Related
Hello all
As a relatively new user of the G1 it raised some questions in my mind about its design.
The thing is that all the exciting things are there but some basic things are missing.
First did the designers intention was to enable only English speaking users to use it? Why there is no built in multi language support? Even if the user itself speak English but he is a Japanese and wants to comunicate with friends and relatives not speaking English - he can not.
Second - did the designers realy thought that 256MB of internal memory will not run out of space very quickly, when the whole idea of the phone with the Market is to download applications for it? Why not give the user to choose where to install the application at the installation time? It is like that on my Nokia E65.
What about all the trivial little things that I was so sure they are there, that I did not bother to ask about them, things like choosing where user data - like contacts etc - will be saved, copying the contacts and other user data to the SD card weather or from the SD card to backup or restore them. Again my Nokia has it and it is basic function on any Hand Held device.
When you mount the phone on a PC what do they have to hide when showing only the SD card content?
What is the result - talented people here and else where like JF are trying to Hack/Fix/Go around all these flaws in the design - and realy doing a great job - instead of focusing on developing new and exciting applications for us the users of the phone.
Does any body have an explanation for these design flaws?
Have a good day and thanks to all the developers out there fixing the designers poor design (at least on some basic functionality).
Ophir
New os, first device running the os, they just wanted to present something. The first car ever produced sucked too, it just happens.
ophirb said:
When you mount the phone on a PC what do they have to hide when showing only the SD card content?
Ophir
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When you mount the phone to the PC, it only mounts the SDcard. No ones hiding anything, but if you're using a stock G1 then thats all you really have access to anyways, and thats prolly the way google intended it, considering the OS is open source, so im sure while android was being developed they couldnt figure the need to hack a device thats already open source. So why would they make it to where any everyday user can just hook up the phone, delete the whole system "accidently", and then have a $400 brick? Cuz you know thats what everybody would do if they could...theyd go deleting things that they dont know what the hell they even do, then go whining to google or tmobile when their phone is ruined. Who wants to shell out all the money to replace all the phones that were bought by complete and utter MORONS who will settle for nothing less than to go messing with stuff they dont understand until they've rendered their phone completely USELESS? Not me, and surely not google, either. So if you want to have the phone mount the whole system, then make your own build and add that functionality. Thats the beauty of an open source platform, they made it SAFE FOR ALL USERS, and then advanced users who actually know what theyre doing can change it any way they want. So dont complain about the way android was released because it is, by no means, a finished product. So if you dont like it, CHANGE IT. Or pay someone else to change it for you. Whatever. But the point and the beauty of this OS is that YOU CAN change it, you arent just stuck with ****ty functionality, you can change whatever you want to make your device do whatever you want. Dont just sit around crying about the current state of android...get out there and make it better, for yourself, for all of us, or accept it the way it is and leave it alone.
-BMFC
Mine is multilingual... Under regional settings I change the language to spanish.
RSchmauk said:
Mine is multilingual... Under regional settings I change the language to spanish.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ditto. Even though the hardware keyboard is English, there are plenty of alternative Virtual Keyboards on the market that have multi-language support, including middle-eastern and Asian ones.
Re: 256MB int memory... That's a huge "WTF" in my book. This phone should've had HTC Hero's specs of 512MB RAM and 256MB ROM.
Installing apps to SD card can be accomplished with custom ROMs. For everything else - "there's an app for that".
Keep in mind that Android is still in its infancy. As the OS and SDK mature, you will see all those features, and many more.
CBowley said:
New os, first device running the os, they just wanted to present something. The first car ever produced sucked too, it just happens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your saying the Ford Model A sucks? haha
What Should have been
The first car though did have four wheels an engine a steering wheel etc all teh BASIC stuff where there.
Today we have all the other goodies AC, ABS, Stereo etc.
In the G1 it is like they started with the goodies and left the basic out.
Since the OS is open source it can be modified, but if installing a modified ROM, it voids the warrenty.
So if you spent a lot of money buying the G1 discovered these flaws in the design and wants to rectify it by using a modified ROM you loose your warrenty.
Bare in mind that this is not a cheap device and so is expected to perform and have MORE functionality then a cheap device.
I whould not even bring all this up if it was a cheap device.
ophirb said:
Since the OS is open source it can be modified, but if installing a modified ROM, it voids the warrenty.
So if you spent a lot of money buying the G1 discovered these flaws in the design and wants to rectify it by using a modified ROM you loose your warrenty.
B
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could always just flash with stock firmware and perform a hard reset.
Don't get me wrong, in general I like it, it is just that it seems to me careless not to include those basic features. They, as a professional designers should be able to figure out the design better and it is not that they did not have anything to rely on, many smart phones are out there to learn the good and the bad from.
ophirb said:
it voids the warrenty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you come up with THAT nonsense?
If you change the software and the LCD quits, the LCD is STILL under warranty.
There are zero in the Marketplace.
Is there some kind of technical limitation of Android that prevents this most rudimentary of features of a computing device with a screen? I just don't get it at all. It can't be that nobody has asked for one. So there must be a limitation of Android that prevents a screenshot from being generated?
REQUEST: Can anyone write an app that solves this? I think there were would be great demand.
I think if it was possible, there would be one by now. Most likely it's not.
It can't be that nobody has asked for one. So there must be a limitation of Android that prevents a screenshot from...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you answered your own question; )
In order to take a screen print, data from the video RAM must be extracted. root access is required for this.
Sent from my HTC Desire using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
Yeah, you can pretty much rule out anything that requires direct access to hardware. Hardware access is limited to what is accessible via APIs. By the look of it, that does not include access to the video RAM. There are many other things (flashlight for example) which, although they seem simple, are not included in the standard APIs and therefore are not possible without root access to the device.
bcmobile said:
Yeah, you can pretty much rule out anything that requires direct access to hardware. Hardware access is limited to what is accessible via APIs. By the look of it, that does not include access to the video RAM. There are many other things (flashlight for example) which, although they seem simple, are not included in the standard APIs and therefore are not possible without root access to the device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you. I'm not a developer so I didn't know these limitations existed. This OS has developed so fast -- less than 2 years old... and yet, I would have thought this kind of thing would have been handled long ago, just from end-user expectation: "I can print-screen" or screen grab on my full size computer, so i probably can screen grab from my hand held computer.
But re flashlight -- maybe there is one specific function/app you are referring to, but on my Hero, unrooted, thru the Market, i must have downloaded and tried about 6 different flashlights, all with basic function of using the white light of the screen as a light source... some that enabled you to change the color of the screen to blue, red, etc... One even has this cop-car alternating red-blue flashing light display.
I am probably misunderstanding you though.
I think ultimately I am just surprised certain things are not further along -- and it's a stark contrast to a thread I was just visiting way across the other side of the XDA forums universe -- called WP7 - epic fail --- in which many die hard WM developers lament the passing of an OS that gave amazing levels of access to devs, yet the UI of the OS itself was beyond dated, it was dysfunctional and impractical in today's world.
It's just interesting to read the perspectives of developers touting Symbian as the most open OS and most efficient (less battery drain) -- and last I knew I thought it was being killed off. Wrong again.
I'm extremely happy with Android -- but then there are these few blindspots where I have to say -- wow -- i could do THAT 5 years ago on my old T-Mobile MDA WM 5x phone ... like 100%-reliable voicetags for phone calling contacts, opening apps etc, vs speech recognition, ... like the abilities the resistive screen gave me in drawing elaborate sketch at a meeting -- or my being able the take really quick notes with -- yes -- a stylus -- not an alltogether stupid idea -- and have a 90% success rate at character recognition and conversion to text ... the precision of controlling a color slider bar on a resistive screen --- i understand that's not OS but screen properties -- but I am just collectively observing that while I absolutely loved my HERO, and now am discovering my DESIRE, there are still some very basic things I can't do with allegedly the best smartphone in the marketplace.
I'm very agnostic about hardware and software, never been a fanboy -- I'm a usability designer... so functionality rules, end users rule. And basic things like this -- a screenshot -- they may be very explainable by devs... And my question may sound like it's very annoying to some, and I'm just a dumb **** (not you, you were respectful), but I think, as a end user advocate, it's pretty stupid -- and seems senseless to me that this phone can do 1001 backflips with video, and yet it can't let me "record" what I see on my screen. I get it that it's not yet released by Google, but they're who I'm calling stupid for not solving something so elementary by now.
I have every right to say this without any android architecture knowledge.
I can see your point, but in all modern operating systems, there is no direct hardware control, for any purpose, no matter how benevolent the purpose might be.
This is done only through api programming and libraries of calls, which are also restricted most of the time.
The reason is simple and can be summarized to one word, security.
As phones are becoming more and more capable of doing sensitive activities like online banking transactions and on top of that hold every personal info one has,
security will become an even greater concern.
Windows so far, have been the least secure platform for every day use to date. This is also true for windows mobile.
I know it looks like you are getting less usability than you did, but at least in this case its not just to inflate someone's wallet with extra money, through proprietorial lock down of services and apis, which would be "opened" at a later date for some more cash.
I m sure that in no time we ll be seeing full blown firewalls and antivirus suites for superphones like the desire.
All it will take is a few more viruses-trojans targeting mobile platforms like jailbroken iphones or rooted android devices.
I guess the same limitations are to be blamed for not having a proper voice recorder, i.e. one that can record both parts of a phone conversation.
reason you arent getting a non root screenshot app(if memory serves correctly):
the screenshot app takes a dump of the display file in /dev/ and then uses image processing to output a jpg/png/whatever. At the momment we can see the contents of /dev/ with (adb shell ls /dev/) but any attempt to read/write/copy (adb pull /dev/lightsensor ./lightsensor)(yes i know that is the light sensor but couldnt remember what the display file was called) anything is met with a "permission denied".
Hello to all XDA developers and chefs
Before giving this idea i would like to introduce myself I'm a new programing student interested in the Java programing language, also interested in mobile programing. I've already tried searching for this idea and as far as my research went there has been none like this.
Here it goes
-Everyone know how much of a pain it is for several people to use the skinned versions of android on their phone (blur, sense, other), we all would like to get more stock android from our companies but it seems to become a unreachable dream. now many have said that they must find an workaround for this, yet no idea seems to become a reality....
now my idea consist in having to android packages on every phone from stock one package that will be installed for default and another package that the user may choose to install, the default package will come with a skin while the optional package will contain stock android, now the way to manage this two is via an application from witch the user by running it will decide to have stock rom or skinned.
Now this is the way I think this should work
-User opens the app
-App pops a warning to the user telling him its phone will be fully reseted
-The user accepts the consequences
-The app turns the phone into a recovery mode with a selection for witch package to recover from (for example return a #1 indicating that the user wants skins on his phone will install the package with the skin or a #2 to run a package with no skins at all)
why am I asking help from XDA? because of two things
-I currently don't know that much about programing
-I think XDA would be the best site for the idea to grow and become something significant
what are my plans with this idea? I'm currently writing an open letter to Google and the manufacturers to bring many options to the OS. I thought i would be a great idea not only to deliver this letter but to give the materials they could work on...
do I get anything if I help with developing such an idea?
I currently have no plans on taking credit or any remuneration of any kind from this "project" but I would clearly name those who made this idea possible, now if "bounties" where to come from this then you may earn them...
what are you asking me to do?
-Brainstorming, I would like to see how this idea gets refined.
-Development, when the idea is complete having many attempts to get the idea to work would be great.
-Testing and feedback, help the idea to work on as many devices as possible
-Support, when the protect gets completed i would like everyone to spread the voice. if its a great idea then it should be heard.
Thanks for your Time.
reserved.....
Cyanogen mod is basically stock android with a few mods and tweaks. If doesn't have all of the bloatware that skinned manufacturer roms have so its alot faster and I think stock android looks better than sense, etc.... Its been compiled for a wide range of phones.
K Dotty said:
Cyanogen mod is basically stock android with a few mods and tweaks. If doesn't have all of the bloatware that skinned manufacturer roms have so its alot faster and I think stock android looks better than sense, etc.... Its been compiled for a wide range of phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know about the cynamogen mod have it on my pone,where I'm trying to go with this idea is that there might be other methods for the companies to deliver stuff to the end user and the dev. many know that for example with blur the phone does not work the same when it as blur removed, thats because the 'blur' its being integrated a lot with the OS and in some cases seems to be a pain to remove...
So basically, you have no programming experience and I would hope that English isn't your native language.
Your best bet for now would be to sit back and watch those ahead of you and ask questions as needed.
I think he's suggesting that any code that came about from this would get pushed into stock and hopefully integrated by Google. Manufacturers wouldn't tamper with it; rather, they would make their custom skinned Android (so HTC Sense, or Samsung Touchwiz, or MotoBlur/NinjaBlur) be separate. Phones would require more system space to accommodate for the backups, but it wouldn't have to be astronomical, as only the parts of the system that the skin makers actually modified would be in those recovery partitions. So then the recovery utility launched by the included app would pull all of the packages from whichever partition (recovery_SENSE, for example, or recovery_VANILLA for stock) and push them into /system. So the phone's system would have three total partitions: /system, which would be mounted by the phone during normal boots, /recovery_[whatever_skin], which would hold the manufacturers version of anything they skinned, including apps, frameworks, anything they added, etc, and /recovery_VANILLA, which would only hold the stock versions of anything in the /recovery_[whatever_skin] partition, plus anything the manufacturers took out.
Furthermore, if the partitions are all made big enough, they could future-proof phones. recovery partitions would hold the entire system, skin (or lack of skin) and all, then Google would be made responsible for pushing out the updates to the /recovery_VANILLA partition, keeping all phones up to date. People who ACTUALLY want to sacrifice features for the skin and possible other features could do so. And because everything is backed up to your Google account, there'd be no problems. Everything would get synced at first, but after that you'd be smooth as butter.
I think if this was implemented, and Google told manufacturers they had to do this, it would do a whole lot in the way of moving us away from skins. I think as Google updates are pushed out and manufacturers are updating far less frequently, more and more people will switch to their stock partitions, and, through ad information, manufacturers would realize the skins are wack.
momentarylapseofreason said:
So basically, you have no programming experience and I would hope that English isn't your native language.
Your best bet for now would be to sit back and watch those ahead of you and ask questions as needed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually don't mind if someone takes this and makes something out of it... I don't even want the credit, but I as well will be working and reading as much as I can to get something working, I know this may be hard or complicated but if I see this being implemented and people enjoying it I'll be happy
guitargler said:
I think he's suggesting that any code that came about from this would get pushed into stock and hopefully integrated by Google. Manufacturers wouldn't tamper with it; rather, they would make their custom skinned Android (so HTC Sense, or Samsung Touchwiz, or MotoBlur/NinjaBlur) be separate. Phones would require more system space to accommodate for the backups, but it wouldn't have to be astronomical, as only the parts of the system that the skin makers actually modified would be in those recovery partitions. So then the recovery utility launched by the included app would pull all of the packages from whichever partition (recovery_SENSE, for example, or recovery_VANILLA for stock) and push them into /system. So the phone's system would have three total partitions: /system, which would be mounted by the phone during normal boots, /recovery_[whatever_skin], which would hold the manufacturers version of anything they skinned, including apps, frameworks, anything they added, etc, and /recovery_VANILLA, which would only hold the stock versions of anything in the /recovery_[whatever_skin] partition, plus anything the manufacturers took out.
Furthermore, if the partitions are all made big enough, they could future-proof phones. recovery partitions would hold the entire system, skin (or lack of skin) and all, then Google would be made responsible for pushing out the updates to the /recovery_VANILLA partition, keeping all phones up to date. People who ACTUALLY want to sacrifice features for the skin and possible other features could do so. And because everything is backed up to your Google account, there'd be no problems. Everything would get synced at first, but after that you'd be smooth as butter.
I think if this was implemented, and Google told manufacturers they had to do this, it would do a whole lot in the way of moving us away from skins. I think as Google updates are pushed out and manufacturers are updating far less frequently, more and more people will switch to their stock partitions, and, through ad information, manufacturers would realize the skins are wack.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed thats what I'm thinking... I don't think space should be much of a problem, especially on hight end phones.
When I posted this my fist idea was to give someone an idea I don't mind how you implemented or who you decide to work with (I'll probably just slow you down anyways)
K Dotty said:
Cyanogen mod is basically stock android with a few mods and tweaks. If doesn't have all of the bloatware that skinned manufacturer roms have so its alot faster and I think stock android looks better than sense, etc.... Its been compiled for a wide range of phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Basically stock? AHAHAH
It's all but stock... so many changes, have you ever run a stock Gingerbread or even FroYo recently? Way faster than CM. The truth is that ATM CM is just a candy ROM ATM with large phone models support.
I'd really like to see a stock rom for older devices - here is where CM is proud of. But it's not stock.
As of the application support, you may use my ROM Updater ( http://www.elegosproject.org/android-rom-updater ) to setup repositories of stock ROMs (and in a near future extra downloads like kernels, themes and so on).
At least with windows 7.x you could switch ROMs and side load useful apps, with this safeboot thing and Microsoft's lame attitude to give us more of the features and apps that we want it's no wonder why Windows Phone 8 fourms and blogs are so boring. Way to go Microsoft.
Agreed. I used to come here every day but, now it's once a week (kind of how it was on PPCgeeks.com). No roms, No interop unlocks, no unlocks period.
If you want more discussion about WP8, I suggest going to WPcentral.com...It's pretty active over there...
I really wish a hack of some type would hit, this is getting old. I just want my custom colors back (like I have with WP7).... Advanced Config I miss you !!!
Nobody has been able to find an exploit yet , but I don't really mind lack of activity in forms though as long as cobwebs don't settle upon the entire ecosystem itself we'll be fine
DavidinCT said:
Agreed. I used to come here every day but, now it's once a week (kind of how it was on PPCgeeks.com). No roms, No interop unlocks, no unlocks period.
If you want more discussion about WP8, I suggest going to WPcentral.com...It's pretty active over there...
I really wish a hack of some type would hit, this is getting old. I just want my custom colors back (like I have with WP7).... Advanced Config I miss you !!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea I agree that WP Central has lost more action going on but it's all the same stuff; I mean how many reviews of itsdagram, Facebook, Angry Birds and Skype can one handle before they get bored.
I always use to wonder why XDA turned into Android forum almost over night; now I know why its thanks to Microsoft. I feel sorry for Nokia though they took a big risk and now MS is being stubborn.
sinister1 said:
Yea I agree that WP Central has lost more action going on but it's all the same stuff; I mean how many reviews of itsdagram, Facebook, Angry Birds and Skype can one handle before they get bored.
I always use to wonder why XDA turned into Android forum almost over night; now I know why its thanks to Microsoft. I feel sorry for Nokia though they took a big risk and now MS is being stubborn.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, it's the same *****ing over there sometimes. Don't get me wrong, it's a good site if you want new and useful Windows Phone news. This site used to be a WM haven, just like PPCgeeks was. As that is all there was at the time, we had WM and BB...they were all mainly used by business people or hackers like ourselves.
WP7.x was pretty hackable after a while (with custom roms for most phones and interop unlock for about 90% of the models) so it was pretty active but, now with everyone moving to WP8 (ex WP7 users and converts) and No hacks yet, it's slowed down to almost nothing.
Android is mostly hackable and most phones have or NEED a custom rom, so this became a haven for Android users. And for now, as long as they are not going in this area and trolling, there is no issue with it or at least, I don't have an issue with it.
I do think it's a matter of time, they will find a exploit in WP8. I know why MS locked it down, once WP7 was hacked, it opened the doors for the pirates and some people took advantage if it. Sure there was some cool underground apps but, it just opened the system for the pirates. They wanted to lock down WP8 to make the higher end DEVs come and create the apps and games people want, to grow the system.
Nokia was paid pretty well to make a change to WP and over all they are doing very well with it...and their market is growing.
I'm stil deciding if I am going to pick up the Lumia 928 or stick with my HTC 8X(full price, Not giving up my unlimited data)....Hmmmmm... I just wish I could use Advanced Config to get my custom tile colors back
^stick with 8x at least till Nokia world sometime in September because surprises are on its way
Personally I like the very secure nature of my windows phone, I have rimmed more than my share of devices over the years, so its kind of refreshing to k ow this nuts hard to crack. Nokia did take a big risk but I think its been good for both companies. Nokia has done well with exclusive apps in a starved market and there devices are aimed well at a growing group of android overloaded users. With apps like tumble, netflix, Hulu and others coming over the devices are getting more main stream support and with time that will pay good dividends too. All in all I have found little reason to "root" this device other than for the hell of it. They come pretty lean on apps out of box. The biggest thing people seem to be trying to do is get tethering to work without paying out to a carrier for it. Personally if that's basically the reason your wanting to rom so bad, go back to android its far easier get going. I ramble now though, to sum up phone runs great unrommed, clean eco system and very secure setup makes for an all around pleasant device. I think special rimming is more or less unneeded for these devices. Been running unrommed windows mobile 7 and 8 now for about two years collectively. Have android tablets all rommed and a s3 rommed as a backup device.
Sent from my RM-878_nam_usa_100 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Meh... I considered WP7 without hacks to be nigh-unusable, even though I stuck with a stock ROM. No way to have apps open files automatically, for example (but I could manually add the registry entries, and could write apps that knew how to handle them). No way to access the filesystem (but I could sideload Kindle ebooks using homebrew file managers). No way back up app data or messages (except with homebrew). Minimal control of theming (as a class, this was one of the biggest homebrew categories). No real control over multitasking (I like that the default behavior is so conserving of battery life, but sometimes I don't *want* Puzzle Quest 2 or Fruit Ninja to have to go through its entire launch process just because I switched tasks or let the phone sleep for a bit!). Severe limit on sideloaded apps (I have over 30 of them, counting small utilities that that I developed, and not counting outdated versions, redundent apps, or anything else I removed). No listener sockets (though this didn't require a very fancy hack). No C++ code reuse (same as the server sockets). No way to tell how much space each app was using (but there's a homebrew for that).
WP8 fixes many of the worst problems. We can now register filetype handlers (though Kindle still doesn't register .MOBI or .PRC, so no more sideloading my ebooks for now...), use native code (with restrictions, but it's better than the default on WP7), and theme our phones (well, a litttttle bit more than before; still not enough). They added some much-requested features (SMS backup, variable text size, ability to control the browser app bar at least a bit, WiFi on while sleeping, Skype integration) and of course the change in OS brought many other improvements (multi-core, removable SD cards, higher resolutions, etc.). However, it still has some big problems of its own. True multitasking is still very limited. Data backup is still iffy. Still no filesystem access (or ability to do anything outside an app sandbox except the official Settings tools). Still very limited sideloading.
I promise you, though, people are working on it. I'm one of them, and several of the other names you know from WP7 hacking are as well.
People like GoodDayToDie & netham45 make the windows forums so much fun to follow
nikufellow said:
^stick with 8x at least till Nokia world sometime in September because surprises are on its way
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea but, I am on Verizon....After a release of a model it will take 6 months for Verizon to get a phone that is almost outdated on release.
The 8X is so limited on space that it's driving me nuts, If I find app or game I want to try, I have to uninstall a Paid app to install it. It's getting too old. 8X on format is 11.5gb and the Lumia 928 is 23.5gb, a little over double the space might be worth it, depending on what I can get it for, of course.
The blogs are dead because places like XDA that centralize around modding your phone to improve performance isn't necessary when WP8 software already performs flawlessly. Go to blogs like WPCentral and the Windows Phone community is alive and well swapping out our black Lumia shells for yellow and talking about games and apps. Pretty much doing what we should be doing on a phone, not repairing phones that came broken.
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
I've been wanting to root/unlock my Lumia for one purpose only, sideloading my own developed apps. It's gruesome to try an app in the emulator all the time, but in a month that will be fixed with an AppHub account. And after that my real purpose for rooting/unlocking is gone.
Always fun to see what's possible on the unlocked device though, code-wise.
Sent from my Lumia 920 using Board Express
GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If there is one thing I do not understand about the new SDK APIs, is why on earth an app can not register itself to open file formats reserved by the system. IMO thats the most retarded idea ever implemented in the history of computing. And to make the retarded thing completely retarded, they made it so most common files are handled by system apps, so you can not override the file association.
I am really wondering what is microsoft going to do about these things. If they really want a marketplace full of games, facebook, youtube and instagram apps, then they should stick to their current plan. WP will never get useful in a broad sense.
I hope the update this fall brings new stuff, otherwise the platform will die soon.
GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? ... You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although I don't agree with much of his bill-of-particulars, I have to agree with GDTD's sentiment.
Probably, modders need to correct deficiencies. I'm down with MS or anybody else who steps up. I'm in no hurry to crack my OS open right now, though.
I am especially offended at Microsoft's pitiful PDF reader attempt. And some of the apps in the store make me squint. I want to see the author "Google" emblazoned on my YouTube app, not a third party dev. I sure hope MS is putting these apps under a microscope.
The joy of homebrew (and of a developer forum, like this one) is, even if your goals are different from mine, it's possible for you to make your own changes to the device. It's yours; you control it. That's what security *means*, or at least what it's supposed to mean: you (the owner) are in control of what happens.
Ever since the iPhone, though, the trend has been twoards more and more lockdown, taking control away from the device owner and branding this as "security". I don't like it, so I aim to break it. Ideally, we break it in ways that only work with a local attack; I don't want somebody else able to control my device (that really would be the opposite of security)... but I do want to control it myself!
Part of the problem is that there have been no updates in recent months. Portico came out, Nokia dropped some new firmwares last month. But largely, nothing has changed in WP8 since launch. Personally, I find that boring. Maybe I should have an Android phone on the side to keep me entertained with updates, but I find Windows Phone much more usable day-to-day.
It has been more than 6 months since the WP8 launch, and GDR1 didn't really add much. Microsoft should have planned to have GDR2 out by now, even if it meant postponing some features for GDR3. I think most of us would rather have small quarterly updates to WP8, rather than a massive upgrade once a year. It's starting to feel like WP7 and the Mango anticipation all over again, now that it sounds like WP8.1 might be delayed into 2014. Hopefully they come through with their vaporware enthusiast program to keep our attention in the meantime.
I agree with the OP. Cobwebs on this side of the section totally. A thread in a week may be? But there is something I often read on many forums. People who are happy (I know it's a very wide term) with their devices, I.e don't run into problems with their devices, see no need to lurk around. So actually, it is a good sign. It shows how well-thought after a WP device is.
And GoodDayToDie, even though I agree with everything u've noted down, I don't quite believe WP needs all of that.
Still no app data backup machanism. - Umm...Data Sense?
Still no custom themes. - Fair Enough, but again, WP IS NOT meant to be themed to the T
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC. - I believe this is for security reasons.
Still no filesystem access. - Why do you even want that when the system is running flawless, (yes the same word u scorned at.)
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?) - LOL! You gotta be kidding me right?
Android has the worst permission management I have ever seen in my adult life. Android gives wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy more information out than any OS out there.
Still no way remove "Settings" apps. Umm..u sure u want that?
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking). Multi-tasking is really good with WP8.
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it). - Fair enough, but not a deal breaker either.
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer. - I believe you are again entering the territory of themeing, already replied above. Every OS comes with it's own email client. I don't see the point here.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card. - Fair enough. By far the best point in your list.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth. - In what way?
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry. - Again, WHY? WHy mend it when it's not broken.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps - U can download the app(paid or otherwise) from the App store on your computer, put it on the SD card and say install from the Store App on the phone. Simple?
DataSense has nothing even remotely to do with backing up (and restoring) app data; where'd you get that idea? Vital feature that homebrew eventually made avaialble in WP7 but is missing in WP8.
"IS NOT meant" nothing! Somewhere under all that sandboxing and locked-down UI is a general-purpose OS running on top of highly capable hardware. It's "meant" to be whatever the owner fo the device *wants* it to be, including (in the case of many, many people if the popularity of WP7 homebrew apps is any sign) theming. Stop being an apologist for Microsoft; it's one thing to say "extensive theming wasn't implemented because other features were higher priority" but when you start trying to tell me that I'm not supposed to theme it, you seriously need to put down the Kool-Ade. Besides, the very claim is ludicrous to the point of disingenious; have you *seen* the WP8 ads? They all stress the customizability of the Start screen. To the point of suggesting you can "meet" a person simply through how they have their phone set up... those ads freaking scream "customize me!" Then you discover there's only a handful of pre-set colors, two background styles, and the ability to mess with the tiles; nothing else.
No, it is quite absolutely *not* for "security" reasons. Security means the owner of the device controlling the device's behavior. If somebody else (like, for example, the manufacturer of the device) is controlling its behavior, that is not security; it's lockdown. The sideloading restriction can only be called security if it's not your device but actually belongs to Microsft. Screw that. Besides, that argument makes no sense anyhow; if I can pay my $99 and sideload with a PC, why can't I sideload without one (or without paying)? The marketplace has DRM to mitigate piracy and that's a darn weak excuse to cripple a device anyhow.
When I can load my Puzzle Quest 2 savegames and other game progress and high scores, copy my PGP keychain, sideload my Kindle ebooks into the Kindle app (yes, this is possible on WP7), extract or replace the built-in audio files, and delete the junk which accumulates in the OS and uses up storage space (without hard resetting the device), then I will stop considering the level of filesystem access a problem. Until then, "running flawless" is quite worthy of scorn indeed.
Wow, I seriously question your reading comprehension. I never mentioned Android in this point, or anywhere else (except to point out that it has a lot of homebrew). But, for your information, the default permissions / capabilities handling in Android is just as broken as in WP8. The difference is that with Android, it is possible (CyanogenMOD did this, for example) to install apps without actually granting them all the permissions they ask for. On WP7, this wasn't properly possible yet, but I was working on a system to do it that hooked the app install process and allowed people to uncheck app capabilities they didn't want to permit.
Um yes, I'd like to remove the non-functioning Samsung apps (until they are fixed) that are taking up space on my phone's storage and making the Settings list longer. I can always re-install them if needed. Every other carrier or OEM app is removable; why should these get special treatment just because they have a field in their app manifest that says "install me in the Settings hub"?
Multitasking - true multitasking, where multiple apps can run at once - is nigh-nonexistent on WP8. Aside from things like audio background agents and once-every-30-minutes-you-get-a-few-seconds-of-CPU-time scheduled tasks, there basically isn't any multitasking (of third-party apps) at all. Fast app switching is *not* multitasking; every app aside from the main one is suspended, unable to do amything until brought into the foreground.
Changing file associations obviusly isn't a deal-breaker, or I wouldn't be using the phone... but definitely a problem. Windows has offered the ability to control file associations since at least Win95, and I think it was possible in 3.1 as well...
Changing the default browser and email client and calendar and dialer aren't "theming" by any conventional definition, but the point made above about theming stands anyhow: it's a matter of personalization. It can also be a matter of functionality (for example, the built-in email client can't handle S/MIME encrypted email at all and has no PGP integration). Or a matter of usability (I use folders a lot; it's a pain needing to expand a menu to get to them)! Or something else... the important point is that it should be possible. Every OS comes with an email client, but every OS except iOS (and WP) allows you to change the default email client, too. This isn't even hard to implement (the relevant registry keys were present on WP7, at least; carrying over the API to control them wouldn't have been hard at all); it's once again a case of Microsoft intentionally restricting what you can do with your phone. If I wanted a mobile OS designed by a control freak, I'd buy an iPhone...
Nothing more really needs to be said here, except that with filesystem access (create a symlink or junction in the apps folder, for example) this would be possible...
Many BT profiles, such as HID devices (for mice and keyboards), are missing from WP8. So far as I know, apps can't use the Headset profile either; the pseudo-turn-by-turn navigation on WP7 would give its instructions via the car's BT if possible, but Nokia/Here Drive must use the phone's speakerphone speaker instead.
When I can change default browser and text editor, create my own themes, enable features that a ROM shipped disabled (have you seen the thread by the guy who can't get visual voicemail?), sideload high-privilege apps (without paying for the privilege), and remove root certificates of CAs that I don't trust (in WP7, these were stored in the registry), then I will stop considering the level of registry access to be a problem.
If they're from the store, they aren't really sideloaded, just downloaded on a different machine. I'm talking homebrew, stuff that the isn't yet, or never will be, or *can't* be (because it breaks some policy of Microsoft's, or requires high privileges to work) put in the store. Besides, many of the most popular WP8 models don't have an SD card slot at all.
GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only thing I can agree with you on is the file system, bluetooth, and not being able to override the default apps associations (seriously, the default apps is the most retarded idea ever).
Hello Guys,
before I start: My apologies for this, I am not quite sure if I am even in the right Topic.
I think of myself as pretty new to Android, but got some experiences in Rooting, Custom Roms and such. But that is already as far as it gets.
Now my Problem: We lost our BES and now my Company decided to go with Android (SG4 I9505) and I have to make it happen :angel:.
1. I Need some Kind of Freeware tool to administer Android Devices (Basic: find device, delete data, restrict Apps)
2. If something like this dont exist (which I dont think-I just havent found it)), I would Need to know if I can use CM 10.2 as our Standard Rom and before you start rolling your eyes with experimental and such....
I have to restrict the phone solely to Telefone, Exchange and some preselected (mostly travel)Tools. NO GAPPS!!! and I think that nightly CM provides this with no problems
To realize this I downloaded the nightly from 18th, I think. I then added some APK´s into \System\app Folder and installed the ROM. This actually worked fine until I updated to phone afterwards via build in updating tool - all Tools were gone.(what did I miss?)
Now, our Standard is SG4 I-9505.
Any ideas on how I could do this? (I couldnt find what I was looking for)
1. Adminster a fleet of androids (free)
2. Customize a Custom ROM for corporate Identity (How to pre-setup Exchange Boot Logo, Lockscreen, etc.)
3. or customize a ROM to the Point it cannot do much except what is in the \System\app Folder and turn off updates
Any link is much appreciated. Sadly there is sooooo much andoid articles out there that I seem to get lost while searching for the right one. Thanks in advance!!!!
AccEss-dEniEd said:
1. Adminster a fleet of androids (free)
2. Customize a Custom ROM for corporate Identity (How to pre-setup Exchange Boot Logo, Lockscreen, etc.)
3. or customize a ROM to the Point it cannot do much except what is in the \System\app Folder and turn off updates
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My guess is I'll get flamed for saying this - but here goes.
Android corporate (MDM) leaves a lot to be desired next to iOS, at least as far as I've been able to find. We manage a lot of iPads and obviously minus the custom ROM we've been able to do it all for little to no cost. We've shied away from Android a lot because of the limited MDM control.
But, since you asked:
1. Meraki Systems Manager (and the accompanying app from Google Play)
2. Good luck with that
3. See number 2
I think the reality is you're going to need to do something to the effect of either cook your own ROM and deploy it or use a tool like CWM to create an "image" that you would then restore to the devices. I did that with a batch of 60+ Nexus 7s and it worked out pretty well.
Edit:
With all that said - I would urge your management to reconsider their approach as the world has changed since Blackberry was the only game in town. Yes, still stick with MDM, device location, remote wipe etc. But unless you're dealing with highly sensitive information (exp banking), let people actually USE the device you're giving them. Don't lock it down to where its basically a first generation iPhone. I'm a big fan of giving someone a good tool and letting them use it the way that works best for them, while still keeping the device and more importantly the data under corporate control.
Assuming you have Exchange, does this not provide the management part?
AccEss-dEniEd said:
Hello Guys,
before I start: My apologies for this, I am not quite sure if I am even in the right Topic.
I think of myself as pretty new to Android, but got some experiences in Rooting, Custom Roms and such. But that is already as far as it gets.
Now my Problem: We lost our BES and now my Company decided to go with Android (SG4 I9505) and I have to make it happen :angel:.
1. I Need some Kind of Freeware tool to administer Android Devices (Basic: find device, delete data, restrict Apps)
2. If something like this dont exist (which I dont think-I just havent found it)), I would Need to know if I can use CM 10.2 as our Standard Rom and before you start rolling your eyes with experimental and such....
I have to restrict the phone solely to Telefone, Exchange and some preselected (mostly travel)Tools. NO GAPPS!!! and I think that nightly CM provides this with no problems
To realize this I downloaded the nightly from 18th, I think. I then added some APK´s into \System\app Folder and installed the ROM. This actually worked fine until I updated to phone afterwards via build in updating tool - all Tools were gone.(what did I miss?)
Now, our Standard is SG4 I-9505.
Any ideas on how I could do this? (I couldnt find what I was looking for)
1. Adminster a fleet of androids (free)
2. Customize a Custom ROM for corporate Identity (How to pre-setup Exchange Boot Logo, Lockscreen, etc.)
3. or customize a ROM to the Point it cannot do much except what is in the \System\app Folder and turn off updates
Any link is much appreciated. Sadly there is sooooo much andoid articles out there that I seem to get lost while searching for the right one. Thanks in advance!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I currently work in the infrastructure of a good sized corporation. We're using IOS with a mixture of android hardware and there's some good news and bad news for what you want to do.
Good news is, like Jpcurrie said, exchange will handle remote wiping and locking the phone down. you can require the phone to use a PIN, remote wipe and and a bit more. As for locating the phone, Google actually has finally built in remote locating of your device and remote wipe as well. There's a couple good apps out there (lookout) will turn on your GPS and allow you to locate the phone and they're free. If you happen to have a virtualized environment with VMware, you could also use VMware View Horizons which builds in a secure sector on the phone and you can remotely manage which apps and files the user can use. the best part of View is you can use a BYOD model and keep corporate data secure. The biggest issue is if you don't happen to already use a VMware architecture it gets pricey quickly.
Here's the rub now. you want to install your own logos on the bootup which you could do by installing a custom ROM. This will void your warranty on the hardware and as it isn't 100% stable you'll be spending a LOT of time trying to keep a consistent environment.
Like netsyd said, talk to management about an MDM, and the branding of the devices, maybe even talk to them about using a BYOD to reduce costs of hardware and administration of that hardware.
Isn´t Knox supposed to allow administrators to only delete the data that belongs to the Corporate account (emails, calendars, tasks, etc.), or an administrator can still force a full device wipe? Sorry if the questions is too basic, I've tried searching around for info on Knox but couldn't find anything besides press releases.
I'm not a network administrator, I'm just a user and my school secure wifi installs a device administrator.
I'm sorry to deviate the topic a little bit from the original.
At Delta we use Air Watch but it's far from free. You can however manage devices and remote wipe. You can also view installed apps and remove what should not be there. Options for device profiles also. I help maintain these devices everyday. Not Free but an MDM is your best bet.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda app-developers app
long time - no see
Hiya,
sorry I didn t answer - kinda was overwhelmed with this Task.
Wanted still to thank you: I did what you suggestet and wanted to let you know where I am now.
1. Meraki = implemented - now runnning 160+ devices. (at no costs)
2. CM12.1 implemented (without GAPPS/no SU)
3. Standard Image/w Apps defined. (Mostly Offline capable Tools like "here" etc.(which actually reduced costs))
4. Since Android has limited capability to be administered in a "real" professional Fashion we mitigated this issue by creating a policy to forbid the user to temper with the device (e.g. Installation of Software/SU etc) yet to allow the Installation of Software manually by us via creating a ticket. We check the Software mainly for "sanity" and malware and install it if ok.
This has been working so far like a charm for us. None of the user were happy to loose the Gapps obviously - but once they had their Software and settled in, all was ok. For the Administering part: Meraki can tell me if Software is beeing installed without our Knowledge, also we see if SM doesnt speak with us anymore. So, for now, we got the most out of the System and I am happy to say: I got minimal Control in a Quality sense. No no more "KO Critera" - and we have implemented Android. Tracking etc. is forbidden in Germany anyway - so we use Meraki mainly to wipe if lost and to check if someone goes against policy.
What is still open:
- I am still working on a way to have the user enter his credentials and automatically enter These in all respective config files. (haven't had much luck - with the absense of SU obviously.
- a Little cosmetics still open (I am still trying to figure out how the theming really works ... I usually f**k up the Pictures and sounds.... but so far making Progress
- with less and less good Android devices coming out (now, I am probably beeing flamed now ) that suits our needs (open bootloader, known/supported CPUs, removable battery, SD Card Slot) - I think we might Switch by Q4/2016.
netsyd said:
My guess is I'll get flamed for saying this - but here goes.
Android corporate (MDM) leaves a lot to be desired next to iOS, at least as far as I've been able to find. We manage a lot of iPads and obviously minus the custom ROM we've been able to do it all for little to no cost. We've shied away from Android a lot because of the limited MDM control.
But, since you asked:
1. Meraki Systems Manager (and the accompanying app from Google Play)
2. Good luck with that
3. See number 2
I think the reality is you're going to need to do something to the effect of either cook your own ROM and deploy it or use a tool like CWM to create an "image" that you would then restore to the devices. I did that with a batch of 60+ Nexus 7s and it worked out pretty well.
Edit:
With all that said - I would urge your management to reconsider their approach as the world has changed since Blackberry was the only game in town. Yes, still stick with MDM, device location, remote wipe etc. But unless you're dealing with highly sensitive information (exp banking), let people actually USE the device you're giving them. Don't lock it down to where its basically a first generation iPhone. I'm a big fan of giving someone a good tool and letting them use it the way that works best for them, while still keeping the device and more importantly the data under corporate control.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse