Database Users

Charging takes forever

I received my Epic yesterday, and so today I'm doing my first full charge. I've had it plugged in for almost three hours now, and I'm only at 50%. Is anyone else experiencing this?

are you charging it on the wall or on a pc? and are u using it alot while charging?

It's connected to my PC. And I'm not using it at all.

hockeymike said:
It's connected to my PC. And I'm not using it at all.
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most USB are low power. You should use the wall charger the first time.

usb is slated to run at 500mAh, doesnt mean it cant go over it.. but thats what most of them do. ac charges at least 1000mAh..

Well that would explain it. Thanks!

shabbypenguin said:
usb is slated to run at 500mAh, doesnt mean it cant go over it.. but thats what most of them do. ac charges at least 1000mAh..
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ROFL, don't mean to be rude, but try reading the adaptor it comes with, the wall adapter is 700mah, lower than what came with my 3 year old blackberry, I'm using the wifes old cube from her iphone now, thats a full 1 amp.

robl45 said:
ROFL, don't mean to be rude, but try reading the adaptor it comes with, the wall adapter is 700mah, lower than what came with my 3 year old blackberry, I'm using the wifes old cube from her iphone now, thats a full 1 amp.
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Hm.. No wonder I noticed it took forever on the wall charger also.

Is there any advantage to having a lower power charger? If I could find a micro usb charger that provided 1 amp, would that detrimentally affect my device?

hockeymike said:
Is there any advantage to having a lower power charger? If I could find a micro usb charger that provided 1 amp, would that detrimentally affect my device?
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no it shouldn't, the thing has a 1500mah battery I believe. 1.5amps and less is fine. cablematters has a package for 5 bucks that has wall charger and car charger that are 1000 mah. and all IPHONES use 1000mah

hockeymike said:
Is there any advantage to having a lower power charger? If I could find a micro usb charger that provided 1 amp, would that detrimentally affect my device?
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Click to collapse
The amperage is really just the max amount of power the charger will supply. Many times, the actual power draw will be lower than the maximum of the charger..

robl45 said:
ROFL, don't mean to be rude, but try reading the adaptor it comes with, the wall adapter is 700mah, lower than what came with my 3 year old blackberry, I'm using the wifes old cube from her iphone now, thats a full 1 amp.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ah well would explain some of your guys issues, i have a lot of usb to ac adapters and the one for the epic is still sealed for myself..

[Q] Charge from PC in debug mode?

I have My Tab plugged in to my PC all day while debugging on it as I develop, unfortunately the fact that the tab somehow and for some reason disables charging while debugging is causing a huge problem for my workflow.
Can anybody suggest a possible solution that will allow me to charge and debug at the same time. My boss may consider allowing me to root the device (I know it's easy, I could do it right now, but it's political) if I know it's the only option.

The power outlet of the USB port isn't enough to charge it, which is driving me nuts too.
If you root it you can use ADB wireless (free app on market) to use adb over the wifi, and have the tab plugged into the wall. Otherwise I don't know. Maybe a hub with it's own power supply **might** do it, but I'm not sure.

TheGrammarFreak said:
The power outlet of the USB port isn't enough to charge it, which is driving me nuts too.
If you root it you can use ADB wireless (free app on market) to use adb over the wifi, and have the tab plugged into the wall. Otherwise I don't know. Maybe a hub with it's own power supply **might** do it, but I'm not sure.
Click to expand...
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Thanks, I assumed it was a software check that it's connected in debug and simply disabled.
My boss has agreed to allow me to root it on the basis that I can restore it to factory if required.

Cool beans. Glad I could be of assistance.

TheGrammarFreak said:
Cool beans. Glad I could be of assistance.
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I'm still surprised it's that much of a beast that it needs more power than the USB port can supply, I mean, is it all because of the screen?
The wall charger does 2A
But the specs aren't any higher than my HTC Desire except for the screen and that only needs 1A from the charger and can charge by USB too.

I genuinely have no idea. I'm given to understand that the Tab does charge from USB, albeit slowly. As for why it needs 2A, who knows. Maybe Samsung don't like us using other chargers.

TheGrammarFreak said:
I genuinely have no idea. I'm given to understand that the Tab does charge from USB, albeit slowly. As for why it needs 2A, who knows. Maybe Samsung don't like us using other chargers.
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Well my Tab doesn't charge from USB unless it's switched off. If it's on, the Battery symbol has a line throgh it, as in "charging disabled".

Yeah, mine does that too. I just use wireless ADB now, so much easier

alias_neo said:
Well my Tab doesn't charge from USB unless it's switched off. If it's on, the Battery symbol has a line throgh it, as in "charging disabled".
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I think you will find that even in those circumstances it is still actually charging, albeit very slowly.
I had my Tab hooked up to my PC last week and when I connected it up it was showing that it wasn't fully charged, and didn't appear to be charging. However, when I disconnected it some time later it appeared to be fully charged.
Perhaps it would be worthwhile downloading JuicePlotter to see what affect, it any, connecting the Tab to your USB port has.
Regards,
Dave

It's not the specs of the device, it's the size and resistance of the battery. It charges slowly over USB, and it charges a much smaller percentage of the battery's capacity than it would with a smartphone.
Easy math, it's over 3x the capacity of your Desire battery, and as you well know, even your Desire battery charges slowly over USB compared to mains.
The larger backlight should consume about twice the voltage of a 3.7" display (rough estimate), so you're barely pushing any charge at all via USB when the display is on, a trickle of a trickle.

Croak said:
It's not the specs of the device, it's the size and resistance of the battery. It charges slowly over USB, and it charges a much smaller percentage of the battery's capacity than it would with a smartphone.
Easy math, it's over 3x the capacity of your Desire battery, and as you well know, even your Desire battery charges slowly over USB compared to mains.
The larger backlight should consume about twice the voltage of a 3.7" display (rough estimate), so you're barely pushing any charge at all via USB when the display is on, a trickle of a trickle.
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Click to collapse
You're right, I probably should have looked into the rating of the Battery in this thing. As an Engineer, the math is trivial.
Still, It appears to me that it's not charging at all, not even trickle, from full charge when I left for work this morning to empty before the end of an 8 hour working day with it plugged in to usb the entire time, slightly disappointing result.

Just as a matter of interest, I installed JuicePlotter and attached my Tab to my laptop and adb'd into the Tab and left it for a while. JuicePlotter definitely shows the battery charge rising, but probably only in the region of 5-10% per hour.
Regards,
Dave

foxmeister said:
Just as a matter of interest, I installed JuicePlotter and attached my Tab to my laptop and adb'd into the Tab and left it for a while. JuicePlotter definitely shows the battery charge rising, but probably only in the region of 5-10% per hour.
Regards,
Dave
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I'll give it a try, where do I find this juice plotter? Market app?

alias_neo said:
I'll give it a try, where do I find this juice plotter? Market app?
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Yes, it's on the Market.
Regards,
Dave

foxmeister said:
Yes, it's on the Market.
Regards,
Dave
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As a pure matter of interest, and feel free to ignore me; why do you sign all your posts with "regards, Dave"?

TheGrammarFreak said:
As a pure matter of interest, and feel free to ignore me; why do you sign all your posts with "regards, Dave"?
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Cause its the gentalmanly thing to do? lol. Maybe its a sort of signature.

TheGrammarFreak said:
As a pure matter of interest, and feel free to ignore me; why do you sign all your posts with "regards, Dave"?
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? Same reason you sign all of yours like so?
HTC Legend, CyanogenMOD 6.1 nightly build 44 with 787MHz OC and /system overlay
Gapps for nightlies: (not that you should ever need them)
gapps-mdpi-20101020-signed
gapps-mdpi-tiny-20101020-signed
Please search, and engage brain! Click me!
---------------------
Device 2: Samsung Galaxy Tab, rooted
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TheGrammarFreak said:
As a pure matter of interest, and feel free to ignore me; why do you sign all your posts with "regards, Dave"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What Deafjam said!
Regards,
Dave

This power thing is annoying. I bought a 1 amp car charger USB adapter when I got my HTC Desire as running my satnav software on it otherwise depleted the battery quickly. The 1 amp charger was enough to charge the phone while running the software.
However, if I use it with my Tab, rhe battery is still running down while using the satnav software, although slowly.
If I got a 2 amp car charger adapter, would that solve the problem? Can one buy 2 amp adapters for the car? I don't reallly want to buy the way overpriced Samsung car charger, which isn't even available yet.
EDIT: OK I've found 2 amp USB car chargers are available. Will 2 amp be enough to charge the Tab while running the satnav software?

norm2002 said:
This power thing is annoying. I bought a 1 amp car charger USB adapter when I got my HTC Desire as running my satnav software on it otherwise depleted the battery quickly. The 1 amp charger was enough to charge the phone while running the software.
However, if I use it with my Tab, rhe battery is still running down while using the satnav software, although slowly.
If I got a 2 amp car charger adapter, would that solve the problem? Can one buy 2 amp adapters for the car? I don't reallly want to buy the way overpriced Samsung car charger, which isn't even available yet.
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I have never seen a 2A car charger but yes, that would do the trick if you found one. I assume Samsung's will be 2A, how much is it to be "overpriced"? A 2A Samsung official car charger is probably worth about £25 I'd say.

[Q] USB charging current???

I think there is a serious problem with my charging circuit on this phone. I have no idea if its hardware or software that is controlling the charging circuit but I can tell you that it literally takes forever to charge my phone via USB and this is unacceptable from a consumer standpoint.
I wanted to see how much current the phone was asking for and I was really surprised to see 96mA!!!
No wonder its charging so slow, something is really wrong here, and It doesnt look like a faulty battery. The phone should be asking for 10x this much current.
Can some people post how much current their phones are drawing from the usb port?
If you dont know how to do this, in "device manager" double click on the appropriate "usb root hub" that your phone is connected to and click on the "power" tab. Post results.

You are trying to charge your device on a pc correct?
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

500mah is the max just about any phone will charge at from a usb port, at least without any modifications like fast charge drivers.

USB current, for charging purposes, is and always will be low. Otherwise you would burn up your motherboard. Alternatively it would let the magic smoke out of your phone and it would quit working properly.
Sent from Bonsai 6

+1 to the two posts above me. I suggest getting a wall adapter for your usb and charging it there, you will get vastly superior charging times
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

Top Nurse said:
USB current, for charging purposes, is and always will be low. Otherwise you would burn up your motherboard. Alternatively it would let the magic smoke out of your phone and it would quit working properly.
Sent from Bonsai 6
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USB current, for charging purposes, should be and always be 500mA. 96mA is not enough to charge one of these phones. You cannot burn up your mother board if the device calls for more than 500mA, as that is all that is available for each usb port.
Ive connected three of my old phones and an EVO and a mytouch Slide, they all ask for the maximum allowed current as they should. I do have a wall charger and it charges fine, Im trying to see if everyone else has the same USB charging problem as me, or if I have a broken phone, or if I just have some bad software on my phone.
Please if anyone can post results it will be helpful.

Hello again,
My G2 is asking for 500ma
Sent from my overclocked G2

PaganAng3l said:
Hello again,
My G2 is asking for 500ma
Sent from my overclocked G2
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Click to collapse
thanks but can you please post results for the an EPIC 4G phone?

Connected to a PC USB port, the Epic 4G will only draw 380ma. Via a wall charger is will only draw 600ma. Hence why charging on a PC is slower. Simple as that.

I also show exactly 96 mA, regardless of which USB port I am plugged into. Practically new motherboard, so I know the USB current isn't an issue. New Blackberry USB cable (far superior to stock Samsung cables).

IIRC, 500ma is the max draw per hub, not USB port. This is why people get powered add on hubs so they can have components that take more draw than a computer USB port will give.
Sent from Bonsai 6

Top Nurse said:
IIRC, 500ma is the max draw per hub, not USB port. This is why people get powered add on hubs so they can have components that take more draw than a computer USB port will give.
Sent from Bonsai 6
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Click to collapse
500Ma is NOT the per 'hub' power supplied, 500Ma is the PER PORT current max. EACH port on the motherboard will supply up to 500Ma, trying to draw more will not work. It won't burn it out, it just won't supply any more than that. If you have 8 ports on your MOBO, you will get a total of 4A of current in total, not exceeding 500Ma per port. If you hookup an UNPOWERED hub to your mobo, the total draw still cannot exceed the 500Ma. If the hub is powered, it will provide 500Ma to each port on it, and draw virtually none from the MOBO.
This is why you see some external devices with dual USB cords, or a single with a Y. This is because it will combine the 500Ma from each port to power the device for up to 1A of current.
96Ma will not charge the phone, it's not even enough to power the phone while making a call.
How are you measuring your current draw? Try other USB devices. Wall charging takes between 2 and 3hrs to charge depending if the phone is on and its current draw for what it's doing.

Top Nurse said:
USB current, for charging purposes, is and always will be low. Otherwise you would burn up your motherboard. Alternatively it would let the magic smoke out of your phone and it would quit working properly.
Sent from Bonsai 6
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pretty much every USB host device I've used can easily deliver 1A. Most new machines can deliver 2A (such as ASUS boards and Macs) over USB. The Epic still charges way too slowly even off a wall charger. It'd be nice if it drew 1A instead of ~600mA. Most other devices use much higher charge currents when plugged into AC.
As for the Epic's charge current, I think the USB driver on it just reports charge current incorrectly.

Orbiting234 said:
Connected to a PC USB port, the Epic 4G will only draw 380ma. Via a wall charger is will only draw 600ma. Hence why charging on a PC is slower. Simple as that.
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thanks to the two people, that haven't been derailing this thread into a "how usb ports work discussion".
if anyone wants to help instead of arguing over how usb ports work, it would be really helpful to know what rom and kernel you are using when you tested your epic 4g device.
Im especially interested to know this information about orbiting who is getting 380mA. Im also interested in how you measured measured the 600mA from the wall charger.
Its posted at the end of the OP how to see how much current your phone is asking for.

I think the charge controler on the Epic will alter the current draw depending on how close it is to fully charged . Once it gets above about 90% charge the current should taper off. this is to prolong the battery life.
The Normal charging times starting at about 30% is under 3 hours on a wall charger for me. I can go from about 70% to 100% om my laptop in about an hour.

poit said:
I think the charge controler on the Epic will alter the current draw depending on how close it is to fully charged . Once it gets above about 90% charge the current should taper off. this is to prolong the battery life.
The Normal charging times starting at about 30% is under 3 hours on a wall charger for me. I can go from about 70% to 100% om my laptop in about an hour.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I already know this, and its not what I asked for.

poit said:
I think the charge controler on the Epic will alter the current draw depending on how close it is to fully charged . Once it gets above about 90% charge the current should taper off. this is to prolong the battery life.
The Normal charging times starting at about 30% is under 3 hours on a wall charger for me. I can go from about 70% to 100% om my laptop in about an hour.
Click to expand...
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mrhocuspocus said:
I already know this, and its not what I asked for.
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I appologize for wasting your time, but let me elaborate.
Right now my phone is at 89% charge, and right now the "Power Required" field in the USB root properties is showing 96 ma. I doubt that is an actual measured current, more likely it's what the port controller on the Epic reports as a minimum current required. What I can tell you is that even with that info, my phone charges fine. Seems unlikely that it's only supplying 96ma because I'd expect the phone must draw 40 ma or so just to idle.
What would be more useful would be an app on the phone that polled the charge controller to give us actual voltage and current data. I had one on my old TP2 that was great, but I don't know about one for Android.
Edit: in the time it took to type this reply the State of Charge went from 89 to 92%, yet the properties still shows 96 ma. I think the controller is getting way more than 96ma, so that number is likely bogus.
I guess that wasn't what you asked for either, but maybe it is stilll useful

poit said:
the USB root properties is showing 96 ma. I doubt that is an actual measured current, more likely it's what the port controller on the Epic reports as a minimum current required.
I guess that wasn't what you asked for either, but maybe it is stilll useful
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no need to apologize, I could explain to you why what you think is "more likely" is actually less likely. but it would only further derail this thread. feel free to pm me if you are interested.
all im interested in is three things:
current asked for by phone from pc usb, rom version, and kernel version.
someone already reported 380mA. but i have no idea what software he is on.

I'm running completely stock EB13. On my newer laptop with Windows 7 it shows 96mA in the device manager. On my ancient Dell PC at work running XP, it shows 96mA as well. In both cases I'm plugging the phone directly into a USB port, no external hubs.

xxmastermindxx said:
I also show exactly 96 mA, regardless of which USB port I am plugged into. Practically new motherboard, so I know the USB current isn't an issue. New Blackberry USB cable (far superior to stock Samsung cables).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm running the latest Syndicate 1.0.1 with their latest 1.0.3 kernel. My quote above is when I was running Syndicate 1.0.0 and kernel 1.0.1.
If I go back to stock for some reason, I'll post those numbers up too.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App

Charging from USB?

I keep getting a red X Through my battery when plugged into my laptop to charge, is this normal? I really dont want to plug into the wall to charge

Really hope this doesn't become the case and that it will charge off of any USB charger...in particular like the one in my car that accepts USB Devices.

My friend has a galaxy and has the same issue, idk if its our laptops or what

Okay this has been address. please search but ill answer for you.
This device uses 5v 2a to charge. Hence the wall unit. you computer is 5v 1a or 1.5a (its not enough)
The device will maintain and in some cases when screen off slowly charge when plugged into computer or usb adaptor with the red "x" through it.
you can find a usb adapter cable which has a switch to allow you to charge while connected to a computer. its a data and charge switch. search for it. i think its on ebay.
also you can find on amazon or google shopping wall chargers for the p1000 which work for like 8$

dsh897 said:
Okay this has been address. please search but ill answer for you.
This device uses 5v 2a to charge. Hence the wall unit. you computer is 5v 1a or 1.5a (its not enough)
The device will maintain and in some cases when screen off slowly charge when plugged into computer or usb adaptor with the red "x" through it.
you can find a usb adapter cable which has a switch to allow you to charge while connected to a computer. its a data and charge switch. search for it. i think its on ebay.
also you can find on amazon or google shopping wall chargers for the p1000 which work for like 8$
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thanks, and thats very disappointing

DroidHam said:
thanks, and thats very disappointing
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its not disappointing at all.what other tegra2 tablet can even trickle charge through USB 2.0?

madsquabbles said:
its not disappointing at all.what other tegra2 tablet can even trickle charge through USB 2.0?
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My xoom could.

DroidHam said:
My xoom could.
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my 4 didn't and neither does a bunch of other peoples xooms. even if it did it would only charge at the same rate as the gt10.1 charges - 5 watts. that's the max USB 2.0 spec.

It should be easily solved with a 2 x male 1 x female usb cable
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-19158458583166_2164_10126151

DroidHam said:
I keep getting a red X Through my battery when plugged into my laptop to charge, is this normal? I really dont want to plug into the wall to charge
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It charges through usb when the tab is powered off.

zaphyr said:
It should be easily solved with a 2 x male 1 x female usb cable
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-19158458583166_2164_10126151
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Where does one buy said cable?

hshah said:
Where does one buy said cable?
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Depends on your country I guess, I bought mine from Dustinhome.se:
http://www.dustinhome.se/pd_5010312807.aspx

Lou2serious said:
It charges through usb when the tab is powered off.
Click to expand...
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even with it on it'll charge slowly.

Those double cables are cheap (around £3 in the UK) so I might pick up a couple of those and leave them at work and in the car

hshah said:
Where does one buy said cable?
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http://cgi.ebay.com/New-USB-2-0-Fem...871?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ba21e847

Having this Y-cable will also help with the fact that the USB cable that came with the tablet is so sort. I have a lot of 5V power supplies around but they are all from 50ma to 1a. Can't believe this thing needs to much power to charge, I would think that 1a would be enough just to maintain it when in use.

OK, I got a couple Y/Split cables and I still have red X when plugged into two USB ports, I even tried two ports that are on different controllers... as well as two USB3 ports in my laptop. I even tried my desktop. No luck.
Has anyone gotten this to work?

I posted in the accessories section about this subject, see here;
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=14890063&postcount=16
and here;
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=14922116&postcount=27

The red x will show up if you are charging with anything under 2A. If I remember correctly usb 1 puts out 100ma and usb 2 & 3 put out 500ma. Even with a Y adapter you will only get 1A. If the screen is off then you will charge the battery however with the screen on, you are using the same amount of power that the usb is providing. Therefore the x because the battery is not charging.
Sent from my GT-P7510 using XDA Premium App

ericlmccormick said:
The red x will show up if you are charging with anything under 2A. If I remember correctly usb 1 puts out 100ma and usb 2 & 3 put out 500ma.
Sent from my GT-P7510 using XDA Premium App
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With the adapter I posted about above, I never see the red x and I am charging off USB 2.
-EDIT-
To be clear, I am using a 10.1v not a 10.1 - there could be differences, but I doubt it.

[Q] usb 3.0 charging/mac issues?

So, I have a macbook air with 2 usb 3.0 ports. But, when I plug in my normal 3.0 cable that I got with the note 3.. it most certainly does not charge as fast as it should.
It's charging very slow.. am I doing something wrong here? Anyone else?
I see that it says use as a media device (3.0 device) but it's greyed out and won't let me select it.

dtully808 said:
So, I have a macbook air with 2 usb 3.0 ports. But, when I plug in my normal 3.0 cable that I got with the note 3.. it most certainly does not charge as fast as it should.
It's charging very slow.. am I doing something wrong here? Anyone else?
I see that it says use as a media device (3.0 device) but it's greyed out and won't let me select it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey. I have the exact same problem as you do. I just got my note 3 and plugged it into my 2013 macbook air. It wouldnt chsrge at all even though it says charging. So I just plugged it to thr wall and it took just a little over an hour to charge from 25 to 51%. Is this normal?

Sounds like it has something to do with the Darwin Kernel guys. Apple will probably have to do a patch to fix it.

boogerburns said:
Sounds like it has something to do with the Darwin Kernel guys. Apple will probably have to do a patch to fix it.
Click to expand...
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Hm, well I noticed that if you go to Battery under Settings, it shows as Charging (USB) when plugged to the macbook. However, if you plug it using the wall outlet, it shows as Charging (AC).

Its either in the Kernel of the Macbook, or the Kernel of the GN3. If its the Macbook, well it will probably never happen. If its the GN3 kernel, you just have to be paitient and wait for custom recoveries so we can flash kernels and roms that support FastCharge on USB. USB 3.0 can supply the juice, it just has to be told to.
gn3user said:
Hm, well I noticed that if you go to Battery under Settings, it shows as Charging (USB) when plugged to the macbook. However, if you plug it using the wall outlet, it shows as Charging (AC).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

boogerburns said:
Its either in the Kernel of the Macbook, or the Kernel of the GN3. If its the Macbook, well it will probably never happen. If its the GN3 kernel, you just have to be paitient and wait for custom recoveries so we can flash kernels and roms that support FastCharge on USB. USB 3.0 can supply the juice, it just has to be told to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay that makes sense. Thanks for the quick answer. Btw, does the battery life improve as time goes by? My Note 3 dropped from 90 to 60% overnight.

Sent from my SM-N900V using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Think in milliamps yall... Your wall charger that came with the note is 2000mA... The usb3 port on your mac is 900mA... that won't even charge when the screen is on... just enough to keep it from draining... it will charge very slowly (less than half speed) if you power down the Note3.

b00mb00mchuck said:
Think in milliamps yall... Your wall charger that came with the note is 2000mA... The usb3 port on your mac is 900mA... that won't even charge when the screen is on... just enough to keep it from draining... it will charge very slowly (less than half speed) if you power down the Note3.
Click to expand...
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This...

b00mb00mchuck said:
Think in milliamps yall... Your wall charger that came with the note is 2000mA... The usb3 port on your mac is 900mA... that won't even charge when the screen is on... just enough to keep it from draining... it will charge very slowly (less than half speed) if you power down the Note3.
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That's correct, but newer Macbook Pro's have a neat feature. They can provide up to 1600 mA additional current (apple devices e.g. iPad), wich adds up to 2.1A. If there was just a way to disguise a Note as an iPad.

MrBoondy said:
That's correct, but newer Macbook Pro's have a neat feature. They can provide up to 1600 mA additional current (apple devices e.g. iPad), wich adds up to 2.1A. If there was just a way to disguise a Note as an iPad.
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Yeah, but knowing apple its only for apple devices. Pretty sure it drops well below that for non-apple devices.