Database Users

Request to the devs, new version, new thread

Please start a new thread when you put out a new version of your rom.
By the time the second version comes out for the really good roms it's impossible to follow all the issues as there can be upwards of 1000 posts in the thread. Starting at the back doesn't help because of all the "how's your battery life?" posts. Then again, maybe that's the problem.
Anyway, I REALLY appreciate the work you guys do on these roms and kernels. I just wish it were easier to follow the flow of development.
Thanks for listening.
<flame retardant shield UP>

+1 .... i am with you !!!

+1 . Yeah it so annoying to go through thousands of old threads...

Moved to general

Moved? Do the people I'm talking to ever look in "general?"

I support this all the way people always tell everyone to use search but you barely ever get what your looking for..

michaelh99 said:
Please start a new thread when you put out a new version of your rom.
By the time the second version comes out for the really good roms it's impossible to follow all the issues as there can be upwards of 1000 posts in the thread. Starting at the back doesn't help because of all the "how's your battery life?" posts. Then again, maybe that's the problem.
Anyway, I REALLY appreciate the work you guys do on these roms and kernels. I just wish it were easier to follow the flow of development.
Thanks for listening.
<flame retardant shield UP>
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+100000000

Great suggestion. totally agree.

michaelh99 said:
Moved? Do the people I'm talking to ever look in "general?"
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Well it doesn't have anything to do with developing..
Although you do make a pretty good point, it is a LOT easier just to update the thread with a new download link & change log.
It would also cut down on a lot of clutter in that section.
If you are running an older version of what that dev posted, you shouldn't post bugs unless it didn't say it was fixed in the newest version of what they posted.

Master™ said:
Well it doesn't have anything to do with developing..
Although you do make a pretty good point, it is a LOT easier just to update the thread with a new download link & change log.
It would also cut down on a lot of clutter in that section.
If you are running an older version of what that dev posted, you shouldn't post bugs unless it didn't say it was fixed in the newest version of what they posted.
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Master, your thread specifically is almost impossible to follow because of the almost 10,000 posts in it.
The easy fix to your update example above:
1) go to post for last release
2) hit edit
3) Ctrl-A to select all and Ctrl-C to copy
4) Hit Cancel
5) Open new thread and Ctrl-V to paste
6) edit pasted text and hit preview
7) review the post and make corrections as needed
8) hit submit and wait for the flood

T313C0mun1s7 said:
Master, your thread specifically is almost impossible to follow because of the almost 10,000 posts in it.
The easy fix to your update example above:
1) go to post for last release
2) hit edit
3) Ctrl-A to select all and Ctrl-C to copy
4) Hit Cancel
5) Open new thread and Ctrl-V to paste
6) edit pasted text and hit preview
7) review the post and make corrections as needed
8) hit submit and wait for the flood
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
9. Delete the old thread.
I think it's more of a "Let's see whose thread can get the mot posts" type of thing. Because it actually makes little to no sense to update a thread from months ago that is full of non-existent issues and then ask people to search through that thread as if the answer is supposed to jump out at them. Luckily I have given up on trying to read threads.

kangxi said:
9. Delete the old thread.
I think it's more of a "Let's see whose thread can get the mot posts" type of thing. Because it actually makes little to no sense to update a thread from months ago that is full of non-existent issues and then ask people to search through that thread as if the answer is supposed to jump out at them. Luckily I have given up on trying to read threads.
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Well first, you cannot delete your own threads nor close them.
There is a search button in the threads for a reason also..
I guess it could be a thing to get people into saying what version they are on when they report a bug/ask a question..
Just a thought

I have to say I kinda agree with the OP, although obviously from your point of view its just making work.
I run your Axura 2.1 ROM Master, and was feeling a little lag from it here and there. I was looking for one piece of information... "can I use OCLF with this ROM"... had bad experiences with Voodoo in the past.
Man, it was no mean feat to find this out. Eventually, I put the new Voodoo kernel on my phone and its running flawlessly (utterly love this ROM by the way man. Seriously. Better than anything out there by a royal mile), but it was a hugely frustrating process to figure out whether I had any other options. To get a definitive answer. Just to find something simple.
I've often asked people direct questions in PM, and got no response, or at least an unhelpful one. As a technical guy, but not a developer, any questions I have are usually pretty specific, and not newbie in nature, and finding the answer is a massive problem. One of the biggest hurdles to this is 1000+ post threads.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

Master™ said:
Well first, you cannot delete your own threads nor close them.
There is a search button in the threads for a reason also..
I guess it could be a thing to get people into saying what version they are on when they report a bug/ask a question..
Just a thought
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Click to collapse
Personally I think the old threads should remain anyhow. They help to keep the versions separate, not everyone upgrades right away. People should post in the correct thread for their version, but right not this is not possible.
Also, the old, dead thread clean up is not the responsibility of the OP, but of the forum admin. I have owned and run many forums. I have used ikonboard, vBulletin, Invision Power Board, MyBB, Phorum, phpBB, and my favorite Simple Machines Forum. All of them have in the administrative back end the option to cleanup old dead threads with no posts with a set time frame.

Problem is rom gets updated, 300 posts of "OMG Thank You, flashing soon!!!!"

They don't care.. The only thing they care about is getting donations. Higher post conts = more attention = more donations. In summary: they do not care
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

grennis said:
They don't care.. The only thing they care about is getting donations. Higher post conts = more attention = more donations. In summary: they do not care
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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Sorry, gotta call BS on this one. Based on recent events I can guess that you are speaking at least generally if not specifically to Master, and he already addressed (IN THIS VERY THREAD) his thoughts both for and against. In fact so far he has been the ONLY developer to come forward and state he would be willing to do this.
Your statement does not contribute in any way to the discussion at hand, and I personally to not appreciate anyone that posts in running threads just to flamebait and be defamatory. Please check yourself.

I think an easier and better solution exists.
The problem for us the users is that we cannot find which posts relate to which rom version, correct?
The problem for developers if we choose to open a new thread for every release is to follow all 20 threads.
An easy solution would be to have one thread for the rom as it is now, BUT with every update of the rom (and the first page) the developer can add another post with update details at the end of his thread (basically a simple post reply) and put a link to it on the first page in the change log.
This way people viewing the change log will have links to the parts of the thread that discuss that update, while developers won't have 20 threads to maintain.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

Whether you are following 20 threads or the same number of posts in 1 thread the work is the same because you have to reply either way. Also, all versions in 1 thread plus people still using old versions leads to confusion, and confusion equals having to clarify which ultimately means more posts. If you subscribe to the threads and use proper subjects for the thread you should get an e-mail that not only tells you there was a reply, but to which thread version and you can prioritize your replies, ie. Current version I will answer that now, 3 versions back and he can wait until I am done with what I am working on or else he can upgrade. Also since the older threads will get posted to less frequently the chance of multiple posts after the e-mail is less, so if the question is something that was fixed in a newer version you can decide it is not even worth your time to reply. As a developer you can not do that now because there may be many replies after the one that triggered your subscription e-mail that you will not see until you visit the forum.
Trust me, I have run a BUNCH of forums, and 1 thread per version is a better idea for many reasons you have not even thought of yet. If you fully think it out you will realize that it is actually easier to keep track of the 2 or 3 most resent threads people actually pay attention to then try to track the last 2 or 3 versions in 1 thread.

I've run a few big forums too so I do know what im talking about.
With 95% of users upgrade to a newer version of the rom there would be no need to keep the threads for the old roms because no one will write there. But you can't delete them. So instead of having 20 threads with 20 roms, we will have 400 threads for 20 versions of those 20 roms if we follow your idea
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

[Q] Thread/Sticky for 2.3.3 exploit?

Please don't discount me as some ignorant noob despite my fairly low profile account.
I actually used to have an HTC Touch Pro 2 and used to flash custom ROMs like it was my job but once I got an EVO I decided against it because I didn't really have any complaints with the stock system. Until now of course.
I accepted the OTA update over the air without really knowing what it was. So I decided to go online and research what was actually included in the update and after doing some XDA searching was quickly refreshed on the joys of flashing customs. In the painful irony of it all, I quickly realized that by accepting the update I had screwed myself into some custom flashing purgatory where I suffer from that "itch" for a new custom ROM that we all know.
Anyways, long story short, I was wondering if there was any type of sticky/thread that is continuously updated on the progress of a 2.3.3 exploit or maybe the progress of the unrevoked team so that when I search for that sense of hope multiple times a day I can simply check one location. I did some searching for such a thread but returned no results.
Thanks in advance and hats off to the devs for all that they do.

damn....that sux that you had no complaints until AFTER the OTA update. thats definitely a bad stroke of luck.
I would say, in the mean time, try out different home launchers to try to get the different feel for them (i.e. if it's the Sense launcher that's bugging you, change it up ) I like both LPP (LauncherPro Plus) and ADW...tho I prefer LPP
and to answer the main question: No...there isnt a sticky or thread discussing the progress of the root exploit.
freddykrue said:
I accepted the OTA update over the air without really knowing what it was. So I decided to go online and research what was actually included in the update and after doing some XDA searching was quickly refreshed on the joys of flashing customs. In the painful irony of it all, I quickly realized that by accepting the update I had screwed myself into some custom flashing purgatory where I suffer from that "itch" for a new custom ROM that we all know.
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hopefully the devs will get the exploit out soon so 1)we stop getting the threads demanding the exploit (im not saying this is one of them...just saying that there have been 1 too many of those threads as of late) 2) so that you can start experiencing that "itch" again
I personally will take the OTA and then reroot after the exploit is out so that I'll know how to help others

Progress won't be mentioned until the actual exploit is found, so there's no need to search for a progress report. Until the exploit is found, the progress would be "nothing yet"... so that's pointless to post. As soon as a root method is made, you won't have to search for it. Go to the Evo Q&A section and you'll see questions about it - you'll see discussion & celebration in the General section. You'll probably see the root method itself (unless it's Unrevoked) in the Development section. You won't have to go past the first page to know it's here.
That being said, there's no need for a sticky. And unless you're trying to build a root method yourself, no need to search.
People have to realize that these devs do this in their free time, for free. It bothers me that people that have never given these devs anything expect the new root method now. I'm not talking about you, but so many others come here whining about nobody telling them when it will be ready or about nobody rooting it yet, as if they're owed something. If I had the skills to find a root exploit, I would stop working on it because of these kids *****ing and moaning.
Again, I'm not talking about you... I'm just ranting.

I agree completely. I found it funny that you guys call these guys "trolls." It's perfect. On the PPCGeeks forums back when I was flashing for my HTC Diamond we just called them douchebags but I like trolls, it's clever.
I also wish I had the skills to discover the exploit. I would love to give back to the community. It's all a little over my head though. I'm just another guy reaping the benefits of those generous enough to provide a more enjoyable experience from our devices and liberation from the corporate *cough* horsesh;t.

freddykrue said:
I agree completely. I found it funny that you guys call these guys "trolls." It's perfect. On the PPCGeeks forums back when I was flashing for my HTC Diamond we just called them douchebags but I like trolls, it's clever.
I also wish I had the skills to discover the exploit. I would love to give back to the community. It's all a little over my head though. I'm just another guy reaping the benefits of those generous enough to provide a more enjoyable experience from our devices and liberation from the corporate *cough* horsesh;t.
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the worst part of this thread is that you think you're experienced/old school 'cause you used to flash a diamond. dude, that phone is pretty new in my mind. sit down and read. if it comes up, it'll come up.

detusueno said:
the worst part of this thread is that you think you're experienced/old school 'cause you used to flash a diamond. dude, that phone is pretty new in my mind. sit down and read. if it comes up, it'll come up.
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The HTC Diamond is like 3 or 4 years old by now. These days that's an eternity. I tried using my old diamond for a week or so a couple of months ago, and while I still love the size and form factor, I can't stand the lag factor. The os of windows mobile doesn't bother me, but the lack of power sure does.

detusueno said:
the worst part of this thread is that you think you're experienced/old school 'cause you used to flash a diamond. dude, that phone is pretty new in my mind. sit down and read. if it comes up, it'll come up.
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Click to collapse
I wouldn't consider myself old school at all but I would say I have experience. I was flashing for about 2 or 3 years with a combination of the Diamond and TP2.
I'm not crediting myself with any kind of "elderly knowledge" if that's what your concerned about. Some newbs probably know more than me definitely with the Evo being a different OS altogether.
And yes, I loved the phone but the lag was unbearable.

[Q] should i pass on the latest (8.4.4.11) update?

.. and hang on for 3.2?
what's in it for me?
i have the b60 tab and dock with no battery drain issues; my youtube already plays @ 30fps fullscreen; wifi connection is solid; i'm happy with the responsiveness of the tab generally and i'm not getting an excessive number of reboots or FCs.
some people are reporting problems after installing the update that they didn't previously have. why take the chance?

read http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1041502
Build number: 8.4.4.11-20110711
Kernel changed.
Upgraded Wifi driver.
Upgraded GPS driver.
New Tegra boot animation.
SRS sound profile updated.
Nvidia TegraZone app added.
Video gallery app added (videos are now separated from the image and video gallery). (possibly US only)
Option to hide keyboard notification popup on dock connect.
Splashtop app updated. (not HD, yet)
MyLibrary now shows a book count.
Xbox 360 controller support.
WMV support added to stock gallery app.
Click to expand...
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im not going to beg you to update it or not, its your decision. you can always revert back.

do it
asafdas

Seriously admins, move the topic making abilities to a much higher threshold.

jcopernicus said:
seriously admins, move the topic making abilities to a much higher threshold.
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+111111111111111111111111111

JCopernicus said:
Seriously admins, move the topic making abilities to a much higher threshold.
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Click to collapse
Not even that. I think there needs to be a karma system implemented, based on the amount of quality of your post in a specific thread will grant you the ability to make threads with the exception of the Q&A forum.
I just think it's kind of silly people make their own threads when there are 10 other threads talking about 8.4.4.11. Couldn't you just post that in a existing thread instead of feeling special and making a thread of your own? :|

JCopernicus said:
Seriously admins, move the topic making abilities to a much higher threshold.
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what's wrong with the topic? for those not having problems with .5, the possibility that this may be an unnecessary or counter-productive update ought to be discussed on its merits. if you have a relevant opinion on this then state it. don't slag me for asking the question.

zephiK said:
Not even that. I think there needs to be a karma system implemented, based on the amount of quality of your post in a specific thread will grant you the ability to make threads with the exception of the Q&A forum.
I just think it's kind of silly people make their own threads when there are 10 other threads talking about 8.4.4.11. Couldn't you just post that in a existing thread instead of feeling special and making a thread of your own? :|
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possibly, but then arguably it's a unique perspective deserving its own thread. in any case, a/ there was no .11 thread on the front page when i started this one, just ones complaining about various (possibly related to the update) problems, and b/ there's plenty of bandwidth here anyway. so chill out.

theabsurdman said:
possibly, but then arguably it's a unique perspective deserving its own thread. in any case, a/ there was no .11 thread on the front page when i started this one, just ones complaining about various (possibly related to the update) problems, and b/ there's plenty of bandwidth here anyway. so chill out.
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I'd have to agree with the others. I mean, all you had to do was look at the second page and you would have found a OTA post with plenty of opinions. It's 42 pages. I know it may be a pain to read it all, but I think the point is that people need to help themselves a bit more and actually look. If you're not willing to look, why should someone put in their valuable time to reiterate the same thing? You look at the points, good and bad, and make a decision for yourself. However, from what I see from your original post, it already seems like you have your answer.
The 'plenty of bandwidth' issue is irrelevant. What's more important is that every time someone posts an similar issue (that probably already has answers or opinions) or an "should i do this?", the more relevant topics get pushed down even further. Most people don't want to wade past 2 pages to find relevant content. I know I don't.
Anyway, I apologize for bumping this thread any further.
My opinion on the matter is that the update did improve speed and reliability for me so thumbs up for the update. Now on to 3.2 please!

theabsurdman said:
what's wrong with the topic? for those not having problems with .5, the possibility that this may be an unnecessary or counter-productive update ought to be discussed on its merits. if you have a relevant opinion on this then state it. don't slag me for asking the question.
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If I were you I'd just wait for the ICS update.
It's bound to be a much better upgrade that these intermittent dot updates.

JCopernicus said:
If I were you I'd just wait for the ICS update.
It's bound to be a much better upgrade that these intermittent dot updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This update actually fixes alot of small niggling problems, including the speed at which it comes back to life when pressing the unlock button on the dock.
I was pretty happy before, very happy now.. And with 3.2 just around the corner, life is good...

I don't personally see any reason why anybody would ever "hold back" from a software update unless there was widespread knowledge of huge issues, which you probably wouldn't need to ask about, you'd already know. In fact, you're probably going to have to install it to get to 3.2 anyway. It's not like it takes more than ~5 minutes, are people that lazy?

I did the update and my transformer went to crap freezing up all the time screen going unresponisive. I was mad.......factory reset and life is good again I recommend the update if you do have problems reset the tablet

Just want to say..thanks!

I wanted to detail how much different the subsections are in xda, and how much you guys rock in this one.
Rant!-
I got jumped on in the mt4g section for posting a bug that was persisting through SEVERAL factory resets and rom flashes..for some reason i kept getting errors for processes for Samsung (on a htc..) And sign in failure for verizon (on a t mobile phone ). Even after wiping and re flashing different roms these problems persisted..so i detailed my attempt to find out why i got the bug, asked other users if they had experienced it (none had) and eventually traced the problem to the test rom i had installed. I brought this to the dev's attention by linking to my q&a thread on his dev thread only to be scolded that the issues were known, it was a test rom that i had no business flashing anyways, i should have read the thread as the issues were mentioned and known (which is why other users had never heard or experienced the issue??) And then the dev, on my account, pulled the link to the rom which angered other users whom then joined in chorus to say it was my own fault for not reading the bugs, when i said it wasn't in the bug list, was told "he doesn't have time to make a bug list for every test rom" (so where i was supposed to read that this bug existed i was never able to find, even after requesting to be linked to it).
The real icing on the cake was the fact that i spent 7 hours troubleshooting the bug, only a nandroid backup fixed it and thank god i had done a backup before installing it, and had searched extensively on Google in general and within xda forum for anyone having similar issue and no result, but was looked at as if i had wandered in, said "oh this looks cool"and flashed it and then proceeded to spam the dev thread with my problems.
Needless to say, I'll be selling this phone and not returning to that section as i am clearly not wanted there..rant over.
I want to say thanks to the devs in this section for being patient and helpful in the face of extreme ignorance, and to the users for understanding that not everyone on this site with less than 500 posts is a noob expecting to be spoon fed. I fear some of these communities are becoming to exclusive rather than inclusive. Transformer owners and developers as i have seen are very friendly and patient and I've gotten to like you all..
Even you goodintentions..
Thanks for showing that xda can be an inclusive community!
OK, flame on...

WRONG SECTION - USELESS POST! MODS PLEASE DELETE!!11!!ONE!1211
Ok, joking aside, I'm guessing maybe because tablet owners tend to be older then you're average high schooler we have a maturer crowd here?
I go by, if I can't help, then move on. No need to "flame" someone and get in an online battle...
And are you really going to get rid of your mt4g because of rude/inconsiderate people on the internet?

To join in on the rant.... READ READ READ READ READ..... so when are you supposed to post?
You would think that low post numbers mean more reading and less "got any updates?" or "Ya i agree". I personally only registered because i had a question that i couldn't find the answer to. Having been around forums for a while now (and i mean a long time) i have seen your situation at least once a year and sometimes it can be because the bug just totally pisses them off coz they cant fix it.
Totally agree.... the devs and gurus here are amazing. This truly is the place to be if you wanna hack and slash the device you have.
So thanks to all of you that make our devices so much more than we bought so that we can do whatever the hell we want with them.
Thanks again

I agree with OP. XDA has become a huge flame war where I feel that most people just post in threads to get their post count up. You have very few in here that will flame you for posting in the wrong section or repeating something that has already been posted(8 pages back).
Nature of the beast I guess. Next to head-fi.org this is one of the kindest sections I know.

It isn't my primary phone, and was intending to do that anyway, but the fact that the community is so immature and now hates me, there is no incentive to keep it
Oh well..on to the next device
EDIT: (One more thing I found funny, but no point in starting another thread)
While researching NVFlash and ubuntu/debian on the TF101 I came across this quote;
.. WARNING:: some/all TF101G (the 3G model) are expected to have a
different SBK. Until you know the SBK that corresponds to your
device, you *can not install Debian*.
To acquire an SBK, perform rubber-hose or black-bag cryptanalysis
on the associated ASUS staff. Once successful, please publish the
SBK widely, as (AFAIK) ASUS cannot revoke it from units that have
already rolled out.
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LMFAO, I just read Applied Cryptography by Bruce Schneier..if any of you are unfamiliar with 'rubber hose' and 'black bag' cryptanalysis, google it

I agree so far from what I have seen in this fora. I have only had my tablet for about a week. But in deciding which tablet to buy, I read many, many different device forums to get a feel for just as many things. ROMs, Kernels, un/locked bootloaders, support and even accessories. I did the same thing when I bought a new phone. That is where I remember Baseballfanz from. The NS forums.
The thing with the post count is kind of strange. I have seen several people with below 50 posts, phrase an articulate question with nearly all the neccessary info. Whereas I have seen others with 500, 800, 1k posts with like you said, small blobs about nothing. Those just waste my time and I want to delete them, but I can't.
Similar to your situation, only my experience was the knight in shining armor. There was this person in the Vibrant forums who would just pounce on noobs about searching. I had just come from a Motorola forum that was by far one of the most helpful places I had ever been. That is actually where I learned about, well everything basically. Anyways, back to the Vibrant. I had gotten tired of seeing this person post the same replies all the time and flaming noobs. I thrashed him really hard about it and brought to his attention why they were asking these things (ever been in panic mode with your $500-$700 phone?) and sometimes the search button brings up more info that you need. You can easily lose track of why you were searching in the first place. He actually posted a thread apologizing and stating that he would be more helpful in the future (it has since been deleted).
Best advice I can give to someone is read, read and read but also give all the information that you can when asking the question. YOU may not think it is relevant, but I might.

ROM Release Rate

I understand, after 2+ years, that ROM development and the forums for the EVO are gonna slow down. Devs are going to move on to other devices, but there is a really disturbing trend here that is irritating the hell out of me.
ROMs used to be released as Aplha's Beta's RC's, final, etc. You could look at the OP and see everything about the ROM. Devs took their time crafting something unique.
Now, I'm seeing these ROMS come out at a rapid pace and I'm not liking it for several reasons.
1) Poorly written OP's that don't even list the Android base version or the kernel, etc.
2) The same ROM with different names and the only real differences are a few 3rd party apps, or a slight theme change.
3) ROMs released as finals, with a ton of bugs. I'm not talking about FFC, Netflix, 4G bugs on ICS/JB ROMS; I'm talking about ROMS with no Wifi, for example. The majority use WiFi. Why the HELL would you release something where one of the most important aspects doesn't even work?? It's like not paying attention to details is suddenly OK
Settings that don't stick. Sounds that don't stick. Constant System Process Errors. These are pre-release errors, and I don't see them getting fixed, because it's become like a race to port every other ROM from every other device and tweak to boot up on the Evo, then letting it go.
I REALLY wish I could take the time and learn how to properly cook up my own ROM. My OCD of paying attention to details would probably make it great.

Hipkat thats the best thing ive heard in weeks,someone finally speaking out about the BS thats being posted now days and its like everyones in a race to see who can come out with the most borked roms,lol,like you said,they are all the same,except the apps and some themeing and half of them cant do that either,i'm sure this isnt meant to be a bashing session,its just getting rediculous with the drama some are causing and all the crappy ass roms being released,some guys do know what their doing,theres been 1 or 2 that i've put out that i shouldnt have,but come on guys at least take your time and try to do it right,only takes a little common sense and effort.If you havent noticed,over half the members and devs have left because of the BS,when i started doing roms,it was fun,nows its just a big joke,lol.
I dont care if anyone gets pissed about this and i'm sure they will,but oh well life goes on,you will eventually get over it.

It's definitely not a bashing, but a call for Devs to take a little more time and do it right

HipKat said:
It's definitely not a bashing, but a call for Devs to take a little more time and do it right
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I don't Dev, Cook, Build, Port or whatever term is used so I have alot of respect for those that do. With that being said I would also state that I am in complete agreement with you and Diablo.
I look at damned near every topic started in the Dev forum just to see what is being made. I take weeks to look at a new ROM and follow the threads to see what comes of it (with the only exception being Mazda's new CAJB ROM. On that one I went with name recognition and am pleased that I did)
In regards to the mass influx of ROMs I'll say this: If you guys don't take the time to keep up with each item you produce, work on bugs, add new options, answer questions from the users then you'll soon find yourself out of favor. Your reputation here, just like in RL, is something of value. It takes very little to earn trust, respect and loyalty. Most people will always give you the benefit of the doubt. Do something to devalue that trust and it can be nearly impossible to regain.
I think some wisdom can be gleaned by the following quote:
jamieg71 said:
I've seen devs, chefs, hackers, w/e, that make statements like "I do this for myself and just choose to share" or things to that effect. I call BS. I won't speak for anyone else but myself when I say, I do this for the thrill of it, for the challenge, to learn, and to share. I'd be lying if I said I didn't care about d/l numbers or that seeing my thanks meter grow did not give me some juvenalalistic (is that a word?) thrill. The fact is, guys like me doing this stuff get off on it...
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We know why you do it, and if you want to keep your junkies and not lose your rep, then make sure you take the time to Develop your craft and thereby make a better product for the masses...
Sorry for the rant

Well said, and nice quote from Jamie, who, btw, you notice took a lot of time with Reloaded

HipKat said:
Well said, and nice quote from Jamie, who, btw, you notice took a lot of time with Reloaded
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...lol, 'nuff said!

I think everyone needs to remember the difference between Development and Port / Theme / Tweak / Mod. That simple labeling would be a start

Over in Evo LTE land, they have finally recognized this distinction by creating entirely separate forums for "HTC EVO 4G LTE Android Development" and "HTC EVO 4G LTE Original Android Development"
One is for tweaks or ports, and the other is for people who actually compile something.

I made a request for the same original dev section but got denied as our device is to old.
I agree that there are a ton of ports and not enough originality or bugs being fixed. What I would like to state us that the op is stating that a lot have some third party apps but that's like calling the kettle black. You yourself have a rerelease of a miui from where all you did was slap your team name in the thread. I believe the original thread still exists. I'm not calling you out at all but at the same time the work that goes into all these ports or mods or what not is a ton. I myself have my rom thread and some new stuff coming out but I don't call people out usually on their stuff unless its a pure kang(meaning an actual using of ur work with out permission) not a duplicate port.
Yeah some of the revs here could put a little more work in and for sure learn to organize their rom thread a whole hell of a lot better but at the same time who else do u see bringing the newest and best to a two year old device.
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It's not that they have 3rd party apps, all ROMS do, it's that some ROMS are just the same ROM with a few different 3rd party apps, or a slight variation in theming, and I mean real slight, but tbh, my biggest beef was with the OP not even listing what kernel is in the ROM, or if it has A2SD or a way to get it working, or the version of Android it's based on, etc.
Add in bug reports that get ignored or the person posting the report gets demeaned for it.
Mostly, it's just the sloppiness that I see going on over the last few months. Too hasty to release something without really perfecting it first

HipKat said:
It's not that they have 3rd party apps, all ROMS do, it's that some ROMS are just the same ROM with a few different 3rd party apps, or a slight variation in theming, and I mean real slight, but tbh, my biggest beef was with the OP not even listing what kernel is in the ROM, or if it has A2SD or a way to get it working, or the version of Android it's based on, etc.
Add in bug reports that get ignored or the person posting the report gets demeaned for it.
Mostly, it's just the sloppiness that I see going on over the last few months. Too hasty to release something without really perfecting it first
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I can agree with that there. sloppy op's without all the listings of what is added or taken out and what its running with a q & a section amoung other things.

I feel like we developers and porters alike should make a check list. Every time you want to post something, run through the list and then once everything is there, read again. If it seems like a business proposition (detailed, understandable, provocative and complete) then, that is the right moment to unleash it.

Thats exactly what i do,i make a list in notepad of what i want to do to the rom,then i go through and check it off as i go,wahla,i have a channelog,so to speak,then post it on the thread.Just like in my 4 Kornerz thread..... http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1612933

Same thing I'm gonna do as I try and update this MIUI GB ROM

What's funny is that the main reason I always hated opening ROM threads is because I'm completely OCD and feel like the posts have to make perfect sense. I try for my thread to make a little bit of sense at least at this point. And I try to keep change logs, bug reports & FAQs up to date.
But then again, I only have one ROM thread in this device section.
----------------------
Current Device: HTC EVO 4G LTE | ROM: toasted-deck CM10 | Kernel: Stock

Kernel should be listed.
a2sd included/not included AND if a specific version is known to work/not work.
Gapps included/not included (you can usually tell from the size of the ROM, but still)
SuperSU vs. Superuser
Wifi and data working/not working
Boot animation audio (can lead to uncomfortable moments when flashing in restrooms, in bed, around family or in TSA security lines--- yes, all personal experiences)
Probably much more...
RootzWiki kinda sorta tried to standardize some of that in OP headers. Would be cool to see that concept expanded in a visually pleasing manner. But, I know people like sprucing up their OP to their liking. Example:
Source: https://github.com/s...mmc-ra-recovery
Mod Type: Recovery Difficulty: Moderate Mod Status: Kang Mod Base: Carrier:
Requires Root: Yes Apply In: Fastboot Optional: Themed Optional: Android Version:
I think ports are great. If the developer is planning on just bringing it over and leaving it alone I think that's fine, but they should be upfront and say "Hey, I did this. Probably won't do any more with it myself, but anyone is welcome to add to it. Otherwise, enjoy."
What I'd really like to see is the people who respond first after an OP + OP reserved do something with that slot besides planting their flag of happening to be online at the right time (e.g. "First. Looks cool!"). They could take the lead, especially for very active developers with many ROMs and threads, to follow that thread and maintain an updated ROM Cheat Sheet/Known Fixes post. How many times have you followed the development of a ROM and things like the new boot animation didn't make it into the next update because the developer forgot. Then people post, "Hey, what happened to the boot ani" five or six times. Then a nice person posts it on Dropbox. Then a few people say other things. Then people repeat the question. Then people point them to the Dropbox link two pages back. Repeat. Repeat. Probably wouldn't matter though since a lot of people never read the OP. They sure wouldn't read that. I'll shut up.

smelkus said:
Kernel should be listed.
a2sd included/not included AND if a specific version is known to work/not work.
Gapps included/not included (you can usually tell from the size of the ROM, but still)
SuperSU vs. Superuser
Wifi and data working/not working
Boot animation audio (can lead to uncomfortable moments when flashing in restrooms, in bed, around family or in TSA security lines--- yes, all personal experiences)
Probably much more...
RootzWiki kinda sorta tried to standardize some of that in OP headers. Would be cool to see that concept expanded in a visually pleasing manner. But, I know people like sprucing up their OP to their liking. Example:
Source: https://github.com/s...mmc-ra-recovery
Mod Type: Recovery Difficulty: Moderate Mod Status: Kang Mod Base: Carrier:
Requires Root: Yes Apply In: Fastboot Optional: Themed Optional: Android Version:
I think ports are great. If the developer is planning on just bringing it over and leaving it alone I think that's fine, but they should be upfront and say "Hey, I did this. Probably won't do any more with it myself, but anyone is welcome to add to it. Otherwise, enjoy."
What I'd really like to see is the people who respond first after an OP + OP reserved do something with that slot besides planting their flag of happening to be online at the right time (e.g. "First. Looks cool!"). They could take the lead, especially for very active developers with many ROMs and threads, to follow that thread and maintain an updated ROM Cheat Sheet/Known Fixes post. How many times have you followed the development of a ROM and things like the new boot animation didn't make it into the next update because the developer forgot. Then people post, "Hey, what happened to the boot ani" five or six times. Then a nice person posts it on Dropbox. Then a few people say other things. Then people repeat the question. Then people point them to the Dropbox link two pages back. Repeat. Repeat. Probably wouldn't matter though since a lot of people never read the OP. They sure wouldn't read that. I'll shut up.
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LOL, you forgot 'Lather, Rinse...'
Who else clicked the link

While I agree with the OP 100%, I think at the end of the day there is NO rule that states that you need to do all that..... This is for FREE, and therefore we should be happy with we get on our EVO's nowadays..... I wish developers took their time to put a fully detail change log, bug list Q&A's section, but honestly if we don't like the way certain devs handle their threads, then just move on to the next Rom either way I don't develop, and I can figure out most stuff regarding a Rom by myself now, so I'm just thankful for all the roms out for the og EVO.
Edit: what I would like to know is what's going on with all the Rom teams flip flopping, what's up with that? Sorry to go off topic, lol.
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Sorry, but while I appreciate the freeness of the work done and am grateful for it, there should still be enough info to identify exactly what you're getting into.
Perfect example. A lot of ICS/JB ROMS require the patched A2SD file. Good luck finding it. Why not add a link to the OP?? Same with GAPPS
And the date that it was released is much appreciated, although not as critical. The Android version if it's a Sense and/or GB ROM is definitely something that should be there, along with the kernel.

PHE-NOM said:
Edit: what I would like to know is what's going on with all the Rom teams flip flopping, what's up with that? Sorry to go off topic, lol.
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Two teams merged. Some people have left teams. I myself left td to not look partial towards a certain group.
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