Related
Ipad 2:
Video formats supported: H.264 video up to 720p, 30 frames per second, Main Profile level 3.1 with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; MPEG-4 video, up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Simple Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps per channel, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; Motion JPEG (M-JPEG) up to 35 Mbps, 1280 by 720 pixels, 30 frames per second, audio in ulaw, PCM stereo audio in .avi file format
XOOM:
If you stick with H.264 Baseline Profile, you can achieve up to 1920x1080p at 30 fps at 20Mbps.
Baseline Profile means:
- No CABAC entropy coding.
- No B frames
- No 8x8 transforms (DCT)
- No Weighted Prediction
For 1280x720p at 30 fps, you can go up to 20Mbps and Motorola XOOM should still be able to handle it. More Realistically, depending on the content, you can get away with 4Mbps and up with varying degrees of quality. If you are tight on space, use 4Mbps. If you want something to look good you can use 10/12 Mbps. At some point though the higher the bitrate will only translate to decreasing amounts of quality improvement. In other words, 20Mbps will probably look as good as 15Mbps, but will just use up more space. Ultimately, there is really no one size fits all solution and it may take a little experimentation to find the settings that work best for the content you wish to view.
Additionally your device does not have a limitation on certain types of B frames (Main profile tool). So you can add in B frames and not affect performance that much. If you are using a encoding tool that uses B frames, such as QuickTime Pro, you should be able to achieve main profile encoding.
If you are using a lower resolution that 720p (such as 720x480 resolution size) in order to encode longer length video , you can get away with using more tools (High and Main profile tools). However, encoding become more complex and may require more experimentation to achieve acceptable results.
In general, if you are concern about performance, use baseline tools and possibly b-frames (with no weighted prediction). This will give you the best performance.
Also as side note, if you are upscaling from a DVD to 720p try to use the best upscaling algorithm provided and don't expect to get true 720p quality from upscaled DVD.
Looks like Xoom is a tad bit better in terms of supported Hardware video decode capabilities.
In terms of GPU - it seems that the Ipad 2 may have a bit of an edge with the new power VR 543 - though this is not official as there are no direct comparisons yet.
Well my Epic4g with the Powervr SGX540 plays back high profile 720p FLAWLESSLY. The iPad will be capable of much more than that with the newer chip. The video standards that they "support" are the ones that they use through itunes and in no way represent the highest possible encoding of video that will play back. The instant XBMC hits the iPad2, I expect at least 1080p main profile to work since 1080p high profile ALMOST works on the iPad1.
muyoso said:
Well my Epic4g with the Powervr SGX540 plays back high profile 720p FLAWLESSLY. The iPad will be capable of much more than that with the newer chip. The video standards that they "support" are the ones that they use through itunes and in no way represent the highest possible encoding of video that will play back. The instant XBMC hits the iPad2, I expect at least 1080p main profile to work since 1080p high profile ALMOST works on the iPad1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's that you say, the iPad can output 1080p? Well sort of. The iPad can mirror its 1024x768 display in 1080p but it still won't decode 1080p H.264 videos, and we don't know what type of TV you have, but we'd bet ours does a little bit better job of scaling than the magical iPad. All that being said, the iPad 2's new form factor will increase its desirability as a couch companion --not to mention we'll buy anything with magnets -- but an HD source device, not so much.
That's from engadget
http://hd.engadget.com/2011/03/02/the-ipad-2-and-1080p-theres-nothing-to-see-here/
There are a lot of threads about xoom video limitations.
Am I the only person who just copied dvd rips from my iTunes folder straight to the xoom, and watch them with zero issues?
Maybe my handbrake settings arent top-notch, but the quality/size trade off worked fine on my old I pad, and work fine for the xoom. If I wanted full crazy HD, i'd watch from the blu-ray disk directly, on a TV that does it justice.
Am I crazy?
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App
It won't do it officially. Once it its jailbroken though it will have xbmc and will have ridiculous capabilities. For example the current ipad can play 720p high profile with xbmc now.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Bauxite said:
Because the specs page for the iPad 2 lists SO many more formats.... stop trolling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What the specs page lists for the iPad 2 is irrelevant. Here my iPad1 playing a 720p [email protected] h.264 mkv file:
http://vimeo.com/20636064
Pretty sure the iPad never had that listed on its specs page. For a comparison, here is the Notion Ink and the Xoom playing back that exact same clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXWu6m33EP0&feature=player_detailpage#t=231s
muyoso said:
What the specs page lists for the iPad 2 is irrelevant. Here my iPad1 playing a 720p [email protected] h.264 mkv file:
http://vimeo.com/20636064
Pretty sure the iPad never had that listed on its specs page.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How long did it take from the MOMENT the iPad was released to when that became supported by some app?
People act like just because there are no apps RIGHT NOW for the xoom to play additional formats that there never ever will be.
Bauxite said:
How long did it take from the MOMENT the iPad was released to when that became supported by some app?
People act like just because there are no apps RIGHT NOW for the xoom to play additional formats that there never ever will be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It took a while for XBMC to be ported, 9 months or so. Dont know if they were working on it that entire time. The reason people act like that BTW is because the Tegra 2 is incapable of hardware decoding [email protected] or higher. Here is the guy who ported XBMC to the iPad and AppleTV and who was tasked with porting to Tegra 2 devices talking about it:
http://forum.xbmc.org/showpost.php?p=735285&postcount=41
Believe me, I wish that were not the case. Wants me some Xoom or Galaxy Tab 10.1 action.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the only thing difference I seem to see from baseline and high profile h.264 is compression. My Xoom is fully capable of displaying the converted 720p mkvs with no chop/stutter in widescreen format on its screen. I've yet to test out hdmi out to my TV though.
Unless you want to talk about bitrate, but I can hardly tell the difference in quality loss vs source on something that I downloaded off the internet.
iceytea said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but the only thing difference I seem to see from baseline and high profile h.264 is compression. My Xoom is fully capable of displaying the converted 720p mkvs with no chop/stutter in widescreen format on its screen. I've yet to test out hdmi out to my TV though.
Unless you want to talk about bitrate, but I can hardly tell the difference in quality loss vs source on something that I downloaded off the internet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh there is no doubt that you can convert the video to play back perfectly on the Xoom. That isn't in question. I personally just think its ridiculous to have to.
Good read on the differences here, especially on page 3:
http://www.polycom.com/global/documents/whitepapers/h264_high_profile_wp.pdf
Warning, above is a direct link to a pdf.
Thanks for the read, I skimmed it and it pretty much sums up as higher compression without visual quality loss. I never put it together that the development of high profile was used for bandwidth savings though, interesting.
muyoso said:
Oh there is no doubt that you can convert the video to play back perfectly on the Xoom. That isn't in question. I personally just think its ridiculous to have to.
Good read on the differences here, especially on page 3:
http://www.polycom.com/global/documents/whitepapers/h264_high_profile_wp.pdf
Warning, above is a direct link to a pdf.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your posts, and yes, I COMPLETELY AGREE with you! Once I began my due diligence today comparing the iPad 1, iPad 2, and the Xoom I thought to see if high profile h.264 was supported.
I was shocked to find out that the Tegra 2's hw (and Nvidia has confirmed this) does not support high profile h.264. BUT.... the iPad 1 does?! It's ridiculous quite frankly, and in my eyes, Tegra 2 is partial failure because of it.
Anyway, iPad 1 handles that Planet Earth clip (i.e. the de facto pseudo h.264 720p/1080p benchmark for years it seems!) beautifully. How's the batter life when watching h.264? How long can you get? Also, I would think the iPad 2 is capable of 1080p high profile yes?
In any event, I won't be buying a zoom. For the steeper price point, that is just insulting. I'm gonna try to find one of the remnant ipad 1s from Verizon that have been creeping around for ~$300, however unlikely at that price point it may be to find!
Kudos to your efforts and exposing this massive fault in the Xoom. I have NEVER been a fan of reconversion of the years, from divx in its earliest days through xvid (when apple ironically pushed 'reconversion' into mainstream)... glad that w/ this bad boy that won't be necessary as I'd never do it, too much hassle and insulting, imho.
Not being able to play 720p videos is the main reason I returned the xoom. If I am forced to convert videos I might as well do it for the ipad.
I am so tempted to sell my xoom because of this video playback issue...
I have a lot of bluray rips and I cant watch them on the xoom.
They were encoded using the Apple TV2 preset in handbrake, which I'm guessing is high profile
Oh wow, if this is that serious most of the Honeycomb tablets will be losing quite a lot of sells. I hope Samsung doesn't use the Tegra in their tabs. I'm fine with their Exynos, assuming it has the amazing codec support their Hummingbird does.
Its not the chip ( http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-2.html ) supports 1080p h264 just fine. As it stands right now, best I have been able to gather, it is a software/firmware (likely drivers) issue causing the poor playback.
pjcforpres said:
Its not the chip ( http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-2.html ) supports 1080p h264 just fine. As it stands right now, best I have been able to gather, it is a software/firmware (likely drivers) issue causing the poor playback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would seem to make since, but I believe in Google...A phrase I never thought I would be saying ever lol.
Sorry. But there isn't much doubt at this time that it IS in fact the "chip"
There are dozens upon dozens upon dozens of articles at this point citing the same thing: Tegra 2 CANNOT DECODE HIGH PROFILE VIDEO.
Period.
If you need me to cite about 50 different sources, I would be happy to do so.
Digital Man said:
Sorry. But there isn't much doubt at this time that it IS in fact the "chip"
There are dozens upon dozens upon dozens of articles at this point citing the same thing: Tegra 2 CANNOT DECODE HIGH PROFILE VIDEO.
Period.
If you need me to cite about 50 different sources, I would be happy to do so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, no, I'll take your word for it. I guess some of us were hoping that it was just a honeycomb issue that would be fixed with an update.
pjcforpres said:
Its not the chip ( http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-2.html ) supports 1080p h264 just fine. As it stands right now, best I have been able to gather, it is a software/firmware (likely drivers) issue causing the poor playback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Xoom can play baseline 1080p h.264. The Xoom cannot play 720p high profile h.264. I would venture to guess that 90% of all video that people have that they didn't videotape themselves is high profile h.264 with 9.99% of the remainder being main profile h.264.
hakujin said:
Anyway, iPad 1 handles that Planet Earth clip (i.e. the de facto pseudo h.264 720p/1080p benchmark for years it seems!) beautifully. How's the batter life when watching h.264? How long can you get? Also, I would think the iPad 2 is capable of 1080p high profile yes?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The iPad 1 handles the Planet Earth clip perfectly, but do realize that it is a jailbroken iPad with XBMC installed. The iPad does not natively support high profile h.264 even though the hardware is capable, because Apple wants you to buy media through iTunes.
The iPad 2 SHOULD be capable of 1080p high profile, but we won't know for sure until it too is jailbroken and XBMC is installed/optimized.
There are a lot of MP4 video clips that I cannot get to play on Xoom smoothly but they play back really well on my HTC Desire.
On Xoom the video is laggy while the audio is audible. This happened to both 720p and 480p videos. I used both the default player and Moboplayer to ensure I am using the hardware acceleration.
Strangely on my Xoom the Moboplayer can soft-decode 480p MP4 with ffmpeg and playback without any problem. 720 is smoother but the decoding was too slow which resulted in A-V async.
Again, all those clips play really well on my HTC Desire. Tegra 2 should be able to handle them.
Anyone knows anything?
Please search the forum before asking questions. This has been asnswered.
The problem you're having is to do with the clips using high profile encoding.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=968640&highlight=video
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=968308&highlight=video
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=972812&highlight=video
There's lots more. All I can say is, learn to love Handbrake and be prepared to have your computer running all night every night if you ever want to watch HD movies on this thing.
I dont agree; I have transcoded 2 blue rays, hellboy and start trek 2009 in about an hour each, using my imac and handbreak
Oh, and download Vitalplayer from the market for the best hd video playback..
wase4711 said:
I dont agree; I have transcoded 2 blue rays, hellboy and start trek 2009 in about an hour each, using my imac and handbreak
Oh, and download Vitalplayer from the market for the best hd video playback..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, well, I don't agree.
I converted 2 720p mkv 90 minute movies and a 40 minute 720p mkv TV show last night and it took 6 hours. This was done on an Intel Core 2 duo P750 2.26GHz
Not everyone has the same hardware. I suppose I could run out and buy an i5 or i7 for the sole purpose of encoding video for the XOOM.
Maybe Motorola can partner with a PC company. How about 20% off a new laptop when you buy a XOOM that way you will be able to take advantage of its HD video capability in 2 hours instead of six.
Digital Man said:
Yeah, well, I don't agree.
I converted 2 720p mkv 90 minute movies and a 40 minute 720p mkv TV show last night and it took 6 hours. This was done on an Intel Core 2 duo P750 2.26GHz
Not everyone has the same hardware. I suppose I could run out and buy an i5 or i7 for the sole purpose of encoding video for the XOOM.
Maybe Motorola can partner with a PC company. How about 20% off a new laptop when you buy a XOOM that way you will be able to take advantage of its HD video capability in 2 hours instead of six.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It all depends on your settings, and keep in mind that the imac is going to have similar hardware to your machine. The recommendation is to set max width to 1280, set B Frames to 0, turn off CABAC, 8x8 Transform, and Weighted P frames. If you do that, you'll find fairly consistent encoding times even with older hardware. Also, keep in mind that encoding is entirely processor bound and will do better the more cores you can throw at it.
mcnutty said:
It all depends on your settings, and keep in mind that the imac is going to have similar hardware to your machine. The recommendation is to set max width to 1280, set B Frames to 0, turn off CABAC, 8x8 Transform, and Weighted P frames. If you do that, you'll find fairly consistent encoding times even with older hardware. Also, keep in mind that encoding is entirely processor bound and will do better the more cores you can throw at it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Been there done that. There are no shortcuts. Good quality takes time or more cores. Or harness the GPU ie CUDA but that causes horrendous macroblocking in bright scenes.
No matter how you sugar coat it, re-encoding video is a time consuming pain in the ass for most people.
I also seem to remember there are multiple versions of the imac, with variable hardware specs, from dual core up to quad core 3.6GHz - so your claim of similar hardware seems unlikely.
..........
e.mote said:
>I converted 2 720p mkv 90 minute movies and a 40 minute 720p mkv TV show last night and it took 6 hours.
Suggest using 800 max width for substantially faster encode speed and smaller size. Quality diff is negligible on a 10".
If using 2-pass, switch to 1-pass for both faster encode time AND better quality.
Unfortunately, HB doesn't provide x264's speed presets. You can gain additional speed (at cost of some nominal size increase) with the faster presets. Hmm, I should update my HB script to allow "downloadables" as input.
>The recommendation is to set max width to 1280, set B Frames to 0, turn off CABAC, 8x8 Transform, and Weighted P frames. If you do that, you'll find fairly consistent encoding times even with older hardware.
Encoding to baseline profile (what the above basically means) gains speed by disabling more advanced "compression" features. The trade-off is significant size increase, about +30% vs high profile.
Using a lower res allows more efficient settings. At 800 width, you can use main profile. Speed diff between main & baseline is insignificant. Speed gain for the lower res is substantial.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I appreciate that your trying to help, but those are the settings that I have been using already: 1280, set B Frames to 0, turn off CABAC, turn off 8x8 Transform, and turn off Weighted P frames....
and it is still taking well over 3 hours to re-encode a 1:30 movie.
I understand that lowering the resolution will decrease the encoding time, but I consider that a last resort compromise. In fact I would consider that basically a failure of the XOOM.
I have considered buying an i5 or i7, but I feel stupid buying a new laptop for the sole purpose of encoding for the XOOM, when I could just pick up my Galaxy Tab and just play these videos immediately. No encoding. Just copy them over and play.
I am quite sure those videos are not high profile. Their bitrates were around 2M, way below 20M.
And, as I said, I can even do soft-decode to play the 480ps which does not play well with hard-decoding.
480ps, man. 480ps. Stunning.
e.mote said:
Last edited by e.mote; Today at 10:19 PM. Reason: reply removed, as recipient can't read
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your sarcasm needs work. It lacks creativity. And removing the original post is just immature.
Digital Man said:
Your sarcasm needs work. It lacks creativity. And removing the original post is just immature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't really care about the encoding stage, I have an i7-950 which encodes a blu-ray in handbreak in well under an hour.
What I'd like to know, is are the codecs really this lacking, and will we see a solution?
I, like the OP have a HTC Desire and I could be devastated to find the XOOM can't handle the videos my Desire can.
Does it natively support mkv? I like to watch TV episodes in mkv like the 86MB Big Bang Theory episodes.
All my non-TV stuff I rip myself so I'm not concerned. Other than the DRM wmv I buy. Which play back fine on my galaxy tab.
alias_neo said:
I don't really care about the encoding stage, I have an i7-950 which encodes a blu-ray in handbreak in well under an hour.
What I'd like to know, is are the codecs really this lacking, and will we see a solution?
I, like the OP have a HTC Desire and I could be devastated to find the XOOM can't handle the videos my Desire can.
Does it natively support mkv? I like to watch TV episodes in mkv like the 86MB Big Bang Theory episodes.
All my non-TV stuff I rip myself so I'm not concerned. Other than the DRM wmv I buy. Which play back fine on my galaxy tab.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most TV shows that are 720p mkv, and are privately enoded, and downloaded, average about 1.2 GB and will and not play. Support for MKV as a container isn't a problem, its the profile of the h264 video in the container that is the problem.
If the Video that you like to watch is only 86MB, that doesn't sound like high profile 720p. So it might play, only way to know is to try or download mediaInfo and check its properties.
Good to hear that the i7 that you have can do a blu-ray in an hour. That sounds like what I should do eventually. Wonder if an i5 will do as well. I've heard that the i7, though it has 4 physical cores, is seen as 8 due to multithreading, wheras the i5 is limited to 4.
I watched two re-encoded episodes of fringe last night, and the Video on the XOOM is really amazing. It actually is almost worth the wait.
Digital Man said:
Most TV shows that are 720p mkv, and are privately enoded, and downloaded, average about 1.2 GB and will and not play. Support for MKV as a container isn't a problem, its the profile of the h264 video in the container that is the problem.
If the Video that you like to watch is only 86MB, that doesn't sound like high profile 720p. So it might play, only way to know is to try or download mediaInfo and check its properties.
Good to hear that the i7 that you have can do a blu-ray in an hour. That sounds like what I should do eventually. Wonder if an i5 will do as well. I've heard that the i7, though it has 4 physical cores, is seen as 8 due to multithreading, wheras the i5 is limited to 4.
I watched two re-encoded episodes of fringe last night, and the Video on the XOOM is really amazing. It actually is almost worth the wait.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's correct, it's an 8 threaded processor, running on an Asus ROG III Gene.
As for the videos I'm watching:
Video
ID/String : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format_Profile : [email protected]
Format_Settings_CABAC/String : Yes
Format_Settings_RefFrames/String : 4 frames
Format_Settings_GOP : M=4, N=48
CodecID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration/String : 20mn 24s
BitRate/String : 465 Kbps
Width/String : 624 pixels
Height/String : 352 pixels
DisplayAspectRatio/String : 16:9
FrameRate/String : 23.976 fps
Standard : NTSC
ColorSpace : YUV
ChromaSubsampling : 4:2:0
BitDepth/String : 8 bits
ScanType/String : Progressive
Bits-(Pixel*Frame) : 0.088
StreamSize/String : 67.8 MiB (77%)
They're not 720, but they're nice enough on my Galaxy Tab. They are High Profile @ L4.0 though which I'v heard a lot of bad-mouthing about on the forum lately. I'm no expert on media codecs and frankly couldn't care as long as theyre watchable. I'd love to know I could rip my Blu-Rays at 720p and watch them on the XOOM comfortably though.
What you are posting is interesting. Its high profile, but low bit rate. Some of the early claims for the Tegra 2, which is used in the XOOM, said it actually could play high profile but only at a low bit rate, but I haven't heard it confirmed. I suspect this video will not play, but later on I will try encoding a video in a simliar manner to yours and see what happens.
Digital Man said:
What you are posting is interesting. Its high profile, but low bit rate. Some of the early claims for the Tegra 2, which is used in the XOOM, said it actually could play high profile but only at a low bit rate, but I haven't heard it confirmed. I suspect this video will not play, but later on I will try encoding a video in a simliar manner to yours and see what happens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great, if you like I can dropbox the file I have and PM you the link for testing. These files playback flawlessly using the Galaxy Tab with every single player software I have tried, whether hardware or software decoding. FOr them not to play on the XOOM would be a killer.
Got your file. Sorry, it plays but with no sound. I tried RockPlayer and Moboplayer and the System Player and all play the same - silent.
The Video is actually pretty good. Smooth and very acceptable. So I guess it can technically play high profile, very low bitrate files - just not with sound. Have to Play around some more and see if I can learn anything else that might get this to play correctly or figure out what the problem is.
Edit: Actually, this is a Divx encoded file, not h264, so that is why it plays. So I am a little surprised about the lack of audio. And its only mp3 audio!!! This is really amazing. I can't believe the XOOM isn't playing this correctly. Has to be a way.
Update: Ok, success! It does play correctly in Rockplayer in software decoding mode. With sound. So it looks like you will have no problem.
Digital Man said:
Got your file. Sorry, it plays but with no sound. I tried RockPlayer and Moboplayer and the System Player and all play the same - silent.
The Video is actually pretty good. Smooth and very acceptable. So I guess it can technically play high profile, very low bitrate files - just not with sound. Have to Play around some more and see if I can learn anything else that might get this to play correctly or figure out what the problem is.
Edit: Actually, this is a Divx encoded file, not h264, so that is why it plays. So I am a little surprised about the lack of audio. And its only mp3 audio!!! This is really amazing. I can't believe the XOOM isn't playing this correctly. Has to be a way.
Update: Ok, success! It does play correctly in Rockplayer in software decoding mode. With sound. So it looks like you will have no problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting, if somewhat concerning that it won't play this in the standard players or with hard-decoding even though it uses mp3 audio.
How about VPlayer Advanced? I find this plays most of my videos nicely on the Tab.
Probably just lack of Divx support in hardware. Thats not a big deal, even a single core CPU of lower power can easily decode low res, low bitrate Divx. I don't consider that a flaw at all. Software decoding video like this with the XOOM's dual core A9's is trivial. Results are fine. Just need an app like RockPlayer that does it. XVID files will probably not work in hardware either.
From Motorolas website:
PLAYABLE FORMATS
AAC, H.263, H.264, MP3, MPEG-4, ACC+ Enhanced, OGG, MIDI, AMR NB, AAC+
Digital Man said:
Probably just lack of Divx support in hardware. Thats not a big deal, even a single core CPU of lower power can easily decode low res, low bitrate Divx. I don't consider that a flaw at all. Software decoding video like this with the XOOM's dual core A9's is trivial. Results are fine. Just need an app like RockPlayer that does it. XVID files will probably not work in hardware either.
From Motorolas website:
PLAYABLE FORMATS
AAC, H.263, H.264, MP3, MPEG-4, ACC+ Enhanced, OGG, MIDI, AMR NB, AAC+
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeh that's pretty fair I guess. How do you think it would manage if converted to MP4? I can do it on my 950 when I get home and send you it if you like? I'd not mind converting the whole lot if it played in the stock player.
I'm not an expert but I do my research and reading before I post information.
That being said, here's a little education - maybe from the wrong sources (lol) in video profiles and resolutions.
Many people want to know what the A500 can play. Currently, the answer to that is "probably not everything you have". The reason for this is HONEYCOMB, not Tegra 2. Tegra while aged, is still a pretty potent media powerhouse.
Now I shall hit you with a barrage of stats, don't worry I'll cite the sources.
First we have to know the details on what profiles are. I didn't until probably 2 days ago because frankly I didn't care, so long as it sounds good and looks crystal clear on my LCD-LED TV or Notebook, I'm a happy camper.
Profiles & Resolutions
Take a quick look at that. What you're looking at there are some examples of what profiles are. As you can see there are 3 profiles in general for the vc 1 codec. You can also see why there are profiles and the details of what each profile entails and the resolutions and bitrates of the files considered in each of them. Also consider that this is just a part of the wider audio video container file structure.
Here's a comparison of the various container formats
This is why so many people are confused really. What we're seeing right now is a big limit on what Honeycomb can play. In general, HP 1080p are pretty rare in file form because they're absolutely huge and you can barely if at all stream them over wifi even as compressed as they are. It's really exactly like pushing blu ray over wifi.
Here are common formats and extensions used by itunes/amazon and the stuff you'll find on torrents (if you do that sorta thing).
Most popular and what you probably have:
AVI Extension
MP4 Extension
MKV Extension
AVI uses most recently the H264/MP4 format which is very popular. When you hear people talking about Baseline, Main and High profiles this is what they are referring to generally. MP4 also uses this format as well as MKV. Something special about the MKV extension is that it can house almost ANY format.
Less popular and you may have a few:
RMVB
DIVX
WMA
Some of these also utilize H264/MP4 though it may cause issues. But they will generally use Mpeg4 part 2 or mpeg 2 as they are older or not necessarily striving to be top quality. Divx are generally given out with Blu Ray discs.
Hey, where's xvid?!
Xvid isn't a format at all. It's a codec for encoding in mpeg 4. So your xvid encoded stuff can be avi or mp4.
HD Flash stutters!! GAaAaAhHh!!!
Yep, it was provided as a rush job imho and enhancements in Honeycomb should provide a better experience by the time 3.1 hits. I also suspect that some things will be ironed out when we next get updates but that's not a fact, just something I think will happen. Right now, I just think media decoding was a last priority for Google. But I have no doubt they'll get around to it. What I'm saying is that flash stuttering again, isn't Tegra 2's fault. It's Honeycomb and Adobes.
480p/576p, 720p, 1080p?
If a video runs natively at 1920x1080, it is considered full HD. If 1280x720 it's full HD 720p. Under to a certain value then marketed and considered as 720p HD. Even 1280x544 or such may be considered 720p HD. As a general rule of thumb if the Frame width is 1280 or higher, it's generally considered HD. This is due to aspect ratios and such, I won't get into that as I think you get the point.
If it falls below that, it's generally not.
Now for the good stuff, What CAN Tegra 2 decode/play?
Tegra 2 Hardware [What it can play/record]
As you can see here, officially Tegra 2 is not limited to the few filetypes or profiles we're able to play currently; of course Nvidia doesn't specify detail profiles at all but it's understandable as it'd be difficult to specify profiles for every format and extension it can play. The good thing is that certain manufacturers attempt to, so I'll post that next.
Note however that almost every format is compatible, which in essence means you're covered over a number of extensions.
H.264
VC-1 AP
MPEG2
MPEG-4
DivX 4/5
XviD HT
H.263
Theora
VP8
WMV
Sorenson Spark
Real Video
VP6
Now for the ugly details. What can and can't WE do and what will we never be able to do? (Because of Tegra 2 vs. Honeycomb limitations).
I owned a Gtablet, and it was advertised as being able to play S1080p H.264/H.263/ VC-1/MPEG-2/4/WMV9/DiVX 4/5 Video.
Acer's manual states that the Iconia is able to play H.264 BP, H.264 MP, H.264 HP, MPEG-4 SP, H.263 at 720p. H264 HP = High Profile and we also are told that it's limited for now to 720p video. This is agreeably very limited right now, but you can clearly see (if your power of comparison is on key) that this is due to either the manufacturer or Honeycomb and not Tegra 2.
I was able to play everything I have including my 1920x1080 resolution stuff on my GTablet.
Because both the Xoom and Asus tablets, the only other 2 Honeycomb tablets on the market right now are in a similar predicament, I'm pointing the finger (and blame) squarely on Honeycomb being the limiting factor for us right now.
I don't think the Tegra 2 can handle very HP Full 1080p video. I don't think anything out there save for top end CPUs and dedicated blu ray players can play hardcore really high profile full 1080p and I also don't think there are many people that will have these files sitting on their PC in data form. They also can't be streamed because they're encoded so they play at higher bitrates than wifi N can handle. 20+ GB is the filesize of true high profile encoded stuff. 4GB and 8GB BR rips are generally using the Main Profile or High Profile 720p which it CAN play as well as S1080p which if you do happen to have 1080p stuff, is more than likely what you have.
Hmm, so what can the A500 play, and what can it play in the future?
We have to be careful and responsible about what we're saying here. So many people are claiming Tegra 2 to be the culprit. While Tegra 2 DOES have that limitation of not being able to play very high profile stuff, the truth is that no tablet or phone can. What people are likely miffed about is the issue of getting the "cannot play this file type" or whatever the message is and THAT isn't due to the hardware, but the software and is indeed fixable in the future.
There's no reason Froyo/Gingerbread should be able to achieve this (even on tablets) and Honeycomb not.
To say the A500 can't play HP 720p HD is therefore 100% incorrect. It can, it just is very limited about what formats it can play it in right now. To say the A500 can't play 1080p HD is correct, HOWEVER to say it's a Tegra 2 limitation is incorrect, it's a Honeycomb limitation right now.
To say Tegra 2 isn't capable of playing high profile HD is also 100% incorrect. The only real limitation is playing high profile 1080p stuff which I think only a very few people would do (considering that's an ~ 20GB big file). It's kinda like telling a True Lie or 1/2 truth? Whatever.
Update: Forgot to touch on Audio which is an important factor of this whole debacle. According to the manual, the A500 will decode AAC-LC, AAC, AAC+ (Not raw AAC), AMR-NB, AMR-WB, MP3, OGG Vorbis and WAV.
Hopefully this biblical length post will point some people in the right direction and clear up some misconceptions.
If others who know in detail about this stuff want to chime in and make the details more clear, feel free.
Been completely new to the android OS, how often does Google update their OS?
I have found that Mobo player will play most files other programs wont play.
But one thing still remains; The stuttering! Why can't it play it back smoothly? is it a bug or something or is it poorly optimized?
Hi folks,
Is there any posibility of a lagfree playing of those videos ?
It sucks watching Videos with less than 20fps...
3.1 is supposed to improve playback... just no idea if it will improve 720/1080p playback
Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk
I use Handbrake and imported these setting I found on the net.
https://sites.google.com/site/theiveryinc/a500files
That Google site is mine.
Converts all my 720p.mkv files perfectly, the only issue is the files are big, 2-4 GB, but the quality is outstanding. They even play on 'Movies' which darkens the navigation bar.
i was looking for something like this so many times before, but I never found a stable movie app. On my Samsung Galaxy S II however, it's no problem at all. And that's a freaking phone man! But it's no wonder the hole system is so fast. It makes my newly aquired Iconia looking really sluggish and outdated :-( I don't know if I gonna keep this tablet or gonna look my movies on a 4.3" screen...
I asked Acer customer support whether they're ever going to support additional formats and they replied that they won't ever add support for MKV and can't comment on the rest. So official support for MKV is out the window.
Mkv isn't a video format, it's a container. It's just that most mkv's don't contain only baseline h.264, which is the only supported video format currently. The most benefit would come from adding support for main or high profile h.264
themono said:
Mkv isn't a video format, it's a container.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know, it still doesn't help at all if the video player application or framework don't support the container format. I personally love MKV, it's handy to slap in two different audio tracks and subtitles in English, Finnish and the hearing-impaired version, plus any metadata about the movie itself. No need to hassle with several files then.
The most benefit would come from adding support for main or high profile h.264
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed. I tried transcoding a 1080p movie to 720p in constant quality mode, both in baseline and high profile modes, and while the quality was the same the high profile one used a lot less storage space. With storage space being rather scarse on mobile devices....
Well, we can only hope. But I don't know if the DSP is beefy enough to decode high profile or if it can be re-programmed to support it. Some DSPs are hardcoded and can't be used for anything other than what they already do when shipped. I don't know anything about Tegra 2 internals so I don't know what to expect.
godashram said:
3.1 is supposed to improve playback... just no idea if it will improve 720/1080p playback
Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use 3.1 atm, but there is no mentionable ddifference to 3.0.1
The nVIDIA Tegra 2 250 is fully able to hardware decode:
H.264
VC-1 AP
MPEG2
MPEG-4
DivX 4/5
XviD HT
H.263
Theora
VP8
WMV
Sorenson Spark
Real Video
VP6
and encode:
H.264
MPEG4
H.263
VP8
And this is for 1080p both enc/dec
Why ACER can't (won't) support them is beyond me! Even my Single Core 7" Samsung Galaxy TAB can play all 1080p videos I have thrown at it!
And here is the full spec of the Tegra 2 250 Link!
Is it maybe because of that, that I play these videos from my USB-HDD?
dgcxsk said:
Is it maybe because of that, that I play these videos from my USB-HDD?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can always copy one of them to the TAB and see if there is any change ( I doubt it)
Using a OLD 60gb usb hdd (literally 8 years old)
And it does not seem to matter - even with the low speed of an old external drive I have no issues playing video from it.
.Mkv -- Regardless of where it is stored is not going to work on the Iconia right now - i don't think there is anything anyone can do or change to fix that right now - the system will not?/can not? use the hardware decoder on mkv files - and software decoding, even for a low bit rate video file is always going to suck.
Hopefully 3.1 will improve our video performance - but I find it a very simple matter to just transcode a video file if the only source I have handy is mkv. Plenty of great and free tools that make the process pretty darn easy. I watch a lot of movies/TV on my a500 - and get a great experience as long as I don't throw .mkv files at it.
WereCatf said:
Indeed. I tried transcoding a 1080p movie to 720p in constant quality mode, both in baseline and high profile modes, and while the quality was the same the high profile one used a lot less storage space. With storage space being rather scarse on mobile devices....
Well, we can only hope. But I don't know if the DSP is beefy enough to decode high profile or if it can be re-programmed to support it. Some DSPs are hardcoded and can't be used for anything other than what they already do when shipped. I don't know anything about Tegra 2 internals so I don't know what to expect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My understanding is tegra2 will support h.264 high profile up to 720p @ 20mbps, but only baseline profile for 1080p.
With regard to the container format vs video format thing, I'm under the impression that container format support can be added by an app - so even if Acer never support mkv in the default player, if they do add hardware high profile h.264, then other apps should be able to play an mkv that contains high profile h.264 with hardware acceleration.
entropy.of.avarice said:
Hopefully 3.1 will improve our video performance - but I find it a very simple matter to just transcode a video file if the only source I have handy is mkv. Plenty of great and free tools that make the process pretty darn easy. I watch a lot of movies/TV on my a500 - and get a great experience as long as I don't throw .mkv files at it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From playing around with PRIMEE, mkv containers are split appropriately and if the video format is supported hardware decoding works. The problem is that there is no support for AC3 therefore majority of compatible MKVs will play very well but have no sound.
Unfortunately once software encoding is enabled we are back to the same stuttery playback issues.
I personally don't believe it's Acers' job to add playback compatibility, I personally believe it should be built into Honeycomb as a baseline. Honeycomb is a tablet OS and as such should be expected to play popular video and audio. codecs. Saying that, if manufacturers did add additional codec support it would be a solid competitive edge.
Use mobo player.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA Premium App
patterson12123 said:
Use mobo player.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you read any of the thread, running moboplayer doesn't help, as I mentioned above as soon as you enable software decoding HD MKVs start to get choppy.
hellcat82 said:
From playing around with PRIMEE, mkv containers are split appropriately and if the video format is supported hardware decoding works. The problem is that there is no support for AC3 therefore majority of compatible MKVs will play very well but have no sound.
Unfortunately once software encoding is enabled we are back to the same stuttery playback issues.
I personally don't believe it's Acers' job to add playback compatibility, I personally believe it should be built into Honeycomb as a baseline. Honeycomb is a tablet OS and as such should be expected to play popular video and audio. codecs. Saying that, if manufacturers did add additional codec support it would be a solid competitive edge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, that's good to know, so with a baseline h.264 payload an MKV will play fine on stock?
I think it probably IS Acer's job to add codec support, frankly. At the end of the day we're talking about hardware acceleration, and Android provides the software framework for that to work, and it's up to the hardware vendor to make it work with their specific hardware.
Frankly I think Nvidia should be doing it though - it'd do wonders for Tegra 2 sales if they offered up code to support hardware acceleration for their platform on Android.
I guess you didn't really do your research on video playback on Honeycomb tablets, did you?
You can not blame Acer for poor HD playback when, frankly, this is a Google/nVidia issue. Currently no 10" Honeycomb tablet can playback high profile encoded HD vides--smoothly, if at all--without reconverting said movies.
There may or may not be a *real* fix in the future (quad core Tegras are right around the corner, so...), only time will tell.
OrionBG said:
The nVIDIA Tegra 2 250 is fully able to hardware decode:
H.264
VC-1 AP
MPEG2
MPEG-4
DivX 4/5
XviD HT
H.263
Theora
VP8
WMV
Sorenson Spark
Real Video
VP6
and encode:
H.264
MPEG4
H.263
VP8
And this is for 1080p both enc/dec
Why ACER can't (won't) support them is beyond me! Even my Single Core 7" Samsung Galaxy TAB can play all 1080p videos I have thrown at it!
And here is the full spec of the Tegra 2 250 Link!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
edgie168 said:
I guess you didn't really do your research on video playback on Honeycomb tablets, did you?
You can not blame Acer for poor HD playback when, frankly, this is a Google/nVidia issue. Currently no 10" Honeycomb tablet can playback high profile encoded HD vides--smoothly, if at all--without reconverting said movies.
There may or may not be a *real* fix in the future (quad core Tegras are right around the corner, so...), only time will tell.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bought an ACER device so I'll blame them! Problem here is that the Tegra 2 chip is capable to decode and encode the formats at 1080p without problems! The fact that Google still hasn't taken advantage of this feature doesn't mean that ACER couldn't!! To back my words here is an example:
Samsung! The Galaxy S and Galaxy TAB (7") they have much superior video codec support! I'm playing 1080p movies just perfectly on the Galaxy TAB. Samsung have invested in codec support and optimized it for the platform (both Hardware and Software) The Hummingbird CPU is Single Core! So why can't ACER do it? Maybe because they never did something like this before? Maybe because the have done only the hardware till now and they don't have the programmers that can pull this of? Ones the managers at ACER understand that selling thees devices without enhancing the base that Google provides won't cut it, I think we will have a very good device (not that it isn't good now but...)
OrionBG said:
I bought an ACER device so I'll blame them!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Guess you'll have to "blame" every single manufacturer out there who have a Honeycomb tablet out too, then.
OrionBG said:
tl;dr
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So does the Samsung 10.1 play 1080p videos smoothly?
From what I've been reading.. no. Frankly, watching a 1080p on a 10" tablet is pointless (which is what I'm assuming you're crying about). If 720p isn't "good enough" on a 10" tablet, well, then, time to buy a 17" laptop.
Is it possible to play mkv format with 1080p resoloution in galaxy tab 10.1 ?
if so which players could do it?
which softwares are suitable for video convert?
and other video related soloutions for galaxy tab 10.1 to be discussed here
List of available softwares for video convert:
1-Handbrake (free)
Download page
Information page
Tutorial for 10" Display (thanks to buri73 )
2-Any Video Converter (AVC) ($29.95)
Download (trial)
Information page
3-DVD Catalyst ($9.95)
Download (trial)
Information page
4-Aiseesoft Blu ray Ripper ($39)
Download (trial)
Information page
5- ...
Recommended Video player applications on honeycomb :
1- MoboPlayer
2-...
No, and besides what's the point? The screen is not even 1080p. You can try Moboplayer and see what happens. Best advice is to recode the file down to 720p mp4. Try Handbrake or Freemake.
LordLugard said:
No, and besides what's the point? The screen is not even 1080p. You can try Moboplayer and see what happens. Best advice is to recode the file down to 720p mp4. Try Handbrake or Freemake.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont have the tablet yet but I'm going to buy and doing some research now,
how if we dont convert the file format ? is it possible to watch or is it laggy?
does the sound and the screen match?
Why would you do that?
The screen resolution is not even 1080 pixel height.
Don't you know that?
It's a waste of resources.
Try to get 720p instead.
taha_e said:
Does anyone know if it is possible to play mkv format with 1080p resoloution in galaxy tab 10.1 ?
if so which players could do it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
taha_e said:
I dont have the tablet yet but I'm going to buy and doing some research now,
how if we dont convert the file format ? is it possible to watch or is it laggy?
does the sound and the screen match?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me know what your research shows. I've been converting blu ray and mkv into 720p mp4 using DVD catalyst 4, real simple setup. From what I found out, mkv files do not work on any tablets because mkv is a container. If you convert it to mp4 then any tablet can handle it, including my phone galaxy s captivate . Takes me an average of 3-4 minutes per TV show and 10-20 on a movie. I stopped encoding at 1080p because there was not much difference other than size of file.
Sent from my GT-P7510 using XDA Premium App
they work but not with high profile settings. you need to reduce them.
you can google what high profile for mkv is.
The answers you are looking for: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1060825
mkv is not a format, its a container for H.264 format.
You should be asking "is it possible to play 1080p H.264 in the galaxy tab 10.1?"
The answer is yes BUT (and a BIG BUT) you can only do so if the H.264 file is encoded in the old H.264 baseline profile which nobody uses anymore.
Tegra 2s video accelerator is way to slow to play H.264 videos that are encoded in the popular Main/High profiles which everyone uses today. Yes its unfortunate but you have to recode all your videos to baseline profile if you want to watch on ANY tegra 2 based units.
5thElement said:
mkv is not a format, its a container for H.264 format.
You should be asking "is it possible to play 1080p H.264 in the galaxy tab 10.1?"
The answer is yes BUT (and a BIG BUT) you can only do so if the H.264 file is encoded in the old H.264 baseline profile which nobody uses anymore.
Tegra 2s video accelerator is way to slow to play H.264 videos that are encoded in the popular Main/High profiles which everyone uses today. Yes its unfortunate but you have to recode all your videos to baseline profile if you want to watch on ANY tegra 2 based units.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The tab, along with every other Honeycomb 3.1, tegra 2 device plays H.264 high profile 720p and main profile 1080p video just fine.
Although given the screen resolution, playing back 1080p video of any profile is pointless.
hoodoomagic said:
The tab, along with every other Honeycomb 3.1, tegra 2 device plays H.264 high profile 720p and main profile 1080p video just fine.
Although given the screen resolution, playing back 1080p video of any profile is pointless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct it CAN play them back but at only very low bitrate and 1080p is not pointless since you can hookup to TV or monitor via HDMI
I did some testing on bitrates for the Teg2 at 720p HP here,
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15054949&postcount=250
it does OK at 6Mb/s, and chugs when bits hit 10Mb/s. 6Mb/s avg is about the ceiling for most 720p videos, so one can generalize that the Teg2, at HC3.1, will play a fair number of 720 H264 HP videos (in MP4 format). Ruminations are that HC3.2 will speed things up a bit further.
The clip, along with others, are here if anyone wants to try them:
http://www.mediafire.com/?depxt4zyvpwel
I've played with h.264 video on the Gtab, Use Baseline profile for best results. I've done some encoding in High Profile, and baseline, and compared screen captures, and you can't tell the difference, it has mostly to do with Compression, the higher your Profile (Ref Frames, B Frames, CABAC) the smaller your video file will be without suffering Quality lose. Just that higher profile requires more horsepower to decode, which Tegra 2 does not have.
hmm samsung should have gone with the SGS II guts. It plays pretty much whatever you throw at it
ph00ny said:
hmm samsung should have gone with the SGS II guts. It plays pretty much whatever you throw at it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honeycomb only supports Tegra 2 CPUs. HC 3.2 brings support for Qualcomm CPUs. I could only wish this thing had the SGSII CPU.
Yeah, much as I like my Tab, I always feel like I'm taking a step back when I use it after using my SGS2...both in speed and display. I'd queue up in the pouring rain for a week to get a SAMOLED tablet.
5thElement said:
mkv is not a format, its a container for H.264 format.
Tegra 2s video accelerator is way to slow to play H.264 videos that are encoded in the popular Main/High profiles which everyone uses today. Yes its unfortunate but you have to recode all your videos to baseline profile if you want to watch on ANY tegra 2 based units.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which explains why I am playing 720p24 high profile h.264 with no problems. Oh. Wait. No it doesn't.
Tegra 2 can handle high profile fine at 720p as long as you avoid wighted p frames. However the stock player does not. Enter diceplayer, built on the NDK and supporting all T2 decode capabilities. The stock player is totally borked.
1080p however is another problem. But you'll probably hit the fat32 4GB file size limit with those anyway before you encounter issues with high profile content. None of my 1080p MKVs will fit on the device anyway due to the fat32 limitation, so transcoding it pretty much a given. So I tend to go to 540p or even 480p just to save space. The screen is small, and while I can tell the diffeence between a clean 720p encode and 480p it doesn't bother me in this scenario. And if you drop down to 480p weighted p frames work again.
So, essentially Mr. Element, you don't what the hell you're talking about.
Sent from my GT-P7510 using XDA Premium App
I can only support what ianken said. I can play 720p hig profile just fine with Diceplayer.
Here is a test clip to see on your own. http://www.multiupload.com/CJU6YB5JC3
It is in High 4.1 Format
just thought id let you know it does play 720p mkv files just fine (tested on my galaxy 7" with no skipping or slowness at all) assuming since it works on the 7" the 10" wouldnt have any issues with it.
Danstek said:
Honeycomb only supports Tegra 2 CPUs. HC 3.2 brings support for Qualcomm CPUs. I could only wish this thing had the SGSII CPU.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not entire true since manufacturers can add their own drivers to the OS
I highly doubt gingerbread is tailored to a single platform
bilsmaks said:
just thought id let you know it does play 720p mkv files just fine (tested on my galaxy 7" with no skipping or slowness at all) assuming since it works on the 7" the 10" wouldnt have any issues with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm can play 720p high profile without any issues on Galaxy S Captivated. Gtab 10.1 and other HC tablets are using tegra2, that has some issues playing mkv high profile 720p. So far maker of diceplayer are the only one who have figured out how to make use of tegra2 to decode high profile 720p.
Sent from my GT-P7510 using XDA Premium App