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Anyone who understands this "spectrum" 3g AT&T Tmob issue more than I.... I have a ?

Anyone who understands this "spectrum" 3g AT&T Tmob issue more than I.... I have a ?
Okay so here it goes....
WTF!!!!!!!!!!!???
So I've been reading all day to understand this and I do get how we ended up screwed on 3g from the rest of the world
Tmob is on "aws" which is sort of a halfway between 2100/1900 of Europe at 2100/1700
AT&T is on 1900/850 or 850... I couldn't find a straight answer on that.
Now everyone says this is "hardware" in the phone that dictates this issue. I've been researching (this is where I could use your help) and I'm missing something. Nexus one is using Qualcomm Snapdragon™ 3G QSD8250.... This AMAZING chip is not only the processor but the 3g chipset as well... (correct?) Yet this same chip is in the LG expo and the LG expo has 850/1900/2100 for it's 3g.
It would seem to me... (a simple man) that Qualcomm would NOT produce separate chips but would use some firmware/software to let the chip determine which frequencies to use. Otherwise they would have to stamp out more than one chip instead of just having one factory.
The other major issue I see is antenna length is a physical characteristic based on the radio wave you are trying to receive/send. So that may have to change too but that's more about being optimum than impossible.
Not that anyone has the cash for this but what would stop someone with REALLY amazing soldering skills from switching the two supposedly identical chipsets? Would that extremely silly idea work?
Just a thought that I thought a few people on this forum may understand more than I do.

First, the radio ROM should be the one to dictate what frequencies are supported if the radio chip can support multiple frequencies, which it does. There is a soft radio chip from Samsung (I think it's Samsung) that can be reprogrammed to change which carrier it's supporting, but I haven't read of it being used yet. I believe that's the future, but currently you get a chip that almost universally supports European 3G and quad-band GSM w/EDGE out of the box, and then *one* set of US/Canadian frequencies. That's it.
WIND (new Canadian carrier) is using the same AWS spectrum as T-Mobile US is, so that should give more "pull" for more AWS support in future handsets, but with T-Mobile moving toward a "dumb pipe" arrangement (no annoying a la carte options, no music services, no stupid "extras" to pay for, just voice/data/text plans) the hope is more devices will be available in the open market that will just work on T-Mobile and support whatever you're paying for. Since your ISP is just "there" and "supports" (ish) whatever you're using, the hope is T-Mobile US will set the trend for that behavior here, and WIND might be going the same way in Canada, and FINALLY bring this mentality to North America.
If that works out, expect to see more soft radio chips and ROMs to come out with these handsets so they can be "flipped" from network to network and still support all the data and voice options. If it doesn't (I think it will to some degree), then expect the long and annoying tradition of vertically integrated handset and carrier support where the handset has to be "made" to support whatever options the carrier chooses (for compatibility and being as cheap as possible to make) and not have full, cross network support for devices.

Softchips aren't common and won't be. You could probably swap the chips directly, but it's going to cause issues.
T-Mobile uses AWS, which is 1700/2100 for down/up stream. It's considered GSM band 4, which is different from Europe, who uses a 900 band and a 2100 band, both of those are full up/downloads on close bands, so some places use 900, some use 2100, some offer both. It's a bit different. The Nexus One supposed 900/AWS/2100, meaning it's 100% Europe and T-Mobile compatible. We're seeing more and more of these chips since it's significantly simpler than making Euro + AT&T chips.
Motorola is developing a chip with AWS + 850/1900, meaning sometime next year, we should be seeing truly "USA" model cell phones, which will support any US GSM carrier. Euro+USA full could come eventually, but the addition of AWS means it'd take a 5-band chip instead of Quad band like EDGE.

T-Mobile 3G Upgrade
FCC cleared radio frequencies about 3 years ago, T-Mobile bid on the majority of them and used it to upgrade its network.
Much lulz were had.
Here is a List of UMTS Networks. Pretty much all of Europe uses 2100.
I'll do more research as to WHY, but most carriers opt for certain frequencies because of hardware compatibility and cost effectiveness for when they were upgrading.
That link makes it appear that AT&T is worthless outside of NA, but that's untrue (AT&T has, for the most part coverage worldwide, or so I think...) so I'll do some more research on my lunch break.

Renarudo said:
T-Mobile 3G Upgrade
FCC cleared radio frequencies about 3 years ago, T-Mobile bid on the majority of them and used it to upgrade its network.
Much lulz were had.
Here is a List of UMTS Networks. Pretty much all of Europe uses 2100.
I'll do more research as to WHY, but most carriers opt for certain frequencies because of hardware compatibility and cost effectiveness for when they were upgrading.
That link makes it appear that AT&T is worthless outside of NA, but that's untrue (AT&T has, for the most part coverage worldwide, or so I think...) so I'll do some more research on my lunch break.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ATT has some coverage (edge once again) everywhere, some places in canada and australia have 1900, but ATT for the most part is using a freq that's not very universal

The issue is the amplifier module.
I have the Rogers G1 running on AT&T 3G. The radio firmware/software is identicle to the T-Mobile/ADP1 phone.
They did a tear down of the G1's and they both use physically different amplifier part numbers. It's not a part from Qualcomm and has nothing to do with their chipsets. Their chipsets do indeed support AT&T's 3G frequencies, if paired with a compatible amplifier.
Now if someone tears down the Nexus One, and gets the part number for the amplifier, and that amplifier can do AT&T frequencies, it may just be an issue of hacking the radio somehow to enable it.
It's quite possible the amplifier on the Nexus One can handle AT&T 3G, but they didn't bother to "certify" it with the FCC because T-Mobile is te launch parter and AT&T is sucking Apples teet.
One can only wait and see. I'm betting it simple doesn't have the correct amplifier for AT&T.
There are amplifiers that work on all frequencies. Why they don't spend the extra dollar or whatever is beyond me. They are literally THAT cheap.
-James

jmacdonald801 said:
The issue is the amplifier module.
I have the Rogers G1 running on AT&T 3G. The radio firmware/software is identicle to the T-Mobile/ADP1 phone.
They did a tear down of the G1's and they both use physically different amplifier part numbers. It's not a part from Qualcomm and has nothing to do with their chipsets. Their chipsets do indeed support AT&T's 3G frequencies, if paired with a compatible amplifier.
Now if someone tears down the Nexus One, and gets the part number for the amplifier, and that amplifier can do AT&T frequencies, it may just be an issue of hacking the radio somehow to enable it.
It's quite possible the amplifier on the Nexus One can handle AT&T 3G, but they didn't bother to "certify" it with the FCC because T-Mobile is te launch parter and AT&T is sucking Apples teet.
One can only wait and see. I'm betting it simple doesn't have the correct amplifier for AT&T.
There are amplifiers that work on all frequencies. Why they don't spend the extra dollar or whatever is beyond me. They are literally THAT cheap.
-James
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or sell two (or more) versions of the phone?
850/1900/2100
900/1900/2100
1700/2100
I would guess ... idiocy.
Even more idiotic ... phone manufacturers building phones with NAM 3G frequencies ... but not selling them.

It seems the Nexus One at least has the hardware to support AT&T 3G, see my post here.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=612950
-James

Question about 3G in HD2

Maybe someone who has a better grasp of hardware can answer this question. Why would HTC make different phones for different 3G networks (not counting CDMA here, just GSM)? For instance, if you want to use a HD2 on AT&T's network, you have to get an 9193 import from Australia which uses the same 3G freq (2100), while T-mobile uses a 3G freq. of 850.
Now, the real question. Is there a real difference in the antenna hardware between the TMUSHD2 and the 9193 import? Or is it a matter of firmware which programs the antenna to listen at a certain freq?
From a manufacturing standpoint, it seems it would be simpler to make a standardized receiver section, and then just software to program it for certain frequencies depending on the cell vendor's requirements.
Any ideas?

You really need to do some homework. Your highspeed data frequencies are all mixxed up.
Telstra T9193 850+2100UMTS
European T8585 900+2100UMTS
TMOUS 1700+2100UMTS
ATT uses 850+1900UMTS so the telstra is the only one to get 3G or H in the states. The 850UMTS band alone will suffice for most.
And HTC produces so many versions because carriers around the world use different frequencies. Also it is hardware and not firmware that denotes these frequencies.

As Agoattamer stated, different carriers/regions use different frequencies for their signal (whether it's Edge/HSDPA or w/e).
But furthermore, I don't believe HTC makes any radio chips, they purchase them and then put them in their phones (kinda like snapdragon cpu is made by Qualcomm and not HTC). More so, there is no chip in existence that supports all frequencies (and it kinda makes sense; there's no need to built a chip which will cost more, and physically take up more space when only a few of it's frequencies will be used in it's lifetime depending on where it is located. Also, it allows for phones to be locked to carriers, which carriers like).
So it's not firmware locked, it's hardware based and can't be changed.

Evo 4G has GSM in the chipset

I stumbled on this while searching pdadb.net, the chipset used in the HTC Evo 4G is apparently the "Snapdragon QSD8650", which supports ARMv7 instruction set, and is based on the ARM Cortex-A8 core (core is really scorpion). This chipset claims to have support for GSM, GPRS, and EDGE, as well as various CDMAs.
Just curious why would they use a chipset with GSM? It looks like it has the same support for GSM as the N1 chipset (Snapdragon QSD8250), odd. Looks like the chipset would support both CDMA, and GSM, perhaps later they are planning on releasing a GSM version of the phone, because clearly the HTC Evo 4G from sprint will not support GSM cell networks.
Here is Snapdragon QSD8650 specs page
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=cpu&id=a8650&c=qualcomm_snapdragon_qsd8650

Just because a chipset is capable of supporting a GSM radio, does not mean the GSM radio is installed.

boxmander said:
I stumbled on this while searching pdadb.net, the chipset used in the HTC Evo 4G is apparently the "Snapdragon QSD8650", which supports ARMv7 instruction set, and is based on the ARM Cortex-A8 core (core is really scorpion). This chipset claims to have support for GSM, GPRS, and EDGE, as well as various CDMAs.
Just curious why would they use a chipset with GSM? It looks like it has the same support for GSM as the N1 chipset (Snapdragon QSD8250), odd. Looks like the chipset would support both CDMA, and GSM, perhaps later they are planning on releasing a GSM version of the phone, because clearly the HTC Evo 4G from sprint will not support GSM cell networks.
Here is Snapdragon QSD8650 specs page
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=cpu&id=a8650&c=qualcomm_snapdragon_qsd8650
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This was the revised chipset to incorporate CDMA. The original chipset, 8250 (as found in the N1 original release), did not support CDMA.
The only difference in the two is one supports CDMA, whereas the other does not.

DSwarP said:
Just because a chipset is capable of supporting a GSM radio, does not mean the GSM radio is installed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I agree, the phone would need to have the GSM software stack, and I mentioned that in my original post that it clearly does not have it. But perhaps GSM is this phones future.

Yep and even with the size of the Evo, cramming the FM - CDMA - EVDO - WiMax as well as the Bluetooth, etc... There's just not room for a GSM stack also...

it's because it shares the same chipset as the HD2....a GSM phone on tmobile.
Much, MUCH cheaper to use the same chipset on multiple phones, no matter the carrier or the band.

[Q] T-mobile LTE Network Upgrades

T-mobile has been announcing a variety of improvements to their LTE wireless network,:
4×2 MiMo, 15+15 and 20+20 LTE networks, 700 mhz.
Is any of this relevant to N4's running LTE? What about the N5?

kmandel said:
T-mobile has been announcing a variety of improvements to their LTE wireless network,:
4×2 MiMo, 15+15 and 20+20 LTE networks, 700 mhz.
Is any of this relevant to N4's running LTE? What about the N5?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely.

scream4cheese said:
Absolutely.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm surprised at your answer. As far as frequency, I thought the N4 only had the hardware for LTE at 1700mhz. For 4x2Mimo I thought it depended on the antenna arrangement in the phone (as well as the tower). I don't know what factors are related to 15+15 and 20+20.
The answer I expected was no for N4 and possibly yes for N5.

The n4 definitely doesnt support 700mhz anything for lte, no existing device (officially) supports band 12, though many recent ones support band 17 (which does not help for band 12).
Weither or not it can do carrier aggregration on the same band in hardware: i doubt it can do it in software (this is just opinion until someone can test it with a terminal emulator).
Even more basic stuff like cell tower location services is broken while in LTE on the N4.
Multi band carrier aggregration definitely isnt possible as the N4 only "supports" a single band.
The S4pro and S600 (technically the MDM9x15M as they both use it) platform should only support a maximum of 2x2 MIMO as they're all only rated for LTE Cat 4 (E-UTRA - User Equipment (UE) categories - Wikipedia)
It's the S800 and newer that use the MDM9x25 and that supports LTE Cat 5, which includes 4 stream MIMO

T-Mobile's new spectrum and phone compatibility

T-Mobile recently acquired a lot of low band spectrum that is supposed to improve reception inside buildings. They say that the T-mobile phones that will be able to take advantage of this spectrum will only be available later this year.
How does it work with spectrum and unlocked non-carrier specific or international versions? Are they compatible with low band spectrum? How can one find out?

I believe it's the 600mhz spectrum and V20 I don't think has the right antenna to use it. As far as I know not even The s8 has it

railshot said:
T-Mobile recently acquired a lot of low band spectrum that is supposed to improve reception inside buildings. They say that the T-mobile phones that will be able to take advantage of this spectrum will only be available later this year.
How does it work with spectrum and unlocked non-carrier specific or international versions? Are they compatible with low band spectrum? How can one find out?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most likely you're thinking of band B12/700MHz. From checking that site, many of the LGE V20s include that band (both US996 and H918).

No idea what band is gonna be used but I did read about T-Mobile acquiring the 600Mhz spectrum. Unfortunately our v20s won't be compatible. More than likely will only incorporate phones made later this year.

railshot said:
T-Mobile recently acquired a lot of low band spectrum that is supposed to improve reception inside buildings. They say that the T-mobile phones that will be able to take advantage of this spectrum will only be available later this year.
How does it work with spectrum and unlocked non-carrier specific or international versions? Are they compatible with low band spectrum? How can one find out?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We will not be able to make use of 600mhz spectrum on any device "To say the least" older then the Note 8 "Presumably the first phone to have 600mhz capable hardware in the coming months"

I find it strange that no V20 is able to utilize 600 MHz spectrum. It was my understanding that until now, other carriers such as ATT did have 600 MHz spectrum. It was just T-Mobile that was deficient. So should not a non-carrier specific phone, or an international model have hardware to use it?