Screen Comparisons: Contrast Ratio - Galaxy Tab 10.1 General

I've been trying to understand the relative differences between the IPS displays used in the IPAD 2 and the Transformer, the Super PLS display of the Galaxy Tab 10.1 and the TFT used in the XOOM. I settled on contrast ratio as an objective means of comparison.
Article 1 XOOM: 750
Article 2 XOOM: 597!
iPad 2: 775
Galaxy Tab 10.1: 830
Transformer: 763
Article Quote: "Contrast ratio is also better on the Galaxy Tab 10.1: 830:1 vs 763:1 on the Eee Pad Transformer."
What surprises me the most out of all this, besides the XOOM discrepancies , is that the contrast of the Galaxy Tab 10.1 display is not as incredible as we were lead to believe. It compares favorably with IPS, but isn't really leaps and bounds better. In fact, it might have equivalent or slightly lower contrast than an IPS display, or conventional display but better viewing angles.
Interesting quote: "On the other hand IPS (and PLS) has significantly lower contrast ratios compared to the best VA based panels that Samsung and other manufacturers have used in high-end phones for years."
Side note is that the multiple contrast ratios for the XOOM screen might reflect the multiple screen sources/manufacturers that were used in different XOOMs.
Sources:
http://galaxytablife.com/2011/06/eee-pad-transformer-vs-galaxy-tab-10-1-comparison/
http://www.tabletreaderinfo.com/content/Motorola-Xoom-Tablet-Review/Screen.htm
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4191/motorola-xoom-review-first-honeycomb-tablet-arrives/2
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1291980086

The most important things to me on a tablet screen:
1. Color reproduction. Is it uniform and even? This leads me to
2. Viewing angles, top, bottom, left and right. Does the screen stay relatively sharp or does the image dissolve/wash out?
3. No back-light bleed. This is inexcusable regardless of the lectures people spout out about it being inherent to the technology. It's not when the product is designed correctly.
The panel in the GTab 10.1 is beautiful. It meets my criteria where the xoom failed on all of them and the iPad failed miserably on back-light bleed.
Contrast ratio to me is just a number. I have tolerances for all my electronics devices and to me, the panel on the Samsung is the clear winner in the tablet race. Let's hope the build quality follows suit. I'm already starting to get annoyed at how long a full charge takes.

The screen looks amazing! The only thing I noticed is that the screen calibration is a
little bit oversaturated. I'm planning on using mine as a photography/design portfolio and have noticed color shift when compared to my calibrated monitor.
Sent from my GT-P7510 using XDA Premium App

I had Xooms (with both screen versions Auo and Sharp), an I pad and now a Galaxy Tab 10.1 and the screen on my tab is far and awy better than all of them.
The Xoom has 2 screen fkavors, Sharp and Auo optronics. the screen mfg by Sharp had much better color saturation and better contrast, but unfortunately for me, a ton of light bleed due to a defect in the panel.
Specs only tell part of the story.
Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk

lordwinkevin said:
The screen looks amazing! The only thing I noticed is that the screen calibration is a
little bit oversaturated. I'm planning on using mine as a photography/design portfolio and have noticed color shift when compared to my calibrated monitor.
Sent from my GT-P7510 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When Samsung releases the kernel source, supercurio can start developing his Voodoo Sound and Screen tweaks for the SGT 10.1, which will make color reproduction much more realistic.

I'm new with android and this is awesome to hear. I also own the iPad 2 and Datacolor made an in app color calibrated picture viewer called SpyderGallery but an overall screen color calibration would be awesome!
Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1

matt310 said:
The most important things to me on a tablet screen:
1. Color reproduction. Is it uniform and even? This leads me to
2. Viewing angles, top, bottom, left and right. Does the screen stay relatively sharp or does the image dissolve/wash out?
3. No back-light bleed. This is inexcusable regardless of the lectures people spout out about it being inherent to the technology. It's not when the product is designed correctly.
The panel in the GTab 10.1 is beautiful. It meets my criteria where the xoom failed on all of them and the iPad failed miserably on back-light bleed.
Contrast ratio to me is just a number. I have tolerances for all my electronics devices and to me, the panel on the Samsung is the clear winner in the tablet race. Let's hope the build quality follows suit. I'm already starting to get annoyed at how long a full charge takes.
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Click to collapse
I threw these numbers out there because, so far, almost all the info on PLS panels used in the Galaxy Tab 10.1 has been primarily subjective. Its totally new technology.
However, recently, Samsung has started to develop the PLS Panels for use in stand-alone computer monitors, and some reviewers are beginning to analyze and reveiw the technology. This is a really interesting article, and "sheds some light" (to make a bad pun) on the PLS panel technology used in the Galaxy Tab 10.1, how it works and some of its pros and cons:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/monitors/display/samsung-sa850.html
Remember this is a stand alone PLS monitor, so one would expect its performance would exceed that of an integrated tablet screen, but they found a contrast ration of only 545:1. Thats pretty bad in my opinion. They try to theorize why this occurs:
"The low contrast ratio may be due to the poor uniformity of the backlight. The picture based on the results of my measurements shows a bright spot in the center of the screen, just where I measured the contrast ratio. That spot is not as bright as the bottom left corner, though.
Although the extent of the variation in brightness is exaggerated in the picture for illustrative purposes, the monitor is obviously far from ideal, especially with black. Talking about the exact numbers, the average nonuniformity of brightness for black is 8% whereas the maximum deflection from the base level is as high as 45%! For white, the average and maximum are 3.6% and 8.3%, respectively. It’s hard to say why the monitor is so good with white and so poor with black....."
So, disturbingly, they found the first dedicated PLS prototype monitor to have POOR contrast ratio!! Not what you would expect. They theorize that it might be due to poor backlighting, but it is worrisome.
To summarize what the reviewers found after examining this prototype PLS monitor:
Highs:
•Low response time, good color rendering, excellent viewing angles
•Full coverage of the sRGB color space
Lows
•Low contrast ratio
•Poor uniformity of backlight for black
If this review is accurate, these first panels seem to show that the PLS technology is good, but not great. Its an OK alternative to IPS but really not that stellar in its performance. Its biggest advantage seems to be that it is a cheap alternatative to IPS that has much better viewing angles.
Remember, one of the biggest selling points cited by Samsung was cost! Its cheaper to produce than IPS. That may be a larger motivation to Samsung than increased performance.
Of course, how this translates to the performance of our own toys is debateable, but its something to think about beyond the subjective impressions we have already heard.

That's definitely interesting. Perhaps the larger the panel, the greater the difficulty in achieving a uniform amount of back-light. I have definitely experienced this with clouding and flash-lighting on TV sets (and mainly the reason I switched to plasma - I'd rather roll the dice with image retention than sit and stare at uneven back-lighting during movies)
Have you read about the issues Samsung's having with the panel thickness on the GTab 8.9? There's not much other than a translated-from-Korean report, but it seems the company (and panel suppliers) use a very thin "G1F" touch panel for the 10.1, and may be forced to use a (40%!) thicker application (GFF) for the GTab 8.9 due to either shortages in supply or complications in the manufacturing process.
^I think that bit is a key factor when comparing display performance - anything that sits on top of the actual pixels will contribute to the clarity of the content being displayed. Here's the article: http://tablets-planet.com/2011/06/10/samsung-to-use-lower-quality-dispalys-on-some-galaxy-tab-8-9s/

matt310 said:
That's definitely interesting. Perhaps the larger the panel, the greater the difficulty in achieving a uniform amount of back-light. I have definitely experienced this with clouding and flash-lighting on TV sets (and mainly the reason I switched to plasma - I'd rather roll the dice with image retention than sit and stare at uneven back-lighting during movies)
Have you read about the issues Samsung's having with the panel thickness on the GTab 8.9? There's not much other than a translated-from-Korean report, but it seems the company (and panel suppliers) use a very thin "G1F" touch panel for the 10.1, and may be forced to use a (40%!) thicker application (GFF) for the GTab 8.9 due to either shortages in supply or complications in the manufacturing process.
^I think that bit is a key factor when comparing display performance - anything that sits on top of the actual pixels will contribute to the clarity of the content being displayed. Here's the article: http://tablets-planet.com/2011/06/10/samsung-to-use-lower-quality-dispalys-on-some-galaxy-tab-8-9s/
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Click to collapse
Thanks. Very interesting article. Especially considering that there has been a lot of talk about the quality control of the existing 10.1 panels. There have been threads about moisture under the screen, dust under the screen, lots of people with dead pixels. Haven't encountered nearly so many screen anomalies in other device forums. Wonder if that's the reason the GTAB 10.1 is so scarce in many places. Perhaps there are problems producing the 10.1 screens.
Oh and I went Plasma for all my TV's as well for the same reason, in addition to the faster response time. Even my video gaming TV is a Plasma. And I have never had a single problem with image retention.
Edit: Looks like another website has an article about the screen supply problem, only this time relating specifically to the GTAB 10.1. They speculate on a change in GTAB thickness if they can't make enough of the screens.
http://www.slashgear.com/samsung-galaxy-tab-10-1-to-be-thicker-than-ipad-2-due-to-supply-shortage-10158766/
Maybe soon there will be THREE versions of the GTAB 10.1: The 10.1, the 10.1v and the 10.1 series 2 extra thick!

I just found dust on my screen. Its definitely behind the glass panel.
Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1

Slashgear is rife with editorial errors. that article misquotes the one I linked earlier. They even have published content that indicates it's the 8.9 and not the 10.1 affected but the different panel thickness:
http://www.slashgear.com/galaxy-tab...tter-screen-in-some-areas-at-launch-10158611/
Either way, I doubt the US will see the thicker screen - they continued shipping AMOLED phone displays here despite a worldwide shortage, causing many other markets to receive Super LCD screens instead.

Related

Choose: 1024x68 IPS display or 1280x800 LCD display?

In comparing the iPad with the Xoom, no doubt the iPad's display looks nicer. I have Dell IPS and non-IPS monitors and the color gamut on the IPS looks nicer.
However, I don't think Motorola "cheaped" out on the display as I've been hearing in passing. I think what it came down to is this no parts manufacturer has developed a mobile IPS display at 1280x800 because if they did, you know Apple would've used it in their MacBook Pro's.
So, if you were VP of Moto's Product Development, would you have made the same decision?
UPDATE:
Here's a link to an image that you can use to test image quality across different device. Try to display at 100% as different scaling algorithms may degrade the image quality.
ips for sure. Love the xoom, but the display is not the best. Even my Viewsonic G tablet does a better job displaying photos when viewing straight on. Maybe someone will figure out a way to tweak the xoom display for better contrast and color.
For a device this small, I'll take the larger resolution, and quality wise, I'm perfectly happy with the Xoom display (particularly after turning off auto brightness).
Now if we're talking about a LCD for PC, I'll keep my IPS
nswenson said:
ips for sure. Love the xoom, but the display is not the best. Even my Viewsonic G tablet does a better job displaying photos when viewing straight on. Maybe someone will figure out a way to tweak the xoom display for better contrast and color.
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Click to collapse
The stock photo viewer does suck. If the image is scaled at all, it looks a bit garbled.
Go to the market and download QuickPic. It's a MUCH better photo gallery app, and even large images taken with my DSLR look good scaled down.
codeman05 said:
For a device this small, I'll take the larger resolution, and quality wise, I'm perfectly happy with the Xoom display (particularly after turning off auto brightness).
Now if we're talking about a LCD for PC, I'll keep my IPS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd have to agree. I'll take 1280x800 and slightly reduced image qualit over 1024x768
When I get my Xoom, I plan to do a cbr/cbz comparison against my R10 (1024x768 IPS screen).
IPS is still LCD. IPS is just one of the better types of LCD panel, and hence your thread title is weird.
Why are some people saying that the LCD on Xoom is non-IPS? Has it been confirmed already? I can't find the model number of the Xoom LCD panel. iFixit doesn't list it, maybe I can email them and ask. But from all the review pictures and videos I've seen so far, the view angel of the Xoom LCD does seem very wide, on par with typical IPS panel. Color reproduction-wise, it can vary a lot among IPS panels depending on model. Without doubt, the one on the iPad is exceptional. But then, with the volume that Apple is shipping, they probably won't have much problem getting some custom made specification.
EDIT: Ok, I just Googled. iSuppli has the part list
http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/XOOMBOM-Totals-$359-92-IHS-iSuppli-Teardown-Reveals.aspx
The display model is AUOptronics B101EW04 V.0, and it doesn't mention the panel type (no, TFT is not a panel type). Googling this model number gives me nothing. iSuppli does mention that the IPS panel on the iPad is infact AFFS panel, a high quatlity and newer type of IPS panel (those who have modded their Thinkpad X200 are familiar with this type of panel).
Alright, answering my own question.
Did some Googling and it seems that AUO doesn't make any IPS panel. Cannot find B101EW04 on their website, but their website does list a B101EW05. Judging from the model number it may be similar to the B101EW04 that Xoom uses. Perhaps it's a newer model that replaces the B101EW04?
http://www.auo.com/?sn=149&lang=en-US&c=34&n=146
B101EW05 is a 10.1" 1280x800 VA panel. VA panels are high quality panels that are comparable to IPS. Dell WFP 2407, 2407-HC, and 2408 (and maybe more, I just know these models) all use VA panels and everyone knows that they look exceptional. The B101EW05 looks spectacular on spec sheet, and enters into production only in Q4 2010. Perhaps just a little bit too late to be employed on the Xoom?
Someone in another thread that is a professional photographers said the xoom is more accurate on color than his ipad, for what it's worth.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
roebeet said:
When I get my Xoom, I plan to do a cbr/cbz comparison against my R10 (1024x768 IPS screen).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you also keeping yours now??
Don't confuse a bright and colorful display with accuracy. Accurate means the way it looks in real life. Look out the window, it does not look like Wonderland or Oz.
A photographer needs an accurate representation on a device of his work so that the final product is not misrepresented.
tsekh501 said:
IPS is still LCD. IPS is just one of the better types of LCD panel, and hence your thread title is weird.
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Well, yea, I think most XDA readers know that IPS is LCD, but I just wanted to keep the title short.
I just added a link to a test image for those who want to test the quality of their different displays.
I was doing a side by side comparison against a friends iPad and my Xoom when playing a movie. They both look really good, but the main difference is the iPad being 4:3 looks really awkward when playing widescreen movies. The good thing about a "fragmented" OS is apps had to detect the screen size to work correctly, and now we have all these widescreen tablets of whatever resolution people like, while iOS is locked into 4:3 forever basically, or risk huge backwards compatibility problems as I'm sure 95% of iPad apps have 1024x768 hard coded in them.
Phylar said:
I was doing a side by side comparison against a friends iPad and my Xoom when playing a movie. They both look really good, but the main difference is the iPad being 4:3 looks really awkward when playing widescreen movies. The good thing about a "fragmented" OS is apps had to detect the screen size to work correctly, and now we have all these widescreen tablets of whatever resolution people like, while iOS is locked into 4:3 forever basically, or risk huge backwards compatibility problems as I'm sure 95% of iPad apps have 1024x768 hard coded in them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Resolution wouldn't be a problem for Apple. Since iOS devices are made only by Apple, Apple has complete control over what resolution their devices use. And given the volume that Apple ships (they sold 15 million of iPads in the first 9 month for god sake...), they probably can have a screen made to their specification (e.g. the super high pixel density screen of the iPhone 4).
It's the viewing angles that make IPS screens so much better.
Lay both an iPad and a Xoom flat side by side in portrait mode and look at them as you're laying down on a bed. You'll definitely notice a difference. The blues at the top of the Xoom screen of the tron-like Honeycomb wallpaper turn purple. The iPad colors largely look the same no matter what angle you're looking at it.
As a photographer, although i love android os but i still have to go with Ipad screen, the color look more accurate to me.
i went to Bestbuy and try out the xoom, the screen is pretty bad but better than my g-tablet.
I really hope that people can port honeycomb to ipad 2.
ianlti said:
As a photographer, although i love android os but i still have to go with Ipad screen, the color look more accurate to me.
i went to Bestbuy and try out the xoom, the screen is pretty bad but better than my g-tablet.
I really hope that people can port honeycomb to ipad 2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tested both as well at Best Buy. I wouldn't say that it's "really bad." It's not as good as IPS, but it's not bad by any means.
Before I got my Dell Ultrasharp U2410 monitors, I was using plain Dell LCD monitors. I now have a quad monitor setup, 2 normal Dells + 2 IPS Dells. The U2410's have the edge on color gamut, but other than that, quality is very close.
If Samsung was smart, they'd make a 1280x800 SAMOLED display and keep it to themselves or else charge a huge profit margin to their competitors.
Sometimes, I wonder how these product VP's get their jobs? It just seems like all their decisions are against common sense.
Neo3D said:
I tested both as well at Best Buy. I wouldn't say that it's "really bad." It's not as good as IPS, but it's not bad by any means.
Before I got my Dell Ultrasharp U2410 monitors, I was using plain Dell LCD monitors. I now have a quad monitor setup, 2 normal Dells + 2 IPS Dells. The U2410's have the edge on color gamut, but other than that, quality is very close.
If Samsung was smart, they'd make a 1280x800 SAMOLED display and keep it to themselves or else charge a huge profit margin to their competitors.
Sometimes, I wonder how these product VP's get their jobs? It just seems like all their decisions are against common sense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately Super AMOLED isn't available this big yet. The Galaxy Tab 7" has a pretty nice screen, and early hands on preview of the Galaxy Tab 10.1" say that the screen on it is just as nice. It's not surprising though, since Samsung is probably using their own panels and their panels are always nice. If you look take a look here:
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/lcdpanel/product/note.html
Samsung makes 3 sizes of tablet screens, 7", 10.1", and 9.7", which coincides with the almost confirmed rumor that they will reveal another 9.7" Honeycomb tablet at CTIA. If you want a 10.1" Honeycomb tablet with nice screen, wait for the Samsung 10.1" or 9.7" Galaxy Tab. (But the Galaxy Tab 10.1" has no USB port and SD card slot .... yes, Samsung somehow think it's a good idea to use a proprietary 30-pin connector)
our IT nerd from work lent me his iPad for direct comparison and I have to admit that the Xoom does not even get close to the viewing angles of the iPad. Due to the 16:10 form factor the Xoom also appears smaller. Still, I'm having so much fun with my Xoom that if you don't torture yourself with putting the iPad right next to it it works well!
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
tsekh501 said:
Unfortunately Super AMOLED isn't available this big yet. The Galaxy Tab 7" has a pretty nice screen, and early hands on preview of the Galaxy Tab 10.1" say that the screen on it is just as nice. It's not surprising though, since Samsung is probably using their own panels and their panels are always nice. If you look take a look here:
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/lcdpanel/product/note.html
Samsung makes 3 sizes of tablet screens, 7", 10.1", and 9.7", which coincides with the almost confirmed rumor that they will reveal another 9.7" Honeycomb tablet at CTIA. If you want a 10.1" Honeycomb tablet with nice screen, wait for the Samsung 10.1" or 9.7" Galaxy Tab. (But the Galaxy Tab 10.1" has no USB port and SD card slot .... yes, Samsung somehow think it's a good idea to use a proprietary 30-pin connector)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean 8.9 not 9.7.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App

Arrow Super Amoled Plus vs Super Clear LCD vs Retina display: Part 2

Ok, so there was a huge thread going on about the differences and about the samoled+ being over-saturated and such: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1016334&highlight=pentile&page=4
It has been closed down, for a reason. Egos where burning up, and with every argument more friendliness disappeared.
I think it all started with a picture of parrots, where you couldn't see the black on the feathers good enough or something. (damn its starting to sound really silly atm)
ANYWAY, I wanted to clear up the parrot issue, samsung uses something called DNIe+ to improve the rendering an imaging of pictures and video's. Since the shown pictures are quite old, it was using the demo version of the s2, which had (pretty much untested) DNIe+.
Try the picture on your own phone and you will see what I mean. Samsung did a good job fixing the (oversaturation blah blah blah) colouring. We can all be happy now with a nice vibrant screen. And if you cant handle it, get the I9003 which uses some cheaper tech
Peace
Heres a link explaining what it does for samsung tv's which is in fact quite similar..
http://www.techtipspro.com/2009/08/what-is-dnie-pro-in-samsung-tv.html
The problem with doing comparative studies of displays with camera is the fact that most people do full brightness tests.
SAMOLED and SAMOLED Plus both tend to have much higher brightness and contrast ratio than LCDs.
If you are using auto settings to shoot, your camera will adjust aperture and shutter which wont be suitable for either LCD(be it retina, SLCD SCLCD) or SAMOLED display. It will either make AMOLED looks too bright and washed out or it will make LCD too dark.
The best way to do this is to use your eyes to determine the appropriate brightness level on all 3 displays so that you are getting best possible result from them and shoot at ISO100 and smallest possible aperture setting that your camera can do manually and preferably 1/30 shutter and then compare pics. It will be highly subjective test, but it will be fair one.
SAMOLED and SAMOLED + both tend to look way over saturated indoors even to naked eye if kept at full brightness.
Any test using a camera should be done with a DSLR using manual (and constant settings), but even then it's hard to say if the problems you see come from the screen, the camera, or the screen on which you're looking at the pictures. So yeah, the only way to make your opinion is by comparing the screens side by side by yourself.
Also, it's often a matter of personal tastes : For example I want my TV and PC monitor to have very accurate colors, but I really don't mind if my phone has over saturated colors since I rarely use it to look at pictures or movies, and even when I do it's not in optimal conditions so I don't care, and I prefer to have vivid colors in the UIs.
Funkym0nkey said:
SAMOLED and SAMOLED Plus both tend to have much higher brightness and contrast ratio than LCDs.
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Click to collapse
I disagree : They have a much better contrast ratio (virtually infinite) because the blacks are truly black. But the brightness is on par with most LCDs and lower than the best LCD screens. You can see the figures in this article by anandtech : Super AMOLED screens are around 350-400 nits whereas iPhone 4 is at 571, chich is why it's better in the sunlight.
I still think I prefer Spuer AMOLED + though because I mainly use my phone indoors and it's amazing to have true blacks.
So which technology is the winner?
P/S: I heart that Samsung will make a super amoled plus screen with high resolution as something called "retina" by apple.
It will be included in Samsung galaxy S3. Can anyone confirm such rumours for me?
azulgranas said:
So which technology is the winner?
P/S: I heart that Samsung will make a super amoled plus screen with high resolution as something called "retina" by apple.
It will be included in Samsung galaxy S3. Can anyone confirm such rumours for me?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have a read.
http://www.oled-info.com/super-amoled-plus-resolution-further-details
I can more-or-less confirm this. I mean, just read. The technology is there, it just needs a new production line and product line "components".
Samsung also have the advantage here, because they have the biggest AMOLED production facilities and so they can produce these AMOLED screens, whereas it is too expensive for other companies to do the same.
The link says they don't know when they're going to be using it. WRONG! If you follow some links to more recent articles, on the similar topic, it says they plan to have these being produced by the end of the year - so there's a high chance, that this time next year, we're gonna see a 300PPI+ Super AMOLED screens.......................................................................or flexible ones. :S
Funkym0nkey said:
The problem with doing comparative studies of displays with camera is the fact that most people do full brightness tests.
SAMOLED and SAMOLED Plus both tend to have much higher brightness and contrast ratio than LCDs.
If you are using auto settings to shoot, your camera will adjust aperture and shutter which wont be suitable for either LCD(be it retina, SLCD SCLCD) or SAMOLED display. It will either make AMOLED looks too bright and washed out or it will make LCD too dark.
The best way to do this is to use your eyes to determine the appropriate brightness level on all 3 displays so that you are getting best possible result from them and shoot at ISO100 and smallest possible aperture setting that your camera can do manually and preferably 1/30 shutter and then compare pics. It will be highly subjective test, but it will be fair one.
SAMOLED and SAMOLED + both tend to look way over saturated indoors even to naked eye if kept at full brightness.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The best way is to actually run measurements of contrast, gamma and color saturation. I have run measurements on the SGSII display:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1124669
If there is someone in Frankfurt who has an iPhone 4 or a phone with SLCD, I am happy to measure them too (takes less than 1 hour per phone).
How to watch Live streaming on Samsung galaxy ?
Here is link may solve your problem
Watch Live stream on mobile...
Can't really compare them all as long as Sammy makes/or at least made money on those 3 screen techs, with the Super Amoled plus on the S2, Super clear lcd in gt-i9003 and the display in apple products (esp. the iphone, the oh so called "retina display") being supplied by Sammy (or companies which Sammy have investments).

Anybody NOT happy with the display?

To the Community:
I just yesterday picked this puppy up at BB and, quite honestly, am very disappointed in the display, specifically the hue. All the yellows are washed out -- WTF???!!
Resolution is awesome but the white background when browsing looks like I'm looking at it under old-style fluorescent lighting -- YUCK!
I've played with all the Settings > Display > Screen mode modes and there's barely a change when going from one to another.
Is this correctible? Is it a TouchWiz thing? Will a different ROM help?
(FWIW -- I'm upgrading from a Xoom running Eos ROMs and other than the resolution, it was gorgeous. The Xoom was a great device: heavy, granted, but the bezel width really did set the standard that tablet manufacturers seem to be migrating towards.)
PLEASE TELL ME THERE'S A SOLUTION!!! THE COLOR RENDITION IS SO UNPALATABLE I VERY WELL MIGHT RETURN IT AFTER LUSTING AFTER IT FOR MONTHS!
Thanks.
Sounds like a hardware problem. I don't see how Touchwiz (or any ROM) could be responsible for that. Better have it exchanged.
Sounds like you're using reading mode
Sent from my SM-P600 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Color accuracy is pretty decent on the Note 10.1’s display. As always I’m reporting color data using Samsung’s Movie mode, which remains the most accurate setting of those offered. Grayscale performance is excellent, but our GMB and saturations tests put the Note 10.1 on par with the original Nexus 7. It’s definitely a better calibrated display than any other Samsung Galaxy Note tablet we’ve reviewed. Not quite on par with the new Nexus 7, but getting very close.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7378/samsung-galaxy-note-101-2014-edition-review/3
My (AMOLED) N3 displaying the same yellow background as my N10.1-14...
My "whites"...
The screen on this amazing and nothing short of that.
You must have a bad tablet...
My screen is great.
I have minor light bleed on bottom edge but thats not bothersome and barely noticeable.
Never had any problems with color rendition. Not to the extent you said it sounds like. Its been pretty natural looking for me.
EDIT: Removed link, its posted two above this...
I dont know what these numbers mean but here is a comparison against a crapple ipad: http://www.phonearena.com/reviews/Samsung-Galaxy-Note-10.1-2014-vs-Apple-iPad-4_id3445
Don't get me wrong, I like the screen a lot. But it is not perfect. I think the pentile design shows when certain colors are next to each other (producing less than perfect transition from one color to another).
whatllitbenext said:
To the Community:
I just yesterday picked this puppy up at BB and, quite honestly, am very disappointed in the display, specifically the hue. All the yellows are washed out -- WTF???!!
Resolution is awesome but the white background when browsing looks like I'm looking at it under old-style fluorescent lighting -- YUCK!
I've played with all the Settings > Display > Screen mode modes and there's barely a change when going from one to another.
Is this correctible? Is it a TouchWiz thing? Will a different ROM help?
(FWIW -- I'm upgrading from a Xoom running Eos ROMs and other than the resolution, it was gorgeous. The Xoom was a great device: heavy, granted, but the bezel width really did set the standard that tablet manufacturers seem to be migrating towards.)
PLEASE TELL ME THERE'S A SOLUTION!!! THE COLOR RENDITION IS SO UNPALATABLE I VERY WELL MIGHT RETURN IT AFTER LUSTING AFTER IT FOR MONTHS!
Thanks.
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Was it exactly the same when you first turned it on or did it get the yellow cast after some use?
kkretch said:
Was it exactly the same when you first turned it on or did it get the yellow cast after some use?
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No, there's no yellow cast: rather, the yellow's are washed out and not at all vibrant. White backgrounds have a blue-ish gray-ish tone and the only analogy I can muster is that it's like the color temperature is "cool," as opposed to "warm." Canary yellows come out looking dull gold; skin tones are very off-putting and for a top-dollar device, it's really not pleasant.
Side-by-side with my GN2, the colors are much truer on my GN2, hands down.
@BarryH_GEG -- thanks for the useful post; I am using movie mode.
@bootx1 -- thank you, too, but I'm not using reading mode.
Here are some screenshots from today's XDA main page.
1st photo is from Galaxy Note 10.1 2014 ed., second is Galaxy Note 2; third is a side-by-side with the Galaxy Note 2 on the left (the dude's skin is a little reddish on the left but it's not bad -- the skin tone on the right is actually much worse).
WTF????
Thanks.
whatllitbenext said:
Thanks for the useful post; I am using movie mode.
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I leave both my N3 and N10.1-14 on Adapt Display. On the N3 it's the only way to achieve maximum brightness in bright conditions; like an additional 150 nits. I'm not sure if the N10.1-14's Adapt Display works the same way. I have to confess, while Movie Mode may be more accurate I've come to like overly saturated colors on my mobile devices.
whatllitbenext said:
No, there's no yellow cast: rather, the yellow's are washed out and not at all vibrant. White backgrounds have a blue-ish gray-ish tone and the only analogy I can muster is that it's like the color temperature is "cool," as opposed to "warm." Canary yellows come out looking dull gold; skin tones are very off-putting and for a top-dollar device, it's really not pleasant.
Side-by-side with my GN2, the colors are much truer on my GN2, hands down.
@BarryH_GEG -- thanks for the useful post; I am using movie mode.
@bootx1 -- thank you, too, but I'm not using reading mode.
Here are some screenshots from today's XDA main page.
1st photo is from Galaxy Note 10.1 2014 ed., second is Galaxy Note 2; third is a side-by-side with the Galaxy Note 2 on the left (the dude's skin is a little reddish on the left but it's not bad -- the skin tone on the right is actually much worse).
WTF????
Thanks.
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To me......... In your (photo 3) side by side photo's I think the device on the left is to red and has to much color saturation the tablet looks good to me in that photo....
There is at lease 2 places in the control panel of the P-600 to adjust color, have you seen them?
If you not happy with the way it looks and you can exchange it you should. If you don't you will always have this thought in the back of your mind.
.
as another user said, it sounds like reading mode is turned on make sure it's off. It probably unlikely that this is the problem though since the the only app that defaults with reading mode on is play books.
Thank you for your responses.
I'm not quite sure how to say this without sounding impolite but several of you seem not to have read my posts completely, so please allow me to start over.
My yellows are very washed out: what ought to be bright canary yellows are dull gold. For example: the yellow in the Chrome logo is what I define as "yellow." On the GM10.1, 2014 Ed. it appears gold and dull.
Skin tones are wan and blue-ish.
White web page areas are gray-blue-ish.
Overall color temperature is "cool."
Reading mode does warm things up a bit...but still, I can't get any combination of settings where yellows "pop".
Settings > Device > Display > Screen mode is set to "movie" and that barely affects the vibrancy of the yellows; in fact there is no real difference between all four of the options.
IN SUM: COLOR RENDITION SUCKS.
Take it back to Best Buy?
(I s'pose I just answered my question...)
Thanks in advance.
The subpixel arrangement creates a dot effect more seen in print when looking through a magnifying glass. While not overly distracting, I do notice it at times. My biggest complaint is the blueish hue shift in darker tones when putting the display at an angle. Is this a TN panel ? I've always had OLED and my Oppo Find 5 was the first smartphone I've owned that didn't have a OLED screen. Still, the find 5 screen was MUCH better than the note 10.1 2014. Especially the black levels are kinda disappointing. I think the screen is WAY overrated in reviews. I primarily use the note in darker indoor areas so I have no use for the extra brightness delivered by the white subpixel.
I still think it's a great device tough, and for the price there is nothing like it. I would like to see some CM and Omni builds for it though which retain the wacom S pen "drivers". I don't care for the samsung features, I just want to use Autodesk Sketchbook.
Overall, I'm really happy with my display. My one complaint is that viewing angles seem to be a little off.
jankko said:
Don't get me wrong, I like the screen a lot. But it is not perfect. I think the pentile design shows when certain colors are next to each other (producing less than perfect transition from one color to another).
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What I know is that this device comes with LCD display. Not amoled. So there.is not pentile design. Because it is not amoled. The color would not look as vivid as amoled, yellow will look like a bit washout because of the backlight compared to amoled
Sent from my SM-P605 using xda app-developers app
Check this link: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PenTile_matrix_family
As you can see, Note 10.1 2014 edition is pentile. You can also see this when looking at the screen. Transitions between some colors are a bit blurry.
When talking about display performance there's the objective and subjective. GSMArena, AnandTech, and NoteBookCheck DE all run an extensive battery of standardized tests on all the devices they review. All praise the N10.1-14's display; especially compared to previous Samsung LCD displays.
http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_note_101_2014-review-1003p2.php
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7378/samsung-galaxy-note-101-2014-edition-review/3
http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Samsung-Galaxy-Note-10-1-2014-Edition-Tablet.105624.0.html
Sorry folks, you can't argue with the objective.
As for the subjective, assuming those not digging the display don't have a h/w issue, to each their own. The N5's display objectively produces very accurate colors. Those I've seen look washed out and dull. OP's not happy with the coolness of his display. I personally detest warm displays. You can't argue the subjective because it's both personal and opinion.
BarryH_GEG said:
When talking about display performance there's the objective and subjective. GSMArena, AnandTech, and NoteBookCheck DE all run an extensive battery of standardized tests on all the devices they review. All praise the N10.1-14's display; especially compared to previous Samsung LCD displays.
http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_note_101_2014-review-1003p2.php
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7378/samsung-galaxy-note-101-2014-edition-review/3
http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Samsung-Galaxy-Note-10-1-2014-Edition-Tablet.105624.0.html
Sorry folks, you can't argue with the objective.
As for the subjective, assuming those not digging the display don't have a h/w issue, to each their own. The N5's display objectively produces very accurate colors. Those I've seen look washed out and dull. OP's not happy with the coolness of his display. I personally detest warm displays. You can't argue the subjective because it's both personal and opinion.
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Thanks for that useful post -- the gsmarena and anandtech links are especially informative.
And my fears were confirmed: the display is just kind of average...objectively excellent, but comparatively average.
whatllitbenext said:
Thanks for that useful post -- the gsmarena and anandtech links are especially informative.
And my fears were confirmed: the display is just kind of average...objectively excellent, but comparatively average.
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Think average is a silly comment. I prefer the display to the ipad air. Sometimes wish the whites were slightly better. But I would like to see anyone who has a better screen on an Android 10 inch tablet
Sent from my SM-P600 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Galaxy Tab Pro 12.2

Thinking about buying one.
Why?
1) Getting blind in my old age, well not blind but I need reading glasses
2) Bigger screen should be more natural with magazines
3) Has Android 4.4 (now I know I can root install custom ROMs etc... but I also had bad luck doing this with tablets)
Two questions,
It is only 2 inches bigger does that two inches make it much harder to travel with?
It runs the latest Android, does it run better?
It is expensive and I which when I bought my Note 10.1 (2014) .... what 3 months ago I knew this was coming.
has crossed my mind as well, I do a lot of reading/surfing/viewing and I don't really take it out much
saw one in a shop ...not exactly cheap not sure worth the extra coin being asked
spacecat said:
has crossed my mind as well, I do a lot of reading/surfing/viewing and I don't really take it out much
saw one in a shop ...not exactly cheap not sure worth the extra coin being asked
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Click to collapse
Personal preference of course. Some things to consider.
It's huge and comparatively heavy.
The N10.1-14 is getting 4.4 and M-UX; it's already listed as a feature on Samsung's commerce sites. It won't get the Pro features but you can download the most meaningful, Hancom Office, in the app sub-forum here. There was some question about a modified version of the Tab/Note|Pro s/w because we have a menu button and those devices have replaced it with a task button. N12 owners have reported that long-pressing the task button provides the menu function we have which means it's one set of s/w with different button function mapping. Other than the remainder of missing Pro features the only two other unique features to the N12 are four multiview windows (vs. our two) and an expanded keyboard with FN, ALT, CTRL keys.
The N12 has an inferior display because the same pixel count that's on the N10.1-14 is stretched out over a larger area. The N12 has a gross PPI of 247 compared to 299 on the N10.1-14. Both use a RGBW PenTile display which means the net RGB pixel count is 227 and the N10.1-14's is at 274. The iPad Air is 264. A couple of reviewers have mentioned seeing a difference between the Tab|Pro 8.4/10.1 and N10.1-14's displays when compared to the N12.
It's got a bigger battery and will outlast the N10.1-14. But the Exynos N10.1-14's take forever to charge so increase that even more for the N12.
It's got USB 3.0 but it does nothing to improve charging time and increases data transfer rates on Windows (only) PCs that are USB 3.0 equipped.
So in the end, especially after the N10.1-14 gets its updates, there's not a lot of difference between the two h/w and s/w wise with the biggest exception being a fairly low (for a 1080P display) net RGB pixel count of 227 on the N12. For reference the N2's 720P display had a net PPI of 267.
Happy deciding.
Where is the downloads of the hanscom?
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
AstroDigital said:
Thinking about buying one.
Why?
1) Getting blind in my old age, well not blind but I need reading glasses
2) Bigger screen should be more natural with magazines
3) Has Android 4.4 (now I know I can root install custom ROMs etc... but I also had bad luck doing this with tablets)
Two questions,
It is only 2 inches bigger does that two inches make it much harder to travel with?
It runs the latest Android, does it run better?
It is expensive and I which when I bought my Note 10.1 (2014) .... what 3 months ago I knew this was coming.
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Click to collapse
It's really nice. I don't think the extra size makes it harder to travel with. It is noticeably larger, and you see it the most when holding it with one hand while tapping and navigating with the other. Because it is larger and heavier, there's a lopsided weight to it to where it feels like it's trying to twist out of your hand. Nothing overly dramatic, but you do notice it every time. Unlike the Note 10.1 where your hand covers a larger part of the device and so there is less / none of that feeling. Any type of case etc would most likely mitigate the issue. Other than that the screen is beautiful, sure it may be lower density but nothing I ever noticed after using the Note 12.2. You'll really appreciate the larger nature of text and graphics however, and that is priceless.
BarryH_GEG said:
[*]The N12 has an inferior display because the same pixel count that's on the N10.1-14 is stretched out over a larger area. The N12 has a gross PPI of 247 compared to 299 on the N10.1-14. Both use a RGBW PenTile display which means the net RGB pixel count is 227 and the N10.1-14's is at 274. The iPad Air is 264. A couple of reviewers have mentioned seeing a difference between the Tab|Pro 8.4/10.1 and N10.1-14's displays when compared to the N12.
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Click to collapse
May I ask how did you get the net PPI figure?
Note 10.1 has an RGBW matrix made of ~4 Mpixels (2560x1600).
This equals to the same subpixel count as a ~2.7 Mpixel RGB panel (PenTile only have 2 subpixels per pixel compared to RGB's full 3 subpixels)
Which means that our Note's effective resolution is 1306x2090.
So the hypotenuse of the panel (via the pythahorean theorem) equals to the equivalent of 2464 RGB pixels
Which finally means that we have an effective 244 PPI (2464.5/10.1)
Which is lower than Ipad's but higher than other 10.1 inch android's. iPad's screen also consumes far less battery has (arguably) better colours and most importantly does not suffer from the grayish blacks we suffer. In short if you want the best "large" panel in the market you have to go to Apple, for everything else our note is the best deal.
Stevethegreat said:
So the hypotenuse of the panel (via the pythahorean theorem).
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Seriously?
The effective PPI of the N10.1-14's display is 299 PPI. It's achieved somewhat by slight of hand by using combinations of sub-pixels to create the illusion of more. That's the very definition of PenTile whose impact varies greatly based on implementation. My simple formula is essentially just factoring in the loss of 25% of the RGB sub-pixels to the added white ones and distributing the lost pixels across each of red, green, and blue. .
From WiKi...
PenTile RGBW technology, used in LCD, adds an extra subpixel to the traditional red, green and blue subpixels that is a clear area without color filtering material and with the only purpose of letting backlight come through, hence W for white. This makes it possible to produce a brighter image compared to an RGB-matrix while using the same amount of power, or produce an equally bright image while using less power.
The PenTile RGBW layout uses each red, green, blue and white subpixel to present high-resolution luminance information to the human eyes' red-sensing and green-sensing cone cells, while using the combined effect of all the color subpixels to present lower-resolution chroma (color) information to all three cone cell types. Combined, this optimizes the match of display technology to the biological mechanisms of human vision.[13] The layout uses one third fewer subpixels for the same resolution as the RGB stripe (RGB-RGB) layout, in spite of having four color primaries instead of the conventional three, using subpixel rendering combined with metamer rendering. Metamer rendering optimizes the energy distribution between the white subpixel and the combined red, green, and blue subpixels: W <> RGB, to improve image sharpness.
The display driver chip has an RGB to RGBW color vector space converter and gamut mapping algorithm, followed by metamer and subpixel rendering algorithms. In order to maintain saturated color quality, to avoid simultaneous contrast error between saturated colors and peak white brightness, while simultaneously reducing backlight power requirements, the display backlight brightness is under control of the PenTile driver engine. When the image is mostly desaturated colors, those near white or grey, the backlight brightness is significantly reduced, often to less than 50% peak, while the LCD levels are increased to compensate. When the image has very bright saturated colors, the backlight brightness is maintained at higher levels. The PenTile RGBW also has an optional high brightness mode that doubles the brightness of the desaturated color image areas, such as black&white text, for improved outdoor view-ability.​RGBW is funky in that when displaying certain fully saturated colors (yellow and green have been given as examples) on a white background there's some granularity issues on hard graphics edges.
Also from WiKi...
However, for the same resolution and size the PenTile screen can appear grainy, pixelated, speckled, with blurred text on some saturated colors and backgrounds when compared to RGB stripe color. This effect is understood to be caused by the restriction of the number of subpixels that may participate in the image reconstruction when the color is fully saturated. In the RGBW case, this is caused as the W subpixel will not be available in order to maintain the saturated color. For all other cases, text and especially full color images are fully reconstructed.​The impact of PenTile depends on PPI and even more so on visual acuity - the point at which the viewer's vision intersects one arcminute. For people with 20/20 vision holding a device the typical 10-12" away you can't see that the N10.1-14's display is PenTile; at least from a clarity perspective. Some people here with 20/10 vision have seen the RGBW saturation issue. I, with 20/20 vision, haven't.
Here's an interesting article talking about PPI and its impact on various content...
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/10/1080p-on-a-smartphone-screencan-it-possibly-matter/
Here's an interesting article talking about visual acuity in the context of Apple naming their display "retina"...
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/4
The pixel race explored...
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7743/the-pixel-density-race-and-its-technical-merits
BarryH_GEG said:
Seriously?
The effective PPI of the N10.1-14's display is 299 PPI. It's achieved somewhat by slight of hand by using combinations of sub-pixels to create the illusion of more. That's the very definition of PenTile whose impact varies greatly based on implementation. My simple formula is essentially just factoring in the loss of 25% of the RGB sub-pixels to the added white ones and distributing the lost pixels across each of red, green, and blue. .
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Click to collapse
I honestly don't get your point, a rectangle is made of two triangles whose hypotenuse is the diagonal of said rectangle, which is why one can use the pythagorean theorem to find the diagonal's pixel count.
As for the rest I calculated what's the effective PPI of our device is in RGB terms, again I don't see where I'm wrong. I called it effective because most screens use an RGB panel. A 1306x2090 panel produces exactly the same sub-pixel count as our note. Now due to subpixels' placing one may see a different picture altogether, but holding our note side by side with an Ipad it is more pixilated, which shows to me that the 299 number is literally meaningless since we are talking about a different screen tech...
Stevethegreat said:
I honestly don't get your point, a rectangle is made of two triangles whose hypotenuse is the diagonal of said rectangle, which is why one can use the pythagorean theorem to find the diagonal's pixel count.
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Yeah I would have done it the same way Stevethegreat did. But I'm not familiar with how they create the illusion of more subpixels.
I am debating which one to get- the note 10.1 2014 or the tab pro 12.2. Does the screen size make it a must have?
Sent from my LG-VS980 using xda app-developers app
I wanted to get the Note Pro 12.2 until I saw the price (am in Bangkok):
29,900 baht (~$930). I love my Note 10.1 2014.
Stevethegreat said:
May I ask how did you get the net PPI figure?
Note 10.1 has an RGBW matrix made of ~4 Mpixels (2560x1600).
This equals to the same subpixel count as a ~2.7 Mpixel RGB panel (PenTile only have 2 subpixels per pixel compared to RGB's full 3 subpixels)
Which means that our Note's effective resolution is 1306x2090.
So the hypotenuse of the panel (via the pythahorean theorem) equals to the equivalent of 2464 RGB pixels
Which finally means that we have an effective 244 PPI (2464.5/10.1)
Which is lower than Ipad's but higher than other 10.1 inch android's. iPad's screen also consumes far less battery has (arguably) better colours and most importantly does not suffer from the grayish blacks we suffer. In short if you want the best "large" panel in the market you have to go to Apple, for everything else our note is the best deal.
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Stevethegreat said:
I honestly don't get your point, a rectangle is made of two triangles whose hypotenuse is the diagonal of said rectangle, which is why one can use the pythagorean theorem to find the diagonal's pixel count.
As for the rest I calculated what's the effective PPI of our device is in RGB terms, again I don't see where I'm wrong. I called it effective because most screens use an RGB panel. A 1306x2090 panel produces exactly the same sub-pixel count as our note. Now due to subpixels' placing one may see a different picture altogether, but holding our note side by side with an Ipad it is more pixilated, which shows to me that the 299 number is literally meaningless since we are talking about a different screen tech...
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Click to collapse
You guys do know that a rgbw pentile display doesnt render images in full pixels like a rgb panel right? Thus making a comparison of the two technologies a pissing contest at best. A rgbw panel renders images at the subpixel level using any arrangement of the subpixels to achieve the desired image (in a way more natural and easier on the human eye) whereas a rgb renders images using the entire pixel (all 3 subpixels as a solid unit) it takes a rgbw display 1/3 less subpixels to display the same resolution image with no loss of image quality. Yes if you jam your face into the thing you will notice the pixels slightly sooner than a rgb. All that means is you look less like an idiot while pixel peeping with the rgbw. On text you will never notice a difference. One of the biggest electronics companies of all time keeps using pentile panels and keeps getting great screen reviews in its products. Shut the stupid pentile assault down. I cant even recall a reviewer knocking any of these screens. At normal viewing distance they are marvelous. If you dont use it at a normal distance congratulations your the minority that uses his tablet pressed to his face. Oh the and the "slight" loss of sharpness on the display in comparison to the note 2014 is made up for by a larger screen used FARTHER AWAY meaning that with normal vision no discernable difference. And lastly in what universe have you compared the note 10.1 to the ipad air and found the note more pixelated? Even factoring the lost pixel count (BarryH_GEG is right) the note is superior to the ipad. The rgbw panel doesnt need the extra pixels because it looks just as good without them. And if it looks just as good whats your problem?
Op the 12.2 offers alot more screen real estate. It is a bit heavier but unless you have lost tge ability to wipe yourself you will easily be able to carry it around. My 90 year old grandmother still carries an ipad 3 (same weight). The screen is very efficient and this tablet is consistently beating the ipad air in battery tests. It will take awhile to charge if you allow it to drain all the way. Which you shouldn't do. Charge it when not in use and you will be fine. 4.4 is smoother and the pro features are nice. I would also point out that the charging port is on the side making use while charging much easier. If you are intrigued by its size try it out. Worst case you return it.
Sorry guys for ranting but I keep seeing the same false information over and over again. Your splitting hairs between ridiculously good and slightly more ridiculously good and smaller.......just like that stupid 4:3 is better for reading thing. (IT IS NOT IN ANY WAY BETTER)
Sent from my SCH-I605 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
---------- Post added at 02:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:14 AM ----------
Oh please notice the only time you can tell the difference is text against a fully saturated background.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
---------- Post added at 02:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:18 AM ----------
Also from Nouvoyance (a company owned by samsung doing their r&d for rgbw pentile displays) the are pursuing pentile because it relies on technology that tskes advantage of the human eyes natural mechanisms. Samsung obviously believes that pentile is the way of the future. they seem to be selling the idea very well.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
@ Duly.noted: OK I get you dislike of ipad and it is not without merit but I was comparing the sub pixel count of our device with that of ipad's and unlike what BarryH_GEG said my calculations are not wrong, you said it yourself we have 1/3rd less subpixels. Now I often keep my tablet at a distance of 8-10 inches close to my eyes. Granted I keep it closer than most people, and also -granted- text looks better but everything else *doesn't* and *that's* my point, technically we have a worse screen but to most people it is just fine. It is not splitting hairs though, I would much prefer ipad's panel but then I would lose android's flexibility and the spen
As an experiment put a red text in a yellow background and *tell* me that it looks the same to you (same clarity) as in an ipad, because it sure as hell doesn't to me.
Anyway, this thread is about Note 12.2, so imagine it as a thought experiment in an even larger more spread out fashion. Again to many people this is splitting hairs but I think it is more important to let more people learn of the impact of pentile technology than simply call the panel a 2560 x1600 panel and be done with it. I'm surely not as happy to learn about it *after* I bought the tablet, but you're right it may not be that big of a deal, the biggest deal by far (for me) was/is the "milky" blacks and the atrocious gamma raise when looked at from different angles, both not expected from a panel of this calibre. I sure hope that note 12.2 have/had this issue fixed, because especially in such a large panel it would make quite an impact to its picture quality. Much more than the pentile arrangement would (even in principle) be able to make.
Duly.noted said:
Sorry guys for ranting but I keep seeing the same false information over and over again. Your splitting hairs between ridiculously good and slightly more ridiculously good and smaller.......just like that stupid 4:3 is better for reading thing. (IT IS NOT IN ANY WAY BETTER)
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Yes you are ranting, fine if you want to do that, but your rant has almost nothing to do with the post you quoted. It it not about false information, whether the screen was good enough, nor 4:3 ratio. It is about methodology for calculating PPI. That may be interesting for someone comparing a Tab Pro 12.2, Note 10.1 2014, or an ipad.
ddzado said:
I am debating which one to get- the note 10.1 2014 or the tab pro 12.2. Does the screen size make it a must have?
Sent from my LG-VS980 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's my input. I had the Note 12.2 for about a week. I returned it without hesitation for the Note 10.1 (14). Why?
1. It's heavier. I came from an original Tab 10.1 and one would think that 4 ounces more isn't a big deal. That's what I kept telling myself. Yet it is. My hand got tired holding it very quickly where it never got tired holding the 10.1.
2. It's larger. Well, you say, that's the point isn't it? Yeah, but there's an odd thing about it being larger, it's harder to hold it. If you remember your physics class then you'll understand that the center of gravity for the 12.2 moves further from the hand than the 10.1. Throw in 4 ounces more weight and the torque applied to the hand makes it uncomfortable to hold in one hand.
3. The screen is just bigger, not better. The apps don't use the real estate better. They're just larger. It's like putting larger buttons on a pushbutton phone. You don't get more buttons, you just get larger ones. It's the same with your TV. A 50" screen has the exact same number of pixels and resolution as a 40" screen, just larger. Now, for us folks getting older one would think that this would be a good thing. It wasn't. It just didn't feel right.
4. Magazine UX. It was fun. For about 30 minutes. Because it was so limited I found it to be boring after a short period of time. I installed Apex.
5. When I combined it with a Zagg hard keyboard case it did a fine job as a desktop device. The keyboard was full sized and easy to use. Felt great. But, then I found myself pulling out my 15.6" laptop for those times instead. After all, if 12.2 is good on the desktop 15.6 is better.
6. One thing that I really liked on the larger screen was the ability to have up to 4 apps running at once. Mult-apps feels cramped on the 10.1" screen and it felt much better on the 12.2" screen.
My comments here are very personal and may only apply to me. They're intended to be a "heads up." Here's what I'd recommend to anyone thinking about getting a 12.2" tablet. Buy it at Best Buy or any other brick and mortar store that permits easy returns. Try it out, you'll know in a few days if it's for you. If you don't like it just return it. No harm done. (Don't do this at Fry's, they charge a 15% restocking fee.)
---------- Post added at 07:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:27 AM ----------
Side note on PPI:
PPI doesn't matter. Look at the screen. Run the apps you normally use. Do you like what you see? Yes? That's all that matters. Period.
TabGuy said:
Here's my input. I had the Note 12.2 for about a week. I returned it without hesitation for the Note 10.1 (14). Why?
1. It's heavier. I came from an original Tab 10.1 and one would think that 4 ounces more isn't a big deal. That's what I kept telling myself. Yet it is. My hand got tired holding it very quickly where it never got tired holding the 10.1.
2. It's larger. Well, you say, that's the point isn't it? Yeah, but there's an odd thing about it being larger, it's harder to hold it. If you remember your physics class then you'll understand that the center of gravity for the 12.2 moves further from the hand than the 10.1. Throw in 4 ounces more weight and the torque applied to the hand makes it uncomfortable to hold in one hand.
3. The screen is just bigger, not better. The apps don't use the real estate better. They're just larger. It's like putting larger buttons on a pushbutton phone. You don't get more buttons, you just get larger ones. It's the same with your TV. A 50" screen has the exact same number of pixels and resolution as a 40" screen, just larger. Now, for us folks getting older one would think that this would be a good thing. It wasn't. It just didn't feel right.
4. Magazine UX. It was fun. For about 30 minutes. Because it was so limited I found it to be boring after a short period of time. I installed Apex.
5. When I combined it with a Zagg hard keyboard case it did a fine job as a desktop device. The keyboard was full sized and easy to use. Felt great. But, then I found myself pulling out my 15.6" laptop for those times instead. After all, if 12.2 is good on the desktop 15.6 is better.
6. One thing that I really liked on the larger screen was the ability to have up to 4 apps running at once. Mult-apps feels cramped on the 10.1" screen and it felt much better on the 12.2" screen.
My comments here are very personal and may only apply to me. They're intended to be a "heads up." Here's what I'd recommend to anyone thinking about getting a 12.2" tablet. Buy it at Best Buy or any other brick and mortar store that permits easy returns. Try it out, you'll know in a few days if it's for you. If you don't like it just return it. No harm done. (Don't do this at Fry's, they charge a 15% restocking fee.)
---------- Post added at 07:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:27 AM ----------
Side note on PPI:
PPI doesn't matter. Look at the screen. Run the apps you normally use. Do you like what you see? Yes? That's all that matters. Period.
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So I'm hoping to try all this out and see if it bothers me. I've never had a tablet before, but I've used the tablets of others.
I am hoping that I can root the thing and change a couple of the things you were mentioning. For example, I'm on a G2 right now, having the same issues with a bigger screen/apps are just bigger. I changed my LCD density (effectively the screen resolution) and now have a much better use of the real estate on the screen.
Another big test would be if the S-Pen works well on the Tab Pro (yes that's right Tab Pro). You would instantly save $100 minus the difference for buying a stylus. I don't care for the S-Pen software, just the handwriting capability.
I am also nervous about all the bloatware/UX that comes with it... I'm a guy that buys a phone and has it rooted/ROM'd before I go to bed. We'll see how long I last....
TabGuy said:
[/COLOR]Side note on PPI:
PPI doesn't matter. Look at the screen. Run the apps you normally use. Do you like what you see? Yes? That's all that matters. Period.
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There are many of us who like to read , for many hours. Be it literature, articles, long emails. While a screen may look beautiful at first glance after long hours it can and will become tiresome if the PPI is below some threshold. As a reader PPI is the first I look for when buying a new tablet. Fortunately note's pentile handles text beautifully so I suspect it would not be a problem for note 12.2 either
ddzado said:
Another big test would be if the S-Pen works well on the Tab Pro (yes that's right Tab Pro). You would instantly save $100 minus the difference for buying a stylus. I don't care for the S-Pen software, just the handwriting capability.
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It won't work. The tab pro doesn't have an active digitizer. It wouldn't even work as a capacitive stylus. You'd just get nothing.
mustbepbs said:
It won't work. The tab pro doesn't have an active digitizer. It wouldn't even work as a capacitive stylus. You'd just get nothing.
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Well that blows. I mean.. you can draw with your finger... so why wouldn't any stylus work?
ddzado said:
Well that blows. I mean.. you can draw with your finger... so why wouldn't any stylus work?
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A capacitive stylus is made with a material that effects the electrical current of the touchscreen causing it to register as a touch in the same way a finger does. Pieces of metal will register as well. The spen is a active stylus. The tip is a nonconductive rubber or plastic tip and it affects the touchscreen using a magnetic field detected by the digitizer layer. This allows much greater accuracy and by increasing the magnetic force with a button sensitive to pressure allows pressure sensing. However, it would not function on any device that did not have either a resistive touchscreen or digitizer layer.
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AMOLED screens and Xperia devices

The lack of AMOLED is currently the only reason I haven't switched to a Sony device yet, so I just wanted a thread to gauge interest in having AMOLED screens on future devices.
I know the pros and cons of both AMOLED and LCD/IPS so there's not much point discussing those unless you really want to.
Don't necessarily care for it. More interested in a 5.5 or 5.7 inch screen.
Amoled can be better for the battery but I dislike the screen burn that occurs after a year or so. (Can vary based on how much phone is used.)
Sent from my SM-G900P
AMOLED looks real nice but between burn in and extra battery drain on light colors, I'll stick with LCD.
Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk
I much prefer IPS over AMOLED. AMOLED is overly saturated and typically in a pentile subpixel arragement leading to an inferior amount of subpixels.
IPS is one of the reasons I prefer Sony devices.
I can still see the pixellation in AMOLED screens, even in the Galaxy S5. Most people don't notice it, but I do - and because I know it's there, it will always bother me. AMOLED has poor color reproduction, and the screen has the potential to burn in (review units at any big box store are almost invariably burned in, even after only two weeks of constantly being on).
IPS LCD is the only thing I will consider.
IPS+ LCD is the best vivid display with true-to-life colours, especially with x-reality and Triluminos display.
Gorgenapper said:
at any big box store are almost invariably burned in, even after only two weeks of constantly being on).
IPS LCD is the only thing I will consider.
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npaladin2000 said:
AMOLED looks real nice but between burn in and extra battery drain on light colors, I'll stick with LCD.
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Burn in has stopped being a problem a long time ago. I have a Note 2, no burn in issues, nor on my Note 1 before, or Galaxy S2 or Galaxy S before that.
You should have the screen auto switch-off after 10 minutes (or less) anyway, it will just drain the battery. The reason you see demo models getting burn in is because they never switch the screen off. I thought that was obvious, but I guess not..
wrsg said:
Burn in has stopped being a problem a long time ago. I have a Note 2, no burn in issues, nor on my Note 1 before, or Galaxy S2 or Galaxy S before that.
You should have the screen auto switch-off after 10 minutes (or less) anyway, it will just drain the battery. The reason you see demo models getting burn in is because they never switch the screen off. I thought that was obvious, but I guess not..
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Right, but even if you don't consider burn-in, AMOLED definitely has it's tradeoffs. LG, Sony, Apple, HTC all use IPS LCD. Off the top of my head Samsung and Motorola are the only companies using AMOLED in high end devices, definitely the minority, not the majority.
Also keep in mind that the Note 2 does not use the typical pentile matrix that most AMOLED panels use
se1000 said:
Right, but even if you don't consider burn-in, AMOLED definitely has it's tradeoffs. LG, Sony, Apple, HTC all use IPS LCD. Off the top of my head Samsung and Motorola are the only companies using AMOLED in high end devices, definitely the minority, not the majority.
Also keep in mind that the Note 2 does not use the typical pentile matrix that most AMOLED panels use
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Just because it's the minority doesn't make it inherently bad. It's less used because it's more expensive, which is why Samsung and Motorola devices are usually more expensive than the others.
It has its tradeoffs but it also has benefits, less battery draw, more comfortable on the eyes, better contrast (imo). A lot of it is subjective, but I just want to raise awareness of the benefits and hopefully get more people asking the companies for AMOLED.
The day Sony introduce AMOLED, that's the day I will for sure stop supporting them.
Less battery draw is situational. Only when you're dealing with dark apps will there be less battery draw, since black pixels draw no power on AMOLED. Looking at Facebook or websites or other things with a lot of bright or white backgrounds requires more pixels to be lit up, thereby consuming more power.
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npaladin2000 said:
Less battery draw is situational. Only when you're dealing with dark apps will there be less battery draw, since black pixels draw no power on AMOLED. Looking at Facebook or websites or other things with a lot of bright or white backgrounds requires more pixels to be lit up, thereby consuming more power.
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Untrue
http://www.electronicsnews.com.au/news/oleds-ready-for-the-mainstream
wrsg said:
Untrue
http://www.electronicsnews.com.au/news/oleds-ready-for-the-mainstream
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That article was from TWO THOUSAND AND NINE!!!!!! A lot has changed for both technologies. Overall, I would say AMOLED and LCD are pretty close, with the edge actually going to LCD these days. Just lookup different devices with the same specs and look at screen on time figure. For example, the G2 had better screen on time figures than the S4 by a long shot (and I believe the S5 as well)
I'm in no way saying that AMOLED is bad by any means, I'm just saying that it isn't a superior technology either.
Personally as long as a screen has +400ppi it's really going to be sharp from any reasonable viewing distance. IPS has made strides in contrast ratio and color accuracy (gamut). AMOLED has improved in green/blue cast, and the ppi increases have negated the pentile issue.
In the end, a good screen is a good screen.
wrsg said:
Untrue
http://www.electronicsnews.com.au/news/oleds-ready-for-the-mainstream
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You should understand that battery drain doesn't only comprise of the display itself. You must take other things into considerations. (wakelock, background apps, etc.) And if you really talk about display wise, it's true that AMOLED display allows better saturation in terms of colours and also better contrast ratio due to the no-black-pixel lighting up, but on light surfaces it still suffers on battery drain. You want a phone without such issues? Just go back to Nokia 3310 then
And if AMOLED screen is as expensive as an IPS+ LCD screen, I suggest you go check with factories and see how much it's actually made. From my source, they would either practically be the same price, or IPS+ screen tends to be slightly more expensive.
Display is always personal preferences. I'd rather an IPS+ screen due to the natural colors that it produce and it really stands out on the Z2/Z3 as I had hands-on on both of them. And if you are going to discuss this, why not head towards the General Android section? There will be a hell lot of people which will be throwing a lot of facts out making you understand better. No point making this discussion here. Not like Sony will ever go for AMOLED display. They'd rather the real colors then over-saturated and unnatural colors.
I don't want a phone with AMOLED, because the color representation isn't accurate as IPS.
What I would like to see is a phone with LCD IPS display lightened by RGB LED, most LCD panels use WLED (white LED).
RGB LED increase the color representation and color contrast.
When you see small tracks on a solid color picture (from light blue to dark blue for example) it's a problem that RGB LED don't suffer from.
Sent from my Xperia Z2 using Tapatalk
I wouldn't say IPS is a deal breaker to me but, oh man, Z3 would be catching my attention much more with a Amoled display. I was using a Galaxy s4 and now I'm on moto g (gave the s4 to my wife) and I really miss the dark blacks. The blacks on ips is just a light gray.
As the Note4 Display has just been tested as the best mobile display currently available, there is no reasonable argument not to opt for AMOLED in the future - except availability and price.
This includes brightness, color accuracy AND brightness as well as efficiency!
Based on our extensive Lab tests and measurements, the Galaxy Note 4 is the Best performing Smartphone display that we have ever tested. It matches or breaks new records in Smartphone display performance for: Highest Absolute Color Accuracy, Highest Screen Resolution, Infinite Contrast Ratio, Highest Peak Brightness, Highest Contrast Rating in Ambient Light, and the smallest Brightness Variation with Viewing Angle. Its Color Management capability provides multiple Color Gamuts – a major advantage that is not currently provided by any of the other leading Smartphones
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http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_Note4_ShootOut_1.htm
Bäcker said:
As the Note4 Display has just been tested as the best mobile display currently available, there is no reasonable argument not to opt for AMOLED in the future - except availability and price.
This includes brightness, color accuracy AND brightness as well as efficiency!
http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_Note4_ShootOut_1.htm
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Indeed, people seem to be either grossly misinformed or because X brand uses LCD instead of OLED, they've either become a fanboy of the former or opponent of the latter. Samsung's newer AMOLEDs are hands down the best mobile displays available. There isn't even any competition, to claim otherwise is silly.
They offer far better blacks, contrast ratio (which is vital on a mobile - daylight and outdoors), much wider colour gamut (and accuracy) than any *mobile* IPS panel and lower power draw. Aside from this, pixel responsiveness is effectively instant; for motion, games and overall fluidity and responsiveness they are MASSIVELY better than IPS .. this is the reason the Samsung phones seem so smooth (not because they're faster or have some kind of software or driver based special sauce). Also, because the panel is less brittle, it's less likely to suffer catastrophic damage or the glass/plastic cover smash or crack. They also use fewer toxic substances than LCDs.
As far as I'm concerned, the only other game in town is Sharp's IZGO technology. This because it can potentially eliminate bezels much more easily than competing display tech (see latest Sharp phones), and it reduces IPS-like panels' power draw.
The Quantom Dot filters in Amazon's Kindle tablet do improve colours and blacks a little, but it's really expensive at the moment, and is perhaps a better partner for VA panels, which have much deeper blacks and better contrast than IPS (Sony uses QD filters in their Triluminos VA panel TVs). Also they use Cadmium Selenide, and Cadmium is a very nasty substance.
Emissive Quantum Dot (once they have eliminated Cadmium) is perhaps the holy grail, in a few years time, since it should have none of the longevity issues of OLEDs, and all of the low power, (potentially) low cost, high gamut, high responsiveness benefits.
Anyway, for now I'll be happy with my Z3 Compact that'll be arriving early next week, and use it to complement my Jolla, hopefully with a Sailfish port in due time .... but a Samsung AMOLED screen on a Z4 or 5 Compact would only make it more desirable, in my view.
mudnightoil said:
this is the reason the Samsung phones seem so smooth
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Frankly that is a laughable statement, as Samsung Android devices are anything but smooth given their TouchWIZ-based bloat.
mudnightoil said:
The Quantom Dot filters in Amazon's Kindle tablet do improve colours and blacks a little, but it's really expensive at the moment, and is perhaps a better partner for VA panels, which have much deeper blacks and better contrast than IPS (Sony uses QD filters in their Triluminos VA panel TVs).
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The Xperia Z3 is supposed to be using Triluminous technology that includes quantum dots. That will probably have to be confirmed once the phones are released, since in the past there have been Triluminous phones without incorporating quantum dots, but the possibility exists.
While there are some things I like about AMOLED, unless you have content optimized for it, it's very battery inefficient. And the most popular smartphone applications are generally things like Facebook, web browsing, and a few other things that still don't offer a "dark" mode optimized for AMOLED, that minimizes the number of lit background pixels. White backgrounds are not a friend of AMOLED. .

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