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I'm really itching to get some real live information from someone who has used a new Nexus One phone. I am going to my T-Mobile store in a day or two, and there are several specific things I want to see:
(1) yes, of course the screen. but i'd like some real data on battery performance, and I doubt anyone's got some good comparison data yet compared to Hero?
(2) Without SenseUI, what is its look & feel? I would like to see the live Wallpapers, but truly that is eye candy, and as visually oriented as I am, I want to use my phone and mini-computer, not stare at it.
(3) (this is out of sequence but does the HTC Nexus One (vs Google Nexus One) have Sense UI on it? if so, how do they differ?)
(4) MAIN THING FOR ME: I love my HTC Hero (Europe GSM version, yes, with the chin)... But, after just the very first day when I started using it, I recognized the annoyance of the hard keys being really hard to push, relatively, compared to hard keys on my last HTC device, which is almost 3 years old -- T-Mobile Wing. Those hard keys are contoured and flush. The Hero's keys LOOK sharp, but they also feel sharp. and not easy to depress.
COMPARED TO: what looks like soft touch keys on the Nexus One. They look great. And could be reason alone for me to sell my Hero and get the Nexus One. I don't care at all for the loss of CALL and END dedicated keys. I almost always use the onscreen touch controls for these functions. It seems like Google really did some serious usability improvements if in fact those 4 standard Android function keys are all flush touch keys: Back, Menu/Options, Home, Search.
(5) SECOND MAIN THING: The trackball. I just have to say, this has been the biggest disappointment of all for me with the Hero. I have seen zero advantage to it, and many disadvantages compared to the ease of use of the quad-directional pad on my T-Mobile Wing. Obviously Motorola agreed the trackball left a lot to be desired since they nixed it from both the DROID and the Cliq.
I had expected much greater sensitivity control from the trackball -- but it is so unwieldy, and 9 times out of 10 when I have my selection, it slips to an adjacent selection when I then want to "long-press" to get options, or even short press to activate selection. I have not yet rooted my Hero, so i have no idea yet what XDA devs have done the past few months to perhaps add advanced controls for the trackball. My expectation is to have sensitivity and speed control adjustments that are context sensitive for each and every app I use, but especially the keyboard. How often I am trying to reposition the cursor and, there it goes, to top or bottom, or anywhere except where I want it to go. Also, Ihave been really really surprised at how lacking the controls of the trackball are for selecting letters of a word.
SO, I want to feel in my hands how the Nexus One feels in this regard. Is it better, is it the same?
Anyone know?
---
I'm secretly hoping people will say, for real, "yes, the Nexus One has the much faster processor, the higher-rez screen, the noise cancellation, the turn-by-turn application" and so on, "but it falls short compared to the Hero in these ways:.................................. "
But somehow I do not think that is going to be the case.
(Oddball final question: Has the hero gotten its ANdroid and SenseUI updates yet?)
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Nexus one vs. HTC Hero
quicksite said:
(1) yes, of course the screen.
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The Nexus One screen is awesome, but not touted as oleophobic. It does retain fingerprints if your fingers aren't dry, but it's easy to clean. Hero's screen is supposed to be oleophobic, but it also gets fingerprints.
quicksite said:
but i'd like some real data on battery performance, and I doubt anyone's got some good comparison data yet compared to Hero?
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Nexus One seemed to fare a little better than Hero with regards to batter life, but I haven't done proper comparisons.
quicksite said:
(2) Without SenseUI, what is its look & feel?
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Looks great. I didn't miss the lack of SenseUI, except in the alarm application, where you can't swipe the hour/minute up down, but have to press two plus/minus buttons.
quicksite said:
(3) (this is out of sequence but does the HTC Nexus One (vs Google Nexus One) have Sense UI on it? if so, how do they differ?)
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Nexus One doesn't have Sense UI.
quicksite said:
(4) MAIN THING FOR ME: I love my HTC Hero (Europe GSM version, yes, with the chin)... But, after just the very first day when I started using it, I recognized the annoyance of the hard keys being really hard to push, relatively
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The soft keys on Nexus One are famous for being a bit misplaced - you have to touch slightly above them, in order to register the tap. They offer haptic feedback. The back key (the most commonly used one) is smartly placed where your thumb falls- an improvement over the Hero, which places it such that you have to contort your thumb to reach for it.
quicksite said:
(5) SECOND MAIN THING: The trackball. I just have to say, this has been the biggest disappointment of all for me with the Hero. I have seen zero advantage to it, and many disadvantages compared to the ease of use of the quad-directional pad on my T-Mobile Wing.
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The trackball is a bad idea compared to a directional pad. I haven't used it much really, but from what I have, it did an OK job.
quicksite said:
SO, I want to feel in my hands how the Nexus One feels in this regard. Is it better, is it the same?
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The chin on the Hero is useful in that it protects the screen if you drop the phone on a flat surface. If you drop the Nexus, the screen will take the shock. The Nexus one is slimmer and slightly larger.
quicksite said:
I'm secretly hoping people will say, for real, "yes, the Nexus One has the much faster processor, the higher-rez screen, camera flash, the noise cancellation, the turn-by-turn application, easier to remove back cover" and so on, "but it falls short compared to the Hero in these ways:.................................. "
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It does have all those, and it's frikkin' fast indeed. It falls short in that it has a lame speaker, and its slab/slate shape will make it somewhat more likely to have the screen damaged in the event of a drop. I for one miss the call/end call keys, but overall prefer the soft keys on the Nexus One.
What a fantastic review, thank you, dandv!
I think it is fair to assume that you must work for Google, because who else would have had this much experience already using the Nexus One -- especially this line:
The soft keys on Nexus One are famous for being a bit misplaced - you have to touch slightly above them, in order to register the tap.
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By the way, is it okay for me to compliment Romania on having one of the most beautiful and charming women in the whole world? (Maria Popistasu)... I would trade 10,000 Nexus Ones, okay, 1 million Nexus Ones for a Maria. (Now I will get slammed by one of the two members within the 2 million registered XDA-developers who are women )
Nexus One seemed to fare a little better than Hero with regards to batter life, but I haven't done proper comparisons.
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Really? wow, this was a major complaint by the Engadget people, that battery life was poor on the Nexus One, due to the power drawn for that screen and various connectivity to web issues, and live wallpaper etc. It's funny: I was comparing the reviews by Engadget and TechCrunch -- total opposites. But commenters at TechCrunch claimed "Engadget loves all things Apple and hates Android" while "TechCrunch hates Apple for withholding Google Voice on iPhone, and loves all things Android".. with users calling for a neutral review to split the tie. ( I also loved how one of the commenters at TechCrunch just decimated Walt Mossberg: "Ryan Sinn - January 6th, 2010 at 4:04 pm PST:
Walt Mossberg writes his tech reviews on a MacBook Pro while listening to his iTunes playlist via an iPod with his AppleTV recording the MacNeil Lehrer Newshour." ... This was in reply to another user comment who was paraphrasing uncle Walt:
I read Walt Mossberg’s review of the Nexus One and he provides a review of the Nexus One’s media features (handling photo, video, syncing music, etc.) as virtually non-existent or downright shoddy as compared to the iPhone. While I agree with you that the iPhone can learn a thing or two from webOS and Android in terms of multitasking, notifications, and so on, the Android still seems an inferior platform (as Mossberg again states) when it comes to overall functionality of going beyond the productivity apps like email, browser, and GVoice that Android 2.1 boasts of here.
I was tempted to switch to the Nexus One from my iPhone, but after reading Mossberg’s review, especially when it comes to syncing media – not to mention the sheer number of apps available – the iPhone still seems the front runner. Multitouch also seems to be a BIG advantage that no Android device supports.
I do think that iPhone OS 4.0 and the next gen-hardware of the iPhone will go beyond the Nexus One. So far, Android is still playing catch-up from where I see, although it does seem to come pretty close to the 3GS, a phone released 6 months back.
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--- anyway, back to YOUR review, dandv:
Looks great. I didn't miss the lack of SenseUI, except in the alarm application, where you can't swipe the hour/minute up down, but have to press two plus/minus buttons.
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That IS pretty nifty on the Hero, but since this is my first Android phone, I don't really know what's SenseUI and what is raw Android. But let me ask this question: Surely some XDA-dev has extracted SenseUI and could create a ROM for Nexus One that installs it?
Nexus One doesn't have Sense UI.
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But I was asking if the HTC European release of the phone added SenseUI... since I read that it does include multi-touch gestures on the native Android apps and UI, but I have no idea if that is true or not. I read elsewhere that the USA model and the HTC Europe model is identical. Do you know? And more specifically, do you know if the European model includes T-Mobile USA 3G bands?
The soft keys on Nexus One are famous for being a bit misplaced - you have to touch slightly above them, in order to register the tap. They offer haptic feedback. The back key (the most commonly used one) is smartly placed where your thumb falls- an improvement over the Hero, which places it such that you have to contort your thumb to reach for it.
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Re: "misplaced"... More and more I am just recognizing that on the resistive screens I have been used to on WindowsMobile phones, we are all used to being able to line up the top of the fingernail with the keys in order to get natural placement, but that on capacitive screens, the impact point of the finger to the screen is the bottom of the fingertip, which in itself is (using USA scale) 1/8" to 1/4" downward from the fingernail tip. So I have been advised by "experienced" Android users that the secret to typing on the soft keyboard is to tap slightly above the letters on-screen. But in fact that really is just a visual adjustment and the actual impact point of the finger is precisely on the soft target... ?
If I am correct, then it would be great if Android OS offered a user preference offset adjustment -- in the same way that Windows Mobile (yes, can you believe it, an actual compliment to Windows Mobile!) did a great job with its angle offset adjustment since people who are right handed are really naturally positioned with their hands to be "attacking" the soft keyboard at a slight diagonal angle from lower right and moving to the left.
But what do I know. YOU've used the Nexus One, I haven't. In fact I was really disappointed. Today I went to my T-Mobile store thinking they might have a demo Nexus One that customers could try out before purchasing from Google online... Nope. they said there is no way to try the phone first. You have to just buy it.
The trackball is a bad idea compared to a directional pad. I haven't used it much really, but from what I have, it did an OK job.
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Yeah, so at your next Google team meeting, would you please tell the Android product dev team to take a cue from Motorola and provide the D-pad?
The chin on the Hero is useful in that it protects the screen if you drop the phone on a flat surface. If you drop the Nexus, the screen will take the shock. The Nexus one is slimmer and slightly larger.
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Wow, I never thought of that before, and I've never read that anywhere... I wish Google hadn't dumped the "chin" for their Nexus One, but given both USA carriers of the Hero, Verizon and Sprint, both dumped the chin, I have to believe that some of that influence came from Google itself -- and these weren't simply decisions made unilaterally by Sprint or Verizon.
It does have all those, and it's frikkin' fast indeed. It falls short in that it has a lame speaker, and its slab/slate shape will make it somewhat more likely to have the screen damaged in the event of a drop. I for one miss the call/end call keys, but overall prefer the soft keys on the Nexus One.
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Lame speaker as in "not what it SHOULD be" or "not as good as the Hero speakers (which I have been very impressed by). Do you have any idea what kind of usability studies Google Mountain View did to justify removing those keys? Why couldn't they have also been soft keys?
fyi, not sure how many people know about the company "SquareTrade" -- who provide alternative handset insurance, which includes accidental droppin g and I believe water damage. Way more reasonable in price than the plans that carriers offer. They "flatrate" iphones because of huge customer base, but it's a bit higher for other touchscreen phones. There's no way I would get a phone today without accidental dropping coverage, especially when it's reasonable.
I have to say, based on your review re battery life and the soft keys, I am very tempted to buy the Nexus One and commit to 2 years with T-Mobile. I've already been with them for 5 years and am reasonably happy. But I have questions, just for the heck of it:
(1) Since you're out there in Silicon Valley, and as I said, maybe even a Google employee by day, XDA-devs member by night, my guess is that a Nexus Two is already way into development? Just curious if anyone has any sixth sense about when Google's followup phone will be released?
(2) What is the market rate these days when selling a used Hero that's still under full warranty ( i think mine is 3 years, or at least 2 years for sure)? I purchased the european GSM version for $525, so what would be a price someone would be willing to pay for a used Hero? $400, $350 ?
Thanks so much for your review and full answers. I expected there would have been topics already here at XDA on this phone, but I didn't see any.
Get a job?
Oi quicksite, a buddy of mine who's seen your post above agrees that you have too much time on your hands
I don't work for Google - quite on the contrary. I'm just experienced with evaluating stuff. One will realize the slight misplacement of the soft keys as soon as they first experience the Nexus One; and I've seen the issue reported in a few places, to conclude that it's famous (Engadget probably).
Rumor has it that Nexus Two will be out in a year. As for the speaker, it's worse than Hero's, and worse than the one in iPhone and Samsung Galaxy. But do you really play music on the phone's speaker? You'll probably use earphones, or Bluetooth. As for ringtones, you won't really care that the speaker is poor. If you watch videos, you might suffer. The soundtrack of videos I watch is mostly dialogue (TED talks, George Carlin-type comedy).
As for "market rates" for stuff, there's no such thing. Head to eBay and craigslist and see what they sell for. Market yours well (see my eBay ad for my Samsung Galaxy) and you'll get a good price.
As for insurance, the only time my phone was dropped was when I let a curious doofus handle it. Look back in time - do you really have a tendency to drop your phone? I would not buy any sort of insurance.
Nope, there is no option in Android to offset your point of contact. Just get used to where the fingertip really is. Windows Mobile interfaces may have that option (I haven't seen it on my HTC Angel) because they're badly built for finger use - they're built more like office applications to be used with a stylus. The Android UI is touch-optimized. Most of the time you can operate your phone fine with only one hand, which makes it way more usable for GPS navigation (of course, don't text and drive - but hey, Nexus One introduced dictation as an input method, so you may be tempted).
I expected there would have been topics already here at XDA on this phone, but I didn't see any.
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Head over to http://androidforums.com/htc-hero/
My advice - you seem to be trapped in analysis paralysis, or the paradox of choice. Just buy the phone, and you'll be able to sell it a year later for at least $300. With the time you'll save by not dwelling too much on it, you'll be able to work a gig to make up for the difference
Oh, and put some hot Romanian girl wallpaper on it.
Oh my god, i'm given links to analysis paralysis! Then I am analyzed... hah hah. Geez man i've only had my Hero for 4 weeks. I'm not used to that turnaround rate.
No, I just type at an inefficient word rate of 100-to-1 compared to most.
Note to self: Set up a poll here to ask if anyone at XDA learned something valuable from my questions!
You can't possibly be Romanian if you do not know the subject in question. But seriously thank you. And after deliberations under 36 hours, yeah, maybe i'll get the nexus. But analysis paralysis? This coming from...
Welcome to my collection of meta-reviews. Before making significant purchases, I do a fair amount of market research, aggregating user reviews from Amazon, Epinions, or specialized sites for electronic or computer equipment. For software, as for anything I decide buying, I write my own reviews on this wiki.
Displays
a massive analysis of over 50 LCD monitors
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hmph. Okay! now I see how it's done! all in under 36 hours I am sure... ha hah
Moving on
quicksite said:
You can't possibly be Romanian if you do not know the subject in question.
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Which subject? Anyway, this got way off-topic already.
quicksite said:
But seriously thank you. And after deliberations under 36 hours, yeah, maybe i'll get the nexus. But analysis paralysis? This coming from...
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Exactly - with regards to the analysis paralysis. Been there, done that, trying to help others avoid it.
dandv said:
Which subject? Anyway, this got way off-topic already.
Exactly - with regards to the analysis paralysis. Been there, done that, trying to help others avoid it.
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what about help in...
Post Purchase research????
I am spending to much time online.
Looking up new things / issues / upgrades/ all about my new HERO!!!
Dan330 said:
what about help in...
Post Purchase research????
I am spending to much time online.
Looking up new things / issues / upgrades/ all about my new HERO!!!
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well i guess this is a mocking comment but i cannot tell.
In 3 years on this site, I've actually never run into this much dissing of somebody asking reasonable questions about actual usability issues. For some i guess $500 is a drop in the bucket; just buy the damn thing. a day of posting here is way too much time on your hands.
So here i was ready to take the advice of "just do it", and then I followed another of dandv's links to androidforums.com -- where i discovered that in 13 pages of threads on the Nexus One, at least 50 threads were expressing major problems in all kinds of areas, from the displaced touch alignment, which for many was recurring in every session, and would be fixed by battery removed, replaced, to lots of erratic connectivity problems with people who had two phones and could swap sim cards out and see their other phone connecting immediately, to major complaints re data plans there were not made clear to existing customers of T-Mobile, to some instant-pushback on google for its refusal to provide telephone support for their branded phone, instead their usual "fill out an email; you may not get a personal reply" (which means all the template stuff where you are forced down a path of their search results based on your question, read read reda, eventualy at the end of that line there is no existing faq for your question, and then waiting yet again for another non-specific email reply.
I'm actually glad this topic immediately deteriorated. If my questions were analysis paralysis about what for me is a major new expense, then its equally irresponsible to give the phone a rave (the hardware and software) without even a hint of the legions of problems some people are experiencing not just with the phone, but also with sorting out WHO ANSWERS THE CONSUMER FOR WHAT? T-mobile, HTC, Google.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8451473.stm
Just one of many such news reports.
So la dee dah, just frikkin buy it and then buy a new one if that's a problem.
quicksite said:
well i guess this is a mocking comment but i cannot tell.
.
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Yes
it was a joke...
what i was trying to say
I am like you
do a lot of research before purchase
and a lot more after...
so chill
it's all good....
I learned a lot from your questions, comments, and research...
later
Nexus One has the fastest GPS fix I've ever seen
Just wanted to add, after a month with the N1, that it gets a GPS fix faster than any other phone (Samsung Galaxy, HTC Hero) or device (GlobalSat SiRFstarIII) that I've used. It gets a GPS fix, apparently from a cold start, in less than 20 seconds, every time, even from a moving car.
I hope this isn't perceived as spamming or fishing for votes. I think most of us would like to see a smoother Android GUI instead of that choppyness on our 1GHz phones. I and many people believe that Google can do something about this but are not prioritizing this as they should. I think we can change this by visiting and voting here, clicking on the star under the headline, if we want to see a change: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=6914
Who knows, if we start voting now, maybe they will implement this feature in the next Android version.
P.S. You need a Google account to be able to vote.
EDIT: Maybe this is why we haven't seen it yet?
From what I've heard, the fault lies mostly with HTC, encouraged by wholesale indifference by the carriers. Here's the story I was told:
* Qualcomm makes the core chipset used by most HTC phones, and most Android phones were built by HTC until VERY recently. Thus, the things that got the most attention during Android's first year and a half of commercial availability were things directly supported by HTC phones.
* The price charged by Qualcomm for its chipset varies, depending upon what features the handset manufacturer chooses to license from them. Put another way, every Qualcomm chip in a given family has the silicon resources to do everything... but manufacturers are only allowed to use the features they pay Qualcomm for the right to use.
* Because the carriers don't care, and the carriers are HTC's real customers, HTC didn't care about GPU support, either. It saved a few cents per phone, and washed its hands of GPU support to boot.
* Making matters worse, Qualcomm only makes its chipset documentation available under NDA (at least, the parts dealing with "premium" capabilities), and only made it available to licensees (of which there were very, very few). Ergo, the documentation has been VERY hard to come by, and less likely to be leaked by a public-minded HTC employee for the good of humanity.
Put another way, there probably isn't a thing Qualcomm can do to stop the folks at xda-developers.com from releasing guerrilla video drivers for HTC Android phones that take advantage of acceleration if they can figure out how it works, but you'll never see a phone come out of the box new with GPU acceleration unless HTC officially licenses the capability from Qualcomm. Nor will you see Google making it easy to do an end-run around the official release to graft it on, because then Qualcomm would sue THEM.
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- This is from: http://androidforums.com/android-news-talk/29584-why-doesnt-androids-gui-use-gpu-acceleration.html
I starred it.
Definitely is bizarre that GPU integration isn't enabled in Android 2.1+
This hardware-can-do-qualcom-wont-allow-it is old...
It happens with a LOT of devices...
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
I'm glad to see that we are climbing on the chart of issues.
I have come to notice that the issue of the choppy Android experience is not only a problem because of the lack of GPU acceleration. Android phones tend to respond to our gestures way too exactly. This results in uneven transitions, one half of the animation is fast and the other half is slower. This unevenness being a result of us not making, or following through, with perfectly even movements in terms of speed. I believe this is something Apple has addressed and they did it very nicely because even though you are moving your fingers unevenly and slowly, the UI transitions follows your finger in an even and smooth fashion but in a speed that matches your finger. This looks phenomenal. Same goes for faster input gestures, the Ios (iOS) responds in an even and smooth fashion but the transition is faster.
It was the same with my old HD1, the xda gpu-drivers helped alot. Looks like we'll have to take the matter into our own hands again.
Wasn't HTC mass-sued for this a while back?
Syc said:
It was the same with my old HD1, the xda gpu-drivers helped alot. Looks like we'll have to take the matter into our own hands again.
Wasn't HTC mass-sued for this a while back?
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Nope. There was a whole load of talk of it over the TyTn II debacle, but the only thing to ever come of that was the rather excellent XDA GPU drivers.
I hate to admit this, but if Google, or whoever it is responsible, doesn't do something about this, I'll have to look elsewhere (Iphone). It might sound crazy but it's that important to me. I mean, it's so basic. Why add mega-ultra-fiction features and all other sh*t, when you don't know how to make a smooth transition. The basic element of the GUI.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like Apple, their policy or their attitude towards the rest. However, I'm being honest about this: they care. I haven't seen one Android phone capable of delivering smooth transitions although they are more powerful than the Iphones. On the one hand you have a team utilizing the entire potential of their sh**ty phones, and on the other hand you have a team doesn't give a rats a*s about the hardware in them.
I don't know if Google is to blame or the phone manufacturers. I just don't like the idea of owning a 1 GHz CPU and an awesome GPU (Samsung Galaxy S) and not being able to use it.
Sorry to bump an old thread.
Has there been any progress on this issue?
Using spare parts and setting all the window animations and transitions to very slow has made everything "smoother" to me for all purposes of discussion. during the slow but smooth transition, my phone has time to fully load the next screen or popup menu, therefore it all appears to happen seamlessly.
android is very smooth on my Hd2 ... Did you try a cyanogen mod build ?
Sorry, i was referring more towards the GPU being actively used by the UI front end.
Im using a Legend with Azure's cyanogen mod (froyo) things are pretty slick but I can tell when there are slowdowns, but the worst offender is definately the web browser.
The best example I can find is going to the html5 test website, I get a score of around 180 and the iphone about 140, but the legend browser (built in and Dolphin) really struggles to scroll that page, whereas on the Iphone its extremely smooth. Its these kind of inconsistencies which are annoying.
Another gripe is the whole portrait-landscape switch, its not gpu based in the least and its a rather half assed solution at the minute (visually). But I understand that no app could ever interfere with how this works as its so deep in the os? Such a shame.
I work in animation which is why im overly critical
I posted this in another forum, thought I will re-post it here.
I had Ipad2 for 2 weeks and returned it. Once you use android tablet for a week, you can't go back to Ipad 2.
There are lot of reasons to choose android over ipad. Couple of examples:
=> Google maps kicks ass in android. IPad also has google maps, but its crippled - there are no reviews, no 3D view, no rotating using multi-touch, etc..
=> Widgets make a big difference in the 10" screen. You get the see emails, weather, calendar in the main screen, esp. with re-sizable widgets. Switch on the tablet, look at important stuff, move on with your life. In Ipad, you need to search for the three apps in the sea of icons, open one, close, look for next app and so on. There's a sea of difference in usability.
=> Android task bar has short cuts to change lot of settings like brightness and is available without the need to close the app that you are on. Say, you are reading a webpage that has a link to youtube. For reading you may like low brightness, but video with dark background requires more brightness. Steps to change screen brightness in IPad: you need to close the current app, search for settings icon in the sea of app icons, open settings, look for 'screen' settings, open the settings, look for brightness control, change brightness, double tap the hardware button to see the previous app, click it to open where you were. In honeycomb, you just click the task bar icon, change brightness, done. Now, that's usability.
=> Ipad is 4:3, pretty useless for viewing videos/movies. Watching 16:9 movies in Ipad is painful. Netflix works in Ipad (in the works for android, not out yet), but I honestly couldn't use it in Ipad because of the 4:3 screen. It's like watching movie on the old CRT screen.
=> IPad has no flash.
=> IPad has no back button. Every app implements 'back' functionality in their own way. You need to search for the 'back' button in every app. It gets frustrating very fast. Android has a beautiful back button that's available always and behaves exactly the same way in every app. It's magical. Really.
This is just the tip of iceberg. The list goes on and on.
If you are not big on games, then the several thousand apps in the app store means nothing. Because every useful app has a counterpart in honeycomb.
I know this is a android/gtab 10.1 forum so we'll be obviously biased, but what do you think of ipad?
I agree with everything you have said - not to mention the specs are under that of the 10.1, and if the rumors are true around the place there will be an updated model either at the time of the release of the 4G (unlikely), or within a few months after...
I am crossing my fingers and waiting for the rumors to be confirmed because if an updated model with wqxga (retina display competitor) 300+ dpi, plus microSD (if it's not released with the coming model), and possible quad core cpu (although it might just be the exynos 1.2Ghz), comes out within that sort of time frame then bugger me you are already beating the released 'possible' specs of the 2012/2013 release of iPad3!
lol - I am seriously excited about the 10.1. I have no doubt it is going to rock the crap out of the iPad2 for all the reasons you have stated and many more.
I have no concerns about possible build issues with the device as I have an Omnia 2 which is the same high grade plastics they are using in the 10.1 and i have dropped it many many many times - the phone has no issues, no cracking no warping etc it is just like the day i bought it (with some minor scratches of course).
Also people say customer service is crap for Samsung - well that depends on the country you are in and your expectations but let me tell you here in the philippines where customer service for the majority of companies is unheard of, I have had my screen replaced on the Omnia 2 when i had some white dots appear (probably due to me dropping it down some stairs on to concrete), no questions asked, within 3 to 5 days. and that was with a cooked rom that came up with a naughty boot message.
So yeah I don't blame you for trading in your iPad2
I started writing out this long response on all the positive points I see with the iPad 2 over the Galaxy Tab 10.1. Not because I think the iPad 2 is better. Just wanted to point out some of the iPad's strengths because I do think the device is pretty good.
But I like the Galaxy Tab 10.1 more, got worried I might come off wrong and get riped apart like a rabbit before a pack of wolves. Haha.
So instead of the long post, I'll just give a brief short list of what I consider some pros for the iPad 2 over the Galaxy Tab 10.1... and I emphasis I still like the Galaxy Tab 10.1 more and am waiting to buy one.
* Over 50,000 tablet optimized apps. Original iPad came out over a year and has been massively successful. Apple has a huge head start. I think the Android optimized apps still count in the low hundreds right now. And I often see lesser quality with the Android versions. It'll improve, but it's going to take time.
* iOS is more stable. 3.1 has helped, Android Market doesn't bug out on me as much. But there are still stability issues with Honeycomb. I'm a little fearful to install too many apps on my Android tablets because I've had some apps have a negative impact on the entire tablet's performance. Even Motorola's CEO commented recently on this being a concern. iOS on the other hand I have no fear installing everything I see (had over 120 apps on my iPad 1) without fear of performance issues.
* iPad has excellent standby battery life. I can leave the iPad asleep for 24 hours and find it the next day still at 99 or 100% battery life. My Android tablets seem to lose about 25% or more battery life a day just sleeping. I wish more review sites would measure this. I'm curious how much it varies between Android tablets and wouldn't mind seeing more light shed on the issue.
There are other things I could bring up. But generally iPad's strength is the maturity and polishness of it's OS, it's 1 year head start and massive number quality apps.
Still. An exciting thing about Android is this is it's first tablet OS, I think things are moving fast for Android, and we get to be along for the ride. It's only going to keep getting better. And we are already blessed with amazing freedom, flexibility, and customization options. This is what I love about Android.
And I had seriously thought about getting an iPad 2. There are some apps I know I like much more on iOS than Android. But I feel like I'm just giving up way too much control for that. And I think the apps will get better here.
Ravynmagi said:
* iPad has excellent standby battery life. I can leave the iPad asleep for 24 hours and find it the next day still at 99 or 100% battery life. My Android tablets seem to lose about 25% or more battery life a day just sleeping. I wish more review sites would measure this. I'm curious how much it varies between Android tablets and wouldn't mind seeing more light shed on the issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, this is weird. Samsung has a bigger battery, but 2 1/2 hours less runtime on the Anandtech review.
Again I agree with everything you said as well and as far as summaries are concerned you are probably summing up the majority opinion on the overall apple or something else debate.
I am an intel person myself because of that very freedom Apple lacks. I love intel because if I want to dual boot, or just feel like blowing my machine away and running pure linux, or windows or whatever even a hacked version of OSX, I can do that. You go apple, you have to use their hardware - while it is pretty sexy etc it is expensive and you can't mix and match the way you can with intel or make your own best of breed monster. If it had of been they didn't customise OSX to only run on apple hardware i probably would have switched to OSX and been laughing - but again they chose to limit their market and for whatever reason maintain the big f you apple sentiment (maybe just in my opinion only )
The same goes for the tablets - with IOS you are stuck with IOS - you can jailbreak it but with more and more difficulty, and gain access to 100,000's of really cool apps and games, it seems to flow a bit better (well at least in the iphone arena) than other OS's etc but at the end of the day you are stuck with IOS and their way of doing things as otherhawkeye said in his/her post.
My biggest dislikes re apple mobile technology - no common connectivity options (micro usb connector), cannot remove the battery and replace it yourself, no microSD, limited to itunes for a lot of things, lack of common options like gps, 3g etc until their customers all complain and then they add one in and then their customers complain some more and they add some more in. Some people like to be ripped off and jerked around and played like the fools apple must think of the majority of people out there... but sorry it's just not to my liking.
I have to give props to Samsung for actually stating once Apple had released iPad2 that they were going to delay the release of their product revamp it and release a better product because he felt (ceo of samsung) that the 10.1v was inadequate! This is a Korean based company and they are known for quality - that is what the Korean's pride themselves on - best quality from clothes, food, appliances, cars etc - you ask a Korean and they will say everything of theirs is better quality than anywhere else from rice to well everything. That's the mindset they have ... so while it may not always be the case in the real world and is a little biased etc, you have a company trying to live up to that ethos and saying while the 10.1v is good and in many ways still better than the competition they can make it better before finally releasing it.
Apple - ummm well just look here and see what has changed from iPad 1 to iPad2 http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/02/ipad-2-vs-original-ipad-whats-changed this is a YEAR between release dates also....
Remember this is an entirely NEW product yet only a few things have changed. and the cameras they added in are of particularly crap quality according to many reviews. Pleeeease don't tell me that they couldn't have included a better camera, please don't tell me they couldn't include a microSD card, or micro USB or put in the retina display like they did for the iPhone4, or a host of other things that are in smaller devices already. Your probably going to talk quality control and proper lead time for adding in things right - or give other reasons why they don't want to "clutter" the thing with microSD or micro USB etc but ... faf that!
As I have said in my previous post there are already hints that later this year (we're already half way through), that Samsung will more than likely release another version of the same tab with a few extras, if they don't release them along with the 4g version... this is the same product getting revamped for the 2nd time WITHIN the same year! Why? It would be nice to think of it as living up to the ethos but I like to think that it's more that they are sick of Apple releasing inferior products and cleaning up the market with hype and sexiness and they really want to stick it to Apple.....
lol I hope that doesn't come off as apple bashing too much....
Ravynmagi said:
There are other things I could bring up. But generally iPad's strength is the maturity and polishness of it's OS, it's 1 year head start and massive number quality apps.
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Click to collapse
I'm not sure about the "more polishness", but its more stable than honeycomb. I think honeycomb is more polished than ios, but it's less stable right now due to the FCs.
About battery life - honeycomb tablets don't have bad battery life. 8-10 hours battery life is not bad. Apple does have couple of more hours of battery life and better standby battery life, but then we are now in the bragging rights territory. If you charge every day and not going on international trips, the extra hour of battery life is not going to matter to most of the tablet buyers.
Same goes for app store. You said you have 120 apps installed in your ipad, average person has 5 to 20. Honeycomb had every app *I* wanted. The quality of third party apps was similar between Ipad and Honeycomb. But YMMV. If a person needs a specialized app that's not available in HC, then they need to stick with Ipad. OTOH, google apps are vastly superior to the ones in Ipad. That was the deciding factor for me.
Is it true that iPhone apps do not scale on the iPad? I am sure I heard this somewhere, but I cannot imagine it's true.
With that said, while there are not many Honeycomb-specific apps, at least most pre-3.0 apps play nice with HC (upscaling for screen size).
I had a brief time (about 3 hours) where I thought the iPad2 would be a better option for me than the Galaxy Tab 10.1. Luckily, I was talked off the ledge. The only thing that had me leaning towards the Pad is tablet-specific apps, but in the end most of my tablet usage is through the browser.
What sealed the deal in my getting the Galaxy Tab 10.1 was the deep integration of Google services. Until iOS5 comes out, there is definitely nothing on the iPad that holds a candles to Google's Android-account management system (not that I'm aware of, but I an ignorant on this subject).
mightymouse2045 said:
Again I agree with everything you said as well and as far as summaries are concerned you are probably summing up the majority opinion on the overall apple or something else debate.
I am an intel person myself because of that very freedom Apple lacks. I love intel because if I want to dual boot, or just feel like blowing my machine away and running pure linux, or windows or whatever even a hacked version of OSX, I can do that. You go apple, you have to use their hardware - while it is pretty sexy etc it is expensive and you can't mix and match the way you can with intel or make your own best of breed monster. If it had of been they didn't customise OSX to only run on apple hardware i probably would have switched to OSX and been laughing - but again they chose to limit their market and for whatever reason maintain the big f you apple sentiment (maybe just in my opinion only )
The same goes for the tablets - with IOS you are stuck with IOS - you can jailbreak it but with more and more difficulty, and gain access to 100,000's of really cool apps and games, it seems to flow a bit better (well at least in the iphone arena) than other OS's etc but at the end of the day you are stuck with IOS and their way of doing things as otherhawkeye said in his/her post.
My biggest dislikes re apple mobile technology - no common connectivity options (micro usb connector), cannot remove the battery and replace it yourself, no microSD, limited to itunes for a lot of things, lack of common options like gps, 3g etc until their customers all complain and then they add one in and then their customers complain some more and they add some more in. Some people like to be ripped off and jerked around and played like the fools apple must think of the majority of people out there... but sorry it's just not to my liking.
I have to give props to Samsung for actually stating once Apple had released iPad2 that they were going to delay the release of their product revamp it and release a better product because he felt (ceo of samsung) that the 10.1v was inadequate! This is a Korean based company and they are known for quality - that is what the Korean's pride themselves on - best quality from clothes, food, appliances, cars etc - you ask a Korean and they will say everything of theirs is better quality than anywhere else from rice to well everything. That's the mindset they have ... so while it may not always be the case in the real world and is a little biased etc, you have a company trying to live up to that ethos and saying while the 10.1v is good and in many ways still better than the competition they can make it better before finally releasing it.
Apple - ummm well just look here and see what has changed from iPad 1 to iPad2 http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/02/ipad-2-vs-original-ipad-whats-changed this is a YEAR between release dates also....
Remember this is an entirely NEW product yet only a few things have changed. and the cameras they added in are of particularly crap quality according to many reviews. Pleeeease don't tell me that they couldn't have included a better camera, please don't tell me they couldn't include a microSD card, or micro USB or put in the retina display like they did for the iPhone4, or a host of other things that are in smaller devices already. Your probably going to talk quality control and proper lead time for adding in things right - or give other reasons why they don't want to "clutter" the thing with microSD or micro USB etc but ... faf that!
As I have said in my previous post there are already hints that later this year (we're already half way through), that Samsung will more than likely release another version of the same tab with a few extras, if they don't release them along with the 4g version... this is the same product getting revamped for the 2nd time WITHIN the same year! Why? It would be nice to think of it as living up to the ethos but I like to think that it's more that they are sick of Apple releasing inferior products and cleaning up the market with hype and sexiness and they really want to stick it to Apple.....
lol I hope that doesn't come off as apple bashing too much....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
umm.. you do realize that apple computer run on intel chips, right? saying that you're "an intel person" doesn't really many any sense..
anyway, you say that the ipad sucks because they use proprietary ports, don't have sd, etc. but... the galaxy tab 10.1 doesn't have those things either
ralexand said:
Is it true that iPhone apps do not scale on the iPad? I am sure I heard this somewhere, but I cannot imagine it's true.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's true. iPhone apps run on iPad /w the same resolution (occupy a tiny area in the middle of the tablet) or 2x the resolution (occupy most of the tablet screen, but /w blurry text, etc.). Either way, I found it unusable.
OTOH, many, but not all, phone apps run well in HC. They scale nicely and you would hardly know that they are not designed for HC. Case in point, engadget app or many of the news apps.
smaskell said:
umm.. you do realize that apple computer run on intel chips, right? saying that you're "an intel person" doesn't really many any sense..
anyway, you say that the ipad sucks because they use proprietary ports, don't have sd, etc. but... the galaxy tab 10.1 doesn't have those things either
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Click to collapse
lol yes i know they changed over to intel hardware - however OSX only supports their combination of hardware, won't install on other hardware etc unless you get the hacked boot image and then the drivers that are in the 'hacked' OSX support some hardware and not others and the hardware that is supported it varies on either partial support to full support. when i played with it last year i could only get a single gpu working on my dual gpu video card, no wifi support, no 3d effects, multi threading and virtual support and some other issues that I just wasn't willing to accept. They have a kickass OS why don't they release it to the masses - because they want you to buy the hardware as well from them to get more money. It's like the Catholic church - the only path to God is through the church.
The intel man statement was more meant to describe the freedom you have when using intel based hardware, windows and linux OS's compared with if you go OSX and in the past risc based Apple - you need apple hardware. I like open standards, compatibility and choices for my computing experience.
Yes I am aware of the 'potentially' missing microSD port, and the proprietary 30 pin port to USB cable it comes with. You didn't read what I said about possible 2nd revamp and release of another version which would include the microSD along with an even better screen and maybe a quad core later this year?
Look through some other posts about what supercurio is saying about the current gtab 10.1 - transformer has a screen - gtab 10.1's screen is art, and other comments comparing ips (apple) to pls (gtab 10.1).
mightymouse2045 said:
lol yes i know they changed over to intel hardware - however OSX only supports their combination of hardware, won't install on other hardware etc unless you get the hacked boot image and then the drivers that are in the 'hacked' OSX support some hardware and not others and the hardware that is supported it varies on either partial support to full support. when i played with it last year i could only get a single gpu working on my dual gpu video card, no wifi support, no 3d effects, multi threading and virtual support and some other issues that I just wasn't willing to accept. They have a kickass OS why don't they release it to the masses - because they want you to buy the hardware as well from them to get more money. It's like the Catholic church - the only path to God is through the church.
The intel man statement was more meant to describe the freedom you have when using intel based hardware, windows and linux OS's compared with if you go OSX and in the past risc based Apple - you need apple hardware. I like open standards, compatibility and choices for my computing experience.
Yes I am aware of the 'potentially' missing microSD port, and the proprietary 30 pin port to USB cable it comes with. You didn't read what I said about possible 2nd revamp and release of another version which would include the microSD along with an even better screen and maybe a quad core later this year?
Look through some other posts about what supercurio is saying about the current gtab 10.1 - transformer has a screen - gtab 10.1's screen is art, and other comments comparing ips (apple) to pls (gtab 10.1).
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Click to collapse
Yes, of course. I couldn't agree more. Just thought it was a bit of an odd way of putting it haha.
So my company bought Ipad 2's to integrate with our business. I suggested we get android tablets because they work better. So end result they didn't listen and bought them anyway. We have smart tags all over our showroom that play videos about our products. They wanted to use the Ipad to let the customers walk around and use the tags to watch the videos. So yesterday one of the managers tries to use it and I notice he looks frustrated. So I pull out my Transformer walk over there and scan the tab and the video plays smooth as butter. He looks at me and says WTF. I said oh Steve Jobs doesn't believe in flash. Hmm those ipads are great huh and walked away. PWNED!
Sent from my Inspire 4G using XDA App
Nice!
My Transformer and my DHD pwn iPads and iPhones almost on a daily basis at my workplace.
I don't see why business would pick an iOS tablet over Android. iOs is so restrictive on what you can do and prevents you from being productive in the process.
RRtexasranger said:
I don't see why business would pick an iOS tablet over Android. iOs is so restrictive on what you can do and prevents you from being productive in the process.
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Click to collapse
Have you ever worked in IT in a business? Some manager with AP sign off ability makes snap decisions on hardware/software, expects IT to support it and then often it just ends up in a storeroom somewhere until its broken, sold or "lost." Its never touched again because the original idea was abandoned or IT eventually applied what was really needed.
Not that I have any personal experience or anything....
ryan stewart said:
Have you ever worked in IT in a business? Some manager with AP sign off ability makes snap decisions on hardware/software, expects IT to support it and then often it just ends up in a storeroom somewhere until its broken, sold or "lost." Its never touched again because the original idea was abandoned or IT eventually applied what was really needed.
Not that I have any personal experience or anything....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya my boss has a ipad as well and really liked this thing when I took it into work
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
RRtexasranger said:
I don't see why business would pick an iOS tablet over Android. iOs is so restrictive on what you can do and prevents you from being productive in the process.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is exactly why a business would pick iOS. Businesss' favorite devices are BlackBerries, not because they have the most powerful processor, best games, and super-quick facebook access, but because they can be remotely wiped/locked, every setting (from bluetooth to language) can be set via group policy, and everything going into/out of the phone (phone calls, texts, Internet access) can be monitored. And it has been that way for a long time.
When you are buying devices for your company, you want that control. iOS are probably second best in that aspect (and do pretty well with the right software loaded like MobileIron). Android is lacking. It wasn't until the last year (I think) that android officially supported "device administrators" and the ability to enforce pin usage and/or remote wipe. It's getting better, but before Android devices are allowed to access company file shares, Exchange servers, etc., they are going to have to improve significantly.
As a personal choice, I would take a Transformer over an iPad any day. If I was buying for my small business of 2-8 employees, it might be a toss up. If I was buying more than 10 devices though or if my business touched anything with PII or government-regulated data, I wouldn't touch Android.
rtadams89 said:
That is exactly why a business would pick iOS. Businesss' favorite devices are BlackBerries, not because they have the most powerful processor, best games, and super-quick facebook access, but because they can be remotely wiped/locked, every setting (from bluetooth to language) can be set via group policy, and everything going into/out of the phone (phone calls, texts, Internet access) can be monitored. And it has been that way for a long time.
When you are buying devices for your company, you want that control. iOS are probably second best in that aspect (and do pretty well with the right software loaded like MobileIron). Android is lacking. It wasn't until the last year (I think) that android officially supported "device administrators" and the ability to enforce pin usage and/or remote wipe. It's getting better, but before Android devices are allowed to access company file shares, Exchange servers, etc., they are going to have to improve significantly.
As a personal choice, I would take a Transformer over an iPad any day. If I was buying for my small business of 2-8 employees, it might be a toss up. If I was buying more than 10 devices though or if my business touched anything with PII or government-regulated data, I wouldn't touch Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Neither Android nor iOS are designed to fit well with existing Microsoft-based infrastructure, and that's precisely the point. If you migrate over to Google Apps, there's no longer any need to purchase several server clusters for the purpose of providing basic email, calendar, and productivity applications to your user base. Just upgrade your pipe with your ISP to handle the increased bandwidth required for cloud services, and then you can toss out a large portion of your local infrastructure, saving massive amounts of money on energy, upkeep, and licensing costs. Apple is in the process of offering the same with the iCloud suite.
The older IT pros typically think it's an incredibly stupid idea to just throw out all that hard work that went into designing and implementing a Microsoft-based business infrastructure, instead focusing on getting all the new technology to play nice with Exchange and Office. But you have to understand that there's a reason why they don't play nice out of the box, and that reason is money, and, to a lesser extent, competition. Where's the profit in it for Microsoft if they make an Android app that makes Exchange integration flawless, when they could wait a year and force feed you Windows Phone 7 and Windows 8 with complete support built in? It doesn't make any business sense to run two or more competing operating systems, and therefore you're never going to get seamless integration in such environments.
If you're a business that runs mainly on Microsoft services, then you should only buy Microsoft products in order to assure easy migration and interoperability. If you instead see more usability value in upgrading your client machines to Google or Apple devices, then you should be looking to migrate your infrastructure over as well.
I also bought a Transformer over the advice of many 'experts' to get an iPAd.
Android rules.
I have both an iPad 1 and now a Transformer. While I haven't touched my iPad since I got the Transformer, there ARE a few things I miss about the iPad:
1. Software - Sorry, but right now, even when an app does exist for both iOS and Android, the iOS version is way better. It looks better and it runs better (especially games). For exampe, the LogMeIn app in Android is just horrible, which the iOS version is simply awesome. Pinball HD runs better on my iPad 1, etc.... And that's with half the CPU power!
2. Build quality - I think my iPad 1 is almost indestructible. My Transformer - not so much...
3. Screen - while the screen in the transformer is nice (2nd best I've seen), the iPad display is better.
Of courese, Android is catching up on #1... A little more time should fix this one.
0
For #2, hey - strong is nice, but I'm not really that "hard" on my tablets, so this one is not a big deal (for me).
And finally for #3 - Again, the screens in Android tablets are getting better and better. Hopefully, they'll be able to match the iPad screen someday, because I don't see myself going back to iOS - I love the flexibility that Android provides me. Don't get me wrong - Android has it's own shortcomings, but I think it''ll always be more open and more powerful than iOS.
Just my 2 cents...
jtrosky said:
I have both an iPad 1 and now a Transformer. While I haven't touched my iPad since I got the Transformer, there ARE a few things I miss about the iPad:
1. Software - Sorry, but right now, even when an app does exist for both iOS and Android, the iOS version is way better. It looks better and it runs better (especially games). For exampe, the LogMeIn app in Android is just horrible, which the iOS version is simply awesome. Pinball HD runs better on my iPad 1, etc.... And that's with half the CPU power!
2. Build quality - I think my iPad 1 is almost indestructible. My Transformer - not so much...
3. Screen - while the screen in the transformer is nice (2nd best I've seen), the iPad display is better.
Of courese, Android is catching up on #1... A little more time should fix this one.
0
For #2, hey - strong is nice, but I'm not really that "hard" on my tablets, so this one is not a big deal (for me).
And finally for #3 - Again, the screens in Android tablets are getting better and better. Hopefully, they'll be able to match the iPad screen someday, because I don't see myself going back to iOS - I love the flexibility that Android provides me. Don't get me wrong - Android has it's own shortcomings, but I think it''ll always be more open and more powerful than iOS.
Just my 2 cents...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what exactly about the ipad's screen is better? the odd aspect ratio, the lower resolution?
i find the ips panel in the TF to be far nicer than the ips panel from my old ipad.
I can't pinpoint what it is about the screen - I think it's just that the colors aren't as vibrant or as uniform as they are on the iPad (in my opinion, of course). Like I said, it's a nice screen, but I still think the iPads have better screens.
Of course, the iPad cost a lot more too...
jtrosky said:
I can't pinpoint what it is about the screen - I think it's just that the colors aren't as vibrant or as uniform as they are on the iPad (in my opinion, of course). Like I said, it's a nice screen, but I still think the iPads have better screens.
Of course, the iPad cost a lot more too...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Perhaps it's your rose tinted Apple specs....
Seriously, I know 3 people at work with ipad2s and they all sold them and bought Transformers after using mine.... That's 3 people that might actually spend 10 minutes before a big purchase investigating alternatives, rather than just buying what they know and what's got the biggest marketing budget...
earlyberd said:
Neither Android nor iOS are designed to fit well with existing Microsoft-based infrastructure, and that's precisely the point. If you migrate over to Google Apps, there's no longer any need to purchase several server clusters for the purpose of providing basic email, calendar, and productivity applications to your user base. Just upgrade your pipe with your ISP to handle the increased bandwidth required for cloud services, and then you can toss out a large portion of your local infrastructure, saving massive amounts of money on energy, upkeep, and licensing costs. Apple is in the process of offering the same with the iCloud suite.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android and iOS, work okay in Microsoft infrastructures as well as Lotus based infrastructures, but it does take some work and they could be smoother certainly.
The older IT pros typically think it's an incredibly stupid idea to just throw out all that hard work that went into designing and implementing a Microsoft-based business infrastructure, instead focusing on getting all the new technology to play nice with Exchange and Office. But you have to understand that there's a reason why they don't play nice out of the box, and that reason is money, and, to a lesser extent, competition. Where's the profit in it for Microsoft if they make an Android app that makes Exchange integration flawless, when they could wait a year and force feed you Windows Phone 7 and Windows 8 with complete support built in? It doesn't make any business sense to run two or more competing operating systems, and therefore you're never going to get seamless integration in such environments.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While I understand your reasoning at a certain level, Microsoft is very careful here, they were found to be a monopoly and forced to provide APIs for seemless integration at the same level that they use. Microsoft can not hide APIs anymore without some serious scrutiny from the EU and even the US. And honestly, Microsoft doesn't make much on the client side, each client is only gaining them a few dollars, on the servers side, each license is netting them far more money. Making Android seamless to their server makes them money, ignoring Android makes them nothing.
If you're a business that runs mainly on Microsoft services, then you should only buy Microsoft products in order to assure easy migration and interoperability. If you instead see more usability value in upgrading your client machines to Google or Apple devices, then you should be looking to migrate your infrastructure over as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think this will happen for most companies. Large companies do not trust Google to host their emails, and with good reason. There is no assurance that when I delete an email it really goes away on Google. If Google has the feds show up asking for an email and they have it, they will provide it and you may never know about it. Try doing that to a company mail server. Large companies are risk adverse, controlling their space allows them to protect themselves. Now small/mid size companies do see the cloud for their email and other things as a good deal, they don't have to man up data centers and keep the lights on and AC running in them. Leave that to the cloud and just use it.
By the way Google isn't the only game in town either. There are other options for business hosting in the cloud that are also available. What would really help is a normalization of a sync technology that would allow for easy plug-ability into different systems while providing a seamless integration at the glass.
adiliyo said:
what exactly about the ipad's screen is better? the odd aspect ratio, the lower resolution?
i find the ips panel in the TF to be far nicer than the ips panel from my old ipad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
jtrosky said:
I can't pinpoint what it is about the screen - I think it's just that the colors aren't as vibrant or as uniform as they are on the iPad (in my opinion, of course). Like I said, it's a nice screen, but I still think the iPads have better screens.
Of course, the iPad cost a lot more too...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im pretty sure its been confirmed that the TFs screen operates at a lower bit depth than the ipad. Being said correct application of software can mostly normalize this, unfortunately the gallery software doesnt, meaning pictures will just plain look better on the ipad because the color ranges that arent covered will have more "noise" in them. Dont know if 3rd party gallery softwares have resolved this.
CrazyPeter said:
Perhaps it's your rose tinted Apple specs....
Seriously, I know 3 people at work with ipad2s and they all sold them and bought Transformers after using mine.... That's 3 people that might actually spend 10 minutes before a big purchase investigating alternatives, rather than just buying what they know and what's got the biggest marketing budget...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, and out of those three, how many said...gee...browsing sucks compared to my old iPad, or....where is all the honeycomb software..this is all we got?....or how come my transformers battery does not last as long as my old iPad unless I turn it off....or how in the hell do you type on this while on the web....there is a huge lag...or why does the screen lag so bad.....and my favorite one....why cant I get Netflix to work?...or how come games suck...
I hope ice cream will take care of the above problems. Or even kal- el will.
H3llb0und said:
Nice!
My Transformer and my DHD pwn iPads and iPhones almost on a daily basis at my workplace.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same set up here same result
DESIRE HD using leedroid. ASUS TRANSFORMER using prime
i got tft few days ago and i love it.
high resolution (ipad lower). battery is great. ipad sucks for os. cant dowload anything.
only thing ipad is better is more apps
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using XDA Premium App
jtrosky said:
3. Screen - while the screen in the transformer is nice (2nd best I've seen), the iPad display is better.
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Sorry, I cannot agree on this. Screen quality is the same (contrast, colour, unfortunately the glossiness too), but Transformer has better resolution (aspect ratio - I'm not sure which is better). I compared my Transformer to both iPad 1 and iPad 2 and the screen is just the same. (And my cheap EIZO monitor beats both of them in colour reproduction, contrast and black level - but on tablet I don't need those that much . I'm really happy with this monitor though, it's the first LCD I have that beats my old CRT on all fronts, not only on some. )
On the other points you are right.
Magnesus said:
Sorry, I cannot agree on this. Screen quality is the same (contrast, colour, unfortunately the glossiness too), but Transformer has better resolution (aspect ratio - I'm not sure which is better). I compared my Transformer to both iPad 1 and iPad 2 and the screen is just the same. (And my cheap EIZO monitor beats both of them in colour reproduction, contrast and black level - but on tablet I don't need those that much . I'm really happy with this monitor though, it's the first LCD I have that beats my old CRT on all fronts, not only on some. )
On the other points you are right.
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That is a good point (the glossiness) - my iPad 1 has an anti-glare screen protector on it and my Transformer does not - maybe that's the difference that I am seeing...
I just ordered some (two, because I usually screw up the first one) SGP UltaFine anti-glare protectors as the glare drives me nuts.... We'll see if that changes my opinion at all...
I have the answer to why people go with Apple. There used to be a saying in tech., "You can't go wrong buying IBM". For better or worse, an updated saying would be, "You can't go wrong buying Apple".
There is also the general misconception that Apple owns the smart phone market. Primarily caused by the fact that Apple advertises wayyyy more than any tech. company.
I think there is a lot of fear out there that Android is fragmented and less secure. There is probably some truth to the latter, but I think it's overblown.
I have to give Apple the nod for software, but my having compared Apples to Androids (), Android OS is far ahead of iOS. iOS just feels old and clunky compared Android. The caps lock doesn't update the upper/lower case on keyboard, really??? The back button is on the top of the screen and home is on the bottom? This forces the user to hyper extend their thumb or use two hands to use the device. Fail!
FYI: We are looking at mobile and I love telling people that our Flex app. just runs my Transformer.
Title pretty much says it all, incredibly lazy design philosophy. I get supporting that disgusting notch because people are idiots and pick ugly things, but forcing everyone to have the same experience when they could otherwise design things to work differently depending on whether your device is notched or not is reprehensible. Par for the course with Google unfortunately, but I needed to air my grievance, and I'm willing to bet others will enjoy joining in.
I don't fully understand the issue. Google made Pie to support a notch, the pixel 2 does not have one and it runs Pie. Therefore, Pie supports both notched and un notched phones. Is this all because the time has moved to the left?
k.s.deviate said:
I don't fully understand the issue. Google made Pie to support a notch, the pixel 2 does not have one and it runs Pie. Therefore, Pie supports both notched and un notched phones. Is this all because the time has moved to the left?
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Maybe the OP did vent his air well enough. I think he meant to say about the HW design, not SW design.
Tekken Lord said:
Maybe the OP did vent his air well enough. I think he meant to say about the HW design, not SW design.
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He mentions software though and how it works the same without notch or not. I think he's hangry. Apparently the clock moving is serious business.
crixley said:
He mentions software though and how it works the same without notch or not. I think he's hangry. Apparently the clock moving is serious business.
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I think the notifications layout across the top assumes there may be a notch there, so they avoid the space taken by the notch even if there's no notch. That is a bit of a waste of space, so to speak.
Since I don't leave large numbers of notifications piled up the only difference it makes to me is where the clock is (using 9 since the start of July, never seen the "more notifications not displayed" symbol).
In principle it would be better if it adjusted the number of notifications it shows to the size of the notch (if any), but in practice for me personally it's a non-issue.
Mine seems to fill that area just fine
crixley said:
Mine seems to fill that area just fine
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Dot to the right of the 'm' on the left shows no room for any more icons, even though there clearly is.
WibblyW said:
Dot to the right of the 'm' on the left shows no room for any more icons, even though there clearly is.
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Huh? That's my voicemail icon. I'm more so talking about the right, didn't have that many icons on the left
It's naive to say they are "lazy." Keep in mind that from a cost and design perspective, they can't cater to every little side request from customers. Understand that from a manufacturing and cost perspective, given their resources, it may simply not be feasible for them to support both.
From a software perspective, that also would require changes to support both form factors.
Artemis-kun said:
Title pretty much says it all, incredibly lazy design philosophy. I get supporting that disgusting notch because people are idiots and pick ugly things, but forcing everyone to have the same experience when they could otherwise design things to work differently depending on whether your device is notched or not is reprehensible. Par for the course with Google unfortunately, but I needed to air my grievance, and I'm willing to bet others will enjoy joining in.
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I agree! The fact that you can only see up to 3 notification icons at a given time is stupid to me considering how much screen real estate is left for phones without a notch. I don't typically leave many notifications to build up, but you can't avoid those times when notifications come in while you're away from your phone or asleep. A quick glance to see what's important vs what can wait goes a long way toward the user experience.
Google messed this up just like they messed up by replacing the notification ticker in KitKat with the obtrusive banners in Lolipop.