Related
First off this is in no way trolling or bashing; but I have installed Windows 8 on both on one of my laptops and PC but I just noticed that I really don't use them that much. It seems that it just doesn't catch my attention and is too much of a bother to try to use the mouse and keyboard to navigate in between the Metro UI and desktop. Now I'm perrty sure that it is awesome on a touch device but I have not tried it yet.
How many people on here actually use Windows 8 on a non touch device on a daily basis? With out getting bored with it?
I am using Windows8 as my second system for daily use. I have installed it on a small partition, so I have Windows 7 and 8 in my pc.
I do not find it to be boring or difficult to use. It is true the first times you are a bit messed, but once you get used to Metro gestures it is easy and really quick to use Windows.
I am not sure how you are trying to navigate between Metro and Desktop or how are you using Windows. But you do not need to access Desktop to open programs. Once you install any program it appears in Metro, just click in the tile and you go directly to Desktop with the program launched. It is that easy.
I hope this can be helpful to you
i've also been using win 8 on my notebook and my desktop since the first preview. haven't had any issues navigating. of course its a little confusing using it for the first time, but after about a day its simple.
Haven't gotten bored of it either. for being previews, they run pretty darn smooth.
i tried using it on my laptop but i got rid of it in favor of ubuntu 11.10
it felt like trying to use android on my laptop(just overly confusing and a pain to use the GUI)
i do however believe windows 8 will kill off the laptop/netbook and all other tablets successfully, just take a x64 based tablet like the acer w500 or an arm based tablet like the transformer prime and put windows 8 on them, you will get a tablet when you are playing, and laptop when you're working
I use (and have used) Windows 8 on my non touch NetBook since Developers preview and love it it's also my primary operating system.
Sent from my LG-LS670 using XDA
I've actually been using it for a while and really find it akward to use on a regular desktop. I am waiting to try and possibly buy it on tablet. I have however tried the Transformer Prime running android and I have to say I was impressed by it; hope Windows 8 is as good on a tablet because I am not an andorid or ipad person.
sinister1 said:
I've actually been using it for a while and really find it akward to use on a regular desktop. I am waiting to try and possibly buy it on tablet. I have however tried the Transformer Prime running android and I have to say I was impressed by it; hope Windows 8 is as good on a tablet because I am not an andorid or ipad person.
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You should buy any windows 7 tab and put windows 8 on it, my plan was to get the Acer w500 tablet and install windows 8 on it. I actually got rid of my android tablet so I can use windows 8, don't get me wrong android is nice on my phone but on a tablet its kind of useless.
There won't be Windows 8 for ARM at stores for buying, it will be installed in tablets only. Keep this in minde
Well, there is a good reason that you aren't using the Metro UI. It was designed specifically for tablets and it adds absolutely nothing to a regular PC. There are not too hard to see that anything except the most basic tasks requires more actions to complete compared to the regular desktop.
Microsoft needs to wake up and realize that they can't have the same UI for touch and mouse.
droidjosh said:
i've also been using win 8 on my notebook and my desktop since the first preview. haven't had any issues navigating. of course its a little confusing using it for the first time, but after about a day its simple.
Haven't gotten bored of it either. for being previews, they run pretty darn smooth.
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Click to collapse
Ditto here. I have been using it as my daily OS since the consumer preview to give it a good test and have updated to the release preview. Once you get used to it it just comes naturally. I also have a Samsung Slate 7 I bought to try it on and am using it daily so I have been using both the touch and nontouch enabled. The skydrive integration and the synching of favorites etc is working fantastic.
I've been playing around with Win8 on my own desktop for a while. It's not too hard to get used to, but I've always had a question - what's the point?
Sir. Haxalot said:
Well, there is a good reason that you aren't using the Metro UI. It was designed specifically for tablets and it adds absolutely nothing to a regular PC. There are not too hard to see that anything except the most basic tasks requires more actions to complete compared to the regular desktop.
Microsoft needs to wake up and realize that they can't have the same UI for touch and mouse.
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Click to collapse
Wrong, it brings realtime notifications to the start menu AND the desktop experience as well as reducing the time it takes to find applications in existing start menu program groups. But you strike me as one of those people who took a look at it and said "It's for tablets, will not use" and then never learned how to use it.
Not only that, but you need to wake up and realize that they are the developers, They CAN have the same UI for both mouse and touch and the current implementation as seen in Release Preview works very well for that purpose.
Sent from my LG-LS670 using XDA
I'm using it on my primary PC (dual screen, quad core, 4GB RAM, Geforce GTX460) on a daily basis. I use it with Photoshop/Illustrator/Chrome/Word/Wordpress, as well as various news readers.
It took a few hours to get through the learning curve (back during the Consumer Preview, not since Release Preview--that was easy to adapt to) but I'm confident that I'm actually MORE productive now, and am able to stay on top of things better thanks to deeply integrated features like the People Hub and so on.
Obviously, there's still some ground to cover--the OS is still essentially beta, after all--but all in all I believe it's the most impressive consumer OS I've ever used.
On the other side of things, I'm also beta testing the server in a simple file server role with a dozen users. Nobody's using it as a primary storage device yet, but I have a handful of titles setup to monitor services, alerts, etc, and I really like it. This is likely to make for a GREAT server OS once the major vendors apply themselves to creating Live Tiles that present pertinent information to an administrator upon login .
Microsoft is in a distant lead when it comes to advanced OS design compared to, for example, Apple
sinister1 said:
First off this is in no way trolling or bashing; but I have installed Windows 8 on both on one of my laptops and PC but I just noticed that I really don't use them that much. It seems that it just doesn't catch my attention and is too much of a bother to try to use the mouse and keyboard to navigate in between the Metro UI and desktop. Now I'm perrty sure that it is awesome on a touch device but I have not tried it yet.
How many people on here actually use Windows 8 on a non touch device on a daily basis? With out getting bored with it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The more I use it the more I can foresee MS sales decline. Yes I have gotten use to some features and so on but I honestly don't see this in a corporate or business environment. But to be fair I haven't tested it on a touch device but non the less this has no business on a non-touch device at all. I don't get it; MS sees the reviews that people post on line and also see that the sales of Windows Phone are moving at a snail's pace and they force a touch screen OS to non touch devices
I've been using windows 8 for some time now, on desktop with no touch (only mouse and keyboard) and i can safely say that everyone who says metro is bad for mouse is smoking good grass and i would like some too...
the extra gestures are only required when you want to shut down your PC only. That's it. the only instance in which you have to do more actions than you would on a regular windows 7.
other than that, the advantages are so blatant it's a wonder nobody mentions them
this is the fastest, most efficient operating system i have ever seen. Does windows 7 load for you in 4 seconds? because that's how long it takes for windows 8 to load on my desktop: 4 seconds. and it is not a state of the ark i7 machine, but an old generation core 2 duo.
The resource management is also oustanding. tasks are launched and executed almost like in a real time system (i sometimes forget windows 8 is not a real time system).
And if you get used to using your keyboard, you will save many of the "unnecessary" mouse gestures.
yes, it takes a few moments to get used to it, but once you've configured everything properly, windows 8 is miles ahead of any other system.
Hello everyone,
I hope with your knowledge of the system you will be able to help me with some of my questions.
I would like to make sure that I know what I am doing before swapping to a new system.
Here we go than...
1. I am currently using Netflix and Hulu services via VPN (and Windows 7 + Chrome), will I be able to use them with Windows 8 without any problems?
2. I understand that there is no option to side load apps for the Modern Interface other than from MS Store... is there any way to go round it? Reason for this question is connected to Q1. If I would want to use Netflix/Hulu app instead of browser will I be able to get it? (I suspect that there will be a market geolocalization thing... as it is with WP. In iOS or Android it is not a big problem though...
3. I got my original Windows Vista HP (32b) in my desk, purchased as an OEM... should I install it on my PC before buying an upgrade to WIn 8 Pro? What other options than "upgrade W8Pro" will there be for ppl. to purchase new system...
4. If I get a tablet/hybrid to replace iPad with more versatile device (x86 architecture) will I have to get 2 browsers...2 mail clients, etc... in order to be able to work in both modes desktop/modern? Considering that such a device will have limited disk space it seems like a problem. As far as I know modern interface is not really an interface but it is more like a second separate and quite independent system. This means that if I open Word/browser/mail in one mode and move on to continue to work in second I will have to start those app again and data between them will not be synchronised? Yes?
Like... all those program started in Modern Interface will no be visible and accessible on my task bar in desktop mode...
5. Along with changing system on my desktop and getting replacement for my iPAd I am thinking about swapping my phone. I use Lumia 710 and as much as I like the general feel of WP I hate that it is even more "closed" than iOS. Will I loose or gain functionality if I'll get Android device instead of WP8?
1, yes not a prob at all its the same as windows 7
2, I am 99% sure this will be hacked soon but you could also go for Enterprise edition or get a dev license (if you can get an edu email then you don't even need to pay)
3, not to sure myself sorry I have software assurance and so didn't look this up.
4, Windows 8 has a built in mail app (can be removed), you shouldn't think of it as 2 interfaces but more that you have some metro apps some x86 apps the desktop and the modern interface are as one. This whole hula balu about 2 diff interfaces is rubbish. Also the main browser is the one used in metro so you don't download a second one you just set it as your main one and you have both interfaces.
5, depends on what you mean by functionality, both os's have there strong and weak points it really Is down to how you use it and whatyou want from the phone.
lumpaywk said:
2, I am 99% sure this will be hacked soon but you could also go for Enterprise edition or get a dev license (if you can get an edu email then you don't even need to pay)
4, Windows 8 has a built in mail app (can be removed), you shouldn't think of it as 2 interfaces but more that you have some metro apps some x86 apps the desktop and the modern interface are as one. This whole hula balu about 2 diff interfaces is rubbish. Also the main browser is the one used in metro so you don't download a second one you just set it as your main one and you have both interfaces.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
thanks for your answer.
2. Can you give me more details about it? What is Enterprise edition and about this edu e-mail address...How does it all work...
4. Can I start desktop apps in Metro (can they be pinned?) or vice versa? IE10 is default in Metro - if I use default Metro mail app... can I change default browser to Chrome (btw: how does it work in Win8...as in Win7? Or are there any differences).
IE10... does it sync between devices like Chrome?
I install enterprise edition but I get no sound it may be the drivers but I am not sure realtek has drivers for windows 8 yet
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galtom said:
Hi,
thanks for your answer.
2. Can you give me more details about it? What is Enterprise edition and about this edu e-mail address...How does it all work...
4. Can I start desktop apps in Metro (can they be pinned?) or vice versa? IE10 is default in Metro - if I use default Metro mail app... can I change default browser to Chrome (btw: how does it work in Win8...as in Win7? Or are there any differences).
IE10... does it sync between devices like Chrome?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
2. As with other versions of Windows you get multiple versions depending on your needs budget etc. Windows 8 come in Windows RT (ARM version (does not support old style x86 software, this is for cheap tablets etc and will only be sold preinstalled)), Windows 8 (basic version), Windows 8 Pro and then Windows 8 Enterprise. Enterprise has a few extra features for big business and own of them is the ability to side load metro apps meaning a company can write custom metro software.
The thing with the edu email is that .edu is for educational institutions schools university's etc. So that MS can get students using its products they let you have a dev license free for the time your in study. All you need to do is find someone who has an email from a school college etc and sign up with there email. I used my dads he is a lecturer. With a dev license you can unlock a couple of devices.
4. There is no 2 separate things here metro and desktop are NOT 2 diff working spaces. Try to think of the start screen as the same thing as the start menu from the old windows except instead of just a list it fills the screen. You can put any app software etc on this screen the same as you could before with the start menu. Older software does have ugly icon squares but there is a thread here with software to make your own metro style icons. The one thing to note though is that you can only open metro apps on 1 monitor ie you cant pin your mail app to one screen and then open cut the rope on another. This is not true for the desktop. Metro apps also open in there own sandbox environment, this means they can not interact with anything outside of themselves, they can share info etc but they cant change anything and so on.
lumpaywk said:
2. As with other versions of Windows you get multiple versions depending on your needs budget etc. [...]
4. There is no 2 separate things here metro and desktop are NOT 2 diff working spaces. [...].
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
2. Ok.. I guess I'll have to wait and see what is out there and for how much.
Are you sure that with dev licence I will be able to use US Store/UK Store/etc... as I please?
4. Do I read you correctly (I do work with 2 screens) that I will not be able to have Chrome (I believe it does not support Metro yet) on both screens (to get data and to write in the second). One would thought that I should be able to have any combination of software/apps I want on both screens - Metro x Metro; Desktop x Metro; Metro x Desktop; Desktop x Desktop.
Truly strange and quite disturbing...
New questions :
Are there apps for Metro from Hulu, Netflix, BBC (iPlayer)?
Will they be OK to use with VPN tunnelling or I will have to use browser any way...
Will Hulu work on tablet/hybrid with x86 Windows 8 or will it say I am using mobile device (as it is with iOS/Android) and will not work in its Free version.
galtom said:
2. Ok.. I guess I'll have to wait and see what is out there and for how much.
Are you sure that with dev licence I will be able to use US Store/UK Store/etc... as I please?
4. Do I read you correctly (I do work with 2 screens) that I will not be able to have Chrome (I believe it does not support Metro yet) on both screens (to get data and to write in the second). One would thought that I should be able to have any combination of software/apps I want on both screens - Metro x Metro; Desktop x Metro; Metro x Desktop; Desktop x Desktop.
Truly strange and quite disturbing...
New questions :
Are there apps for Metro from Hulu, Netflix, BBC (iPlayer)?
Will they be OK to use with VPN tunnelling or I will have to use browser any way...
Will Hulu work on tablet/hybrid with x86 Windows 8 or will it say I am using mobile device (as it is with iOS/Android) and will not work in its Free version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Chrome does now support Metro you just have to have it set as your default browser. The 2 screens is only Metro style apps so yes you cant have 2 metro style chromes but you can still open as many desktop/old style chromes as you want just as you did in windows 7. With dual screen one screen will always display its half of the desktop the metro start screen only goes onto 1 monitor. It is that one monitor that metro apps will run. It is a huge blunder in my opinion but what can you do.
If you are running a desktop pc esp with multi monitors then you wont notice to much diff in looks and feel. You will notice a huge jump in speed though but a loss of transparent windows . It is also worth putting a start link on the taskbar as sometimes getting the corner between screens is tricky (well not tricky but faster if you have a bigger target), just google "show start.exe".
As for the marketplace from diff country that I don't think would be possible I thought you where talking about side loading apps. You may be able to with the use of vpn but I cant confirm this.
Ok, thanks for the info.
I guess the best would be to simply try Win8 before I buy it.
3 (new) questions than:
What is the latest ver. of Win 8 I should download?
I do not own any VM software - is there (an easy) way to test Win* under Win7 (I dont mind that system will not be as fast, etc... but I would be able to see how it works...)
If I would have to make a proper install of Win8 on my PC... how hard will it be to go back to my current Win7?
As I keep 90% of ma data either in the cloud or on a on a different partitions on my drives formatting C: is not a problem... but I have read that once Win 8 is installed Win7 does not want to format this drive and install itself on it.... true?
galtom said:
Ok, thanks for the info.
I guess the best would be to simply try Win8 before I buy it.
3 (new) questions than:
What is the latest ver. of Win 8 I should download?
I do not own any VM software - is there (an easy) way to test Win* under Win7 (I dont mind that system will not be as fast, etc... but I would be able to see how it works...)
If I would have to make a proper install of Win8 on my PC... how hard will it be to go back to my current Win7?
As I keep 90% of ma data either in the cloud or on a on a different partitions on my drives formatting C: is not a problem... but I have read that once Win 8 is installed Win7 does not want to format this drive and install itself on it.... true?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your best bet is to use a diff hard drive that way you can dual boot into windows 7 and windows 8 then when your done unplug the hard drive test you can boot into 7 still then format. This is the best way though I have heard of issues going back I have never had any, you boot to a disk then format the drive when you install 7 so I don't see how it could be, maybe they are trying to keep there files etc ie downgrade instead of a new install.
you can get a 90 day trial of rtm (the final build as it will be sold) here http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/jj554510.aspx But note you will need to uninstall it and reinstall if you want to keep using windows 8 after the 90 days.
Last thing,
I plan to install Win8 (today) on my external 160GB disk.
It will be connected to my PC via e-Sata... any advice before I proceed?
I dont want to put it on disk where is my current Win7 as I need it daily to work... so this should work... right? (motherboard is old; Abit Ab9Pro)
If this hasn't already been answered, I use tor for Netflix and it doesn't work will on windows 8. I can load the home but then it goes back to the UK version. It works fine on 7.
X10man
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x10man said:
If this hasn't already been answered, I use tor for Netflix and it doesn't work will on windows 8. I can load the home but then it goes back to the UK version. It works fine on 7.
X10man
Sent from my U20i using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry I got bit confused...
Where do you use it (UK or USA)?
You try to access Netflix via VPN and Metro app or browser?
I'm in the UK and I use tor to access the US version with desktop chrome and proxy switchy to act as a Tor button.
X10man
Sent from my U20i using xda premium
Perhaps it is a TOR (and selected exit node) problem...
Try this 3h trial of VPN (free) and see if it is working - http://www.hideipvpn.com/freetrial/
Do you use Chrome under desktop or Modern UI mode?
Can you recommend a good (free) set of video codecs? I cant play mkv at the moment
1. If Im running windows 7 64bit, can I upgrade to a windows 8 64bit right from windows 7 without having to format hard drive?
2. If so, can I create a restore point in windows 7 in case I want to go back once windows 8 is installed?
Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
For question 1, yes, this is what I did.
For question 2 I don't know.
SysAdmNj said:
1. If Im running windows 7 64bit, can I upgrade to a windows 8 64bit right from windows 7 without having to format hard drive?
2. If so, can I create a restore point in windows 7 in case I want to go back once windows 8 is installed?
Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes you can. the installer will give you options on what you want to keep
no. you must create a restore image on an external hard drive if you want to return back to windows 7
In-place upgrades are possible and are technically a supported scenario, but they are a *terrible* idea. They are, at best, going to save you a bit of time reinstalling apps (even though the install process itself takes vastly longer when doing an in-place upgrade, so I'm not sure it's a net positive even there). At worst, you'll end up with an unbootable system due to an unexpected driver incompatibility or something silly like that, lose all your data, and need to reformat and do a clean install anyhow. The usual result is somewhere in between; your system will be less stable than it should be, will take longer to boot up, some programs won't work after the upgrade and will need to be reinstalled anyhow, and at some point in the near-ish future (six months to two years) your systme will develop odd misbehaviors that will require you to effectively reinstall WIndows anyhow (that's what the refresh and reset operations in Win8 basically do, with or without preserving your files, respectively).
Also, if you opt for a clean install, you'll know you have a backup of all your data. That's pretty valuable. You can (and should; the bit about the upgrade failing and you losing access to your data was not a joke) make such a backup anyhow, of course.
As for being able to revert to Win7, the only way that'll happen is if you back up the whole system drive. Restore points don't work between major versions; if you do an in-place upgrade, you won't be able to downgrade it again short of restoring a backup or wiping the system and instally Win7 cleanly.
I did it
SysAdmNj said:
1. If Im running windows 7 64bit, can I upgrade to a windows 8 64bit right from windows 7 without having to format hard drive?
2. If so, can I create a restore point in windows 7 in case I want to go back once windows 8 is installed?
Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After doing an in place Upgrade on my box i hope my story will help you.
I simply couldn't resist the offer MS made 'til 28 Feb 2013 so i downloaded Windows 8 64 Bit to my Laptop and after the Upgrade Assistant gave me a green light and promised except for the ATI drivers everything should work out i started the upgrade. After roughly 4 h the Upgrade process was done and windows 8 ready. Even the mentioned ATI driver was not a big problem because after the initial upgrade windows 8 asked if i would care to update it and did so.
Windows 8 is creating a Backup of your current installation so there is a restore point you can use. I did not try it out and after 2 weeks i deleted the restore Point.
So far so good. The installation wasn't that complicated. Unfortunately after that i could no longer install any Program or update. The reason behind it was that the upgrade process is exchanging something in the users Registry and after that the security checks simply denied me access to the file System. Even booting in recovery mode did not help (just like my Android GBook tablet at the moment ) . Only way to cope this was to create a new User with Admin Rights as a replacement. Doing so one of my document Folders got lost in transition. I still have no Idea what happened but after moving a Folder from MyDocuments user old to MyDocouments user new the Move process suddenly died and the files where gone. I did have a Backup so luckily it was just annoying but still gave me a rough time figuring out what happened.
You will probably be bothered to reinstall some applications (MS Apps will work) and the new interface is something to get used to for a Lot of Developers.
My System turned quiet a bit slower because of the ever running index service etc. Indexing is even denying write access to newly created files quite regularly and you will have to wait for it to finish before file operations are possible. You definitively have to tune system services if you want a system that is not slowing you down.
My final advice after 2 Month using Win8?
Don't do an in place upgrade it if you don't have to. Windows 7 was working perfectly for me. After 15 years of IT Support under my belly (even thou most of it doing Back-office Servers) Win7 felt like an OS that wasn't in the way and did a great Job. Windows 8 will get in your way via slowing down your Box and making steps that were natural in win7 more cumbersome.
Especially System settings are more or less hidden (because the average "dummy" user needs to be protected from it :silly: ) and are hard to find. Turning every entry in your Start menu into an Metro Icon does not Help either. It's just messing up your start screen. Be Prepared to switch between metro and "normal Desktop" quite often if you are still using "older" programs. Even if you don't want to your Program will decide for you .
I think a fresh install helps in that category because it might make it easier to "switch your mind" to the new environment. It will also be a chance to clean your System of old and rarely used programs.
If you still want your Upgrade make sure your Backups are up to date and Working!
Hope this is helping you out.
Cheers
Lanman99
Thanks for enlightening us on the new screw-ups and mishaps of Win8 upgrades. The availability of the downgrade restore point is a new and welcome change, but the rest sounds about right for an upgrade.
Four hours to upgrade (when a clean install takes 15 minutes): check
Permissions messed up afterward: check
Performace actually decreased (even though a clean install of Win8 performs better than a clean install of Win7 on the same hardware): check
Data loss (your Documents folder): check
As for your points re: Win8 itself: first of all, if your only experience with it is based on that abomination of an in-place upgraded system, assume everything you "know" about the OS from that experience is wrong. I've been running Win8 for ~1.5 years now (counting betas) and have never had the problem with indexing service (which runs low-priority and doesn't take system resources that you're trying to use for anything else), data loss from library or folder movement, or any of the other problems you mention. I did try an upgrade install during the betas, but the result was trash - a bunch of features didn't work afterward, and the performance was worse than it should be - and the response when I reported the issues was "do a clean install". Upgrade installs are only *technically* supported; even MS thinks they're a bad idea.
Judging on OS based on an upgrade install is like judging a car model based on taking that car's interior and body, but replacing the engine, transmission, suspension, electronics, wheels, brakes, lights, and wipers with random junk you pulled out of a wrecking yard (without checking the original model) and beat into shape with a hammer and a hacksaw. Sure, it *looks* like it's easier (cheaper than making the needed money to buy the actual model) than buying a new car, and if you're really careful and moderately lucky, it will actually run pretty well and not strand you in the middle of nowhere or burst into flame or something awkward like that. It's going to be a complete pain in the ass to maintain though, you'll end up having spent a ton of time hacking it together in the first place and then keeping it running until you quickly pass the point where it would have been easier to just get the new car, and in the meantime it will never perform as well as it "should" have. Putting a bunch of junk car parts in a BMW body does not mean you're driving a BMW.
By the way, those problems that I didn't have? That even includes the "switching back and forth" thing, because I found it was a lot better to just not use Metro at all. I treat the Start screen the same way I treat the Start menu on older NT6.x versions: an irrelevant graphical thing that pops up for the half second where I type the name of a program I want, in between when I hit the Windows key and when I hit Enter. I pinned my most-used apps to the taskbar. My typical admin stuff is on the Win+X (or right-click the Start button - yes, there is one, it's just hidden until you hover over it) menu. Outlook is a better mail client than Mail, and better scheduling tool than Calendar. Pidgin is better than Messenger. If for some reason I want to log into Facebook, I have this thing called a "web browser" (which runs in a window, with all its features instead of a crippled subset of them, thank you very much).
Metro Skype is good enough I do use it sometimes, although I snap it to one edge of my (very wide) screen so it doesn't get in the way; I've considered going back to desktop Skype anyhow. Desktop SkyDrive is much better than the Metro one. Same for desktop OneNote vs. the Metro version. The only Metro apps I actually use much are games, and frankly I don't use Metro games that often on my main (desktop) Win8 box; why would I, when I could play Eve Online or Civilization / Alpha Centauri instead?
I only had the problem of a few games and visual studio needing a reinstall on my upgraded system. Not one of the other issues mentioned.
Oh, also had an issue where before the update it said my GPU drivers wouldn't work post upgrade, they did and as soon as I upgraded I was able to obtain native windows 8 drivers anyway. My integrated GPU was fine.
GoodDayToDie said:
Thanks for enlightening us on the new screw-ups and mishaps of Win8 upgrades. The availability of the downgrade restore point is a new and welcome change, but the rest sounds about right for an upgrade....
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Click to collapse
Abomination is probably a bit harsh (i'm still working on that monster )
Don't get me wrong. I don't wan't to bash windows 8 for the sake of it. I just don't see a urgent reason to advise SysAdmNj to upgrade. Especially not an in-place upgrade. And i definitely agree that a clean install is the first choice to move to any new OS.
BUT surprisingly i pulled the same stunt growing from Vista to win7 on my Dell Studio 17 which went great. I had 1 issue with the on-board camera but other than that my notebook was running better, faster and more stable afterward and that was the primary reason why i tried it again with win7 to win8 on my lenovo. Still i got it working and at least it gave me valuable support experience and it's a dirty job but somebody...
Reason to try Metro is also based on my Idea to stay ahead of my Users. I think Metrostyle systems will be heading in our direction if we want it or not. It is to tempting for the marketing branches of our major OS vendors so i keep tinkering with it.
That "Back and Forth" simply lies in the program designs. It will just take me some time to get used to it, sorry but i'm old ).
Some of my apps (namely Hotmail which became Outlook) are seamlessly integrated and as you already mentioned much better than before most others are still written for WinXP/Vista/7 and will bring you back to familiar havens. Internet is done by a heavily customized FF portable, so carefree covered.
My main critique boils down to System settings Metro style. A lot of settings, tools and tweaks which grew into supporters hands look castrated to fit the average users need. That really is annoying. It looks i have to brush up on system scripting skills to support my colleagues. Thought i could get away with less typing these days :crying:.
...and yes switching a self patched '74 Beetle engine in a 2013 Beamer won't make a Racing machine but it looks funny trying to get away with it .
Right click the start icon on the desktop and there is a control panel link. Just the same as win7
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Right click the start icon on the desktop and there is a control panel link. Just the same as win7
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Yes if you are on your desktop. Starting up Metro won't give you that. You have to switch to your Desktop first. Or activate "All Apps" and sidescroll to Systemsettings. Besides it is not integrated which leads you again to your Desktop.
So System Settings = getting around Metro. The Settings Metro offers are still limited. Which IMHO is not a good way to do it. Yes it sounds nitpicking but if MS decides to get completely rid of our beloved Desktop, Metro is all you get.
But as i said, maybe just getting old...
On the metro start screen if you start typing it automatically fires up search. Type control and usually control panel is right there in front of you. Very quick and metro based.
But I agree, we could do with a native metro control panel.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
On the metro start screen if you start typing it automatically fires up search. Type control and usually control panel is right there in front of you. Very quick and metro based.
But I agree, we could do with a native metro control panel.
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In windows 8.2, there is supposed to be the Pc settings with more options like power options in it. This will not get rid of the desktop control panel though
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
Maybe I should have created a poll. Should I stay on windows 7 or upgrade?
I dont know now. I'm not crazy about windows 8. I'm fine on windows 7. Thing is most laptops come with windows 8 so I thought I might as well start familiarizing myself more. Although to be honest I think even if I was to buy a new laptop with windows 8, I would just clone that image and just restore a windows 7 image with all my apps etc. That or just change the hdd with mines
But thanks for all the insights.
Win8 does perform better, and has some cool new features (built-in ISO mounting, for example, is long overdue). If you do what I do, and mostly treat it as Win7 that has one more slot on the Taskbar than normal, it's a great OS. There are some things that mildly bug me, like the removal of window border transparency, but that's hardly a big deal.
The Win+X menu (or right-click on Start) can be done from anywhere; you don't have to be on the Desktop already. Selecting the Control Panel from that menu will open up the Desktop-mode Control Panel whether you're in the Desktop, the Start screen, or some Metro app.
I actually prefer the lack of border transparency and the flat colours etc, guess that's just personal preference though.
If you have a spare box--techies should always have a spare box--pop Win8 onto it to play around. If you're happy with Win7, I'd stick with that for your production box(es).
It's OK to skip Win8 (and 8.1). It's a transition rev, and biz won't migrate to it. There'll be more changes when Win9 rolls out next year, so even if you're set on sticking with Win, you can save half the work by jumping on Win9 then, because sure as heck you won't stay with 8.x when 9 is out.
Basically, if it's fun, then do it. If it's work, then don't.
There hasn't even been so much as a hint from Microsoft that there will be a windows 9 any time soon. I think we're in for a few more years of updates yet, windows 8 can still be "fixed".
Microsft stated - over a year ago, I think - that Windows was moving to an annual, smaller-releases cycle. Win8 and WP8 were the first OSed released after that announcement, with "Blue" for Windows and Windows Phone expected later this year (about one year after the W*8 releases). WP9-related job postings, referencing that OS by name/number, have already been posted on LinkedIn as well.
Guys, is there any way to downgrade from win 8.1 to 8? Without losing my data? I want my windows 8 back so desperately, I feel very frustrated with windows 8.1 which doesn't supports many of my apps. Can someone help me?
Do you not have your recovery discs or usb drive? You may have a partition your hdd with it also. I had to go back to 8 because I needed to update some of my drivers and software pre 8.1. I just installed back to factory stock using my usb recovery. It was easy just insert and follow the prompts.
ROORnNUGZ said:
Do you not have your recovery discs or usb drive? You may have a partition your hdd with it also. I had to go back to 8 because I needed to update some of my drivers and software pre 8.1. I just installed back to factory stock using my usb recovery. It was easy just insert and follow the prompts.
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I don't think I have any recovery discs or usb drive with me, I didn't expect this would happen so I didn't make any backup before I install 8.1, is it possible for me to create a usb recovery with windows 8 now?
You probably have one on HDD. Hit win key + x and go to disk management and you should have a recovery partition.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
nikctsh said:
Guys, is there any way to downgrade from win 8.1 to 8? Without losing my data? I want my windows 8 back so desperately, I feel very frustrated with windows 8.1 which doesn't supports many of my apps. Can someone help me?
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The only possible way to restore is getting back to factory condition using the Windows 8 Refresh or Reset. Any app installed will also be gone but it will keep your documents and personal files safe. Refresh will also put an HTML link on your desktop showing what programs were lost and the links to downloading them again.
Tel864 said:
The only possible way to restore is getting back to factory condition using the Windows 8 Refresh or Reset. Any app installed will also be gone but it will keep your documents and personal files safe. Refresh will also put an HTML link on your desktop showing what programs were lost and the links to downloading them again.
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Now I'm on window 8.1 and refreshing can bring my system back to windows 8? I'm okay with all the apps but does this include desktop apps?
ROORnNUGZ said:
You probably have one on HDD. Hit win key + x and go to disk management and you should have a recovery partition.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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Thanks I will try this. But by doing this will it remove all my personal files and apps?
If you restore to 8 you will lose everything
Sent from my Nexus 4 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
All those mourning about 8.1 and go back on 8.0 read instructions here
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/restore-refresh-reset-pc
I'm curious to know how bad the update was?
SysAdmNj said:
I'm curious to know how bad the update was?
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I'm not sure what others think. It was really bad, at least for me. Firstly I hate the new start button. Basically it serves no purpose since it doesnt comes with the most-wanted start menu. On windows 8, I used to keep my taskbar clean (without pinned apps) because there is no start button. But now, the button is there and couldnt be remove, but it's function is disappointing. Anyway, the worst of all is still the compatibility issue. A lot of my apps previously on windows 8 couldn't run. It has been almost one year long of wait before my favorite apps on windows 7 become compatible with windows 8, but after a few weeks it couldn't run anymore because I upgraded my device to 8.1, I'm not sure how long I have to wait this time.
nikctsh said:
I'm not sure what others think. It was really bad, at least for me. Firstly I hate the new start button. Basically it serves no purpose since it doesnt comes with the most-wanted start menu. On windows 8, I used to keep my taskbar clean (without pinned apps) because there is no start button. But now, the button is there and couldnt be remove, but it's function is disappointing. Anyway, the worst of all is still the compatibility issue. A lot of my apps previously on windows 8 couldn't run. It has been almost one year long of wait before my favorite apps on windows 7 become compatible with windows 8, but after a few weeks it couldn't run anymore because I upgraded my device to 8.1, I'm not sure how long I have to wait this time.
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I've tried about 2 laptops with windows 8 in the past 5 months or so, and I returned them because I just didnt like windows 8. Dont need a touchscreen on my laptop. I figured let me wait for the 8.1 update as it should improve UI, and I'll wait to see the laptops released in the 3rd/4th quarter but from what I'm hearing so far windows is going to push me towards a macbook and even if I have to dual boot a windows 7 on it so be it lol.
SysAdmNj said:
I've tried about 2 laptops with windows 8 in the past 5 months or so, and I returned them because I just didnt like windows 8. Dont need a touchscreen on my laptop. I figured let me wait for the 8.1 update as it should improve UI, and I'll wait to see the laptops released in the 3rd/4th quarter but from what I'm hearing so far windows is going to push me towards a macbook and even if I have to dual boot a windows 7 on it so be it lol.
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I'm using windows 8 without touchscreen too, oops, now 8.1. If you don't like touchscreen on laptop, then you should NEVER, NEVER get windows 8.1. Its just awful for non-touchscreen users like me. Previously you can access all apps menu by easily right click or swipe up on your touchpad, but on 8.1 the only way to access that menu is by swiping up from the middle of the start screen, which means there's no way for you to access that menu using touchpad, though you still can access by clicking on a superb small arrow on start screen. For me the menu comes in handy on windows 8 but its a trouble on 8.1
nikctsh said:
I'm using windows 8 without touchscreen too, oops, now 8.1. If you don't like touchscreen on laptop, then you should NEVER, NEVER get windows 8.1. Its just awful for non-touchscreen users like me. Previously you can access all apps menu by easily right click or swipe up on your touchpad, but on 8.1 the only way to access that menu is by swiping up from the middle of the start screen, which means there's no way for you to access that menu using touchpad, though you still can access by clicking on a superb small arrow on start screen. For me the menu comes in handy on windows 8 but its a trouble on 8.1
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Or total rocket science, the little key on the bottom left of your keyboard with a lovely windows icon on it.... takes you straight to start. Go into the windows 8.1 settings and you can change it to take you direct to the all apps screen instead but this is pointless in my opinion. If you go to start, then begin to type the name of the app you want and it will immediately search for it, try it out. I just type "je" and it already has jetpack joyride there, hit enter, launches, or you can navigate around the search results with the arrow keys or click. Really not that hard to use without a touchscreen, even my grandfather can do it and he's in his late 70's
Also, right click on start. All apps button appears bigger.
What is the best PC Decrapifier? Something like Ccleaner, but better?
You already named it, at least for registry decrapifying.
In my opinion though the best decrapifier is not crapifying in the first place.
Or learning to do it manually. I've never met one such tool that I trusted, or that I was confident did enough good to be worth the risk of harming the system.
ericerk said:
What is the best PC Decrapifier? Something like Ccleaner, but better?
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I have had good luck with System Mechanic. It has kept my xp machine usable - after 10 years! www.iolo.com
Sent from my HTC One using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
GoodDayToDie said:
Or learning to do it manually. I've never met one such tool that I trusted, or that I was confident did enough good to be worth the risk of harming the system.
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Is there a tutorial on this?
ericerk said:
Is there a tutorial on this?
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Click to collapse
Yep
1) go to control panel>programs and features>uninstall a program
2) find the stuff you want to remove>uninstall, follow on screen instructions.
for trash files:
Right click partition>properties>general tab>disk clean up>use it to delete everything you want.
After you;ve done these
right click the partition from which you deleted the files>properties>tools>defrag/optimize and defrag the disk.
Do this every 1-2 months and you shall have a happy relationship with your PC.
There is also a good thing to keep all stuff downloaded from the internet in the downloads folder until you can make sure you actually need it, so you can delete it all at once.
There is really no magic stuff the "cleaner programs" do. And windows does it better than they do. So why not use the tools you have at your disposal?
as 6677 said, it is better to avoid getting craptose in the first place. Just be careful what you download and you shall be fine.
ericerk said:
Is there a tutorial on this?
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Certainly one should keep the list of installed programs as minimal as is possible, but over time Windows builds up problems in the registry and elsewhere that simply slow down the system. In fact, uninstalling programs often leads to the registry values not being uninstalled as well, because of poor uninstallers by the programmers. Even if the values are uninstalled, that produces gaps in the registry unless it is compacted as well. That sort of thing simply isn't efficiently handled except by a program designed for the purpose. So one can improve the system by uninstalling - but the little stuff keeps building up.
Defragmenting the hard drive also helps, and should be done periodically.
It is a poor design by Microsoft. One simple solution is to simply reformat and reinstall windows every few years, thus clearing out the registry and all Windows problems. But that can be a hassle to reinstall and re-download all the updates.
My home XP machine, at about 10 years, is the longest I've ever maintained any Windows installation without reformatting. It boots a bit slowly, but once it is up and operational it is still usable. Before I ran system mechanic (and still use it periodically) it simply could not be used. I didn't reformat the machine because it has programs (mostly games) that my son still likes, and I don't have the disks and/or install codes for them any more.
I would suggest a reformat / complete reinstall as the best possible solution.
stevedebi said:
Certainly one should keep the list of installed programs as minimal as is possible, but over time Windows builds up problems in the registry and elsewhere that simply slow down the system. In fact, uninstalling programs often leads to the registry values not being uninstalled as well, because of poor uninstallers by the programmers. Even if the values are uninstalled, that produces gaps in the registry unless it is compacted as well. That sort of thing simply isn't efficiently handled except by a program designed for the purpose. So one can improve the system by uninstalling - but the little stuff keeps building up.
Defragmenting the hard drive also helps, and should be done periodically.
It is a poor design by Microsoft. One simple solution is to simply reformat and reinstall windows every few years, thus clearing out the registry and all Windows problems. But that can be a hassle to reinstall and re-download all the updates.
My home XP machine, at about 10 years, is the longest I've ever maintained any Windows installation without reformatting. It boots a bit slowly, but once it is up and operational it is still usable. Before I ran system mechanic (and still use it periodically) it simply could not be used. I didn't reformat the machine because it has programs (mostly games) that my son still likes, and I don't have the disks and/or install codes for them any more.
I would suggest a reformat / complete reinstall as the best possible solution.
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CCleaner clears out the old registry keys in theory, otherwise one can do it manually as GoodDayToDie suggested.
Windows actually defrags as you go along now, you will generally find that manual defragging is entirely unecessary. Although if you do want to do it as piece of mind it at least wont take long (my desktop I upgraded to windows 8 on release and has still only just reached 0.1% fragmented).
SixSixSevenSeven said:
CCleaner clears out the old registry keys in theory, otherwise one can do it manually as GoodDayToDie suggested.
Windows actually defrags as you go along now, you will generally find that manual defragging is entirely unecessary. Although if you do want to do it as piece of mind it at least wont take long (my desktop I upgraded to windows 8 on release and has still only just reached 0.1% fragmented).
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Click to collapse
It is rather difficult to clean out registry values that have no clear naming convention, just a random string of hex codes - not all programs are logical in the directory entries. So manual cleaning has never seemed that good to me.
I'm presuming that the OP is not using windows 8, which really hasn't had time to get cluttered yet. For those older windows xp and win 7 installations, I have found System Mechanic Pro to be the best program, since it has programs for optimizing as well as cleaning out. I haven't yet installed it on any of my Windows 8 machines (no need yet so far as I can tell).
I've not heard of windows automatically defragmenting the disk, do you have a link?
EDIT: Nevermind, I just checked my Windows 8 and I see that microsoft has set up the defrag to run periodically. I'm not sure this was enabled in Win 7, but I had diskeeper on that installation so I would not have noticed.
stevedebi said:
It is rather difficult to clean out registry values that have no clear naming convention, just a random string of hex codes - not all programs are logical in the directory entries. So manual cleaning has never seemed that good to me.
I'm presuming that the OP is not using windows 8, which really hasn't had time to get cluttered yet. For those older windows xp and win 7 installations, I have found System Mechanic Pro to be the best program, since it has programs for optimizing as well as cleaning out. I haven't yet installed it on any of my Windows 8 machines (no need yet so far as I can tell).
I've not heard of windows automatically defragmenting the disk, do you have a link?
EDIT: Nevermind, I just checked my Windows 8 and I see that microsoft has set up the defrag to run periodically. I'm not sure this was enabled in Win 7, but I had diskeeper on that installation so I would not have noticed.
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I'm using an HP ENVY 17 w/ 4th gen intel i7 (Running 8.1)
It just feels slower, than my win 7 platforms.
It's a refurb, It was on sale from staples for 50% off. This thing: http://www.staples.com/HP-ENVY-Touc...rbished-Laptop/product_12329?cmArea=home_box1
It just feels slow... Yes I got rid of bloat, yes I keep a good eye on installed apps. Yes I have anti viruses, there are no viruses.
If you're talking about pre installed crap that comes on every pre-built system, you've got to do it manually.
If you're talking about toolbars and trial ware and junk ware and ilk, I use a combination of ADW Cleaner, Ccleaner, Combofix and Super Anti Spyware. Gets the job done. Some stuff is still manual, though.
The only legitimate excuse for an OEM-installed OS image is to boot the thing up so you're sure you don't have a lemon. You can copy the "drivers" folder (which can come under a variety of silly names) off the machine if you want to, but they're all online anyhow and often the online ones are more up-to-date. Make sure you have the license keys for any installed software that comes with the machine (the OS license key, and the Office one if relevant, are typically on stickers somewhere on the machine, though they can be elsewhere).
Once you've completed the initial bootup, shut the machine down, boot off of a DVD or flashdrive or external HDD or netboot or however you want to do it, and wipe the disk. The Windows installer, in "custom" (clean install) mode can do this. Delete all of the partitions, and either re-create them in less-stupid layout, or just let Windows create a sane partition layout for you by telling the installer to install Windows on the now-empty system drive. Once the system is set up, you'll need to install updates and software you actually want to use, but you'd probably have to do all of that anyhow. Drivers should get pulled down automatically, and for those that aren't, it should be trivial to retrieve them (the obvious exception would be if you somehow don't have working network drivers, in which case grab them off the web on another PC and transfer via USB).
Those OEM system images are pure garbage. In my experience, the first bootup of such a thing can sometimes take longer than the entire OS re-installation, including *its* first bootup! A clean install will run faster, more securely, and more stably; you will have far more resources available including disk space and RAM; you can be sure there are no unexpected programs lurking in the background to "optimize your customer experience" or similar BS. Since you already have the license keys, it won't cost you anything. Best of all, those OEM turds masquerading as software (Norton anything, WildTangent, etc.) will be gone, far faster *and* more cleanly than if you'd tried removing them without taking the nuclear option. It's the only way to be sure.
GoodDayToDie said:
The only legitimate excuse for an OEM-installed OS image is to boot the thing up so you're sure you don't have a lemon. You can copy the "drivers" folder (which can come under a variety of silly names) off the machine if you want to, but they're all online anyhow and often the online ones are more up-to-date. Make sure you have the license keys for any installed software that comes with the machine (the OS license key, and the Office one if relevant, are typically on stickers somewhere on the machine, though they can be elsewhere).
Once you've completed the initial bootup, shut the machine down, boot off of a DVD or flashdrive or external HDD or netboot or however you want to do it, and wipe the disk. The Windows installer, in "custom" (clean install) mode can do this. Delete all of the partitions, and either re-create them in less-stupid layout, or just let Windows create a sane partition layout for you by telling the installer to install Windows on the now-empty system drive. Once the system is set up, you'll need to install updates and software you actually want to use, but you'd probably have to do all of that anyhow. Drivers should get pulled down automatically, and for those that aren't, it should be trivial to retrieve them (the obvious exception would be if you somehow don't have working network drivers, in which case grab them off the web on another PC and transfer via USB).
Those OEM system images are pure garbage. In my experience, the first bootup of such a thing can sometimes take longer than the entire OS re-installation, including *its* first bootup! A clean install will run faster, more securely, and more stably; you will have far more resources available including disk space and RAM; you can be sure there are no unexpected programs lurking in the background to "optimize your customer experience" or similar BS. Since you already have the license keys, it won't cost you anything. Best of all, those OEM turds masquerading as software (Norton anything, WildTangent, etc.) will be gone, far faster *and* more cleanly than if you'd tried removing them without taking the nuclear option. It's the only way to be sure.
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Wait... So in theory If I can find a legit version of Windows 8.1 (some RTM or straight from Microsoft) I can just reinstall it, and use my current serial? I don't have very much installed so I there's nothing really i'd need to back up, other than some Touchscreen drivers.
Yep. That serial may not work on any *other* computer (or it might; I don't know how restrictive OEM licenses are on 8.x) but it should work (again) on that one.
Worth A try.
GoodDayToDie said:
Yep. That serial may not work on any *other* computer (or it might; I don't know how restrictive OEM licenses are on 8.x) but it should work (again) on that one.
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It won't even work on my mine getting an error message:
(Same thing happens w/ 8.1)
Seriously?? Wow, lame. I've been doing that for years. I guess they don't allow the use of OEM licenses with retail copies at all anymore, even on the same hardware. I'm sure you could get them to activate it if you called them, but that's a bloody pain to need to do...
It's possible that the .WIM file (Windows IMage) in the recovery partition is a clean installer without the OEM crap (I'd be surprised, but not shocked; they could have it run a script to crapify the installation after re-installing) in which case you *should* be able to use that, but... meh. That's less convenient, for sure.
GoodDayToDie said:
Seriously?? Wow, lame. I've been doing that for years. I guess they don't allow the use of OEM licenses with retail copies at all anymore, even on the same hardware. I'm sure you could get them to activate it if you called them, but that's a bloody pain to need to do...
It's possible that the .WIM file (Windows IMage) in the recovery partition is a clean installer without the OEM crap (I'd be surprised, but not shocked; they could have it run a script to crapify the installation after re-installing) in which case you *should* be able to use that, but... meh. That's less convenient, for sure.
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I did the windows 8 reset, which took about 6 hours and just loaded up the OEM bunch of software w/ all the bloat installed. I guess I'll call Microsoft soon... Do you know of a direct number?
ericerk said:
I did the windows 8 reset, which took about 6 hours and just loaded up the OEM bunch of software w/ all the bloat installed. I guess I'll call Microsoft soon... Do you know of a direct number?
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Just go through the computer and remove the junk programs. The control panel will allow you to uninstall them. If you haven't done it yet, I'd install classic shell (or similar) to get your start menu back.
You can also use msconfig (type the WIN + R and type in the command) to remove startup programs from running.
I'm sorry, I thought you were dealing with an older machine, that is why I suggested system mechanic. A new machine can be easily cleaned up manually.
stevedebi said:
Just go through the computer and remove the junk programs. The control panel will allow you to uninstall them. If you haven't done it yet, I'd install classic shell (or similar) to get your start menu back.
You can also use msconfig (type the WIN + R and type in the command) to remove startup programs from running.
I'm sorry, I thought you were dealing with an older machine, that is why I suggested system mechanic. A new machine can be easily cleaned up manually.
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It's all good, I did that the first day I got the comp!! It just feels like like its sluggishly running.