Database Users

Stop killing android carriers

Cnet just put up a review of the Motorola Atrix, one of the most anticipated smart-phones. AT&T has blocked the ability to download 3rd party apps . "You can't install third-party apps" and goes on to say "No change of heart on third-party applications, as that feature is disabled on the Atrix."
Google's(andy rubin) response is to say let me market decide. I truly agree with this statement but when the carriers are in power (two year contracts) it doesn't let the market work. General consumers dont know know the difference between android phones. Consumer assume since they are getting an android phone, all android phones are the same. This blocking of 3rd party apps creates a bad user experience and users will blame android and not the carriers.
( http://reviews.cnet.com/smartphones/motorola-atrix-4g-at/4505-6452_7-34468396.html?tag=rvwBody )

Moved to Atrix General

babluc said:
when the carriers are in power (two year contracts) it doesn't let the market work.
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ITA.
Looking on the slighter brighter side, CNET also said this (emphasis added):
Of course, you've also got your obligatory AT&T services--AT&T Navigator, AT&T FamilyMap, and AT&T U-Verse Live TV--on there, but for once, you can actually uninstall any of these apps if you wish.
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It's not enough, but it's a start.

Side loading apps is such a trivial issue on any device, including devices on AT&T. Root not even required. So for the tiny percentage that want to do this (like rooters) the option is there.

No Third party software? No "FREE" bootloader? No reasonable laptop dock price? It really destroyed the purpose of open-sourced software.....I guess AT&T kills the fun of having an Android phone.....I went from "must have one" to "might have one"...sigh.....

My last 3 phones were not purchased from AT&T because of similar issues. AT&T modifies the phone to disable installation of anything not coming from their store.
I've been considering switching to a different provider because I find it very expensive to buy unlocked phones just to get them in their enabled state. I know I would lose the flexibility of using the phone around the world, but I don't travel that much.
Is Verizon doing this same thing on their phones? If not I may consider switching to them. How about Sprint?

sp_1st_timer said:
My last 3 phones were not purchased from AT&T because of similar issues. AT&T modifies the phone to disable installation of anything not coming from their store.
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AT&T restricts third-party apps, which means you can download only from the Android Market - which is not AT&T's store, btw.
Is Verizon doing this same thing on their phones? If not I may consider switching to them. How about Sprint?
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As far as I know, AT&T is the only one of the 4 major carriers that blocks 3rd-party apps. As previously mentioned, getting around that restriction is extremely simple and does not require rooting the phone. The Sideload Wonder Machine, for one, is very easy to use.

has no one in here heard of the side-load wondermachine come on seriously when theres a will theres a way thats my way around att crap O rama

shadowscreation said:
has no one in here heard of the side-load wondermachine come on seriously when theres a will theres a way thats my way around att crap O rama
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The point is we shouldn't have to find ways around it, and buying these devices only says that it's OK to at&t.

eallan said:
The point is we shouldn't have to find ways around it, and buying these devices only says that it's OK to at&t.
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i know what your saying.but considering this is one of atts top o the line phones minus the bs tethering plan for laptop dock(totally ruined that for me by the way). im just hoping that the bootloader isnt crapped up im gonna wait a little bit on buying this till i know theres a way to custom rom the crap out of this phone so ya thats what im waiting on before i decide i want this phone or not if not owell there will be better ones later on this year im sure so guess we will see how this all works out
note to everyone i like grammatical errors and run-on sentences thats what makes life fun

babluc said:
AT&T has blocked the ability to download 3rd party apps
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Relax... thats what xda is for.

peachpuff said:
Relax... thats what xda is for.
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No kidding. Do you really need to get your panties in a wad about sideloading? That's like complaining that it doesn't come rooted from the factory.

peachpuff said:
Relax... thats what xda is for.
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Yes i get that but im talking about common users. Common users will not use XDA or root there phone. Im also not talking just about just this phone. When carriers do stuff like this, it effects how people view android and its ease of use.

babluc said:
Yes i get that but im talking about common users. Common users will not use XDA or root there phone. Im also not talking just about just this phone. When carriers do stuff like this, it effects how people view android and its ease of use.
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Common users aren't going to be side loading to begin with. If its not in the market they aren't going to care. If they care they can google it and find XDA or the plethora of other sites that detail the simple few step process.
i agree it shouldn't be an issue, it is and its an easy fix so I don't worry about it. Efuse is a bigger issue to development that this. If it does have efuse I won't buy it out of principal and I'll get an inspire.

Aridon said:
Common users aren't going to be side loading to begin with. If its not in the market they aren't going to care. If they care they can google it and find XDA or the plethora of other sites that detail the simple few step process.
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Agreed. Anyone who wants to sideload can figure it out. Its probably the easiest hack you could possibly do on your Android phone.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

I know I found out about the side-load wonder machine long before I found XDA. But it just wasn't enough for my Captivate lol. Always wanted more.

DumIam said:
I know I found out about the side-load wonder machine long before I found XDA. But it just wasn't enough for my Captivate lol. Always wanted more.
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And the Cappy always needs more! Here's to hoping the Atrix doesn't.
At least in the performance realm, it doesn't seem too need much help from hacks. Although I'm looking forward to seeing what can be accomplished...

This phone is a powerful machine to begin with. I will be happy once I can root just to delete any bloatware that I can't delete out the box. Sideloading will be nice too..
I just don't like the Motorola interface, launcher pro will be my first install..
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App

I have decided pass on the Atrix due to pricing tech concerns. I am looking forward to the samsung i9100.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

OTA Released (Root for manual update) - Flash on Market MAR18 (Leaked)

Motorola XOOM users on the Verizon Wireless network: starting tonight, a maintenance release is rolling out to you in phases, so watch for a notification on your device that will tell you when it’s ready for download. The update includes required enhancements to support Adobe® Flash® Player 10.2 (coming soon); it also includes a fix for a bug we identified with Daylight Savings time, so be sure to install it!
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No flash, just support for it... http://www.facebook.com/motorola
Update: Flash 10.2 announced release on market MAR18 http://blogs.adobe.com/flashplayer/2011/03/update-on-flash-player-10-2-for-mobile-devices.html
And, Flash leaked! http://www.multiupload.com/5FOUMVZI32
Manual OTA instructions via Koush (ROOT REQUIRED): http://www.koushikdutta.com/2011/03/manually-updating-your-rooted-xoom.html

well, maybe this will fix my wierd clock issue today... hmmm

At least this shows how quickly updates will come... I guess.

how will us with wifi only get this?

Any update is good news at this point I think. I wonder if there is any harm in updating, ie will it remove the ability to root and what not? I wish they would provide more details on what exactly the patch does. Also, it clearly says on the Verizon network, what about those not on it and are only on wifi?
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App

Sirchuk said:
Any update is good news at this point I think. I wonder if there is any harm in updating, ie will it remove the ability to root and what not? I wish they would provide more details on what exactly the patch does. Also, it clearly says on the Verizon network, what about those not on it and are only on wifi?
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
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MY droid always popped up updates even when I was only on wifi. I imagine we'll all get it or someone will post the update.zip anyway.

I'm curious if the Tegra 2 versions of flash (10.1) floating around will have something to interact with, and start functioning. They have with everything else. As soon as I get the OTA (no 3G), I have a folder full of them in my Dropbox.

AndyMan386 said:
how will us with wifi only get this?
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Through WiFi?

Droid-Life has some more details.
http://www.droid-life.com/2011/03/1...tonight-includes-adobe-flash-10-2/#more-28145

Why cant people do more research?
Wifi only will get the update too...
http://www.droid-life.com/2011/03/1...olling-out-tonight-includes-adobe-flash-10-2/

Has anyone figured out how to force a check in on the Xoom?

Inphinitizeit said:
Has anyone figured out how to force a check in on the Xoom?
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Question of the day. No dialer :/

yesssssssssssss

Glad to see an update but there is nothing listed to get excited about except a possible problem with the upcoming daylight savings time switch. Who cares about the flash update since it does not actually include it. But this will be a good test run to see how the updates are sent out and applied.

Cann't wait for the update to start

ZanshinG1 said:
Question of the day. No dialer :/
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You can force a check by rebooting. Not the best method, but it works.

Why do unlocked xooms need to get relocked?
I understand why you need to be on stock boot.img but i don't understand why you need to have the device relocked to get the update.
It makes no sense.

ZanshinG1 said:
You can force a check by rebooting. Not the best method, but it works.
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According to the system update tab this didn't happen in 3 reboots since the announcement. Still last check at 5:20. Really want to see if any of the 10.1 Tegra versions work after this. I've been frantic to have Flash lately (PlayOn/Netflix).
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App

morbos said:
According to the system update tab this didn't happen in 3 reboots since the announcement. Still last check at 5:20. Really want to see if any of the 10.1 Tegra versions work after this. I've been frantic to have Flash lately (PlayOn/Netflix).
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It might have a minimum time between checkins. Mine said 9:20am, then showed current time for last checkin when I rebooted.

So would it be fair to say that those of us who have rooted should wait until this update is released to see if in fact we really do need to revert back to stock/locked condition? Because I'd really be pissed if we had to lose all of the data on our Xooms just for this update, when very few of us have actually changed anything with the boot.img, etc. I mean back when I first rooted my N1 but before I flashed custom ROMs, I never had to wipe back to stock to receive OTA updates, so why would that be the case here??

Motorola's Atrix 4G is now the top seller at Amazon Wireless

Here:
http://wireless.amazon.com

Great!!!
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App

CyberPunk7t9 said:
Here:
http://wireless.amazon.com
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And in less than 30 days, probably the top return item - if for no other reason than the fact that all those amazon customers won't be able to load the amazon app market. Quite ironic. If not that then: it'll be the locked bootloader, no root, locked at&t marketplace, no HSUPA+, double whammy on tethering. Sheesh!

Jim_R said:
And in less than 30 days, probably the top return item - if for no other reason than the fact that all those amazon customers won't be able to load the amazon app market. Quite ironic. If not that then: it'll be the locked bootloader, no root, locked at&t marketplace, no HSUPA+, double whammy on tethering. Sheesh!
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thanks debbie downer! =P

Jim_R said:
And in less than 30 days, probably the top return item - if for no other reason than the fact that all those amazon customers won't be able to load the amazon app market. Quite ironic. If not that then: it'll be the locked bootloader, no root, locked at&t marketplace, no HSUPA+, double whammy on tethering. Sheesh!
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What are you trying to say, you can't root this device at all?...

ccrows said:
What are you trying to say, you can't root this device at all?...
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Click to collapse
you can root, and pretty easily at that.

Jim_R said:
And in less than 30 days, probably the top return item - if for no other reason than the fact that all those amazon customers won't be able to load the amazon app market. Quite ironic. If not that then: it'll be the locked bootloader, no root, locked at&t marketplace, no HSUPA+, double whammy on tethering. Sheesh!
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Click to collapse
Except bootloader, rest all are ATT restrictions which are there for other phones as well. Plus there are no new ATT phones announced to be released in next 30 days. So i guess we can hope for some of those issues to be resolved as Atrix is gonno be the best phone on ATT for a while.

Is it carrier unlock?

Dunno why you wouldn't be able to load the Amazon App Market.... unless that requires rooting.... which as mentioned, is easy enough to do. Also not sure what you mean about the locked AT&T marketplace. HSUPA should be ready by the end of April according to AT&T. And.... how is there a double-whammy on tethering?

dLo GSR said:
you can root, and pretty easily at that.
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Are there any root/unroot apps that you can do from your phone itself like "Easy Root" for the Milestone or do have to use your computer and cable?...

ccrows said:
Are there any root/unroot apps that you can do from your phone itself like "Easy Root" for the Milestone or do have to use your computer and cable?...
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all the answers you need are in the dev forum.

The Atrix can be rooted and you can load amazon app market. The only down side of the phone is the locked bootloader which for the average user that wont matter. All that matters is root for the average user
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App

Actually, stock out of the box sideloading is blocked, and right now (AT&T claims to be looking for a 'fix') there is no access to the amazon marketplace. Just like there is no access to Citibank's online banking app (not in AT&T market). These impact the average user directly. No screen capture, and no backing up the phone except via 'the cloud'. More impacts to the average user. As to rooting, the only way is to use exploits that were in the original 4.1.2.6, and then play a shell game with root access when OTA upgrading to 4.1.5.7 - the exploits that allowed root access were closed in 4.1.5.7 by Motorola. Don't get me wrong, I really like the Atrix and it's capabilities; I just can't stand everything that's been done to hamstring those same capabilities. Here's another major impact to the average user - it's been locked down to 3G only speeds. Anybody want to bet that the Atrix will not get HSUPA+ before 2013, if ever? I'll admit it - I was suckered into buying this phone by the name, Atrix 4G. And it's not even a LTE phone dammit!

Jim_R said:
Actually, stock out of the box sideloading is blocked,
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I understand where you are coming from, but this statement is inaccurate. Sideloading is not blocked, non-market apps (directly from the device) are. You can sideload non-market apps from your PC, you just can't sideload them from your SD card (for example).

Can't decide if I should root my atrix or not

Hi there,
I am debating if I should root my Atrix or not. I checked out few posts and they seem a bit complecated. Also, I found this article saying carriers will track down rooted devices and restricted services.
By the way, can I still install some of Motorola o/s for dock stations? I have a multimedia and a car dock.
http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...rooting-manufacturers-carriers.html#post65013
Any thoughts?

No one will track you down and restrict you. And it's very safe to root.
Just for apps like Adfree which kills advertisements, this is reason enough for me to root! Not to mention super helpful things like customer recovery to back things up, the ability to sideload (install non-market apps if you're on AT&T), etc.
Android is quite open source but rooting opens up another amazing realm of extremely essential apps.

bongd said:
No one will track you down and restrict you. And it's very safe to root.
Just for apps like Adfree which kills advertisements, this is reason enough for me to root! Not to mention super helpful things like customer recovery to back things up, the ability to sideload (install non-market apps if you're on AT&T), etc.
Android is quite open source but rooting opens up another amazing realm of extremely essential apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will take your word for it then! Just kidding. Would you be able recommend any good root techniques on the forum? I think there are few methods and am not sure which one is the best.
Thank you!

I say root it. I rooted mine and i love it this way. I had mine for only two days before I rooted it. I was a little nervous at first and felt that i really didnt want to do it, but the benefits were too great with a rooted phone than without a rooted phone. I am on the AT&T network and i hate it when someone tries to tell me what I can't do with something I purchased. Trust me when i say that you are going to want software that is not in the market as well.
And... I really, really love the fact that I don't need to be docked to use my WebTop.
Again... i say root it.

janggu said:
I will take your word for it then! Just kidding. Would you be able recommend any good root techniques on the forum? I think there are few methods and am not sure which one is the best.
Thank you!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gladroot. It's the easiest and can enable tethering and sideloading as well.
You must be on 1.2.6 to root. You can run their first script which will root it. You can then do AT&T's download and run their second script which will root that too. BOOM!
It shouldn't take any longer than 10 minutes.

Well... there was that one thing where AT&T is supposedly locking out, or might be locking out phones that have been determined to be rooted. But the fact of the matter is, if they do that with absolutely no reason other than the phone being rooted, i'm sure you'll see a class action lawsuit about it since rooting/jailbreaking a cell phone is legal now according to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. The only reason i can see them disabling service is if you root it, and use one of the alternate methods of tethering, and wind up using a TON of bandwidth.... well over what anyone would even remotely do on just the phone if they didn't have any tethering package or way to tether. Then you'd basically be using their networks in a way that could be deemed illegal. But there's no issue with just rooting it to use applications not approved by the carrier or phone manufacturer.

Would you want to be admin on your own computer?

I think rooting is a must. The use of sideloading alone is worth it. I would hate to not be able to use the Amazon Appstore, Ive really come to like it.
One thing to mention though. The Blockbuster app detects root and wont allow content to be purchased because of DRM concerns. I dont know if this will be a problem with future apps.

Yeah, I did!
I rooted my Atrix with "gladroot" last night. Can't wait to customize it now.
Thank you very much for your valid inputs everyone!!!

Where are these non market apps that everyone speaks of
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App

JohnnyDanger said:
One thing to mention though. The Blockbuster app detects root....
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What's Blockbuster? ;-)
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App

I know right. I was just using that as an example. Never know what might be blocked next.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App

possibly the end of nexus geting updates directly from google

http://www.droid-life.com/2011/11/1...ak-in-two-bloatware-apps-on-the-galaxy-nexus/

silver03wrx said:
http://www.droid-life.com/2011/11/1...ak-in-two-bloatware-apps-on-the-galaxy-nexus/
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Not necessarily. Those apps might not be integrated into the rom.

poit said:
Not necessarily. Those apps might not be integrated into the rom.
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Click to collapse
They are. The pics are in the galaxy nexus general forums. This killed my dream of getting a Nexus phone...... Will the international version work on Sprint???
Sent from my 1.6 ghz 3.2 rockin A500

Qwallace70129 said:
They are. The pics are in the galaxy nexus general forums. This killed my dream of getting a Nexus phone...... Will the international version work on Sprint???
Sent from my 1.6 ghz 3.2 rockin A500
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Click to collapse
I think what he meant is that those apps aren't put there until after the rom is installed, meaning Verizon put them there.
You make your statement with such certainty, yet provide nothing to back it up - why are you so sure?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

The pics show it...... ICS has a built in uninstaller/disable feature...... There is no option to uninstall or delete.... Only disable... Meaning its cooked into the rom(if I've learned correctly) which also means all updates have to go through Verizon. No bueno for a Nexus phone....
Sent from my 1.6 ghz 3.2 rockin A500

Qwallace70129 said:
The pics show it...... ICS has a built in uninstaller/disable feature...... There is no option to uninstall or delete.... Only disable... Meaning its cooked into the rom(if I've learned correctly) which also means all updates have to go through Verizon. No bueno for a Nexus phone....
Sent from my 1.6 ghz 3.2 rockin A500
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Click to collapse
As long as Google pushed the update with a data backup, it shouldn't be an issue, correct? Google would update everything except carrier apps. Carrier could update them like the way Sprint updated Sprint Navigation to Telenav or some other delivery method.

Qwallace70129 said:
The pics show it...... ICS has a built in uninstaller/disable feature...... There is no option to uninstall or delete.... Only disable... Meaning its cooked into the rom(if I've learned correctly) which also means all updates have to go through Verizon. No bueno for a Nexus phone....
Sent from my 1.6 ghz 3.2 rockin A500
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Click to collapse
I think that only means that the app is installed into the system app directory, instead of the user app dir. I suppose I will have to adb push an apk into my system app folder to confirm, but I'm fairly certain that the lack of an uninstall button is because android never gives that option for system apps...
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

styles420 said:
I think that only means that the app is installed into the system app directory, instead of the user app dir. I suppose I will have to adb push an apk into my system app folder to confirm, but I'm fairly certain that the lack of an uninstall button is because android never gives that option for system apps...
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
Please say it would be that easy.... But then again it defeats the purpose of me buying a nexus if I have to get rid of bloatware.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium

Supposed to be a developer platform....what developer is going to want VZ Backup assistant...lol.
Verizon: You are dumb.
Oh well, I still believe it will be google updated.

Guys, in ICS there is a feature in which you can hide the apps.
Also i dont think this really matters. The two apps included are something verizon users may want. Looking at your status with the company and backing up information with the carrier hardly seem like bloat apps to me. Also, this is only the case for verizon and not other carriers like sprint, which can uninstall bloatware apps. I still believe google will be pushing out their own updates.
Sent from my Galaxy Tab 10.1

I'm a little curious why this would discourage anyone here from owning this phone. Are any of you guys buying it with the intention of running stock?

Even if people plan on using cooked roms they still want google to push the updates because that means they would come quicker and therefore the developers would have new versions to create new roms off of.
See. I am learnimg.
Sent from my Epic on Legandary ROM or my Galaxy Tab rooted (feels naked without a ROM)

|| Acer || said:
Guys, in ICS there is a feature in which you can hide the apps.
Also i dont think this really matters. The two apps included are something verizon users may want. Looking at your status with the company and backing up information with the carrier hardly seem like bloat apps to me. Also, this is only the case for verizon and not other carriers like sprint, which can uninstall bloatware apps. I still believe google will be pushing out their own updates.
Sent from my Galaxy Tab 10.1
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Verizon users that want them could just install them though! that's the complete opposite of them being installed and people who don't want them being unable to uninstall them...

faceless said:
Verizon users that want them could just install them though! that's the complete opposite of them being installed and people who don't want them being unable to uninstall them...
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Click to collapse
The Verizon customers that don't want them are almost certainly going to know at least enough to be able to remove them, but many of the users that would want them would also fall into that special category of users that know just the bare minimum to be able to use the phone - average users, the ones even XDA noobs can run circles around. They make up the majority of Verizon's customer base, so the big V will cater to them. (They're also a lot more likely to pay for things that can be had for free, because they're a lot less likely to know that those things can be free... it's a two-fold win for any service provider)
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Simply put, google can still update the phone.

I don't understand how the OP jumped to the conclusion he did. How does two "bloatware" apps point to "the end of nexus geting [sic] updates directly from google"?
Nonsensical, I tell you!

AmericanJedi001 said:
I don't understand how the OP jumped to the conclusion he did. How does two "bloatware" apps point to "the end of nexus geting [sic] updates directly from google"?
Nonsensical, I tell you!
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Click to collapse
I think this is the logic:
When a phone gets major customization from a carrier such as Sense or Touchwiz, it complicates the updates and delays updates due to additional testing and debugging needed on these customized ROMS. People are assuming that is the reason why US carriers get updates so much later than the much more plain European versions. So, the OP assumes that adding two Verizon apps is somehow as complex a modification as adding Touchwiz, therefor it will delay the release of jellybean, or whatever the next version will be called.
Seems pretty silly to me.

poit said:
I think this is the logic:
When a phone gets major customization from a carrier such as Sense or Touchwiz, it complicates the updates and delays updates due to additional testing and debugging needed on these customized ROMS. People are assuming that is the reason why US carriers get updates so much later than the much more plain European versions. So, the OP assumes that adding two Verizon apps is somehow as complex a modification as adding Touchwiz, therefor it will delay the release of jellybean, or whatever the next version will be called.
Seems pretty silly to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I was trying to say all along. Thank you.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App