Related
I have a question that is purely out of curiosity. I'm not a developer, nor do I have any desire to become one... at this time.
In the process of answering questions for my father about his new Android phone, I came across the Android Developers website. Being the infinity curious person that I am, I started to browse through it and came across something that I was particularly curious about, the "Forward-Locked Application" market filter. It states that an application in the market can be set to not be visible to developer devices and unreleased devices. What I'm curious about is why would a developer not want their app to not be visible to said devices? Wouldn't it be to their advantage to allow their app to be visible, installed, and possibly tested if the owner of the developer phone or new unreleased phone so chose to do, after all, this is potentially new hardware that the app developer may not have support for in their app. Now not being a developer myself, I'm sure there are valid reasons for the filter and I am just curious as to what they may be.
Because you haven't tested your app on a new OS build, and want ensure compatibility before offering it for sale. Other reason is that the new OS build either obsoletes, duplicates, or just plain breaks your app. An example would be the updates to the calendar API's in Android 2.2. Every calendar widget in the market that tied into the built-in calendar app ceased to function because the way it interacted with outside apps had changed.
So the lock is not in reference to developer or unreleased hardware, it pertains to developer or unreleased software or OS?
They would check build/version number in the build.prop or whatever they use... It's just like how FroYo builds couldn't see protected apps while it was in pre-release.
garfnodie said:
So the lock is not in reference to developer or unreleased hardware, it pertains to developer or unreleased software or OS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes this is correct. The developer phones have different software that allow native root access and this would be defined in the build.prop . That would also allow people to rip applications and pirate them.
That switch is mainly a quality assurance/anti-piracy measure.
ATnTdude said:
Because you haven't tested your app on a new OS build, and want ensure compatibility before offering it for sale. Other reason is that the new OS build either obsoletes, duplicates, or just plain breaks your app. An example would be the updates to the calendar API's in Android 2.2. Every calendar widget in the market that tied into the built-in calendar app ceased to function because the way it interacted with outside apps had changed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, those apps that broke, broke because they were using private APIs. As explained, if you stick to public APIs your app should not break when updating OS iterations because ALL APIs are frozen as soon as a release is cut.
Here's another question then, are app's allowed to do automatic bug reporting back to a developer with out the user consent, or even with the users consent. It seems to me that say Google is testing Android 3.0, and one of their in house testers decides to install your app, but your app does not support 3.0 for whatever reason, if there is automatic bug reporting, you could be made aware of a potential incompatibility with a new API and have time to fix it long before the new OS is ever released. This all could never happen though if you have the market filter set.
garfnodie said:
Here's another question then, are app's allowed to do automatic bug reporting back to a developer with out the user consent, or even with the users consent. It seems to me that say Google is testing Android 3.0, and one of their in house testers decides to install your app, but your app does not support 3.0 for whatever reason, if there is automatic bug reporting, you could be made aware of a potential incompatibility with a new API and have time to fix it long before the new OS is ever released. This all could never happen though if you have the market filter set.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
bug reporting is going to be a new feature of 3.0. I dont think many if any apps have their own built in bug reporting. Also it really is on the developers side if their app doesnt work with new OS revisions. They should program their apps in such a way that they wont have to make drastic changes for updates. Google also give plenty of time for developers to make fixes before the first iterations of the new update goes out (almost 1 month in the case of froyo)
however some developers just dont care (e.g Co-Pilot)
Hi, thank you very much bestialbud , for your contribution now enjoy factory firmware and all functions work perfectly in A7. and also I have the Market.
thanks for the positive confirmation.
i'll try and throw out some more stuff for you the a7 users this weekend to accompany the gapps fix; some build prop improvements to get you access to more apps.
i'll try and throw out some more stuff for the rom chefs to kick up the activity in rom and mod development for the a7; map out all the files, permissions and uid/gid's, and then MAYBE if i have the time this weekend go experimental and package the factory rom into what i consider a normal update zip; zipped up rom instead of a system image w/ a script that sets all the roms permissions, symbolic links and busybox install. once its in a more manageable format like that you'll get more would be chef's and themer's contributing.
been thinkin' about it all week, i just don't have a tablet of my own (i'm the misses android fixit tech), so my works restricted to weekend mornings.
would be great, that within your improvements we have an ad-hoc connection to work properly.
the market does not have all the permissions, but wiht the permissions you indicate the fix the problem.
I'm anxious to see your improvements. Thanks again.
i'm sorry my english.
genialor; yeah, i never had any success w the adhoc wifi fixes myself. adhoc limitations are pretty common for mobile devices, not just android. i actually picked up a dsl connection due to this limitation, quite reluctantly i might add.
there is some 25 other similar tegra tablets. a portable solution could still present itself. i wouldnt count on any manufacturer adding adhoc connectity if they didnt provide it in the initial release.
i can say the usual passion finger, or release keys added to the stock one didnt make any difference. but im only using skyfire for an app name to search.
if folks could list other apps they dont see, it may help to make some gradual steps.
otherwise as far as savey folks looking at direct manipulation; the fingerprint that the market app reads after being copied from build prop is stored in /data/data/com.android.vending along w the characteristics your device supports. im a compare the tabs to my phone for fun to see if i can manipulate the data, because fingerprint replacement, w this gapps package in the rom isnt working. if that works, i can post instructions for the savvy, and MAYBE dig up some way to creatively automate adding those details.
Sent from my X10a using Tapatalk
Thanks buddy install UPDATE04-16 market + google apps and it works perfectly.
Bestialbud excellent job. Full Market yes, yes, yes ...
What is the latest market app, on Dexter mod I am running 2.3.6..
if folks could list other apps they dont see, it may help to make some gradual steps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, Tested your update and it seems to work fine except for some game apps. These aren't crucial but may indicate some permission issues: "crazy snowboards" seems to have a orientation problem.( only work in portrait mode.) "mau mau"intermittent FC.
*** note these apps worked in Dexter's latest mode ***
Otherwise Good Job!!
I find the installation notes for gapps mod in original thread extremely confusing.
I just installed official firmware (BTW the installation notes on official site were crystal clear). What should I do now?
A video of the entire process would be great.
P.S: NP, I just did not understand that to navigate between recovery menu items I must use "back" button.
Looks like gapps works now
sorry, i didnt provide step by step details for recovery use. i wont update that information either, as recovery is likely to change soon w lightly different instructions..
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk
Some market applications can't see sdcard...
Looks like it is mounted as /storage/sdcard-disk0 while these apps expect it to be at /sdcard. Also /sdcard is mounted somewhere on internal memory, same place as /storage actually . Is there any way to change it?
Some market applications can't see sdcard...
Looks like it is mounted as /storage/sdcard-disk0 while these apps expect it to be at /sdcard. Also /sdcard is mounted somewhere on internal memory, same place as /storage actually . Is there any way to change it?
Ummm, there's so much information on this...please do a search in these threads on SD card and you will understand why no one wants to answer that question............
okantomi said:
Some market applications can't see sdcard...
Ummm, there's so much information on this...please do a search in these threads on SD card and you will understand why no one wants to answer that question............
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did search and could not find any comprehensible information.
I didn't say it would be comprehensible.
The external sd card is mounted as /storage/sdcard-disk0. The A7 can read from it but not write apps to it, or at least the market doesn't and I don't think you can run apps from it, just install from it. There is an internal sd card 4GB total, but with 1+GB available for apps, and we can also add our own sd card (up to 32GB) stuffed with our music, videos, jpgs, documents, etc....that way we can access them through gallery and media players, etc, without having to download a bunch of junk onto our internal memory.
1GB is a huge amount of internal space for the kind of apps that I suspect most of us are using. Sorry if I'm not clear, but in truth this topic has been done to death.
Maybe our intrepid developers can find a way to rewrite the way this thing works now that they have the kernel source but maybe not.
there are ways and roms that may change the sdcard mount location. the apps may com thru the google market, but their ability to run is another function of the rom.
this is only a google apps addon.
you'll have to wait a lil bit longer til you see a rom from me. i'm interested in recovery and themeing for this device right now..
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk
muxecoid said:
Some market applications can't see sdcard...
Looks like it is mounted as /storage/sdcard-disk0 while these apps expect it to be at /sdcard. Also /sdcard is mounted somewhere on internal memory, same place as /storage actually . Is there any way to change it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is an on going problem with the sd card and the way its mounted by elocity's implementation of Android 2.2. To male a long story short, Elocity's android version is 2.2 compatible not a true implementation of Android 2.2. As far as I know no one has been able to work around this problem. Dexter tried starting with mod 1.3 but people started having problems with sd and usb detection. I'm waiting for Stream Tv to finally decide to fix this problem.
rphilippe777 said:
This is an on going problem with the sd card and the way its mounted by elocity's implementation of Android 2.2. To male a long story short, Elocity's android version is 2.2 compatible not a true implementation of Android 2.2. As far as I know no one has been able to work around this problem. Dexter tried starting with mod 1.3 but people started having problems with sd and usb detection. I'm waiting for Stream Tv to finally decide to fix this problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Drugs are bad mm'kay
Why on earth do people feel the need to disseminate misinformation on here on such a regular basis.
Go back and re-read Dexter's posts on the subject. There is a reason, a real reason, not made up like "its not true android 2.2". This is not a phone, it has larger internal storage and thus relies less on the external media. To have it the way you people want it (like a monstrous phone) the external storage would end up being the default, making it difficult to use the internal storage, and also REQUIRING that you have a decent size microSD just to make the tablet usable.
BTW, I am still laughing that I am apparently using an Android knock off lolololol
netstat_EVO said:
Drugs are bad mm'kay
Why on earth do people feel the need to disseminate misinformation on here on such a regular basis.
Go back and re-read Dexter's posts on the subject. There is a reason, a real reason, not made up like "its not true android 2.2".
This is not a phone, it has larger internal storage and thus relies less on the external media. To have it the way you people want it (like a monstrous phone) the external storage would end up being the default, making it difficult to use the internal storage, and also REQUIRING that you have a decent size microSD just to make the tablet usable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
BTW, I am still laughing that I am apparently using an Android knock off lolololol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't understand your response. I read Dexter's post on the subject. You need to re-read it. OS's in general have standards. If I run a windows, linux or mac system to name a few, you expect your hardware and software to run a certain way. For example, when you to read, write or print a file, any software you run for that OS should allow you to this on any computer that you run that particular OS on the same way. This isn't rocket science for a typical consumer. If you want to prove to me that I don't know what I'm talking about or worse yet that I
"disseminate misinformation on here on such a regular basis
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
. , please show specifically where what I said concerning Android 2.2 is wrong other then that you may have read dexter's post.
This is not a phone, it has larger internal storage and thus relies less on the external media. To have it the way you people want it (like a monstrous phone) the external storage would end up being the default, making it difficult to use the internal storage, and also REQUIRING that you have a decent size microSD just to make the tablet usable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
. That's irrelevant. The standard is not about what you want but the way it was decided that the OS should work plus I believe this is or will be addressed in Android 3.0. This constitutes and opinion rather than a fact. I didn't spend $299 on your opinion which BTW I don't agree with.
I understand XDA is developers site and you guys are use to thinking outside the box, which is fine by me, but we aren't all here for the same reasons and when I purchase something and it says I'm getting a certain thing, as a consumer, I expect the minimum of what if I'm purchasing. The box days "Android 2.2" not "Android 2.2 compatible" or "Android 2.2 features" or "Android 2.2 clone."
The question is:
- What is "Android 2.2"
- How does this relate to software and hardware issues with the A7?
- Is there a work around?
- Is there a firmware update?
and If your replying to a post, do can you contribute anything helpeful because telling me to search all of Dexter's post because you think you say a post concerning this already without reference that to that post is a waste of everyone time.
rphilippe777 said:
I don't understand your response. I read Dexter's post on the subject. You need to re-read it. OS's in general have standards. If I run a windows, linux or mac system to name a few, you expect your hardware and software to run a certain way. For example, when you to read, write or print a file, any software you run for that OS should allow you to this on any computer that you run that particular OS on the same way. This isn't rocket science for a typical consumer. If you want to prove to me that I don't know what I'm talking about or worse yet that I . , please show specifically where what I said concerning Android 2.2 is wrong other then that you may have read dexter's post. . That's irrelevant. The standard is not about what you want but the way it was decided that the OS should work plus I believe this is or will be addressed in Android 3.0. This constitutes and opinion rather than a fact. I didn't spend $299 on your opinion which BTW I don't agree with.
I understand XDA is developers site and you guys are use to thinking outside the box, which is fine by me, but we aren't all here for the same reasons and when I purchase something and it says I'm getting a certain thing, as a consumer, I expect the minimum of what if I'm purchasing. The box days "Android 2.2" not "Android 2.2 compatible" or "Android 2.2 features" or "Android 2.2 clone."
The question is:
- What is "Android 2.2"
- How does this relate to software and hardware issues with the A7?
- Is there a work around?
- Is there a firmware update?
and If your replying to a post, do can you contribute anything helpeful because telling me to search all of Dexter's post because you think you say a post concerning this already without reference that to that post is a waste of everyone time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
----------------------------------------------
Dexter_nlb said:
this is all a misunderstanding of how tablets are supposed to work, and caused by the fact that android 2.2 is made for a phone with external memory cards, and less to nothing of internal memory.
the current installation where apps are "moved" to internal storage is actually how vendors are trying to implement 2 types of storage.
comparing this to a mobile with just sdcard, and android 2.2 only supporting one storage type, the preferred storage becomes the "internal" and sdcard handling as you notice is now pointing to a location with the internal storage location.
the mountpoint at the internal storage location is planned based on the fact that users coming from an android based mobile knows alot about where to find data, which is in the storage location, so its put as mount at the storage so its easy to access, and not actually any bug at all.
so until better handling is presented (hopefully 3.0) people will continue to think that the handling is wrong or something is not wright here, but it is correct.
your internal storage of "just" 1.5GB is the preferred location, as tablets are not meant to have sdcards as preferred storage, if you chose not to put a sdcard into the tablet. so the choice was easy, use internal storage for android so ppl didnt need to buy additional cards.
but the lack of storage internally is a vendor decision, not a bug or not "the android way" a problem in any way..
imagine, those users without any sdcard, being unable to use the feature of android to a storage, and needed to use data storage for all files, that would look strange, if you didnt have the option available..
it could have been planned differently but vendors (all of the tegra2 vendors) has chosen this path, which could have been done differently but its all relate to apps and how they expect your device to work..
a long explanation, but remember 2.2 is not made for tablets, it made for small devices with external memory cards, which is long overdue and is followed up with the new android 3.0 which hopefully solves your problem.
conclusion,
Nvidia could have chosen a different way of using android, but they're still rather new to the platform and their design is not without problems yet (honeycomb will show that too), so if they used real planning and organized memory and sdcard handling like 2.2 was made for, you would have no problems at all. Remember Nvidia designed it this way, and they are the reason you have problems..Lack of knowledge of design and functionality, like BMW trying to make graphics card for a pc, coming from designing cars, their work would not be in a class like nvidia graphics, but probably ok..but far from good..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There was no button to make the important text blink and slap you in the face at the same time, so I hope bold and red will suffice.
Don't get pissy with me because you are putting out misinformation and got called on it. There are people who come on here to learn and someone might have actually believed your BS about "Android 2.2 compatible" or "Android 2.2 features" or "Android 2.2 clone."
I have contributed. You on the other hand have not. Spreading crap like this is merely tantamount to telling people the sky is purple.
Edit: by the way, the "on a regular basis" part was not directed at you or any other individual person. I was pointing out how often this happens, not keeping score of who has done it the most.
Another Edit: Of course it will be addressed in Android 3.0 ... 3.0 IS FOR TABLETS!
Yet Another Edit: No, you are right, you didn't spend $299 on my opinion. You spent $299 on a bottom of the line Android 2.2 tablet hoping for the best, just like the rest of us... And since you seem so hung up on what the box said, did your box say "Powered by Android 2.2" or did it say "Powered by some guy named Rob's opinion"? I am willing to bet it said the first. However if you decide that you are willing to pay for my "opinion", there happens to be a donate button right under my name on the left. Thanks for playing.
so, yeah. mount locations a rom issue.
'piss' somewhere else?
Sent from my X10i using Tapatalk
Okay--this might be a stupid question, but am I supposed to install this and Dexter's mod over the firmware?
If so, should I do them in a particular order?
Thanks for all that you guys do!
I just bought a Xoom tablet and so far love it. I also own an Inspire 4G which is rooted and has many apps installed. I noticed soon after first sync that the apps from my phone are now on my tablet. I assume they are they apps listed in the Market which is ok except that it seems that they are "small screen" versions if there is such a thing. Is there a way to block or stop syncing to certain devices while allowing others? Am I clear whith this question? Do large format apps exist? Will the market auto download the correct version of the app depending on the device?
Just started to get up to speed with Android on my inspire, now comes another learning curve!!!!
Thanks in advance.
For most apps, there is only one version which the author can update to include our tablet (16:10) format. It's not that "small" versions are being downloaded, it's just that the version doesn't yet take full advantage of the extra screen size on our tablets. It's worth searching though, because some apps may have a larger (or tablet-specific) version abailable. Or, you may find another developer has a similar app optimized for the tablet. But, for the most part, the apps come in one flavor and as the author has time (or need), they can/will update the app for Honeycomb support.
Hope this helps to answer at least part of your question...not sure about stopping the process once it has started. I know that the first time you setup your account on some android devices, they will start downloading any apps you have in your library. My Xoom didn't though... Probably because I canceled the initial setup purposely then did it manually later. Doing it manually will bypass the app download as I recall.
As always... Great support on this community driven site!!! Thanks.
I suppose I will next look to perhaps rooting, although, as yet I see little need. Haven't noticed the bloatware that so burdened my Inspire4G.
I think there is also a "compatibility" setting on the Xoom that you can uncheck...in Applications??? that will allow the apps to show full screen, though they may be jaggy. Search for it...it might work for some of your "Must Have" apps=win!
Also, the market should show you a tablet specific selection of apps.
Good luck.
Hi, a new guy here!
I recently became a happy owner of 32Gb wi-fi only N7. I’m familiar with software dev (windows developer for 20 years with some work on unix) and customization/modding/flashing process (mostly for satellite receivers). However this is my first tablet and my first Android device so I could use some help
I successfully unlocked, rooted and installed custom recovery on my N7. I would like to get to a bare bones state of the N7 and then slowly add new features/programs to it when it becomes necessary for me. So I would like to remove all non essential parts that were preinstalled on my N7.
I was under impression that I could uninstall programs using N7 UI after device gets rooted. However it seems that for majority of the apps I still only have an option to disable.
I shelled into N7 and looked around. It seems that all (majority?) of the apps are in /system/apps folder. Can I simply remove the apps and their files from that folder? Does this folder only contain user apps or does it also have system apps that are essential for N7 to function? Is there a chance to brick it by removing something (everything?) from that folder?
I searched on a forum for a list of apps that are safe to remove. I thought it would exist since it seems to be something many of us would be interested in doing. I didn’t find the list. If there is such a thing and someone could direct me there, it would be great!
Given that I can remove apps by deleting them from that folder safely, I still have a question what each app does and how important it is. Is safe to assume that any app that has a wheel with a drive belt on it as an icon in apps screen on N7 is system app and has to stay?
I have two keyboard app installed – one is Android keyboard and one is ASUS keyboard. Judging by the name 2 of these are essential since Android is the OS and ASUS is the manufacturer. But do I really need two of them?
If there is a resource/thread that discussed something similar, please let know. I look forward to learn from anyone on this forum!
_Diver said:
Hi, a new guy here!
I recently became a happy owner of 32Gb wi-fi only N7. I’m familiar with software dev (windows developer for 20 years with some work on unix) and customization/modding/flashing process (mostly for satellite receivers). However this is my first tablet and my first Android device so I could use some help
I successfully unlocked, rooted and installed custom recovery on my N7. I would like to get to a bare bones state of the N7 and then slowly add new features/programs to it when it becomes necessary for me. So I would like to remove all non essential parts that were preinstalled on my N7.
I was under impression that I could uninstall programs using N7 UI after device gets rooted. However it seems that for majority of the apps I still only have an option to disable.
I shelled into N7 and looked around. It seems that all (majority?) of the apps are in /system/apps folder. Can I simply remove the apps and their files from that folder? Does this folder only contain user apps or does it also have system apps that are essential for N7 to function? Is there a chance to brick it by removing something (everything?) from that folder?
I searched on a forum for a list of apps that are safe to remove. I thought it would exist since it seems to be something many of us would be interested in doing. I didn’t find the list. If there is such a thing and someone could direct me there, it would be great!
Given that I can remove apps by deleting them from that folder safely, I still have a question what each app does and how important it is. Is safe to assume that any app that has a wheel with a drive belt on it as an icon in apps screen on N7 is system app and has to stay?
I have two keyboard app installed – one is Android keyboard and one is ASUS keyboard. Judging by the name 2 of these are essential since Android is the OS and ASUS is the manufacturer. But do I really need two of them?
If there is a resource/thread that discussed something similar, please let know. I look forward to learn from anyone on this forum!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have the energy right now to address every app one at a time, but I'll nudge you in the right direction. That should help you start tinkering.
The Nexus 7 is very popular in this community because it's intentionally more open, and less bloated, than much of the competition.
That being said, sure there are apps you could uninstall if you decide to. Some of the custom ROM's will have probably already have done this for you, but may create little unexpected quirks here and there.
The first thing you'll want to do is backing everything up thoroughly. I would use Titanium Pro (you'll see it referred to as Tibu a lot), to backup all apps and settings. Then I would use the Google Nexus 7 toolkit (found in the forums here) to do a backup, as well as make a nandroid backup.
Ok, so you're ready to tinker. Well, if you bought Titanium Pro from the app store, you've already got all you really need. First, use titanium to freeze an app you don't feel you need, and don't think is required. Re-boot, go about your daily routine, and see if all is ok. Continue on in this manner. Once you've frozen everything you're interested in, and made sure all is well, you can probably go ahead and uninstall them through Tibu. Freezing them should generally make them not start up anyways, so unless the tiny amount of space they take up is a concern, that's really all you generally need to do *.
* Ok, sometimes you have to fully uninstall things you don't want, but this should get you plenty to tinker with for now.
bladebarrier,
Thanks for your response. I understand the approach you suggested – disabling apps one at a time and then when they all disabled and device is working to my liking for a while I could uninstall them.
However, I’m somewhat frustrated with a sheer number of apps that I have out of the box and I can’t find a good description of what they do. For example:
Mobile Network Configuration
Google Partner Setup
Google Services Framework
Searching online doesn’t yield definitive answers if it’s something I need or will N7 work without them. I have google play store and google play services installed – does store app require services? Reading a bit about it doesn’t make it seem so, but I’m not 100% sure. So I was wondering if there is a list of apps that are required for N7 well being and that cannot be removed no matter what.
For example, Black Viper has an excellent example of what I’m looking for but for windows nt services: (can't post a link)
This page explain what each service is, what it does and if it’s safe to disable it depending on configuration you’re seeking – minimal set, typical, out of box of experimental. I would love to find something like that for N7 system apps
I installed CWM recovery when I rooted and as far as I can understand I does NAND backups. I plan on moving the backup file from the device to my desktop and keeping it there for safety reason.
The Tibu process that you described, as far as I understand (and I might be wrong here) is basically equivalent of disabling the apps using native N7 setting app, rebooting, using it for a while and then removing .apk and .odex (or simply app_name.*) files from system/apps folder. Tibu just makes it easier. Did I get that right?
And it’s still removing one app/widget at the time. I’d like to clean it out completely first and start from that point. So Tibu will probably not help me there. So my main Q is still out there – can I brick it by removing everything from system/app? Are there only user apps there or essential system apps as well? With CWM back up file on hand will I be able to recover if my experiment goes bad?
> * Ok, sometimes you have to fully uninstall things you don't want, but this should get you plenty to tinker with for now.
One of the reasons I want to have them removed is to clean up the list of apps I have on N7. Right now I have 5 pages of apps and I have little idea what they do and if I need them – I had Korean keyboard installed for example.
As I mentioned I’m a newb in this area, so maybe my approach is a bit dumb, so please be patient with me
_Diver said:
bladebarrier,
Thanks for your response. I understand the approach you suggested – disabling apps one at a time and then when they all disabled and device is working to my liking for a while I could uninstall them.
However, I’m somewhat frustrated with a sheer number of apps that I have out of the box and I can’t find a good description of what they do. For example:
Mobile Network Configuration
Google Partner Setup
Google Services Framework
Searching online doesn’t yield definitive answers if it’s something I need or will N7 work without them. I have google play store and google play services installed – does store app require services? Reading a bit about it doesn’t make it seem so, but I’m not 100% sure. So I was wondering if there is a list of apps that are required for N7 well being and that cannot be removed no matter what.
For example, Black Viper has an excellent example of what I’m looking for but for windows nt services: (can't post a link)
This page explain what each service is, what it does and if it’s safe to disable it depending on configuration you’re seeking – minimal set, typical, out of box of experimental. I would love to find something like that for N7 system apps
I installed CWM recovery when I rooted and as far as I can understand I does NAND backups. I plan on moving the backup file from the device to my desktop and keeping it there for safety reason.
The Tibu process that you described, as far as I understand (and I might be wrong here) is basically equivalent of disabling the apps using native N7 setting app, rebooting, using it for a while and then removing .apk and .odex (or simply app_name.*) files from system/apps folder. Tibu just makes it easier. Did I get that right?
And it’s still removing one app/widget at the time. I’d like to clean it out completely first and start from that point. So Tibu will probably not help me there. So my main Q is still out there – can I brick it by removing everything from system/app? Are there only user apps there or essential system apps as well? With CWM back up file on hand will I be able to recover if my experiment goes bad?
> * Ok, sometimes you have to fully uninstall things you don't want, but this should get you plenty to tinker with for now.
One of the reasons I want to have them removed is to clean up the list of apps I have on N7. Right now I have 5 pages of apps and I have little idea what they do and if I need them – I had Korean keyboard installed for example.
As I mentioned I’m a newb in this area, so maybe my approach is a bit dumb, so please be patient with me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Removing Google framework services is a big no-no. To be honest, the easiest way to accomplish what you want is installing a custom ROM like CyanogenMod, especially since you've done all the prep work for such a thing.
Once you install any official CM build it is as close to app-less as you can get on a modular OS like this.
littleemp said:
Removing Google framework services is a big no-no. To be honest, the easiest way to accomplish what you want is installing a custom ROM like CyanogenMod, especially since you've done all the prep work for such a thing.
Once you install any official CM build it is as close to app-less as you can get on a modular OS like this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's what i suspected! i thought that google framework would be something essential, but there is not much easily available information there to arrive at that conclusion
since i'm new to this, i thought i should stay away from any rom flashing until i get a bit more familiar with a device, terminology and stuff like that. i'm looking at the "[ROM] CyanogenMod 10.1 [OFFICIAL]" thread and i'm not sure about half of the terms - GAPPS, PSA, Nightlies i do know what ROM is, I do know what kernel is, virtual machine, etc. But it's applied to the platform that I have little experience with, so it makes me a little bit uneasy
_Diver said:
bladebarrier,
Thanks for your response. I understand the approach you suggested – disabling apps one at a time and then when they all disabled and device is working to my liking for a while I could uninstall them.
However, I’m somewhat frustrated with a sheer number of apps that I have out of the box and I can’t find a good description of what they do. For example:
Mobile Network Configuration
Google Partner Setup
Google Services Framework
Searching online doesn’t yield definitive answers if it’s something I need or will N7 work without them. I have google play store and google play services installed – does store app require services? Reading a bit about it doesn’t make it seem so, but I’m not 100% sure. So I was wondering if there is a list of apps that are required for N7 well being and that cannot be removed no matter what.
For example, Black Viper has an excellent example of what I’m looking for but for windows nt services: (can't post a link)
This page explain what each service is, what it does and if it’s safe to disable it depending on configuration you’re seeking – minimal set, typical, out of box of experimental. I would love to find something like that for N7 system apps
I installed CWM recovery when I rooted and as far as I can understand I does NAND backups. I plan on moving the backup file from the device to my desktop and keeping it there for safety reason.
The Tibu process that you described, as far as I understand (and I might be wrong here) is basically equivalent of disabling the apps using native N7 setting app, rebooting, using it for a while and then removing .apk and .odex (or simply app_name.*) files from system/apps folder. Tibu just makes it easier. Did I get that right?
And it’s still removing one app/widget at the time. I’d like to clean it out completely first and start from that point. So Tibu will probably not help me there. So my main Q is still out there – can I brick it by removing everything from system/app? Are there only user apps there or essential system apps as well? With CWM back up file on hand will I be able to recover if my experiment goes bad?
> * Ok, sometimes you have to fully uninstall things you don't want, but this should get you plenty to tinker with for now.
One of the reasons I want to have them removed is to clean up the list of apps I have on N7. Right now I have 5 pages of apps and I have little idea what they do and if I need them – I had Korean keyboard installed for example.
As I mentioned I’m a newb in this area, so maybe my approach is a bit dumb, so please be patient with me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tibu requires root access, in order to perform what we're discussing. I'm relatively new to JB, but I can't imagine any stock settings replicating its capabilities.
As far as a whole bunch of apps being in your list, that's sort of the way Android works. Think of it like "superfetch", or whatever that term was in Windows Vista. Basically, two things happen when you boot. Android looks at a list of apps that are designed to start on boot, and also apps that it expects you may want to run in the future. Both of these are designed to make the device run smoother overall, and it will kill apps if extra ram is required and they are not in use. Certain Android apps require themselves to run at all times. Some of these are apps like Tasker (if you're using tasker profiles), some of these are system apps that make the device function, some of these are apps that maintain widgets or background monitoring (weather apps, gmail, calendar).
Now, there are two ways to go about sorting what is bloat, and what is there because Android decided to load it. You can install an app called Autostarts, that will give an insight into apps that start up when certain criteria are met. You can also use it to stop those apps from queuing up at those trigger points. This is another root required app, and while I purchased it long ago, may have a free version as well. It's time consuming to use, and not perfect, which is why Tibu is better for flat out locking down unwanted apps.
Back to my initial thoughts though, you will see apps in your system list that you haven't touched since boot, because Android tries to anticipate your needs. People used to use "task killers" to close the apps, and came to realize that unless one is causing a real problem, it's just going to go back into the cached app list again anyways, thus reducing battery life when it has to load it over and over again. "Task killer" is a dirty word around XDA, unless you're using it to close an app that doesn't just go into the background like a good little app should.
Basically, you're going to start playing whack-a-mole if you want your list to remain as small as possible, at all times, and yet still actually use the device for anything interesting. You can reduce it, via various methods, and if this were a device from say "insert-name" brand, and was loaded with bloat apps, by all means you should clean those out. However, I think you'll find that while google does install things that aren't needed, or even used by everyone, it's mostly not a big issue.
Check out Better Battery Stats, in the XDA forums. It's an app that shows a pretty good picture of what is actually going on when you're not looking, and can provide data on how to improve your performance. It's probably a better way to start delving into what processes are actually being used, and which ones are just basically harmless. You'll also learn a good bit about how Android works from the Dev's explanations of many of the processes.
---------- Post added at 08:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:32 PM ----------
_Diver said:
that's what i suspected! i thought that google framework would be something essential, but there is not much easily available information there to arrive at that conclusion
since i'm new to this, i thought i should stay away from any rom flashing until i get a bit more familiar with a device, terminology and stuff like that. i'm looking at the "[ROM] CyanogenMod 10.1 [OFFICIAL]" thread and i'm not sure about half of the terms - GAPPS, PSA, Nightlies i do know what ROM is, I do know what kernel is, virtual machine, etc. But it's applied to the platform that I have little experience with, so it makes me a little bit uneasy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Make sure whichever ROM you use, if you decide to, supports your HSPA+ model. There is a separate development section in the Nexus 7 forums, for those of us that have the HSPA+ version. We are the minority, as the Nexus 7 was initially released as a wifi only tablet.
bladebarrier said:
Tibu requires root access, in order to perform what we're discussing. I'm relatively new to JB, but I can't imagine any stock settings replicating its capabilities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i do have SU privileges, so what i was talking about was disabling an app thru N7 setting screen and then when i deem the app ok to remove, going to adb shell and removing the actual file.
i just did this:
mount -o remount rw /system
rm iWnnIME_Kbd_White.apk
rm iWnnIME.apk
and it removed the japanese keyboard. however when i go back to app screen under settings, i still see it but now it has a grey icon with a SD symbols in the corner. so it appears it recognizes that the app is gone, but it's still referenced in the list. i pushed the files back using NRT and it all back to the way it was. so looks like my idea of cleaning the list by removing the apk might not fly.
and now I wonder how Tibu uninstalls the apps.
bladebarrier said:
People used to use "task killers" to close the apps, and came to realize that unless one is causing a real problem, it's just going to go back into the cached app list again anyways, thus reducing battery life when it has to load it over and over again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand the notion of apps being in the cache and being removed when more RAM is needed, however the purist in me just doesn't want the junk apps to be there in first place However there is a lot of validity to these of your words:
bladebarrier said:
Basically, you're going to start playing whack-a-mole if you want your list to remain as small as possible, at all times, and yet still actually use the device for anything interesting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My wife got Kindle Fire HD recently and she's been using it happily. While I was thinking why would anyone want a closed up system (well, more closed up system then Nexus), she's been using it and I've been frustrated with my N7 so i might just let it go and enjoy the japanese and korean keyboards anyway
bladebarrier said:
Make sure whichever ROM you use, if you decide to, supports your HSPA+ model.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i'm wifi only
ngshniq every
i think i found what i was after: http wiki.cyanogenmod.org/wiki/barebones (url modified since i still can't post urls). this wiki page has the list of app with a short description and if it's safe to remove. it also has additional information that explains why i still saw the reference to the app in the list when apk file was deleted:
looks like i need to pay attention to 2 additional files:
/data/system/packages.xml
/data/system/packages.list
i bet I would find a reference to the apps in these and i would need to remove it in order to have the app disappear from the app list. i'll play around a bit more and report back
One thing, could you explain your reasoning behind wanting to delete everything but the essentials? Do you have a particular goal in mind or is it because of your windows background? Because if so, you should know that android operates very differently when compared to windows, and such, the requirements to keep your device working in tip top shape vary greatly.
In my opinion, with your current limited knowledge of each process/app inner workings, what you're trying to do surefire way to break something beyond repair and needing to use a factory image to get back to zero. A custom ROM will be much safer and yield the exact same results that you're looking for. (Eventually, once you understand what each thing does, then this manual approach could satisfy your needs)
Note: GApps are the basic Google apps to flash on top of the barebones system. Gmail, Play store, and the framework.
Nightlies are experimental builds compiled nightly by a bot with the latest CyanogenMod code available.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
My goal was to simplify my approach to N7 by removing anything that I don’t need now and slowly adding all necessary components as I get familiar with it. But it seems at this point that this approach is a bit more complicated as thought it would be.
So I think I would leave it alone for now and revisit this later
_Diver said:
My goal was to simplify my approach to N7 by removing anything that I don’t need now and slowly adding all necessary components as I get familiar with it. But it seems at this point that this approach is a bit more complicated as thought it would be.
So I think I would leave it alone for now and revisit this later
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what you've done manually, you're clearly far ahead of a new user when it comes to understanding linux/unix.
If you want to lock down parts of what google implements, purely to keep it minimalistic, I would agree with the above poster. Go for one of the popular ROM options that are available, like CM, and work your way backwards. The Nexus 7 only has as much bloat as you allow it to have via the settings. This is another reason why Better Battery Stats is an excellent way to make sure your device isn't draining battery, yet isn't locked down. The other day I noticed an app that kept fetching my position, even though the case was closed (magnetic sleep mode). It turned out I forgot to disable the tracking in google maps (why it was defaulted to ON, I have no idea). BBS showed me what was running during the sleep phase, and I fixed it when I woke up the next morning after wondering why my battery dropped.
The Kindle Fire is a great option, because it doesn't require any of this fussing about. My woman loves hers. LOVES IT. Personally, I like to tinker a bit, and I'm too invested in Android apps to not have access to the play store. The Nexus 7, is for people like what you find here. We like to tinker, and make everything custom. At the same time, you could spend all day trying to figure out why EntriesRefresh_wakelock is your highest partial wakelock count, at 60seconds per 7 hours, or you can find that you just went 7 hours and only used 6% of the battery, even though you've been connected to wifi, texting, emailing, and checking the weather and news, the whole time. Not bad, honestly.
The biggest investment you can do for your Nexus, is probably getting a case that magnetically puts it to rest when you close it. After that, learn about the settings that drain battery in the background. Then, get Tasker and play around that (it's like programming, without the need to learn the code). After that, go to a custom ROM, or dig out Tibu, and basically start customizing which apps you will use. If that doesn't pass the time long enough, you can literally make your own ROM and put together exactly what you want. Whether the performance will be that much better or not, and whether you'll spend most of your day trying to look for coding errors, is up to you. I don't have the patience to code, but you're a coder, so what is broccoli to me, may be bacon to you.
Hello Good People of XDA
I have been a i9506 owner for quite long, had a 9100 before,
I am used to root and mess with apps to customize things to my wim,
at the best of my knowledge (I lack android programming skills, but I can do things with terminal and filesystems).
All that before to say I am not totally a noob, but my lack of technical knowledge might bite me there.
System wise, I am under 4.2.2, rooted, unknow sources are not allowed, system check for apps is allowed,
I have an antivirus (more than one, but only one works each day, just to be sure I don't miss things)...
My problem is that I recently found out that some apps, actually system apps, blocked
with Titanium backup, or with gemini app manager, or app quarantine,
were actually running anyway.
They are marked as blocked in my app manager, but can still be force closed,
and they appear in battery displays (most of these under the android system block, in the list of services/apps used),
and in process running when using Ccleaner apps.
Also, my battery display show GPS is activated, while when I go into options, all boxes are off or unticked.
I thus wonder what's happening?
How is it possible to have these schrödinger apps tamed and blocked like I want them.
I want these to shut down and only work when I DO ALLOW these, for them not to suck my battery or do unauthorized chores like tracking me when I don't want.
How is it possible that they even behave like that? In i9100, I never observed that in Android 4.0.
I wonder if Google didn't change the workings for making us unable to disactivate what we don't want to work, which was pissing them off.
They already change the permissions displays in the market so permissions as intrusive as "contacts/sms message/USB stockage" are considered "not relevant/important",
while they are depending on the announced display of the app.
But I don't want to go on the "conspiracy route" (I am not like that, I am a pragmatist and I just observe facts, like these apps, with sensitive access, not being able to be deactivated), so let's focus on the technical part:
such apps were Maps, Samsung sync adapters, NFC service , Google Agenda/Contact synchronisation, sysscope, context provider, etc.
That's a lots of things that are supposed to communicate to cloud or other devices, with feels lot like a gaping flaw in the armor...
I want a phone and a tool, not something that track me or put me at risk of being stolen by somebody with technical knowledge.
Am I alone?
Thanks for any insights.
Blocked apps still working
I don't know if my title was too unclear, so I would like to change the title but am unable to do so?
Is it please possible for a moderator to do it (with the title of this post)?
Thanks by advance.
I feel like it is a true problem not being able to block some apps,
or even more, to believe they are blocked while they perfectly perform in the background,
and display activity only in secondary reports, not under their respective "buttons"/information tabs.
I wonder abourt the technical reason to such behavior.
Then delete those apps or block some of the permissions with an app (eg Privacyguard).
It's my opinion that an antivirus app (at the moment) is a waste of resources. Just think before you install something. Also if you are worried about security, you should always run the latest version of Android. 4.2.2 is an old version.
Lennyz1988 said:
Then delete those apps or block some of the permissions with an app (eg Privacyguard).
It's my opinion that an antivirus app (at the moment) is a waste of resources. Just think before you install something. Also if you are worried about security, you should always run the latest version of Android. 4.2.2 is an old version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your answer.
Well I don't want to delete system app when they might be useful at time.
I just want them to behave correctly, that is, not work when they are blocked.
That is not a solution to say "uninstall this", while the true problem is Android general behavior here.
I didn't installed system apps, they came with the thing, and all of them are not bloatware.
"NFC service" is something I want to keep for when I am ready to use it,
but I don't want to let it free and unleashed because of the opening it leaves on my phone.
Same goes for bluetooth, synced backups and so on.
I don't want backups on the cloud, so I deactivated the options, and blocked the apps.
Why are they running? It is not normal!
And my old version is maybe not secure, but actually trying 4.3 hasn't changed anything,
and I only suspect this to be some "new feature".
The antivirus is a waste for scans, I agree, still it has useful firewall features that justifies in itself its uses.