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I was messing trying to figure out which is the correct method to close apps, back and home do the same thing, holding HOME (i just found out) brings up a list of recently used apps, but i can't figure a way to properly close them. I have Advanced Task Manager to close them now and again but I don't want to keep it running all the time.
Is there any proper way if the app doesn't provide an exit function?
Because an app is on that list does not mean it is not closed. That list is just the history of the last 6 apps you used.
A lot of people say that you do not need to worry about whether or not an app is fully closed because the software manages that to ensure that it has enough free memory. I don't know enough to know whether that is correct or not.
peterc10 said:
Because an app is on that list does not mean it is not closed. That list is just the history of the last 6 apps you used.
A lot of people say that you do not need to worry about whether or not an app is fully closed because the software manages that to ensure that it has enough free memory. I don't know enough to know whether that is correct or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, sorry, the apps I'm referring to are shown by the Advanced Task Manager, I merely found the Recent list when trying to find a way to exit apps.
I sometimes have 15-20 apps in there filling up my RAM even on startup things like Shop Savy will be there twice and Photoshop.com.
They, amongst others don't seem to provide options to prevent them starting at boot so I simply uninstalled them, but all the running apps do severely affect the performance when it's filling up.
I have been experiencing the same problem.
Advanced Task Manager lists a whole load of apps that start on bootup and each one of those doesn't have an option to disable this.
After a while (about 3 hrs or so) of using my Hero I am down to about 40mb of RAM which if I don't use Advanced Task Manager to kill unused apps my Hero begins to lag big time.
On the Android it is better to leave them resident in memory than stop them, unless they are 'background' processes and there is something wrong with them (a bug) making them slow down your phone.
Don't judge your Android on amount of free memory left; if anything, the the less memory left over the better as it means the memory is being used effectively to make it nice and speedy.
Processes aren't allowed to consume CPU cycles/consume battery/slow your phone down when they are not focused; the exception is background processes which need to keep going, like the music player etc. What's more, if an app is not focused then its state is preserved allowing your phone to free up its memory when needed; its memory effectively becomes 'cache' allowing it to restart quicker if it happens to have stayed in memory.
So don't worry about wiping an app from memory; for many apps there is simply no distinction between closing it and switching away from it; as soon as you switch away from it it's as good as closed; it's not slowing your phone down or taking up any memory that couldn't be freed instantly if needed, but if it is lucky enough to stay in memory it will re-open quicker.
On my experience, if you press the back button to exit an app, then the app is closed properly, running the code in the app that will release the memory and objects. This is the best way.
The only app it will not work on is the browser as the back button will send you back through the history.
Try it...
MercuryStar said:
On the Android it is better to leave them resident in memory than stop them, unless they are 'background' processes and there is something wrong with them (a bug) making them slow down your phone.
Don't judge your Android on amount of free memory left; if anything, the the less memory left over the better as it means the memory is being used effectively to make it nice and speedy.
Processes aren't allowed to consume CPU cycles/consume battery/slow your phone down when they are not focused; the exception is background processes which need to keep going, like the music player etc. What's more, if an app is not focused then its state is preserved allowing your phone to free up its memory when needed; its memory effectively becomes 'cache' allowing it to restart quicker if it happens to have stayed in memory.
So don't worry about wiping an app from memory; for many apps there is simply no distinction between closing it and switching away from it; as soon as you switch away from it it's as good as closed; it's not slowing your phone down or taking up any memory that couldn't be freed instantly if needed, but if it is lucky enough to stay in memory it will re-open quicker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand how and why this should be true, but for me it doesn't seem to be, if my memory falls to less than 40 the phone becomes increadibly unresponsive, I get crashes and have to wait forever for it to do things like open the phone. Immediately after killing all with advanced task manager it goes back to normal.
barryallott said:
On my experience, if you press the back button to exit an app, then the app is closed properly, running the code in the app that will release the memory and objects. This is the best way.
The only app it will not work on is the browser as the back button will send you back through the history.
Try it...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have tried both methods, more often than not though, back doesn't seem to do much either, I have experimented with free RAM and using back or Home, it seems the Home certainly isn't the correct way to do it, but back doesn't work very often either, maybe people aren't coding their apps properly to respond to the back button as an exit method?
this is the never ending discussion whether task manager make sense for android or not.
i'm one of those who say: definetly YES! USE TASKMANGER.
I understand that Android works in a way that taskmanager shouldnt be needed because it handles the tasks on its own, but sadly the concept just doesn't seem to work.
When my ram fills up i can cleary see that the device is getting slower, even just opening apps takes more than 5 seconds. After closing some apps the hero is fast again.
now i don't care whether ANDROID is the reason or some POORLY programmed background apps, because the outcome for me as a user is the same. I#m using advanced task manager and im very happy with it, whenever Android starts to slow down i close the open and unneeded apps, and everything is fast again...don't know how people can claim that Android does handle task management perfectly on its own.
Shahpur.Azizpour said:
this is the never ending discussion whether task manager make sense for android or not.
i'm one of those who say: definetly YES! USE TASKMANGER.
I understand that Android works in a way that taskmanager shouldnt be needed because it handles the tasks on its own, but sadly the concept just doesn't seem to work.
When my ram fills up i can cleary see that the device is getting slower, even just opening apps takes more than 5 seconds. After closing some apps the hero is fast again.
now i don't care whether ANDROID is the reason or some POORLY programmed background apps, because the outcome for me as a user is the same. I#m using advanced task manager and im very happy with it, whenever Android starts to slow down i close the open and unneeded apps, and everything is fast again...don't know how people can claim that Android does handle task management perfectly on its own.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The point is, Task manager of any kind is another 3rd party app taking up more memory, and quite frankly on such a high end phone i shouldn't have to worry about this problem. I noticed another thread about changing the values at which the internal task manager kills apps etc, if it becomes more of a problem i'll look into this method of fixing it.
alias_neo said:
The point is, Task manager of any kind is another 3rd party app taking up more memory, and quite frankly on such a high end phone i shouldn't have to worry about this problem. I noticed another thread about changing the values at which the internal task manager kills apps etc, if it becomes more of a problem i'll look into this method of fixing it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, in theory we shouldn't worry about tasks in the background, but in reality as you said, the device WILL slow down. so there is no other way around than closing apps manually and defining apps to be kept alive by the 3rd party task manager.
changing values for the internal task manager sounds like something which would only work on a rooted device, but im not sure...
Hello guys;
just received my phone yesterday and i have a question regarding open programs
does the back button until home screen close the program or it still run in memory?
some people advise the use of task killers to kill unwanted tasks to save battery
while others say that Linux is handling this automatically and using task killers is no use
some people claims that after they stopped using task killers their battery life was better
i am new the Android as i am an ex WinMo user so please enlighten me
Thanks for huge efforts guys
Yes, they are. Android does a poor job of managing tasks, even to the point it auto starts like everything in your phone and very few of them turn themselves off.
You can manually manage them in applications, running processes, but task killers are so much easier.
I have owned 3, and the one that is easiest to use, that I have never found a bug with is Advanced Task killer (Little green droid icon). The purchased version is expensive, but worth it as it gives you one click widget to kill tasks.
Advanced Taskiller is known for crashing the home screen and stopping vital system services requiring a reboot. I own the full, and I have no use for it.
Okay, let's see how many questions I can answer here....
First of all, using the back button does not close the program. Neither does the home button. Android does handle this natively, but it does so automatically. It doesn't matter how you exit a program, it stays running until it needs to close. Whenever too many apps are running, slowing the system down, it will close the older ones as needed. All automatically. Nice, huh?
Task killers let you do this more aggressively, or manually. You may want to do this if you want your system to be "extra" fast, or to save battery. Most of them have extra features, too, like switching to running apps, or uninstalling them, etc. Beyond that, you don't need it. Some people say that task killers actually drain battery, but in my experience, they help slightly. And they do improve performance slightly too--as long as you are smart about not killing the wrong apps. (HINT--if it's a widget or a background service, never kill it)
So really, it's up to you. Get a free one, or a trial, and try it out, see if it makes things better or worse. Just take into account the learning curve before you give up on it--you have to exclude widgets, background processes, and maybe a couple other apps, too... takes a bit of trial and error to figure out which apps get bugs when you kill them.
It's not necessary but highly recommended. I use Taskiller the paid version. I mainly use it to kill apps that start to have problems and to kill a lot of the apps that boot with the phone.
on G1: i use it every time i reboot, because on boot/startup, some apps open automatically that are not needed (e.g. maps, Documents To Go, alarm, etc.)
clears up a lot of memory
on Nexus One: not sure yet whether that's really necessary considering more RAM available
I use Advanced Task Manager purely because I bought it on my G1 and so thought I might as well. It has a kill-all widget (you can set exclusions of course) but I don't use that. I normally only use it to kill apps that I want to restart or just to monitor what apps are doing what.
I have tried running the phone without using it at all and using its automation feature to kill everything except widgets and background processes every 30 mins. I honestly didn't notice any battery life difference or performance except that abviously apps were slower to open if they'd been killed rather than when they were in the background.
In my opinion and based on anecdotal experiments, task killers are not necessary on the N1 and certainly nothing like as vital as they were on G1
system6 said:
Yes, they are. Android does a poor job of managing tasks, even to the point it auto starts like everything in your phone and very few of them turn themselves off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bull****. Prove your statement. This isn't Windows we're talking about. Android manages tasks and memory very well, if only people let it... but for some reason people can't understand that Android WILL automatically free memory AS NEEDED. Instead they open a task killer and **GASP** see open programs!! Autostarting certain apps is actually a good thing, since often those are the apps that people tend to use often, so they load very quickly. There is always some free memory with Android, and it never lets it get to a point where that drops to 0.
uansari1 said:
Bull****. Prove your statement. This isn't Windows we're talking about. Android manages tasks and memory very well, if only people let it... but for some reason people can't understand that Android WILL automatically free memory AS NEEDED. Instead they open a task killer and **GASP** see open programs!! Autostarting certain apps is actually a good thing, since often those are the apps that people tend to use often, so they load very quickly. There is always some free memory with Android, and it never lets it get to a point where that drops to 0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1. I dont use any task killers and have had no problems with speed or battery life.
uansari1 said:
Bull****. Prove your statement. This isn't Windows we're talking about. Android manages tasks and memory very well, if only people let it... but for some reason people can't understand that Android WILL automatically free memory AS NEEDED. Instead they open a task killer and **GASP** see open programs!! Autostarting certain apps is actually a good thing, since often those are the apps that people tend to use often, so they load very quickly. There is always some free memory with Android, and it never lets it get to a point where that drops to 0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This.
I thought a task killer was necessary and went out and spent the dollar something on Advanced Task Killer. It made me feel "good" to know what I control what apps are open. But you know what? Ever since a factory reset, I have not put the Task Killer back on my phone and it's been about a week and a half if not more of letting android control my memory... And like uansari said... Android does a very good job of it.
I have not had to close any apps because of short memory. Android does a great job. Save your money.
Android (and Windows for that matter) has great memory management, but it's mostly a problem of rogue apps that don't sleep properly. I have Advanced Task Manager, and I've noticed with the Nexus One I see more "applications" running (like Launcher) that didn't show up on my G1 (running Enom's 1.6 before I got my N1). I found that I had to block a bunch of apps to keep them from being closed, and I got a couple of weird bugs that seemed to stem from closing apps. One of them was this problem with the audio not be routed properly to my BT or wired headset when connected. I use the task manager much more sparingly now, and only kill apps when they act up.
I really wish we had "Cards" like the Pre, so we could always know exactly what was open. Plus, the ability to "alt-tab" (swipe back and forth) is a million times better than this "hold home button" crap. Sigh. Need better alt tabbing.
while i do not disagree that Android does a ok (yes, ok! just that...) job to manage tasks & processes, I disagree that it opens or keeps open apps that are necessary or frequently used. That's not Android that does it, it's the apps that tell it to do it.
for instance (as i mentioned a few posts up), everytime i boot, it opens "Documents To Go"... an app i most infrequently use, almost never, but like to have in case i have to review a doc or excel sheet on the go.
It doesn't have to open on startup, it is not frequently used, but it still opens on start up.
so yes, i do use task killer, on startup. but i use it sparingly thereafter
shmigao said:
while i do not disagree that Android does a ok (yes, ok! just that...) job to manage tasks & processes, I disagree that it opens or keeps open apps that are necessary or frequently used. That's not Android that does it, it's the apps that tell it to do it.
for instance (as i mentioned a few posts up), everytime i boot, it opens "Documents To Go"... an app i most infrequently use, almost never, but like to have in case i have to review a doc or excel sheet on the go.
It doesn't have to open on startup, it is not frequently used, but it still opens on start up.
so yes, i do use task killer, on startup. but i use it sparingly thereafter
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's fine... so Document to Go opens at boot, along with other apps. My point is that as you start opening other apps, and Documents to Go stays latent, it will get closed automatically as other apps demand memory. I'm not directing this specifically at you, shmigao... just responding to a concern a lot of people seem to have. Apps automatically opening at startup is common and don't cause a performance decrease.
I have yet to experience any slowdowns on my N1, and I never use the task killer that's built into Astro.
i use "automatic task killer" free from the market and my phone runs fine. I dont even have to think about it, because it clears memory when phone goes to sleep. I think it was more needed on htc magic than nexus.
uansari1 said:
Bull****. Prove your statement. This isn't Windows we're talking about. Android manages tasks and memory very well, if only people let it... but for some reason people can't understand that Android WILL automatically free memory AS NEEDED. Instead they open a task killer and **GASP** see open programs!! Autostarting certain apps is actually a good thing, since often those are the apps that people tend to use often, so they load very quickly. There is always some free memory with Android, and it never lets it get to a point where that drops to 0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.
I stopped using task killers on my N1 because it cause more problems and hosed my battery faster. I haven't used it in almost two weeks, and the phone is smooth and the battery lasts a lot longer.
No need for task killers on the N1, IMO.
uansari1 said:
Bull****. Prove your statement. This isn't Windows we're talking about. Android manages tasks and memory very well, if only people let it... but for some reason people can't understand that Android WILL automatically free memory AS NEEDED. Instead they open a task killer and **GASP** see open programs!! Autostarting certain apps is actually a good thing, since often those are the apps that people tend to use often, so they load very quickly. There is always some free memory with Android, and it never lets it get to a point where that drops to 0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HA! Tell me how you really feel....LOL. I have tested my wifes G1 and my old MyTouch and found it gave me about 30% more battery time.
Yes it will auto close programs when it needs the resources, just like a Palm pre, but running processes are just that.....RUNNING.
uansari1 said:
Bull****. Prove your statement. This isn't Windows we're talking about. Android manages tasks and memory very well, if only people let it... but for some reason people can't understand that Android WILL automatically free memory AS NEEDED. Instead they open a task killer and **GASP** see open programs!! Autostarting certain apps is actually a good thing, since often those are the apps that people tend to use often, so they load very quickly. There is always some free memory with Android, and it never lets it get to a point where that drops to 0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am perfectly happy with android managing my open applications and I have no concerns about RAM. My primary problem is that I am given *no* way to actually close an application if I really want to. An open application could still be polling, syncing, or updating and if I don't want that anymore how can I close it without the application developer explicitly coding an option for me to do so?
(an) Automatic task killer gives me the peace of mind that I can close applications that I use only once in a while and start with a clean slate every time I unlock the device.
I am not one of those users who places every single program there and requires a minimum amount of free ram, but I do have it cleaning up programs that have no business staying resident.
Wouldnt it by wise to use the "ignore" list many of these apps have.
That way you can have your frequenly used apps always able to quick load and the ones that you never use killed off.
I understand that Android has good memory management but I dont see the point of having some apps sitting there when I have no intention of opening them up on a regular basis.
Wow! Such heated debate over something so simple!
This isn't Android 1.0 or 1.5 or even 1.6(pretty darn good at auto closing)... this is Android 2.1 on 1ghz w/512mb RAM! The auto scaling of the CPU and the auto task closing is very, very, very good! There is no need for a task manager unless you want to use it to close something very specific because you want it closed NOW!
But there is no NEED for it, especially on the Nexus One. All it will do, if used regularly, is decrease battery life (yes, decrease, because it takes a lot more CPU power to open up an app than it takes to hold that program in the RAM's cache). As well, it will slow down your Android experience... Hero users found this one out, at least smart ones did, that the best way to keep it zipping along was to not use a task killer, except for media rich apps like youtube, music player, video player.
On a G1 running a Hero ROM, slightly different story in terms of speed, it was beneficial for several reasons; 1. Android 1.5 doesn't have nearly as good auto task management as 2.1. 2. A G1 used almost all of it's RAM to boot up the Hero ROM, and thus the auto settings were no where nearly as agressive as they would need to be.
But we are not talking about a G1 running a Hero ROM... we are talking about a Nexus One running stock Android 2.1...
If the OP, or anyone, wants a task killer, get Astro file manager, and use that. Kill the select few apps that you really want to when you get done, but don't bother getting an auto killer that messes with the already amazing job Android 2.1 and the Nexus One do!
it can be useful... i use it to close certain app that autostart or keep running in the background and use the GPS franticly trying to get a location
Hi,
I have noticed that my Nexus' performance starts to drop after some hours on: going from one home screen to the other becomes quite choppy, and so do the animations of opening an application.
Have you guys noticed that too, or is it just me?
It was like this for me until I bought Advanced Task Manager. I have it auto end applications that I don't need to run all the time. It runs much better now.
The issue is RAM. The kernel that shipped with the Nexus One doesn't support the full 512MB of RAM. However, CyanogenMod 5.0-beta4 does and the difference in speed is amazing. With 26 apps running I have 167MB free atm.
But like stickerbob said, you should have Advanced Task Manager at the least.
Deathwish238 said:
The issue is RAM. The kernel that shipped with the Nexus One doesn't support the full 512MB of RAM. However, CyanogenMod 5.0-beta4 does and the difference in speed is amazing. With 26 apps running I have 167MB free atm.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't get it. Isn't Android supposed to kill unused apps when it's running out of RAM?
frandavid100 said:
I don't get it. Isn't Android supposed to kill unused apps when it's running out of RAM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep but some people just don't get that, ah well...
efeltee said:
Yep but some people just don't get that, ah well...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, that doesn't really explain the performance drops. Does the phone run out of RAM, or not? It seems to be snappy again after a reboot, so there must be something.
frandavid100 said:
I don't get it. Isn't Android supposed to kill unused apps when it's running out of RAM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is what I have read, but it did not work for me. I downloaded the free version of advanced task man to troubleshoot the problem and found that most of my apps were still running in the background even when my ram was down to 10-20mb. That is about when the phone would start acting up on me. When I ended the tasks the phone would act normal again. So I just broke down and bought the app for $.99. If you do this make sure you exclude some system apps, if you don't your phone could freeze while it is trying to restart them.
10-20mb free is normal operation. This is how the OS is designed to operate, linux and even windows7 now also operate in this fashion (show very little 'free' memory). there is no performance problem with low free memory, purely a misconception on modern memory managment. Whats going on is that you have a buggy application, which is why 'killing' apps looks to be resolving your issue. You're only resolving the symptom, not the problem.
I never kill apps and have had weeks of uptime without any slow down. This gets rehashed over and over again by people claiming task killers help performance. The reality is they do nothing for performance, only nice to have around for that great once and a while an app runs away from you, or in troubleshooting if you have a poorly written app. It should not be anyones habit to do a kill all on a regular basis, if it were the OS would do this automatically.
btw, compcache has been known to cause this slowdown over time issue, it has since been removed from most of the popular custom baked rom's.
frandavid100 said:
I don't get it. Isn't Android supposed to kill unused apps when it's running out of RAM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it does...
bofslime said:
10-20mb free is normal operation. This is how the OS is designed to operate, linux and even windows7 now also operate in this fashion (show very little 'free' memory). there is no performance problem with low free memory, purely a misconception on modern memory managment. Whats going on is that you have a buggy application, which is why 'killing' apps looks to be resolving your issue. You're only resolving the symptom, not the problem.
I never kill apps and have had weeks of uptime without any slow down. This gets rehashed over and over again by people claiming task killers help performance. The reality is they do nothing for performance, only nice to have around for that great once and a while an app runs away from you, or in troubleshooting if you have a poorly written app. It should not be anyones habit to do a kill all on a regular basis, if it were the OS would do this automatically.
btw, compcache has been known to cause this slowdown over time issue, it has since been removed from most of the popular custom baked rom's.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well then there must be many buggy applications. I had to rely on Advanced Task Manager to keep my G1 running acceptably fast. The N1 slows down without its full RAM available so I needed to use Advanced Task Manager then too.
If the RAM is not the issue, why does having the extra 200 MB available make the phone run much smoother with 20+ apps running?
frandavid100 said:
I don't get it. Isn't Android supposed to kill unused apps when it's running out of RAM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well technically no, it reallocates what is being used and frees up memory for programs currently running but non the less the OS manages itself
personally i close apps that i do not have going with the task manager. i seem to notice a performance difference if i do it manually, it takes 2-3 extra taps for peace of mind rather than relying on the OS to figure it out for me...
Deathwish238 said:
The issue is RAM. The kernel that shipped with the Nexus One doesn't support the full 512MB of RAM. However, CyanogenMod 5.0-beta4 does and the difference in speed is amazing. With 26 apps running I have 167MB free atm.
But like stickerbob said, you should have Advanced Task Manager at the least.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The speed benefits of CM's ROM isn't due to the HIGHMEM supporting kernel, but rather other tweeks he's done with his build. Extra ram is nice, but there is certainly no limitation with the 213 or so userspace memory that is available now. Android itself does not even use this memory, it has its own reserved memory space, userspace memory is only for applications to be loaded in. And there is speed for keeping as much of your applications loaded in memory as possible.
swetland said:
Roughly 220MB is available to userspace in the shipping build (ERD79).
Quite a lot of memory is dedicated to the radio firmware (41MB), dsp firmware (32MB), display surfaces (32MB), gpu (3MB), camera (8MB), a/v buffers (41MB), and dsp buffers. Much of this needs to be set aside for these specific tasks due to hardware requirements of very large physically contiguous buffers which can be difficult or impossible to obtain after boot once the physical memory space gets fragmented.
The big limitation though is that the Linux kernel needs to do a 1:1 physical:virtual map of general purpose memory used by the kernel and userspace (which excludes the special purpose stuff described above). This eats into the available kernel virtual address space, which is also needed for cross process shared memory used by the binder, etc. Run out of virtual memory and things get unhappy.
In 2.6.32, HIGHMEM support for ARM will allow us to avoid this requirement for a 1:1 mapping which will allow us to increase memory available to userspace without running the system out of virtual memory adddress space.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The speed difference I'm talking about is what I experienced when running CM beta3 and CM beta3 w/ highmem. The difference was huge. I assumed the change was mainly attributed to the double RAM available.
Even now with the full RAM available, things run faster when I end the other apps running. It's not necessary, but the difference is there.
It would be nice to be able to pinpoint which apps caused slow downs.
The best way I've seen this put I found in a thread where someone wanted to disable apps from auto-starting entirely. I saved it, because I though it was very elegant way to explain androids mem management.
equid0x said:
I just wanted to chime in here about the whole apps on startup thing....
Android has the concept of services which are programs that typically have a frontend piece, like a GUI for IM that you would normally use, that only runs when you are using it, and a background piece, the service, which is constantly running to keep you connected to your IM servers. This will account for some portion of the things you see running on startup, depending on how many apps you have installed, and whether or not they were written to run as a service.
There are also some, usually older, android programs that existed before "services" were really used.. that basically use triggers to keep reloading themselves. These programs are less efficient, and probably should be re-written to use the official service method of operation, caveat emptor.
Android also makes several modifications to the stock process handling that comes with any Linux kernel, which is already radically different from what most would be used to seeing on Windows as it is. Android attempts to keep commonly used applications running(loaded into memory), but in a sleeping state (using no cpu), so that they may be quickly resumed on request. Android also contains some agressive modifications to the behavior of the OOM(out of memory) task killer in Linux, that seem to cause it to keep applications running until nearly all memory is consumed, killing apps it deems unnecessary only when absolutely necessary. However, Android also supports a methodology of saving the running state of a program, so that if it is killed due to an OOM condition, it may be restarted with relevant data restored, to give the appearance of never having been killed at all.
This functionality is not all to alien to Linux as a platform in general, though Android has many modifications which tend to favor aggressive app management in memory, and less so filesystem cache. This was likely a design choice made to suit the low-speed/low memory platforms Android targets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good read.
So then given that...only services running should slow down the phone and not the background apps running.
However, this doesn't really answer the OP's question. If it's not a memory issue...what's causing his slowdowns?
Could be too many widgets on the home screen, I don't run that many but its possible that while in an app for a while, and switching back to home the OS may have to kill a whole bunch of apps to allow it to reload all the widgets on the home screen.
I tested this, and loaded the crap out of my home screens with widgets, and then launched a game. When I exited the game there was a good 500ms - 800ms delay in my homescreens from displaying anything other than the background. However, after it loaded, scrolling between screens looks smooth. The new kernel with highmem support can help this, but I would suspect some crazy widget filled homescreen with a 3rd party live wallpaper (star's configured with too many stars) and all of that combined could be an issue even still. Apple combats this by allowing only one app at a time, they know people will go overboard if allowed.
Well, that doesn't really explain the performance drops. Does the phone run out of RAM, or not? It seems to be snappy again after a reboot, so there must be something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's probably no easy answer to this question. There could be IO contention, a runaway process, high CPU usage, a memory leak, shoddy code in some app, etc etc... One would really have to take a look at the whole state of the system at the time the problem is happening to be able to ascertain what is causing the slowdown.
The phenomenon is in no way unique to Android. I'm sure nearly everyone is familiar with the common complaint "my computer is running slow". The reasons that can happen on a common PC are the very same reasons that can be happening here, and unfortunately there are many of those reasons. While in many cases, throwing memory at the issue may appear to solve the problem temporarily, it often is not a permanent fix.
The amount of userspace memory available really amounts to 1 thing and 1 thing only -> the total number of running processes that we can keep totally in memory at any given time. On stock android, slowdown due to an OOM condition should be minimal, since stock android doesn't swap. Discounting any other bottlenecks, there is a practical limit to the number of programs once would be able to run in the memory space that is available. Realistically speaking, android programs tend to be fairly small, so you'd really have to be running a lot of them to exhaust this space. It is far more likely one or 2 poorly written programs are hogging huge amounts of memory (and probably other resources), which is causing constant killing and restarting of other apps you are trying to run concurrently. You end up with contention on the slow flash, resulting in poor performance.
You can't even really compare the Nexus One to the G1 in this regard, because the G1 truly is terribly deprived of memory. Though, the argument in both cases could really be made that you are attempting to run the hardware beyond its design specifications...
Its been my experience that the culprit is usually one or 2 specific programs. Sometimes the best, although inconvenient, way to figure out which programs these are, is to keep watch of your usage habits, and if you suspect something is the problem, uninstall it, and see if the issue persists. Its time consuming but there really isn't any better way to figure it out without using all kinds of tools that android doesn't really provide convenient access to. There are a few apps on the market that help with this but I am not sure what they are called offhand.
Programs that were identified as sources of slowdown for me have been:
Weatherbug
The Weather Channel
Calorie Counter
Locale
SMS Popup
10000
USA Today
National Geographic Wallpapers
CNN News Widget
Streamfurious
Nav4All
Waze
Just about every app with Admob Ads
And this is really just what I can think off offhand... there are more...
equid0x said:
There's probably no easy answer to this question. There could be IO contention, a runaway process, high CPU usage, a memory leak, shoddy code in some app, etc etc... One would really have to take a look at the whole state of the system at the time the problem is happening to be able to ascertain what is causing the slowdown.
The phenomenon is in no way unique to Android. I'm sure nearly everyone is familiar with the common complaint "my computer is running slow". The reasons that can happen on a common PC are the very same reasons that can be happening here, and unfortunately there are many of those reasons. While in many cases, throwing memory at the issue may appear to solve the problem temporarily, it often is not a permanent fix.
The amount of userspace memory available really amounts to 1 thing and 1 thing only -> the total number of running processes that we can keep totally in memory at any given time. On stock android, slowdown due to an OOM condition should be minimal, since stock android doesn't swap. Discounting any other bottlenecks, there is a practical limit to the number of programs once would be able to run in the memory space that is available. Realistically speaking, android programs tend to be fairly small, so you'd really have to be running a lot of them to exhaust this space. It is far more likely one or 2 poorly written programs are hogging huge amounts of memory (and probably other resources), which is causing constant killing and restarting of other apps you are trying to run concurrently. You end up with contention on the slow flash, resulting in poor performance.
You can't even really compare the Nexus One to the G1 in this regard, because the G1 truly is terribly deprived of memory. Though, the argument in both cases could really be made that you are attempting to run the hardware beyond its design specifications...
Its been my experience that the culprit is usually one or 2 specific programs. Sometimes the best, although inconvenient, way to figure out which programs these are, is to keep watch of your usage habits, and if you suspect something is the problem, uninstall it, and see if the issue persists. Its time consuming but there really isn't any better way to figure it out without using all kinds of tools that android doesn't really provide convenient access to. There are a few apps on the market that help with this but I am not sure what they are called offhand.
Programs that were identified as sources of slowdown for me have been:
Weatherbug
The Weather Channel
Calorie Counter
Locale
SMS Popup
10000
USA Today
National Geographic Wallpapers
CNN News Widget
Streamfurious
Nav4All
Waze
Just about every app with Admob Ads
And this is really just what I can think off offhand... there are more...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm banking on it being an issue with an app that the OP has installed as well...not the phone or Android. I have only a handful of tried and true apps, and haven't experienced a slowdown even after 150 hours without a reboot.
OP... start uninstalling apps a couple at a time and wait several hours in between to narrow down the problem app.
I can't speak for the OP, but when I was having that problem I had 5 widgets running on my home screen. The Google Search, Sports Tap, Power Control, Calendar, and The Small Weather Channel. Does this seem like too much? I hope not.
stickerbob said:
I can't speak for the OP, but when I was having that problem I had 5 widgets running on my home screen. The Google Search, Sports Tap, Power Control, Calendar, and The Small Weather Channel. Does this seem like too much? I hope not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not just widgets that you should be thinking about... any app you've installed can throw something off.
stickerbob said:
I can't speak for the OP, but when I was having that problem I had 5 widgets running on my home screen. The Google Search, Sports Tap, Power Control, Calendar, and The Small Weather Channel. Does this seem like too much? I hope not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I removed the weather & news widget and the phone seems much faster now. I'll keep it like that for a day, see if it stays fast.
Hello, all. I am currently running the free version of Advanced Task Killer, which seems to work ok, but there has to be something better. What I've noticed is, that after a reboot, the app will tell me that I have about 240 MB of available memory when all apps are closed with the exception of the task killer itself.
However, by the end of the day, after I've opened and closed a few apps, sent some messages and emails, made some calls, etc, the task manager will show significantly less available memory available. It could drop to as low as 135 MB with all apps closed with the exception of the task killer.
This leads to me to believe one of two things:
a) The Task Killer is full of it and it does not have an accurate read of how much memory is actually available.
b) The Task Killer is only able to "kill" certain tasks while others remain running in the background and it does not show that the app(s) are actually running.
Honestly, I think it is option B, because I do notice that when the app tells me that I have less than normal available memory, the phone does tend to function slower and lag a bit. Nothing that cannot be fixed by a powering it off and on, but I am hoping that someone knows of a good app (even if it is a paid app) that will actually bring up ALL tasks running and kill them. I've also noticed that even with this task killer, Google Talk (which I have never used) always remains open in my phone and I have to manually go into into the settings and turn that off.
Any suggestions?
My suggestion is to not use one.
I do use Autokiller though which tweaks the thresholds for Android's internal "task killer".
It's best to let Android do it's thing.
Tikerz said:
My suggestion is to not use one.
I do use Autokiller though which tweaks the thresholds for Android's internal "task killer".
It's best to let Android do it's thing.
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Click to collapse
Really? Do you mind elaborating on why you feel that way a bit so I can understand? Because I do notice that when the I am running a bunch of things at once and I use this app to kill the tasks, it does improve the performance of the phone.
I can understand why some people say you don't need one but I do think it is necessary to have it installed for when you do. I'd rather kill apps than pop the case, battery cover and battery to fix a frozen phone.
I have some GPS apps I run occasionally that after exiting them they don't turn off the GPS or lock the GPS on and drain my battery. So for those apps where the developer didn't put a close buton on the menu it helps shut them down. I don't know why Google Market doesn't require apps to have a close option.
get OS MONITOR from the market
PAPutzback said:
I don't know why Google Market doesn't require apps to have a close option.
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Click to collapse
Because users shouldn't have to manage their own memory. Apple folks already love laughing at us for that very reason, and even though it pains me to say it they're absolutely correct.
I can certainly buy the argument that task killers are nice for those occasions when something does go haywire and it needs to be forcibly killed, and I can understand using one just because you're curious and want to see what's running and how much memory you have, etc, but beyond that I find that they're unnecessary. My EVO runs very smoothly without me manually intervening, even after many days of uptime with many apps running.
GHOST99K said:
get OS MONITOR from the market
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Click to collapse
Wow! That's detailed and a lot more than I bargained for....lol. Thanks! Good thing my phone is rooted and I was able to use it since I never did the recent update to the 1.47.xx OTA update and I'm waiting for a fully functional version to be released, but there is a lot of stuff on this that goes well beyond my basic knowledge. Apparently, my phone has 89 processes running with no apps running (according to Task Killer) and only one widget running and the CPU is fluctuating at 10-40% usage.
Interestingly enough, but apps report the same amount of available memory......EXACTLY the same. So it can be assumed that both apps provide an accurate figure of available memory.
I would advise against using a Task killer. Android has its own memory management, which works extremely well on the EVO, to be honest. The latest update (1.47) feels like its makes the EVO perform much better and allows it to be more efficient.
If anything, I would suggest you read this thread about an app called Autostarts, which isn't a task killer, rather a startup manager that can be tweaked to do many different things. By not allowing certain things to start up when your phone boots, you'll have more memory to begin with and Android will be more efficient in memory management. I would try Autostarts before using a task killer.
Hope that helps.
eagle63 said:
Because users shouldn't have to manage their own memory. Apple folks already love laughing at us for that very reason, and even though it pains me to say it they're absolutely correct.
I can certainly buy the argument that task killers are nice for those occasions when something does go haywire and it needs to be forcibly killed, and I can understand using one just because you're curious and want to see what's running and how much memory you have, etc, but beyond that I find that they're unnecessary. My EVO runs very smoothly without me manually intervening, even after many days of uptime with many apps running.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, but having to run a task killer is a small price to pay to not be part of the iPhone bandwagon crew, IMO.
Are you running a custom rom on your phone? I just have a rooted stock rom. Maybe that's why your phone can go days without the performance being affected? I still have all the bloatware on mine, and I've put off removing it because I am still a noob at this and I'm in the learning process. I wonder if the new update that was just released improves this aspect of the phone at all.....?
pseudoremora said:
I would advise against using a Task killer. Android has its own memory management, which works extremely well on the EVO, to be honest. The latest update (1.47) feels like its makes the EVO perform much better and allow it to be more efficient.
If anything, I would suggest you read this thread about an app called Autostarts, which isn't a task killer, rather a startup manager that can be tweaked to do many different things. By not allowing certain things to start up when your phone boots, you'll have more memory to begin with and Android will be more efficient in memory management. I would try Autostarts before using a task killer.
Hope that helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, I will definitely look into it. All advise is appreciated as I am very new to all of this. You answered my last question on my previous post with this, too.... I can't wait for a fully functional rooted OEM rom to be released with the goodies from the new update to try it out. I'm hesitant to update my phone now and lose superuser as I use the WiFi tether a lot.
So Samsung for whatever reason, decides it's a good idea to include an easy to access task manager with a giant "kill all tasks" button in TouchWiz. It seems like everyone I know, that has a Galaxy S II, has adopted a certain behavior due this. What they do is, every time they put their phone away, they will automatically go to this task manager and kill all tasks, before locking the phone. When I ask them why the hell they're doing that, the answer is usually something like "wasting battery blah blah blah" or "wasting CPU blah blah blah"... NO!
For starters:
http://geekfor.me/faq/you-shouldnt-be-using-a-task-killer-with-android/
http://lifehacker.com/5650894/andro...ed-what-they-do-and-why-you-shouldnt-use-them
http://www.infoworld.com/t/smartphones/myth-android-devices-need-task-killers-609
http://androinica.com/2010/05/googl...-imply-task-killermanager-apps-are-pointless/
People that are doing this, educate yourself. And Samsung, well done for encouraging this.
Just because a task is in memory, doesn't mean it's doing anything, and certainly doesn't mean it's using up battery. If it's staying in memory, it's because there's no need to release it just yet. If you start it up again, it will already be there, and load up faster. The alternative is, you keep killing it, and every time you run it again, it will have to reinitialize and reload everything. Which option do you think is actually going to cost more battery?
The whole thing with people saying "oh no it's using CPU, i must kill it"... what?! If it's using CPU, it's probably doing something. Why the hell are you killing a process while it's in the middle of doing something? Do you not care about data integrity at all? It could have been in the middle of syncing, or in the middle of a write operation who knows.
If you run other applications and your memory runs low, then Android will close it. And it will close it properly, as opposed to you force killing it, denying it of any chance to clean up.
Obviously there are rare exceptions with dodgy programs. But most of the time, the tasks being killed are system apps, or trustworthy apps, properly written by Google or Samsung.
If you're not a developer, you probably won't understand the whole Android application lifecycle.
http://developer.android.com/reference/android/app/Activity.html
By force closing an application, you're not allowing it to run its onStop() and onDestroy() functions. This is where apps do all the clean up, releasing resources, unregistering things, closing connections etc.
Do you do this on your PC. Open up Windows task manager, and just kill any task that's using CPU. Or hell, just kill all tasks every 2 minutes! Good luck with that.
This has probably been said hundreds of times, but a lot of people i know are getting GSII's and I see them doing this constantly. It's stupid. Do you really think they designed the operating system so that you have to kill everything each time you touch it?
TLDR: Stop "killing all tasks" (unless theres actually something wrong) and well done Samsung for encouraging this. Just stupid.
Damn your right, I never used a task killer on previous android phones, but for some reason I have got into the habit of doing it now. So I'm going to kill that habit. Well noticed
Well according to the user guide (the full one from Samsung's website)... though personally I don't bother killing anything
Use the task manager › ›
Your device is a multitasking device. It can run more than one application at the same time. However, multitasking may cause hang-ups, freezing, memory problems, or additional power consumption. To avoid these problems, end unnecessary programs using the task manager.
1 In Idle mode, open the application list and select Task manager → Active applications.
The list of all the applications currently running on your device appears.
2 To close an application, select Exit.To close all active applications, select Exit all.
i like the placebo effect and stop telling me what i have to do or not to do!
your writing style is to aggressive, stop being aggressive!
For me, it is worth to have the clear memory option because I already faced the glitch or bugs program which cause my phone to run constantly at 1.2ghz and this will cause my phone become extremely hot. I can't see what application is running but for some reason, the cpu gone crazy. It drain battery in no time. With the simple one click button, I can closed the programs without need to restart the phone. Yes, generally I will let the android system to handle the application by itself but I still think it was a good moved by samsung to have task manager if we use it in proper way...
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Well it's not all that bad, with 2 cores one core can easily come into a deadlock and the device will continue to function albeit much slower and consuming a lot of power, when this happens in the taskmanager the processes are listed red
Thanks ever so for much for this post I have just got my first Android phone and thought by doing this it would increase the battery life a tad but did kinda think it was a bit daft having a system that required manually killing tasks. Coming from a Windows 6.1 XDA Zest I am still getting my head round an OS that's doesn't require hours on Internet to work out how to do things.
Sad, but true, I was getting onto Android from Symbian, and first thing after I realised that I do not have option of killing all apps, I have installed the task killer and kept using it for like a week, then I've read one of the articles about it, that its wrong, and that Android is not working as Symbian nor Windows, so I realised that I dont need to do that... unninstalled it and not using it at all since
You don't need Task manager / killer if only all android applications are developed by good programmers that implement Android application lifecycle properly.
The problem is not all applications are developed this way. Some application may buggy / in beta stage that still consuming processing time even they are in background.
Task manager is still useful to close nasty program manually. But I do agree, auto-kill is useless and can cause battery drain and system instability.
Yep .. it's mostly services what eats battery. And there is poor control over that. It would be interesting to see what service was active at what time, or even how much battery did it use. All battery discussions are about guessing what is running in the background and how often and how much. We should not guess such things.
As far as I'm concerned an in built task manager is just as important as an in built modem right now. There are far too many unstable applications out there that hang up and Android can never fully deal with them(despite what research may or may not have been done in the past).
I have a few games installed on my S2(namely Pool Break Pro & TNA iMPACT!) that crash quite often and require the use of the task manager to manually end those programs(they are in the task manager highlighted in red when they have stalled).
However, what I will say is that the button to clear memory in the RAM manager really shouldn't be there at all. The task manager alone is more than enough to manually exit necessary apps that crash and stay open for no reason.
I like to have the ability to close programs easily at hand. It gives me better control over "rogue" apps. I only use it for a few programs though, like the Engadget app. It seems to be poorly coded, often using 40-50% CPU when running in the background.
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I like it because it lets me close frozen apps quicker..
the_Calen said:
i like the placebo effect and stop telling me what i have to do or not to do!
your writing style is to aggressive, stop being aggressive!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol yes. Not to be taken too seriously.
Force closing apps with the task manager when somethings wrong with the phone or closing broken apps makes sense. I'm just talking about people that instinctively press the close all apps button every time they use the phone for a second. It's just silly. Basically doing what those automatic task killing apps do.
I use to kill opera everytime i'm done with browsing because even in idle mode the phone gets very hot when opera runs in the backgtound. But after these explanstions i stop force killing every app
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If a program is badly written and won't stay idle, then kill it.
I am very selective about what I install, and never kill or need to kill anything.
You have 1 GB of ram on this phone. If you want best battery and speed, don't kill anything. loading a running app from ram uses less power than starting from scratch and booting it from nand, then starting it up.
So if apps are well written, don't kill them. If stuff stays around causing drain, kill it individually but find a better app
This thread is spot on... for the most part. Like Pulser said, there are apps when idling/cached, cause detrimental effects like the one I detailed here causing your phone to stay Awake constantly and draining battery:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1094666
ATK isn't the most elegant method, but it allows you to put everything else on ignore and have it actively kill the apps that love to stay cached and cause issues even after you've exited out of them.
Is there a way to "lock" some apps into a memory so they never quit by the android OS except if I would decide to?
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You have a valid point, but most of the time those apps don't do anything critical that it would hurt to interrupt. I usually prefer to exit them normally, but sometimes I just kill it, like when I forgot the Messages / Internet open. No need to paranoia though, leaving a few open won't kill your battery.
PINki92 said:
Is there a way to "lock" some apps into a memory so they never quit by the android OS except if I would decide to?
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Click to collapse
That's exactly what I needed. There are some apps, like SetCPU, TB, Root Explorer, which can be added to SuperUser authorization and it won't get killed by anything unless someone manually kills it. I'd really really like to know how to add an app under SuperUser or anything which will do the job to add the app in to the OS and which can't be killed by any Task Killer or anything.
Besides I also hate those Task Killer apps, they are meaningless unless an user do nothing regularly with his/her phone.
I've no Task Killer installed but once I used the built in Memory Clear feature and next day my schedule app got closed. From then I never touched it. But one thing if RAM usage goes above 400 MB I think sometime its good to clear the memory as it will help to refresh it. But Samsung should had put the Memory Clear feature more precisely.
Regards.
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