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Since no one replied to this message in the official CM 5.0 thread. I have decided to create a new thread and hope to find a solution to this problem.
My alarm clock would stop working randomly ever since I flashed to CM 5.0, from Beta 4 to 5..2, the problem persists. If i set an alarm that is about one hour from now, it would go off. But the real alarm I need which is supposed to go off at 8 am in the morning never goes off. Anyone had similar problems? I read Cyanogen's warning about the alarm clock problem. But seems he's just trying to remind you to reset your alarm after flashing to CM. Unluckily, I've reset my alarm numerous times and it never goes off in the morning.
Anyone can give me a hand? Thanks in advance! Overall, CM is a great ROM which gives me the option to use open vpn, which is vital for me since I'm living in China behind the GFW.
Are you by chance using any taskillers?
I do use a task-killer program. But I always keep the clock app on while i'm sleeping to try to make sure the alarm goes off on time. But it never does in the morning.
Don't use task killers on the N1, there really is no need.
cyanogen said:
Don't use task killers on the N1, there really is no need.
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Click to collapse
I wouldn't say that's accurate... The phone does slow down noticeably when you have 20-30+ things open
Sometimes a lot of them are running as well (using TasKiller, a lot of Yellow, including Camera, Gmail etc even when not in use and no emails being downloaded). This probably affects battery life as well.
Paul22000 said:
I wouldn't say that's accurate... The phone does slow down noticeably when you have 20-30+ things open
Sometimes a lot of them are running as well (using TasKiller, a lot of Yellow, including Camera, Gmail etc even when not in use and no emails being downloaded). This probably affects battery life as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have any evidence to back this up? Yes this was a problem on older devices because many things would be fighting over the tiny amount of RAM.
You'll see lots of processes running but that's just the way Android works. Since it doesn't really benefit from simple caching like a normal linux system would, it just keeps everything running and kills unused stuff when memory is low. Most of the things you see running are either paused and using no CPU, or are services that would be periodically launched anyway.
http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/fundamentals.html#lcycles
Keeping these processes alive should actually be saving you battery rather than using it. It's more expensive to launch and restore the state of an application or service after being killed than it is to simply resume one that's been paused.
cyanogen said:
Do you have any evidence to back this up? Yes this was a problem on older devices because many things would be fighting over the tiny amount of RAM.
You'll see lots of processes running but that's just the way Android works. Since it doesn't really benefit from simple caching like a normal linux system would, it just keeps everything running and kills unused stuff when memory is low. Most of the things you see running are either paused and using no CPU, or are services that would be periodically launched anyway.
http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/fundamentals.html#lcycles
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. The phone gets slow when TasKiller shows 30 things in it. I click close all, and it's faster. Do you know my personal experiences more than I do?
Paul22000 said:
Yes. The phone gets slow when TasKiller shows 30 things in it. I click close all, and it's faster. Do you know my personal experiences more than I do?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think there is likely one or two specific misbehaving applications that are giving you trouble, rather than the way the system works as a whole, thats all.
I think what Cyanogen is saying is that android does not handle running processes the way other os's do They have a lifecycle that is non-obvious to someone just looking at a process list. If you insist on killing tasks outside of the activity/service lifecycle they you _will_ get service failures (like the alarm clock) its up to you what you value more.
I have not installed any sort of task manager (outside what's in astro but I don't use it) and never see any noticeable slow down.
Anyway - back on topic.
Yes I have the same issue, never had it before.
Since flashine 5.0.2 my alarm doesn't work in the morning.
The linux kernel keeps a buffer cache of recently used files in RAM. So whenever an application wants to access something on the flash, instead of going to the flash file system, it can just get it from the file buffer cache in RAM, a significant speed increase.
If the RAM is currently being taken up by unused android apps, then that leaves less room for the buffer cache, so in theory, by killing off unused android apps more quickly, that will allow the linux kernel to allocate more space for the buffer cache and thus speeding up the system.
Am I way off here?
Dave
cyanogen said:
Do you have any evidence to back this up? Yes this was a problem on older devices because many things would be fighting over the tiny amount of RAM.
You'll see lots of processes running but that's just the way Android works. Since it doesn't really benefit from simple caching like a normal linux system would, it just keeps everything running and kills unused stuff when memory is low. Most of the things you see running are either paused and using no CPU, or are services that would be periodically launched anyway.
http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/fundamentals.html#lcycles
Keeping these processes alive should actually be saving you battery rather than using it. It's more expensive to launch and restore the state of an application or service after being killed than it is to simply resume one that's been paused.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would have to agree with Cyanogen on this one. When I first got my N1, I looked towards task killers to help alleviate slowdown, but in the end, I think it's just the placebo effect in a way; you did something to try to solve the problem, and so therefore you perceive a difference.
In other words, task killers aren't needed on this beast of a phone. As for battery life (if that's an issue), look into SetCpu.
Thanks for the reply Cyanogen. I think not using task-killer, or at least not killing the clock app got my alarm working this morning. But I use task-killer not for the purpose of saving ram, but for using less data. Some programs such as facebook or a twitter client would try to connect to the internet every once in a while. I'm on a low data limit plan in China. So I don't want those programs to eat up all my data. When I'm on wifi at home, I don't worry about that. Thanks again.
Same problem. Don't use taskkillers, flashed last CM last night and didn't wake up on time this morning - alarm didn't work, thought I checked that clock icon was on place on notification bar
amwayorlando said:
But I use task-killer not for the purpose of saving ram, but for using less data. Some programs such as facebook or a twitter client would try to connect to the internet every once in a while. I'm on a low data limit plan in China. So I don't want those programs to eat up all my data.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you thought about using something like APNDroid or Toggle Data, to just switch off the cell data when you don't want to use it?
Or, Modify the behavior of the applications you don't want using data?
I have my facebook and twitter for example set to manual update only (for battery saving purposes) because there's nothing there that is critical important info, and I don't need to be notified.
Nice thread though, I'm pretty sure I try to keep people informed that task-killers aren't needed and cause issues, everywhere where it comes up. I find humor that people will still argue, even with a developer, this fact. I've had 150+ hours uptime with no slowdown (and 30 apps running) on the stock rom (without highmem support).
bofslime said:
Or, Modify the behavior of the applications you don't want using data?
I have my facebook and twitter for example set to manual update only (for battery saving purposes) because there's nothing there that is critical important info, and I don't need to be notified.
Nice thread though, I'm pretty sure I try to keep people informed that task-killers aren't needed and cause issues, everywhere where it comes up. I find humor that people will still argue, even with a developer, this fact. I've had 150+ hours uptime with no slowdown (and 30 apps running) on the stock rom (without highmem support).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then please inform us of a thread that can verify what you all are saying. Not in an argumentative tone, my linpack score drastically improves after 16 hours of uptime, and a task-killer.
Rom:CM 5.0.2 -OC Kernel
wesbalmer said:
Then please inform us of a thread that can verify what you all are saying. Not in an argumentative tone, my linpack score drastically improves after 16 hours of uptime, and a task-killer.
Rom:CM 5.0.2 -OC Kernel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This has basically been discussed into the ground. In my eye's, its a fight vs what I like to call "Windows XP mentality", and that there was benefit on phones like the G1. With the copious amounts of memory on the N1 and droid, they cause way more harm, and immeasurable good (if any).
Summary thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=627836
I've linked to quotes from others.
Threads/posts of interest: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5494890#post5494890
And: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5298630#post5298630
Well, this discussion is very interesting, but lets return to our problem with non-working alarm.
I've noticed a serious problem with the way android handles multitasking, at least for me. if I am using opera mini browsing, and I switch to the built in browser and go to a bookmark and load a page, now when I'm done and I go back to opera mini it starts a brand new session of opera. I've lost my page that I had open.
my free RAM during this is around 35 mb. this is why I think we should have control over what runs in the background rather than the OS just loading up everything and deciding for us. I don't have any services or anything running during this time, and I'm on the stock ROM. anyone else experienced this? anyone think this is a serious usability issue?
I've been testing this every which way, using either the home button to switch or long pressing home button to switch, and every single time opera closes.
my current free
No, that is just the way opera was made.
Why blame the os its the app...
Yep, its only Opera. I don't use it anyways, but when I did - I do remember this issue, well I guess its an issue..
its not opera because this issue doesn't happen if you do not go to the bookmarks of the default browser. go ahead and try it out. I can go open 10 other apps and multi task, and I can still return to opera mini on the same page I left it at. its most certainly not a problem with opera mini. It's a problem with the way the OS handles certain events giving them priorities over others, I.e. default browser bookmarks gets some higher priority. so again if we had the ability to actually control what we want to run, it would be better.
Sent from my Nexus One using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
Wait a second, my Opera stays on the same page I left off on, even if I plenty of other applications open. A lot.. Maybe cause I'm rooted, and I have more RAM at the time? I am also using Dolphin, and the default.. and it still is leaving off at the same page.
RogerPodacter said:
my free RAM during this is around 35 mb.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This sounds fairly low.
How many apps do you have?
Are you rooted / using a custom rom?
Paul22000 said:
This sounds fairly low.
How many apps do you have?
Are you rooted / using a custom rom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He said he is using the stock ROM in the first post. :/
Eclair~ said:
He said he is using the stock ROM in the first post. :/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Woops, missed that somehow.
Well... There's the problem haha!
ok maybe I jumped the gun, because I closed all my apps in one swoop and still only had 30 mb free RAM. so I did a reboot and now my opera mini does not close no matter what I do.
that's strange though, I guess its good to reboot once in a while as something ate up all my RAM. it was at the point where I closed every service and every app with a task manager, and still had barely any ram. my bad guys.
Sent from my Nexus One using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
RogerPodacter said:
that's strange though, I guess its good to reboot once in a while as something ate up all my RAM. it was at the point where I closed every service and every app with a task manager, and still had barely any ram. my bad guys.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not your bad, Opera's bad. They should do a better job of saving application state so that when the OS shuts it down it doesn't cause you to lose the page you were on.
OK i'm having this same exact problem again. All day yesterday i was browsing with opera mini, press home button to perform other tasks, and come back and it is still showing the same web page i was reading.
but then last night all i had to do was check my email real quick, i switch away from opera with the home button press, and go back to opera and it now has to re-load the entire app, taking me to the start page again. surely this is some problem with the way android OS handles multitasking, no? i mean the app obviously was saving my page all day yesterday, just like its supposed to. but then it suddenly STOPS doing this.
my free RAM was again down near 30MB because the OS has loaded a million apps that i dont need. yet the OS then will close the one app i DO need, opera mini, while leaving all these useless apps running, which i didnt even ever need or open in the first place!!
am i the only one who has a problem with this method of OS task management?
i'm sure a reboot will free up all the RAM and things will work normally again. but isnt android a linux based OS? shouldnt linux be able to run for days or even weeks without the need to reboot the phone just to set the RAM back on track?
very frustrated!
If you have a mirror handy, kindly gaze into it and you will find your problem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFytHoXdG3E
lol
RogerPodacter said:
surely this is some problem with the way android OS handles multitasking, no?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No.
Again, this isn't a problem with Androids method of multitasking, it's a problem with the way Opera was written. It's not saving it's state properly. It should, but they haven't written it properly.
Opera obviously doesn't behave the way you expect, so my suggestion is to use something else until they have fixed it.
I just can't get on board with that argument. so the OS is giving priority to apps like tuneWiki, which I haven't opened in 3 weeks, over an app that I just switched away from 10 seconds ago is the best way for the OS to operate?
I would agree if my issue happened every single time. but 95% of the time opera stays open like its supposed to. so that tells me it IS doing what its supposed to. but in certain situations it just magically disappears even though it was just in use a few moments before.
I agree that opera is not saving state properly when the OS decides to close it. but why can't the OS leave it open with all the RAM and CPU power this phone has? this situation shouldn't even be happening whether opera is coded right or not.
I made a post on the opera forums to see if maybe they know about it and have a solution.
RogerPodacter said:
I just can't get on board with that argument. so the OS is giving priority to apps like tuneWiki, which I haven't opened in 3 weeks, over an app that I just switched away from 10 seconds ago is the best way for the OS to operate?
I would agree if my issue happened every single time. but 95% of the time opera stays open like its supposed to. so that tells me it IS doing what its supposed to. but in certain situations it just magically disappears even though it was just in use a few moments before.
I agree that opera is not saving state properly when the OS decides to close it. but why can't the OS leave it open with all the RAM and CPU power this phone has? this situation shouldn't even be happening whether opera is coded right or not.
I made a post on the opera forums to see if maybe they know about it and have a solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure you're understanding what everyone else in this thread is saying, so here's another way to think about it:
Can you name another big-name app that behaves in the same constant state-losing behavior as Opera?
RogerPodacter said:
so the OS is giving priority to apps like tuneWiki, which I haven't opened in 3 weeks, over an app that I just switched away from 10 seconds ago is the best way for the OS to operate?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The fact that it feels like tuneWiki hasn't been closed even though you haven't used it in 3 weeks lead me to believe that the tuneWiki guys have done it correctly and as a result the user can't tell if the app has been running the whole time or if it is actually loading up a fresh copy of it (loading speed might be the only way to tell). Opera with tabs open probably uses a lot more memory than most programs, so it's a good candidate to close down when memory is needed which is probably why it keeps happening to you.
What Opera should be doing is taking a snapshot of the tabs you have open when you switch to a different applications and writing it to permanent storage so that if it does happen that it get's closed down by the system, when it starts up again later it can reload all of the tabs. It doesn't need to store the page data, just the URLs. I don't know why they don't do that for Opera Mini as their desktop browser does it perfectly.
If you are interested, this developer video on Android application lifecyle might clear things up a bit:
http://developer.android.com/videos/index.html#v=fL6gSd4ugSI
Send Opera an email and tell them to use meta data to remember where you were.
RogerPodacter said:
I just can't get on board with that argument. so the OS is giving priority to apps like tuneWiki, which I haven't opened in 3 weeks, over an app that I just switched away from 10 seconds ago is the best way for the OS to operate?
I would agree if my issue happened every single time. but 95% of the time opera stays open like its supposed to. so that tells me it IS doing what its supposed to. but in certain situations it just magically disappears even though it was just in use a few moments before.
I agree that opera is not saving state properly when the OS decides to close it. but why can't the OS leave it open with all the RAM and CPU power this phone has? this situation shouldn't even be happening whether opera is coded right or not.
I made a post on the opera forums to see if maybe they know about it and have a solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Each properly coded app speaks up and says "I Have _____displaying on screen, I have ____data on hand and I'm doing______".
If the OS says "sorry bud, you gotta go away cause the guy that's always fondling me(you the user) needs to do something else, go away" then that program is killed and that information saved.
Next time you open up your app, the OS asks "alright, I just got finished showing this guy settings, now he needs you again, do you remember where you were when I sent you away?"
If yes, then boom, you are back to where you were. If not then, your app goes back to square one.
Seems opera mini isn't properly implementing their save states. It's an issue with the application not the OS.
RogerPodacter said:
I just can't get on board with that argument.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
YOU MUST UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS OPERA'S FAULT. THE DEVELOPERS DID NOT PROPERLY WRITE THE PROGRAM TO SAVE CURRENT STATE. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANDROID OS
RogerPodacter said:
I've noticed a serious problem with the way android handles multitasking, at least for me. if I am using opera mini browsing, and I switch to the built in browser and go to a bookmark and load a page, now when I'm done and I go back to opera mini it starts a brand new session of opera. I've lost my page that I had open.
my free RAM during this is around 35 mb. this is why I think we should have control over what runs in the background rather than the OS just loading up everything and deciding for us. I don't have any services or anything running during this time, and I'm on the stock ROM. anyone else experienced this? anyone think this is a serious usability issue?
I've been testing this every which way, using either the home button to switch or long pressing home button to switch, and every single time opera closes.
my current free
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is already an issue that has been brought up in a previous post. They came to the conclusion that it was the app, and in all common sense, it is the app. There is no reason to blame the OS, that is Android. Might i recommend rooting your phone and uploading a fine ROM like CyanogenMOD? I think it would be on your best interest to do so.
so the OS is giving priority to apps like tuneWiki, which I haven't opened in 3 weeks, over an app that I just switched away from 10 seconds ago is th
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The fact that it feels like tuneWiki hasn't been closed even though you haven't used it in 3 weeks lead me to believe that the tuneWiki guys have done it correctly and as a result the user can't tell if the app has been running the whole time or if it is actually loading up a fresh copy of it (loading speed might be the only way to tell). Opera with tabs open probably uses a lot more memory than most programs, so it's a good candidate to close down when memory is needed which is probably why it keeps happening to you.
What Opera should be doing is taking a snapshot of the tabs you have open when you switch to a different applications and writing it to permanent storage so that if it does happen that it get's closed down by the system, when it starts up again later it can reload all of the tabs. It doesn't need to store the page data, just the URLs. I don't know why they don't do that for Opera Mini as their desktop browser does it perfectly.
If you are interested, this developer video on Android application lifecyle might clear things up a bit:
http://developer.android.com/videos/index.html#v=fL6gSd4ugSI
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just to be clear I literally haven't opened tuneWiki in 3 weeks, and have done many reboots since then. it was just an example of one of the many apps I see running in the background, which I've never opened in weeks, yet the one I just used is the first to close.
to the other replies, I'm not confused and understand what's going on. I just think its a major flaw whether opera is saving state correctly or not.
9 out of 10 times I can switch away, do my tasks, come back and opera is still there where I was browsing. I just don't like the inconsistency. I feel like I have nocontrol over what and how I want my apps to run.
also if opera mini DID have to save my tabs and reload them, then that would be horrible as it takes certain time to get the proxy server going and then reload the pages. the current method where It's just instantly there, still in memory, is the best way for it to happen. and it DOES work this way majority of the time.
On Froyo...Unable to get "pre fetch" articles working reliably.
I have 5 tabs of news..3 of them custom. Set to 3 hour checks , prefetch articles , not not images.
Id say maybe 1 out of every 10 articles actually prefetches. The rest load up the browser and I have to wait for it to launch...before Froyo It was at least close to half.
80% of this app usage for me is Offline reading.
Anyone able to get this working properly ?
I just cant get it to function properly on offline viewing , anyone have any recommendations for an alternative ?
if you have an active data connection then the news app will not use the prefetch article and will attempt to load the latest version using the browser. if you disable data then it will use the prefetched article, this is by design (which i think sucks, should be option to force useage of prefetched article)
My single biggest gripe with the Android OS is the way it closes backgrounded applications without the user's permission, unrelated to available memory but rather amount of time the app is left idle. I can be editing a Word document in QuickOffice or Docs-to-Go, then get an incoming call, answer it and talk for ten minutes, only to find my Office application has been closed and all my changes have been lost.
I am wondering if perhaps by some small miracle, the Atrix has been programmed differently from other Android devices NOT to do this, because of its intended function as a desktop substitute via the Webtop environment. No one ever wants their desktop/laptop computer shutting down applications because they left to grab a coffee for ten minutes, so I'm hoping maybe the Moto devs took this into account and somehow turned off the "auto close backgrounded apps if left idle for X minutes" functionality of Android.
It's only a slim hope I'm holding out regarding this, but maybe someone can answer definitively one way or the other.. anyone know for sure?
No, it's still the same operating system. The Webtop is completely separate from Android.
Nope. I'm slightly annoyed every time adw ex is background killed just because I was reading my email, and it has to completely reload.
Not only that, but gingerbread took away the option to keep the launcher persistent
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
If your app doesn't restore the previous state on restart, then the app developer is to blame, not android. Just saying
turl1 said:
If your app doesn't restore the previous state on restart, then the app developer is to blame, not android. Just saying
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but Motorola's responsible for any killing of webtop. X isn't designed to be magically killed the way that Android kills things.
It is worth pointing out this is less of an issue on Atrix given the 1Gb of RAM... but yes, this is still Android and as such the memory management is ultimately the same.
I have had cases on the Atrix where I am playing Angry Birds, get distracted and browse the web, forget I was playing the game... then return to the game 1 hour later to find it's still running as I left it. This certainly would NOT have happened on my Galaxy S!
Sogarth said:
Sorry, but Motorola's responsible for any killing of webtop. X isn't designed to be magically killed the way that Android kills things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We were talking about android apps though
turl1 said:
If your app doesn't restore the previous state on restart, then the app developer is to blame, not android. Just saying
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most apps do restore previous state.
They also take a while to do so.
On the other hand, my biggest gripe is resolved: cm7 has an built in option under he performance setting to keep the launcher persistant, so I don't really care anymore
Sent from my NookColor using Tapatalk
From my understanding of Android programming, it only closes Background tasks automatically, all apps are started as Background tasks by default, it's up to the app to tell Android that it's a Foreground app, and it can't be closed automatically.
Hmm, I've used QuickOffice and left it alone for a while (got distracted, went on the internet, checked emails, turned off the screen, etc) and it was still all there when I came back. Does it happen to you frequently?
As a test I just made a new word document and typed some random stuff into it. I'll leave it alone for a day in the background and see if it's still there tomorrow...
Restoring to previous state works for some types of apps, but for others it's not a viable solution. For example streaming radio applications or chat programs like eBuddy, Fring, Skype etc. These need to be left running constantly in the background, not just restored to where they left off, because otherwise you're not available to be contacted through them while they're closed/offline. Some of those apps use the workaround of an ongoing notification to avoid being shut down, but that is really just a trick that developers shouldn't have to resort to.
I find that both QuickOffice and Documents-To-Go get shut down constantly when left idle in the background, even with nothing else running or using memory, and after only ten minutes or so of idle time. And I always lose all unsaved changes - the previous state is never restored.
What seems to happen is this: I can leave a document in the background for hours, and then come back to it okay, IF I don't do anything else in between. But if before returning to the open document, I launch ANY other app first, even a very small footprint one like a notepad, THAT is when the previously backgrounded apps like QuickOffice get closed by Android. It seems that Android's auto-close-after-idle activity is triggered by the next time the user launches something else. That's when the check is done and idle apps get shut down.
There are free app-switching utilities like AltTabApps and Smart Taskbar which allow you to easily see which windowed apps/tasks are still currently running. Using these I have tested and confirmed that I can actually leave quite a few things running idle in the background for a full day, and every time I keep checking, they are all still there and open, waiting to be switched back to. But then as soon as I open a new small app, and all those others have been sitting there idle and backgrounded for long enough, *POOF*, they all get closed instananeously the moment the new app is opened.
And like I said it's not related to memory, because I can see how much is free, and the app I end up opening is very small as well.
So if you're going to test, don't just leave it for a day and then try to come back to it. Before you go back to it, open something else that ISN'T already running (such as email or text messaging which are always quietly open already).. choose a brand new app to open and then try to go back to your Quickoffice document. On the three or four Android 2.2 devices on which I have tried this, I have never, ever been able to return to a document without losing all changes.
Sorry for the long message.. just important to point out the mechanism at work so as to avoid a false positive result, since there are cases when you can return to documents when you haven't opened anything else new in between.
Ok, I see what you mean now. Tried it the way you said and left it for a good while and it did indeed lose the stuff I had typed. I can see how that would get frustrating...
Have you tried using a task manager and telling it to keep QuickOffice alive (i.e. for the system to never kill it)? Although this will probably eat your battery, so I guess only do this if you really need it. I doubt there's a way to turn the functionality off entirely, as it's a pretty core part of making multi-tasking work on low power consumption devices.
Even with my devices rooted, no task manager I have ever seen or tried has successfully been able to override the core Android system to keep-alive any app that I've specified. These utilities seem only to be able to affect their OWN task-closing habits or aggressiveness levels, but not to prevent the OS from doing its own thing separate from their internal settings.
Not to get side-tracked into an OS comparison, but I have an HTC Leo HD2 running Windows Mobile 6.5, and it is able to keep a dozen applications open in the background indefinitely, without ever slowing down or draining the battery. I can leave Word Mobile, Coreplayer, Internet Explorer, Opera Mobile, Windows Messenger, and a large handful of others all open and still get a strong couple of days out of the battery. Surely if an older OS like WinMo (and even WebOS and Symbian) can do this, Android should be capable of it too. For this very reason unfortunately, I have had to stick to Android 2.1 or WM devices as I need my apps to stay open until I decide to close them. I am always hoping though that a new 2.3 or 2.4 device will come along that allows disabling of this functionality by the user.
paleozord said:
Even with my devices rooted, no task manager I have ever seen or tried has successfully been able to override the core Android system to keep-alive any app that I've specified. These utilities seem only to be able to affect their OWN task-closing habits or aggressiveness levels, but not to prevent the OS from doing its own thing separate from their internal settings.
Not to get side-tracked into an OS comparison, but I have an HTC Leo HD2 running Windows Mobile 6.5, and it is able to keep a dozen applications open in the background indefinitely, without ever slowing down or draining the battery. I can leave Word Mobile, Coreplayer, Internet Explorer, Opera Mobile, Windows Messenger, and a large handful of others all open and still get a strong couple of days out of the battery. Surely if an older OS like WinMo (and even WebOS and Symbian) can do this, Android should be capable of it too. For this very reason unfortunately, I have had to stick to Android 2.1 or WM devices as I need my apps to stay open until I decide to close them. I am always hoping though that a new 2.3 or 2.4 device will come along that allows disabling of this functionality by the user.
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The keep persitant value was depreciated from android alltogether in 2.3. However, if cm7 can be set to keep alive the launcher and the messenger app, then it stands to say there is still a way around this.
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This issue actually started before I updated to 4.4.4. I am currently on 5.02.
I have the WiFi version of the 2012 Nexus 7. I am running the stock Rom, and am rooted (using Wug).
I have several issues with this tablet, but by far the worst is it runs VERY slowly, sometimes taking 15-20 seconds or more to respond to my input.
I have tried doing a factory reset. The problem with that is that the tablet responded better for a day or so, but as soon as I set up my account it began downloading all my apps, making it impossible to determine whether one or more of them is responsible.
I have tried going into developer Options and checking the "Don't keep activities" option. That had no effect.
It's especially maddening when I'm trying to view web pages (using Chrome) and a page takes f o r e v e r to load. Then all those javascript ads that pop up just as the page finally loads (I tried deselecting that as well, but then I can't view slide shows, videos, and user comments on web sites).
It's also fun to click on a link, only to have the page jump right at that instant, resulting in the click hitting an unintended link!
At this point I am out of ideas, other than buying a different tablet, which I can't do right now due to financial reasons.
So my questions:
How do I troubleshoot the speed/lag issue?
How do I prevent my apps automatically installing themselves after a factory reset so I can install them one by one in an attempt to determine whether it's one or two apps causing this?
Is there a pop up blocker available for Chrome (or an alternate browser) to both block, or allow on a case by case basis those dang Javascript ads?
Thanks everyone.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Free mobile app
leebo said:
How do I troubleshoot the speed/lag issue?
How do I prevent my apps automatically installing themselves after a factory reset so I can install them one by one in an attempt to determine whether it's one or two apps causing this?
Is there a pop up blocker available for Chrome (or an alternate browser) to both block, or allow on a case by case basis those dang Javascript ads?
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2 of these are easy, the other may take more work.
To prevent the apps from automatically reinstalling, open the play store as soon as the tablet boots up, go to my apps > installed, and click Stop. Then go to Settings in play store, and change auto-update apps option to "Do not update".
There's many adblockers out there, if you're rooted then you shouldn't have a problem installing them. I use AdAway and it works fine, Adblock plus is also popular. Just download the .apk for one you want to use and install it, run the app, then reboot, profit.
As for lag, though it's possible you have an app causing you some issues, this older device is also pretty well known for having a big problem with declining i/o performance over time, and this is more likely the culprit. But any apps that constantly run in the background can exaggerate this further, especially since we also only have 1GB of RAM on this device.
As you mentioned, a factory reset can sometimes help with degrading performance, but it will just degrade over time again through regular use (or as soon as a bunch of apps are immediately restored). This can sometimes be mitigated to a point by using fstrim, but this is not the final solution for everyone.
For me, converting to F2FS format helped with this a lot, it actually felt faster than when it was brand new initially. But it takes some extra work to make the conversion, especially the first time (you have to format your partitions, losing all data in the process, so EVERYTHING you want to keep has to first be backed up elsewhere then restored after conversion). You'll also need to install an F2FS compatible kernel or ROM. Do your research before jumping in if you go this route, and backup your data!
Thanks Prismatic.
I've seen a few posts from people complaining about the slowness of the OG Nexus. Since hardware like cpu's and Ram don't actually slow down (to my knowledge at least), I assume it's usually due to the larger size of newer apps? Like a Windows thing where a version seemingly becomes slower after several years because hardware requirements get more demanding?
But has Chrome for Android really gotten that much larger over these years to cause our little tablets to slow so much? I'm almost at the point where I use my phone (HTC One) more than my tablet for looking things up and browsing.
As far as changing file systems, I'll have to look into whether the community overwhelmingly agrees that the speed gain is worth such a drastic measure. Thanks for the input.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Free mobile app
Chrome has been a problem (along with Facebook) for my 2012 for a long time. When I did the 5.0.2 upgrade I did a factory reset afterwards about did not let it reinstall apps. I installed some fresh from the Play Store that were essential (none that run continuously) one by one. I replaced Chrome as the default with UC Browser which has Facebook Fast integrated (does FB notifications running in background) and all was like new. The only defect is that you don't have a "share to FB" in other apps. Haven't tried FB Messenger yet either. Beside the system/Google and cloud apps running in the background the major hits are Amazon Kindle and my password manager (50 and 35 MB). UCB (w/FF) are only 7.3 MB. Leaves about 500 free ram.
---------- Post added at 08:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:01 PM ----------
BTW I only keep about a half dozen apps in "Recent Apps" and clear some out when it starts to lag a bit. The 2012 is not up to L's multitasking as L puts each tab or instance of an app there. Open a bunch of tabs in Chrome and you'll see what I mean.
I may try that myself. I already uninstalled FB (I've been suspecting it was a resource hog for a long time now).
I've been out of the loop for over a year though, what is "L"?
Sent from my HTC One using XDA Free mobile app
Let me guess: 16GB version? Those models used really crappy emmc that had a flash firmware bug where IO would get really slow once you hit 2-3 GB free space left on the device. If you're in that position, try freeing up space until you have 3-4GB free. It'll probably speed up again.
rtiangha said:
Let me guess: 16GB version? Those models used really crappy emmc that had a flash firmware bug where IO would get really slow once you hit 2-3 GB free space left on the device. If you're in that position, try freeing up space until you have 3-4GB free. It'll probably speed up again.
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You are correct that I have the 16Gb version, but under storage it currently says, 8.5Gb free.
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Encrypted? If so, it wouldn't matter how much space you have free because as soon as the full-disk encryption operation completed, the internal map in the flash controller that keeps track of free blocks would think that there was no space left on the device (even though the OS and the file system would obviously report otherwise) and the only way to reset it once it gets to that point would be to reformat the file system (ex. Factory reset) which forces the flash controller to clear its internal map and start from scratch.
Either way, if your tablet is not encrypted and you're rooted, you could try to download the LagFix program from the Play Store and have it run fstrim, which would sync up the internal map of the flash controller with the current locations of free blocks of flash memory so the device doesn't keep slowing down trying to manually probe for free blocks every single damn time it needs to do a write operation. You may have to do it every once in a while as that internal map slowly fills up again though (the pro version lets you set a schedule). Theoretically, from Android 4.3 and onward, it's built into the OS and the the OS is supposed to be able to do it automatically based on certain conditions (ex. Idle for a certain amount of time, plugged in or 80%+ battery on a certain schedule), but I found that sometimes it needed to be done more often and it's always nice to be able to run the command manually if needed, although to be blunt, there's no reason why the end user should have to resort to this in the first place. That said, I don't know if LagFix will work on Lollipop (never tried; no longer have a rooted 16gb N7 due to a replacement logic board but a busted USB port so I can't unlock my bootloader to re-root the new board) and the program looks like it hasn't been updated since 2013. One way to find out, though and that'd be to try it.
Switching to F2FS as the file system rather than ext4 might help as well (I really wish I could re-root my device to try it for myself). The speed increases over other file systems when using it on flash memory come from letting the flash controller deal with the disk I/O rather than having the OS schedule things. When you look at the bug and what causes it, it could be the communication between the OS and the flash controller that's the culprit. So using a file system that cuts out the middle man and makes the controller deal with scheduling all the I/O might mitigate the problem (after all, the flash controller works fine when there's lots of free space, it's only when it fills up to less than 3gb of space that the flash controller's algorithm to sync what the file system advertises as free blocks with its own internal map starts to screw up).
I am not encrypted. I will try this LagFix app and report back, hopefully in next day or two. Do you recommend another factory reset first? Is been about three months.
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If you want, although I'd try LagFix first to see if that's all you need. If you do go through the wipe, run LagFix every so often to sync things up (assuming it works for you or on Lollipop in the first place).
OK, lagfix does NOT work on lollipop. It gives an error. When I can find the time maybe I'll try to convert to F2FS. Or else when I can find the money, try a new tablet.
Sent from a mobile device.
Question: When you wiped the device previously, how did you do it? If you're using TWRP and use the Advanced options under format to manually wipe /data and internal storage, it'll just use the rm command to delete the files which won't reset the controller's internal map. You need to use the factory wipe option, which will use the mkfs.ext4 commamnd to format the partition (which is what you want). If you've been doing it the wrong way, then that might explain why you're still getting the lag despite having a lot of space still free.
Also, the built-in trim functionality (supposedly) only triggers when the tablet is plugged in or at 70 or 80% battery *and* has been idle for 2-3 hours so if you use the tablet a lot or keep it powered off when not in use, there's a chance that the automated task won't run (and since LagFix doesn't work in Lollipop until the Dev updates it to be compatible, then there's currently no way to manually trigger it). So if you haven't already, try leaving it in powered on and plugged into the wall outlet overnight while you sleep and see if it's better in the morning. Might be worth a shot if all else fails.
Thanks. Yeah, I always leave it plugged in over night to make sure it's ready the next day.
I probably did do a factory wipe, but I'm not certain. Guess I'll try that again eventually.
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Cool. Well, if all else fails, there's one last trick to try, which is to zero fill all the empty spaces on the drive to tell the controller that the empty space is indeed empty when it hits the "start probing the file system for empty blocks to perform the write operation" part of its I/O algorithm. You can do that yourself on the command line by using dd to create a giant empty file until the drive is filled up, syncing the file buffers and then deleting the empty file, and then sync the file buffers one last time. There's also an app that can do it automatically, which is just a GUI that calls dd, rm, sync, rm and sync in the background. I forget the name, but it's in the store and I think it has "secure" as part of its name.
I had moderate success with that method as things would speed up again once done, but would slow up again over time as the drive was used. Formatting the partition is preferable because it saves on write operations and thus, wear and tear on the flash drive but the downside is that you lose all your data. And zero-fill was the preferred method outside of re-formatting the partition until someone figured out the fstrim trick. You might be able to run the fstrim command from the command line if you're rooted since LagFix doesn't work anymore on Lollipop, but I forgot what the command line arguments are. Google could probably help with that.
So still a few more things to try before giving up. But I wonder if F2FS would work better. Let us know if you ultimately go that route.
You can run the trim commands from terminal. But I found increasing the minimum clock helped.
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leebo said:
This issue actually started before I updated to 4.4.4. I am currently on 5.02.
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WOW same here, I updated from kitkat to 5.02 today and my god, this is TERRIBLE!!!
I keep rebooting in hope that SOMETHING will be better. I know this is an old tablet but I have a good mind to call Google tech support and complain about this abysmal ROM.
I did not do a wipe, just upgraded as you'd imagine that would be all one needs to do, it is a factory upgrade after all...
Some apps take forever to boot and then are inoperable because they can take a minute to respond to a touch (facebook seems the worst)
Others are very laggy but useable (like a cheap phone from 5 years ago).
I guess I have to try a factory reset/wipe.
So just to update: I have been wiping the cache partition about every five days. It lasts about two to three days. I plan on waiting until I have money to get a different tablet before getting a different ROM, or converting to the newer file system (though that will probably be some time from now). In its current condition I can't even give this thing away!
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
Same deal here. When new the Nexus 7 performs great. I have a 2012 8 gb version primarily for platform testing. The interface is so slow now I've given up and just use my phone. The keyboard takes forever to show up. When you first load an app it takes forever and switching between apps takes just as long. The last Nexus and Asus mobile device I will buy for a good while. At least I can still use it to test an app and know that the app will run on a crappy performing device.
Nexus 7 2012 (8gb)
Android 5.1.1
I've done factory resets and it doesn't really help, maybe for a few minutes and then back to the slow clunker. Even after the reset the keyboard is slow as snot to show up.
Just to update, I ended up using Wug's Nexus Root Toolkit to push 5.1 to my Nexus, then I did a factory reset. It had already downloaded 5.1 from Google, but I was desperate.
I had already given up and bought a Samsung Galaxy S 8.1 by then. It's now much faster. Because I bought the Samsung, I'm not using the Nexus very much, so I can't say for certain I cured it. It's worth a try however.
Signature edited to appease the OCD's
I would suggest installing Chroma 22/6/2015. It's very good since Android 5.1.1 fixes some memory leaks over 5.0.2 ^^ It runs perfectly P.S I wanted to sell or blow up my nexus with other roms so it's worth giving it a try ^^ I'd suggest wiping internal storage too after installation so you have a fresher feel ^^
Plz do it :3 You'll not regret it! The UI is pretty coolio too!