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Bought one of these guys to hardwire a charger in my car:
http://www.mountguys.com/product_p/mfx5v-b-micro.htm
On the charger is specifies 5V 1500mA output. Is that ok? I know it's more than stock, but I thought circuitry can step it down if needed.
Also, I'm thinking I want to hardwire to the always hot lead that goes to the radio memory function. Any chance of current problems? Don't think it will drain my battery if I leave it charging while shopping (or at the bar)
Thanks.

I'm curious why you chose to hardwire it, when the device can only pull 700mA, and these little wonders work perfectly.

Nice! Got one of these also... twice the ports and 5X the price:
http://www.amazon.com/Griffin-Powerjolt-Dual-Universal-Micro/dp/B0042B9U8Q/ref=pd_cp_e_2
Yours and mine above specify 1A... this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Charger-Samsu...96/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1318442293&sr=8-15
2.1 A.
I just wanted a cleaner look in a little sports car... the hardwire is going to come out the panel and go straight to a dock. But now I'm worried that 1500 mA could be troublesome?

It won't be troublesome, just useless.
I have a setup for my iPod that utilizes one of what I linked. I've got a USB+RCA-to-dock cable running into my center console, then into a port in there, to some empty space in front of it (under the trim, totally invisible) where my audio guys spliced a new line into the RCA jacks that came from the factory, and split off another power line. The charger's in there, cable connects to the ports... It's nice and clean.

this should be fine. the amperage rating on a charger just tells what it is capable of if requested. it is up to the phone itself to provide the requested amount of current. that is to say if this charger can provide 1500mA, but our phones can only use 750mA, your good. it is provided all the current it needs. now on the other hand, if you were charging some device that could use 2000mA(unheard of) this charger would provide all it could, the device would just charge slower.
the voltage is fine. most chargers are rated at 5v, and should be spot on as long as it is a decent brand from a trusted source. a knock off may be out of spec to what it is rated. that is where you could run in to trouble with frying a phone.
anyway, besides all that, this seems risky. not hardwiring a charger to your car, but leaving it there while you are shopping or in the bar. ever heard that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure? id hate to come out of a bar to a broken window and no phone...
i never leave my phone unattended outside of my home.

austin420 said:
some device that could use 2000mA(unheard of)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iPad, TouchPad, Galaxy Tab 10.1...

Guess I'm a noob.. very detailed answer in FAQ.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=802711&highlight=voltage+amps+charger
Now to find out if those pins are shorted...

A doubt about htc charger.

I have an hd 2 and its a used one when i bought it. So i dont get the original charger. I got a samsung charger @ 5v, 700ma. But when i connect it, the phone shows usb detected. Though its charging, its pretty slow, i think the usb mode makes it. Taking only few 100-300ma only. And the charging takes long. I know htc need 1amp charger. But i cant get it here. So i decided to rip the charger and make some modifications ( like grounding or shorting the data pins- the middle two) . So i need a little help. Any of you guys having an htc original charger pls help me. Howz the data pins connected in the original charger? Are they shorted together or they are open? Or they are grounded? Pls help me those who know abot it. I want to make my charger form usb charging to default charging. It badly needed
send from my hd2 @ miui 1.12.2

That's weird. I've got original Samsung 0.7A charger here and HTC Desire HD does detect it as charger aswell and takes 1A from it. Shortening datapins together does usually convince most of phones that they are connected to wall charger. Maybe it's not the case for HD2.

Samsung Galaxy Phone Rapid Charger Modcheck this thread few under yours... speaking of shorting data pins.

HD2 is same as most, requires 2 data pins to be shorted together (2 inner pins).
Easy mod on most charger units. If charger is a cheap china job, the quoted 700mA figure could be optimistic ... temporary mod it by shorting data pins together & see how it performs ...

But there are 3 pins and not 4. So which ones are the middle?
send from my hd2 @ miui 1.12.2

Can you supply a good picture of this.

showlyshah said:
But there are 3 pins and not 4. So which ones are the middle?
send from my hd2 @ miui 1.12.2
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Click to collapse
Sorry thatz an error. I mean 5 pin and not 4. All the pins are present( which are prsent in data cable)
send from my hd2 @ miui 1.12.2

Maybe this will help ...

Is it microusb?
You're supposed to shorten D+ and D-, but rather in charger. ;P

Mister B said:
Maybe this will help ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is that micro usb?
send from my hd2 @ miui 1.12.2

Thakz dude
send from my hd2 @ miui 1.12.2

@ mister b and rebelloz ..
Thankz dude. I will click thankx button when i get to pc. Now i am frm phone
send from my hd2 @ miui 1.12.2

Very useful guide as I am facing the same problem. Thanks.

Useful guide i am also facing the same problem...

can anyone confirm if it worked for them? I made an adapter by shorting both data leads, but it didn't work for me. My phone will charge when switched off, but when it's on with both gps and data running, it barely gets enough current to charge the battery. Only my original cable works.

stanburn said:
can anyone confirm if it worked for them? I made an adapter by shorting both data leads, but it didn't work for me. My phone will charge when switched off, but when it's on with both gps and data running, it barely gets enough current to charge the battery. Only my original cable works.
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What device?
Signalling a dumb charger with MiniUSB (as opposed to MicroUSB) is less standardized. On most MiniUSB devices it's done by shorting pin 4 to pin 5, but it varies.

I could be wrong about this (someone please correct me if I am), but I believe the transformer inside the charger will need physically replacing if you're going to be pulling more current from it. If it's not too much over the charger's rated current it may be ok, but I've burned up more than one of them by hooking it up to something that draws more than what they were designed for.

xHausx said:
I could be wrong about this (someone please correct me if I am), but I believe the transformer inside the charger will need physically replacing if you're going to be pulling more current from it. If it's not too much over the charger's rated current it may be ok, but I've burned up more than one of them by hooking it up to something that draws more than what they were designed for.
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Depends as part of the reason of the mod is to achieve full power draw of a acceptable rated charger by making the phone think it is connected to HTC charger & thus charge at mains rate of 1A or a little above rather than USB standard of 500mA. Most chargers of reasonable quality will supply 800mA to 1.2A & if you buy wisely a bit higher.
Issue arises on cheap china chargers with false specs that actually only handle 500mA & perhaps 800mA max for short bursts but when these are forced to supply more will fail.
A good quality charger will have no problem supplying full charge to a HTC handset ...

A good example - getting a non-iDevice to pull its full rated charge current from an iPad charger (charger rated 2.1A, but nothing but iDevices will pull any more than 500 mA from it without modifications.)
A good example of cheap Chinese chargers - the "1A" chargers carried by Monoprice. They're good for 300-400 mA at best. You won't burn them out as it's a fundamental current limit setting of the SMPS chip, but the voltage will droop if you try to pull too much out of it. It's the only Monoprice product I've ever been disappointed with.

Originally Posted by stanburn
can anyone confirm if it worked for them? I made an adapter by shorting both data leads, but it didn't work for me. My phone will charge when switched off, but when it's on with both gps and data running, it barely gets enough current to charge the battery. Only my original cable works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What device?
Signalling a dumb charger with MiniUSB (as opposed to MicroUSB) is less standardized. On most MiniUSB devices it's done by shorting pin 4 to pin 5, but it varies.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry about that, I have the HD2. if I use the replacement cable with both data lines I shorted, it never charges when the phone is running. but if I swap my original cable the phone charges normally.
it's as though it ignores the shorted data lines, or maybe the HD2 doesn't really work that way?
I'm worried because my original cable is beginning to show signs of wear and tear.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA

No Charger In The Box?

Has anybody noticed that the Play store listing for the Nexus 10 only lists the tablet?
Maybe they wanted to save a few bucks and figured that we'd all have phones with a charger cable already, but it's kinda lame that we'd be paying $400+ for a tablet and we won't even be getting a charger with it. I'm going to have to buy a separate cable for it myself; I kinda want to charge both my tablet and my GNexus at the same time.

Dr_Knickers said:
Has anybody noticed that the Play store listing for the Nexus 10 only lists the tablet?
Maybe they wanted to save a few bucks and figured that we'd all have phones with a charger cable already, but it's kinda lame that we'd be paying $400+ for a tablet and we won't even be getting a charger with it. I'm going to have to buy a separate cable for it myself; I kinda want to charge both my tablet and my GNexus at the same time.
Click to expand...
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I would hope that the listing isn't completed for the box because it's not out yet. I'm hoping that it uses a 2A charger, in which case most people don't have so they would supply it.

Despyse said:
I would hope that the listing isn't completed for the box because it's not out yet. I'm hoping that it uses a 2A charger, in which case most people don't have so they would supply it.
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Click to collapse
It follows the policy for Amazon Kindle HD 8.9, where no charger is included but it includes the micro USB charging wire. Also, Nexus 4 includes all the accessories including charging wire and the charger.
Best regards,

Dr_Knickers said:
Has anybody noticed that the Play store listing for the Nexus 10 only lists the tablet?
Maybe they wanted to save a few bucks and figured that we'd all have phones with a charger cable already, but it's kinda lame that we'd be paying $400+ for a tablet and we won't even be getting a charger with it. I'm going to have to buy a separate cable for it myself; I kinda want to charge both my tablet and my GNexus at the same time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll be amazed if they don't supply a charger, i think it more a case of they are not listing it because of regional differences, I got a Sony Xperia S Tablet and noticed that the charging accessories changed for different countries, some would have just a socket to usb convertor, but i got like a mini laptop AC brick as we use 240v in the UK, not 120, so best to just leave it off for now.
I will be interested to see if they charge through the microUSB or via a magnetic charger as standard, and if they charge from MicroUSB, how much the magnetic charger would be

MikeBuck said:
I'll be amazed if they don't supply a charger, i think it more a case of they are not listing it because of regional differences, I got a Sony Xperia S Tablet and noticed that the charging accessories changed for different countries, some would have just a socket to usb convertor, but i got like a mini laptop AC brick as we use 240v in the UK, not 120, so best to just leave it off for now.
I will be interested to see if they charge through the microUSB or via a magnetic charger as standard, and if they charge from MicroUSB, how much the magnetic charger would be
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Click to collapse
Yeah, thankfully you're right :victory:
I can see the charger in these pictures!
http://www.engadget.com/photos/nexus-10-review/#5408320

Dr_Knickers said:
Yeah, thankfully you're right :victory:
I can see the charger in these pictures!
http://www.engadget.com/photos/nexus-10-review/#5408320
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was going to link that photo gallery. Looks like the same exact 2-piece AC adapter the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 uses.

MikeBuck said:
I'll be amazed if they don't supply a charger, i think it more a case of they are not listing it because of regional differences, I got a Sony Xperia S Tablet and noticed that the charging accessories changed for different countries, some would have just a socket to usb convertor, but i got like a mini laptop AC brick as we use 240v in the UK, not 120, so best to just leave it off for now.
I will be interested to see if they charge through the microUSB or via a magnetic charger as standard, and if they charge from MicroUSB, how much the magnetic charger would be
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does the Nexus 10 support wireless charging too? That's pretty cool if so. I think about now is the cue for IKEA and the like to start producing high-end tables which automatically charge anything on top of them. Then you can truly be wireless (well, the table would have to be plugged in, but the odds are you could hide the wire from sight). Since the table is powered, they might as well give it a backlit surface, too. Now that would be a table.

Kookas said:
Does the Nexus 10 support wireless charging too? That's pretty cool if so. I think about now is the cue for IKEA and the like to start producing high-end tables which automatically charge anything on top of them. Then you can truly be wireless (well, the table would have to be plugged in, but the odds are you could hide the wire from sight). Since the table is powered, they might as well give it a backlit surface, too. Now that would be a table.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've not heard anything about it, and Google would be shouting about it if it did, so i'd say it doesn't unfortunately.

Car charging (or not in this case) how to monitor?

Little help chaps.
Ok i've just bought this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390566738301
I presumed (not sure if rightly or wrongly) that it would be sufficient to charge my Nexus 4
I'm using an older usb cable I've got to charge it in my car however if i'm using navigation then the battery still decreases.
I've got a funny feeling that the cable is the culprit but i'm not 100% sure.
Is there anyway to monitor how much juice your phone is getting from the charge?
P.S in the battery monitor screen it says AC not USB
Thanks in advance for any help
Stret

Battery monitor widget pro. It monitors the mA that's being used, mV, etc. Maybe the phone is pulling more mA than the charger is supplying.

You need to go into your battery settings/status while your phone is plugged into your car charger.
It will show one of two statuses:
Charging(AC) and Charching(USB)
If it is showing charging(USB), then the phone is detecting a false data connection. This can be solved by taking apart your USB charger and soldering the middle two pins of the USB. These pins are the Data(+) and Data(-) pins. I attached an image of the two Data pins soldered together on the usb charger.
If it is showing Charging(AC), then your USB charger is not pushing enough mA to charge your phone. Most cheap car USB chargers are in the 500 mA to 700 mA range. The stock USB wall charger that comes with your Nexus 4 is 5V 1200mA.

t989BeLikeItDo said:
You need to go into your battery settings/status while your phone is plugged into your car charger.
It will show one of two statuses:
Charging(AC) and Charching(USB)
If it is showing charging(USB), then the phone is detecting a false data connection. This can be solved by taking apart your USB charger and soldering the middle two pins of the USB. These pins are the Data(+) and Data(-) pins. I attached an image of the two Data pins soldered together on the usb charger.
If it is showing Charging(AC), then your USB charger is not pushing enough mA to charge your phone. Most cheap car USB chargers are in the 500 mA to 700 mA range. The stock USB wall charger that comes with your Nexus 4 is 5V 1200mA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah it definitely shows AC was the first thing I checked, so what your saying is that link o posted above is actaully a false claim to how much power it knocks out?
Stret

Stretlow said:
Yeah it definitely shows AC was the first thing I checked, so what your saying is that link o posted above is actaully a false claim to how much power it knocks out?
Stret
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Click to collapse
Hard to say. From my experience, you get what you pay for. A USB charger that cost less than 2 GBP seems unlikely to support the kind of mA throughput that the Nexus 4 requires.
Some ways to check this are to check the power supply and draw through a battery monitoring app, use a different USB cable or the USB cable that came with your Nexus 4, or take apart the USB charger and inspect the hardware to see if it actually is built to support a 2A supply. That last one is a bit of a headache.
Here is an iFixit teardown of a similar USB charger which goes into detail about some of the working parts of a car USB charger.
To quote the final part of the iFixit teardown:
Quite simply, the device is a rebadged 500mA or 750mA USB charger at best. It is NOT 1A capable, despite what the sticker on the body says.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good luck!

t989BeLikeItDo said:
Hard to say. From my experience when it goes about this type of gear is that you get what you pay or. For a USB charger that cost less than 2 GBP it seems unlikely that it would support the kind of mA throughput that the Nexus 4 requires.
Some ways to check this is to check the power supply and draw through a battery monitoring app, use a different USB cable or the USB cable that came with your Nexus 4, or take apart the USB charger and inspect the hardware to see if it actually is built to support a 2A supply. That last one is a bit of a headache.
Here is an iFixit teardown of a similar USB charger which goes into detail about some of the working parts of a car USB charger.
Good luck!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your help mate

Stretlow said:
Thanks for your help mate
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Click to collapse
No problem! You should try and remember that the Nexus 4 is a pretty sophisticated piece of hardware. I'm not advocating that you go out and spend 20 GBP on equipment, but you don't want to use a cheap generic piece of trash to interface that electrical connection. The build quality of your charger can put your handset at risk to being damaged by electrical shorts and/or heat.
I would liken it to parking your sports car in a cheap parking garage on the bad side of town. Sure, you can do it, but there are risks involved!

Qi charging problems

I ordered the official Samsung wireless cover from Amazon, slapped it on, and then put my Otterbox Commuter series over it - so far so good, everything fits reasonably well.
I go to put my S5 on a wireless charger and it charges. Then stops charging. Then starts charging again. Then stops again. Over and over it repeats this.
I get to thinking the phone is just too far away, so I take off the hardshell of the Otterbox Commuter. Same thing happens again. So I take off the soft shell - now I'm down to just the naked phone, and it's still charging on and off.
I'm using the blackberry folding blade wires, and the chargers found here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/goo...udget-wireless-charger-showdown-5-qi-t2676249
Specifically, the tilted charger and rectangle with LED lights. Both are giving me the exact same on & off problem.
So does anyone know how to fix this? Is it the chargers or something I'm doing? Are the chargers just not generating a strong enough field (if so, which charger can I get that will generate a better field?)
Thanks for any help
EDIT: Clarified that wireless cover is official Samsung

xmacro said:
I ordered the wireless cover from Amazon, slapped it on, and then put my Otterbox Commuter series over it - so far so good, everything fits reasonably well.
I go to put my S5 on a wireless charger and it charges. Then stops charging. Then starts charging again. Then stops again. Over and over it repeats this.
I get to thinking the phone is just too far away, so I take off the hardshell of the Otterbox Commuter. Same thing happens again. So I take off the soft shell - now I'm down to just the naked phone, and it's still charging on and off.
I'm using the blackberry folding blade wires, and the chargers found here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/goo...udget-wireless-charger-showdown-5-qi-t2676249
Specifically, the tilted charger and rectangle with LED lights. Both are giving me the exact same on & off problem.
So does anyone know how to fix this? Is it the chargers or something I'm doing? Are the chargers just not generating a strong enough field (if so, which charger can I get that will generate a better field?)
Thanks for any help
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had the same issue with a cheap receiver I bought off ebay. The receiver was junk. I took it out of the phone and dropped it on the mat and used a multimeter to check my voltages and never got consistent readings. Tried again with the same chinese mat and the official back and no issues at all.

Kite09 said:
I had the same issue with a cheap receiver I bought off ebay. The receiver was junk. I took it out of the phone and dropped it on the mat and used a multimeter to check my voltages and never got consistent readings. Tried again with the same chinese mat and the official back and no issues at all.
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Click to collapse
Ah, sorry, should have clarified - I'm using the (allegedly) official Samsung wireless cover, the part that replaces the entire back

xmacro said:
Ah, sorry, should have clarified - I'm using the (allegedly) official Samsung wireless cover, the part that replaces the entire back
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am having similar issues using a Palm wireless charger I custom made. I believe the issue is the connection from the cover to the pins on the device next to the battery. I am going to try adjusting it. Also, putting the phone in power saving mode before wireless charging seems to help. Think it may have to do with the wireless charging coil not providing enough amps for the phone to keep up. Trying a different cable/wall charger may help.

xmacro said:
Ah, sorry, should have clarified - I'm using the (allegedly) official Samsung wireless cover, the part that replaces the entire back
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It could be the output isn't high enough. For the official mat you need to have a 3 amp charger for it to work. And if the output is too low, the phone may be getting confused because it is detecting a current, but not enough of one for it to be registering that it is charging. I have a car charger that has a 1 amp and a 2 amp setting, and when I try it on the 1 amp setting I get the same issue where it connects and disconnects. 2 amp and I get 0 issues.

I have a similar issue. I'm using the official Samsung S-View Wireless Charging Cover with the Nexus 5 wireless Charger. I get nothing when I put them together. I believe the output from the charger is around 2 amps and it works perfectly with my Nexus 5 (surprise, surprise...) Not sure why I don't get any response whatsoever...

Kite09 said:
It could be the output isn't high enough. For the official mat you need to have a 3 amp charger for it to work. And if the output is too low, the phone may be getting confused because it is detecting a current, but not enough of one for it to be registering that it is charging. I have a car charger that has a 1 amp and a 2 amp setting, and when I try it on the 1 amp setting I get the same issue where it connects and disconnects. 2 amp and I get 0 issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using a blackberry folding blade charger, the stated output is 1.8 amps, and my Samsung charger that came with the phone is 2.0 amps; both give me the on/off problem. Is 3 amps really the key? Where do you find one?

xmacro said:
I'm using a blackberry folding blade charger, the stated output is 1.8 amps, and my Samsung charger that came with the phone is 2.0 amps; both give me the on/off problem. Is 3 amps really the key? Where do you find one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry meant to say 2 amp. But you may want to test your mat and receiver and see if it really putting out the 1 amp the other thread said it was supposed to. If you are getting an output of less than 1 amp that the other thread says it should be then that is probably your issue. Unfortunately I'm not able to measure the outputs on either of my mats to give you an idea until later this evening when I get out of work.

Kite09 said:
Sorry meant to say 2 amp. But you may want to test your mat and receiver and see if it really putting out the 1 amp the other thread said it was supposed to. If you are getting an output of less than 1 amp that the other thread says it should be then that is probably your issue. Unfortunately I'm not able to measure the outputs on either of my mats to give you an idea until later this evening when I get out of work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you may be right; it may well be the mats I have are just junk, both of them, unfortunately.
I opened up the back of the phone, and brushed off the wireless charging prongs, just to make sure they weren't dirty. Put cover back on, put otterbox commuter case back on.
Put it on the wireless charger, it cycles on/off again and again, about once per second. Take off the hard shell, leaving just the soft shell, and it cycles on/off about once every five seconds - that is, the interval actually got longer. Take off the soft shell, down to a naked phone, and works after cycling on/off about 5 times, then it settles down and stops cycling.
On another charger, the tilted qi charger, it'll charge if the phone is naked, but if I put even the soft shell of the Otterbox Commuter on it, it'll cycle a few times then just not charge at all.
I'm not sure this is a connection problem with the prongs, or a problem with the wire/charger. I think it has something to do with the field that the qi charger is generating. Since I don't know jack about the qi standard, can anyone tell me if all qi fields are equal? That is, do higher quality qi chargers produce a larger or strong field than cheap units?
Like I said in the OP, these are all very cheap chargers, $15 at most, and I'm wondering if that may be the cause.

xmacro said:
I'm using a blackberry folding blade charger, the stated output is 1.8 amps, and my Samsung charger that came with the phone is 2.0 amps; both give me the on/off problem. Is 3 amps really the key? Where do you find one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use the 2A charger that came with the phone with the CHOETECH pads. The insert is the CHOETECH mat inside the cover. The pad is rated 2.1A input, 1A output. My phone cycles on-off occasionally when the phone hits 100%. I use the Otterbox Defender case.

jetskier said:
I use the 2A charger that came with the phone with the CHOETECH pads. The insert is the CHOETECH mat inside the cover. The pad is rated 2.1A input, 1A output. My phone cycles on-off occasionally when the phone hits 100%. I use the Otterbox Defender case.
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Click to collapse
Interesting, so could the problem be due to just using a cheap generic? Seems that the cheap ones may be generating a smaller or weaker field?

Just wanted to post an update - bought a more expensive charger, one with 3 coils instead of the 1 that was in my other two - and now it charges fine, right through my Otterbox Commuter case.
So to anyone else having this problem - the field generated doesn't seem to be big enough to penetrate the Otterbox Commuter with just one coil, you need 3 or so.
EDIT: Specifially, it was the Cheotech Qi wireless charger, rectangle with LED

xmacro said:
Just wanted to post an update - bought a more expensive charger, one with 3 coils instead of the 1 that was in my other two - and now it charges fine, right through my Otterbox Commuter case.
So to anyone else having this problem - the field generated doesn't seem to be big enough to penetrate the Otterbox Commuter with just one coil, you need 3 or so.
EDIT: Specifially, it was the Cheotech Qi wireless charger, rectangle with LED
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's not the problem with the coil, they give out the same current, it's because the angled charger is a cheap and nasty one, and the flat one is just a fake one, the official one cost alot more.
3 coils only give you a wider surface detection, the current is just the same as a single coil or a 7 coils.
The 3 coils charger you have is a rebadge of powerqi T300 which is a highly recommended one.

kms108 said:
it's not the problem with the coil, they give out the same current, it's because the angled charger is a cheap and nasty one, and the flat one is just a fake one, the official one cost alot more.
3 coils only give you a wider surface detection, the current is just the same as a single coil or a 7 coils.
The 3 coils charger you have is a rebadge of powerqi T300 which is a highly recommended one.
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Click to collapse
Ya learn something new everyday - thanks for the info