In this thread I intend to give some basic insight about these two concepts, which are closely entwined with our phone's experience. I'm not a tech guy, but I think this little summary might clear some doubts for people who are new to this kind of issues (people who come from other non-Android phones especially). All feedback is welcome, in particular the one of people who can expand the topic with their knowledge.
"Root" is the common way to refer to the fact to the user account which has superuser rights on the device. Superuser rights imply full control over your phone's capacities, which are determined by the software and the hardware of the device. Non-superuser accounts have limitations, usually established for the sake of software security (for example, not allowing a user to disable critical functions such as phone or GPS), hardware safety (not allowing to change the processor's frequency speed, aka overclocking the CPU) or, in some cases, for someone's profit (disabling wi-fi tethering is a typical one as users are forced to buy data plans in order to use their devices to tether). In Android's case, Superuser is composed of an app* and a set of instructions to give this app root rights.
The bootloader is a program which accesses the internal storage and, basically, controls the loading of the programs and data necessary to initiate the sequence of launching the OS (aka booting, thus the name bootloader). We say that a bootloader is locked when it is programmed in such a way that it won't allow to load the device if it detects data from third-party sources. Unlocked bootloaders do allow these data and will load what these data contain, which will be usually a modified version of the phone's firmware, known as "Custom ROM".
As we can see, there was the fear that one would need to have unlocked bootloaders (i.e the ability to load third-party data in the booting sequence) in order to gain root rights. This would have been terribly inconvenient because only a minority of users will have unlocked bootloaders, since the phones with unlocked bootloaders by default are the ones sold carrier-unlocked. Said carrier-free phones will be a minority as the phone is pretty expensive: most Xperia Plays will be sold using carrier subsidies.
However, our fellow member Chainfire found an exploit (a programming loophole) in Gingerbread which allows said app and instructions to be loaded without the need of touching the bootloaders. Basically, his Gingerbreak program allows the user to have root rights without loading any bootloader-sensitive data. This widens the possibilities for the majority of users who will buy this phone with a subsidy.
*edit 3* Later on, it has become possible to unlock the bootloader even for SIM-locked devices, thanks to different unlockers like Alejandrissimo and Jinx13. This means that, provided that you pay what they charge, you can have your device set up without the bothers of having to buy a SIM-free phone. What's better: their method of unlocking the bootloader SIM-unlocks the phone as well.
I think this is more or less a succint framework of ideas which allows us to define "root" and "unlocked bootloaders" properly. As they say, knowing is half the battle, so I hope this nugget of information allows users to deal with their phones with more confidence.
*edit* as of version 2.3.3, this information has changed. Gingerbreak doesn't work with 2.3.3 anymore, and it seems now that the only way to root with locked bootloaders is to flash a 2.3.2 rom with FlashTool and update through OTA.
*edit2* note that this explanations pertains mostly to the Xperia Play. Other devices are NAND-locked, which means for us that they need unlocked bootloaders to even get root access.
*Note that Android is built in such a way that every app is a user account with limited rights (the ones specified before you download it). Thus, Superuser is a user account as any other app and the set of instructions is meant to give this user account root rights.
Thank you! This was very helpful in clarifying some things.
"As we can see, there was the fear that one would need to have unlocked bootloaders (i.e the ability to load third-party data in the booting sequence) in order to gain root rights. This would have been terribly inconvenient because only a minority of users will have unlocked bootloaders, since the phones with unlocked bootloaders by default are the ones sold carrier-unlocked. Said carrier-free phones will be a minority as the phone is pretty expensive: most Xperia Plays will be sold using carrier subsidies"
by carrier unlocked do you mean sim unlocked? sorry 4 noob question
Indeed, that is what I mean.
Logseman said:
Indeed, that is what I mean.
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Alright, I asked this question and it was answered, but I want to make sure before I try anything.
I just found out from SE that my phone is the Rogers version. It's obviously been unlocked because I'm using it on AT&T.
What I don't know, though, is whether the bootloader is unlocked. Another member recommended that I check TrackID to see if it worked because it depends on the manufacturer DRM's that are wiped in unlocking the bootloader. It did work, so I assume it's still locked, but I wanted to confirm because of being carrier unlocked.
Sent from my R800a using XDA App
If TrackID works, your bootloader is locked, regardless of simlock.
I have a Sim-Unlocked Xperia Play from Rogers that I am using on ATT's network. My phone is boot-locked. When powered off, if I hold the search key while plugging in the USB cable, I do not get a blue light.
I was able to flash the firmware by holding the back key while plugging in the usb cable (with the phone off). I get a green light when I do this. Using flashtool, I was able get 2.3.3 rooted by loading the 2.3.2 firmware, rooting, and then updating OTA.
I bricked my phone several times while loading the firmware and each time I was able to fix it with flashtool or Sony Ericsson's Upgrade Utility. I found that you need a good USB cable, and even then it failed sometimes. I just kept trying and eventually it worked.
We wanted to provide an update on HTC’s progress with bringing bootloader unlocking to our newest phones. We know how excited some of you are for this capability, and we’ve put significant resources behind making this change as soon as possible. While we wish we could flip a simple switch and unlock all bootloaders across our device portfolio, this is actually a complex challenge that requires a new software build and extensive testing to deliver the best possible customer experience.
We’re thrilled to announce today that software updates to support bootloader unlocking will begin rolling out in August for the global HTC Sensation, followed by the HTC Sensation 4G on T-Mobile USA and the HTC EVO 3D on Sprint. We’re in the testing phase for the unlocking capability now, and we expect it to be fully operational by early September for devices that have received the software updates. We'll continue rolling out the unlocking capability over time to other devices as part of maintenance releases and new shipments.
HTC continues its commitment to unlocking bootloaders and supporting the developer community. Because of the importance of this community to us, please expect an update on this about every few weeks as we make progress toward launch. Thank you for your patience and continued support!
(they claim it will come to only two devices for starters the EVO 3D and the Sensation 4G and then it will slowly rollout to other devices that already have 2.3 or enough internal memory on them, this will all start in last August an early September for the first two droids listed... and others will soon follow suit, the only question is do you want you bootloader to come unlocked stock? Or will you buy it locked and be able to sit around and wait for your device to get an update to do so?? LOL
thats why my phone couldnt flash back to 2.3.2..(?)
I live in singapore.. phones are not carrier specific.. so does that mean my BL was unlocked even before I used gingerbreak?
I know this doesnt pertain to the play per se, but maybe you should add that, with nand locked devices, an unlocked bootloader is required to acheive full root, just incase someone with another device googles this question and ends up here
pros and cons of unlocked bootloader
Pros/Cons of rooting WITHOUT unlocking bootloader?
Since being interested in rooting my N1 I've been googling a lot but it's still somewhat confusing. One of the things that's making me hesitent is the idea of permanently (as of the date of this post) unlocking the phone and thus clearly/visibly voiding the warranty.
I've recently stumbled upon instructions for rooting without unlocking the bootloader? Am I correct in assuming this would make the phone appear (no unlock icon) to be unmodified? Also, does this mean one could fully reverse the rooting process and go back to fully stock google signed roms with OTA updates etc (essentially reverting it back as if it were never modified)?
It would seem this would be preferable to any method involving the unlocking of the bootloader. Are there any disadvantages of this? Any increased risks by NOT unlocking the bootloader? Is there a reason why most people have gone the rout of unlocking the bootloader?
My plan is simply to have root access to run setcpu on the stock FRF91 rom. As of now, I'm not interested in other ROMs (baby steps).
tommyinhi27 said:
Pros/Cons of rooting WITHOUT unlocking bootloader?
Since being interested in rooting my N1 I've been googling a lot but it's still somewhat confusing. One of the things that's making me hesitent is the idea of permanently (as of the date of this post) unlocking the phone and thus clearly/visibly voiding the warranty.
I've recently stumbled upon instructions for rooting without unlocking the bootloader? Am I correct in assuming this would make the phone appear (no unlock icon) to be unmodified? Also, does this mean one could fully reverse the rooting process and go back to fully stock google signed roms with OTA updates etc (essentially reverting it back as if it were never modified)?
It would seem this would be preferable to any method involving the unlocking of the bootloader. Are there any disadvantages of this? Any increased risks by NOT unlocking the bootloader? Is there a reason why most people have gone the rout of unlocking the bootloader?
My plan is simply to have root access to run setcpu on the stock FRF91 rom. As of now, I'm not interested in other ROMs (baby steps).
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Click to collapse
The N1 is made by HTC, generaly with htc devices, flashing a stock rom, will re-lock the bootloader, If you decide just to root, you will need a custom kernel before you can O/C All that unlocking the bootloader does is 2 things, It will security unlock the nand (on nand locked devices) allowing r/w access to read only partitions, and it allows you to issue fastboot commands to your device, the main reason alot of play owners went down the unlocking the bootloader path, is that atm it is the only way to flash custom roms other devices, have found sneaky ways to push a custom recovery without unlocking bootloaders, and thus do not need one to flash a custom rom
AndroHero said:
I know this doesnt pertain to the play per se, but maybe you should add that, with nand locked devices, an unlocked bootloader is required to acheive full root, just incase someone with another device googles this question and ends up here
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Click to collapse
I'm not too knowledgeable about the whole Nand thing, so I think you could give a much better explanation about it. I'll include it then
whoa whoa whoa!!!! i achieved root on 2.3.3 with no prob using superoneclick v2.3.3. it works beautifully!
Yes, but you're replying to a thread that's 8 months out of date too!
Sent from my R800x using XDA
Lol. I know, but I've been trolling the site, and I think it may need a bit of new info so someone doesn't follow the steps here now that a better method has been found.
Sent from my R800at using XDA
isavegas said:
Lol. I know, but I've been trolling the site, and I think it may need a bit of new info so someone doesn't follow the steps here now that a better method has been found.
Sent from my R800at using XDA
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why not just stop bumping heavily old threads? then they can rest in piece
and nobody would care
the information thatit's outdated is alreada given in 1st post.
u also could ask a mod to close this as its outdated...
Hey, this thread may be outdated, but it's not my fault if someone necros old threads. Just let it die.
question
can i flash custom roms in a locked bootloader?
yes
big txmer said:
can i flash custom roms in a locked bootloader?
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Click to collapse
only stock gb ones nothing else
Hello guys,
Like some many peoples i bought last month a xperia sp in a airtime provider. But I view that we can't have Cyanogen-Mod with a bootloader locked . In somes Samsung models we can have CM with just a root. Can developpers do something for have a CM rom with bootloader locked ?
Sorry for my bad english
Thanks
No
Any custom ROM not based on stock need a custom kernel,and for install a custom kernel need unlocked bootloader.So cm for lb is impossible.
Dammer Martins said:
Any custom ROM not based on stock need a custom kernel,and for install a custom kernel need unlocked bootloader.So cm for lb is impossible.
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Click to collapse
Yes i know but I request developpers for unlock bootloaders unofficial or for can install custom rom without unlock bootloader.
This is not possible due to the security of the bootloader of Sony. I have absolute 0 knowledge about this but i think that the bootloader prevent not-properly-signed kernels..
mrjraider said:
This is not possible due to the security of the bootloader of Sony. I have absolute 0 knowledge about this but i think that the bootloader prevent not-properly-signed kernels..
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Click to collapse
In effect, indirectly it prevent for this.
Jermin94, to install CM, it need a specific kernel, to overclock/underclock per example, but it's for drivers i think too.
If even a locked bootloader CM version will be release, i think you will not got all of features of CM, but it meant be possible : i don't know.
Sorry for my bad english, i'm french
make a TA backup of your phone, including DRM keys before you unlock the bootloader. later on for warranty purposes you can relock the bootloader, and restore the DRM keys and stock firmware etc. i don't know how far the guys at the service center will go to detect whether the phone has been unlocked or not...
alphaz1 said:
make a TA backup of your phone, including DRM keys before you unlock the bootloader. later on for warranty purposes you can relock the bootloader, and restore the DRM keys and stock firmware etc. i don't know how far the guys at the service center will go to detect whether the phone has been unlocked or not...
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Click to collapse
alphaz1, That's no good to the OP as his phone is SIM locked to a carrier. That means it will have 'Bootloader Unlock Allowed: NO' in the Service Menu. There is currently no way to change this even if you SIM unlock at a later date (officially or otherwise).
Unless Bootloader Unlock Allowed is set to YES, you cannot enter Fastboot mode (Vol+ and Blue led) to enable entry of the Sony bootloader unlock code. Hence the the only custom ROMs that can be used are those based on the stock kernel - so no CM or MIUI etc.
Moral of the story: if you want to experiment with non-stock kernels and ROMs on an Xperia device, make sure you by a factory unlocked version, not one that is SIM locked or has been subsequently unlocked to allow use of other networks.
alphaz1 said:
make a TA backup of your phone, including DRM keys before you unlock the bootloader. later on for warranty purposes you can relock the bootloader, and restore the DRM keys and stock firmware etc. i don't know how far the guys at the service center will go to detect whether the phone has been unlocked or not...
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Click to collapse
As i know for unlock bootloader you need to enter IMEI for get unlock code.. So I think, once you enter that IMEI, sony add it to database. And your RMA depend on your luck
Only my theory.
Sent from my C5303 using xda app-developers app
Jermin94 said:
Hello guys,
Like some many peoples i bought last month a xperia sp in a airtime provider. But I view that we can't have Cyanogen-Mod with a bootloader locked . In somes Samsung models we can have CM with just a root. Can developpers do something for have a CM rom with bootloader locked ?
Sorry for my bad english
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You talk like the developers have a choice and are doing it on purpose.
SunnyChrono6 said:
You talk like the developers have a choice and are doing it on purpose.
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Click to collapse
I didn't understand what do you mean !
Jermin94 said:
I didn't understand what do you mean !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He means if it could have been done, it would have been done.
And because it can't be done, you asking isn't going to make any difference, no matter how much you plead
And this thread has no actual purpose. CM 10.2 might be possible when Sony will release 4.3, but it's not a certain thing.
Thread closed.
My phone's mfg. date is 11w30.
so, reading lots n lots of topics .. I understood that there's no other way other than the paid method to unlock the bootloader ..
But suddenly i realised in the s1 tool they suggest us to check for the SEMC SIM LOCK CERTIFICATE!
which allows us to unlock the bootloader , Still people say it is riskier ..
Daringly , I decided to give a try and i succesfully unlocked my bootloader ..
Just bcz i had that one necessary thing i.e. SEMC SIM LOCK CERTIFICATE. !
So, my main intention for starting this thread is users who have succesfuly unlocked their bootloader which lie after 11w29..
i.e. 11w30, 31 ,32 etc.
Just check do u have this SEMC SIM LOCK CERTIFICATE .
If, this helds true that we can unlock the bootloader ignoring the date then it will be VERY VERY helpful for the other users to unlock it ..
Please comment
No reason.
The guides are clear. Having 11w29+ there is a high possibility of hard brick if you try to unlock your bootloader. Nobody tells it is 100% while by experience we can tell that the percentage is quite high, maybe around 90% but nobody can tell for sure.
Many people with "SEMC SIM LOCK CERTIFICATE" have bricked their phones and people with the same dates have gotten different results.
It's up to the user to decide if he wants to take this risk.
stamatis said:
No reason.
The guides are clear. Having 11w29+ there is a high possibility of hard brick if you try to unlock your bootloader. Nobody tells it is 100% while by experience we can tell that the percentage is quite high, maybe around 90% but nobody can tell for sure.
Many people with "SEMC SIM LOCK CERTIFICATE" have bricked their phones and people with the same dates have gotten different results.
It's up to the user to decide if he wants to take this risk.
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Click to collapse
Hmmm..
Thats true..
hi so i have a few things id like to talk about. i was wondering why it is not possible to port aosp roms to s8 snapdragon? givin its the same android version. also when i was messing around when rooting my s8 i saw that the software i had installed in the steps i went into settings and saw that i could enable oem unlock it worked and whenever i go back to that software its still enabled however i could not use any fastboot commands still. also i flashed twrp (not safe strap already have that) and now my base recovery does not show up....
kadenball said:
hi so i have a few things id like to talk about. i was wondering why it is not possible to port aosp roms to s8 snapdragon? givin its the same android version. also when i was messing around when rooting my s8 i saw that the software i had installed in the steps i went into settings and saw that i could enable oem unlock it worked and whenever i go back to that software its still enabled however i could not use any fastboot commands still. also i flashed twrp (not safe strap already have that) and now my base recovery does not show up....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aosp roms requires a custom kernel to work, this requires:
1, unlocked bootloader(not possible on the snapdragon variant)
2, a custom recovery (not possible due to locked bootloader)
Just using the oem unlock option does not unlock the bootloader, more steps are required for most phones in order to unlock the bootloader, if it was that easy it would have been exploited by now, most of the guides on the snapdragon version mention that the bootloader is not unlockable.
You more than likely will need to restore the recovery through odin or something,
sofir786 said:
Aosp roms requires a custom kernel to work, this requires:
1, unlocked bootloader(not possible on the snapdragon variant)
2, a custom recovery (not possible due to locked bootloader)
Just using the oem unlock option does not unlock the bootloader, more steps are required for most phones in order to unlock the bootloader, if it was that easy it would have been exploited by now, most of the guides on the snapdragon version mention that the bootloader is not unlockable.
You more than likely will need to restore the recovery through odin or something,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks ya I fixed it! And ya I understand there are additional steps to doing this that's why I mentioned fastboot. If you could guide me in a direction to potentially learn more about the kernals and how they work or what I would need to be good at to exploit download mode or knox whatever is required to potentially exploit the bootloader I would not give up on it im fine with wasting my time. I had recently talked to Sam help chat and they told me someone could unlock the bootloader for me (a phone company near me) I talked to a guy over the phone that said it could be possible bc they have the Samsung tools to do so but he told me to call the next day because the other tech knew more then him, so I called the next day and he said they could do it but they would get in trouble for doing so. My plan is to go in when the guy that doesn't know much is working ? and get him to unlock it. Hopefully then I could upload the software here and free the snapdragon slaves!!! If your interested in the conversations I had with Samsung and this other company I could upload the screen shots thank you for your reply!
kadenball said:
Thanks ya I fixed it! And ya I understand there are additional steps to doing this that's why I mentioned fastboot. If you could guide me in a direction to potentially learn more about the kernals and how they work or what I would need to be good at to exploit download mode or knox whatever is required to potentially exploit the bootloader I would not give up on it im fine with wasting my time. I had recently talked to Sam help chat and they told me someone could unlock the bootloader for me (a phone company near me) I talked to a guy over the phone that said it could be possible bc they have the Samsung tools to do so but he told me to call the next day because the other tech knew more then him, so I called the next day and he said they could do it but they would get in trouble for doing so. My plan is to go in when the guy that doesn't know much is working ? and get him to unlock it. Hopefully then I could upload the software here and free the snapdragon slaves!!! If your interested in the conversations I had with Samsung and this other company I could upload the screen shots thank you for your reply!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never dabbled in making kernels or anything so I'm pretty useless with that. The phone has been out for over 3 years now and as of yet there is no software method to unlock the bootloader, android devs would have figured that one out by now if it was possible, if it is possible then maybe there some extra hardware thats required to unlock the bootloader, I honestly don't know enough, I'm experienced enough to know to do certain things but I don't know the ins and out of how bootloader are coded, how the instructions are carried out. But it would defo be interesting to see if they do this for you.
sofir786 said:
I've never dabbled in making kernels or anything so I'm pretty useless with that. The phone has been out for over 3 years now and as of yet there is no software method to unlock the bootloader, android devs would have figured that one out by now if it was possible, if it is possible then maybe there some extra hardware thats required to unlock the bootloader, I honestly don't know enough, I'm experienced enough to know to do certain things but I don't know the ins and out of how bootloader are coded, how the instructions are carried out. But it would defo be interesting to see if they do this for you.
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Ya thanks man when I talked to the inexperienced tech guy he said I could come in and we could try but I didn't want to drive there and waste my time ? but the experienced dude said I could probably find another repair place that would do it (figured it's another one of their shops he was hinting at as there are a few around me) so I will attempt to do this and hopefully some how it works and I can upload the software here not sure if flashing it would unlock anyone elses bootloaders as I expect it to be some sort of key like the HTC phones used to require and is unique to each device. When I got that oem to appear I was trying anything and everything in adb and fastboot as I suspected if we could glitch the phone in fastboot mode we could unlock it lol at least that's what I hoped for, tried upload mode kernal panic the 3 different download modes and tried to replace the Samsung download mode driver and flash the fastboot Android driver on top of it but my lack of knowledge on these things hindered me from making any progress but I believe there's a exploit in this root software that was copyed from the s9 and simply devs don't want to waste there time because they believe it is impossible. I've seen much hard thing accomplished in this dev sight hopefully the right person can figure it out and Is motivated by this post or point me in the right direction ? thanks if you read all this if I get it unlocked you will def see another post lengthy post ?