Ics beast rom - Hero, G2 Touch General

Hi there. Been using icebox beast rom and its awesome. Go launcher is a bit choppy though and not as smooth as Id like. Switched to launcher pro and my phone feels like new. So smooth and quick.
Sent from my Hero using XDA

i'd love to use the beast flavor v1.1 too, but the missing multilanguage thing makes me using the HeroICS v3 rom who runs well but not flawless. Anyone try to use the morelocale2 app?? does it translate all the rom? thanks..

Use v0.2 there's hardly any difference
Sent from my Hero using XDA

humm I have some doubts.. most people said this was a major difference and i think also Icebox said it too..

v1.1 it's much more complete. I strongly suggest you try that instead of v0.1 or any other version because v0.1 used CM 7.2 rc2 as a base and people were making noise that after a while the rom becomes heavy and laggy. So v1 had the base changed to Decked_X for much better speed and stability (indeed it is much speedy than v0.1 and go launcher moves smooth on it), though you have only english...

Go launcher not as smooth as launcher pro. I'm on v1.1. Unless I have something that needs setting. Also mediafire is terrible on mobile it wont load
Sent from my Hero using XDA

dodge67 said:
Go launcher not as smooth as launcher pro. I'm on v1.1. Unless I have something that needs setting. Also mediafire is terrible on mobile it wont load
Sent from my Hero using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well yeah, nothing can beat Launcher Pro, but Go launcher moves smooth as well on my hero (using it and my hero is OC'ed only at 176 - 633 mhz)

Still the best rom I've used though . You're a genius
Sent from my Hero using XDA

Is there a reason why Google play store wont install it still has market
Sent from my Hero using XDA

Using holo launcher, which is nice and lightweight
Sent from my Hero using xda premium

dodge67 said:
Is there a reason why Google play store wont install it still has market
Sent from my Hero using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I can't help here since my market upgrades correctly to google play store...
Eh, I do my best to help hero staying alive , glad you find it so good!
@Loxxy, we are talking here about BEAST rom, not HeroICS

1ceb0x said:
Well I can't help here since my market upgrades correctly to google play store...
Eh, I do my best to help hero staying alive , glad you find it so good!
@Loxxy, we are talking here about BEAST rom, not HeroICS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Works on BEAST rom Holo launcher
Sent from my Hero using XDA

dodge67 said:
Works on BEAST rom Holo launcher
Sent from my Hero using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I know. But he has HeroICS at signature, and I thought that he's not using Beast!

1ceb0x said:
Yes, I know. But he has HeroICS at signature, and I thought that he's not using Beast!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry I thought you meant it wont run on beast.
Sent from my Hero using XDA

Related

What's your favorite custom ROM so far? What are you running currently?

I am curious about which ROMs everyone is running and enjoying the most.
Please redirect me if such a thread already exists. I searched the DI forums and didn't find one.
Cm all the way
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
Lovin' me some tasty Froyo, with Sky Raider 1.9.
CM too. Tried Sky Raider, but CM is just so clean and fast I had to switch back. I can live without a camera for a couple weeks
Interested to see the replies to this one as well - I would love to go to CM6, but losing the camera means too much to me right now (work related, sadly).
I tried out CM6 (Koush_Test) last night. The one interesting thing I noticed, was the battery was draining like crazy. The battery stat said the display was utilizing 75%.
I went back, due to not having the Camera... When you have kids, I need to be ready.. It was fun to mess with.
I am on Jager 1.8ota and stock kernel and I love it I was on his 1.8 with the hydra 1.13 kernel which is really great too!
Stock 2.1! I have overclocked/hacked every electronic device in my house that could possibly have it done except for my phone. I want to wait for the official Froyo OTA update then have a go at it (in the meantime I will just have to settle with jtagging my Xbox 360 and setting it up to run games off an external HD =).
Been using 1.2 yasr and have been really happy. I think i just like launcher pro though. Love to do cm6 but the camera is an issue for me as well. Official froyo will be welcomed.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
dspero said:
Been using 1.2 yasr and have been really happy. I think i just like launcher pro though. Love to do cm6 but the camera is an issue for me as well. Official froyo will be welcomed.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is pmf yasr? I habe heared it was good, but i never got around to it.
sent from my friggin phone
jdkoreclipse said:
How is pmf yasr? I habe heared it was good, but i never got around to it.
sent from my friggin phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's good. Basically rooting your phone, removing the junk (sense included), leaving exchange support and adding launcher pro.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
dspero said:
It's good. Basically rooting your phone, removing the junk (sense included), leaving exchange support and adding launcher pro.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is it better or worse than cm6
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
YASR for the win!
jdkoreclipse said:
Is it better or worse than cm6
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's way better it's like stock ROM but without sense and a lot faster and it has great batterylife!! i'm actually using it and it proved that it's the best out there, with an undervolt and overclock hydra kernel you don't need anything else, would love to use skyrider 1.9 but i'm waiting for the camera, i already tried jagger, CM and basically everyone on incredibleroms dot com and believe YASR is way better if you need link just search here in the forum yasr 1.1! =) cheers
skfalco said:
It's way better it's like stock ROM but without sense and a lot faster and it has great batterylife!! i'm actually using it and it proved that it's the best out there, with an undervolt and overclock hydra kernel you don't need anything else, would love to use skyrider 1.9 but i'm waiting for the camera, i already tried jagger, CM and basically everyone on incredibleroms dot com and believe YASR is way better if you need link just search here in the forum yasr 1.1! =) cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
im gonna try that with that detox desire theme and jit. ive been hearing great things about pmf, and im gonna give it a spin.
sent from my friggin phone
Cyanogenmod 6
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

MIUI, Cyanogen, or Sense ROMS??

which guys do you use and WHY?
i use Sense roms mainly for 1 reason...AUTO-FOCUS on VIDEO RECORDING...
i tried MIUI but uninstalled
tried CYANOGEN but eventually went back to SENSE roms.
as off 4/30 i am using MIUI_1.4.29_OsiMood v1.2 + WiFi Calling/ and i must say, i am kinda feeling the overall performance and ui. Might stick to this for a while.
Using CM7 because I've heard it's the quickest and with the best battery life. Never tried Sense outside of store demo's; while pretty I've heard it has lower battery life.
Never tried MIUI, though it looks interesting.
Which miui did you flash? The newer versions have wonderful ui, in my opinion xD ive never really stuck with sense just because there isn't much choice as far as customization goes. Ive run it for a few months though, and my battery life stayed the constant 12 hour drain cycle. Cyanogen is the g2's bread and butter, but UDroid is a good competitor for 2.3.3. Im using the sensation rom that rmk just ported. Just glitchy enough to be usable
It kinda depends on what you want in a rom. The best way to know what to flash is to try it out for yourself.
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using XDA Premium App
ohshootrawr said:
Which miui did you flash? The newer versions have wonderful ui, in my opinion xD ive never really stuck with sense just because there isn't much choice as far as customization goes. Ive run it for a few months though, and my battery life stayed the constant 12 hour drain cycle. Cyanogen is the g2's bread and butter, but UDroid is a good competitor for 2.3.3. Im using the sensation rom that rmk just ported. Just glitchy enough to be usable
It kinda depends on what you want in a rom. The best way to know what to flash is to try it out for yourself.
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which miui rom are u using?
im currently using MIUI_1.4.29_OsiMood v1.2 + WiFi Calling
but found that alarm clock would force close and alot of other apps would force close.
never tried miui, but have tried a sense rom, and immediately went back to CM7. even with CM problems at times, it has been the best overall. I did not like sense at all. Sense tho does have some nice widgets and i would like to have some of them on CM7. beyond that, ill stick with CM7, my phone only started acting out when i changed from CM to other roms so ill be staying with CM7 period. my phone had no problems until i changed to another rom. so i guess im more scared to try other roms now lol
Am for MIUI all the way... It's just a personal like thing you know.
Sent from my HTC Desire Z using XDA Premium App
MIUI is kinda laggy, i love the newly leaked rom fro tmobile, but somehow it won't recognize my router so i can't use wifi at home. so at this moment i will stick with cm7
Well, i like Sense rom as it link my FB,Twitter & contact with great Clock/Weather/Friendstream Widget. It's free (unlike Launcher Pro that u need to pay). once got the OC kernel, my Desire Z is superb!
Cyanogen doesnt have autofocus on picture/video?
I strangely doubt that and even if it doesnt, there is problably a alternative.
bstylz911 said:
Which miui rom are u using?
im currently using MIUI_1.4.29_OsiMood v1.2 + WiFi Calling
but found that alarm clock would force close and alot of other apps would force close.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't ever use another miui that isn't from ganii. His rom's are always more stable for some reason. He just released his version of .29, you might wanna use that instead.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
Dante_Lv said:
MIUI is kinda laggy, i love the newly leaked rom fro tmobile, but somehow it won't recognize my router so i can't use wifi at home. so at this moment i will stick with cm7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Odd... I never get lag
Sent from my HTC Desire Z using XDA Premium App
ohshootrawr said:
Don't ever use another miui that isn't from ganii. His rom's are always more stable for some reason. He just released his version of .29, you might wanna use that instead.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that's your personal opinion... I dont use Ganii Miui rom. I have nothing against Ganii I think his a great dev.
Sent from my HTC Desire Z using XDA Premium App
I say cm7 is the best. But it all comes down to what u like personally. My girl has virtuous and thats a hell of a good rom too. I might try the new miui soon.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
lainvalenajr said:
I think that's your personal opinion... I dont use Ganii Miui rom. I have nothing against Ganii I think his a great dev.
Sent from my HTC Desire Z using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed... shouldn't really hate on other devs miui's. they both work great and ive had no issues with either.. i use both depending on what i feel like updating to..
im currently running ganii 4.22.. i don't wanna update and have no reason to latest build of miui.. change log doesn't interest me, and i don't wanna have my theme uncompatable or lose trackpad wake.
and miui has never lagged for me, and shown better battery life than cm7, cm7 kinda gets "boring" after a while.. just personal opinion thou.. i like it, but i like the customization of miui better. plus its alot easier to change themes.
idc for sense.. i havent used it for a while, but i always had some lag issues although im sure they are fixed now, and customization was minimal.. besides there sense layouts..
umm I'm on UD ROM 3.3.0 and i can truly say im pleased with my G2 at the moment, but I've always wanted to try a Miui Rom, but i don't know where to find it? can anyone provide some links and tuts?
citykiid said:
umm I'm on UD ROM 3.3.0 and i can truly say im pleased with my G2 at the moment, but I've always wanted to try a Miui Rom, but i don't know where to find it? can anyone provide some links and tuts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MiUI Rom
Please check out that link!!
After trying numerous versions of all three, I usually stick with a custom version of CM7 or Stock GB roms. MIUI, while pretty, just doesn't do it for me. I don't like the layout. Sense is nice, but once again, I don't like how it is setup.
Ever since I flashed OsiMood MIUI, I've never looked back. I've tried CM, Ultimate Droid and MIUI and the latter just has everything that I want in my phone. I've only tried Sense on somebody elses phone but didn't like it one bit.
MIUI is not only visually stimulating, but also has a great UI and is very easy to theme. Everything about it is just great and I would recommend it before any other ROM.
Sent from my HTC Desire Z using XDA Premium App
Ever since I tried MIUI OsiMood 1.06.03 I never seen anything so good. I am comfortable with the iPhone UI and the fast blazing feel. However the battery life is a little off, so you might need to download "JuiceDefender" but everything else the keep improving so no need to worry, the battery life gets better and better every update. You guys should give it a spin. This rom is amazing!!!
Sent from my HTC Desire Z using XDA Premium App
i use Sense ... Widgets.

Ice cream sandwich launcher

hey this is a Ice cream sandwitch launcher its pretty cool and works on our phone i cant take credits its from another web site but i cant post the site due to forum rules i will try to keep the apk file updated if people like it will attach screen shots as well here is the updated version of the app get it from market https://market.android.com/details?i...=search_result
very nice =d
Pretty nice
Tried it out. Its lags all around but I like the launcher it self. Would be nice to see it run more smoothly. Also got alot of FC. To be expected though. Running IHO
Sent from my LG-VM670 using xda premium
i tried to use the launcher settings but it FC's..
but its good ~
Yea something about transfer setting the basic settings work though it is still in beta so I will update the apk as they make them
Sent from my LG-P500 using XDA Premium App running Phoenix ROM over clocked at 806
Awesome thanks for the apk to begin with. Hit your thanks butyon
Sent from my LG-VM670 using xda premium
Its nice but needs to be Polish and have more settings and the running Apps think need to fixing
LG O1 Running Cm7 Mik_OS 2.35
is same to this below link launcher
https://market.android.com/details?id=mobi.SyndicateApps.ICS&feature=search_result
XeactorZ said:
is same to this below link launcher
https://market.android.com/details?id=mobi.SyndicateApps.ICS&feature=search_result
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep lol sorry didn't know it was in the market thank you
Sent from my LG-P500 using XDA Premium App running Phoenix ROM over clocked at 806
dislplin01 said:
Yep lol sorry didn't know it was in the market thank you
Sent from my LG-P500 using XDA Premium App running Phoenix ROM over clocked at 806
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i also nothing to do then go and search
and found it lolx
anyway please edit ur post with the link i post so that can keep update with the launcher
*and i found today release @@
it look's pretty nice , im gonna take this thanks m8 !
(Y)
good jooob, (even tough u may not made it,) but its looks awesome but its sucks when using the button to right, its awefully bad, and shows recent apps, (i dont use or got mail, but its in recent list, how funny, )
SWEATTAIMI said:
good jooob, (even tough u may not made it,) but its looks awesome but its sucks when using the button to right, its awefully bad, and shows recent apps, (i dont use or got mail, but its in recent list, how funny, )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I think cause it is still in testing but I thought it was cool and would share it
Sent from my LG-P500 using XDA Premium App running Phoenix ROM over clocked at 806
nice found ;-) thx
Thanks. Look nice. Seems smooth enough.
Sent from my LG-P500 using XDA App
The App is nice but I like using the ICS theme for ADW Ex better. It looks nicer and it has the real icons. If only I could get a stand alone app of the menu carousel and the keyboard!
Sent from my LG-P505 using xda premium
wow!! this is great!!! nw if only sum1 cud actually port ICS to optimus one!
pratheekb96 said:
wow!! this is great!!! nw if only sum1 cud actually port ICS to optimus one!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Theres a wip waitin for sources
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium

Video -this is how i think dhd should be =)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xTsAHU_XQo
Desire HD RCMix Runny v1.3 ROM + REVOlution theme
Overclocked @1.6ghz + supercharger + kernelizer tweaks
ROM: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1261721
Theme: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=884888
Sense 3.5 and Beats Audio working, superfast rom that makes even YOU jellous..battery life is really good..i forgot to show in video but since last charge it has gone 1d.18h and still can make it few more hours =) **** IPHONE..RIGHT?!
Looks good !
That may well be my next sense ROM, gonna go non sense next though.
ponk2k said:
That may well be my next sense ROM, gonna go non sense next though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have 3 roms installed at same time -miui,cyanogen,rcmix and i witch sometimes, but i always get back to sense.. it gives android so much more functions and personality.. just the way i want it =)
I only rooted a few days back so i'm still getting up to speed but do you mind pointing me in the direction of a tut about running multiple roms. Much appreciated
ponk2k said:
I only rooted a few days back so i'm still getting up to speed but do you mind pointing me in the direction of a tut about running multiple roms. Much appreciated
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you need boot manager.. paid app from market
Ok cool, I'll probably give it a miss if I have to pay for it though life ain't cheap for me at the moment
Don't know about you guys but I'm tired of sense. After not using it the only thing I miss is beats and the camera app.
Uses so much battery to produce a wishy washy oh look at me effects, are they really needed?.... No. Cyanogenmod ftw!
Sent from my Desire HD using xda premium
affinity121 said:
Don't know about you guys but I'm tired of sense. After not using it the only thing I miss is beats and the camera app.
Uses so much battery to produce a wishy washy oh look at me effects, are they really needed?.... No. Cyanogenmod ftw!
Sent from my Desire HD using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont really agree with you..
I was using Virtuous ROM. It was pretty cool, but when i flash a new virtuous rom without wiping, my DHD sometimes restarts. So i don't know if it was because od no wipe, or in the rom, i flashed runny 1.4, and i am happy with it.
I love Sense, hate iPhone, so i hate something like MIUI or whatever
It only takes a few more minutes to wipe and it's gonna lessen your chances of problems so i'm not sure why you don't. I'm sure you needed to wipe when you flashed runny too so I guess that was what the problem was. Anyway I hear nothing but good things about it so all the best
infexis said:
I dont really agree with you..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess you prefer visuals over extended battery life then! It's a personal choice.
Sent from my Desire HD using xda premium
affinity121 said:
I guess you prefer visuals over extended battery life then! It's a personal choice.
Sent from my Desire HD using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am pretty satisfied with 2.5-3days battery life..i bet you dont have it much better or what? You see, i dont have to choose between features, performance, Visuals and batterylife..i get it all =)
affinity121 said:
Don't know about you guys but I'm tired of sense. After not using it the only thing I miss is beats and the camera app.
Uses so much battery to produce a wishy washy oh look at me effects, are they really needed?.... No. Cyanogenmod ftw!
Sent from my Desire HD using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats the cool thing about android you have the choices!
I'm currently on MIUI and really love the theming possibilities (want another launcher effect? just hit 2 buttons and switch from 2d iphone style to 3d sense 3 style ), the fully working bluetooth drivers and the music app is just perfect. And it was worth it just for putting on the iphone4 theme and showing it to my applefanboy buddy. muhaha the look on his face - prizeless.
But i'm missing some sense stuff as well. Especially the camera and the mail/weather app. You have to make compromises or look for replacements with some apps. I think ill stick with MIUI until HTC releases an official Sense 3.x version for our DHD
infexis said:
I am pretty satisfied with 2.5-3days battery life..i bet you dont have it much better or what? You see, i dont have to choose between features, performance, Visuals and batterylife..i get it all =)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no way your are getting 3 days battery life with moderate to high usage. It's a fact sense is a battery hog there is no denying it.
Sent from my Desire HD using xda premium
@infexis You say you have miui dual booting on RCMix3D? How? When I do it, it boots from sense (phone ROM) to miui (sd) fine, but when I try to boot back into sense it bootloops. Miui is ext2
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using XDA App
affinity121 said:
There is no way your are getting 3 days battery life with moderate to high usage. It's a fact sense is a battery hog there is no denying it.
Sent from my Desire HD using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really don't have a reason to lie..just trying to help out
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using Tapatalk
Quinny899 said:
@infexis You say you have miui dual booting on RCMix3D? How? When I do it, it boots from sense (phone ROM) to miui (sd) fine, but when I try to boot back into sense it bootloops. Miui is ext2
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Works perfect for me..I didnt do anything special..just installed on bootmanager and it works good
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using Tapatalk

EVO 4G--JTG-ICS 4.0.3 or DECK-ICS 4.0.3

Been using ics-deck-evo-alpha5 for a little more then a week now and loving it. Also watching jaredthegreats thread (JTG-ICS-4.0.3-B2.0.zip) and curious if anyone knows what may be different? From what I found deck's is still alpha but JTG's is beta 2?
I prefer Decks. Trebuchet is the biggest handcuff as it throws errors constantly. Your options are Nova Launcher or Go Launcher. Both support ICS. I LOVE LOVE LOVE GoLauncher EX.
Agreed I also LOVE LOVE LOVE GoLauncher EX
anyway to just use the stock launcher with Deck? I remember it was included with one of the pre alphas and it worked great. (I don't mind not having the customizations so stock is fine with me)
Mattie Num Nums said:
I prefer Decks. Trebuchet is the biggest handcuff as it throws errors constantly. Your options are Nova Launcher or Go Launcher. Both support ICS. I LOVE LOVE LOVE GoLauncher EX.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My build has nova.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
cesjr02 said:
anyway to just use the stock launcher with Deck? I remember it was included with one of the pre alphas and it worked great. (I don't mind not having the customizations so stock is fine with me)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not as easy on further developed roms, the stock launcher crashes a lot. So stock launcher will prob be available once the roms are more complete
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
I'm using JTG beta 2, and I would say go with that. It is being actively worked on to get rid of kinks, and I find it runs really smooth after using the COD tweaks
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Sorry to be uninformed but what is "COD" tweaks?
evoer said:
Sorry to be uninformed but what is "COD" tweaks?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://vaelek.com/index.php/topic/1916-guide-car-o-dopes-supersonic-tweaking-guide-v102-120411/
It is a RAM manager that makes you phone much faster. It works with any ROM, try it out!
rocket999 said:
http://vaelek.com/index.php/topic/1916-guide-car-o-dopes-supersonic-tweaking-guide-v102-120411/
It is a RAM manager that makes you phone much faster. It works with any ROM, try it out!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that worked great on icsmod, but i dont see a lick of difference on JTG 4.03 Beta 2.0
I'm using JTG beta 2, But I feel there's a lot of FC's on that. So I wish it more stable soon.
serqut said:
I'm using JTG beta 2, But I feel there's a lot of FC's on that. So I wish it more stable soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try the car-o-dope tweaks and report back if it stops some of the FC's. I know it's helped me out in the past with beta roms.
http://vaelek.com/index.php/topic/1916-guide-car-o-dopes-supersonic-tweaking-guide-v102-120411/
94tbird said:
that worked great on icsmod, but i dont see a lick of difference on JTG 4.03 Beta 2.0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
gonna quote myself here and admit the launcher was the problem on JTG. too damn slow. Once i switched to Go Ex, the rom became super snappy!
How does PreludeDrews compare to these?
I'm on Drew's and it works great for me. I've tried all three and for some reason Drew's has the fewest problems on my phone. I think you need to flash all three and see which one works best on your phone.
jaredstein21 said:
I'm on Drew's and it works great for me. I've tried all three and for some reason Drew's has the fewest problems on my phone. I think you need to flash all three and see which one works best on your phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+ 1
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
been running jared's b2 and now b2.5, and its really smooth and fast. only fc on b2 was m fault, i wasnt paying attention and selected a preset in dsp manager and i still have yet to see a fc on b2.5. absolutely loving it!
Try drews . Its the common base
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
scottspa74 said:
Try drews . Its the common base
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah...what is even the difference between them? Who are the real devs? I've flashed all three and they seem identical.
curious... where does one find drews rom? i remember it was on here for a while but then he got all mad and left to another site and i never quite found out which one...

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