This is my last semester before I graduate.
So, I decided to add my own Android application to my portfolio.
After a few meeting with my friends, we decide to create a game.
Our rough game's specs (Could be changed).
1. Collect all statistic locally, No statistic/central server.
(Low budget project)
2. 2d turn-base game, have some but not much amimations.
(Imagine a multi-player board game)
3. Multi-player over Bluetooth, WiFi or 3G. No single player.
4. Should playable on most of the 2.1 device
What we know/are learning
1. 3 years experience in mid-level Java programing (J2SE, J2EE)
2. 3 years experience in SQL-base database
3. 3 years experience in HTML, CSS, Javascript and Ajax
3. A year experience in Mid-level of Python, OpenGL
4. A year experience in Design pattern, Project Planing, Application Development
5. Android Application Development with Eclipes, Android SDK, JRE (In progress)
6. Titanium Appcelerator (In progress)
7. WebView, PhoneGap (In progress)
8. Publish into Android Market
Now, what we don't know/are questioning
1. Communication between android device
We decided not to use a statistic/central server. Which mean a device have to communicate to each other directly. We are not sure is it possible or not and how to accomplish that. Also some issues such as handle communication failure.
2. Approch
I'm not sure which language will be suited between C++ and Java (Best gaming experience, less issue, library/add-on support). Also still no clue which approch to go. Standard (SDK + Eclipes + JRE) or Titanium or WebView.
3. Device hardware difference
It will be not cool if this game can run smoothly on one device but laggy/false display on others. Most important question is the screen resolution.
4. Game engine
Still don't know that we need a game engine or not. Which one is suited to our project.
5. Server
We plan to go for commercial version in the future which will have more features such as Matchup, Ranking, Upgrade character and else. By the time, we do need a server right? If we do, do we need more than 1 server to handle global incoming connections?
6. What else should be take a look?
I'm currently spend my time to understaning all above question but advise from you guys would be much help. Correct me if I misunderstanding anything.
Thanks in advance, Sincere.
Still looking for answers
1. You will still need to use a central server, this server would keep track of all active(logged in ) accounts. This server will have the soul purpose of linking players or sending request from one player to another. As the ip address of our phones dynamic i see no way around this. For local games this is obviously a different story.
2. Depends on how gfx intensive your program is, if you are even semi fluent in ogl i would use this. But if not the standard Canvas android offers should be fine for 2d. I like c++, so i use java & c through jni. But if time is an issue(and u dont want headakes) i would just stick to java.
3. Android offers a compatibility mode which adapts software meant for one res to fit on others. I have zero experience in this so i can not elaborate on its effectiveness. if not with ogl it wouldnt be hard to make your program scalable to other resolutions. Tho of course you would have to alot of backend work to make sure it looks good. Wide ranging of devices is a huge plus for android users, huge headake for us devs :S.
4. If you are doing just a 2d board game ish game i dont think an actual game engine is needed...but w/e floats your boat.
5. Go to question 1. hehe.
6. No time, will comment later.
I am probably not as skilled dev as should be commenting in this thread, just fyi lol.
You can check out AndEngine as well, it is a free 2d opengl engine. It has a multiplayer extension based on java sockets but this part is incomplete, you should look out for more info on java.net.* for multiplayer purposes.
Another free opengl engine is Rokon.
Both use opengl es 1.0 and are compatible from android 1.6 onwards. I´m actually starting a 2d project based on AndEngine and have no complaints so far.
Since its not that intensive i woudn´t sugest to go for c++. I heard that not all devices are compatible with the ndk, but it is just hearsay, if some one can confirm this better.
@jug6ernaut
Thanks for your comment. Clarify me a lot.
About the server, do you have any suggestion where should I place/rent a server?
I'm living in south-east asia. I'm worry about lag issue will accur to US and Europe user when they communicate with server in this region. Our infrastructure is 10-20 years behind yours.
@rastanthology
Thanks for your comment. As you suggest, I think we will stick to Java as we planned. Plus, I'll take a look on AndEngine and Rokon.
1.- You don't need a webbased server for gameplay. You can just pair the devices over bluetooth or send the data over wifi (hell, if you wanted to make it really expensive and laggy, you could send the data over sms ). I think, connectivity wise this would be the way to go, not only because people some have data limitations in their phoneplan.
However, sending the gameplay data to a central server and distributing it back to the other player would make data collection and tracking easy, but that would be equally easy (and less data intensive for your data costs on your server) with a robust log you send to your server as you grow the game. Of course, even your peer-to-peer game will have a kind of client/server infrastructure, internally/programmaticaly speaking: maybe both devices run a client and a server, as you'll need classes/threads which send data, receive data and process data. Depending on the speed of the game and send/recieve speeds, you might want to have one of the devices be the one which has absolute say over timings/positions, or you might allow both devices to keep track and have some kind of collaborative conflict resolution
2.- pick the programming language you're best in. If you have to pick up c/c++ whilst you make the game, you're only doubling your frustration Make that be a factor in your choice of framework/engine, too. For a 'simple' game, you might just use pure java and libraries. For the game you're describing, you don't need the speed of c/c++. Nowhere near
3.- that's not a question 2D boardgames have a better chance of scaling well than even a 2d fast moving action game; I'd say that if you don't make it too complex (hundreds of transparent .png's simultaneously moving), most android devices should be able to run a 2 player boardgame without AI. Be sure to use suitable (correctly scaled etc) graphics, maybe even have multiple data sets for diff. devices.
4.- depends Sometimes, learning to use a game engine takes as much time as building those few things you need from scratch or using smaller routines/code/libraries. Design your program, find out what you need and then stack up "how much time will it take to build these classes/systems ourselves, to our exact specs" against "how much time will it take to find an engine which does kinda what we want, learn how to use the systems we want and modify them for what we want (and maybe not end up with exactly what we want)". Sometimes the (learning of the) engine is simple to learn and use, and saves you much time ... sometimes it doesn't
5.- yes. Depends on traffic (amount of connections, size of data). If you only sends logs etc and not realtime (gameplay) communications, you might have enough with one server. If you have many, many users, you might need more, and if the data has to have low latency, you will have to get more geographically situated servers.
6.- don't forget sound. Test your game on people. Prototype first, fast and often and don't be afraid to change the gameplay if what you prototype doesn't seem to be found "fun" by the people test your game
Good luck!
@MacDegger
Thanks so much. You just gave me a lot of Idea. I mean I can see the whole picture more clearly with your answer. Cheers!!
One more thing I want to know. If this game can be play only via BT or WIFI. Will people buy it?
As we plan to sell it in the market in the future. Even the gameplay is fun, nice or whatever. But, the game cant be play unless you have a friend with Android device and this game installed. That's sound not so interesting game anyways (at least for me).
I woudn't like to be pessimist but i don't think so. The best approach would be to release a free version with webview adds and a payed version add-less. From what i heard you might be receiving the same profit from both versions
rastanthology said:
I woudn't like to be pessimist but i don't think so. The best approach would be to release a free version with webview adds and a payed version add-less. From what i heard you might be receiving the same profit from both versions
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm thinking about that too.
Free version with adds and less feature.
Paid version without adds and full feature.
Still don't have a clue how google adds works. Pay for each view or something I guess.
XeCeL said:
I'm thinking about that too.
Free version with adds and less feature.
Paid version without adds and full feature.
Still don't have a clue how google adds works. Pay for each view or something I guess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
given my software is not very ad exploiting(live wallpaper so only shows ads in settings), but in my experience ads pay like crap. 4000+ hits and ive made like 36c. Most if not all coming from clicks on the ads.
jug6ernaut said:
given my software is not very ad exploiting(live wallpaper so only shows ads in settings), but in my experience ads pay like crap. 4000+ hits and ive made like 36c. Most if not all coming from clicks on the ads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, 4000+ hits but 36c I would better exclude it
At least with windows 7.x you could switch ROMs and side load useful apps, with this safeboot thing and Microsoft's lame attitude to give us more of the features and apps that we want it's no wonder why Windows Phone 8 fourms and blogs are so boring. Way to go Microsoft.
Agreed. I used to come here every day but, now it's once a week (kind of how it was on PPCgeeks.com). No roms, No interop unlocks, no unlocks period.
If you want more discussion about WP8, I suggest going to WPcentral.com...It's pretty active over there...
I really wish a hack of some type would hit, this is getting old. I just want my custom colors back (like I have with WP7).... Advanced Config I miss you !!!
Nobody has been able to find an exploit yet , but I don't really mind lack of activity in forms though as long as cobwebs don't settle upon the entire ecosystem itself we'll be fine
DavidinCT said:
Agreed. I used to come here every day but, now it's once a week (kind of how it was on PPCgeeks.com). No roms, No interop unlocks, no unlocks period.
If you want more discussion about WP8, I suggest going to WPcentral.com...It's pretty active over there...
I really wish a hack of some type would hit, this is getting old. I just want my custom colors back (like I have with WP7).... Advanced Config I miss you !!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea I agree that WP Central has lost more action going on but it's all the same stuff; I mean how many reviews of itsdagram, Facebook, Angry Birds and Skype can one handle before they get bored.
I always use to wonder why XDA turned into Android forum almost over night; now I know why its thanks to Microsoft. I feel sorry for Nokia though they took a big risk and now MS is being stubborn.
sinister1 said:
Yea I agree that WP Central has lost more action going on but it's all the same stuff; I mean how many reviews of itsdagram, Facebook, Angry Birds and Skype can one handle before they get bored.
I always use to wonder why XDA turned into Android forum almost over night; now I know why its thanks to Microsoft. I feel sorry for Nokia though they took a big risk and now MS is being stubborn.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, it's the same *****ing over there sometimes. Don't get me wrong, it's a good site if you want new and useful Windows Phone news. This site used to be a WM haven, just like PPCgeeks was. As that is all there was at the time, we had WM and BB...they were all mainly used by business people or hackers like ourselves.
WP7.x was pretty hackable after a while (with custom roms for most phones and interop unlock for about 90% of the models) so it was pretty active but, now with everyone moving to WP8 (ex WP7 users and converts) and No hacks yet, it's slowed down to almost nothing.
Android is mostly hackable and most phones have or NEED a custom rom, so this became a haven for Android users. And for now, as long as they are not going in this area and trolling, there is no issue with it or at least, I don't have an issue with it.
I do think it's a matter of time, they will find a exploit in WP8. I know why MS locked it down, once WP7 was hacked, it opened the doors for the pirates and some people took advantage if it. Sure there was some cool underground apps but, it just opened the system for the pirates. They wanted to lock down WP8 to make the higher end DEVs come and create the apps and games people want, to grow the system.
Nokia was paid pretty well to make a change to WP and over all they are doing very well with it...and their market is growing.
I'm stil deciding if I am going to pick up the Lumia 928 or stick with my HTC 8X(full price, Not giving up my unlimited data)....Hmmmmm... I just wish I could use Advanced Config to get my custom tile colors back
^stick with 8x at least till Nokia world sometime in September because surprises are on its way
Personally I like the very secure nature of my windows phone, I have rimmed more than my share of devices over the years, so its kind of refreshing to k ow this nuts hard to crack. Nokia did take a big risk but I think its been good for both companies. Nokia has done well with exclusive apps in a starved market and there devices are aimed well at a growing group of android overloaded users. With apps like tumble, netflix, Hulu and others coming over the devices are getting more main stream support and with time that will pay good dividends too. All in all I have found little reason to "root" this device other than for the hell of it. They come pretty lean on apps out of box. The biggest thing people seem to be trying to do is get tethering to work without paying out to a carrier for it. Personally if that's basically the reason your wanting to rom so bad, go back to android its far easier get going. I ramble now though, to sum up phone runs great unrommed, clean eco system and very secure setup makes for an all around pleasant device. I think special rimming is more or less unneeded for these devices. Been running unrommed windows mobile 7 and 8 now for about two years collectively. Have android tablets all rommed and a s3 rommed as a backup device.
Sent from my RM-878_nam_usa_100 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Meh... I considered WP7 without hacks to be nigh-unusable, even though I stuck with a stock ROM. No way to have apps open files automatically, for example (but I could manually add the registry entries, and could write apps that knew how to handle them). No way to access the filesystem (but I could sideload Kindle ebooks using homebrew file managers). No way back up app data or messages (except with homebrew). Minimal control of theming (as a class, this was one of the biggest homebrew categories). No real control over multitasking (I like that the default behavior is so conserving of battery life, but sometimes I don't *want* Puzzle Quest 2 or Fruit Ninja to have to go through its entire launch process just because I switched tasks or let the phone sleep for a bit!). Severe limit on sideloaded apps (I have over 30 of them, counting small utilities that that I developed, and not counting outdated versions, redundent apps, or anything else I removed). No listener sockets (though this didn't require a very fancy hack). No C++ code reuse (same as the server sockets). No way to tell how much space each app was using (but there's a homebrew for that).
WP8 fixes many of the worst problems. We can now register filetype handlers (though Kindle still doesn't register .MOBI or .PRC, so no more sideloading my ebooks for now...), use native code (with restrictions, but it's better than the default on WP7), and theme our phones (well, a litttttle bit more than before; still not enough). They added some much-requested features (SMS backup, variable text size, ability to control the browser app bar at least a bit, WiFi on while sleeping, Skype integration) and of course the change in OS brought many other improvements (multi-core, removable SD cards, higher resolutions, etc.). However, it still has some big problems of its own. True multitasking is still very limited. Data backup is still iffy. Still no filesystem access (or ability to do anything outside an app sandbox except the official Settings tools). Still very limited sideloading.
I promise you, though, people are working on it. I'm one of them, and several of the other names you know from WP7 hacking are as well.
People like GoodDayToDie & netham45 make the windows forums so much fun to follow
nikufellow said:
^stick with 8x at least till Nokia world sometime in September because surprises are on its way
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea but, I am on Verizon....After a release of a model it will take 6 months for Verizon to get a phone that is almost outdated on release.
The 8X is so limited on space that it's driving me nuts, If I find app or game I want to try, I have to uninstall a Paid app to install it. It's getting too old. 8X on format is 11.5gb and the Lumia 928 is 23.5gb, a little over double the space might be worth it, depending on what I can get it for, of course.
The blogs are dead because places like XDA that centralize around modding your phone to improve performance isn't necessary when WP8 software already performs flawlessly. Go to blogs like WPCentral and the Windows Phone community is alive and well swapping out our black Lumia shells for yellow and talking about games and apps. Pretty much doing what we should be doing on a phone, not repairing phones that came broken.
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
I've been wanting to root/unlock my Lumia for one purpose only, sideloading my own developed apps. It's gruesome to try an app in the emulator all the time, but in a month that will be fixed with an AppHub account. And after that my real purpose for rooting/unlocking is gone.
Always fun to see what's possible on the unlocked device though, code-wise.
Sent from my Lumia 920 using Board Express
GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If there is one thing I do not understand about the new SDK APIs, is why on earth an app can not register itself to open file formats reserved by the system. IMO thats the most retarded idea ever implemented in the history of computing. And to make the retarded thing completely retarded, they made it so most common files are handled by system apps, so you can not override the file association.
I am really wondering what is microsoft going to do about these things. If they really want a marketplace full of games, facebook, youtube and instagram apps, then they should stick to their current plan. WP will never get useful in a broad sense.
I hope the update this fall brings new stuff, otherwise the platform will die soon.
GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? ... You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although I don't agree with much of his bill-of-particulars, I have to agree with GDTD's sentiment.
Probably, modders need to correct deficiencies. I'm down with MS or anybody else who steps up. I'm in no hurry to crack my OS open right now, though.
I am especially offended at Microsoft's pitiful PDF reader attempt. And some of the apps in the store make me squint. I want to see the author "Google" emblazoned on my YouTube app, not a third party dev. I sure hope MS is putting these apps under a microscope.
The joy of homebrew (and of a developer forum, like this one) is, even if your goals are different from mine, it's possible for you to make your own changes to the device. It's yours; you control it. That's what security *means*, or at least what it's supposed to mean: you (the owner) are in control of what happens.
Ever since the iPhone, though, the trend has been twoards more and more lockdown, taking control away from the device owner and branding this as "security". I don't like it, so I aim to break it. Ideally, we break it in ways that only work with a local attack; I don't want somebody else able to control my device (that really would be the opposite of security)... but I do want to control it myself!
Part of the problem is that there have been no updates in recent months. Portico came out, Nokia dropped some new firmwares last month. But largely, nothing has changed in WP8 since launch. Personally, I find that boring. Maybe I should have an Android phone on the side to keep me entertained with updates, but I find Windows Phone much more usable day-to-day.
It has been more than 6 months since the WP8 launch, and GDR1 didn't really add much. Microsoft should have planned to have GDR2 out by now, even if it meant postponing some features for GDR3. I think most of us would rather have small quarterly updates to WP8, rather than a massive upgrade once a year. It's starting to feel like WP7 and the Mango anticipation all over again, now that it sounds like WP8.1 might be delayed into 2014. Hopefully they come through with their vaporware enthusiast program to keep our attention in the meantime.
I agree with the OP. Cobwebs on this side of the section totally. A thread in a week may be? But there is something I often read on many forums. People who are happy (I know it's a very wide term) with their devices, I.e don't run into problems with their devices, see no need to lurk around. So actually, it is a good sign. It shows how well-thought after a WP device is.
And GoodDayToDie, even though I agree with everything u've noted down, I don't quite believe WP needs all of that.
Still no app data backup machanism. - Umm...Data Sense?
Still no custom themes. - Fair Enough, but again, WP IS NOT meant to be themed to the T
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC. - I believe this is for security reasons.
Still no filesystem access. - Why do you even want that when the system is running flawless, (yes the same word u scorned at.)
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?) - LOL! You gotta be kidding me right?
Android has the worst permission management I have ever seen in my adult life. Android gives wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy more information out than any OS out there.
Still no way remove "Settings" apps. Umm..u sure u want that?
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking). Multi-tasking is really good with WP8.
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it). - Fair enough, but not a deal breaker either.
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer. - I believe you are again entering the territory of themeing, already replied above. Every OS comes with it's own email client. I don't see the point here.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card. - Fair enough. By far the best point in your list.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth. - In what way?
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry. - Again, WHY? WHy mend it when it's not broken.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps - U can download the app(paid or otherwise) from the App store on your computer, put it on the SD card and say install from the Store App on the phone. Simple?
DataSense has nothing even remotely to do with backing up (and restoring) app data; where'd you get that idea? Vital feature that homebrew eventually made avaialble in WP7 but is missing in WP8.
"IS NOT meant" nothing! Somewhere under all that sandboxing and locked-down UI is a general-purpose OS running on top of highly capable hardware. It's "meant" to be whatever the owner fo the device *wants* it to be, including (in the case of many, many people if the popularity of WP7 homebrew apps is any sign) theming. Stop being an apologist for Microsoft; it's one thing to say "extensive theming wasn't implemented because other features were higher priority" but when you start trying to tell me that I'm not supposed to theme it, you seriously need to put down the Kool-Ade. Besides, the very claim is ludicrous to the point of disingenious; have you *seen* the WP8 ads? They all stress the customizability of the Start screen. To the point of suggesting you can "meet" a person simply through how they have their phone set up... those ads freaking scream "customize me!" Then you discover there's only a handful of pre-set colors, two background styles, and the ability to mess with the tiles; nothing else.
No, it is quite absolutely *not* for "security" reasons. Security means the owner of the device controlling the device's behavior. If somebody else (like, for example, the manufacturer of the device) is controlling its behavior, that is not security; it's lockdown. The sideloading restriction can only be called security if it's not your device but actually belongs to Microsft. Screw that. Besides, that argument makes no sense anyhow; if I can pay my $99 and sideload with a PC, why can't I sideload without one (or without paying)? The marketplace has DRM to mitigate piracy and that's a darn weak excuse to cripple a device anyhow.
When I can load my Puzzle Quest 2 savegames and other game progress and high scores, copy my PGP keychain, sideload my Kindle ebooks into the Kindle app (yes, this is possible on WP7), extract or replace the built-in audio files, and delete the junk which accumulates in the OS and uses up storage space (without hard resetting the device), then I will stop considering the level of filesystem access a problem. Until then, "running flawless" is quite worthy of scorn indeed.
Wow, I seriously question your reading comprehension. I never mentioned Android in this point, or anywhere else (except to point out that it has a lot of homebrew). But, for your information, the default permissions / capabilities handling in Android is just as broken as in WP8. The difference is that with Android, it is possible (CyanogenMOD did this, for example) to install apps without actually granting them all the permissions they ask for. On WP7, this wasn't properly possible yet, but I was working on a system to do it that hooked the app install process and allowed people to uncheck app capabilities they didn't want to permit.
Um yes, I'd like to remove the non-functioning Samsung apps (until they are fixed) that are taking up space on my phone's storage and making the Settings list longer. I can always re-install them if needed. Every other carrier or OEM app is removable; why should these get special treatment just because they have a field in their app manifest that says "install me in the Settings hub"?
Multitasking - true multitasking, where multiple apps can run at once - is nigh-nonexistent on WP8. Aside from things like audio background agents and once-every-30-minutes-you-get-a-few-seconds-of-CPU-time scheduled tasks, there basically isn't any multitasking (of third-party apps) at all. Fast app switching is *not* multitasking; every app aside from the main one is suspended, unable to do amything until brought into the foreground.
Changing file associations obviusly isn't a deal-breaker, or I wouldn't be using the phone... but definitely a problem. Windows has offered the ability to control file associations since at least Win95, and I think it was possible in 3.1 as well...
Changing the default browser and email client and calendar and dialer aren't "theming" by any conventional definition, but the point made above about theming stands anyhow: it's a matter of personalization. It can also be a matter of functionality (for example, the built-in email client can't handle S/MIME encrypted email at all and has no PGP integration). Or a matter of usability (I use folders a lot; it's a pain needing to expand a menu to get to them)! Or something else... the important point is that it should be possible. Every OS comes with an email client, but every OS except iOS (and WP) allows you to change the default email client, too. This isn't even hard to implement (the relevant registry keys were present on WP7, at least; carrying over the API to control them wouldn't have been hard at all); it's once again a case of Microsoft intentionally restricting what you can do with your phone. If I wanted a mobile OS designed by a control freak, I'd buy an iPhone...
Nothing more really needs to be said here, except that with filesystem access (create a symlink or junction in the apps folder, for example) this would be possible...
Many BT profiles, such as HID devices (for mice and keyboards), are missing from WP8. So far as I know, apps can't use the Headset profile either; the pseudo-turn-by-turn navigation on WP7 would give its instructions via the car's BT if possible, but Nokia/Here Drive must use the phone's speakerphone speaker instead.
When I can change default browser and text editor, create my own themes, enable features that a ROM shipped disabled (have you seen the thread by the guy who can't get visual voicemail?), sideload high-privilege apps (without paying for the privilege), and remove root certificates of CAs that I don't trust (in WP7, these were stored in the registry), then I will stop considering the level of registry access to be a problem.
If they're from the store, they aren't really sideloaded, just downloaded on a different machine. I'm talking homebrew, stuff that the isn't yet, or never will be, or *can't* be (because it breaks some policy of Microsoft's, or requires high privileges to work) put in the store. Besides, many of the most popular WP8 models don't have an SD card slot at all.
GoodDayToDie said:
Flawlessly? Ahahahahaha
Still no app data backup machanism.
Still no custom themes.
Still no way to sideload XAP files (unless they are "company apps") without a PC.
Still no filesystem access.
Still no way to control the permissions an app has (what if I want to use the app, but don't want to give it access to my camera?)
Still no way remove "Settings" apps.
Still no way to do true multitasking (not the restricted and often crippled things that the official APIs call multitasking).
Still no way to overwrite file associations (you can choose them when opening a file that multiple apps claim to support, but that's it).
Still no way to change the default browser or email client or dialer.
Still no way to install apps to the SD card.
Still have only limited access to Bluetooth.
Still no way to browse, much less edit, the registry.
Still no way to sideload large numbers of (non-"company") apps.
...
Seriously, go look at the list of things that are possible with WP7 homebrew (never mind WinMo or Android or iOS), and then see how many of them are possible with WP8 right now. It's a joke. MS added some (much needed) features, but also took away some things that I think are vitally important, and took away our ability to re-create them for the new OS... unless and until we break it as we have broken OSes in the past.
You imply that WP8 didn't come "broken" and therefore doesn't need modding? Bull.
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Click to collapse
The only thing I can agree with you on is the file system, bluetooth, and not being able to override the default apps associations (seriously, the default apps is the most retarded idea ever).
I've been thinking about how all these new apps are out now that would work great on my old NST if only it ran a more recent version of Android. I saw on the old l337 thread that the NST is confirmed to be able to run more adavanced versions, but that we'd have to pull the files from a phone or other, much more powerful device, rendering the resulting ROM pretty much unusable.
Until, that is, the Nook Glowlight Plus and 3 came along. The NG+ and NG3 run Android 4.4.2. 4.4 Android could mean being able to run apps like Overdrive and Libby, without workarounds. And that would be pretty sweet.
Now these are two different devices. I'm having a hard time finding data on the difference between the guts beyond the fact that the newer models have a higher DPI screen. I'd guess they have similar amount of processing speed to preserve battery life, though maybe more RAM.
I did a little googling, and I found this CM11 Mod but it looks like it it fizzled out after getting pretty close.
Do we think this can be done?
Was wondering about this the other day. There are an awful lot of NSTs floating around ebay for US$15 now. It would be fun to be able to breathe a little life into them, if only to use them for displays of calendars, to-do lists, or anything else you can do with more modern android apps
jptiger said:
There are an awful lot of NSTs floating around ebay for US$15 now.
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The NST, NSTG and the first Glowlight used TI OMAP3621 processors.
The Glow2, 3, 4 use Freescale (now NXP) iMX6SL processors.
That's quite a difference.
I don't think that anything would be compatible.
jptiger said:
Was wondering about this the other day. There are an awful lot of NSTs floating around ebay for US$15 now. It would be fun to be able to breathe a little life into them, if only to use them for displays of calendars, to-do lists, or anything else you can do with more modern android apps
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Click to collapse
Oh, I'm going to promise not to look at ebay!!! Three devices are enough, even at that price. But it's very tempting. Too bad the NSTGs are rare as hens teeth and always high priced. Then there is a screen artifact issue. The one I finally got has three, but it's not too bad, I guess.
Other than watching movies or live TV (both of which, admittedly, are actually possible with the NST if you can stand it), it seems to me these devices are still wonderfully versatile. With a minimal installation of GApps you can have all the calendar displays you want, to-do-lists, etc. For some of these applications, there are still apps that work fine. For other uses (you dream it up) it's amazing what can be done with Tasker to create an app that looks like "the real thing". And while the learning curve for Tasker is a little steep, baby steps and lots of online help and examples are available.
The one clear drawback is almost anything that requires a login. The fact that Overdrive has not yet been hacked to address this issue is probably due to a lack of interest from a person with the proper expertise (not me). But really, selecting a library book on Opera Mobile from your local library? I'd sooner slit my wrists. Books can still be downloaded to a PC and then transferred to the NST via Adobe's software (or you can get around the whole DRM issue if you wish). And, you can get mobi format books from most libraries now and they will still magically appear in your Kindle app
That said, having flashed a Nook Tablet with CM 11 (KitKat), I can attest that there are still issues with that less-old Android version. For example, you can't view XDA properly in any browser. You have to go back to an earlier skin which has tiny print and is most annoying. In fact you can't get to some sites at all with any browser. And the OS returns SSL errors for some operations with other apps. So KitKat is no panacea. Even so, I like my Nook Tablet running CM 11. It's an 8 GB version and so has limited RAM and storage. Therefore I have scaled down my usual apps to some essentials and things it is really good at. In fact, it has fewer apps on it than my NST!
Every one of those NSTs on ebay is a treasure. But I'm not going to look!!!!
Renate NST said:
I don't think that anything would be compatible.
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Click to collapse
I meant as fas as kernel, various hardware libraries.
nmyshkin said:
Other than watching movies or live TV (both of which, admittedly, are actually possible with the NST if you can stand it), it seems to me these devices are still wonderfully versatile. With a minimal installation of GApps you can have all the calendar displays you want, to-do-lists, etc. For some of these applications, there are still apps that work fine. For other uses (you dream it up) it's amazing what can be done with Tasker to create an app that looks like "the real thing". And while the learning curve for Tasker is a little steep, baby steps and lots of online help and examples are available.
The one clear drawback is almost anything that requires a login. The fact that Overdrive has not yet been hacked to address this issue is probably due to a lack of interest from a person with the proper expertise (not me).
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Click to collapse
Thanks for the thorough response! I didn't realize you could do so much! I was envisioning having three mounted on walls in various places in my apartment, one with an interactive Google calendar, one with my to-do list from Any.do, and one with a local transit app that shows if there are delays on specific trains etc. (though I guess that one might wait until we're all using public transit again...) I've never used Tasker before, do you have any suggestions of resources or guides on getting it to replicate any functionality like this on an NST?
nmyshkin said:
Every one of those NSTs on ebay is a treasure. But I'm not going to look!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good luck! Save your money and vicariously help me do stuff with them?
jptiger said:
Thanks for the thorough response! I didn't realize you could do so much! I was envisioning having three mounted on walls in various places in my apartment, one with an interactive Google calendar, one with my to-do list from Any.do, and one with a local transit app that shows if there are delays on specific trains etc. (though I guess that one might wait until we're all using public transit again...) I've never used Tasker before, do you have any suggestions of resources or guides on getting it to replicate any functionality like this on an NST?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is only one version of Tasker that will run on the NST/G (check your PM). It is designed to run in the background and execute tasks from shortcuts on the home screen or automatically start a series of tasks based on some trigger (time of day, opening a specific app, connection to WiFi, etc.). I originally used it to automatically start WiFi for apps that needed it. This is definitely a "baby step" idea. I don't use Tasker as a background service any longer. There is a companion app called AppFactory which takes your Tasker routines and converts them into stand-alone apps that anyone can run (with the caveat that either GApps must be installed or else two small Maps library files would need to be copied onto the device--actually this is a dependency for Tasker itself also). You can see many examples of "apps" I have created in this fashion in the last section of this forum. You design your own GUI to fit the NST/G screen. Tasks can vary from a simple activity call to website data scraping and massaging (definitely advanced) and more.
AppFactory will not run on the NST/G. It requires Android 2.2. I have a KitKat device which will run both the ancient version of Tasker and also AppFactory, so after I finish designing and testing the routines on the NST I move all the files over to the KitKat device and compile with AppFactory. The resulting app can be installed on the NST and behaves just like any other app (and does not require the presence of Tasker to run).
A lot of patience is required to get things right, especially if you want a full-screen GUI since Tasker seems to hate screen edges and when you edit a screen containing a near-full-screen image it tends to resize it a little smaller, throwing off other elements. Fixing this requires hand-editing the coordinates in the xml files which describe the scene elements. Also, because the file structure on the NST is not the same as on a KitKat device, references to images have to be edited by hand before (or after) moving files to the second device to compile. For example, "/media/" might need to be changed to "/storage/external_SD/Pictures/" or similar. Also, the touch screen on the NST is not always as responsive as we might like.
Finally, there is one one last fly in the ointment, so to speak. Tasker will not install on FW 1.2.2 for some reason unless it is resigned. When it is resigned, it ceases to interact properly with plugin apps (things like RotationLocker, or Minimalistic Text, as examples). The compiled apps will work properly, but testing on the NST is problematic if you are referencing plugins. On FW 1.2.1 everything works properly. Since I have three devices (gulp) I kept one on FW 1.2.1 to help me with this issue.
There is a Tasker Wiki with many examples, but just Googling will yield all kinds of things. There is a guy (Hollywood Frodo) who created all kinds of videos from the basic to the exotic and I found some of those very helpful. Finally, there is a Tasker Google group where--to judge by my personal experience--no question is too stupid!