Why Root? - Xperia Play General

So I am thinking about rooting my r800at with SuperOneClick but I was just wondering. Why root? What are the benefits of it and what can I do if I root?

Remove bloat apps. Change settings that require root such as setInstallLocation. Basically have more control of your device.
Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk

You can also backup your apps and data and restore them whenever you want. Keep older versions of apps and stuff!
Sent from my R800i using XDA

There's no point rooting now as Ice Cream Sandwich is coming out. You can freeze apps in ICS so no need rooting

sufy1000 said:
There's no point rooting now as Ice Cream Sandwich is coming out. You can freeze apps in ICS so no need rooting
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldnt say theres no point. Rooting doesnt just allow you to freeze apps

Personally, the app Link2SD alone is more than enough reason to root for me. Not to mention being able to get a custom boot animation, add the bravia engine, get rid of bloatware, and the list could go on and on.
I would use the flashtool from THIS thread and use the zergRush method to root your phone in flashtool's menu. I can confirm this works perfectly.

Imagine that you have a broom. It's yours, so if you use it as a lever for example, it's nobody's business but yours, and only you bear the responsibility if your use of it causes harm to yourself or somebody else. It's pretty much the same situation with your computer. It's yours, so you can use it for any purpose that computers can be used for. That it performs better or worse is nobody's business but yours: if you use a super duper gaming computer for checking Facebook or a netbook as a workstation it's up to you, and again, you bear the responsibilities of those uses. And again, if you want to wipe the software inside that computer and use other software, or program your own and use it, it's up to you. You have administrator rights in your own computer, which in Unix terms is called "root access".
That is not true in smartphones (which are computers, remember). They come capped by default. You don't have administrator rights by default. You bear the same responsibilities as in the previous caseS, but your rights are limited. And that's not sane. "Rooting" only returns what's yours to you. It restores sanity to the order of things, and delivers you from company lock-ins. Companies now are trying to go against people because they try to get to own their smartphones by restricting functions if they happen to have rooted phones. Curiously enough, no one seems to object against all those computers with the same administrator rights out there.
I don't see any "advantage" that I should mention, even if people can tell you different things like removing bloatware our whatever. It's much simpler: it's the matter of making what you have paid for truly yours.
XPlay-Swype

Logseman said:
Imagine that you have a broom. It's yours, so if you use it as a lever for example, it's nobody's business but yours, and only you bear the responsibility if your use of it causes harm to yourself or somebody else. It's pretty much the same situation with your computer. It's yours, so you can use it for any purpose that computers can be used for. That it performs better or worse is nobody's business but yours: if you use a super duper gaming computer for checking Facebook or a netbook as a workstation it's up to you, and again, you bear the responsibilities of those uses. And again, if you want to wipe the software inside that computer and use other software, or program your own and use it, it's up to you. You have administrator rights in your own computer, which in Unix terms is called "root access".
That is not true in smartphones (which are computers, remember). They come capped by default. You don't have administrator rights by default. You bear the same responsibilities as in the previous caseS, but your rights are limited. And that's not sane. "Rooting" only returns what's yours to you. It restores sanity to the order of things, and delivers you from company lock-ins. Companies now are trying to go against people because they try to get to own their smartphones by restricting functions if they happen to have rooted phones. Curiously enough, no one seems to object against all those computers with the same administrator rights out there.
I don't see any "advantage" that I should mention, even if people can tell you different things like removing bloatware our whatever. It's much simpler: it's the matter of making what you have paid for truly yours.
XPlay-Swype
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said. That about sums it all up.

Root is like going from a limited account with parental controls, to administrator in Windows.
Also, the adfree app is nice.

Related

Virus

Ok so I have another noob question. Do I need some kind of firewall and antivirus program on my tab? I mean I spent a ton protecting my laptops and desktops, so is the tab already somehow pretty well protected or do I need something?
And if so what do you recomend
Sent from my SCH-I800 using XDA App
Get Lookout from market, it's free. Thats what I use as a antivirus program. It has some other extra features with it too.
By default Android does not accept connections from the outside unless you tell it to.
So for a firewall, to stop applications from accessing the internet (wifi or 3G) you can try Droidwall. It doesn't work with ClockWorkMod though because of the older version of busybox built in to it. So if you are not using ClockWork for your recovery, it should work.
There are very few (only heard of one so far) viruses that have hit smartphones as of yet. But it is good to be prepared.
you do NOT need an antivirus for an android device as it is present... All those reports you see of viruses on android are done by the company MAKING the antivirus software
drksilenc said:
you do NOT need an antivirus for an android device as it is present... All those reports you see of viruses on android are done by the company MAKING the antivirus software
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean it is present? I didn't know android came with antivirus software. Yes, I have heard teh argument that antivirus software company are the ones making the viruses. But the fact is ( whatever the truth is) if you get hit with one, its still a pain. Since its free for now, go for it.
PS. Viruses has been on a decline though for computers and none made for smartphones yet. Lol maybe symanctec is had to cut cost and got rid of their programmers. I know Mcafee just got sold to Intel. Or maybe they are all waiting for the right time to release them when everyone's guard is down. Do I smell conspiracy Either eay, if the stuff on your phone is important, protect it.
You don't need one.
bpt888, drksilenc didn't mean the antivirus app makers were making viruses, he said that they were the only ones reporting on them.
What has been reported so far have not actually been viruses. It seems you have fallen into the trap those who make apps like lookout want people to fall into.
They report on things like, apps requesting device id's etc. You can see that an app will do this by looking at the permissions it asks for. eg, no need for an "antivirus" app.
If you actually read the "virus" reports from these companies, you'll see nothing is needed.
There are no viruses on Android.
None
Zero
Nil
Android anti-virus programs are a worthless waste. Actually less than worthless, as these useless programs just slow down your system for no benefit.
Android isn't Windows, it doesn't have holes the hackers can easily drive through.
If you concerned about your privacy install firewall (Droidwall for example) and tune its setting to block wallpaper or some other apps connecting to somebody you don't know.
Sometimes applications request internet access without good reason raising doubts in their purpose.
You will need to obtain root privileges to run firewall. Ironically this might lower your Tab protection against network intrusion. However, none of this is known threat unless you unknowingly install trojan and any other malware.
No virus software needed. Seriously it is a waste of time.
Sent from my SCH-I800 using XDA App
Geletis said:
Android isn't Windows, it doesn't have holes the hackers can easily drive through.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but this is just FUD.
Windows is far more secure than most people give it credit for - it's just that it is the target for 99% of all attacks because it is so ubiquitous.
If and when Linux achieves some sort of relevance on the average consumer desktop, I'd expect to see a lot more attacks targeted its way and a corresponding increase in security issues.
Regards,
Dave
foxmeister said:
Sorry, but this is just FUD.
Windows is far more secure than most people give it credit for - it's just that it is the target for 99% of all attacks because it is so ubiquitous.
If and when Linux achieves some sort of relevance on the average consumer desktop, I'd expect to see a lot more attacks targeted its way and a corresponding increase in security issues.
Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, but surely the way that Linux (and Android) is made makes it inherently more secure? Without root access there's not much that can be done to truly compromise a Linux system, and Android sandboxes everything
TheGrammarFreak said:
I agree, but surely the way that Linux (and Android) is made makes it inherently more secure? Without root access there's not much that can be done to truly compromise a Linux system, and Android sandboxes everything
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree there's a certain degree of additional security provided by sandboxing, but we've already seen APKs (e.g. Z4Root) that can gain root access, so it's not infallible. It is one of the reasons that I use Chrome on all platforms - if you check out Pwn2Own, Chrome has yet to fail, and that it mostly due to sandboxing - however, it is not a panacea!
There is definitely an element of "security through obscurity" around non-Windows OS's. Note the use of the word "element" - I'm not saying that Linux or any other OS are insecure, just that they are attacked less than Windows.
The point is that modern Windows is far more secure than most people realise - any OS given the same amount of attention by the "bad guys" in comparison to others. Vulnerabilities exist in all OS's and will continue to found and exploited.
I'm in full agreement that currently the real security threats on Android are down to users not paying enough attention to the permissions that an app requests when it is installed, but this will likely change as Android gains popularity.
I do pay attention to the apps I install, so I personally don't feel the need for any kind of security suite on Android at present.
Regards,
Dave
Cool, thanks for your thoughts.
Sent from my Galaxy Tab

just seen an tv advert selling Norton antivirus for android

Are you kidding me? 14 quid from pcworld! Linux needs an antivirus?!!!?
maybe corprate and government issued android phones need it, but if you have common sense and actually READ the permissions you are giving to an app (and look at the reviews, just to be sure) you should know what is or isn't "poisoning" your system. By "poison", I mean that there are not "viruses" on android, but, rather, apps which are meant to be malicious in nature by acting very similar to how trojans or malware work. Normally, these malware apps aren't very hard to remove yourself (or even discover) especially with root access which is why android users shouldn't concern themselves THAT much with antivirus measures and such.
There's a bit of malware out and about on Android. Monitoring permissions is one thing, but then there are apps that can piggyback on another app's permissions, making it hard to be sure of an app's trustworthiness every time.
There's also the frustrating reality that enthusiasts, like those on XDA, often think they're smart enough (simply by virtue of knowing what kernel means) to be above the risk of malware. These are often the same people who dive headfirst into a user's brand new first ROM the first 10 minutes it's out, and ROMs don't ask for permissions.
Hackers are much more likely to take huge risks installing mystery code based purely on a presumed trust in the XDA 'fraternity'.
Then there are regular apps on the market for, like, an sms widget, that will naturally ask for permissions to read/send texts, access contacts, etc, and those permissions unlock any number of invisible behaviors that may not be caught for weeks. *shrug*
So yeah, govt and corp people distributing handsets to employees will use AV software, as will many regular users, because it's easier and more convenient (and cheaper, in the case of employees) that training yourself or someone else to comprehend permissions and good awareness.
Though there will always be toddlers in the computing community who rant and rage about how people should fully understand what a computer does before being allowed to use it...but that childish RTFM attitude is what keeps Linux on fewer home PCs than Microsoft Bob has been on.

[Q] Do you lose anything by rooting?

I'm about to root my Nexus 10. Will I lose anything? Such as some Google Apps refusing to work like paid for movies or books or anything if it detects it's running on a rooted device?
Or do all Google and other apps still work fine?
Anything to watch out for? I'm considering Cyanogen, and will root with Mskip's tool.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2001868
Everything will work fine. All that I have ever found not working is my employer's software developed only for the employees. No mass produced app will give you any trouble.
Enjoy CM10!
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.
DroidBois said:
I'm about to root my Nexus 10. Will I lose anything? Such as some Google Apps refusing to work like paid for movies or books or anything if it detects it's running on a rooted device?
Or do all Google and other apps still work fine?
Anything to watch out for? I'm considering Cyanogen, and will root with Mskip's tool.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2001868
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You lose everything, including your home and first-born child.
In all seriousness, just about everything will work fine if you only root. Some custom ROMs do introduce incompatibility problems, but it's usually on a pretty small scale (an app here or there might not work if your ROM/kernel choice tweaks how the device handles graphics, for example). By and large, you should be fine, but be careful of certain content apps that will refuse to play on rooted devices.
SacGuru said:
Everything will work fine. All that I have ever found not working is my employer's software developed only for the employees. No mass produced app will give you any trouble.
Enjoy CM10!
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Come now, you know that's not entirely true. Many stuck-up content providers won't support rooted devices, and you'll also get the standard "unsupported device" claim if you're rooted or have an unlocked bootloader from apps like Google Wallet. By and large though, OP, you should be fine.
Rirere said:
You lose everything, including your home and first-born child.
In all seriousness, just about everything will work fine if you only root. Some custom ROMs do introduce incompatibility problems, but it's usually on a pretty small scale (an app here or there might not work if your ROM/kernel choice tweaks how the device handles graphics, for example). By and large, you should be fine, but be careful of certain content apps that will refuse to play on rooted devices.
Come now, you know that's not entirely true. Many stuck-up content providers won't support rooted devices, and you'll also get the standard "unsupported device" claim if you're rooted or have an unlocked bootloader from apps like Google Wallet. By and large though, OP, you should be fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right, but I was responding to what the OP had asked. Movies from play will work just fine afaik. And yes, there would be some app developers who won't support modified devices (I've heard of some trouble with the Sky tv app), but then again on some devices there are ways to temporarily unroot to allow such apps to run.
Again, how the device handles graphics can be modified as well. I had trouble with the Naked Browser before I modified the dpi using an xposed framework module.
In simple terms, so as to not confuse things, I would say that the huge majority of apps would give him no problems, and he would be missing out a lot if he refuses to root his device in the fear of one or two apps not working.
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.
SacGuru said:
You are right, but I was responding to what the OP had asked. Movies from play will work just fine afaik. And yes, there would be some app developers who won't support modified devices (I've heard of some trouble with the Sky tv app), but then again on some devices there are ways to temporarily unroot to allow such apps to run.
Again, how the device handles graphics can be modified as well. I had trouble with the Naked Browser before I modified the dpi using an xposed framework module.
In simple terms, so as to not confuse things, I would say that the huge majority of apps would give him no problems, and he would be missing out a lot if he refuses to root his device in the fear of one or two apps not working.
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's a fine line between "not confus[ing] things" though and glossing over very real issues. It's significantly better for a new user to go into rooting aware of potential problems than rush in and get screwed on something because they expected rooting to be a land of sunshine, rainbows, and daisies, and found it was actually one that also had blood and tears.
That's especially true when you start getting into things like XPosed modules, which, while simple are much more than a new user should really have to contend with. Full stock+rooted is probably the safest introduction because it's so comparatively trivial to revert if you blow yourself up.
Rirere said:
There's a fine line between "not confus[ing] things" though and glossing over very real issues. It's significantly better for a new user to go into rooting aware of potential problems than rush in and get screwed on something because they expected rooting to be a land of sunshine, rainbows, and daisies, and found it was actually one that also had blood and tears.
That's especially true when you start getting into things like XPosed modules, which, while simple are much more than a new user should really have to contend with. Full stock+rooted is probably the safest introduction because it's so comparatively trivial to revert if you blow yourself up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know people who went on to custom roms the day they rooted their phones. I myself used one within a fortnight of using my first android device. Rooting isn't exactly rocket science.
I would really like to know what percentage of apps you believe do not work on custom roms/rooted phones out of all apps in the world. Impossible though it might be to have an exact number, I have a slight suspicion you have a larger-than-what-could-be-true figure in your head. While at it, do mention some of the blood and tears you have had while using your device.
In all the time I have been using android devices, I have only once encountered an app which I couldn't run on my device, and I believe that was purely due to lack of effort on my part.
Again, many people turn on to modifying their devices only because they want to use a custom rom, as the OP already wants to. I have never seen a comment by an user who regrets rooting his device as an app isn't working. I have seen numerous from users who are disappointed with the capabilities of their unrooted devices.
Had you understood my second comment, you would have realized that not only had I agreed with what you had said, I had also, unlike you, actually mentioned a couple of apps which might have problems on a rooted device. Glossing over issues might be wrong, but complicating simple questions is worse, in my opinion.
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.
SacGuru said:
I know people who went on to custom roms the day they rooted their phones. I myself used one within a fortnight of using my first android device. Rooting isn't exactly rocket science.
I would really like to know what percentage of apps you believe do not work on custom roms/rooted phones out of all apps in the world. Impossible though it might be to have an exact number, I have a slight suspicion you have a larger-than-what-could-be-true figure in your head. While at it, do mention some of the blood and tears you have had while using your device.
In all the time I have been using android devices, I have only once encountered an app which I couldn't run on my device, and I believe that was purely due to lack of effort on my part.
Again, many people turn on to modifying their devices only because they want to use a custom rom, as the OP already wants to. I have never seen a comment by an user who regrets rooting his device as an app isn't working. I have seen numerous from users who are disappointed with the capabilities of their unrooted devices.
Had you understood my second comment, you would have realized that not only had I agreed with what you had said, I had also, unlike you, actually mentioned a couple of apps which might have problems on a rooted device. Glossing over issues might be wrong, but complicating simple questions is worse, in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're starting to get a little touchy there.
I've been rooted and flashing ROMs for several years now, so I'm hardly new to the field. Nor do I think that there's even a large portion of apps out there that have trouble on rooted devices-- because that is not the point. From an end-user perspective, it only takes the loss of one app or a misbehaving one to ruin the experience. A great day-to-day example is Foldersync-- while the app "runs" correctly, if it detects you have root privileges it will spam superuser requests to perform a better sync. If you deny the request, your sync may fail, and if you accept it, the app potentially causes a wakelock. Random behavior can be just as bad as an outright crash.
OP's interest with ROMs is also a point of greater concern than just root. You really don't have to look too far to see people having problems, especially if you every venture outside of Nexus-land. The last hulabaloo I saw over this was back in the HTC One forums because a popular AOSP ROM had a misconfigured graphics driver that caused a few games to fall over and die.
As far as blood, sweat, and tears, try a bootlooping Galaxy Player 4.0 with a wiped /efs that was essentially softbricked for about two months before I had a free six or seven hours to manually dd everything back into place. I've also had my share of bootloops on Nexus devices while experimenting, although with a little fastboot or adb knowledge it's not hard to get out of them.
I have seen plenty of people regret their root or flash. I don't think you quite remember how bad the first bootloop or problem can be if you have never messed with this stuff before. Fastboot and adb are pretty easy to learn to use, but when you're first starting and every black screen seems like the death knell, it's a different matter altogether. Yes, I saw your post, and I understood, but it's a lot better to play it safe, especially at first, then charge ahead unaware of the consequences. Don't tell me you haven't seen people whining in countless ROM threads because they've done something stupid, usually because they didn't know not to.
Bottom line: better to play it safe and know than not. The only point I made up top was that you have to be 100% aware that you're playing with fire before you get burned. That doesn't mean fire isn't useful or that it's scary, but it does mean you have to be careful.
Edit
SacGuru said:
The whole point of my second post was that there are alternatives - to roms, to mods, to apps, to hardware limitations. The availability of these alternatives is amongst the prime reasons we love android, you and I.
The Op is not asking us about Softbricks/bootlooping devices, or black screens. He is asking only about apps. As I said before, I haven't yet seen a comment from someone who wants to unroot his device just because a particular app does not work. It might be possible that with your experience you might have seen one or two, but as you mention yourselves, people sometimes tend to be stupid.
It's unfortunate that I sounded touchy to you. My only answer to the Op still remains that it would be highly unlikely for him to have trouble with apps, even though there could be apps which do not work on modded phones (as I did mention in my very first comment).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we're reading the comment a little differently. This is why I brought up what I did.
I'm about to root my Nexus 10. Will I lose anything? Such as some Google Apps refusing to work like paid for movies or books or anything if it detects it's running on a rooted device?
Or do all Google and other apps still work fine?
Anything to watch out for? I'm considering Cyanogen, and will root with Mskip's tool.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Based on the questions being asked, I think it's reasonable to assume OP doesn't know anything about rooting or ROMs, so I'm being a little more liberal in looking at this comment than I would be otherwise. As such, I'd rather err on giving them information a little outside the original scope than too little.
Rirere said:
You're starting to get a little touchy there.
I've been rooted and flashing ROMs for several years now, so I'm hardly new to the field. Nor do I think that there's even a large portion of apps out there that have trouble on rooted devices-- because that is not the point. From an end-user perspective, it only takes the loss of one app or a misbehaving one to ruin the experience. A great day-to-day example is Foldersync-- while the app "runs" correctly, if it detects you have root privileges it will spam superuser requests to perform a better sync. If you deny the request, your sync may fail, and if you accept it, the app potentially causes a wakelock. Random behavior can be just as bad as an outright crash.
OP's interest with ROMs is also a point of greater concern than just root. You really don't have to look too far to see people having problems, especially if you every venture outside of Nexus-land. The last hulabaloo I saw over this was back in the HTC One forums because a popular AOSP ROM had a misconfigured graphics driver that caused a few games to fall over and die.
As far as blood, sweat, and tears, try a bootlooping Galaxy Player 4.0 with a wiped /efs that was essentially softbricked for about two months before I had a free six or seven hours to manually dd everything back into place. I've also had my share of bootloops on Nexus devices while experimenting, although with a little fastboot or adb knowledge it's not hard to get out of them.
I have seen plenty of people regret their root or flash. I don't think you quite remember how bad the first bootloop or problem can be if you have never messed with this stuff before. Fastboot and adb are pretty easy to learn to use, but when you're first starting and every black screen seems like the death knell, it's a different matter altogether. Yes, I saw your post, and I understood, but it's a lot better to play it safe, especially at first, then charge ahead unaware of the consequences. Don't tell me you haven't seen people whining in countless ROM threads because they've done something stupid, usually because they didn't know not to.
Bottom line: better to play it safe and know than not. The only point I made up top was that you have to be 100% aware that you're playing with fire before you get burned. That doesn't mean fire isn't useful or that it's scary, but it does mean you have to be careful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The whole point of my second post was that there are alternatives - to roms, to mods, to apps, to hardware limitations. The availability of these alternatives is amongst the prime reasons we love android, you and I.
The Op is not asking us about Softbricks/bootlooping devices, or black screens. He is asking only about apps. As I said before, I haven't yet seen a comment from someone who wants to unroot his device just because a particular app does not work. It might be possible that with your experience you might have seen one or two, but as you mention yourselves, people sometimes tend to be stupid.
It's unfortunate that I sounded touchy to you. My only answer to the Op still remains that it would be highly unlikely for him to have trouble with apps, even though there could be apps which do not work on modded phones (as I did mention in my very first comment). Somehow your answer seemed pretty similar to mine ('just about everything would be fine'), so I just wondered why you had to mention to me problems with apps like the google wallet which are easily fixed.
By now, I am sure both of us understand what the other is talking about. Also, the op has enough info to take a decision on his own. My only qualm is that the inclusion of some seemingly complex terminology might turn him off rooting his device
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.
Wow... I just love you guys so much... So much detailed analysis here..
I've rooted all my devices in the past and generally not had any issues if I use a mature solid tool and ROM, I've only had issues with more 'pioneering' ROM's and tools, but for good reason. So I try to stick to the stable well tested mature varieties like Cyanogen and well supported tools, generally where the developer gets some payment (as reward encourages good development).
I'm more concerned with anything like content apps so Google Books / Magazines / Movies / Zinio etc or any other apps that may kick a stink about running on a rooted device?
Spotify seems fine on a rooted device so far though (Nexus 4).
It may not be an issue for some, but I am one of the (possibly rare?) people who PAY for content - specifically reading material. And I have an extensive library so I don't want to lose that.
I'm not so concerned on the technical front as the Nexus should be fairly well community supported and understood mainstream devices and likely to have stable development and mature community support.
I have the mskip tool ready to go so I'm fine with that.
It's not a debate about rooting vs not. I always root because simple things like having a quick tile for WLAN AP can make a HUGE difference through the day as opposed to this retarded idea that people ENJOY diving deep through menu layers for simple on / off functions - it drives me completely and utterly insane over the course of a day. So I like to set up and streamline my device how I need it, and even have accurate time with root tools like ClockSync, or better security support to lock out spyware crap like FaceSpy and so on (if root helps) and also, being able to properly back up my phone.
Or employer mandated junk like Afaria that some companies mandate for BYOD-to-work devices, not that I have any idea what it's for as opposed to a trusted workable solution like Google Apps (I guess everyone has to make their own thing to put their own buggy bloated stamp on everything). Will that mandated junk still work?
The biggest problem I have still is this MTP *CRAP* which which I believe you can't work around? That's another story and Google should be shot for this.
But root vs not has little to do with that. I guess we're stuck with this MTP crap no matter what we do (thanks Google, you tools).
Thanks for the advice here though.
DroidBois said:
Wow... I just love you guys so much... So much detailed analysis here..
I've rooted all my devices in the past and generally not had any issues if I use a mature solid tool and ROM, I've only had issues with more 'pioneering' ROM's and tools, but for good reason. So I try to stick to the stable well tested mature varieties like Cyanogen and well supported tools, generally where the developer gets some payment (as reward encourages good development).
I'm more concerned with anything like content apps so Google Books / Magazines / Movies / Zinio etc or any other apps that may kick a stink about running on a rooted device?
Spotify seems fine on a rooted device so far though (Nexus 4).
It may not be an issue for some, but I am one of the (possibly rare?) people who PAY for content - specifically reading material. And I have an extensive library so I don't want to lose that.
I'm not so concerned on the technical front as the Nexus should be fairly well community supported and understood mainstream devices and likely to have stable development and mature community support.
I have the mskip tool ready to go so I'm fine with that.
It's not a debate about rooting vs not. I always root because simple things like having a quick tile for WLAN AP can make a HUGE difference through the day as opposed to this retarded idea that people ENJOY diving deep through menu layers for simple on / off functions - it drives me completely and utterly insane over the course of a day. So I like to set up and streamline my device how I need it, and even have accurate time with root tools like ClockSync, or better security support to lock out spyware crap like FaceSpy and so on (if root helps) and also, being able to properly back up my phone.
Or employer mandated junk like Afaria that some companies mandate for BYOD-to-work devices, not that I have any idea what it's for as opposed to a trusted workable solution like Google Apps (I guess everyone has to make their own thing to put their own buggy bloated stamp on everything). Will that mandated junk still work?
The biggest problem I have still is this MTP *CRAP* which which I believe you can't work around? That's another story and Google should be shot for this.
But root vs not has little to do with that. I guess we're stuck with this MTP crap no matter what we do (thanks Google, you tools).
Thanks for the advice here though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've not had any problems with Google Play services and root, although most of my books are sideloaded after ripping DRM off of Amazon purchases (I don't really believe in the idea of a "perpetual lease"). As someone who has spent time working on that "employer junk" for corporate use, it may annoy the living **** out of you as a rooted user, but from a corporate standpoint it's actually pretty damn important.
Now, as far as MTP goes, don't quote me on this, but I remember seeing a setting in DriveDroid a while back (it's an app that lets you mount an ISO on your computer by connecting your device) that would let you change your USB connection mode to something other than MTP/PTP. I dont' remember the acronym, unfortunately, but it was a lot more in line with the way a "standard" USB device would connect (with the attendant issues of not using FUSE).

Can I get a backup that can restore my phone without resorting to rooting the phone?

Without root, can I make a backup, that will allow me to restore to a previous point in time? That means my apps and their data, and my customizations. That means NOT OTA to some pirate's server.
Thanks!
IT_Architect said:
Without root, can I make a backup, that will allow me to restore to a previous point in time? That means my apps and their data, and my customizations. That means NOT OTA to some pirate's server.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Without root, you can't backup system apps and data. You can backup user apps and data. In fact...Google will do it for you by having Google backup your app data (since Google Play already has the apps). Settings-General-Backup
Sent from my Note 3 via Tapatalk
donc113 said:
Without root, you can't backup system apps and data. You can backup user apps and data. In fact...Google will do it for you by having Google backup your app data (since Google Play already has the apps). Settings-General-Backup
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do I determine exactly which are user apps and data, and which are system apps and data? I would envision:
1. I could restore any apps and data that didn't come with the phone.
2. Not restored would be shortcuts created, screen organization, customized wall papers, custom widgets, settings for WiFi, POP, IMAP, or Exchange E-Mail accounts, SMS/MMS messages, and any changes made in the phone's Settings from factory defaults.
I would also assume that programs such as Holo and Helium leverage the same underlying technology with the option of doing it locally.
Thanks!
IT_Architect said:
How do I determine exactly which are user apps and data, and which are system apps and data? I would envision:
1. I could restore any apps and data that didn't come with the phone.
2. Not restored would be shortcuts created, screen organization, customized wall papers, custom widgets, settings for WiFi, POP, IMAP, or Exchange E-Mail accounts, SMS/MMS messages, and any changes made in the phone's Settings from factory defaults.
I would also assume that programs such as Holo and Helium leverage the same underlying technology with the option of doing it locally.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pretty much anything you can't uninstall is a system app.
To your 1 & 2 items above...yes to both.
No idea what Holo or Helium programs are.
Sent from my Note 3 via Tapatalk
So you actually have a valid reason not to root? You can install SS, do backups, etc. You can root cloak if you want. Odin back to stock if you need to.
Or you can use the slow, bloated, gimped, and otherwise poor excuse of a stock ROM for your DD. not sure why you would want that backed up anyway?
xdadevnube said:
So you actually have a valid reason not to root?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a brand new phone under warranty, support when needed, automatic OTA updates...
xdadevnube said:
You can install SS, do backups, etc. You can root cloak if you want. Odin back to stock if you need to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which leaves the KNOX counter at 0x1. There is no exploit to use in KitKat like there was in Jelly Bean and prior.
xdadevnube said:
...bloated, gimped, and otherwise poor excuse of a stock ROM for your DD. not sure why you would want that backed up anyway?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm accustomed to being able to do a bare metal restore to a previous point in time with my current phone. It has worked several times when things went bad, and I could even restore to a new phone of the same model if that were necessary. I'm trying to duplicate that as much as possible of that with Android.
Situation: I've installed two products, one called Holo, previous named Carbon, and the other called Helium. With Holo, which runs on the PC, I just did a full backup via USB 3 to my laptop. It says it can do the system apps and data too, but doesn't recommend doing it, so I didn't. I then deleted the data and applications through Application Manager. After that, I did a full restore. The apps and data were exactly like they were. Helium I'm guessing uses the same API, but is installed on the phone, and backs up to the SD card. I don't have an SD card yet, and I didn't want to use the one that Android emulates when it doesn't have one, so I haven't tested that one yet. The advantage of Helium is it allows you to select what you want to backup and restore. It doesn't allow backing up any system apps or data.
I'm currently documenting the changes I make to settings while it is all fresh in my mind, so if I do have to do a factory reset later, I can get back to where I was as painlessly as possible. I will do a factory reset tonight to prove the backups work, before I rely on Holo's restores.
Other: I've used custom ROMs in the past. I always ended up returning to the factory ROM due to fewer bugs, and compatibility issues that I encountered when installing programs that needed something the developer removed. The reason rooting Android is tempting for me, is that I'm missing the basic functionality of being able to do call recording while I'm on Bluetooth. OTOH, I can understand why Samsung will not support a phone that has been rooted.
Thanks!
Im not sure why you say that the Knox counter will be tripped. I have had my phone rooted since almost the day I got it when it was on MJE, upgraded it to NC4 after root was available and even just odined it back to stock at the beginning of this week. Screen was cracked and I got a replacement. I had to return the old one and when it got dropped in the mail, it was no longer rooted, fully stock, and a Knox counter of 0x0. This replacement phone with Kit Kat (NC4) on it was rooted withing hours of receiving it, nandroid restored to the identical setup as the phone it was replacing, and the Knox counter is, you guessed it, 0x0.
mikeyk101 said:
Im not sure why you say that the Knox counter will be tripped. I have had my phone rooted since almost the day I got it when it was on MJE, upgraded it to NC4 after root was available and even just odined it back to stock at the beginning of this week. Screen was cracked and I got a replacement. I had to return the old one and when it got dropped in the mail, it was no longer rooted, fully stock, and a Knox counter of 0x0. This replacement phone with Kit Kat (NC4) on it was rooted withing hours of receiving it, nandroid restored to the identical setup as the phone it was replacing, and the Knox counter is, you guessed it, 0x0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please tell me how to do that, or point to where I can learn how.
IT_Architect said:
Please tell me how to do that, or point to where I can learn how.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just did a chat with One Click Root, which went as follows:
ME: I just purchased a new Verizon Note 3 with the newest KitKat. I don't want to mess up the warranty or support. However, an unrooted phone cannot record calls under Bluetooth. I heard there was a problem with rooting phones with KitKat with files after some date in June. I also want to be able to unroot if necessary for update and warranty purposes. Can One Click Root accomplish these goals?
One Click Root: Warranty will be voided if you root your device and ota updates will remove the root totally. I don't actually know if warranty will be back if you unroot your device.
ME: What about KNOX?
One Click Root: Won't be affected.
ME: How much does One Click Root cost if I decide to do this?
One Click Root: We have 2 packages to choose from: $29.95 package which includes root only and $39.95 which includes rooting + removal of bloatware + 30 days free tech support.
ME: I'm guessing the $39.95 for the tech support would be worth it. The removal of bloatware might not since if I did, and unrooted it to get an OTA update, the update would fail if the bloatware were not there to be patched.
One Click Root:We need to check first if your device is rootable. May I know the exact model number and android version?
ME: OK, I'm going into settings now...
One Click Root: Great! Your device is rootable.
ME: You've helped me TONS! I will make sure I want to do this, but you can be sure here is will I come when I do. I need to learn a little more about rooting, unrooting, and being able to get it back to factory so I can get service if I need it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My question is how/where can I learn how to be able to achieve this?
mikeyk101 said:
...I have had my phone rooted since almost the day I got it when it was on MJE, upgraded it to NC4 after root was available and even just odined it back to stock at the beginning of this week. Screen was cracked and I got a replacement. I had to return the old one and when it got dropped in the mail, it was no longer rooted, fully stock, and a Knox counter of 0x0. This replacement phone with Kit Kat (NC4) on it was rooted withing hours of receiving it, nandroid restored to the identical setup as the phone it was replacing, and the Knox counter is, you guessed it, 0x0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you!
Maybe Im missing what you are asking. There are several threads on here that detail what to do. To root, use towelroot and it will cost you nothing. Then you will have to install SuperSU but make sure to use 2.13 version. This will also give you the option to disable Knox. Then install busybox and finally you can install safestrap.
mikeyk101 said:
...To root, use towelroot and it will cost you nothing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesn't it make more sense to use "One Click Root" instead since it allows unrooting?
mikeyk101 said:
Then you will have to install SuperSU but make sure to use 2.13 version. This will also give you the option to disable Knox.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will do
mikeyk101 said:
Then install busybox, and finally you can install safestrap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Got it. I will look for more threads about this. Thanks TONS!
Supersu also allows you the option to do a full unroot as well.
mikeyk101 said:
Supersu also allows you the option to do a full unroot as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Got it!
Thanks!
xdadevnube said:
So you actually have a valid reason not to root? You can install SS, do backups, etc. You can root cloak if you want. Odin back to stock if you need to. Or you can use the slow, bloated, gimped, and otherwise poor excuse of a stock ROM for your DD. not sure why you would want that backed up anyway?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not there yet, but I'm drifting closer to your way of thinking. However, from what I read, custom ROMs have shorter battery life and S-Pen problems. I'm not after a hot rod. I'm after usable, as in not crippled.
I'd like to see a Windows 8.1 ROM for it like is on the Surface Pro 2. Android and IOS are just too limited.
IT_Architect said:
I'm not there yet, but I'm drifting closer to your way of thinking. However, from what I read, custom ROMs have shorter battery life and S-Pen problems. I'm not after a hot rod. I'm after usable, as in not crippled.
I'd like to see a Windows 8.1 ROM for it like is on the Surface Pro 2. Android and IOS are just too limited.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want Windows....have your boss get you a Nokia. You will never see a Windows ROM on a Note.....talk about a bloated and crippled OS.
Sent from my Note 3 via Tapatalk
donc113 said:
If you want Windows....have your boss get you a Nokia. You will never see a Windows ROM on a Note.....talk about a bloated and crippled OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we have different expectation in how we want to use the phone. LOL!
I have been the CTO of two different tier-1 automotive suppliers, and now own my own IT company, so I am the boss. They haven't made Windows phones in a while. The last Windows phone was Windows Mobile, at which time they were big player. There isn't a trace of Windows in "Windows Phone #x". It's their old game console, with a phone added. Microsoft used the same game console operating system in the tablet market and failed miserably until they put Windows on it with the Surface Pro 2. It will be no different with phones.
With the power coming to p;hones and tablets, this year I got interested in settling on a device that the guys could carry off duty to do emergency tech support when we get a server alarm or frantic call while in the mall. We currently use laptops and Dell XPS 12 convertibles and Windows Mobile phones, which I even had myself until recently. PMing with a developer at XDA that I've worked with over the years, he also laments about the loss of Windows as the most productive and capable development environment, but things are what they are. The problem with the old phones was the small screen and slow data speeds make them something you only use in emergencies. The upside is they did in 2009 everything that the new phones aspire to. I have been attempting to duplicate their capabilities in either IOS or Android. Now that the Note series and Android have achieved parity in the handwriting recognition and speech to text, an HD screen, a usable RDP client, SFTP Terminal and file manager apps, it has shown itself to be usable for us in that role. I have no interest in root per se, in fact I'd rather not because playing with phones is not what we do. I'm simply attempting to fill in the few remaining usability shortfalls. The most major is call recording that works the same whether on or off Bluetooth. Another one we would like to have back is bare metal restores.
Thanks!
IT_Architect said:
I think we have different expectation in how we want to use the phone. LOL!
I have been the CTO of two different tier-1 automotive suppliers, and now own my own IT company, so I am the boss. They haven't made Windows phones in a while. The last Windows phone was Windows Mobile, at which time they were big player. There isn't a trace of Windows in "Windows Phone #x". It's their old game console, with a phone added. Microsoft used the same game console operating system in the tablet market and failed miserably until they put Windows on it with the Surface Pro 2. It will be no different with phones.
With the power coming to p;hones and tablets, this year I got interested in settling on a device that the guys could carry off duty to do emergency tech support when we get a server alarm or frantic call while in the mall. We currently use laptops and Dell XPS 12 convertibles and Windows Mobile phones, which I even had myself until recently. PMing with a developer at XDA that I've worked with over the years, he also laments about the loss of Windows as the most productive and capable development environment, but things are what they are. The problem with the old phones was the small screen and slow data speeds make them something you only use in emergencies. The upside is they did in 2009 everything that the new phones aspire to. I have been attempting to duplicate their capabilities in either IOS or Android. Now that the Note series and Android have achieved parity in the handwriting recognition and speech to text, an HD screen, a usable RDP client, SFTP Terminal and file manager apps, it has shown itself to be usable for us in that role. I have no interest in root per se, in fact I'd rather not because playing with phones is not what we do. I'm simply attempting to fill in the few remaining usability shortfalls. The most major is call recording that works the same whether on or off Bluetooth. Another one we would like to have back is bare metal restores.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hummm.....haven't made a Windows Phone in years? I suggest you look at this site:
http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us
You wanna do "bare metal" recoveries? Just root and it's a piece of cake.
Oh...my background? I did some programming in this new fun language called BASIC in 1963, then moved on to FORTRAN in '68. Switched carreers in '70 so didn't get back to programming until early 80s and that was pure assembly language. Then C and then converting COBOL to SQL.
I had more fun with hardware so became a UNIX System Administrator and Oracle DBA in the mid 80s.
Retired in late 90's from my government job and worked for 14 years as a UNIX SA, Sybase DBA and Window's Administrator for British Telecom here in the US in the VideoConferencing nitch.
So I kind of have a computing background and in my experience, most CTO's come from the sales and marketing side of the business, not the technical side.
Obviously I have no idea if any of the above applies to you.
Sent from my Note 3 via Tapatalk
IT_Architect said:
I think we have different expectation in how we want to use the phone. LOL!
I have been the CTO of two different tier-1 automotive suppliers, and now own my own IT company, so I am the boss. They haven't made Windows phones in a while. The last Windows phone was Windows Mobile, at which time they were big player. There isn't a trace of Windows in "Windows Phone #x". It's their old game console, with a phone added. Microsoft used the same game console operating system in the tablet market and failed miserably until they put Windows on it with the Surface Pro 2. It will be no different with phones.
With the power coming to p;hones and tablets, this year I got interested in settling on a device that the guys could carry off duty to do emergency tech support when we get a server alarm or frantic call while in the mall. We currently use laptops and Dell XPS 12 convertibles and Windows Mobile phones, which I even had myself until recently. PMing with a developer at XDA that I've worked with over the years, he also laments about the loss of Windows as the most productive and capable development environment, but things are what they are. The problem with the old phones was the small screen and slow data speeds make them something you only use in emergencies. The upside is they did in 2009 everything that the new phones aspire to. I have been attempting to duplicate their capabilities in either IOS or Android. Now that the Note series and Android have achieved parity in the handwriting recognition and speech to text, an HD screen, a usable RDP client, SFTP Terminal and file manager apps, it has shown itself to be usable for us in that role. I have no interest in root per se, in fact I'd rather not because playing with phones is not what we do. I'm simply attempting to fill in the few remaining usability shortfalls. The most major is call recording that works the same whether on or off Bluetooth. Another one we would like to have back is bare metal restores.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can root and install safestrap and still retain your normal functionality. Only adding the options to backup and restore. I would root/install busybox/ install safestrap and wipe and flash the stock deodex version. Beans has a nice clean nc4 base posted. Before you end up with to much on your phone that you dont want to wipe it. You will also want to odin the nc2 kernel before booting up your custom setup for the first time. I can assure using the listed setup will keep superb battery life and all stock functions and features.
donc113 said:
...most CTO's come from the sales and marketing side of the business, not the technical side.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never heard of one that was in a Tier-1 Automotive supplier. BTW, I was also a CIO. Basically, when you are CIO, you are responsible for the direction and implementation of the corporate information structure. You do that after working with department heads and watching the department functions. You discuss your thoughts and direction with the CTO and flesh out the details. As CIO, you then budget the project. You keep the CFO in the loop on requirements, and for optimizations, you work with him to get him on board. During the board meetings, we hammered out the whens because it may be something not IT related makes the most sense to do first. Everyone also scrutinizes your plan and offer suggestions. The marketing side in a Tier-1 Automotive supplier is the sales team and/or organization, who work closely with the Engineering department for costs and timing. It really helps to be technical before you become a CIO.
Social life in high school for me was studying solid state electronics. In college studied automotive technology, and I designed an electronic ignition system for one teacher, and helped another who was writing a book to come up with the formula for calculating ratios for a compound planetary gear set. Prior to my CTO work, I also was military, but full-time guard, aircraft mechanic supervisor, then I bought a plane and learned to fly, then a military academy on an age waiver, then Signal Officer, which means wired and tower communications and COMSEC, then a command, then flight school on an age waiver, then served my commitment flying for the guard. Thus, in civilian life, they threw developing a Tool and Die CNC department, then sent me to their production plant to write an fully integrated ERP package. I used Faircom's C-Tree that time around, and wrote my own translator to use CB86 syntax. I also designed and built the electronic circuits for automation and was farmed out by them to, of all places, a large food distributor who needed a system to monitor their temperatures and gas on weekends so they didn't come back on Monday with thousands in loss. (Who was a friend of the owner) I started an Industrial Design company, only two of us, and did that for two years, but made a lot of money. Someone then made us an offer we couldn't refuse. One of the employees of one automotive supplier became part owner in another, that was in trouble from an IT standpoint and GM expectations, learned I was free, and they started taking me to lunch. I also authored a full ERP system for them, and we went from the cut list to the top 3% GM supplier rating. It was there I was featured in two national publications, one you may remember since you go back that far, was Application Development Trends. This was built on a DBMS. I publicly challenged Oracle at a developer conference on their query optimizer, and they could not deliver.
I enjoyed being high energy, but one day one a friend there said to me, "I have no idea why you do what you do. I would never do what you do even if I could." He got me thinking. I had lots of vacation time, but no time to take them. I wasn't sure of the ages of my kids or their birthdays. After a few months of thinking about it, I told them I was resigning to start my own business, and that I would give them 2 months before leaving. As the time approached, they said they wanted me to do a project, and if I finished it withing 5 months, they would pay me a sizable bonus, and pay me after I left for another 6 months to help start my new business. The CFO didn't think it was possible to get done in that time, and I wasn't too sure either, but I took the gamble. When they wanted to carve a week out of my time for another project, I then told them that they then also need to tack on a week to the 5 months, which they did. I was completely oblivious at the time how important my stipulation would be. It was implemented and in place, and working with only with just under 2 days to spare because I had to cancel 2 roll outs on other weekends for issues. (Shutting down GM can cost you your business) When I was about to get out, I had a daughter wise beyond her years show me her research about home schooling, and said she did that because she noticed how much more enjoyable it was to be around home school kids. I was concerned about socialization, but she did her homework, and in this area, they have a school, gym, and teachers for classes you can't do at home. There was far more socialization, and the kids were totally transformed in 6 months to being nice, with brothers and sisters tripping over themselves to help each other and others. In basketball, they mopped the Class A teams in our area, and finished 3rd Class D in the nation. They started college at 17, and Magna Cum Laude. I've been on my own for several years now. Well, they are gown up. It's easier to build and run a company than what I was doing. I have UNIX servers and one site that does 5 1/2 million unique visitors a month, so this may sound crazy, but I miss the board room and the pressures...and my dad tells me I am crazy to miss it. LOL! I think what I miss most is working with lots of people and lots of critical problems to solve. I also had fun as a speaker at quarterly meetings. While not every move I've made has been a good one, you don't know what works until you try. We seem to have a lot in common, and both like to learn. The chemistry, electronics, math, and physics has been fun to learn, but oddly, the most fun is working with people on projects, at the gym, or running. You may have some time over me, but I haven't been sitting still either.
Lest anyone believe that I had much of a hand in any of this, I will dispel that right now. There are heal marks from being dragged every place I've been. I bought a plane and learned to fly because when flying with them as a crew I would be sick for two days. One day a pilot took me aside and told me that he used to be just like me, and it took learning to fly to get over it. I went to a military academy because people encouraged me to, and that I needed to to achieve my potential. You can't name one thing in my life that didn't go similarly, and all of this happened from the Lord dragging me to through this to prove to me that through trust in Him, all things are possible. All I can say is it worked. An there is a huge thanks on my part to the people who spent time with me to give that opportunity, and I'm far from some religious or pious guy.
donc113 said:
There isn't a trace of Windows in "Windows Phone #x". It's their old game console, with a phone added. Microsoft used the same game console operating system in the tablet market and failed miserably until they put Windows on it with the Surface Pro 2. It will be no different with phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you do a little research, you will see what happened there. You can also research and find that killing Windows Mobile was Steve Balmer's greatest regret. In his words, I put Microsoft way behind in this area. There are different kinds of users. Steve saw the boom in the gamey non-technical side, but he didn't have that market. He came late to the party using the gaming platform, but in doing so he lost his mobile business market and developers. Their developers were faced with one of two options, the closed platform of IOS and being Apple's slave, or the open Android market and fierce competition. The new Windows Phone couldn't even connect to Microsoft's own products, while the iPhone/IOS/BSD could. Things are better now, but until Microsoft comes back to the market with a real Windows phone to tie the Enterprise, desktop, and cloud back together, Google will be the Microsoft of mobile devices, and Apple will be happy with their high-end 15%.
donc113 said:
I had more fun with hardware...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you AND I know darn well I shouldn't be playing with phones, but I have the same illness. Currently, we can wear our noise-cancelling Bluetooth and record conversations with customers. It's our note taker and we send them to each other to pick up on. It's a money saver when you confront someone with what they asked someone to do. Now add to that no backups after you get the phone all set the way you want it? I have NovaLauncher not because I don't like Touchwiz, it's because I can restore the setup without rooting, and Helium or Holo can do the non-embedded stuff, but the Bluetooth thing leaves me seething. As far as rooting goes, yes, that can be done, and it complicates things when one needs service. It just rubs me the wrong way when a phone built in 2009, using technology from 2002 (XP), can do what an Android phone from 2013 prevents me from doing without risking and hacking. With WinMo, when you did a factory reset, you actually got a factory reset. It erased everything on the phone, and copied back the factory operating system. I like to put things in place that are a thing of beauty, and get it behind me.
Of course what I really came here for, I don't have an answer for. LOL! How little can I get away with, when rooting a phone? Why do I want Safestrap when I don't want a custom ROM? Isn't just rooting, SuperSU, and Xpose all I want? This is new ground for me.
PS: I'm looking at the best way to root on another thread without messing up the warranty.

[Guide (Making One)] Please help do a thorough guide to optimising an Android.

Backstory: I've always used iPhones, was tired of the bull****, and wished for Android especially the S8. Was shocked, and I'm rarely shocked, but the agressive violation of privacy, the crazy amount of bloatware, and the unoptimised UX and system services overall.
Now, I'm in charge of a wide ecosystem of people using smartphones in our company as well as other companies I consult for. While people always blab about personal privacy (which is a concern of course), what I don't understand is how people dealing with either sensitive, contractual or strategic informations could use Android devices given that it *excuse but there's no better terms* rapes your privacy in every, but also I'm pretty sure, illegal, ways.
For exemple the Sound Detector app, even when disabled, is constantly listening to your environment without your priori knowledge or permissions. In fact it's mainly the permissions scheme that baffles me: on iOS or any PC or Mac, you can install any app without being constrained to accept giving out information or accessing functions that have nothing to do with the app, THEN you can choose what precise permissions, when and why. And of course there's the whole wider problem of usage and data tracking (which I apparently have to install...a firewall??) or even malware (I have to install a separate antivirus for...on a smartphone). Worst exemple being that of course: www.theverge.com/2018/1/2/16842294/android-apps-microphone-access-listening-tv-habits
Now I like Android for all their efforts, development and implementation, as well as Samsung efforts...but I'm on the verge of having to present a report to ban all Android phones (for a "leave at door" Policy or either iPhone, BBMs and any other "more" secure smartphones) like I just realise they did in the US government and other official institutions as well as some corporations...or...understand very well how it works, and devise a clearly guide on how to completely optimise and secure Android smartphones like I would for PCs/Macs.
So here's my mission if you accept to help me:
1. I want to deconstruct how Android works in a very simple scheme for noob.
2. From that I want to list all the system packages and services, to determine those that are critical, optional or bloatware, and actually describe exactly what they're for so people have a clear idea.
3. I want to list all the base applications, stores or packages apps, to determine those that are critical, optional or bloatware, then what they're for and most importantly the best alternative apps to these.
4. I want to list and make a simple schemes of how the device components (sensors, cam, mic...), the different data canals, and the the different permissions are circulating or violating privacy while screwing cpu time, battery and data.
5. Finally I want to learn, understand and create a simple noob introduction to the different tools like Xposed (and XprivacyLua which seems to be the best options), package disablers (I personally went for BK), Firewall, Adblockers and Antivirus (honestly didn't even think I would need those on Android).
So I guess first, I'll list all the apps, packages (and sub-services) that my Galaxy S8 came shipped with that overwhelmed me, so as to know for a basic Galaxy S8/+/Note what is a consensus of what to disable, why, how and by what to replace if there's alternative, while listing basic how-to's of the tools to that. Note that I only know about BK Disabler as of now.
Reserved
Upd: I haven't had time, but I'm starting to do a table with all the packages, what they're for and wether to disable them.
You do know that Silverpush do affect both iPhone and Android, right? And "leave at the door" policy or either iPhone or BBM? There's two errors in this sentence. Are you really what you claim to be? Or just someone with an agenda who just created an XDA account?
why would you need an antivirus for a phone if you stick to play store apps?
rashat999 said:
why would you need an antivirus for a phone if you stick to play store apps?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are plenty of play store garbage apps with spy ware and crap in them
vladimir_carlan said:
You do know that Silverpush do affect both iPhone and Android, right? And "leave at the door" policy or either iPhone or BBM? There's two errors in this sentence. Are you really what you claim to be? Or just someone with an agenda who just created an XDA account?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iPhone (pretends to) be safe and secure and doesn't straight-up violate your privacy by forcing unneeded permission even before installing the app and running tons of spyware as per unbox while giving all your infos out to apps that demand it and more. It's also a question of procedure: iPhone are really easy to fix/secure with a jailbreak, I didn't even root this Android I got and realised how terribly aggressive their violation of privacy is.
But again, I just want to give people the choice as long as their device is secure, that's why I'm learning all the quirks of Android and how to secure them. All our IT guys confirmed that unless you know exactly how to secure Android devices like we did for our computer park, employees better go for an iPhone.
There's a difference between Apple that might have backdoors to the NSA, and Android that is a crazy open buffet for -permitted- informations stealing without even talking about spyware or silverpush. My Galaxy S8 came with apps and packages that were constantly listening through the mic without my prior knowledge, installation or authorisation, this is intolerable. But I switched for a reason, I'll see if using Android is easily manageable or if it's better to ban them from inside use.
OgreTactic said:
iPhone (pretends to) be safe and secure and doesn't straight-up violate your privacy by forcing unneeded permission even before installing the app and running tons of spyware as per unbox while giving all your infos out to apps that demand it and more. It's also a question of procedure: iPhone are really easy to fix/secure with a jailbreak, I didn't even root this Android I got and realised how terribly aggressive their violation of privacy is.
But again, I just want to give people the choice as long as their device is secure, that's why I'm learning all the quirks of Android and how to secure them. All our IT guys confirmed that unless you know exactly how to secure Android devices like we did for our computer park, employees better go for an iPhone.
There's a difference between Apple that might have backdoors to the NSA, and Android that is a crazy open buffet for -permitted- informations stealing without even talking about spyware or silverpush. My Galaxy S8 came with apps and packages that were constantly listening through the mic without my prior knowledge, installation or authorisation, this is intolerable. But I switched for a reason, I'll see if using Android is easily manageable or if it's better to ban them from inside use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mate my question still stand: are you really what are you claiming to be or you just have an agenda? Some badass company appointed you to decide what is secure and what not. Really? You? In Op you are talking about thinking to allow only iOS and BBM (it's Bbos BTW) only. BBOSS? Really? BBOS was discontinued one year ago...no more updates no more security patches, no more nothing.
vladimir_carlan said:
Mate my question still stand: are you really what are you claiming to be or you just have an agenda? Some badass company appointed you to decide what is secure and what not. Really? You? In Op you are talking about thinking to allow only iOS and BBM (it's Bbos BTW) only. BBOSS? Really? BBOS was discontinued one year ago...no more updates no more security patches, no more nothing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not my job, but that's part of mine to decide or push in front of committees what tool we should use, purely from a utilitarian, managerial and system POV. None of us beside IT guys ever realised how Android were intolerably insecure, I've had my head in Apple buttock for years thinking "yeah, that's too limited and I heard Android is now as stable and well made".
But I don't want to go back to iPhone either, so here I am sitting with a Galaxy S8 I'm still not using because I don't where to start to secure it, whether I should try to fix everything on the factory rom or just root it.
OgreTactic said:
That's not my job, but that's part of mine to decide or push in front of committees what tool we should use, purely from a utilitarian, managerial and system POV. None of us beside IT guys ever realised how Android were intolerably insecure, I've had my head in Apple buttock for years thinking "yeah, that's too limited and I heard Android is now as stable and well made".
But I don't want to go back to iPhone either, so here I am sitting with a Galaxy S8 I'm still not using because I don't where to start to secure it, whether I should try to fix everything on the factory rom or just root it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay...what exactly makes you to feel insecure? I understand you're bothered that some apps are accessing your microphone. That's easy... Settings-Apps. Tap on those three dots and chose app permission. You'll see what apps have access to microphone and deny permission for them. Job done. What else makes you to feel insecure?
vladimir_carlan said:
Okay...what exactly makes you to feel insecure? I understand you're bothered that some apps are accessing your microphone. That's easy... Settings-Apps. Tap on those three dots and chose app permission. You'll see what apps have access to microphone and deny permission for them. Job done. What else makes you to feel insecure?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I put my S8 away for now I went back to an iPhone. I'm using it off-grid to still try and figure out how it works.
Basically my problems are clear:
1. There's no transparency in background processes/services, the component they use and the data they send.
2. The way permissions are managed is intolerable: forcing you to accept non-necessary and arbitrary access to connected components or private information BEFORE installing the app is a form of extortion. The same goes when running the app: forcing permissions that are not critical to the app code actually running is a form of extortion. Baffles me how Google even allows that today.
3. The fact that there's even a need for a firewall and antivirus, and that the official stores is filled with illegal (copyright infringing app so blatant) and therefor myriads of potential malicious apps like Silverpush-enabled one, without any store control or curation on Google's part.
All this means there is no way I will use an Android rather than an iPhone and allow anyone dealing with private or "sensitive" commercial informations using one inside the company. I'm still trying to figure out if going straight to root is the solution, if I'll have to use cryptography for documents and coms, or if I'll have to spend days figuring out Xposed+Xprivacy, Packages Disablers, MicroG alternative libraries, Firewall and Antivirus and god knows what to make it decently secure like an iPhone (which doesn't aggressively violates your privacy and is really easy to secure with a jailbreak...unless there are hidden backdoors which is still far from the probably illegal open-buffet of private and sensitive informations Google provides to any potential malicious websites, scripts or apps).

Categories

Resources