Database Users

Has anyone considered writing a SCREEN SHOT app that doesn't require root?

There are zero in the Marketplace.
Is there some kind of technical limitation of Android that prevents this most rudimentary of features of a computing device with a screen? I just don't get it at all. It can't be that nobody has asked for one. So there must be a limitation of Android that prevents a screenshot from being generated?
REQUEST: Can anyone write an app that solves this? I think there were would be great demand.

I think if it was possible, there would be one by now. Most likely it's not.

It can't be that nobody has asked for one. So there must be a limitation of Android that prevents a screenshot from...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you answered your own question; )
In order to take a screen print, data from the video RAM must be extracted. root access is required for this.
Sent from my HTC Desire using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk

Yeah, you can pretty much rule out anything that requires direct access to hardware. Hardware access is limited to what is accessible via APIs. By the look of it, that does not include access to the video RAM. There are many other things (flashlight for example) which, although they seem simple, are not included in the standard APIs and therefore are not possible without root access to the device.

bcmobile said:
Yeah, you can pretty much rule out anything that requires direct access to hardware. Hardware access is limited to what is accessible via APIs. By the look of it, that does not include access to the video RAM. There are many other things (flashlight for example) which, although they seem simple, are not included in the standard APIs and therefore are not possible without root access to the device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you. I'm not a developer so I didn't know these limitations existed. This OS has developed so fast -- less than 2 years old... and yet, I would have thought this kind of thing would have been handled long ago, just from end-user expectation: "I can print-screen" or screen grab on my full size computer, so i probably can screen grab from my hand held computer.
But re flashlight -- maybe there is one specific function/app you are referring to, but on my Hero, unrooted, thru the Market, i must have downloaded and tried about 6 different flashlights, all with basic function of using the white light of the screen as a light source... some that enabled you to change the color of the screen to blue, red, etc... One even has this cop-car alternating red-blue flashing light display.
I am probably misunderstanding you though.
I think ultimately I am just surprised certain things are not further along -- and it's a stark contrast to a thread I was just visiting way across the other side of the XDA forums universe -- called WP7 - epic fail --- in which many die hard WM developers lament the passing of an OS that gave amazing levels of access to devs, yet the UI of the OS itself was beyond dated, it was dysfunctional and impractical in today's world.
It's just interesting to read the perspectives of developers touting Symbian as the most open OS and most efficient (less battery drain) -- and last I knew I thought it was being killed off. Wrong again.
I'm extremely happy with Android -- but then there are these few blindspots where I have to say -- wow -- i could do THAT 5 years ago on my old T-Mobile MDA WM 5x phone ... like 100%-reliable voicetags for phone calling contacts, opening apps etc, vs speech recognition, ... like the abilities the resistive screen gave me in drawing elaborate sketch at a meeting -- or my being able the take really quick notes with -- yes -- a stylus -- not an alltogether stupid idea -- and have a 90% success rate at character recognition and conversion to text ... the precision of controlling a color slider bar on a resistive screen --- i understand that's not OS but screen properties -- but I am just collectively observing that while I absolutely loved my HERO, and now am discovering my DESIRE, there are still some very basic things I can't do with allegedly the best smartphone in the marketplace.
I'm very agnostic about hardware and software, never been a fanboy -- I'm a usability designer... so functionality rules, end users rule. And basic things like this -- a screenshot -- they may be very explainable by devs... And my question may sound like it's very annoying to some, and I'm just a dumb **** (not you, you were respectful), but I think, as a end user advocate, it's pretty stupid -- and seems senseless to me that this phone can do 1001 backflips with video, and yet it can't let me "record" what I see on my screen. I get it that it's not yet released by Google, but they're who I'm calling stupid for not solving something so elementary by now.
I have every right to say this without any android architecture knowledge.

I can see your point, but in all modern operating systems, there is no direct hardware control, for any purpose, no matter how benevolent the purpose might be.
This is done only through api programming and libraries of calls, which are also restricted most of the time.
The reason is simple and can be summarized to one word, security.
As phones are becoming more and more capable of doing sensitive activities like online banking transactions and on top of that hold every personal info one has,
security will become an even greater concern.
Windows so far, have been the least secure platform for every day use to date. This is also true for windows mobile.
I know it looks like you are getting less usability than you did, but at least in this case its not just to inflate someone's wallet with extra money, through proprietorial lock down of services and apis, which would be "opened" at a later date for some more cash.
I m sure that in no time we ll be seeing full blown firewalls and antivirus suites for superphones like the desire.
All it will take is a few more viruses-trojans targeting mobile platforms like jailbroken iphones or rooted android devices.

I guess the same limitations are to be blamed for not having a proper voice recorder, i.e. one that can record both parts of a phone conversation.

reason you arent getting a non root screenshot app(if memory serves correctly):
the screenshot app takes a dump of the display file in /dev/ and then uses image processing to output a jpg/png/whatever. At the momment we can see the contents of /dev/ with (adb shell ls /dev/) but any attempt to read/write/copy (adb pull /dev/lightsensor ./lightsensor)(yes i know that is the light sensor but couldnt remember what the display file was called) anything is met with a "permission denied".

So close to being a laptop replacement / missing Keyboard shortcuts / capabilities

This is combination of a gmail app question, accessory question and honeycomb OS question so I'll post it in general.
I received my Moto Bluetooth keyboard today.
This is a huge step forward in having this device be a laptop replacement for 90% of my non-work computer use. However, there are a few things missing:
1. Is there a keyboard shortcut to switch between active applications? Like alt-tab in windows? the dedicated app buttons are nice, but this means that I can only switch between certain apps.
2. Is there a way to change the behavior for the buttons? There is no "messaging" app in honeycomb. I would instead like this to map to gchat
3. Where are keyboard shortcuts in the gmail app? I want to be able to archive, reply, and forward by hitting y, r, and f.
4. in fact why do the arrow keys not do what I expect them to in gmail? They jump between links in the content of the email. I want them to be able to let me hop between emails not only within the current one. Perhaps this would be solved by keyboard shortcuts of j and k.
5. Why hasn't anyone made a decent office/productivity app yet? Is this that difficult? Is there a way to force my browser to not use the mobile version of google docs?
6. I hate to say it, but I miss blur. Only for the fact that motorola understands how to integrate with exchange well.
Blur can download attachments, reply to email, manage calendar invites, look up in the GAL, etc much much better than the crap support that google gives out of the box. And before anyone asks, TouchDown for Tablets has issues in honeycomb and does not work for me.
That being said, these are all minor software tweaks. I love the device and really hope that moto/google can address these issues.
If anyone has any known workarounds or solutions please let me know as well.

I don't have my Xoom (yet) and I don't have a keyboard. But I do have an OG Droid. And you can setup your shortcuts for it by going into Settings->Applications->Quick Launch. You might check to see if that option is there for the Xoom.

Android apps do not have keyboard shortcuts, period. The onscreen keyboard isn't meant for that and it's not designed to be used with an external keyboard (primarily).

Dang! While I was typing my thread someone else had apparently a similar question... could one of the admins/moderators please merge my thread with this??!!? Thanks!

Bauxite said:
Android apps do not have keyboard shortcuts, period. The onscreen keyboard isn't meant for that and it's not designed to be used with an external keyboard (primarily).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
android-tips.com/use-keyboard-shortcuts-to-switch-between-applications/
It does look like there are keyboard shortcuts, but some of them have been dropped in the move to honeycomb. This is odd because I would think that more people will be using external keyboards to do actual work with honeycomb.

bryz2 said:
5. Why hasn't anyone made a decent office/productivity app yet? Is this that difficult?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe the fact Honeycomb has been out all of 6 days...
You ever try writing a complex program such as that? No?! I didn't think so. Things like that take time. not even MS can pump out a copy of office in 6 days with their enormous development staff.

chaoscentral said:
Maybe the fact Honeycomb has been out all of 6 days...
You ever try writing a complex program such as that? No?! I didn't think so. Things like that take time. not even MS can pump out a copy of office in 6 days with their enormous development staff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol. Quite defensive.
1. the sdk has been out for a while. Ever think about why there were apps on launch day? Those companies must have millions of people!!!
2. Since you asked, I have written much more complex apps. I'm a systems engineer. Phone apps are relatively simple.
3. Android has been out for years now. There is still not a decent office app on any flavor of android.

bryz2 said:
3. Android has been out for years now. There is still not a decent office app on any flavor of android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There pops the bubble

zdnet.co.uk/news/mobile-devices/2011/03/02/asuss-eee-pad-tablets-show-off-android-30-40091991/#story
hopefully if they keep releasing devices with keyboards, keyboard support and office applications will only get better.

bryz2 said:
lol. Quite defensive.
1. the sdk has been out for a while. Ever think about why there were apps on launch day? Those companies must have millions of people!!!
2. Since you asked, I have written much more complex apps. I'm a systems engineer. Phone apps are relatively simple.
3. Android has been out for years now. There is still not a decent office app on any flavor of android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The API was finalized two days before the Xoom was released. Also the SDK is completely unusable without a Xoom to test on, so if a developer didn't have one there was almost no way they could start developing it before it came out unless google gave them a pre-production unit. This is why there are so few xoom apps right now, you could not develop for honeycomb without one unless you were okay with the emulator going .001 frames per second.

Google Suggests Google Docs. I think its very good considering it is web based.
We use it in our organization, publishing live statistical information about the operation every few minutes to shared spreadsheets, from which our users can interact.
Google Docs users can open, edit, share spreadsheets, Txt Docs with formating, and now Power Point without any issues from Android Devices, Apple, and any other web device.
I think Quick Office is also good for a small screen, and it has been out for years.
Or, Email moves docs around very nicely as well.
But in the end, Android is not Ubuntu. Andriod is not MacOS. Android is not Windows
If you would like to create complex documents, pick up a laptop. I hear they are available, and portable.

youngproguru said:
Google Suggests Google Docs. I think its very good considering it is web based.
We use it in our organization, publishing live statistical information about the operation every few minutes to shared spreadsheets, from which our users can interact.
Google Docs users can open, edit, share spreadsheets, Txt Docs with formating, and now Power Point without any issues from Android Devices, Apple, and any other web device.
I think Quick Office is also good for a small screen, and it has been out for years.
Or, Email moves docs around very nicely as well.
But in the end, Android is not Ubuntu. Andriod is not MacOS. Android is not Windows
If you would like to create complex documents, pick up a laptop. I hear they are available, and portable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly why I want a Google Documents app for Android tablets, since Google Documents doesn't load well in our browsers.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App

Attention all Android fans - This is Important

We really need to rally and get Google to fix some major issues with the Android OS. If Android is going to be truly universal and be able to compete, and beat Apple, it needs to at least be able to do what it can do. Please read: http://claar.org/blog/?p=180 and call, email, post, blog, whatever you can to get Googles attention on these issues.
And thank you for your support.
P.S. Pass this url on to every android user you can.
http://claar.org/blog/?p=180
Sent from my ADR6300, not my wife's iPad...

You have a legitimate argument but those items you listed are never performed by me. =[ Sorry. Everything I need done, works. =]
[ Sent from an LG Optimus V ]

Android still has a way to go before being all things to all people. It has the potential though so i'm sure we'll see improvements in the areas where it's currently weak.
Nice write up though. I hope these issues are resolved for you soon.

Write your congressman. Attend your local PTA meeting.

Don't gey me wrong, I love my Android phone, just saying that Google is missing the boat on the Enterprise side of things. Used to have an iPod touch that worked flawlessly on our corporate intranet, can't say the same for my dinc. As the workforce continues to become more mobile, they'll be carrying iPads instead of Xooms or Galaxy tabs.
Sent from my ADR6300, not my wife's iPad.

are there really people who use android's and ipad's/iphone's for work???
o-o?
id rater use a PC or laptop. but yha.
think all the company's want to be cool?
i cant go suport this.because my android does what it needs to do.
remember. smartphones and tablets aren't pc's,so they shouldn't do the work of a pc.

ghost010 said:
are there really people who use android's and ipad's/iphone's for work???
o-o?
id rater use a PC or laptop. but yha.
think all the company's want to be cool?
i cant go suport this.because my android does what it needs to do.
remember. smartphones and tablets aren't pc's,so they shouldn't do the work of a pc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why shouldnt they? Why should they have limitations. I say the more capabilities the better!

Universally, I don't understand Googles LACK of contact and attention to it's customers. Like most people are aware that e-mailing google is a complete WASTE OF TIME. I'd love to meet someone who has yet to actually get a meaningful response from google. I understand that they are a HUGE company and can easily get overwhelmed by emails, but the complete lack of response in general is UNACCEPTABLE. Why do they act this way, ESPECIALLY to their customers? Eitherway, they should respond in some way to all emails, understandable for free products, but for PAYING customers like us Android users, should get a response.
Google is worse than Sprint when it comes to response. I don't get it or understand.

I'm an IT Director for a medium sized medical manufacturing company and I've been testing ipads as a laptop alternative for our salesforce, and I have to say, I would be absolutely pissed if I had to use an ipad(or any tablet for that matter) for work.
Don't get me wrong. They work. But do you want to do all your work on them? HELL NO.
I have a remote desktop app on my mytouch 4g and I use it every now and then when I need to fix something or get onto the server for any reason. That doesn't mean I'm going to ditch my computer because my phone is capable of doing something my laptop does. Tablets, smartphones, mobile devices in general...they should be used to supplement computers, not replace them.
And as far as google 'not listening to their customers', you obviously haven't been on any sort of development team before. Especially not one that had any sort of fast progress. I don't know if you've noticed, but chip manufacturers have released dual core mobile cpu's. So google can either work on your vpn problem and appease a small number of enterprise users(people who will actually use a vpn on their phones), or they can concentrate on optimizing their code so it will work well with the next generation of hardware. They're obviously going to concentrate their manpower(or womanpower) on development for next-gen hardware. If the support ticket exists, they'll work on it. But there are thousands of them, and people need to realize that just because it's important to you specifically, doesn't mean it's an important problem. VPN access doesn't effect the overall functionality of the os during normal use, so it's going be put on the back burner, that doesn't mean it won't be fixed.
And whoever said go to pta meetings, PTA = parent teachers association. Good luck getting heard there.
While on the subject of fixes, I'm more concerned about linked market data and being able to transfer purchases to different accounts. I.E. switching from a google apps account to a gmail account. Also, the 'master account' crap. There should be a way to change which login you use to connect to gtalk and the market without having to reset your device to factory. That just sucks.

LOL, I used to get those "wake-up" calls from the 3rd shift platform operators. I got my butt out of bed, got on my PC and fixed the problem or marked it "next day" and fixed it when I got to work.
I can't see using a phone's screen size to debug a couple hundred lines of JCL or batch COBOL program Not to mention, I was usually talking to the operator at the same time I needed to see something on the PC; very hard to do with a phone.

Can it connect to Microsoft's pptp? Yes - http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/smartphones/connect-to-a-pptp-vpn-from-your-android-phone/2145
problem 1. You can connect to a proxy (unless i'm not understanding your complaint) There's Proxy options under the settings menu.
Problem 2. I've noticed this but apparently some 3rd party browsers can do it.
Problem 3. Not sure about this one, but i connect to many different networks (public, domestic and at uni) and have never had a problem like this.
What you're saying is that you have various problems that the vast majority of people will never experience and you are wondering why Google aren't dropping everything to fix it immediately? These problems (to me at least) seem incredibly minor.

kccasey said:
Universally, I don't understand Googles LACK of contact and attention to it's customers. Like most people are aware that e-mailing google is a complete WASTE OF TIME. I'd love to meet someone who has yet to actually get a meaningful response from google. I understand that they are a HUGE company and can easily get overwhelmed by emails, but the complete lack of response in general is UNACCEPTABLE. Why do they act this way, ESPECIALLY to their customers? Eitherway, they should respond in some way to all emails, understandable for free products, but for PAYING customers like us Android users, should get a response.
Google is worse than Sprint when it comes to response. I don't get it or understand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because they already have your money, therefor they could care less. And they will continue to get your money, his money, her money etc because they make a product and provide a service that we all have come to rely on. They've got the hook set, you can't break free and they can let us dangle as long as they want.
But maybe the combination of google, samsung, and verizon has destroyed my outlook.
Samsung Fascinate
Frankenclean 2.8
EB16-ish Voodoo Kernel
Mob87's Honeycomb theme
Sent from XDA Premium App

I think many of these issues will take a long long time to see resolved.
You need to consider what motivates google RE Android. Hint: It is not paying customers.
Thing is, normal market forces are not at work in the Android space. This is
my BIGGEST issue with Android.

@andmiller
You don't think your needs are most important ones, do you? There are many, many things to do, not only these mentioned by you.
For me your "This is Important" bugs are minor. Actually I didn't know about them to this time. I care much more about NDK APIs, performance and UI improvements and this is exactly what Google does.
Also there is one good reason to focus on new APIs, standard libraries, developer tools, etc.: Google is only one who can improve them and sooner is better. They could fix bugs at any time, they could also port them to older versions of OS. But if they add new API, it will take some time for developers to use it, because new API won't be supported by most of devices. So it's much better to work on a new features first and fix minor bugs later.

BobPaul said:
I think many of these issues will take a long long time to see resolved.
You need to consider what motivates google RE Android. Hint: It is not paying customers.
Thing is, normal market forces are not at work in the Android space. This is
my BIGGEST issue with Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have got that completely backwards. Iphone is not normal market space. Each manufacturer running android os have to set themselves apart from each other, hence skinning the os. If customers demand, need it, it will get fixed or innovated.
Apple controls all, What they say goes. Example: no flash, theming....
Amazon drops their android app store on tues. Why, market forces.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

hey dude most of those issuses were fix sort of well i wouldnt say fix because google came out with a whole new O.S. most of ur issuses hav been resolved in the honeycomb os and greater but u dont need a fix u need a app that can handle what u need

> Can it connect to Microsoft's pptp? Yes - http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/sma...oid-phone/2145
No, or at least, not for several hundred people at least, some who have even provided logs of both sides of the conversation. Some bug comments are from companies, representing complaints from their customer base, so it is probably more. I could write an article that shows how to do it, too, but that doesn't mean that I've tested all combinations. If the author's VPN was not encrypted, he wouldn't have seen the problem, and--since his connection worked, and there's that encryption checkbox--he might have just assumed it worked. He might have even tried it: You can connect with encryption, you just can't stay connected for any length of time.
> problem 1. You can connect to a proxy (unless i'm not understanding your complaint) There's Proxy options under the settings menu.
I can manually set a proxy, although there are reports that this is not a standard part of android, but a value-add by the phone mfr. A third-party program could perhaps recognize which WAP I connect to and set values accordingly, but only if I want everything to go through the proxy, and not just some things. That would have worked at HP, but my ulterior motive is to proxy a specific blocked port so that I can pop my email to my wifi tab. OK, I'll admit, my actual reason isn't a compelling case for Google! ;-)
> Problem 2. I've noticed this but apparently some 3rd party browsers can do it.
I'm not surprised that some clever programmer patched around the breakage, but it needs to be solved generally. Really, this and VPN are the most important issues for me.
> Problem 3. Not sure about this one, but i connect to many different networks (public, domestic and at uni) and have never had a problem like this.
You have never had a problem like this that you know of! Most folks have been bitten by this when the run into a place with short leases, and only find out--if they do--by accident, since most places don't check for violators.

Other comments
For the person who asserted that these are fixed in the latest release, that doesn't appear to be the case, according to the bug reports.
Are there really people who use their portable device for work? Not if it is android-based! (I know, cheap shot, but--for many of us--a true statement).
I have a galaxy tab. With working VPN and ssh, I could login and do a simple database change "echo blah blah blah|mysql", restart a job, whatever. I'm not going to write a couple of thousand lines of code, but I might look at a couple of thousand lines of a log file! Instead, I have to fire up the PC, which means I have to be around the PC, and I'd rather have the freedom of mobility.

[Q] Quick Questions (Apps, Productivity, Tablet Experience)

First off,
Congrats GOOG, looks like we have a great (and affordable) tablet to play with! Some of the issues like missing SD, HDMI (has this been confirmed?) are really no big deal for me, 16GIG is huge, cheap storage is really spoiling us
Second,
I haven't used an Android product yet (this will be my first), moved from my amazing Motorola E6 (it was Linux/EZX based, a rooted device ran most linux ported apps for EZX, xmms baby) to the slick Nokia E71, and to Apple (currently on 4S). I have always known that Android is the way, but didn't move (too many choices in hardware?)
Ques 1) Will all Android market place apps work on the Nexus Tablet? I have seen some power apps (incredibly we have Total Commander port for android, Christian rocks, waiting for Alex to release DC port now)
Ques 2) How well do android spread sheet applications work on Tablets? Has anyone really stress tested complex excel / open office functions on Tablets? How will a spreadsheet feel on a 7 inch? Can I open Spreadsheets from email, edit, save a copy and send back on the fly?
Ques 3) Do you guys login in to remote VNC sessions using your tablet? What has been your experience on Android tablets? Is it smooth? My wife uses an iPad, and we use that to remote control a laptop connected to our LCD, I hate the experience
Ques 4) I intend to use this tablet for a lot of reading (black background, grey text), will Nexus 7 have any application that could render PDF text having unicode UTF-8 fonts + ability to reflow the text so that it fits the page width? I haven't seen any such application in the Apple iOS space, but incredibly Adobe did this on Symbian (UTF-8 with text reflow).
Quest 5) How do Android tablets fair in terms of productivity tools? (PIM, Task Management, Email, Reminders)
... I actually have a bunch of more questions, but I guess I will have to hold until we get more reviews of the Nexus 7.

Oops... I didn't realize my Sony T1 reader is an Android device. So this makes Nexus 7 my second, my bad.
Besides, *bump*

hashibahoohaa said:
First off,
Ques 2) How well do android spread sheet applications work on Tablets? Has anyone really stress tested complex excel / open office functions on Tablets? How will a spreadsheet feel on a 7 inch? Can I open Spreadsheets from email, edit, save a copy and send back on the fly?
Ques 3) Do you guys login in to remote VNC sessions using your tablet? What has been your experience on Android tablets? Is it smooth? My wife uses an iPad, and we use that to remote control a laptop connected to our LCD, I hate the experience
Quest 5) How do Android tablets fair in terms of productivity tools? (PIM, Task Management, Email, Reminders)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
2) In my experience the basic excel functions work (sum, avg, etc.) I have had trouble with some of the more technical ones, and IIf statements do not work at all.
3) If you are talking about remote desktop...it still sucks.
5) I like android for productivity there are lots of apps and widgets, and they claim there is even newer and better stuff in 4.1 that this tablet will take advantage of.

Welcome to Android! Unfortunately I'm new to the tablet space, but I can answer your first question.
1) Android apps were made to be versatile. Well coded apps (key word there), will usually scale correctly according to what screen size you have. So a dev who makes a good phone app, should have it scale to a tablet screen.
Unfortunately, the lack of Android tablet success has led to a lack of "tablet specific" layouts for apps. So tablet users tend to have blown up versions of phone apps instead of UI's that take advantage of the extra real estate. But I think the success of the Nexus 7 might change a few developers minds.....
Edit- So just to clarify, most market apps will work on both phones and tablets. Unfortunately the wide variety of devices out there means you are much more likely to get occasional compatibility issues. Just a sacrifice you have to make for all the choice Android offers.

StyleNSkillz said:
2) In my experience the basic excel functions work (sum, avg, etc.) I have had trouble with some of the more technical ones, and IIf statements do not work at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually if N7 can do Google docs without the horrible text box (save / cancel) rendering for individual cell edits, I would be very comfortable. Google docs is fully portable with my Open Office (Libre Office) sheets.
3) If you are talking about remote desktop...it still sucks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, VNC as in running a TighVNC server on Windows/Linux and accessing it using a VNC client from the tablet. I am worried now, with my wife's iPad, I at-least get real estate to vent my frustration on, with 7 inch I may need a wall next to me (to bang my head on)
5) I like android for productivity there are lots of apps and widgets, and they claim there is even newer and better stuff in 4.1 that this tablet will take advantage of.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you please name a few of tablets?

Nospin said:
Welcome to Android!
Edit- So just to clarify, most market apps will work on both phones and tablets. Unfortunately the wide variety of devices out there means you are much more likely to get occasional compatibility issues. Just a sacrifice you have to make for all the choice Android offers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks mate - I think 4s is my last apple device, I am moving.
But too many hardware options with Android - none perfect, I wonder why GOOG bought Motorola Mobility

hashibahoohaa said:
First off,
Ques 1) Will all Android market place apps work on the Nexus Tablet? I have seen some power apps (incredibly we have Total Commander port for android, Christian rocks, waiting for Alex to release DC port now)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I took the Samsung Tab for a spin yesterday, not bad at all (the slate with all those ports missing in N7 making users drool over it, it's nice. I installed a couple of applications from the market (TC for one), very smooth indeed. Thanks for confirming this. I hope I will need very little applications besides the stock applications on the tablet.
Ques 2) How well do android spread sheet applications work on Tablets? Has anyone really stress tested complex excel / open office functions on Tablets? How will a spreadsheet feel on a 7 inch? Can I open Spreadsheets from email, edit, save a copy and send back on the fly?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried this as well yesterday on the Samsung tab - I tried the Acer 7 tab as well, but I think it was a old android version (HC). Polaris Office Spreadsheet may fit my needs - but really need to spend an hour or 2 to really know if it gets the job done.
Ques 4) I intend to use this tablet for a lot of reading (black background, grey text), will Nexus 7 have any application that could render PDF text having unicode UTF-8 fonts + ability to reflow the text so that it fits the page width? I haven't seen any such application in the Apple iOS space, but incredibly Adobe did this on Symbian (UTF-8 with text reflow).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If anybody has used a PDF reader which does UTF8 + text re-flow + font adjust, please let me know - this would be killer feature for me if it works.
Quest 5) How do Android tablets fair in terms of productivity tools? (PIM, Task Management, Email, Reminders)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looks like K9 could be my email solution - has anybody ported mutt to android yet?

Cobwebs growing on Windows phone 8 blogs and forums

At least with windows 7.x you could switch ROMs and side load useful apps, with this safeboot thing and Microsoft's lame attitude to give us more of the features and apps that we want it's no wonder why Windows Phone 8 fourms and blogs are so boring. Way to go Microsoft.

Agreed. I used to come here every day but, now it's once a week (kind of how it was on PPCgeeks.com). No roms, No interop unlocks, no unlocks period.
If you want more discussion about WP8, I suggest going to WPcentral.com...It's pretty active over there...
I really wish a hack of some type would hit, this is getting old. I just want my custom colors back (like I have with WP7).... Advanced Config I miss you !!!

Nobody has been able to find an exploit yet , but I don't really mind lack of activity in forms though as long as cobwebs don't settle upon the entire ecosystem itself we'll be fine

DavidinCT said:
Agreed. I used to come here every day but, now it's once a week (kind of how it was on PPCgeeks.com). No roms, No interop unlocks, no unlocks period.
If you want more discussion about WP8, I suggest going to WPcentral.com...It's pretty active over there...
I really wish a hack of some type would hit, this is getting old. I just want my custom colors back (like I have with WP7).... Advanced Config I miss you !!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea I agree that WP Central has lost more action going on but it's all the same stuff; I mean how many reviews of itsdagram, Facebook, Angry Birds and Skype can one handle before they get bored.
I always use to wonder why XDA turned into Android forum almost over night; now I know why its thanks to Microsoft. I feel sorry for Nokia though they took a big risk and now MS is being stubborn.

sinister1 said:
Yea I agree that WP Central has lost more action going on but it's all the same stuff; I mean how many reviews of itsdagram, Facebook, Angry Birds and Skype can one handle before they get bored.
I always use to wonder why XDA turned into Android forum almost over night; now I know why its thanks to Microsoft. I feel sorry for Nokia though they took a big risk and now MS is being stubborn.
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Click to collapse
Agreed, it's the same *****ing over there sometimes. Don't get me wrong, it's a good site if you want new and useful Windows Phone news. This site used to be a WM haven, just like PPCgeeks was. As that is all there was at the time, we had WM and BB...they were all mainly used by business people or hackers like ourselves.
WP7.x was pretty hackable after a while (with custom roms for most phones and interop unlock for about 90% of the models) so it was pretty active but, now with everyone moving to WP8 (ex WP7 users and converts) and No hacks yet, it's slowed down to almost nothing.
Android is mostly hackable and most phones have or NEED a custom rom, so this became a haven for Android users. And for now, as long as they are not going in this area and trolling, there is no issue with it or at least, I don't have an issue with it.
I do think it's a matter of time, they will find a exploit in WP8. I know why MS locked it down, once WP7 was hacked, it opened the doors for the pirates and some people took advantage if it. Sure there was some cool underground apps but, it just opened the system for the pirates. They wanted to lock down WP8 to make the higher end DEVs come and create the apps and games people want, to grow the system.
Nokia was paid pretty well to make a change to WP and over all they are doing very well with it...and their market is growing.
I'm stil deciding if I am going to pick up the Lumia 928 or stick with my HTC 8X(full price, Not giving up my unlimited data)....Hmmmmm... I just wish I could use Advanced Config to get my custom tile colors back

^stick with 8x at least till Nokia world sometime in September because surprises are on its way

Personally I like the very secure nature of my windows phone, I have rimmed more than my share of devices over the years, so its kind of refreshing to k ow this nuts hard to crack. Nokia did take a big risk but I think its been good for both companies. Nokia has done well with exclusive apps in a starved market and there devices are aimed well at a growing group of android overloaded users. With apps like tumble, netflix, Hulu and others coming over the devices are getting more main stream support and with time that will pay good dividends too. All in all I have found little reason to "root" this device other than for the hell of it. They come pretty lean on apps out of box. The biggest thing people seem to be trying to do is get tethering to work without paying out to a carrier for it. Personally if that's basically the reason your wanting to rom so bad, go back to android its far easier get going. I ramble now though, to sum up phone runs great unrommed, clean eco system and very secure setup makes for an all around pleasant device. I think special rimming is more or less unneeded for these devices. Been running unrommed windows mobile 7 and 8 now for about two years collectively. Have android tablets all rommed and a s3 rommed as a backup device.
Sent from my RM-878_nam_usa_100 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Meh... I considered WP7 without hacks to be nigh-unusable, even though I stuck with a stock ROM. No way to have apps open files automatically, for example (but I could manually add the registry entries, and could write apps that knew how to handle them). No way to access the filesystem (but I could sideload Kindle ebooks using homebrew file managers). No way back up app data or messages (except with homebrew). Minimal control of theming (as a class, this was one of the biggest homebrew categories). No real control over multitasking (I like that the default behavior is so conserving of battery life, but sometimes I don't *want* Puzzle Quest 2 or Fruit Ninja to have to go through its entire launch process just because I switched tasks or let the phone sleep for a bit!). Severe limit on sideloaded apps (I have over 30 of them, counting small utilities that that I developed, and not counting outdated versions, redundent apps, or anything else I removed). No listener sockets (though this didn't require a very fancy hack). No C++ code reuse (same as the server sockets). No way to tell how much space each app was using (but there's a homebrew for that).
WP8 fixes many of the worst problems. We can now register filetype handlers (though Kindle still doesn't register .MOBI or .PRC, so no more sideloading my ebooks for now...), use native code (with restrictions, but it's better than the default on WP7), and theme our phones (well, a litttttle bit more than before; still not enough). They added some much-requested features (SMS backup, variable text size, ability to control the browser app bar at least a bit, WiFi on while sleeping, Skype integration) and of course the change in OS brought many other improvements (multi-core, removable SD cards, higher resolutions, etc.). However, it still has some big problems of its own. True multitasking is still very limited. Data backup is still iffy. Still no filesystem access (or ability to do anything outside an app sandbox except the official Settings tools). Still very limited sideloading.
I promise you, though, people are working on it. I'm one of them, and several of the other names you know from WP7 hacking are as well.

People like GoodDayToDie & netham45 make the windows forums so much fun to follow

nikufellow said:
^stick with 8x at least till Nokia world sometime in September because surprises are on its way
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea but, I am on Verizon....After a release of a model it will take 6 months for Verizon to get a phone that is almost outdated on release.
The 8X is so limited on space that it's driving me nuts, If I find app or game I want to try, I have to uninstall a Paid app to install it. It's getting too old. 8X on format is 11.5gb and the Lumia 928 is 23.5gb, a little over double the space might be worth it, depending on what I can get it for, of course.

The blogs are dead because places like XDA that centralize around modding your phone to improve performance isn't necessary when WP8 software already performs flawlessly. Go to blogs like WPCentral and the Windows Phone community is alive and well swapping out our black Lumia shells for yellow and talking about games and apps. Pretty much doing what we should be doing on a phone, not repairing phones that came broken.

Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.

I've been wanting to root/unlock my Lumia for one purpose only, sideloading my own developed apps. It's gruesome to try an app in the emulator all the time, but in a month that will be fixed with an AppHub account. And after that my real purpose for rooting/unlocking is gone.
Always fun to see what's possible on the unlocked device though, code-wise.
Sent from my Lumia 920 using Board Express

GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If there is one thing I do not understand about the new SDK APIs, is why on earth an app can not register itself to open file formats reserved by the system. IMO thats the most retarded idea ever implemented in the history of computing. And to make the retarded thing completely retarded, they made it so most common files are handled by system apps, so you can not override the file association.
I am really wondering what is microsoft going to do about these things. If they really want a marketplace full of games, facebook, youtube and instagram apps, then they should stick to their current plan. WP will never get useful in a broad sense.
I hope the update this fall brings new stuff, otherwise the platform will die soon.

GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? ... You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although I don't agree with much of his bill-of-particulars, I have to agree with GDTD's sentiment.
Probably, modders need to correct deficiencies. I'm down with MS or anybody else who steps up. I'm in no hurry to crack my OS open right now, though.
I am especially offended at Microsoft's pitiful PDF reader attempt. And some of the apps in the store make me squint. I want to see the author "Google" emblazoned on my YouTube app, not a third party dev. I sure hope MS is putting these apps under a microscope.

The joy of homebrew (and of a developer forum, like this one) is, even if your goals are different from mine, it's possible for you to make your own changes to the device. It's yours; you control it. That's what security *means*, or at least what it's supposed to mean: you (the owner) are in control of what happens.
Ever since the iPhone, though, the trend has been twoards more and more lockdown, taking control away from the device owner and branding this as "security". I don't like it, so I aim to break it. Ideally, we break it in ways that only work with a local attack; I don't want somebody else able to control my device (that really would be the opposite of security)... but I do want to control it myself!

Part of the problem is that there have been no updates in recent months. Portico came out, Nokia dropped some new firmwares last month. But largely, nothing has changed in WP8 since launch. Personally, I find that boring. Maybe I should have an Android phone on the side to keep me entertained with updates, but I find Windows Phone much more usable day-to-day.
It has been more than 6 months since the WP8 launch, and GDR1 didn't really add much. Microsoft should have planned to have GDR2 out by now, even if it meant postponing some features for GDR3. I think most of us would rather have small quarterly updates to WP8, rather than a massive upgrade once a year. It's starting to feel like WP7 and the Mango anticipation all over again, now that it sounds like WP8.1 might be delayed into 2014. Hopefully they come through with their vaporware enthusiast program to keep our attention in the meantime.

I agree with the OP. Cobwebs on this side of the section totally. A thread in a week may be? But there is something I often read on many forums. People who are happy (I know it's a very wide term) with their devices, I.e don't run into problems with their devices, see no need to lurk around. So actually, it is a good sign. It shows how well-thought after a WP device is.
And GoodDayToDie, even though I agree with everything u've noted down, I don't quite believe WP needs all of that.
Still no app data backup machanism. - Umm...Data Sense?
Still no custom themes. - Fair Enough, but again, WP IS NOT meant to be themed to the T
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC. - I believe this is for security reasons.
Still no filesystem access. - Why do you even want that when the system is running flawless, (yes the same word u scorned at.)
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?) - LOL! You gotta be kidding me right?
Android has the worst permission management I have ever seen in my adult life. Android gives wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy more information out than any OS out there.
Still no way remove "Settings" apps. Umm..u sure u want that?
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking). Multi-tasking is really good with WP8.
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it). - Fair enough, but not a deal breaker either.
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer. - I believe you are again entering the territory of themeing, already replied above. Every OS comes with it's own email client. I don't see the point here.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card. - Fair enough. By far the best point in your list.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth. - In what way?
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry. - Again, WHY? WHy mend it when it's not broken.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps - U can download the app(paid or otherwise) from the App store on your computer, put it on the SD card and say install from the Store App on the phone. Simple?

DataSense has nothing even remotely to do with backing up (and restoring) app data; where'd you get that idea? Vital feature that homebrew eventually made avaialble in WP7 but is missing in WP8.
"IS NOT meant" nothing! Somewhere under all that sandboxing and locked-down UI is a general-purpose OS running on top of highly capable hardware. It's "meant" to be whatever the owner fo the device *wants* it to be, including (in the case of many, many people if the popularity of WP7 homebrew apps is any sign) theming. Stop being an apologist for Microsoft; it's one thing to say "extensive theming wasn't implemented because other features were higher priority" but when you start trying to tell me that I'm not supposed to theme it, you seriously need to put down the Kool-Ade. Besides, the very claim is ludicrous to the point of disingenious; have you *seen* the WP8 ads? They all stress the customizability of the Start screen. To the point of suggesting you can "meet" a person simply through how they have their phone set up... those ads freaking scream "customize me!" Then you discover there's only a handful of pre-set colors, two background styles, and the ability to mess with the tiles; nothing else.
No, it is quite absolutely *not* for "security" reasons. Security means the owner of the device controlling the device's behavior. If somebody else (like, for example, the manufacturer of the device) is controlling its behavior, that is not security; it's lockdown. The sideloading restriction can only be called security if it's not your device but actually belongs to Microsft. Screw that. Besides, that argument makes no sense anyhow; if I can pay my $99 and sideload with a PC, why can't I sideload without one (or without paying)? The marketplace has DRM to mitigate piracy and that's a darn weak excuse to cripple a device anyhow.
When I can load my Puzzle Quest 2 savegames and other game progress and high scores, copy my PGP keychain, sideload my Kindle ebooks into the Kindle app (yes, this is possible on WP7), extract or replace the built-in audio files, and delete the junk which accumulates in the OS and uses up storage space (without hard resetting the device), then I will stop considering the level of filesystem access a problem. Until then, "running flawless" is quite worthy of scorn indeed.
Wow, I seriously question your reading comprehension. I never mentioned Android in this point, or anywhere else (except to point out that it has a lot of homebrew). But, for your information, the default permissions / capabilities handling in Android is just as broken as in WP8. The difference is that with Android, it is possible (CyanogenMOD did this, for example) to install apps without actually granting them all the permissions they ask for. On WP7, this wasn't properly possible yet, but I was working on a system to do it that hooked the app install process and allowed people to uncheck app capabilities they didn't want to permit.
Um yes, I'd like to remove the non-functioning Samsung apps (until they are fixed) that are taking up space on my phone's storage and making the Settings list longer. I can always re-install them if needed. Every other carrier or OEM app is removable; why should these get special treatment just because they have a field in their app manifest that says "install me in the Settings hub"?
Multitasking - true multitasking, where multiple apps can run at once - is nigh-nonexistent on WP8. Aside from things like audio background agents and once-every-30-minutes-you-get-a-few-seconds-of-CPU-time scheduled tasks, there basically isn't any multitasking (of third-party apps) at all. Fast app switching is *not* multitasking; every app aside from the main one is suspended, unable to do amything until brought into the foreground.
Changing file associations obviusly isn't a deal-breaker, or I wouldn't be using the phone... but definitely a problem. Windows has offered the ability to control file associations since at least Win95, and I think it was possible in 3.1 as well...
Changing the default browser and email client and calendar and dialer aren't "theming" by any conventional definition, but the point made above about theming stands anyhow: it's a matter of personalization. It can also be a matter of functionality (for example, the built-in email client can't handle S/MIME encrypted email at all and has no PGP integration). Or a matter of usability (I use folders a lot; it's a pain needing to expand a menu to get to them)! Or something else... the important point is that it should be possible. Every OS comes with an email client, but every OS except iOS (and WP) allows you to change the default email client, too. This isn't even hard to implement (the relevant registry keys were present on WP7, at least; carrying over the API to control them wouldn't have been hard at all); it's once again a case of Microsoft intentionally restricting what you can do with your phone. If I wanted a mobile OS designed by a control freak, I'd buy an iPhone...
Nothing more really needs to be said here, except that with filesystem access (create a symlink or junction in the apps folder, for example) this would be possible...
Many BT profiles, such as HID devices (for mice and keyboards), are missing from WP8. So far as I know, apps can't use the Headset profile either; the pseudo-turn-by-turn navigation on WP7 would give its instructions via the car's BT if possible, but Nokia/Here Drive must use the phone's speakerphone speaker instead.
When I can change default browser and text editor, create my own themes, enable features that a ROM shipped disabled (have you seen the thread by the guy who can't get visual voicemail?), sideload high-privilege apps (without paying for the privilege), and remove root certificates of CAs that I don't trust (in WP7, these were stored in the registry), then I will stop considering the level of registry access to be a problem.
If they're from the store, they aren't really sideloaded, just downloaded on a different machine. I'm talking homebrew, stuff that the isn't yet, or never will be, or *can't* be (because it breaks some policy of Microsoft's, or requires high privileges to work) put in the store. Besides, many of the most popular WP8 models don't have an SD card slot at all.

GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only thing I can agree with you on is the file system, bluetooth, and not being able to override the default apps associations (seriously, the default apps is the most retarded idea ever).