt Android platform. This will greatly discourage Android developers for making good apps.
I want to support Android, I want to make it success! I can do this by spending money on Android apps, but I simply cant because of this issue.
And I am afraid this will repeat once new firmware released.
Take a look how long this issue is ... ridiculous
(2) Remove restrictions on countries for purchasing apps
Right now, certain countries like Sweden for example cannot even see the apps!
(3) Add ability to FILTER apps TITLE
I want to "hide" all those WALLPAPERS, SEXY whatnot.
Android is nice, really nice platform. But this Android Market issues are blocking its success.
here in Denmark we can't even see non-free apps in the ma market. because of this, users of ex. iPhone won't even try the platform. its sad really.
Sent from my HTC Legend using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
Filtering is very much needed. I tend to view the 'just in' apps, but lately its just a list of MMCANDROIDs latest releases of boarderline under age Asian girls. Its really annoying that you cant block out the stuff you have no interest in.
I'm adding them as they come.
Post a comment on the page to make sure Google eventually sees it.
Hello XDA
I've written a security guide I have posted to quite a few Android communities/forums. This guide is intended for new users to Android so probably doesn't apply to anyone here. But I do think Android users deserve solid advice from the experts and with all the media scare tactics going around, now more than ever.
However, I was hoping that if some Devs had the time, they could give some of it a quick read. I'm hoping to get a more informed developer opinion on whether I missed anything or am mis-representing something or another. I'd like to make sure that my information is as accurate as possible, and since Android is a community thang, I figure why not ask some other devs if they want to have a look and chime in.
The one topic I havent really yet covered is rooting, so I know at least that much is missing.
Thanks in advance and please feel free to post all feedback -- positive/negative/or your favorite cheesecake recipe.
=================================
Background about Android
The first thing when understanding the security of your phone is to know a little bit about what makes it tick. Android is a 'lite' version of Linux with most applications that you download from the market written in Java.
The reason that this is important to know is that it means Android is very unlikely to ever get a 'virus' in the traditional sense. Part of the reason why is because Linux is a fairly secure operating system that protects various parts of itself from other parts. This is similar to how Windows has admin accounts and limited user accounts. Because of this protection, applications downloaded from the market do not have access to anything by default. You must grant them permission for each activity they want to perform when they are installed. This is a very important point which we will address a bit later. Also due to some bad choices by Google, there are a few exceptions to this rule that we'll talk about in the permissions section.
Nevertheless, while Android is very unlikely to get a 'virus', that does not mean you are completely safe from 'malware', 'spyware', or other harmful types of programs.
Types of Dangerous Programs
Probably the biggest/most common threats from applications on Android are:
1) When the developer/app tricks the user into giving the app permissions it does not need to do its job
2) When the app hides malicious code behind legitimate permissions.
3) When the app tricks the user into entering in personal information or sensitive data (such as a credit card number)
There are various ways malicious developers (also knowns as hackers or crackers) accomplish this. We'll briefly define each kind just to have a common understanding of the terms.
Malware
Malware generally is an all-encompassing term used to describe any harmful program. This includes spyware, viruses, and phishing scams (sometimes).
Spyware
Spyware is used to describe software or applications that read your information and data without you actually knowing it and reporting it back to some unknown third party for nefarious purposes. Often times this includes keystroke loggers to steal passwords or credit card information. Some people include certain types of Advertising tracking in this category (sometimes called Adware, see below). However that's a much larger debate we wont cover here.
Phishing
Phishing and spyware are closely related. They work on a similar principle: tricking the user and sending user information to a 3rd party to steal it. The difference with phishing however, is that the application (or website) will pretend to be from a trusted source to try and 'trick' you into entering in your details. Contrastly spyware would try to hide itself from being known to the user. One way to think about the difference is that phishing is masquerading while spyware is hiding, but the end goal of stealing your data is the same.
An example of this would be a app or website pretending to be affiliated with your bank or Paypal or your email provider (Gmail, Hotmail, Yahoo). However it can, and does, include any service where someone might want to steal your identity or password.
There have been known successfull phising attacks releated to at least one bank on Android.
Virus
The definition of virus used to be more all-encompassing. These days that term has been replaced by malware. Virus is more typically used to describe a specific type of software that takes control of your operating system and either damages it, or uses it for its own purposes. An example might be when a virus send emails to everyone in your email address book. Again this is the type of program least likely to be a problem for Android.
Trojan Horse
A trojan horse is really just a specific type of virus. It merely refers to the idea that the app pretends to be something useful or helpful or fun for the user while actually causing harm or stealing data. This term is often used to describe spyware and phishing attacks as well.
Adware
Adware is typically a bit of a grey area. Sometimes this is also called nuisance-ware. This type of application will often show the users an excessive amount of advertising in return for providing a service to the user of dubious quality. However, this type of program can often be confused with legitimate ad-supported software, which shows a mild to moderate amount of advertising while providing a useful service that the user wants. Because it can be hard to tell the difference, there exists a grey area from most anti-virus companies as to how to handle adware.
Warez
This is a term you'll sometimes hear referring to 'pirated' or unlicensed software. Often times warez forums and websites will offer "free apps" or "apks" (Android Package).
Don't be fooled by these sites, and do NOT download these files and load them to your phone. These files are stolen from the real developers by unscrupulous people who have no regard for the work put into apps by the developers, or the law. Often times they will even try making money off of the advertising on their "warez" forums. They are profiteers that do the entire Android community a great disservice, and hurt the developers. Furthermore this is very often the most popular 'vector' (method) of attack that malware writers use. Some go as far as stealing apps and putting them on the Android Market itself under different names.
If you are a user that cannot access the paid Android Market, there are alternatives these days. The most trustworthy markets (in my opinion) are the following:
- Android (Google) Market
- Amazon Appstore
- SlideMe
- Archos AppsLib
- AndAppStore (possibly)
- AndroidTapp (possibly)
- Verizon's Market (not sure if this is live yet)
- Motorola's Market (not sure if live or where, might be focused on Latin America?)
Other than these markets, I would not advise anyone to download and install an app from anywhere else.
However there are a few exceptions related to open source. These are places that independent developers can upload free and/open source apps. They don't guarantee your safety (nothing does) but they are not warez sites and are much more likely to be safe.
Open source or free apps: (very likely safe, not warez)
- XDA Developers
- Googlecode
- GitHub
How to Protect Yourself
There are no full-proof ways to avoid all bad situations in the world, but any sane person with a reasonable head on their shoulders knows that a few good habits can keep you safe for a long, long time in whatever you do. Here are a few tips I have learned from many years as a professional software developer and from reading these forums that have many people smarter and more knowledgeable than I about Android
Read the comments in the Market
This should go without saying. Before you download any applications, be sure to read the comments. Don't just read the first three either, click through and see what people are saying. This can also help you understand how well an app work on your particular phone or your particular version of Android. Comments should also be read EVERY time you update an app.
Check the Rating
Any app that fails to maintain abpve 2.5 stars is likely not worth your time. If you are brave enough to be one of the first few to download an app, this does not apply to you. Nevertheless almost all good apps have between 3 and 5 stars. To me, this is just a general rule to help find quality apps.
Check the permissions
There are many things an app can do to, and for, your phone. But anything an app can do is told to you when you download and install it. Before you download and install an app, you will be shown a list of permissions the application is requesting. Read them. Try your best to understand them in terms of what the application is supposed to do for you. For example, if you download a game of checkers, and the Market warns you that it wants to be able to read your contacts, you should think twice and probably not download it. There is no sane reason a game of checkers needs to know your friend's phone numbers.
To see the permissions given to an application after installation, go to the Market, press [menu], then [downloads] or [my apps], then select the app, press [menu] again, then press [security].
Below I have a list of some of the most commonly used permissions. The list has explanations of how important they are, what they do, and what types of apps might legitimately need them. This should help you get a basic understanding of what to allow and when to skip an app. Please feel free to ask about a permission or let me know if I have missed any.
Check the developer's website
Make sure the developer has a website and not just some Wordpress blog. This is often again a good indication of quality as well as safety. If the developer cares about their app they will likely have a relatively nice looking website or, if they are open source, a site on Google Code. Note: sites on Google code are NOT verified or approved by Google. However, open source is usually (but not always) more likely to indicate a safe application.
NOTE: This is not definitive indicator if a developer is good or bad, just one more peice of information you can use. Their are a lot of exceptions to this particular rule, as a lot of Good devs might not have anything more than a Blogger blog, and a lot of bad devs could just point to a nice looking site they have no affiliation with. However, the developer's website can be helpful just as an extra peice of information you can use in making your decision about the developer or app.
Updating applications is the same as installing them fresh
Each time you update an application on your phone, you should use the same diligence as if you were installing it for the first time. Reread the permissions to see that it is only asking for what it needs and no more. Reread the comments to see if anything has changed in the opinions of the users and to see if it still works for your phone. If you see that an application says Update (manual) next to it, that means the developer has CHANGED the permissions they are requesting from the version you have on your phone. This is not necessarily a bad thing -- but it should indicate that you should pay a bit closer attention to the permissions and re-evaluate them as needed.
If you are still unsure, ask around -- the community is your anti-virus
If you see an app you want, but it seems to be asking for more permissions that it should, or it's comments and ratings are mediocre, go ahead and ask about the app in these (and other) forums. You will often find dozens if not more people who know the answers and another whole bunch wishing to know the answers to the same questions you have.
I can't stress this point enough. This is the best part about Android. The community are usually the first to identify any Malware or dangerous programs, and are the best resource for finding quality apps.
Beware the Sockpuppets, Shills, and Spammers
However, like anything, don't believe everything you read. Someone who comes into a forum telling you an app is the "best" may be what's referred to as a sockpuppet or shill. I tend to be wary of people with low post counts, or who have unreasonably high praise for what seems a simple app, or anyone using the word "best" in a forced context.
Now these people are not all bad, some may just be excited, or not speak english as their first language. But it's common for sockpuppets to use the term "best" to try and get better search rankings on Google. Saying things like "Best Android App" "Best GPS." Other tell-tale signs include when they mention software for iPhone or other platforms without actually answering questions. Or just generally seem like their post is out of context or overly general (think about how horoscopes are made for everyone to relate to them). I often get spam on my blog that says things like "best blog post! love your writing style, you put things in perspective for me" which makes no sense when my blog was about my new app.
This is a fine line a very much a grey area though. Sometimes it can be very hard to tell if someone is a spammer. If you see a post or comment in the market you suspect is spam on a forum, report it to the mods, don't reply and start an argument.
Posting your own comments
After you have downloaded an app you can post you own comments. The comment will be visible to all other android users but it will only show your first name. To do this go into the Market and press [menu] > [downloads]. You should see five empty stars at the top which you can tap to rate the app. Once you have rated the app you should see an option to add a comment under the stars.
Being a good user
While this guide is about security, I think it's important to point out how to be a good user too. Android is a community and stems from open source and will only ever be as good as both it's developers and it's users.
So, if an app is crashing on you, try emailing the developer before uninstalling and posting an angry comment. Anything you post in the market will stay even if you have uninstalled the app, and you could do serious harm to a developer's reputation if you post very negative comments.
If you think the developer just made a mistake, or didnt support your phone, work with them. If they are unhelpful, then you can consider giving them a bad rating. This is especially true for free apps in the market. Remember that you, as a user are not "entitled" to perfect free apps. Most developers do not have Google's enginnering and QA team backing them up and even Google makes mistakes.
And while it's frustrating when things don't work, imagine how frustrating it is when you put long hours into something but make a mistake -- and then because of that mistake you can never fix the damage done by a rude commenter.
What does Google do to protect us?
Unfortunately at the moment, not a lot. They do police the market to a small extent and investigate any reports of malware. They several instances of Malware and actually remotely uninstalled the applications from users phones.
However, the Market is not like the Apple App Store or Amazon Appstore, there is no screening of applications before they are posted to the market. There are no draconian procedures or lengthy approval processes that developers have to go through to post applications. All that a developer needs to do is to 'digitally self sign' his or her application before posting it. This helps Google track any developers with ill intent, but it's just a way to manage malware after it is discovered.
What about Wi-Fi?
One of the things to remember when trying to keep yourself safe is to be very careful with public Wi-Fi. Whenever you connect to the internet through a public Wi-Fi you should never use any website that requires a password to sign into. The danger here is because you have no idea who is connecting you to the website your are trying to connect to. A good analogy would be like trying to mail a letter to your friend by giving it to a stranger in the street.
[guide continues below]
Permissions
When you install an application the Market will tell you all of the permissions it needs to function. These are important to read as it can give you an idea if the application is asking for permission to do more than it needs. While some legitimate apps often ask for more permission than they need, it should at least raise an eyebrow when deciding if an application is safe and of good quality.
NOTE: there are also some backwards compatibility decisions Google has made that will grant apps targeting 1.5 or earlier two permissions you may never see requested. It is my belief this is a security hole, but not a large one. The permissions are Read Phone State and Identity and Write/Delete files from the SD. I will elaborate on those below.
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Services that cost you money
make phone calls
This permission is of moderate to high importance. This could let an application call a 1-900 number and charge you money. However this is not a common to cheat people in today's world. Legitimate applications that use this include: Google voice and Google Maps
Services that cost you money
send SMS or MMS
This permission is of moderate to high importance. This could let an application send an SMS on your behalf, and much like the phone call feature above, it could cost you money. Certain SMS numbers work much like 1-900 numbers and automatically charge your phone company money when you send them an SMS.
Storage
modify/delete SD card contents
This permission is of high importance. This will allow the applications to read, write, and delete anything stored on your phone's SD card. This includes, pictures, videos, mp3s, and even data written to your SD card by other applications. However there are many legitimate uses for this permission. Many people want their applications to store data on the SD card, and any application that stores information on the SD card will need this permission. You will have to use your own judgment and be cautious with this permission knowing it is very powerful but very very commonly used by legitimate applications. Applications that typically need this permission include (but are not limited to): camera applications, video applications, note taking apps, backup applications.
WARNING: Any app targeting Android 1.5 or below (possibly 1.6 as well) will be granted this permission BY DEFAULT. And you may not ever be warned about it. It is important to pay attention to what version of Android an app is targeting to know if this permission is being granted. You can see this on the Market website in the right hand column.
Your personal information
read contact data, write contact data
This permission is of high importance. Unless an app explicitly states a specific feature that it would use your contact list for, there isn't much of a reason to give an application this permission. The one exception to that rule includes typing or note taking applications and/or quick-dial type applications. Those might require your contact information to help make suggestions to you as you type. Typical application that require this permission include: social networking apps, typing/note taking apps, SMS replacement apps, contact management apps.
Your personal information
read calendar data, write calendar data
This permission is of moderate to high importance. While most people would consider their calendar information slightly less important than their list of contacts and friends, this permission should still be treated with care when allowing applications access.
Phone calls
read phone state and identity
This permission is of moderate to high importance. Unfortunately this permission seems to be a bit of a mixed bag. While it's perfectly normal for an application to want to know if you are on the phone or getting a call, this permission also gives an application access to 2 unique numbers that can identify your phone. The numbers are the IMEI, and IMSI. Many software developers legitamately use these numbers as a means of tracking piracy though.
WARNING: Any app targeting Android 1.5 or below (possibly 1.6 as well) will be granted this permission BY DEFAULT. And you may not ever be warned about it. It is important to pay attention to what version of Android an app is targeting to know if this permission is being granted. You can see this on the Market website in the right hand column.
Your location
fine (GPS) location
While not a danger for stealing any of your personal information, this will allow an application to track where you are. Typical applications that might need this include (but are not limited to) restaurant directories, movie theater finders, and mapping applications. This can sometimes be used for location based services and advertising.
Your location
coarse (network-based) location
This setting is almost identical to the above GPS location permission, except that it is less precise when tracking your location. This can sometimes be used for location based services and advertising.
Network Communication
create Bluetooth connection
Bluetooth (Wikipedia: Bluetooth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) is a technology that lets your phone communicate wirelessly over short distances. It is similar to Wi-fi in many ways. It itself is not a danger to your phone, but it does enable a way for an application to send and receive data from other devices. Typical applications that would need bluetooth access include: Sharing applications, file transfer apps, apps that connect to headset out wireless speakers.
Network Communication
full internet access
This is probably the most important permission you will want to pay attention to. Many apps will request this but not all need it. For any malware to truly be effective it needs a means by which to transfer data off of your phone, this is one of the setting it would definitely have to ask for.
However, in this day and age of cloud computing and always-on internet connectivity, many, many legitimate applications also request this.
You will have to be very careful with this setting and use your judgment. It should always pique your interest to think about whether your application needs this permission. Typical applications that would use this include but are not limited to: web browsers, social networking applications, internet radio, cloud computing applications, weather widgets, and many, many more. This permission can also be used to serve Advertising, and to validate that you app is licensed. (See DRM for more info).
Network communication
view network state, view Wi-Fi state
This permission is of low importance as it will only allow an application to tell if you are connected to the internet via 3G or Wi-Fi.
System tools
Prevent phone from sleeping
This is almost always harmless. An application sometimes expects the user to not interact with the phone directly sometimes, and as such would need to keep the phone from going to sleep so that the user can still use the application. Many applications will often request this permission. Typical applications that use this are: Video players, e-readers, alarm clock 'dock' views and many more.
System tools
Modify global system settings
This permission is pretty important but only has the possibility of moderate impact. Global settings are pretty much anything you would find under Android's main 'settings' window. However there are a lot of these setting that are perfectly reasonable for an application to want to change. Typical applications that would use this include: Volume control widget, notifications, widgets, settings widgets.
System tools
read sync settings
This permission is of low impact. It merely allows the application to know if you have background data sync (such as for Facebook or Gmail) turned on or off.
System tools
Write Access Point name settings
I need a bit of clarification on this setting myself. I believe this relates to turning on and off wifi and your 3G data network. (if someone can comment and clarify I would greatly appreciate it and update this guide to reflect). Essentially however I believe this to be similar to the 'modify global settings' permission above.
System tools
automatically start at boot
This permission is of low to moderate impact. It will allow an application to tell Android to run the application every time you start your phone. While not a danger in an of itself, it can point to an applications intent.
System tools
restart other applications
This permission is of low to moderate impact. It will allow an application to tell Android to 'kill' the process of another application. However that application should have the option of immediately restarting itself.
System tools
retrieve running applications
This permission is of moderate impact. It will allow an application to find out what other applications are running on your phone. While not a danger in an of itself, it would be a useful tool for someone trying to steal your data. Typical legitimate applications that require this permission include: task killers and battery history widgets.
System tools
set preferred applications
This permission is of moderate impact. It will allow an application to set the default application for any task in Android. For instance clicking on a hyperlink in your email will bring up a browser. However if you have more than one browser on your phone, you may want to have one set as your 'preferred' browser. Typical legitimate applications that require this permission include any applications that replace, compliment, or augment default Android functionality. Examples of this include web browsers, enhanced keyboards, email applications, Facebook applications and many more.
Hardware controls
control vibrator
This permission is of low importance (but could be lots of fun). As it states, it lets an app control the vibrate function on your phone. This includes for incoming calls and other events.
Hardware controls
take pictures
This permission is of low importance. As it states, it lets an app control the camera function on your phone.
Your accounts discover known accounts
This permission is of moderate importance. This allows the application to read what accounts you have and the usernames associated with them. It allows the app to interact with permission related to that account. An example would be an app that was restoring your contact, would discover your google account then sned you to Google's login screen. It doesnt actually get to see your password, but it gets to work with the account.
Development Tools read logs
This permission is of very high importance. This allows the application to read what any other applications have written as debugging/logging code. This can reveal some very sensistive information. There are almost no reasons an applications needs this permission. The only apps I might grant this permission to would be Google apps.
What Does it All Mean? This Sounds so Scary!
It might sound that way but it is not, by any means, scary. The power of the market is actually due to the fact that developers are free to post updates and applications much more quickly and easily. But despite the security risks that this model creates, there is an incredibly powerful deterrent to malware in the community itself. Lots of people on these boards and in the market eagerly try out new apps and report back the safety and quality.
Again, the community is your best anti-virus app.
last updated: March 23, 2011
This guide by Lost Packet Software is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-No Derivative Works 3.0 United States License.
Good post.
Yes, well written and informative. As a developer, it's good to get this information into user's hands who may not know how permissions work. And the author makes some good points on how to be safe without massive fear of EVER downloading an app
Thanks to OP for a nice article. Do you mind if I copy it and post it on my website? You can send me a PM. Of course, I will cite you as the original source
Thanks much guys,
@Rootstonian
Yes you can copy it, but copy the one from my site http://alostpacket.com/2010/02/20/how-to-be-safe-find-trusted-apps-avoid-viruses/ as it has a few less typos.
It is licensed under the creative commons license (no derivative works, must attribute to me). This means you are free to copy/republish but you have to copy the whole thing and not change it.
Well written and informative! Thanks.
Ok, thanks. I'll either copy it in its entirety or just use the link you provided if that's ok.
Regardless, you work will be properly cited
Again, well done.
thanks much guys.
Also curious if anyone has found any errors or inaccuracies or misrepresentations etc.
Brilliant post.
While it has been rumored and feared practically since the operating system's creation, one of the nightmare scenarios for some unlucky Android users has finally become very real. Japan's second largest mobile carrier, KDDI, has gone where no carrier has dared before and has begun disguising advertisements as system notifications on their Android devices.
It seems that an app bundled with KDDI devices is the cause of the controversial ad system. The "au one market" is a secondary market application that comes with most of the smartphones on the carrier's service. This newest evil addition came in the form of an update which prompted the user with two warnings.
Quote
1. au one Market app stays resident even when you are not using the app, 2. notification space will be used to inform good deals to customers.
There are similar ad experiences from certain applications and services already in the U.S. but this is the first time we've seen this behavior from an actual mobile carrier. It's scary to think of this becoming common place so be sure to voice your opposition on this sort of guerrilla advertising to your carrier representatives before it's too late. This is also just all the more reason to keep your rootz skills as up to date as possible. Removing that carrier bloatware is becoming seemingly more and more essential these days....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source: RootzWiki
Read for yourself here
since i've installed an app (don't know which one) i'm starting to something like this on my status bar... do you guys know anything about this?
This sucks... Are they even allowed to do this?
@gigeaky
Check if you have Easy Mp3 Download or DroID3Tagger. One of them should be the Ads source.
Install Airpush Detector or Addons Detector from the market to find the offending app.
Nothing root+delete offending app can't solve.
That said, still sucks, they'll probably end any warranty or whatever services they may offer if they find out. I guess you can still delete any traces of root and send it to samsung. They probably couldn't care less if you uninstalled some carrier app.
I don't mind ads at all while they aren't intrusive. I understand their purpose and their importance. But being randomly interrupted by some notification ad is the worse kind of interruption, as useless as it gets, not to mention the unsolicited data traffic and extra battery drain. I can even see them going a notch up and create random popups out of that you need to dismiss. Now, i like android the best of all mobile operative systems, but i draw a line here. If google ever enforced this at system level with no way around, i'd leave android completely.
I agree, I guess all those stuff is from carriers and not from Google so that I think it won't be difficult delete it.
gigeaky said:
since i've installed an app (don't know which one) i'm starting to something like this on my status bar... do you guys know anything about this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I seem to be getting similar notifications, I can't for the life of me work out what app they are related to...
At least with windows 7.x you could switch ROMs and side load useful apps, with this safeboot thing and Microsoft's lame attitude to give us more of the features and apps that we want it's no wonder why Windows Phone 8 fourms and blogs are so boring. Way to go Microsoft.
Agreed. I used to come here every day but, now it's once a week (kind of how it was on PPCgeeks.com). No roms, No interop unlocks, no unlocks period.
If you want more discussion about WP8, I suggest going to WPcentral.com...It's pretty active over there...
I really wish a hack of some type would hit, this is getting old. I just want my custom colors back (like I have with WP7).... Advanced Config I miss you !!!
Nobody has been able to find an exploit yet , but I don't really mind lack of activity in forms though as long as cobwebs don't settle upon the entire ecosystem itself we'll be fine
DavidinCT said:
Agreed. I used to come here every day but, now it's once a week (kind of how it was on PPCgeeks.com). No roms, No interop unlocks, no unlocks period.
If you want more discussion about WP8, I suggest going to WPcentral.com...It's pretty active over there...
I really wish a hack of some type would hit, this is getting old. I just want my custom colors back (like I have with WP7).... Advanced Config I miss you !!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea I agree that WP Central has lost more action going on but it's all the same stuff; I mean how many reviews of itsdagram, Facebook, Angry Birds and Skype can one handle before they get bored.
I always use to wonder why XDA turned into Android forum almost over night; now I know why its thanks to Microsoft. I feel sorry for Nokia though they took a big risk and now MS is being stubborn.
sinister1 said:
Yea I agree that WP Central has lost more action going on but it's all the same stuff; I mean how many reviews of itsdagram, Facebook, Angry Birds and Skype can one handle before they get bored.
I always use to wonder why XDA turned into Android forum almost over night; now I know why its thanks to Microsoft. I feel sorry for Nokia though they took a big risk and now MS is being stubborn.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, it's the same *****ing over there sometimes. Don't get me wrong, it's a good site if you want new and useful Windows Phone news. This site used to be a WM haven, just like PPCgeeks was. As that is all there was at the time, we had WM and BB...they were all mainly used by business people or hackers like ourselves.
WP7.x was pretty hackable after a while (with custom roms for most phones and interop unlock for about 90% of the models) so it was pretty active but, now with everyone moving to WP8 (ex WP7 users and converts) and No hacks yet, it's slowed down to almost nothing.
Android is mostly hackable and most phones have or NEED a custom rom, so this became a haven for Android users. And for now, as long as they are not going in this area and trolling, there is no issue with it or at least, I don't have an issue with it.
I do think it's a matter of time, they will find a exploit in WP8. I know why MS locked it down, once WP7 was hacked, it opened the doors for the pirates and some people took advantage if it. Sure there was some cool underground apps but, it just opened the system for the pirates. They wanted to lock down WP8 to make the higher end DEVs come and create the apps and games people want, to grow the system.
Nokia was paid pretty well to make a change to WP and over all they are doing very well with it...and their market is growing.
I'm stil deciding if I am going to pick up the Lumia 928 or stick with my HTC 8X(full price, Not giving up my unlimited data)....Hmmmmm... I just wish I could use Advanced Config to get my custom tile colors back
^stick with 8x at least till Nokia world sometime in September because surprises are on its way
Personally I like the very secure nature of my windows phone, I have rimmed more than my share of devices over the years, so its kind of refreshing to k ow this nuts hard to crack. Nokia did take a big risk but I think its been good for both companies. Nokia has done well with exclusive apps in a starved market and there devices are aimed well at a growing group of android overloaded users. With apps like tumble, netflix, Hulu and others coming over the devices are getting more main stream support and with time that will pay good dividends too. All in all I have found little reason to "root" this device other than for the hell of it. They come pretty lean on apps out of box. The biggest thing people seem to be trying to do is get tethering to work without paying out to a carrier for it. Personally if that's basically the reason your wanting to rom so bad, go back to android its far easier get going. I ramble now though, to sum up phone runs great unrommed, clean eco system and very secure setup makes for an all around pleasant device. I think special rimming is more or less unneeded for these devices. Been running unrommed windows mobile 7 and 8 now for about two years collectively. Have android tablets all rommed and a s3 rommed as a backup device.
Sent from my RM-878_nam_usa_100 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Meh... I considered WP7 without hacks to be nigh-unusable, even though I stuck with a stock ROM. No way to have apps open files automatically, for example (but I could manually add the registry entries, and could write apps that knew how to handle them). No way to access the filesystem (but I could sideload Kindle ebooks using homebrew file managers). No way back up app data or messages (except with homebrew). Minimal control of theming (as a class, this was one of the biggest homebrew categories). No real control over multitasking (I like that the default behavior is so conserving of battery life, but sometimes I don't *want* Puzzle Quest 2 or Fruit Ninja to have to go through its entire launch process just because I switched tasks or let the phone sleep for a bit!). Severe limit on sideloaded apps (I have over 30 of them, counting small utilities that that I developed, and not counting outdated versions, redundent apps, or anything else I removed). No listener sockets (though this didn't require a very fancy hack). No C++ code reuse (same as the server sockets). No way to tell how much space each app was using (but there's a homebrew for that).
WP8 fixes many of the worst problems. We can now register filetype handlers (though Kindle still doesn't register .MOBI or .PRC, so no more sideloading my ebooks for now...), use native code (with restrictions, but it's better than the default on WP7), and theme our phones (well, a litttttle bit more than before; still not enough). They added some much-requested features (SMS backup, variable text size, ability to control the browser app bar at least a bit, WiFi on while sleeping, Skype integration) and of course the change in OS brought many other improvements (multi-core, removable SD cards, higher resolutions, etc.). However, it still has some big problems of its own. True multitasking is still very limited. Data backup is still iffy. Still no filesystem access (or ability to do anything outside an app sandbox except the official Settings tools). Still very limited sideloading.
I promise you, though, people are working on it. I'm one of them, and several of the other names you know from WP7 hacking are as well.
People like GoodDayToDie & netham45 make the windows forums so much fun to follow
nikufellow said:
^stick with 8x at least till Nokia world sometime in September because surprises are on its way
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea but, I am on Verizon....After a release of a model it will take 6 months for Verizon to get a phone that is almost outdated on release.
The 8X is so limited on space that it's driving me nuts, If I find app or game I want to try, I have to uninstall a Paid app to install it. It's getting too old. 8X on format is 11.5gb and the Lumia 928 is 23.5gb, a little over double the space might be worth it, depending on what I can get it for, of course.
The blogs are dead because places like XDA that centralize around modding your phone to improve performance isn't necessary when WP8 software already performs flawlessly. Go to blogs like WPCentral and the Windows Phone community is alive and well swapping out our black Lumia shells for yellow and talking about games and apps. Pretty much doing what we should be doing on a phone, not repairing phones that came broken.
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
I've been wanting to root/unlock my Lumia for one purpose only, sideloading my own developed apps. It's gruesome to try an app in the emulator all the time, but in a month that will be fixed with an AppHub account. And after that my real purpose for rooting/unlocking is gone.
Always fun to see what's possible on the unlocked device though, code-wise.
Sent from my Lumia 920 using Board Express
GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If there is one thing I do not understand about the new SDK APIs, is why on earth an app can not register itself to open file formats reserved by the system. IMO thats the most retarded idea ever implemented in the history of computing. And to make the retarded thing completely retarded, they made it so most common files are handled by system apps, so you can not override the file association.
I am really wondering what is microsoft going to do about these things. If they really want a marketplace full of games, facebook, youtube and instagram apps, then they should stick to their current plan. WP will never get useful in a broad sense.
I hope the update this fall brings new stuff, otherwise the platform will die soon.
GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? ... You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although I don't agree with much of his bill-of-particulars, I have to agree with GDTD's sentiment.
Probably, modders need to correct deficiencies. I'm down with MS or anybody else who steps up. I'm in no hurry to crack my OS open right now, though.
I am especially offended at Microsoft's pitiful PDF reader attempt. And some of the apps in the store make me squint. I want to see the author "Google" emblazoned on my YouTube app, not a third party dev. I sure hope MS is putting these apps under a microscope.
The joy of homebrew (and of a developer forum, like this one) is, even if your goals are different from mine, it's possible for you to make your own changes to the device. It's yours; you control it. That's what security *means*, or at least what it's supposed to mean: you (the owner) are in control of what happens.
Ever since the iPhone, though, the trend has been twoards more and more lockdown, taking control away from the device owner and branding this as "security". I don't like it, so I aim to break it. Ideally, we break it in ways that only work with a local attack; I don't want somebody else able to control my device (that really would be the opposite of security)... but I do want to control it myself!
Part of the problem is that there have been no updates in recent months. Portico came out, Nokia dropped some new firmwares last month. But largely, nothing has changed in WP8 since launch. Personally, I find that boring. Maybe I should have an Android phone on the side to keep me entertained with updates, but I find Windows Phone much more usable day-to-day.
It has been more than 6 months since the WP8 launch, and GDR1 didn't really add much. Microsoft should have planned to have GDR2 out by now, even if it meant postponing some features for GDR3. I think most of us would rather have small quarterly updates to WP8, rather than a massive upgrade once a year. It's starting to feel like WP7 and the Mango anticipation all over again, now that it sounds like WP8.1 might be delayed into 2014. Hopefully they come through with their vaporware enthusiast program to keep our attention in the meantime.
I agree with the OP. Cobwebs on this side of the section totally. A thread in a week may be? But there is something I often read on many forums. People who are happy (I know it's a very wide term) with their devices, I.e don't run into problems with their devices, see no need to lurk around. So actually, it is a good sign. It shows how well-thought after a WP device is.
And GoodDayToDie, even though I agree with everything u've noted down, I don't quite believe WP needs all of that.
Still no app data backup machanism. - Umm...Data Sense?
Still no custom themes. - Fair Enough, but again, WP IS NOT meant to be themed to the T
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC. - I believe this is for security reasons.
Still no filesystem access. - Why do you even want that when the system is running flawless, (yes the same word u scorned at.)
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?) - LOL! You gotta be kidding me right?
Android has the worst permission management I have ever seen in my adult life. Android gives wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy more information out than any OS out there.
Still no way remove "Settings" apps. Umm..u sure u want that?
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking). Multi-tasking is really good with WP8.
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it). - Fair enough, but not a deal breaker either.
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer. - I believe you are again entering the territory of themeing, already replied above. Every OS comes with it's own email client. I don't see the point here.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card. - Fair enough. By far the best point in your list.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth. - In what way?
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry. - Again, WHY? WHy mend it when it's not broken.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps - U can download the app(paid or otherwise) from the App store on your computer, put it on the SD card and say install from the Store App on the phone. Simple?
DataSense has nothing even remotely to do with backing up (and restoring) app data; where'd you get that idea? Vital feature that homebrew eventually made avaialble in WP7 but is missing in WP8.
"IS NOT meant" nothing! Somewhere under all that sandboxing and locked-down UI is a general-purpose OS running on top of highly capable hardware. It's "meant" to be whatever the owner fo the device *wants* it to be, including (in the case of many, many people if the popularity of WP7 homebrew apps is any sign) theming. Stop being an apologist for Microsoft; it's one thing to say "extensive theming wasn't implemented because other features were higher priority" but when you start trying to tell me that I'm not supposed to theme it, you seriously need to put down the Kool-Ade. Besides, the very claim is ludicrous to the point of disingenious; have you *seen* the WP8 ads? They all stress the customizability of the Start screen. To the point of suggesting you can "meet" a person simply through how they have their phone set up... those ads freaking scream "customize me!" Then you discover there's only a handful of pre-set colors, two background styles, and the ability to mess with the tiles; nothing else.
No, it is quite absolutely *not* for "security" reasons. Security means the owner of the device controlling the device's behavior. If somebody else (like, for example, the manufacturer of the device) is controlling its behavior, that is not security; it's lockdown. The sideloading restriction can only be called security if it's not your device but actually belongs to Microsft. Screw that. Besides, that argument makes no sense anyhow; if I can pay my $99 and sideload with a PC, why can't I sideload without one (or without paying)? The marketplace has DRM to mitigate piracy and that's a darn weak excuse to cripple a device anyhow.
When I can load my Puzzle Quest 2 savegames and other game progress and high scores, copy my PGP keychain, sideload my Kindle ebooks into the Kindle app (yes, this is possible on WP7), extract or replace the built-in audio files, and delete the junk which accumulates in the OS and uses up storage space (without hard resetting the device), then I will stop considering the level of filesystem access a problem. Until then, "running flawless" is quite worthy of scorn indeed.
Wow, I seriously question your reading comprehension. I never mentioned Android in this point, or anywhere else (except to point out that it has a lot of homebrew). But, for your information, the default permissions / capabilities handling in Android is just as broken as in WP8. The difference is that with Android, it is possible (CyanogenMOD did this, for example) to install apps without actually granting them all the permissions they ask for. On WP7, this wasn't properly possible yet, but I was working on a system to do it that hooked the app install process and allowed people to uncheck app capabilities they didn't want to permit.
Um yes, I'd like to remove the non-functioning Samsung apps (until they are fixed) that are taking up space on my phone's storage and making the Settings list longer. I can always re-install them if needed. Every other carrier or OEM app is removable; why should these get special treatment just because they have a field in their app manifest that says "install me in the Settings hub"?
Multitasking - true multitasking, where multiple apps can run at once - is nigh-nonexistent on WP8. Aside from things like audio background agents and once-every-30-minutes-you-get-a-few-seconds-of-CPU-time scheduled tasks, there basically isn't any multitasking (of third-party apps) at all. Fast app switching is *not* multitasking; every app aside from the main one is suspended, unable to do amything until brought into the foreground.
Changing file associations obviusly isn't a deal-breaker, or I wouldn't be using the phone... but definitely a problem. Windows has offered the ability to control file associations since at least Win95, and I think it was possible in 3.1 as well...
Changing the default browser and email client and calendar and dialer aren't "theming" by any conventional definition, but the point made above about theming stands anyhow: it's a matter of personalization. It can also be a matter of functionality (for example, the built-in email client can't handle S/MIME encrypted email at all and has no PGP integration). Or a matter of usability (I use folders a lot; it's a pain needing to expand a menu to get to them)! Or something else... the important point is that it should be possible. Every OS comes with an email client, but every OS except iOS (and WP) allows you to change the default email client, too. This isn't even hard to implement (the relevant registry keys were present on WP7, at least; carrying over the API to control them wouldn't have been hard at all); it's once again a case of Microsoft intentionally restricting what you can do with your phone. If I wanted a mobile OS designed by a control freak, I'd buy an iPhone...
Nothing more really needs to be said here, except that with filesystem access (create a symlink or junction in the apps folder, for example) this would be possible...
Many BT profiles, such as HID devices (for mice and keyboards), are missing from WP8. So far as I know, apps can't use the Headset profile either; the pseudo-turn-by-turn navigation on WP7 would give its instructions via the car's BT if possible, but Nokia/Here Drive must use the phone's speakerphone speaker instead.
When I can change default browser and text editor, create my own themes, enable features that a ROM shipped disabled (have you seen the thread by the guy who can't get visual voicemail?), sideload high-privilege apps (without paying for the privilege), and remove root certificates of CAs that I don't trust (in WP7, these were stored in the registry), then I will stop considering the level of registry access to be a problem.
If they're from the store, they aren't really sideloaded, just downloaded on a different machine. I'm talking homebrew, stuff that the isn't yet, or never will be, or *can't* be (because it breaks some policy of Microsoft's, or requires high privileges to work) put in the store. Besides, many of the most popular WP8 models don't have an SD card slot at all.
GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only thing I can agree with you on is the file system, bluetooth, and not being able to override the default apps associations (seriously, the default apps is the most retarded idea ever).
According to Samsung customer support and some members of this forum, this device does not have a built-in way of blocking Internet access for specific applications!
Many of those apps have permissions like "storage", "phone ID", "contacts", "calendar", "camera", "microphone", etc...
Therefore, when those applications are given Internet access they will be able to send all our data via the Internet...
That's why it would be of crucial importance and vital to have a built-in way of blocking Internet access to those apps.
For example, if an application has access to your data, to your storage or your contacts, it stands to reason that it should not have Internet access...
The only explanation for the lack of such an integrated system of blocking Internet access for specific applications can only be explained by the fact that Samsung and Google intend to have all our data and info sent over the Internet ... probably for specific domains ...
Google, Samsung or any other companies should not have, simultaneously, access to our storage data, contacts, calendar, camera, microphone..., and Internet access to send out all those data and info...
Besides, most apps are proprietary... so nobody knows what info or data the app is really sending out...
(Curiously and as a side note, my son has a Huawei P10 and that device allows the user to block Internet access to specific apps).
Therefore, given that this Samsung device does not have a way to limit specific applications from reaching the Internet, the phone is a spyware device!
Niccolò Paganini said:
The only explanation for the lack of such an integrated system of blocking Internet access for specific applications can only be explained by the fact that Samsung and Google intend to have all our data and info sent over the Internet ... probably for specific domains ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its google that doesn't want to implement an internet permission, we can block apps from access to storage/location/contacts and whatnot but not the internet, blame google not samsung.
peachpuff said:
Its google that doesn't want to implement an internet permission, we can block apps from access to storage/location/contacts and whatnot but not the internet, blame google not samsung.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, blame them both. Samsung is knowingly 'accepting' the Google 'flaw' on it's phone. So Samsung is also culpable.
Talk about an Over the Top Melodramatic 1st post!
Stay off the internet - Get rid of your Smart TV - Live in a box... SMH
Sent from my SM-G955W ??
Niccolò Paganini said:
According to Samsung customer support and some members of this forum, this device does not have a built-in way of blocking Internet access for specific applications!
Many of those apps have permissions like "storage", "phone ID", "contacts", "calendar", "camera", "microphone", etc...
Therefore, when those applications are given Internet access they will be able to send all our data via the Internet...
That's why it would be of crucial importance and vital to have a built-in way of blocking Internet access to those apps.
For example, if an application has access to your data, to your storage or your contacts, it stands to reason that it should not have Internet access...
The only explanation for the lack of such an integrated system of blocking Internet access for specific applications can only be explained by the fact that Samsung and Google intend to have all our data and info sent over the Internet ... probably for specific domains ...
Google, Samsung or any other companies should not have, simultaneously, access to our storage data, contacts, calendar, camera, microphone..., and Internet access to send out all those data and info...
Besides, most apps are proprietary... so nobody knows what info or data the app is really sending out...
(Curiously and as a side note, my son has a Huawei P10 and that device allows the user to block Internet access to specific apps).
Therefore, given that this Samsung device does not have a way to limit specific applications from reaching the Internet, the phone is a spyware device!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't worry about it the NSA and Google already know everything about you.
without permissions 99% of your apps won't work. want to stop tracking ?dig deep into your account, real real deep to cut off a lot of privacy issues
then when you have time, google your name
pltctytc said:
....then when you have time, google your name
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not much came out for me, just a Google+, Twitter, Photobucket and my company activity...
But: I must agree with OP to some extent...at the end it is weighting between functionality vs privacy.
Gregzi said:
Not much came out for me, just a Google+, Twitter, Photobucket and my company activity...
But: I must agree with OP to some extent...at the end it is weighting between functionality vs privacy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreeing to ANY extent with the OP's RIDICULOUS and ABSURD post & a Thread Title that is Entirely Misleading and Uninformed!
While everyone is entitled to their opinion - This Thread & Particularly it's Title are perilously close to warrant being Reported to the Mods!
It's a simple process to Disable Background Data for each and every Application that you decide to disable in Settings - Apps - Permissions - Data - Background /Toggle Off.
I made reference to Smart TV's as they are constantly "listening" in order to provide functionality - Then there's Laptop cameras which could be equally used to "spy" on their users... Are we to disable the functionality offered by Ok Google - Which is also "listening" to provide the functionality that we have come to expect from our technology?
Two Tin Cans and String are the bastion of the Paranoid & Conspiracy Theorists.
Sent from my SM-G955W ??
**** this I'm going back to a Palm Pixi so the NSA can't spy on me!
What if.....
The NSA IS Google?!
Seriously? You're downloading things from F-Droid and Yalp and you're concerned with what data individual apps are sending? If you don't trust an app to have an internet connection, why on earth are you using it? If you don't trust the company behind an app to use your data appropriately, whey are you using that app? Do you shut off all data so your internet/mobile provider can't sniff out what you're doing? Tin foil is relatively cheap.
Niccolò Paganini said:
The only explanation for the lack of such an integrated system of blocking Internet access for specific applications can only be explained by the fact that Samsung and Google intend to have all our data and info sent over the Internet ... probably for specific domains ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Surely this is "the only reason", surely. I'll assume you have thought through the entire process of creating a mobile phone operating system as complex as Android, and also every detail involved in creating an application ecosystem that scales to millions of user created applications access by billions of people that worldwide probably generates over a trillion dollars in overall economic revenue (including employment by business built around it, advertising money spent, etc). Surely you saw a foolproof way too easily do all of this AND follow seemingly arbitrary privacy rules? You MUST have also COMPLETELY ruled out every other innocent explanation using this model, including showing conclusively that it wouldn't cause ANRs, app crashes, or anything else. Right?
You also have data showing more than just you would revoke this permission right?
Right?
Mr. Orange 645 said:
What if.....
The NSA IS Google?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean you only just realised this NOW???!
I have to say, I'm always amazed how little people care about the spying that's being done through their phones. Saying "live in a box" or "just don't use the app" is a stupid response. You can still want to be part of society (which nowadays REQUIRES using whatsapp/facebook/google) EVEN THOUGH you're uncomfortable with the privacy implications. Someone acknowledging and being aware of this, and trying to improve upon it (or even simpler, just demanding improvements by the companies you pay a thousand dollar for a new phone) is often ridiculed as if it wouldn't matter, or people accept it as an something that is required for the systems we use. Social networks could work totally fine without being centralized, google maps doesn't actually need to send your location to google to function, and no app that i know of needs to send your usage of the phone to their company to do whatever it promises to do. Yet many apps do. It's not so much about that it is possible, the problem is that it is allowed. It shouldn't be allowed, much of the data collection should simply be outlawed. But, since hardly anyone seems to care, I don't see that coming anytime soon. I've tried to find people interested in this, but not even on reddit /r/privacy/ this seems to be a major concern.
@the_toast
There's a difference between being responsible for the amount of privacy you have and the amount of personal information that has already been made available... long before people were even aware of the amount of personal information that was already gleaned from the Products and Services that you have been using for years. To some extent trying to reign in your personal information is like closing the barn door after the horse is long gone.
The guy who originally posted this Thread is focusing his "panic" on one device and THAT is naive and Grossly Misleading!
Whether it's FB (which I don't use) or signing up for a Loyalty card - Your personal information is everywhere! Using common sense going forward is the only rational approach, but standing on an imaginary mountain top and shouting to the world that one device is "spyware" is ridiculous and deserves to be called out ?
Sent from my SM-G955W ??
Ahh, the time of the Internet where everyone knows who you are, what you're doing, what you're buying, what sites you browse, your fetishes, etc. Most importantly, here in the U.S., your IP now can sell your internet history to anyone they please, even that time you looked up 2 girls and a cup. Sorry, Charlie, your life is no longer a private one and never will be again.
MiMtnBiker said:
Ahh, the time of the Internet where everyone knows who you are, what you're doing, what you're buying, what sites you browse, your fetishes, etc. Most importantly, here in the U.S., your IP now can sell your internet history to anyone they please, even that time you looked up 2 girls and a cup. Sorry, Charlie, your life is no longer a private one and never will be again.
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And if you Travel into the USA... Did you know THIS?
https://www.google.ca/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4494371#ampshare=http://www.cbc.ca/1.4494371
Sent from my SM-G955W ??
@shaggyskunk True, the OP is alarmist and uninformed. I was just put off by many of the answers, which basically said "why do you use Internet then". With respect to your post about searching phones - we can easily make this a scare thread (and people would be scared for good reasons). Let me continue:
- apps that want to use your microphone without apparent reason (of course also the ones WITH a good reason to use the mic) can track you through high-pitched sounds you cannot hear, which are emitted e.g. by some retailers to track you through their store.
- You talk about 1 in 13.000 people arriving in the US getting their phone/laptop looked at and potentially copied? How about knowing for 1Bn people (1 in 7 on earth) who they talk with, when they talk with them, and in which location they are whenever their phone has internet. That's Whatsapp.
@MiMtnBiker Gnn that's exactly my problem, people just accept it and believe it's never going to change. I'm not happy they know what kind of porn I'm looking at, and even less happy that they could sell the information (although I don't live in the US). If it is that way, it CAN be fixed, you CAN prohibit selling this information. Or to collect it at all. It's definitely better to know the big 5 have all my information but won't have all future information about me than to know they can continue like this forever
@the_toast
Many of the answers - including "live in a box" - "stay off the internet" were in direct response to the careless & irresponsible comments by the OP - like = like?
Not only your phone has the potential to gain access to your personal information - But your Laptop camera - Your Smart TV (that is "listening") But this technology is something that most people appreciate and expect their tech to provide them with the functionality that they want - Being aware of the capabilities of your Tech is prudent - being paranoid & frightened by it is just sad.
The issues of Privacy are extensive and if someone decides to pull on that thread - it's going to be never ending.
Common sense & being informed is the most appropriate way to go ??
Sent from my SM-G955W ??
the_toast said:
@shaggyskunk True, the OP is alarmist and uninformed. I was just put off by many of the answers, which basically said "why do you use Internet then". With respect to your post about searching phones - we can easily make this a scare thread (and people would be scared for good reasons). Let me continue:
- apps that want to use your microphone without apparent reason (of course also the ones WITH a good reason to use the mic) can track you through high-pitched sounds you cannot hear, which are emitted e.g. by some retailers to track you through their store.
- You talk about 1 in 13.000 people arriving in the US getting their phone/laptop looked at and potentially copied? How about knowing for 1Bn people (1 in 7 on earth) who they talk with, when they talk with them, and in which location they are whenever their phone has internet. That's Whatsapp.
@MiMtnBiker Gnn that's exactly my problem, people just accept it and believe it's never going to change. I'm not happy they know what kind of porn I'm looking at, and even less happy that they could sell the information (although I don't live in the US). If it is that way, it CAN be fixed, you CAN prohibit selling this information. Or to collect it at all. It's definitely better to know the big 5 have all my information but won't have all future information about me than to know they can continue like this forever
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I'm afraid the only way you are going to change it is to completely get off the grid. Many people are oblivious to the fact that they are willingly giving up their personal information when they have their noses buried in their smartphones pert near all day. What's worse is that the politicians only seem to cater to the wealthy, and since they are salivating at the idea of getting their grubby hands on your info, this will continue. Unless there is a huge uprising and people assemble in protest of this, it will not stop. Heck, I don't even think it will stop, then. Nope, money is the reason as to why this won't change and, unfortunately, you have no say in the matter. Unless, that is, you do get completely off the grid.