Database Users

CM 6 Stuck on boot screen

I didn't want this to be my first post and I've been holding out for a couple of days now, but here goes.
When the CM6.0 zip installation finishes, I tell clockwork to Reboot Now.
When it reboots, I get the white screen with green HTC letters. I do not ever get to the screen with the black writing on it. It then proceeds to the cyanogen mod boot screen with the swirling circle, but that's all it ever does. It will stay in the "boot loop" forever if I let it. The phone never progresses past that point.
I am able to do a nandroid recovery back to before the CM6 ROM and everything is OK, but its not FROYO nor is it rooted. I followed the instructions from here //forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=730002
Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Are you connected to the PC when you reboot?

No, I've tried twice and both times I was unplugged.
Let me run down some quick troubleshooting answers
I used CyanogenMod-6.0.0-liberty-signed.zip
I have the Android USB Drivers
I installed HTC Sync, but uninstalled to leave the drivers.
HBOOT is good
Clockwork installed like clockwork.
I did not install the Android SDK, I didn't think this mattered since I had the drivers from the Sync install.

Your best bet is to hop in the IRC and ask for help. http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#liberatedAria

I'll have to get on when I get off of work. Thanks for the linkage and taking a look at my issue!

OK, so the guys over on the IRC helped me out....very quickly I might add. I didn't want to start a new thread for this very reason...super simple fix!
My issue was that I did not perform a wipe through clockwork before installing cm6.zip.
According to Yoshiofthewire and jznomoney, the cyanogen boot loader will loop if the old HTC files are still on there. Performing the wipe through clockwork and reflashing did the trick!
Thanks to you all! now to set the rest of the phone up. Amazing resource!

matroe11 said:
OK, so the guys over on the IRC helped me out....very quickly I might add. I didn't want to start a new thread for this very reason...super simple fix!
My issue was that I did not perform a wipe through clockwork before installing cm6.zip.
According to Yoshiofthewire and jznomoney, the cyanogen boot loader will loop if the old HTC files are still on there. Performing the wipe through clockwork and reflashing did the trick!
Thanks to you all! now to set the rest of the phone up. Amazing resource!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem. I was gonna suggest that you didn't wipe, but I wasn't sure without being able to talk to you. Figured it was faster to send you to IRC. Glad everything is working. Enjoy.

[Q] Error formatting /data!

Self-dangerous noob here. NC 1.2, theoretically returned to stock
History:
Got NC 1.2
Rooted w/ManualNooter 4.5.25. Everything seemed to go great. So...
Downloaded, backed up, and flashed CM7 in ROM Manager
Wouldn't boot...hung on n COLOR screen
Same results w/ Phirerom (CM7 based - doh)
Able to restore MN4.5.25 from CWM - BUT noticed "Error formatting /data!" during nandroid restore. Didn't seem to matter...restore successful
Get "Error formatting /data!" no matter what
Able to boot into CM7 from SD, but it has "problems". For instance, there are no "back" or "return" softkeys. So there is no way to navigate around any app! Only the hard "n" home key works
Reflashed stock 1.2
Seemed to work, began to ask me to reregister. BUT, it won't display the keyboard, so I'm stuck at the "Login with your existing B&N...." screen! Keyboard flashes up and then immediately disappears!
As an noob, it occurs to me that all my problems are related to my inability to format the /data partition (if it's even called a partition).
Can any of you awesome people help me? And, if I'm in the wrong forum, any directions would also help. Thanks.

Same error here
If anyone can help with this it would be much appreciated.

have you tried removing CWR then do the 8-boot reset?

No, every time I've done it, it boots into CWR. Maybe REMOVING it will help. lol. Sorry to be so inept. I can flash the 1.2 stock that will remove CWR. Is that the way to do it?

Worked like a charm
Removing CWR and 8-boot-interrupts did the trick. I'm now back to a fully stock NC 1.2.0. Ready to roll up my sleeves and re-brick!
This is the most amazing community. The closest thing I have to any technical knowledge is speaking a little Klingon. VERY little. But, I have learned more here by reading these threads for a couple hours...OK, several hours... than my wife has learned in a dozen trips to the apple store. I feel more empowered every day. You are all great. Can't thank you enough.

Goldie, I wasted a bunch of time on this last night. I'm guessing you have a new nook. If you do, slap cwr on your SD (3.0.2.8 or something) and look for the thread that tells you how to repartition your nook. Follow instructions to set it to the old way. After that run manualroot zip through cwr. Reboot to cwr and wipe data, system, cache. Finally install your rom of choice from your SD card through cwr. That's what I did to finally get it to work.

Thanks. I'll give this a try. As you probably guessed, I DO have a new NC, and while I was able to get it back to 100% stock, and easily reregister it, I had the same results. The ONLY way I can get CM7 running is off the SD card. So, I'll try the partitioning trick. Why do I get the feeling this is going to work? Unfortunately, I'm not on dev's time... I'm at work by 7:30am EDT, but in bed pretty early. I REALLY appreciate the response. Later this week I'll install SDK, and all my tools at home so I'll be able to stay up all night with you awesome folks.

still looking for the thread on re-partitioning. I found the thread on restoring, but I get the error every time I try to reformat the /data.

No luck. I can restore to stock 1.2, reregister, and MN 4.5.25, all easily. BUT, once I flash CM7 (or Phiremod 6.3, etc.) it hangs at the "n C O L O R" screen (C O L O R flashing at various speeds just to fool you into thinking it's actually going to work). Here's what I've noticed...after flashing CM7, the ADOBE screen no longer flashes up at boot. Once it fails to boot the Adobe software, it won't boot at all. So, for now, I guess I'm running CM off my SD unless anyone can suggest anything.

Goldie u have to repartition to get it working. Ill go look for the thread. Also maybe you should try out the cm7 mod over the phiremod Tom. I'm on phiremod now and the lag is killing me
Wow that was painful to find. Needs a sticky.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1094371
Edit: I take that back about the lag, set your cpu to 1200 in the ROM and change yourgovernator to interactive for an amazingly smooth experience

I've been going nuts trying to figure this out. I too ran into the "error format /data" message but I powered through it only to end up at at the Android logo--nothing. Out of frustration, I returned to CWR and wiped everything--like on my Evo (did not go through to mounts option). That seemed to go through /data but I don't know the difference between a wipe and a format (I'm looking...). Still got bootloops. I tried to return to stock but the 8 interrupts wouldn't work.
Pressing START and N worked though and that got through to CM7 and it's working great now but I'm afraid to do anything else because I still get the "error formatting /data" message.
I've heard horror stories (bricking beyond repair--if that's possible) of users repartitioning their drives though so... I hope there's another solution out there.

I love this community!!
Sys:
Thanks a million!! Everything perfect!! I just can't say enough about this awesome community, all the amazing devs.

heh you're more than welcome . i hope this helps anyone else that stumbles on your thread as well. Ive been having fun with my nook but i think its time to trade it out for something a little bigger. Maybe ill just wait till att gets its flavor of gs2 idk. So many choices out there!

thanks guys!
i just had the same problem and falshes all kinds
of zips until i found this post.now i've launched cm with status bar
really really thanks

this worked great for me too! i had a nookcolor bought in december and it had a messed up chargerand 6 really bright white spots that were really noticiable. went to b&n store and the guy just gave me a new one. it came with 1.2 and i had the cwm sd from the old one. so tried restoring my cm7 backup from the old one and error formatting data came up. flashed this zip, and im wondering, since these are too different nookcolors, should i restore the cm7 backup or flash it brand new. because i had a ton of stuff on the old one and i dont want to lose it. so can i ust do advanced restore and restore data, or can i restore the whole thing or just flash and slowly get my stuff back?

update cwm
ok not sure if you fixed it or not yet, but i had the same problem for awhile too until i found a post
your probably using cwm 3.0.0.28 just updated it to 3.2.0.1

bl3achcrazy said:
ok not sure if you fixed it or not yet, but i had the same problem for awhile too until i found a post
your probably using cwm 3.0.0.28 just updated it to 3.2.0.1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have tried 3.2.0.1 but get same error message

3.2.0.1 on the bootable card or already on the eMMC? It has to be on the bootable card.

Thanks
It works after getting my nook color around 2pm today and taking it home. I was working on this thing all day I tried several ways and this one worked!!! Having issues with wifi that's all

Stuck in the CW recovery screen, tried everything.

I searched everywhere, but can't find the same problem as mine. I am stuck in the CW recovery screen, after rebooting times after times.
I have been updating the CM9 nightly for a while, didn't have any problem. But when I tried to flash 02-17 nightly, I messed up and in the middle of the install (flash), I hold the power forcing to reboot. Now, it keeps going loop back to the CW recovery screen every time I tried to reboot.
--
I tried to reinstall the whole thing with the boot-able sdcard, but didn't work. please help! someone?
I tried to wipe, reformatted the system, data, cash, boot. Still stack at the cw recovery screen. Help...
I love my nook and have a road trip coming up. It will be nice to watch a kid movie to keep the kids entertained.

Had you flashed CmWR into eMMC?

Check the ROM information on /dev/block/mmcblk0p2.... this sounds a LOT like the problem 12paq had...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1495913

@Dizzyden, thanks for the tip.
I did repartition to 1g/5g awhile back. I am not sure where to start. 12paq tried many things, which one was the solution? Your rombackup.zip?
Many thanks....

@votinh
what do you mean? I am not using the N&O apps or OS. Pure CM9, therefore I guess it is flashed in eMMC. If not, please advice.

DizzyDen said:
Check the ROM information on /dev/block/mmcblk0p2.... this sounds a LOT like the problem 12paq had...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1495913
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how can I check this"Check the ROM information on /dev/block/mmcblk0p2"?
please advice.
I tried to adb shell the nook, but not devices found? please help.
Finally, with the help from the good people of this forum, I was able to restore back to B&N, and reflash CM9 from there.
Thank to you all.

Yesterday my nook color was working great. Today I turned the screen on and it hung. Now I'm having the above problem with it hanging at clockwork recovery.
I've got CM7.1 stable on there running from emmc.

can't get adb to recognize the device since it is in cwr... how did you do it?

chilimac02 said:
can't get adb to recognize the device since it is in cwr... how did you do it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Install the google drivers for adb... if you are in CWR adb is enabled... just have to get the drivers loaded on your computer.

try this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=958748

dumper1234 said:
I searched everywhere, but can't find the same problem as mine. I am stuck in the CW recovery screen, after rebooting times after times.
I have been updating the CM9 nightly for a while, didn't have any problem. But when I tried to flash 02-17 nightly, I messed up and in the middle of the install (flash), I hold the power forcing to reboot. Now, it keeps going loop back to the CW recovery screen every time I tried to reboot.
--
I tried to reinstall the whole thing with the boot-able sdcard, but didn't work. please help! someone?
I tried to wipe, reformatted the system, data, cash, boot. Still stack at the cw recovery screen. Help...
I love my nook and have a road trip coming up. It will be nice to watch a kid movie to keep the kids entertained.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It may be that your "boot to recovery" flag is set, and if so, it will always boot to that until it is cleared. When the cyanogenmod logo comes up hold the n button until the boot menu comes up. Then choose boot to emmc. If it works, go to ROM Manager and flash a new CWM Recovery to emmc.

Welcome to the nightmare I lived last week. Don't worry I woke up, was able to fully recover and forget the dream ever occurred.
I to tried to reformat to 1gb/5gb and ended up in the same boot loop.. If you are in the same spot I was, your boot partition got wiped out. And you may notice EMMC is gone.
After much searching I came across a file... Looking....Looking...Looking...
..........................Ah yes here it is. Here is what worked for me.
1. Boot to recovery (Should be easy at this point)
2. Format System, Data, and Cache.
3. Install the attached Zip file. (RecoveryFix.zip), this should recreate the Boot partition and fix the EMMC.
4. Reboot to recovery
5. Install favorite Rom or restore from backup.
6. Reboot to test.
Again this is what finally worked for me, and I went through a lot of trial and error to get there. I am guessing at your situation being exactly the same as mine.
PS. Ignore my since of humor if you need to.

I survived the Encryption Unsuccessful error unscathed?!

I've been a stalker on here for a long time, as I've been interested in custom ROMs but I never pulled the trigger, until last night. My Vibrant has served me well for a many years, I bought it shortly after they came out. All I'd ever done to it was network unlock it so I could keep using it after I moved to the UK.
I've been toying with getting a new phone for a few months now so I decided why not try and flash a custom ROM and get ICS on my Vibrant, if I got the EU error and bricked it, oh well, I'd get a new phone. So I after much reading and research, studying the tutorials on here I went for it. I am vary tech and computer savvy. I build my own computers from scratch, I've flashed my routers and set up networks so I was pretty confident I could do this with the help of the forums here.
I've read every thread I can find on the EU on here and I know that the community needs as much info as possible to try and solve this bug, so I will try and be as specific as possible and list everything I did. But bear in mind, I'm new to this and this was my first time doing much of this so some things may be muddled as I was up til quite late messing with all this.
To start my phone was running 2.2 which was updated using Kies Mini. The only thing I'd ever done to it was network unlock, and for that all I did was find the file on the phone with the code and then enter it to unlock.
I decided to follow Woodrube's guide (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1464423)
I followed the guide to the "T".
1. Used Odin to flash back to stock 2.1, worked fine, phone booted back up and everything worked. Phone Data showed I was on 2.1.
2. I put Clockwork Recovery downloaded from Woodrube's sig block on my internal sdcard labeled as Update.zip
3. Created a folder called ICS on my internal sdcard. Found and downloaded CM7 from the forums here and dropped it into the ICS folder. Found and downloaded the ICS Passion ROM from the forums and dropped it into the ICS folder
4. Booted to recovery mode and did Reinstall Packages. It ran but brought me back to the blue recovery screen. so per Woodrube's guide I did it again and the second time it brought me to the green CWR recovery screen
5. I did wipe data/ factory reset
6. I did wipe cache
7. I went to advanced and did wipe dalvik cache
8. I went to mounts and storage and did format system
9. I went to install from sdcard and found the ICS folder I made and ran the CM7 fille I dropped there. It worked the first time and booted right up, I let it sit for about 5 mins waiting for the request to install my google password as Woodrube mentions, but it never appeared, so I moved on after 5-6 min of waiting.
10. I then booted back into recovery mode using the extended power button menu
11. I went to install from sdcard again and this time ran the ICS Passion file. It ran some text lines showed on the screen as id did somethings and then I sw a Random Offset error and a small hex string but then it said successfully installed but didn't leave the recovery screen. So i scrolled up to reboot system.
12. The phone rebooted, showed me the Passion splash screens and a progress bar which filled and completed, then showed a few other splash screens and then it booted up showing my signal strength bar and notifications bar. I thought YES! I did it and it worked. then the screen flashed, it showed a single multi-colored line horizontally across the middle of the screen and then flashed again and I was looking at the Encryption Unsuccessful screen.
13. I DID NOT PUSH THE RESET BUTTON, I set the phone aside and followed Woodrube's link to the Captivate Forums and read up on the error, read all of it, then searched the forums for more threads on the error and read all of those, then I Googled the error and read everything else I could find.
14. First i tried just shutting the phone down with the power button and then restarting it. I did this about 5-6 times. Every time it rebooted it showed me the Passion splash screens then boots up shows my notification bar and signal strength meter and the EU screen. That didn't work. I next tried rebooting 5 times without my external sd card installed. Same results
15. Next I decided to see if I had lost access to my internal sdcard as I had read about. I wasn't sure if I had because I had never pushed the EU screen reset button. So I booted into recovery mode, went to install from sdcard and my sdcard list popped up. I still had access to my internal sdcard.
At this point I was torn... do I stop playing with fire and just got back to stock, update with Kies Mini and go back to using the phone as I had always been and forget all this or do I try and figure this out? Well my stubborn side hating to be stumped had encountered a problem and so wanted to move forward... on i went.
16. I decided, ok, I can still see my internal sdcard so why not try reflashing the ISC Passion and see if maybe it will take this time with no EU. I ran it and exactly the same thing happened as the first time.. right down to the flash with the horizontal line and all. (I did not wipe data, cache or anything, just reflashed. Not sure if I should have or not)
17. Back to recovery mode and check... yes still see my internal sdcard. hmmm
18. Decide ok, how about it I do Woodrube's guide all over again from the start? Maybe that will work. I followed the guide again using all the same files and wound up right back at the EU screen again.
19. Hmmm, how about a different ICS ROM? Went and found ICZen and downloaded it. Hmm, how do I get this unto my internal sdcard if the phone won't boot all the way? Booted it back to the EU screen and just plugged the phone into the usb on my computer, windows recognized it, made the device plugged in noise, and both my internal and external sdcards on the phone showed up as drives. Navigated to the ICS folder in the internal sdcard and dropped the ICZen file into it.
20. Rebooted the phone into recovery mode using the power button menu
21. Used install from sdcard and flashed the ICZen. (Again, I didn't wipe anything before hand. Again not sure if I was supposed to)
22. The ROM installed and got stuck in a boot loop. I pulled the battery and rebooted to recovery and reflashed the ICZen again with no wipes. This time it worked and the phone rebooted and I got the ICZen splash screens, then the notification bar and signal strength meter showed up.. and AGAIN the weird flash with the horizontal bar and then the EU screen. SIGH
23. Booted back to recovery mode and checked if I still had access to internal sdcard. yes it was still there.
24. Shut down and booted to download mode and ran Odin and flashed back to stock 2.1
This is where I am now, It was too late to try anything else and my wife was glaring at me to go to bed so shut off the phone and went to bed.
I tried to put everything I did down with as much detail as I could. I'm sure some of you pros out there might be wincing at stuff I did, but again this is all new stuff for me and I'm slowly learning.
If you have any questions or need clarification just ask and I will try and help/explain better.
Hopefully this might help in the quest to solve this bug or it may just be a waste of time to read, dunno.

I got to:
"To start my phone was running 2.2 which was updated using Kies Mini."
and stopped there
Come back to Froyo - always welcome here

Moped_Ryder said:
I got to:
"To start my phone was running 2.2 which was updated using Kies Mini."
and stopped there
Come back to Froyo - always welcome here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, yea I know, but up until this adventure last night, I just used the phone with the Samsung updates as it was, didn't really have a need to do otherwise.

I think that you should flash one of Moped's ROMs and make sure that it will boot up and run ok and that you did, in fact get out of the EU bug safely.
Couple of things:
I did get your PM and I thank you for the info. This post is far more detailed, which is a ton better.
You say that you were unlocked. There was a theory not too long ago about a corrupted EFS file, but AdamOutler uploaded his and someone else replaced theirs with it and it didn't work. But I am thinking that there might be a link here bc I have seen several posts over the last few months that ICS ROMs have been out where someone's data has been borked or their IMIE was gone. Wonder if there is a correlation to that? I'll have to ask some people onver in the Captivate thread and if anyone in the Vibrant thread can chime in too(?).
If you want to flash another ROM, just follw my ICS guide but where it says to install CM7, just install your shiny, new 2.2 instead and there you are.
Great Job dodging that bullet and hope that you no longer lurk, but be a part of the community at large. If your intelligence is reflected in your post, you are welcome here anytime.

Thanks Woodrube,
I was thinking the same thing about loading a 2.2 ROM and be sure I'm all good.
I know the 2.1 I loaded last thing last night seemed to work fine. But I will try a 2.2 once I get home and will update on here after I do.
Funny thing about all this is that my wife now won't let me near her Captivate ROFL.

Can you blame her ?
For the sake of the thread i can chime in on the unlock part. I'm still untouched by the EU bug "touching wood(rube)" . I'm using the i896 version of the Captivate from Rogers and there was never codes inside of it so most app were unsuccesfull at pulling them. I had to use the free SGS Unlock website where you upload your nv_data.bin and it returns you a unlocked version. I also never encountered any efs/imei issue.

hi.
I saw you have not wiped when installing the ROMs. I think maybe you should try and do the wipe before installing the ICS ROM.
Wipe system, data, cache.
Good luck

romitkin said:
hi.
I saw you have not wiped when installing the ROMs. I think maybe you should try and do the wipe before installing the ICS ROM.
Wipe system, data, cache.
Good luck
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
BINGO!
So I followed Woodrube's guide again.. started from scratch... only change I made was I wiped data factory reset, wiped cache, wiped Dalvik cache, and under mounts and storage I format system BEFORE flashing the ICS Passion.
Logged into Google Account and set up phone and now I'm rockin' ICS
Not sure how or why this worked but it did.
Thoughts?

Stuck on Cyanogen loading screen.

Hi everyone,
Apologies for asking what is probably a utterly noob question, but I'm hoping someone can help.
I have a 2012 Nexus 7, that was fine until the updates through to Lollipop. At 5.1 it became a rechargeable paperweight! I guess we all know about that!
I have looked up loads of online videos etc. and decided to stick Cyanogen 10.2.1 on it as that seemed to be a good choice.
I installed Rom manager, got the Clockwork recovery bit installed at 6. something, and placed the CM 10.2.1 and G apps zips into the tablet, and then navigated through to the clockwork recovery bootloader, through to install from SD card.... selected the CM zip and let it get going.
An hour later and it's still flashing a Cyanogen loading screen at me and nothing more.
What the hell do I do now? Other than throw the damn thing in the bin(Which I'm resisting atm!).

alex.mc said:
Hi everyone,
Apologies for asking what is probably a utterly noob question, but I'm hoping someone can help.
I have a 2012 Nexus 7, that was fine until the updates through to Lollipop. At 5.1 it became a rechargeable paperweight! I guess we all know about that!
I have looked up loads of online videos etc. and decided to stick Cyanogen 10.2.1 on it as that seemed to be a good choice.
I installed Rom manager, got the Clockwork recovery bit installed at 6. something, and placed the CM 10.2.1 and G apps zips into the tablet, and then navigated through to the clockwork recovery bootloader, through to install from SD card.... selected the CM zip and let it get going.
An hour later and it's still flashing a Cyanogen loading screen at me and nothing more.
What the hell do I do now? Other than throw the damn thing in the bin(Which I'm resisting atm!).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Perform a dalvik cache wipe.
Sent from my YUREKA using Tapatalk

alex.mc said:
Hi everyone,
Apologies for asking what is probably a utterly noob question, but I'm hoping someone can help.
I have a 2012 Nexus 7, that was fine until the updates through to Lollipop. At 5.1 it became a rechargeable paperweight! I guess we all know about that!
I have looked up loads of online videos etc. and decided to stick Cyanogen 10.2.1 on it as that seemed to be a good choice.
I installed Rom manager, got the Clockwork recovery bit installed at 6. something, and placed the CM 10.2.1 and G apps zips into the tablet, and then navigated through to the clockwork recovery bootloader, through to install from SD card.... selected the CM zip and let it get going.
An hour later and it's still flashing a Cyanogen loading screen at me and nothing more.
What the hell do I do now? Other than throw the damn thing in the bin(Which I'm resisting atm!).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you wipe cache amd dalvik?
And try twrp recovery! Much better.
Also do factory reset in clockwork or twrp recovery.
Sent from my HUAWEI P7-L10 using XDA Free mobile app

Some info I should have mentioned, I rooted first successfully. I did a factory reset and wiped the caches.
Then I installed the Rom manager. I had to do some faffing around to get the current clockwork recovery installed.
Then I went into the recovery boot bit, wiped the Dalvik cache as I'd seen it mentioned.
Then I went for the sd card install, and it's still currently on the loading screen!

Ok guys....... it seems to have worked!
I went back in and cleared Dalvik, cleared the Cache, factory reset.
I couldn't then find the CM zip in install from sd card? But just hit reboot as I couldn't think what to do?
Same Cyanogen loading screen... yet this time it's loaded! And is working!
Thanks for the suggestions eveyone..... I'm not sure what I did but it seems to work now!
Thanks again.

try to use an old recovery and a old bootloader?

Just bumping up my thread the once,to say thanks for all the help.
It's all working well now, and CM10.2 is a revelation in comparison to the laggy, virtually unuseable lump of metal and plastic that my tablet was beforehand!
I am still slightly gobsmacked that Google sold me a very decent device, and then progressively crippled it to the point it wasn't useable! But hey ho, I got it sorted in the end.
I am a technically okay guy in most things, but was struggling with this a little, so I'd recommend anyone attempting this to have a good read around and then go for it. Like me, if you run into problems, there's always good advice available if you just ask.
Thanks again all....