Brief Note of history. Best late January ROM - Galaxy Note GT-N7000 General

Note is 3 months old.
First month (November to Christmas eve) some crucial development like rooting and initial development of ROMs happens. Chainfire, SheepROM, FM kernel and new RocketROM are what I read about while I wait for my online purchased Note to arrive in the mail.
Second month, December is when things kick off. Huge development kicks off. Very unstable. Lots of experimentation, problems, fixes. Rocket ROM goes from V5 through a new version every three or two days. Newbies can't keep up with learning AND testing before new versions are out. Too much new stuff. A good problem to have like too much money
Third month, Christmas through January. ROMs have grown and matured. Eyebee burns himself out from frantic Rocket ROM dev up to V20 and other ROMs have cross polinated features. New big name developers have joined us like CheckROM team, JKay, Hardcore, Tegrak, etc. And the Kernel continues being advanced by Angelom now to 3.5b
We are in a new phase. Probably last month before ICS comes out. Final quarter. Now is the time we can have it all in one ROM. Fast, cool, long battery, call recording, bluetooth headset and music, fast waking, dual core, fast GPU, 6 columns, fast scrolling, RTL, menu toggles...
So what is the best ROM now?
Which ROMs are great and what are their features? What things do they lack which could make them number 1 ROM once added?
I'm running Cassies Xtralite V6. Its kept overheat under control. And as we speak I'm downloading Cassies V7 and Chracks V10. Abyss 3.5b is already waiting to be tested when those are done. I hope no one calls me and interupts me from using my phone ;-)
So many choices. But working together we save a lot of time :-D
ICS will be way cool. But by the time it gets here we will already have awesome phones with customised GingerBread. Maybe I'll wait for month 2 of ICS before I get back onto ROM merry go round.
Rocket ICS V32?

My HD2 would have been useless without a custom Rom,as for the GNote I am still a bit skeptical as I haven't had big issues except some lag in opening certain apps .Mind you I haven't even had it rooted yet.
However it was nice of you to keep us updated with the latest Rom developments,and hope you keep on doing so from time to time in case some of us decide to jump.
Jack

Nothings better then stock Rom and manual tweaks. No tacky themes here
GALAXY NOTE

Rocket, baby...

pjm77 said:
Rocket, baby...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was kind of hoping for a longer explanation

Just switched from the SGS II to the Note last night. I like it, the screen is nice with the Hi Res, but kinda also not liking the Pentile thing. Never the less, I miss my SGS II because of the sentimental reasons. THE NOTE is a beast.
The first thing I did was pop on CheckROM. On my SGS II, it was very stable.
I saw some lag with the stock rom, after a clean up and CheckROM install, the lag was gone.
I look forward to seeing some great development for this device.

dhruvmalik said:
The first thing I did was pop on CheckROM. On my SGS II, it was very stable.
I saw some lag with the stock rom, after a clean up and CheckROM install, the lag was gone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How does the Note with CheckROM compare to the GS2 with CheckROM?
Any room for improvement that another ROM could be better, or is it just a personal preference on looks?

Well, I was not a fan of Custom roms, I usually used to root and do the manual tweaks. But CheckROM / Custom Roms do that among other things like Deodex. This also optimizes the ROM for better performance and better battery.
I have not used any other ROM on the Note since I just got it yesterday. Also Kernels allow functionalities to extend support to BLN, Overclock / undervolt.
I think CheckROM on the SGS II was fantastic, and the CheckROM on the Note is also good, but the amount of support for the SGS II will obviously be larger than the Note.
I think you should try out a few large fan following roms to see which one suits you. For me, I like the option of Standby battery life, and CheckROM did the trick on the SGS II. We will wait and see how it works on the Note.
Give it a try.

PurpleMelbourne said:
I was kind of hoping for a longer explanation
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
As cyanogenmod 9 is still in its early stages (and I come from the nexus one, having used a sh*tload of roms) I really would like some advice on which Note rom to try. As far as this thread goes, I'm starting to believe the default rom is still the best... and if there are already some other roms worthwhile please let us know with a few lines of extra comment. Would be appreciated a lot!
Thx

Well, if you go to the Android Development section for the Galaxy Note, you will see that there are a few roms available.
Darky Rom
CheckROM
CM9 Experimental
and a few others.
Most of them are based upon Samsung's ROM with fixes / tweaks. Currently, thats the only way to mod and for the most part is stable.

I thought I would pitch in with my story on the Galaxy Note. Paid about $800 for a white unlocked Galaxy Note, shipped, on Amazon US. I was very impressed with the build quality, except for a sneakily creaky back panel. Fixed it with a little sticky note taped to the back cover. No micro-patterns on the back cover though, just plain old gloss. It was meant for Germany and came with the new KL7 kernel. I've had it for about 36 hours now. I tried atleast 3 different kernels, about 5 or so stock ROMs, and another 4 or so custom ROMs. I ran a whole lot of AnTuTu and found out that RocketROM + Abyss 3.5b had the best score of about 6900. All the stock ROMs i tried gave me about 5300 with CF-Root kernel. With Abyss stock ROMs gave me 5800. Not bad at all. Even after trying out all possible combinations, I was VERY disappointed. Even with all the cutting edge hardware, the overall experience was mediocre at best. Laggy in all the wrong places, including XDA wiki. So.. I was mad. I was about to give up on the Note for being a complete hype. But then I remembered how well cyanogenmod runs (still) on my HTC Magic and HTC HD2. So I downloaded the CM9 ICS alpha. It's about one fifth the size of any stock ROM. But boy oh boy. THIS is what the NOTE was made for. It's so snappy that sometimes I fall behind on it. lol. And it looks absolutely brilliant. Total eye candy. The HD Super AMOLED feels like it's gonna slap you in the face. The bluetooth and camera are not functional, but this is just too good to miss. USB mass storage is also gone. But you can always boot into clockworkmod and get on mass storage there. It does not, however, provide access to the microsd card. But if you absolutely have to, I have managed to get QtADB to work for file transfer. QtADB also lets you work with the microsd. Other than that the whole ICS experience is quite amazing. I ran GTA 3 on the ICS and it didn't perform as well as it did on Rocket + Abyss. But it's worth mentioning that 'Shadowgun', which is supposed to be optimized for Mali-400, ran very well. So, yeah, you guys GOT to give CM9 ICS a try. I am hopping ship right now because I won't have to worry about migrating to ICS after I have spent weeks on Gingerbread. I might as well get ICS now and use TitaniumBackup But I don't think there is ANY gingerbread ROM right now that can hold a candle to this supposed 'ALPHA' release. The one problem that has been bothering me though is that the music skips whenever I use the volume buttons. Happens only with earphones. But I can live with it
Edit - I just ran AnTuTu on it. Got a respectable 5700.
BTW, overclocking on the Abyss is very unstable. Always kept crashing, even with relatively small increments in clock speed.
---------- Post added at 02:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 PM ----------
Also... if anyone runs into graphical glitches in Music, there is an easy fix for it. Go to Settings-->Developer options-->'Force GPU rendering' and enable it.

dhruvmalik said:
Well, if you go to the Android Development section for the Galaxy Note, you will see that there are a few roms available.
Darky Rom
CheckROM
CM9 Experimental
and a few others.
Most of them are based upon Samsung's ROM with fixes / tweaks. Currently, thats the only way to mod and for the most part is stable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the feedback... have another question though, what ROM do you use and/or would recommend?
I love(d) CM7 on my Nexus One... and would love to try CM9, but the camera not working is just too big of drawback for me at the moment.
I guess judging by the view count that rocket rom is a good option... maybe I'll try that one first.

acidburn89 said:
I thought I would pitch in with my story on the Galaxy Note.. etc etc..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to second this. CM9, even in its current form, is leaps and bounds ahead of any of the GB ROM's. It really makes the Note feel like a new phone.
Missing S-Pen functionality and camera made me return to gingerbread, and I'm now running cassie's v6, which is great. I miss ICS on a daily basis though, and can't wait till it becomes my daily ROM.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using XDA App

OMG, great to hear CM is again being such an awesome ROM can't wait for the camera fix....
daxmedflax said:
I have to second this. CM9, even in its current form, is leaps and bounds ahead of any of the GB ROM's. It really makes the Note feel like a new phone.
Missing S-Pen functionality and camera made me return to gingerbread, and I'm now running cassie's v6, which is great. I miss ICS on a daily basis though, and can't wait till it becomes my daily ROM.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cassie's v6 > Rocket Rom in your opinion? if so I'll try that one first I guess

The Note is very nice but software let it down.
My prior SGS II was much snappier with miui on it.
I use Rocket ROM, it is ok but it cannot be compared with cm9 or miui.
I can't wait for one of these Roms to do justice to do to the Note.

Drane said:
+1
(and I come from the nexus one, having used a sh*tload of roms) I really would like some advice on which Note rom to try.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also came from the Nexus One so I know what you mean. Here the ROMs don't seem to fully replace the system the way it does on the N1. So if you get 5 phones, wipe them and install for example Rocket ROM on all of them, they could be different. You may have differences that result in overheat problems. Somehow a wipe is not a wipe.
I will be trying out Darky3.1, Alpha Never Dies, Chrack4.1, Cassies V7, CheckROM V5 and maybe Rocket V20
What I will be looking for firstly that each candidate does not cook my phone, second phone recording works, third smoothness and speed, and fourth pretty pictures.
On Nexus One it is easy. But strangely on the Note wierd battery drain and overheat problems can appear from a ROM and not be fixed by simply replacing it.
Voodoo.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium

PurpleMelbourne said:
I will be trying out Darky3.1, Alpha Never Dies, Chrack4.1, Cassies V7, CheckROM V5 and maybe Rocket V20
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would be AWESOME if you could post your findings on the various ROM's here. A single line of comment would be more then enough to make me (and perhaps a lot of other Note users too) happy. I'll do so too if I might start flashing some ROM's anytime soon.
Best wishes,
Jochen

Related

Poll: Stock, CM7 or other Custom Rom?

Got the idea from a post by a dev who thought that we wouldn't need the custom roms so much now that we have CM for the Atrix.
I slightly disagree with that and could bet a 5er that there's more people on other custom roms than on CM, at least for the Atrix and due to its "special" features.
(If I'm wrong the 5er will go to XDA)
EDIT: Seemingly (though numbers cannot always be trusted..) I was wrong. 10€ donated to XDA!
Stock ROM with BLUR frozen. I was having way too many problems with CM7 (like the pattern lock suddenly changed to pin lock on me, but I had no PIN set. ) I love CM7, but will wait to try it again when its finished. Plus the fingerprint scanner and webtop are just too useful to give up for me.
I definately would like to see a vanilla AOSP build.
Of course with the ability to retain fingerprint scanner and webtop functionality.
I just put CM7 on and i'm loving it. alien build 4 was cool and I'd love to have webtop back but it's not that important to me. My fingerprint scanner had been broken for a while and I don't know how to fix it so CM7 seems right fir me now
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Stock rooted. As a change of pace from my sgs2.
Sent from AT&T Galaxy S2
Definitely stock rooted/with most of motoblur frozen. Pciture sync is about the only thing i like about it.
But I don't like the look of stock gingerbread (or at least 'adw's stock' look on CM7, assuming the touchpad's CM7 has the same look as most CM7 releases - just too basic!)
I voted CM7 because thats the best rom availible today in terms of speed and features, but there's so much more that can be done with an AOSP code base. We need more non-blur ROMs before I would consider anything other than CM to be worth while.
Definitely CM7 but With Swype. CM7 is not final yet and it it's by far the smoothest ROM I have used on any phone. The camera ideas improved a lot flute some weird resin as my photos are no longer people, which was the czar with the stick ROMs. The only thing I Miss right note is the ability to use fingerprint scanner but one can't have everything in life....and patience is a virtue.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Give every rom a try, you will see that always you go back to CM7.
Most stable, fastest and top customization ability.
ofek said:
Give every rom a try, you will see that always you go back to CM7.
Most stable, fastest and top customization ability.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man, it's so different user by user.. I've tried CM7 three times in the last 2 months but I keep going away from it; battery is worse than on other roms to start with, go figure?! And it's not as "snappy" as other roms either. Stability is for me equal on all the roms I tried.
Will definitely try the next release as well though..
P. S. Check the attached, on The DarkSide. Battery started from 95%. OC'd to 1,3 Ghz and on constant browsing, market, XDA app through wifi. Can you get that on cm7, basically 4,5 hrs of screen time on a bit more than half a charge..?
Vangelis13 said:
Man, it's so different user by user.. I've tried CM7 three times in the last 2 months but I keep going away from it; battery is worse than on other roms to start with, go figure?! And it's not as "snappy" as other roms either. Stability is for me equal on all the roms I tried.
Will definitely try the next release as well though..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. I was starting to like CM7 on the atrix until it randomly changed the lock screen on me. I also had terrible battery life. I loved CM on the G-Tablet, and I love it on my friend's Droid X. I'm sure once the team is done I'll love it on the Atrix too.
Darkside V2.1, pretty stable and fast. Love the look on my SGS2 friend's face when my phone CF benchmarks better than his.
...Though I suspect it wont last long.
I'm on alien just because I haven't wanted to re-setup everything on my phone...once CM hits RC status I'll be on that for sure.
I'm still rockin stock Froyo be wise of the battery life reported on other options.
I'll probably make the jump to ICS if the version is stable...
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium
well stock was great before 2.3.4 update as far as the battery goes, the best up to date custom rom IMO is Homebase, next would be ninja's latest, but in this poll i would have to go with the CM7 beta, it's been flawless so far(3 days of testing) and i finally got my original battery life back(30+ hours) along with CM's features that i miss from my G1 days when CM first started....
CM7 is my daily driver, but I use the Darkside when I want to do webtop(or just want a change lol)
I have both as nandroid backups on my SD so all i have to do is backup my texts and any new apps i installed and flash between them..15 minutes to change at the most
I voted other rom though, since I still like having the option to do webtop
CM7 all the way. I don't need that BS fingerprint scanner or webtop. It's all useless to me.
Stock, rooted.
MUST HAVE WEBTOP.
the only way to future proof our atrix (at least for a year or two)
is to totally reject this ignoranamous
notion that cm7 or any rom is the end all be all rom
for our devices yes it is a great totally
custom ground up build i respect the time and effert that all the people took to build it ;
with that said we do need other roms too for the fact that maybe there are certain aspects that are not impemented into cm7 and cant be
i implore all the rom creators for the time they spend away from there familys to work on this "hobby"
futhermore yes we do need roms or Oc kernals for it ;
but should we expect it No.
alienv4 fauxv2.0/1.3+custom xfdesktop/xfce4-panel
Vangelis13 said:
Man, it's so different user by user.. I've tried CM7 three times in the last 2 months but I keep going away from it; battery is worse than on other roms to start with, go figure?! And it's not as "snappy" as other roms either. Stability is for me equal on all the roms I tried.
Will definitely try the next release as well though..
P. S. Check the attached, on The DarkSide. Battery started from 95%. OC'd to 1,3 Ghz and on constant browsing, market, XDA app through wifi. Can you get that on cm7, basically 4,5 hrs of screen time on a bit more than half a charge..?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seriously??? i've been through every rom, and CM7 has great battery life, along with Ninja and Homebase. Then again the problem may not be the rom, maybe your battery needs to be re-calibrated. That was the problem when i would go from rom to rom. For example i would flash ninja and have amazing battery life, then i tried homebase when it first was released, which the battery was also great, then after a while i went back to ninja and the battery life was horrible(barely got to 8 hours). After i did the steps to re-calibrate my battery, it was just as strong as it was on the day the phone was released(30+ hours), so that may have been the problem

Coming back from the Note

I will be returning back to my S2 (m250k) from the note. I had a few screen issues so I'll be getting a full refund from the vendor.
If anyone here is thinking about upgrading to the Note, feel free to ask questions. I'll provide any insight that I can.
Note experience (in comparison of having owned a S2):
N7000 stock.
Pros:
- Huge, beautiful screen
- Perfect phablet size, I never take my laptop home anymore
- Stylus and note taking is amazing
- Battery life, much much better
Cons (very subjective):
- Doesn't fit my lifestyle. I'm hardly home so I don't get to use it as a tablet as much as I'd like to
- Inconvenient to use as a phone/sms machine. On the s2 I can send texts with one hand extremely easily. Everything I can do with one hand. Note requires both hands most of the time. (Send button is on the very far right.. I use my left hand and my thumb can't reach it unless I'm risking dropping the phone.
- Hard to take it out of pocket when sitting down. I was thinking about buying a watch because I didn't want to check the time on my phone haha.
- Not a very good media player for use at the gym... too big
- Currently it seems 3rd party launchers (adw, go launcher, etc) are all laggier than stock TW. I'm sure this will be fixed in the future.
- Not sure if this is a pro or con, but getting used to this size makes other phones look like phones made for toddlers.
- Low quality videos are blocky. It looks like huge pixels of black on the screen.
I'm very surprised how big the S2 subforum is. This is the first time coming to this subforum although I've had the S2 for 6+ months. I rooted yesterday and tinkered with it a little yesterday and it feels like a brand new phone.
On another note, what are your favorite roms currently for the SG2? There are so many to choose from I don't know where to start. Currently rooted with lulz kernel for m250k e02.
Glad to be back.
Flash CM9, best ROM imo
Sent from my Galaxy S2 CM9 using Tapatalk
checkrom IMO..
Swyped from: GT-I9100
Sent using: XDA Premium App
If u want to stay on gingerbread.....flash checkrom....and if u wanna try ics...flash cm9....when i was using gb...i never changed my rom and kept using checrom....but since cm9 has released....there is no way m going bak to gb....cm9 is best out there right now....
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Hey welcome back to the S2 world
Well for me, I'm running on VillainROM 3.0 with SiyahKernel 2.6.4 and Pikachu's Thunderbolt script 2.3.5 - battery life is superb, signal reception is great, i can't complain... even if I got the twitch to try something else sometimes, I don't feel much like it because this phone steals the cake!!
Thanks everyone =).
Unfortunately I can't a kernel that doesn't support m250k due to my carrier (i'm in korea). So I'm currently using lulz korean kernel.
Noob question:
lulz kernel has a recovery built in, but it also has CMW recovery built in under -recovery- menu.
Which one am I supposed to use to flash the rom?
The S2 forum is so awesome, but I feel stupid and overwhelmed here haha.
Criskelo Rom is simply amazing, haven't tried CM9 but CM7 was terribly buggy, random reboots which doesn't sound all that bad but gets tedious eventually believe me, also hotspot problems and bluetooth problems as well. Criskelo has an abundance of modifications built in as well as option to change kernel and modem builds on the fly. Take a good look at the thread before you choose anything else, oh and don't bother with ICS leaked builds yet, its terrible, in fact its terrible on my wifes nexus s as well and that's official ota.
aigoya said:
Thanks everyone =).
Unfortunately I can't a kernel that doesn't support m250k due to my carrier (i'm in korea). So I'm currently using lulz korean kernel.
Noob question:
lulz kernel has a recovery built in, but it also has CMW recovery built in under -recovery- menu.
Which one am I supposed to use to flash the rom?
The S2 forum is so awesome, but I feel stupid and overwhelmed here haha.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Get kTool from the thread here and use it to reboot into kernel's own recovery and downloadmode (also you can back up EFS and dump kernel, a very handy tool!)

Comparisons between GB and ICS...What is your overall opinion so far?

Hey guys.
Must say for early stages ICS looks pretty sweet. Looking forward to the stable version by Codeworkx and team.
My opinion though is that i still find Gingerbread pretty solid and has all the features i need still. Yes ICS is still in early stages. But there are still few features that i can not leave without just yet. And plus battery life of course is a major issue for me so when kernel sources are released i am sure we shall see an influx of kernels to tackle the problem as it was in the early days of Gingerbread on our gorgeous phones.
Question here is...Do you guys find it worth the jump even on early stages or are you sticking with Gingerbread as it is still stable and you have all the features you can ask for till the gorgeous CM9 gets more stable? Also what would you like from Gingerbread to be on ICS
Thanks
The problem is I've already made the jump much earlier, and it's now unacceptable going back to GB..
Prasad007 said:
The problem is I've already made the jump much earlier, and it's now unacceptable going back to GB..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also made the jump but something made me come back to GB..I think it is still because the build is still in early stages and bugs and errors occur..Plus having the voodoo app now by Supercurio kinda makes me hold up a bit longer. Yes i know that is not a good enough reason but also battery life is a major one for me...
What i like to know in the new build of CM9 is it as smooth as people say it is when scrolling?
Neo3000 said:
I also made the jump but something made me come back to GB..I think it is still because the build is still in early stages and bugs and errors occur..Plus having the voodoo app now by Supercurio kinda makes me hold up a bit longer. Yes i know that is not a good enough reason but also battery life is a major one for me...
What i like to know in the new build of CM9 is it as smooth as people say it is when scrolling?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I'm most likely the wrong person to answer that, having come from the original SGS since only the last 2 days. And no, I don't think that it's not a good enough reason to revert to GB for Voodoo LOUDER when I'm actually giving it a fair thought of going back to the SGS1 for Voodoo Sound...
I dont know how to say it but ... ummmm but seriously (not trolling) i love the touch wiz ui
One thing just held me back. The video part. After it gets fixed i'll be transfering to cm9
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Well cyanogenmod 9 is stable enough for my tastes. And once media is fixed I think it's good enough
New multi tasking is sweet. But there are some nice addition here and there like a new voice system which I'm using now. Or do you mean
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk on cm9
anshmiester78900 said:
I dont know how to say it but ... ummmm but seriously (not trolling) i love the touch wiz ui
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't worry, there are plenty of people like you and me giggling at the various topics of stuttering paid alternative launchers, and buggy custom AOSP roms, but they are mostly silent.
I think its great they are there, because it can lead to new insights, but so far for me stock + TW + a mild Jkay-theme hit the sweet spot for almost everything this phone can do for me.
Opinion its a leaked test rom and not ICS release who knows what will change .
jje
Ive been trying out the cm9 alpha for a while now and am liking it. Got it setup virtually the same as my KK5 daily.
With cm9 I don't need voodoo louder and my a2dp streaming sounds better.
But.....
I could easily go back to KK5 odexed which I have setup the way I like it. Jkay mods, frozen apps, voodoo louder, etc.
I use go launcher ex, go sms pro and poweramp on both so mostly my user interface is the same.
Found since sgs1 that I like the 3rd party apps more than stock. Thats the beauty of android I guess.
Im ok with both as a daily so far.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
ephraim033 said:
One thing just held me back. The video part. After it gets fixed i'll be transfering to cm9
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 I watch YouTube vids on a daily basis lol. They have a done a great job with ICS so far though
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
I started using CM9 since the first build, which was very buggy, but its been my daily driver since then and I love it now, stable enough for everyday use (amazing for an alpha) and I already find it better than CM7, I can't go back to GB after updating lol, love the new UI, the only time I ran into a problem was when I wanted to see football highlights last night but can't watch the video =D other that tho I love ICS, can't wait for a full and stable release! Highly recommend it! I found I don't need as many 3rd party apps, don't use widget locker or go launcher or go contacts etc anymore, the only one I use now is go SMS pro.
Sent from my Galaxy S2 running CM9 from Xda Premium, please thank me if I help you
eamon0989 said:
I started using CM9 since the first build, which was very buggy, but its been my daily driver since then and I love it now, stable enough for everyday use (amazing for an alpha) and I already find it better than CM7, I can't go back to GB after updating lol, love the new UI, the only time I ran into a problem was when I wanted to see football highlights last night but can't watch the video =D other that tho I love ICS, can't wait for a full and stable release! Highly recommend it! I found I don't need as many 3rd party apps, don't use widget locker or go launcher or go contacts etc anymore, the only one I use now is go SMS pro.
Sent from my Galaxy S2 running CM9 from Xda Premium, please thank me if I help you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here. ICS is very good and I urge all to give CM9 a try. Of course we cannot mod, theme etc.. at this stage but to be frank there is no need to. Great sensible UI coupled with a very smooth and snappy scrolling and other animations makes it a perfect ROM for a common user. If you are too much into theming, tweaking etc.. stay away from CM9 at the moment until a stable one comes out.
Not much of a battery drain also. Maybe 10% more than stock GB.
ICS KP8
CM9
No thanks no advantage over what i have at present .
Yes to supposed specs when ICS is actually released .
jje
I tested for 2 days the ICS and I must say that the samsung team it's on the good way. ICS will be a wonderful OS to run on SGS2. They still have a lot of bugs to fix, but there are just leaks. We must wait for some official releases.
At the moment you can use ICS just to explore some of the goodies that will be present in the future for our phones. We will have to keep gingerbread for a while
Personally, I want to see the weather on lockscreen fully implemented in the next builds
theres no real ICS for SGS2 right?How could we compare?
we still need to go through 2.3.7 am i right?
No, i find cm7 better than cm9 for now
Personally I don't find ICS the revolutionary change that some people were hyping around. It's an improvement, but not super.
And +1 to the people who mentioned the media part. Once it's fixed I might go to CM9.
And frankly I don't find Trebechet launcher on CM9 smoother than Touchwiz on Gingerboard :/
dzel said:
theres no real ICS for SGS2 right?How could we compare?
we still need to go through 2.3.7 am i right?
No, i find cm7 better than cm9 for now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am totally agree with Dzel.
Since ICS alpha(not even beta) version. its no good to compare stable GB version.
Again CM9 is much better than CM7.
I am running cm9 as my daily now as most remaining issues are not so important.
I was before on cm7 with Siyah kernel, and honestly, everything was really running smooth. I do not see any big improvment in ICS, and in that point, I am a litle disapointed.
I will stick to cm9 as ICs is now the developped OS, but I was waiting for more big changes from Google.
A litle bit like diff between OSX 10.3, .4, .5 etc etc. No real big changes.

Buying Nexus S 2nd hand, tips and things to look for?

I'm picking up a 1 yr old Nexus S. What are the things I should look for - other than obvious physical damage?
And the model I'll get is i9023 - does that model have any problems wrt custom ROM support etc? Or do all ROMs work for both i9020a/t and i9023?
Former Galaxy S2 owner here, so please let me know your Nexus S-specific tips, and fav ROM+kernel combo (prioritizing good battery life).
Also, any slim extended battery(not the ones with bulky extra rear plate) you recommend?
first of all, look for some scratches.
ROMs work with the 9023, too.
well, test it out.
Every ROM I've tried has given me pretty much the same exact screen on time if I really use the phone heavily( almost 4 hours on a good day). This phone doesn't have phenomenal life compared to other phones I've had, but I can make it through a normal work day. No one ROM fits everybody and you're honestly better off searching and experimenting(the joys of having a Nexus device!).
If you're looking for just a stock ROM with a few tweaks here and there, Bugless Beast may be what you're looking for, or Crossbones IIRC. Customizations, which is what Android is all about, you may be better looking at Cyanogenmod, AOKP, Codename Android(CNA), and a crap ton of others.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1171
As for the phone's problems, eh, I had an issue with my microphone. Not sure what was exactly wrong with it. I think the noise screen was messing something up or it was dirty. I ended up opening my phone and cleaning the piece. That was the only problem with mine(got it secondhand too). These phones also have an issue with their power buttons, so make sure that's good before you commit, although there are fixes on here for that. Make sure the phone is legit and not stolen I guess. lol.
Umm how to check for stolen phones?
Anyway the guy I'm getting it from works at a Samsung office itself, so I guess it is not quite as risky as the usual stranger-in-an-ally thing...
Quite few here, had problems with power button.
sumeshpremraj said:
Umm how to check for stolen phones?
Anyway the guy I'm getting it from works at a Samsung office itself, so I guess it is not quite as risky as the usual stranger-in-an-ally thing...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess if you were to try to activate it, it would let the person at the desk know. I forgot to add, kernels and governors will effect the battery life along with screen brightness(duh). I prefer ondemand over anything else.
Will experiment kernels, governor etc, I was changing ROMs daily until I found a good combo when I had the S2.
What were you saying about the 'desk'? This is an unlocked phone, so I'm not sure if even activation is required (didn't have any on my previous unlocked phones).
Oh, and any specific brand of extended batteries (specifically those with same dimensions as the original) you'd recommend?
See if don´t have any problems of lost IMEI...
Make sure the power button is in good shape, nice and clicky. These things are notorious for power button failures, and let me tell you it sucks
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
Will check for power button, saw quite a few threads re the infamous button failure.
How do I check if the phone is stolen, any website to look up IMEI? I'll check if IMEI in settings and on the box matches.
@sumeshpremraj
How much did you get it for? (INR)
whats up with box and all accessories?
Even I am planning to get one used.
abrarabbu said:
@sumeshpremraj
How much did you get it for? (INR)
whats up with box and all accessories?
Even I am planning to get one used.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
13k INR, including box and accessories (no warranty left).
I personally think all custom ROMs are crap and do the same one way another
The only ROMs useful are:
Codename Android
Cyanogenmod
MIUI (http://www.miuiandroid.com) > they have multi language
Pete's Bugless ROM
But I found all ICS ROMs having a certain issue with the Nexus S with my messaging application crashing. That's why I went with MIUI. It was the only ICS based ROM not crashing.
The best kernel is Air Kernel for Nexus S. The rest is significantly slower. With stock ICS you won't notice much difference. But with resource-heavy MIUI it's plain noticeable
It's possible the bug I mentioned is fixed in latest ICS releases. I haven't looked.
djjonastybe said:
I personally think all custom ROMs are crap and do the same one way another
The only ROMs useful are:
Codename Android
Cyanogenmod
MIUI (http://www.miuiandroid.com) > they have multi language
Pete's Bugless ROM
But I found all ICS ROMs having a certain issue with the Nexus S with my messaging application crashing. That's why I went with MIUI. It was the only ICS based ROM not crashing.
The best kernel is Air Kernel for Nexus S. The rest is significantly slower. With stock ICS you won't notice much difference. But with resource-heavy MIUI it's plain noticeable
It's possible the bug I mentioned is fixed in latest ICS releases. I haven't looked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the detailed reply, I understood as much about custom ROMs in my time on Galaxy S2.
I'll be trying Boot to Gecko first, just for the heck of it, then MIUI, bugless beast, CNA and CM9 in that order.
Thought of trying Matr1x, Trinity etc. but will add Air to the list of kernels.
Got the Nexus S 12 hrs ago, power button is fine so I remapped power off to search key and made volume buttons awake it.
Tried Bugless beast, slimICS, CM9 and settled on the latter. Have to try out Boot to Gecko, Jelly Bean and MIUI v4 when I get time later this weekend.
Still don't have an slim extended battery, but I'm happy with the battery life so far that I'm having second thoughts on buying one.
Glad you like it. Enjoy! Happy flashing! :beer:
Sent from my Nexus S using xda premium
Yep that's the reason why I moved to Nexus S (after getting frustrated about lack of stable ICS ROMs on S2 back in the day)...
Basically reiterating what everyone else has said. I also got my Nexus S 2nd hand and I've had it for about 6 months now (coming from a nexus one) and I love it, other than I miss the trackball (I know I'm strange) for waking and LED purposes. Power button being clicky is a must. Obvious scratch marks, etc.
I've played around with many ROMS in my 6 months with my Nexus S. (Codename, Bugless, AOKP, CM9) After trying CM9 RC1 just recently for about 2-3 weeks, I finally just gave in and came back to AOKP (now build 40) and am loving it right now. AOKP just has really nice style, especially with this mod/theme. (thanks mixtapes)
Kernels: I love Voodoo sound/color, it really makes the phone both look beautiful and sound amazing, especially if you have good headphones/speakers. BLN (Back Light Notification) is a must for me as well in a kernel. I really like matr1x right now, tried air kernel few builds back and it was also nice.
Hope this helps Can't wait for JB.
Cheers.
Make sure the GPS works. I bought a second hand one and the GPS was faulty.

Movement Back to GingerBread

So after having been running ICS roms for the past 2 months or so, I decided to switch back to my favorite Gingerbread rom for the hell of it, to see exactly what I'd been giving up for ICS. And WOW, was I blown away. I remember GB was a lot faster than ICS, but geez I did not remember it being this fast. EVERYTHING opens and closes quicker, touch responsiveness is amazing, screens swipe lightning quick, and I'm sorry, even though I did realize ICS improved battery life a little bit from my initial impressions, GB is giving me better battery life than most of the ICS roms I have used. Most importantly to me though, my phone has simply just become more of a joy to use. And less of CHORE. ICS makes texting a pain in the ass. And not only that, but basically doing anything, browsing, having to constantly re-press anything, scrolling.......omg scrolling. Going down your facebook newsfeed is definitely a chore on ICS. Seeing as it goes up a little, half the time you scroll down. But typing is probably the biggest thing for me, since I text a decent amount. I even installed the same GB keyboard I'd used on gingerbread roms (it's a modified stock gb keyboard called "gingerbread keyboard") which I had been able to type so quick and so accuretly with (except for the occasional double letter that the keyboard puts in), but on ICS it was just as inaccurate as any other crap keyboard I'd try out. You just have to type slowwwww, and press hard. Who the hell wants to use their phone like an old person? I sure don't. ICS makes my phone a chore to use.
I'm looking to get some other impressions here, and from both sides (mostly ICS fans, if you don't mind), and just get an overall consensus of what the deal is. I knew I'd missed GB, but I didn't realize it was this much!
Things I'd be missing from ICS: brightness minimum and maximum (having a lower min is really appreciated in my room at night - some later GB roms have this implemented though), the updated Gallery (soo much better on ICS), some features that are nice to have but I don't really change anyway (screen mode, gamma sensitivity, etc.), Chome (LOL jk, chrome sucks **** on mobile), better default video player, having my phone say 4.03, 4.04, or 4.1.1 that's about it. Lemme know some other things you'd miss from ICS if you were to revert back.
Also, I have tried most roms for ICS, ranging from AOKP, AOSP based roms, CM9, Sammywiz ones, MIUI variations. Just for reference, I've tried Shishir, Ressurection AOKP, Foxhound's roms, Basically all of Kaffee's roms, cMIUI, RGUI, AdyScorp's V4, AOKP official, Rootbox, etc. My favorite of those personally was probably Ressurection, and cMIUI. Not a huge fan of AOKP (or the wole CM interface), so cMIUI a bit more.
Btw, the GB rom I'm referring to is AdyScorpius' MIUI GB. Fastest rom I've ever used, period. Battery life from what I remember was not even that good (I mean it's MIUI) even compared to other MIUI's. So considering that I'm noticing it to be on par, if not better than ICS I was running, is noteworthy.
Lay your comments down below.
EDIT: Oh and I've tried a few JB roms already, including CM10, Kaffee's CM10, and X-treme's CM10 based rom. To be honest it's really smooth (coming from ICS though), however it's wayyy too early in the game to compare it to GB for me. To be quite honest, it's really smooth and relatively fast, but since it's still based on ICS, I doubt it will ever feel as good as GB.
I do agree but i got used to ICS and the little problems bundled with it. When samsung decides to update our phones to JB, i hope it'll be a different story
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
VanillaCracker said:
So after having been running ICS roms for the past 2 months or so, I decided to switch back to my favorite Gingerbread rom for the hell of it, to see exactly what I'd been giving up for ICS. And WOW, was I blown away. [...] I'm looking to get some other impressions here, and from both sides (mostly ICS fans, if you don't mind), and just get an overall consensus of what the deal is. I knew I'd missed GB, but I didn't realize it was this much!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I'm not an pure ICS fan - both versions have their advantages - but I like CM, AOSP and MIUI - and Samsungs camera app. As almost everything here at XDA and other boards is about ICS and now JB I have not expected someone coming up with a thread like this, thanks
I must admit reverting to a 2.6.9 GB MIUI (external link to Fluxi's MIUI GB thread) quite often, too - It somehow just "feels" better than any ICS ROM I tried so far (only 2 months \w I9100, i9000 before, always working on kernels) - touch sensitivity and wakeup lag definately are two reasons for me, too. Battery seems to be almost equal to me.
I'm still looking for "the" firmware, currently testing MIUI 2.7.27 which seems to work quite well, too. But I have a feeling that I'll switch back to GB tonight...
Read in another thread you posted that the WIUI dev might update the GB version, may I ask where you have that information from? Interesting.
Gingerbread was far better than ICS from a raw performance standpoint, i was 100 and 1% happy with the way my phone performed with GB and then i flashed to ICS and got used to extra features (and im the kind of person that doesn't like to be behind the curve).
If google had ported all of the new functionality to GB along with some of the work they did with project butter we would have a MUCH MUCH better platform than we are currently stuck with.
Having a device that doesn't respond the way you would expect to touch input and has noticeable jank and lag in this day and age is NOT acceptable when you have the likes WP7 and iOS out there.
Time is running out Google (& to a degree Samsung) , I've been an Android user since the G1 and 3 devices on my patience is growing short.
We already had these kind of threads before
i will downgrade to 2.3.3 if there isn't a newer 2.3.x of Nee which i believe there is but i ain't finding them
i downgrading due to lockscreen stopped work on Stock ICS but it seems to be working on gingerbread
The only reason why I am on ics is that I can not connect to my college's wifi network... On ics wifi works fine...
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda app-developers app
I downgraded from ics back to GB 2.3.4 due to ics bugs, lag on the touch screen (sometimes felt like a resistive screen) jerky swipes between home screens, black screen of death, random shut down and disappearing widgets. Like the op says, GB was a revelation again and the galaxy feels reliable, responsive and fast again. I'm staying put now till next year when my contact ends, I came from iPhone to android and maybe it will be wp8 next, or maybe a galaxy s3.....
I miss the face unlock, swipe to dismiss notifications and the task manager of ics, that's about all
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda app-developers app
ephraim033 said:
I do agree but i got used to ICS and the little problems bundled with it. When samsung decides to update our phones to JB, i hope it'll be a different story
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm hoping the same thing man haha. But honestly I'm not having my hopes up anymore. I know that the CM10 preview builds don't have HW Accelerator working, and that the sensitivity does seem a bit better than ICS (more in the 'ok-eh' category instead of 'bad' like ICS), but I've seen a couple builds that claim to have HW Acceleration working, so if that makes a drastic improvement we'll see. Honestly I thought when ICS came out that it was just early in developemnt and that they'd work out the jags and stuff....yeah no. It's 3 months later and performance-wise it's relatively similar. AOKP has gotten much smoother though, but there's only so much you can do.
mialwe said:
Well, I'm not an pure ICS fan - both versions have their advantages - but I like CM, AOSP and MIUI - and Samsungs camera app. As almost everything here at XDA and other boards is about ICS and now JB I have not expected someone coming up with a thread like this, thanks
I must admit reverting to a 2.6.9 GB MIUI (external link to Fluxi's MIUI GB thread) quite often, too - It somehow just "feels" better than any ICS ROM I tried so far (only 2 months \w I9100, i9000 before, always working on kernels) - touch sensitivity and wakeup lag definately are two reasons for me, too. Battery seems to be almost equal to me.
I'm still looking for "the" firmware, currently testing MIUI 2.7.27 which seems to work quite well, too. But I have a feeling that I'll switch back to GB tonight...
Read in another thread you posted that the WIUI dev might update the GB version, may I ask where you have that information from? Interesting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really appreciate your comments, especially coming from someone who has experience with kernels, it gives the whole discussion a little more validity. Wake lag is definitely annoying, honestly that's one of those things that by itself, you would think could be dismissed, but when added to the touch sensitivty, and sluggishness, just makes you think..what the hell.
Btw I was actually looking at WIUI last night by chance and also saw that he actually is updating his GB version. I had to re-read it a few times to make sure I wasn't mistaken. He's got a 6.29 version out, and in the comments he said he would do 8.4 (around there). I'll probably flash that, as my April GB rom is probably really outdated....hah.
sabianadmin said:
Gingerbread was far better than ICS from a raw performance standpoint, i was 100 and 1% happy with the way my phone performed with GB and then i flashed to ICS and got used to extra features (and im the kind of person that doesn't like to be behind the curve).
If google had ported all of the new functionality to GB along with some of the work they did with project butter we would have a MUCH MUCH better platform than we are currently stuck with.
Having a device that doesn't respond the way you would expect to touch input and has noticeable jank and lag in this day and age is NOT acceptable when you have the likes WP7 and iOS out there.
Time is running out Google (& to a degree Samsung) , I've been an Android user since the G1 and 3 devices on my patience is growing short.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you that it probably would have made a lot more people happy had they stuck with a thoroughly upgraded GB instead of making a new platform. However although ICS sucks performance-wise (interface, anyway), it is actually pretty good in terms of efficiency. If you notice while restoring text messages or installing something via titanium backup, or shutting off your phone, things run quicker on ICS. ICS is more efficient, for sure. Which is why I hate even more how it is, because it has potential but for some reason still just completely sucks.
I'm gonna have to rant on google: *these are new thoughts just realized a minute ago* Google is definitely behind the ball in terms of what they're releasing. Google has always been out of touch with the people[/B. I'm only 20 but I was able to pick this up over the last couple years. They suck at knowing what people want, or at least are too hung up with their own projections that they don't see the people in which they're serving. You can tell google doesn't know what they're doing because you see it in everything they do. Example 1) Changing Android Market to Google Play Store. Obviously, there are plenty of reasons for them to do that (main probably being to get their name out - not everyone knows android is google based, and also to put all their apps into one [google music, google books, ect]), but they could have done that without changing the name to something EVERYONE HATES. Example 2) Google chrome (desktop). I use Chrome on my home PC. It's really fast. Other than that, I hate everything about it. The interface is styled, but looks like it was organized by an amateur, and is poorly structured. Functinoality is splintered and not well thought out. Firefox beats it in every single category, except for performance. Wish I could go back to firefox. Example 3) Chrome (Mobile), this app is unstable, and probably the slowest browser on the market...and yet it is the only video playing browser available on JB (no flash anymore)... Firefox BETA is 300% more stable than chrome's Non Beta app.
GB was fine, but ICS's regression is total bull (and I'm not talking to official update - samsung), and honestly as mentioned above it is just debasing them for the future. Honestly, I had an itouch for a couple years, and have used countless friends iphones over the years, so I know what it's like. Just the simple fact that going back to MIUI GB has made me the happiest I've been in a while...is saying something. I hate to be the ass who brings up negative things, but if they had been doing things right in the first place, things wouldn't have to be mentioned. I'm not too picky, but I do demand quality. Although I've never even considered it in the past, I'm looking forward to seeing what they're rolling out for the iphone 5, cus it may actually make a difference in my next phone.
sahibunlimited said:
We already had these kind of threads before
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I saw one, but it does not discuss the same thing..it meerly has the same subject. This thread heads in a much different direction, also the former post is outdated with the progression of ICS currently.
LastStandingDroid said:
i will downgrade to 2.3.3 if there isn't a newer 2.3.x of Nee which i believe there is but i ain't finding them
i downgrading due to lockscreen stopped work on Stock ICS but it seems to be working on gingerbread
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You may find one! I know finding official releases past 4.x.x is hard. WIUI is pulling from somewhere though, I know that. Could be it's all just his own input.
Dark Emotion said:
The only reason why I am on ics is that I can not connect to my college's wifi network... On ics wifi works fine...
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know ICS has better range for WIFI, other than that I don't know the actual differences.
*Sorry for long post*
It is not the range, it is wpa2 thing...
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda app-developers app
Oh no!! This thread is killing me for going back to Gb. Damn damn damn....
Sliding answering options, fantastic lockscreen, system wide font synchronization, what more I am missing....God knows....!!
i never use GB on my phone it came with ICS out of box but i want to try it, stock and custom just wanna see how different it is performance wise.
ithehappy said:
Oh no!! This thread is killing me for going back to Gb. Damn damn damn....
Sliding answering options, fantastic lockscreen, system wide font synchronization, what more I am missing....God knows....!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol I hope you're not trolling. Honestly I doubt GB has much of anything that ICS doesn't have. Except ICS option menu is dumb (although samsung's gb is RETARDED), and GB has more simple, intuitive button layout (delete, menu key layout, etc.)
heavens dragon said:
i never use GB on my phone it came with ICS out of box but i want to try it, stock and custom just wanna see how different it is performance wise.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I mean if you haven't rooted yet you're definitely missing out on like 50+ roms to try. There's plenty of different categories and types. You'll probably be amazed when you flash one of the latest (or last) GB build roms. They're blazing. Ady MIUI is like iOS on steroids. Cept the battery is meh. That's the only problem. And of course GB seems outdated now, but it's still got higher usability, imo. Part of what kills ICS is it takes so much longer for you to do things on your phone. I bet it drives up screen on time
VanillaCracker said:
Lol I hope you're not trolling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whatever I do, I'll never troll.
after brick my phone with the so called chip bug and change the mb after paying 100 with the same chip with a bug, flashing XWLPO and then XWLPT I decided to go back to 2.3.4. My battery last +2 days (everything disabled and underclocked) and everything looks smooth enogh for me. If you want a cool interface like ICS has (I see no reason at all to run ICS other than the interface) just install the free version of Go Launcher
Yeah I mean if you haven't rooted yet you're definitely missing out on like 50+ roms to try. There's plenty of different categories and types. You'll probably be amazed when you flash one of the latest (or last) GB build roms. They're blazing. Ady MIUI is like iOS on steroids. Cept the battery is meh. That's the only problem. And of course GB seems outdated now, but it's still got higher usability, imo. Part of what kills ICS is it takes so much longer for you to do things on your phone. I bet it drives up screen on time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no my phone is rooted and i already flashed custom roms for more then 10 times( all ics expect 2 latest build of cmx) not a big fan of ios looks but im looking forward to try out other gb roms, but im keep coming back to stock based roms just b'coz of camera and that is wht i really want to see in stock gb : camera
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ithehappy said:
Whatever I do, I'll never troll.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good to hear it :good:
heavens dragon said:
no my phone is rooted and i already flashed custom roms for more then 10 times( all ics expect 2 latest build of cmx) not a big fan of ios looks but im looking forward to try out other gb roms, but im keep coming back to stock based roms just b'coz of camera and that is wht i really want to see in stock gb : camera
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh I gotcha. Yeah honestly stock camera blows all the other cameras away. Stock ICS camera is pretty decent too, but the button on stock gb is the best. feels more secure, and focus is instantaneous with press. MIUI (GB) is decent too except I found the quality a little worse and instant focus a little less accurate. Anti-shake is terrible on MIUI camera too.
Wow GB. Amazing memories .I think the best GB was XXKI4. But what can I know... I had GB for 2 or 3 months since this year's winter and then Boom! Boot loop. You know why guys?? I had brand XWKI4 and there were battery mods for XXKI4.So I flashed those ;p. And then came XXLPS.Now I am on LQ7 but It's not the same. Thanks bro I was waiting for man wich will lead me to GB. BTW first rom for SGS2 is XWKDD so?! Coman guys we have Gingerbread to flash
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can someone link the "best" (in his eyes) gb roms ?
i would love to try a few if they are really faster than ics (smoother).
was so close to try cm10 but so much stuff needs to be fixed...
for me the most important thing would be cam and a smooth feeling.
and can i use nova launcher prime on gb (is it looking the same?)
i never tried gb (my s2 came with ics, so....)
I haven't used GB since I got my S2, but I used it exclusively on my original S. When I moved from phone to phone I found the speed increase of GB on an S to ICS on my S2 simply mind blowing. I know it's nearly a 200% processor boost, but still. Now I'm using JellyBean. I get a full day of near constant use with an extended battery. (I'm a teen, we text all the time, so it gets a pretty heavy workout.) and the speed BLOWS AWAY Gingerbread and ICS without question.
So no, I don't miss it personally. And I'm using SwiftKey, which is an absolute dream. Way better than any stock kb I've ever used.
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