Related
There definitely needs to be at least a 20 post limit before making a new topic in the dev forum. I have seen many useless threads about issues that dont really exist and questions that should be in the Q&A section by people with 1-3 posts. I doubt anyone below 20 posts is going to contribute anything useful(hell i say 100, but im being nice) to the dev section, and even if they do, who is going to trust flashing something from a new user? Posting in currently open threads should not be limited, just creating new topics. Any opposed?
I think the developer section should be read only unless you're approved.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk
Coming from a guy with less than 20 posts I agree. I don't post a lot as you can tell but when I want to look to see if there is anything new out on the development side I get tired of seeing useless post that should be here or in Q&A. I think a post requirement would lower the useless threads
Sent via the Sprint HTC EVO
same here.
deleted because I didn't read the title properly.
I agree
10 char
Just look at how better organized the dev section is for the nexus. Im not saying they shouldnt be able to post at all, just not create new topics.
Nexus dev forum: http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=559
I disagree, I think that posting a new topic in the development forum should be restricted somehow. Maybe by invite that is easy to apply for and easier to lose. If it were restricted by post count, we could be alienating new devs from other sites or phones. I think that topic starters in the development forum should be able to lock out non-developers from commenting if they want also. Its very frustrating to me (not a developer) when I am trying to read a development thread and its full of people making dumb comments or 300 posts thanking the developer while I'm trying to read the thread for something useful.
k2snowboards88 said:
I disagree, I think that posting a new topic in the development forum should be restricted somehow. Maybe by invite that is easy to apply for and easier to lose. If it were restricted by post count, we could be alienating new devs from other sites or phones.
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Valid point...
Sent via the Sprint HTC EVO
k2snowboards88 said:
I disagree, I think that posting a new topic in the development forum should be restricted somehow. Maybe by invite that is easy to apply for and easier to lose. If it were restricted by post count, we could be alienating new devs from other sites or phones. I think that topic starters in the development forum should be able to lock out non-developers from commenting if they want also. Its very frustrating to me (not a developer) when I am trying to read a development thread and its full of people making dumb comments or 300 posts thanking the developer while I'm trying to read the thread for something useful.
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Its all about trying to get your post count higher in order to make yourself look good.haha.......
I do agree on some kind of restriction, but how is one supose to get a post count of 20 if you cant post.
lostinroot:) said:
Its all about trying to get your post count higher in order to make yourself look good.haha.......
I do agree on some kind of restriction, but how is one supose to get a post count of 20 if you cant post.
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Thing is, the board is able to do builtin post minimum blocking i believe. It cant do the other fancy application things and what not.
And you can always post everywhere else.
k2snowboards88 said:
If it were restricted by post count, we could be alienating new devs from other sites or phones.
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I really agree with this. There are plenty of people with good ideas who only bother to register when they have something interesting to share.
It might also be worthwhile to create a few sub-forums under the development forum. For example: one for ROMs, one for known fixes and one for fixes under development.
Richard
Mast3rpyr0 said:
And you can always post everywhere else.
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So are you suggesting that a new member with a worthwhile development idea should post in the General forum?
donatom3 said:
I think the developer section should be read only unless you're approved.
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I agree under one condition... If I'm approved.
I agree.
I would also suggest that there be a panel established for "Jr. Members" to prove themselves worthy of posting in the dev section. That would enable devs new to the forum to have a voice and post worthwhile thoughts. The rest of us can just sit back and read!
ramiss said:
So are you suggesting that a new member with a worthwhile development idea should post in the General forum?
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I mean if you want to flash something made by someone with 2 posts then go head, but i most certainly will not. 20 posts was not hard at all, even without just posting crap. All you gotta do is find a few threads your interested in and post a few things in them and you got em.
k2snowboards88 said:
I disagree, I think that posting a new topic in the development forum should be restricted somehow. Maybe by invite that is easy to apply for and easier to lose. If it were restricted by post count, we could be alienating new devs from other sites or phones. I think that topic starters in the development forum should be able to lock out non-developers from commenting if they want also. Its very frustrating to me (not a developer) when I am trying to read a development thread and its full of people making dumb comments or 300 posts thanking the developer while I'm trying to read the thread for something useful.
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i agree the op should have mini admin powers to basically lock out people who are offering no help or productivity to the thread. of course it has to be approved by a real admin, you know like if i started a development thread and someone posted something stupid i could flag that user and ask an admin to basically make it so i have to approve their posts...it wouldn't create more work for admins it would make more work for the original poster, BUT if the original poster felt that these people are actually doing a disservice to their thread then i would imagine they would put in the time to edit out the dumb posts.
Mast3rpyr0 said:
I mean if you want to flash something made by someone with 2 posts then go head, but i most certainly will not. 20 posts was not hard at all, even without just posting crap. All you gotta do is find a few threads your interested in and post a few things in them and you got em.
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As you said, 20 posts is not hard to reach... yet that somehow would qualify a poster to then be able to post in the Dev area??? Fuzzy logic there. I don't think post count should matter one way or another, it's just another way to discriminate against people for no reason. What says that the more posts you have, the more important your contributions to the community? Nothing.
I do agree that I most likely would not flash a rom that was posted up by a new member, unless I really just wanted to test and had nothing to lose. Many people here have more than one device and can flash without worrying about interrupting their phone service.
Bottom line, someone could have 500 posts, with nothing real to contribue inside of those posts, and later, post a lame rom that isn't worth the time it takes to flash it. Whereas, another user could only have 1 post to say hello, and be very savvy in the dev arena, who happens to post up a kickass rom that everyone wants. Post count shouldn't be a determining factor.
Jye75 said:
As you said, 20 posts is not hard to reach... yet that somehow would qualify a poster to then be able to post in the Dev area??? Fuzzy logic there. I don't think post count should matter one way or another, it's just another way to discriminate against people for no reason. What says that the more posts you have, the more important your contributions to the community? Nothing.
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Not true.
The implication is that since you have more posts, (200 +, IMO), one should be familiar with what questions to ask, the manner in which to ask them, and be able to understand the answer given. That said; I know there *some* people with high post counts that may not be as "technical" or knowledgeable, though there input is just as valid as anyone else's (if you really don't want to discriminate). Conversely, I've seen people with 20 posts who have made great contributions as well, technical or not.
In regards to this thread, I think the way XDA does its moderation is fine. Though it would be nice to have have restrictions on new users, one of the major reasons why we shouldn't is because, you can't gauge a new user's level of skill/knowledge via there post count, but rather what they contribute.
Sure the majority of new users may not know anything about Android or be technical, but often, when a new phone comes out (like the EVO) there have been "new users" who come from other Android forums (SDX, AC, PPG, etc) and contribute right off the bat (first post even -- e.g. Calkulin, Joeykrim, etc) because they were top developers in there respective previous forums; however not many people would know that and right away asssume that there initial posts may not be as credible as someone with 200+ posts. My point is gauging the level of "knowledge, technical skill, etc" based on ones post count isn't really reliable, rather people should focus there attention on what the OP's has to say about the topic at hand and his/her contributions overall.
I see no reason to limit new users, especially with a forum such as this one, where a new users curiosity is thriving to get answers and ask questions because they want to see what his/her new Android phone is capable of. We were all in the same boat at one point, we probably Googled "How to root the "X" and XDA was the first on the list, thus the reason for us being here now.
Open Source means contribution by whomever (technical user or non-technical user) it shouldn't matter. Whatever can better this community to allow each individual to get the best experience out of his/her device, is what the aim should be. Ultimately however, it would be nice if the person who has received something also contribute back to the community in some way or another, creating an endless cycle of new and ever changing questions, answers, ideas, and contributions for us all.
pseudoremora said:
Not true.
Really? Your post contradicts you.
The implication is that since you have more posts, (200 +, IMO), one should be familiar with what questions to ask, the manner in which to ask them, and be able to understand the answer given. That said; I know there *some* people with high post counts that may not be as "technical" or knowledgeable, though there input is just as valid as anyone else's (if you really don't want to discriminate). Conversely, I've seen people with 20 posts who have made great contributions as well, technical or not.
In regards to this thread, I think the way XDA does its moderation is fine. Though it would be nice to have have restrictions on new users, one of the major reasons why we shouldn't is because, you can't gauge a new user's level of skill/knowledge via there post count, but rather what they contribute.
Sure the majority of new users may not know anything about Android or be technical, but often, when a new phone comes out (like the EVO) there have been "new users" who come from other Android forums (SDX, AC, PPG, etc) and contribute right off the bat (first post even -- e.g. Calkulin, Joeykrim, etc) because they were top developers in there respective previous forums; however not many people would know that and right away asssume that there initial posts may not be as credible as someone with 200+ posts. My point is gauging the level of "knowledge, technical skill, etc" based on ones post count isn't really reliable, rather people should focus there attention on what the OP's has to say about the topic at hand and his/her contributions overall.
I see no reason to limit new users, especially with a forum such as this one, where a new users curiosity is thriving to get answers and ask questions because they want to see what his/her new Android phone is capable of. We were all in the same boat at one point, we probably Googled "How to root the "X" and XDA was the first on the list, thus the reason for us being here now.
Open Source means contribution by whomever (technical user or non-technical user) it shouldn't matter. Whatever can better this community to allow each individual to get the best experience out of his/her device, is what the aim should be. Ultimately however, it would be nice if the person who has received something also contribute back to the community in some way or another, creating an endless cycle of new and ever changing questions, answers, ideas, and contributions for us all.
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Yes, one would HOPE that this implication holds true, however, since it's not a guaranteed truth, it doesn't stand to reason that post count should be the qualifying factor in deciding if one could post or not. As far as the rest of your post goes, you and I are on the same page.
Ok, is this *normal* that one by one the devs (jac, kk, sombionix and the rest of tw, and now - eugene373) proclaimed, effectively, that are abandoning (at least to a certain degree) xda? Their personal conflicts (which are unlikely our business) aside, is there anything else that feeds this tendency? In particular, are the xda modes doing enough (or anything at all?) to diffuse and perhaps reverse the trend? Or am I wrong to assume that this would be their business? I witnessed that 90% of (sane) xda members are being as supportive as ever to devs. There are, of course, the challenged ones, but it's the internet. So I don't see anything that regular (sane) members did wrong. And yet the facts are... disturbing.
P.S. Oh, and, after a week of admiring 'wannaby modes' nonsense here, do you mind not telling me that this thread doesn't belong to general or is off-topic? The point of this is to discuss if anything can be done to prevent that many see as an unfortunate trend in *vibrant* section.
I don't know about JAC or KK, because they are the older developers who works on the I9000 model before I even get a chance to visit XDA.
I believe that Team Whiskey moved out because they want to have their own support forum, with dedicated Donator Section for their supporters. Also to provide more ROM specific support for their ROMS.
As for Eugene, I am not too sure, but it may be due to people no respecting his work?
P.S. When did Eugene said that he is 'leaving' XDA?
He never said this. But he explicitly said that he is abandoning specific xda threads (which is, obviously, his full right) and will be posting only on his site.
i can understand this. Its starting to turn into a business, if they want to post their work that they put time into on their own website, that is their full right, and it makes sense. And it shouldnt be that big of a deal, its not that hard to make an account on either of their websites to gain access to their forums. So if they want to make their ROM's a little more private, then i give permission haha
While it's unfortunate, it seems pretty necessary to me. It's impossible to continue to have all discussion on a particular ROM in a single thread. It makes it much harder to find bug reports, for example. So having your own forum and website dedicated to your own ROM makes sense.
Just because they're leaving XDA doesn't mean they're gonna stop coding. And all of the devs know quite well that XDA is the best place to inform people about their ROMs.
Oh well I hope team whiskey makes a mobile app for theyre site
Still flashing , thanks to odin
Just for your knowledge..
KK was banned
JAC well know one knows
But just because most of us are opening our own sites doesnt mean we are going to jump away from XDA.
XDA is a great way to get our names out there..
Our personal sites are just so you guys have all our work in one location & can ask more questions or request features there. (Or that is was I do)
Keeping it classy, o yeah.
XDA is the hub... their sites are the gold mines.
Keep supporting the developers as much as you can, and that Vibrant is going to always be in tip-top form.
Master™ said:
Just for your knowledge..
KK was banned
JAC well know one knows
But just because most of us are opening our own sites doesnt mean we are going to jump away from XDA.
XDA is a great way to get our names out there..
Our personal sites are just so you guys have all our work in one location & can ask more questions or request features there. (Or that is was I do)
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I missed what kk was banned for possibly a little before my time here
Still flashing , thanks to odin
I try to keep the Wiki updated with information. Although it is not mine to house hold so if anyone else want to add their 2 cents to the wiki please do so. Eugene just want to post his stuff in his forum for what the other people mentioned. Which is his full right. And is still going to keep tabs on XDA as it is a good place to get together.
reuthermonkey said:
While it's unfortunate, it seems pretty necessary to me. It's impossible to continue to have all discussion on a particular ROM in a single thread. It makes it much harder to find bug reports, for example. So having your own forum and website dedicated to your own ROM makes sense.
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Ok, so maybe the xda mods need to show a bit more flexibility to better accommodate devs needs? Check either TW or Eugene's forums. Essentially, they replicate (nearly 1:1) the structure of xda vibrant sections. I understand that devs want more control over their threads and better organization. But it seems to me that it wouldn’t be that hard to implement the same right here:
A) create a separate sticky for each developer’s project
B) give devs certain mod rights within their threads
Again, I am certainly not against personal web sites, etc. And in no way am I trying to critisize the devs here (obviously it's their right to do whatever they feel like doing!). I am just trying to understand if xda is adopting to the situation. Maybe some small changes at xda can help to prevent the further devs fragmentation. I think nobody would want to see xda becoming just a hub for links to personal sites. Discussion, exchange of ideas, healthy competition (ok, this one may need to be put on hold for a while), comparative reviews like the one that swehes is doing are SO MUCH better when devs are actively participating.
EDIT: Actually, I suspect that if devs had a right to edit their own threads, some (if not most) conflicts would have never become public at the first place.
Bonsai team just released v4.0.0 based on EC05. That's awesome!!
The thread was shortly thereafter closed by scotsman with the folling message
Thread closed until it complies with forum rules.
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With all due respect to scotsman and the other mods (and much is due), this sort of moderation is very frustrating to the community, and sure to create more work and headaches for you guys than simply expending a tiny, miniscule bit of additional effort when you take actions like this:
Explain specifically what the non-compliance is/was.
No one probably would care in the case of the five billionth "Samsung sucks" thread. On a thread like the Bonsai release thread, however, or any similarly popular argulably important (to the community) thread, it is only prudent to be a bit more explanatory when such a severe action is taken.
I was able to successfully get the release, of course. That's not the issue. I have some comments I'd like to post; a few questions too. Failing to see what rule violation has taken place, after reading the thread, I'm left confused, frustrated, and (right or wrong) feeling abused by the moderator (mildly so, to be sure).
Second, there seems to be a catch-22 here: If the thread is non-compliant somehow, and has been closed until it can be made compliant, one is left wondering: How can that happen if the thread is closed?
Scotsman, please update your closure post to help the community better understand what is going on. Save yourself, and the community, some grief. The effort is less than it will take to reply to this thread.
From my understanding it is because you have to register on their site to download it.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Correct. Download links are not supposed to be posted on sites that require registration. Not to mention the method they do so acts more like a shopping cart/buying system than a download system. It gives a very bad image, and they need to rectify it.
I mean this sincerely, but wouldn't it have been easier to PM the moderator who closed this so that your concerns could be addressed correctly and efficiently?
Honestly I'm glad it was closed. And if you register for that website, you'll see it's money money money, donate here, give us that there... if you want money for it, fine. Sell it. I already have to register for enough crap, I don't need to register for anymore.
Scotsman, keep up the great work that you do!
kelmar13 said:
I mean this sincerely, but wouldn't it have been easier to PM the moderator who closed this so that your concerns could be addressed correctly and efficiently?
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No.
Further, the answers provided here would not have been available to the community. I would have had to post a thread anyway with the answer, hence "not easier".
You may disagree that this information justifies public airing. That's fair. We simply disagree with each other.
But the moderator already said that it wasn't in compliance with forum rules....
Oh well, I'm not worried about it....
Seems petty that XDA is so closed a forum, considering it supports Android, which is supposed to be open source
I "may" understand if it was linking to somewhere where you HAD to pay, but the website only required you to register, not pay.
Seems no one is "allowed" to provide helpful links to anywhere else, kinda sad for an "open source" website.
Actions like that by Mods devastate a community even worse then even the harshest of trolls
Just another example why XDA has the bad rep it does.
byersbw said:
Honestly I'm glad it was closed. And if you register for that website, you'll see it's money money money, donate here, give us that there... if you want money for it, fine. Sell it. I already have to register for enough crap, I don't need to register for anymore.
Scotsman, keep up the great work that you do!
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I completely understand your POV, and it has merit. I don't agree with it (I find it quite easy to spend maybe 30 seconds registering and clicking past the entreaties to donate).
If it violates the forum rules, they should be enforced. I have no problem with that.
What I do have a problem with is mysterious closures of threads. While some here are well-versed on the forum rules, most are not. And even those of us that have read through them in their entirety do not necessarily spot the reason for a closure.
When the specific reason can be so easily put in the closure post, and of course the mod that made the decision knows precisely why they are closing it, it simply is not reasonable to expect thousands of other members to have to go back and commit the equivalent of legal research in the forum rules to figure out what the mod could simply have articulated with a short sentence.
The latter would serve the community far better -- and isn't that a core responsibility of mods?
The forum has the rules it does, and frankly, I don't think the issue of the Bonsai team's approach here to distribution is worth arguing about. It would be an exercise in mental masturbation that would never come to any resolution. Some people are highly irritated by their approach to soliciting donations, some aren't bothered at all (me, for instance). Regardless, they should follow the rules when posting here.
None of that has anything to do with how moderators do their jobs. I have no particularly pointed criticism for scotsman, or any other mod w.r.t. to this issue. Rather, I am suggesting a way to better serve their "customers", and make their own job here easier. They can consider it, or ignore it.
dwallersv said:
(I find it quite easy to spend maybe 30 seconds registering and clicking past the entreaties to donate).
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For what it's worth, I had issues registering and actually getting to the download when I tested it. That has nothing to do with the merit of an off-site download or the need to register, of course.
kelmar13 said:
But the moderator already said that it wasn't in compliance with forum rules....
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An entirely informationless reason.
That's the reason that every closed thread gets closed. It isn't enlightening at all.
dwallersv said:
An entirely informationless reason.
That's the reason that every closed thread gets closed. It isn't enlightening at all.
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Well, the Forum Rules state that
Forum Rules said:
Off-site downloads from sites requiring registration are NOT encouraged but may be permitted if the following conditions are met:
A) the site belongs to a member of XDA-Developers with at least 1500 posts and 2 years membership who actively maintains XDA-Developers' support thread(s) / posts, related to the download,
B) the site is a relatively small personal website without commercial advertising/links (i.e. not a competitor forum-based site with purposes and aims similar to those of XDA-Developers.com.)
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It appears as though Mammon doesn't have 1500 posts which would make him in violation of the rules and thus the reason for his thread being closed.
I'm sure that all of this was explained to him via PM though.
the real issue here is that people with issues can't post them now. but i gotta agree, while registering wasn't that much of a hassle, try downloading the thing from your phone, you gotta go through 16 prompts and 666 other things, speak to satan, make sure jesus is on your side and then you can finally download it. thats a lot of hassle from a phone browser. or you can download it to your computer. connect your phone, speak to satan, make sure jesus is on your side and maybe the computer will decide it llikes the phone enough to show the drive where you can copy it.
but I can go to ACS, click download and have it on my phone in 2 seconds.
I do agree that forums shouldn't get closed like this without explanation, but we saw the same thing with epic experience and frankly usually the quality gets worse not better once this starts to happen. With Epic experience, the rom went from superstable to so buggy it was unusable and the heads started to get quite swelled.
robl45 said:
the real issue here is that people with issues can't post them now. but i gotta agree, while registering wasn't that much of a hassle, try downloading the thing from your phone, you gotta go through 16 prompts and 666 other things, speak to satan, make sure jesus is on your side and then you can finally download it. thats a lot of hassle from a phone browser.
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You're problem, obviously, clearly is that you are not already pre-qualified with Satan and Jesus, as I am, thereby supernaturally being silently led around 15 of the prompts and 665 of the links. Much like a VIP passing the line at a hot nightclub.
Go and register at http://SatanIsMyBud.com and http://JesusDigsMe.com, and you'll avoid these problems. Don't worry about the apparent conflict -- they're enemies, and don't share databases.
I do agree that forums shouldn't get closed like this without explanation, but we saw the same thing with epic experience and frankly usually the quality gets worse not better once this starts to happen. With Epic experience, the rom went from superstable to so buggy it was unusable and the heads started to get quite swelled.
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I understand. At the same time, this is all free, the "providers" are donating their time and effort to us "consumers", so a certain degree of forebearance seems appropriate, IMO.
This is all very personal and subjective, similar in many ways to one's musical tastes. There's no point in arguing "is not! is too!" over such things -- I really don't mind jumping through some hoops for a few minutes to get something awesome for free. But that's just me, and my personality. Others do, and I bear no criticism or ill-will for their perspective.
The one criticism I do have is for those that slag on the guys. If you were paying for a product/service, sure, you have some standing. However, if you're simply taking advantage of their donated work, you certainly have the option not to, and go somewhere else (like ACS, for example). There seem to me nothing good to be accomplished by anyone being so critical, and appearing like a selfish ingrate.
I'm curious to what happened to the noobnl thread where he I believe he called out mammon on the website stuff or something of that nature I didn't get to see his actual post cuz he edited it and today I can't find it anywhere.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Maybe its just me, but I really didn't need an explanation to figure it out.
Here are the relevant parts exactly how they appear on each of two bonsai threads that were closed:
Current Version Download Links(Please register in-order to download) : mod edit: links removed
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from:http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=976864
and:
Please register in-order to download.
Download: mod edit: link removed
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from:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1001469
Hmm, I wonder why they were closed. Maybe I am just a master of deduction.
muyoso said:
Maybe its just me, but I really didn't need an explanation to figure it out.
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I'm sure it's not just you.
But then, I didn't, and I'm certain there are plenty of others like me too.
What I don't get is the (seeming) arrogance of some in the former camp that lack the basic civility to understand that both outcomes are entirely reasonable, and that intelligent, competent members of the community can arrive at either conclusion.
By "seeming arrogance" I refer to meaningless statements like, "Maybe it's just me", where the intended meaning is culturally well-established, and in my 49 years of life has never -- not once -- been said with any intent other than to denigrate others.
But then, maybe that's just me...
Mammon, Randy, et. al.: I have a suggestion for how to solve this problem.
Post a link to the Wiki, as you've done before, and then put the link to the "offending" site there, instead of a direct download.
I believe that would satisfy the Forum Rules, but of course defer to the moderators. Would any of them -- particularly scotsman -- care to weigh in?
What he needs to do is set it up like midnite rom. How he offers the rom on both sites and keeps the main support at his site and add ons. But that type of stuff irritates me. Just offer all of it here. I hate having to be redirected to another site.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
I was going to try midnight, but I couldn't even find the rom to download. direct downloads really are best, especially from the phone perspective.
jbadboy2007 said:
What he needs to do is set it up like midnite rom. How he offers the rom on both sites and keeps the main support at his site and add ons. But that type of stuff irritates me. Just offer all of it here. I hate having to be redirected to another site.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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I love XDA.
I've been lurking for about a year now in a few different device forums as I contemplated buying a Viewsonic Gtablet, then a Notion Ink, then a Moto Xoom, before finally settling on the Transformer
It seems regardless of platform, there is at least a handful of talented, patient, and damn smart developers making cool things happen, a bunch more tinkerer-by-nature hobbyists trying all the cool stuff the devs put out (and showing their gratitude any way they can), another handful of eager but clueless -- sometimes young, ESL, or whatever -- people asking dumb questions, and finally, the few self-righteous bullies that make every visit to XDA a jarring reminder of how rude people can be.
Moderators (and self-envisioned moderators)...stop being jerks! I understand the importance of keeping threads in their respective categories and of cleaning up duplicate threads and asking people to search before creating another thread, and I appreciate the work you do. But don't say something to someone you wouldn't say to them in person, just because you can't see their face!
Succinctly make your point, shut it down, and move on. Snark is the nails on a chalkboard of personality traits; we'll all benefit and improve ourselves by growing out of it.
A) The search function sucks. It does. The only reason I know where anything is on these forums is because I spent ~20 hours reading every single thread that looked important before I even bought my tablet. I don't think the oft-thrown-in-people's-faces search bar has ever helped me find something I wanted to know. Is that an excuse for people to be too lazy to do some research on their own before making a post filled with questions they could've answered simply by browsing the front page of threads? No. But it is something to consider next time you want to jump down someone's throat for having a specific question about drivers while trying to figure out NVFlash.
B) There are three different deprecated "stock to rom" walkthroughs still stickied! (See the "Eee pad reference thread.") Rooting and rom-ing is an undertaking, and people are willing and want to learn/teach themselves, but don't keep three contradicting textbooks on the shelf and then get pissy when people don't know whether the current "best practice" is this or that. If you want to keep the house clean of annoying re-post questions, maybe someone should take a day and streamline that "Eee pad reference thread" into something useful/usable again. Looks like the f***** tax code!
C) I'm not a developer -- I can't make anything cool, port this, or deodex that. But I can help these clueless, lost people figure out what went wrong in their attempt to gain root. And often, I'd like to answer their questions...but you already locked the thread and told them to pack their bags because they're not smart enough for the wild west of XDA!
Anyway, it'll be easy for you to dismiss (or lock and delete) this, because it isn't really "Transformer General," I've only posted five times, and/or because no one likes to turn a critical eye upon themselves, but I hope you don't.
I'm just a guest here, and not much of a contributing one at that, but just be respectful to people.
Searching before posting is a rule of this site, not a suggestion. I have seen plenty of people do fine searching for things on their own, myself included. Those that complain about the search function either don't know how to use it right or don't actually use it and claim they did. If your job was to remind people of rules they should already know and are blatantly obvious, but choose to ignore, you would be tired of it too; honestly those people deserve more than a slight reminding of the rules (temp ban sounds more appealing). Consider it a favor that a slap on the wrist is all that happens.
If you don't like XDA search function, use google. If you can't use google, rid yourself of the Internet, save yourself the trouble, and save us from you. Welcome to Earth.
Sent from my creaky Thunderbolt
One reason that the search function doesn't work as anticipated (at least for me) is that the default is "search titles only" and if you just blindly type a search term in and hit "go" then you almost always won't get a hit.
I've had to hit "advanced search" and choose "in titles and posts" to get anything.
So that's my comment and now I have a question..lol...
How do I make the default to search titles and posts and not just titles?
I've already tried saving my search preferences; that seems to do nothing.
mb02 said:
Searching before posting is a rule of this site, not a suggestion. I have seen plenty of people do fine searching for things on their own, myself included. Those that complain about the search function either don't know how to use it right or don't actually use it and claim they did. If your job was to remind people of rules they should already know and are blatantly obvious, but choose to ignore, you would be tired of it too; honestly those people deserve more than a slight reminding of the rules (temp ban sounds more appealing). Consider it a favor that a slap on the wrist is all that happens.
If you don't like XDA search function, use google. If you can't use google, rid yourself of the Internet, save yourself the trouble, and save us from you. Welcome to Earth.
Sent from my creaky Thunderbolt
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Wow. Way to prove OP's point. You know you could have just not commented, but the fact that you expended the effort just to be a snarky, sniping jackass not only showcases exactly what OP was talking about, but also tells us everything we need to know about you as a person. Why don't you go **** yourself and the horse you rode in on?
Thanks
KoNP said:
Wow. Way to prove OP's point. You know you could have just not commented, but the fact that you expended the effort just to be a snarky, sniping jackass not only showcases exactly what OP was talking about, but also tells us everything we need to know about you as a person.
Thanks
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And
KoNP said:
Why don't you go **** yourself and the horse you rode in on?
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This has got to be the funniest "pot-calling-the-kettle-black" moment I've seen on the XDA in a long time....
Why do these two sentences not go together?
I've seen funny...and that's funny.
rpavich said:
I've seen funny...and that's funny.
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Thanks, I try.
Also, it's not the pot calling the kettle black to call someone else out on their ****ty behaviour. Additionally, I'm not the one sitting here acting like I'm infallible and taking cheap shots at the OP who made valid points. If mb02 had had something legitimate to say in response to OP, hell something halfway contributory, then he wouldn't have had to respond the way he did. I think he's forgotten that old adage "just because you can, doesn't mean you should" somewhere along the way.
You get to choose which side of the fence to sit on. The side with elitist circlejerkers who practice exclusion like mb02, or the side with people who would rather spend their posting effort helping others and not being a total cockjockey.
Yeah right...you're correcting is WAAAAYYY different than anybody else's....
Read the Policy Announcement to get a feel for why XDA is here.
Also the XDA MANTRA
(begin paraphrase from a former Senior Moderator)
This is not a site to make people popular. I don't care how many people use a specific kernel/ROM/mod/hack/bicycle - act like a fool and demand something from a developer who has put their time and energy and effort - and you deserve to be called out for it. The rules are here for a reason. You either follow them or leave, your choice.
What XDA is:
XDA is a developers site
XDA is a free forum you are ALLOWED to use. We could make it invite only
XDA is and always will be about the developers. And before you say without the users there would be no XDA, Bull****, who do you think used the stuff before normal people even knew what a smartphone was......wait for it.........other developers. People that could give good feedback with relavent info. Not just "dahhh this is broken, please fix".
What XDA is NOT:
XDA is not a place to come and make your phone cool.
XDA is not the cool place for idiots to hang out.
XDA is not your friends house
XDA is not a democracy
XDA is not a place to make Money.
XDA IS a place to come to learn and share your knowledge. If you are not here for those reasons then you are here for the wrong ones.
XDA has become a place where every dumbass in the world has a smartphone and comes here thinking they have the right to anything. Well guess what? You dont have the right to s**t. We share it because we want to and we dont if we dont feel like it. Are the Developers or the Mods required to make you happy? Nope not in the least. Wanna leave. Go ahead. I beg you, please do. The less people that are asking dumb question because they dont know what they are doing (this is understand, but at least look) or are too lazy to look for it the better.
[/end paraphrase]
@OP:You are right most of times, however you can see many people making posts/threads without reading anything. For a MOD/ADMIN who see this again and again and again, I can assume that will be pissed.
More over if some one reads a stickie about flashing and has no idea why/how for his own sake please do not proceed and brick/destroy the equipment.
@OP careful your going to be iron fisted.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium
One thought on the search function. It works fairly well if you take the time to learn it. My only suggestion is to investigate removing or lowering the required wait time between searches. I am wondering of the additional load on the system from more searches would be less than the load caused by creating a new thread after the initial search failed to provide expected results and frustration set in.
Rumbleweed said:
One thought on the search function. It works fairly well if you take the time to learn it.
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When you start typing a search in the box is your default "titles only"?
mb02,
I understand and appreciate the "search first" rule; and I actually agree that a temp-ban for breaking forum rules is appropriate. What is inappropriate is dishing out smug keyboard-lashings. Someone creates a new post asking something that's been covered a million times before? "Sorry, you've been temp-banned for violation of forum rules. Please read these two threads (blahblah) to understand why and help you become a quality contributor. Hope to see you back."
Not, 'Is the search bar missing, or are you just an idiot? Disconnect your router, crawl in a corner, and die.'
Also, who doesn't have a job that involves dealing with frustrating people while remaining civil?
Moderation is important. Enforcing forum rules is important. Stuff like this, "if you can't use google, rid yourself of the Internet, save yourself the trouble, and save us from you. Welcome to Earth." is disrespectful garbage. I'm an adult with an education, job, and family. If you spoke like that to me in person, we would have an issue.
Jerdog,
I actually already read both of those before I joined -- and they did help me better understand XDA's history. I'm not defending the entitled, "this isn't working, fix it," and "when is the next release???," etc. crowd. Far from it. Those people are guilty of the same disrespect I'm so tired of seeing, and I'm glad the moderators stay on top of that. I know I get tired of reading development threads to figure out how the guys are doing on a particular project and wading through a soup of worthless posts (following the "Virtuous Galaxy" rom development in the Iconia forum was a perfect example of this).
I can only imagine how annoying that is for Mike, Gnufabio, Roach, Rothnic, et al. (That said, I also doubt these guys would be as amazingly prolific as they are if they didn't know that thousands of us non-dev muggles love and appreciate their work.)
If XDA is in fact a place to "learn and share knowledge" (and I hope I eventually can absorb enough know-how from these guys to make and share something of my own...even if it's just a simple framework button/battery mod), that abhors "disrespect, rudeness and fun-ruining"...why so much of that from moderators? It seems Iron Fist simply flipped the script on who gets to be rude. (Again, I have no issue with closing/moving threads and forum housekeeping.)
But this kind of stuff: "Wanna leave? Go ahead. I beg you, please do" ?
Why would you be that hostile?
I understand that this is a free, could-be-invite-only forum, I don't have to pay a thing to use it, XDA has more registered users than it wants, and you have every right to tell me to pound sand. But why would you? I've been learning here, and do my best to share my limited knowledge (even it it means PMing someone the thread that would help them solve their issue because the thread is closed and I can't post in it).
Keep the Development sub-forum limited to the dev elite, but if people stick around (in the General and Questions sub-forums) and learn because their first misstep was corrected respectfully (rather than brutally), maybe they'll be developing a popular rom or theme in a year or two!
rpavich said:
When you start typing a search in the box is your default "titles only"?
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I almost always use Advanced search. Much more effective.
Because honestly.......Abuse seems to be the only thing that slows the creaping tide of every n00b who jumps on here with his new device and want s to be spoon fed every detail on rooting and roming and theming and overclocking.....etc.....etc....
Instead of looking for the answer they just keep starting new threads for every little issue they have. This is not a customer service forum.
Agree on the advance search. took me a moment to realize the "titles only" option.
However, if im not on my computer its damn near impossible to search anything on the tablet. Anytime i click the search button, it opens, and quickly closes. Not form friendly..
I dont know.
And not trying to derail the conversation here but i have tried different browsers and classic xda option. So, sometimes in a dev thread with over 200 pages, searching isnt an option.
Not XDAs prob. I know. Just saying
Search can take time and hardly ever gets me to where I need on the first try. Fortunately I am on all day, every day flipping through forums so what really works for me is simply searching for my username+search term. Helps narrow down threads I've been in and looking for.
I do think Mods can be "too hostile" sometimes. A simple "Thread Closed" works or "Moved to Appropriate Forum".
It would be nice if threads could be "CLOSED" by users once a solution is found
DaveRichardson said:
If XDA is in fact a place to "learn and share knowledge" (and I hope I eventually can absorb enough know-how from these guys to make and share something of my own...even if it's just a simple framework button/battery mod), that abhors "disrespect, rudeness and fun-ruining"...why so much of that from moderators? It seems Iron Fist simply flipped the script on who gets to be rude. (Again, I have no issue with closing/moving threads and forum housekeeping.)
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Mod Edit: I am an idiot and I cannot properly structure an argument without resorting to vulgar language.
KoNP said:
Uh, yeah... you didn't realise that was precisely the reason they did it?
Moderators have no real power or achievements outside of the little boxes they push around on here. Iron Fist will slowly kill this place - all that'll be left are a bunch of power-crazy gits and the toolbags who clamour to fellate them.
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Click to collapse
ahhhhhhh.....someone sounds a little butthurt
jerdog said:
Read the Policy Announcement to get a feel for why XDA is here.
Also the XDA MANTRA
(begin paraphrase from a former Senior Moderator)
This is not a site to make people popular. I don't care how many people use a specific kernel/ROM/mod/hack/bicycle - act like a fool and demand something from a developer who has put their time and energy and effort - and you deserve to be called out for it. The rules are here for a reason. You either follow them or leave, your choice.
What XDA is:
XDA is a developers site
XDA is a free forum you are ALLOWED to use. We could make it invite only
XDA is and always will be about the developers. And before you say without the users there would be no XDA, Bull****, who do you think used the stuff before normal people even knew what a smartphone was......wait for it.........other developers. People that could give good feedback with relavent info. Not just "dahhh this is broken, please fix".
What XDA is NOT:
XDA is not a place to come and make your phone cool.
XDA is not the cool place for idiots to hang out.
XDA is not your friends house
XDA is not a democracy
XDA is not a place to make Money.
XDA IS a place to come to learn and share your knowledge. If you are not here for those reasons then you are here for the wrong ones.
XDA has become a place where every dumbass in the world has a smartphone and comes here thinking they have the right to anything. Well guess what? You dont have the right to s**t. We share it because we want to and we dont if we dont feel like it. Are the Developers or the Mods required to make you happy? Nope not in the least. Wanna leave. Go ahead. I beg you, please do. The less people that are asking dumb question because they dont know what they are doing (this is understand, but at least look) or are too lazy to look for it the better.
[/end paraphrase]
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Exactly. Thread closed.
This is a development forum, not an end-user support forum. Although many developers are kind enough to answer questions regarding their releases, this is in no way expected from them. Also, development sections must be kept clean in order to allow our valued developers to do what they do without the intrusion of noobish "entitled" attitudes.
If you have a problem with the way the XDA moderation team handles the forums (either general or more specific), you have two choices: you can either leave or you can message MikeChannon, our forum administrator, to suggest a different modus operandi. This thread is useless and off topic, as it's not even peripherally related to the Transformer.
Hi there.
If you're new to Android, how about you actually figure out the OS before you go ***** in the forums to developers?
People seem to think that XDA is a place to go get updates for their phone, and then complain about how it has problems.
It isn't. Developers don't owe you squat. They put out what they WANT to put out. XDA is a development forum, made by developers for developers. If you don't know what you're doing, don't do it.
Also, people tend to ***** about problems that they caused themselves. For example, I see people complaining in kernel threads about how they undervolted their phone by -75mv in SetCPU and then complain about how they got a freeze or a SoD and proceed to ask the developer to "fix kernal pl0x".
If you mess with system settings, take a second to think that what you're doing *might* be causing problems.
If you DO have a legitimate problem, take a second to think that someone else might have the problem. Search the thread and check if someone else has the same problem. One thing that is somewhat recurring is people saying "herp I'm too lazy to search 5 pages in the thread". If you're too lazy to click your mouse a few times, kindly consider driving off a cliff.
Also, fun fact, did you know that every time you ***** about battery life a baby seal drowns? True story.
Let your battery go through 2 charge cycles, check for wakelocks on your phone with BetterBatteryStats. If all else fails, consider charging your phone overnight. It's not like you live in an Amazonian forest with no power and need your smartphone to last for a month without charging. Go buy an old Nokia if you need your battery to last long.
Here's another thought: try to make your post even remotely readable. Use proper English, it helps us actually understand whatever you're trying to say.
Spare us all headaches and use your common sense.
Here's some more reading material: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=19643797&postcount=5298
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leech_(computing)
Good point well made.
Well said - although I might have said in more gentle terms But there is no doubt whatsoever that any settings, ROM flashing, kernel flashing etc. is at the users own risk and no developer can be held responsible for any damage!
Isn't it possible somehow to make a checklist for new users that are important before they mess around? As they are new we got to help them in order to avoid the "stupid" questions.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Agree with you that XDA is a Developers forum
But on a side note I am sure Devs like that their work is appreciated and in turn I am sure it motivates them to continue working towards better roms and stuff.
I have seen most Devs on XDA take it as creative criticism and always try to get work arounds preety quickly which is think is super brilliant.
You can't stop people *****ing around its each person's nature and I guess we can just ignore them and carry on with the good things that XDA has to offer us.
Besides N00bs will be Noobs - I still am and grateful for XDA Dev's and Members for their Support
Still a Good Point made...
While I agree with most points made, I should also point out the obvious point that without users there's no need for developers. I'm sure the developers would like people to make use of their work.
Also, while searching in theory is nice, sometimes it doesn't work. A problem can be described in many ways. I fully support that users should search before asking, but don't be too hard on people who ask. Some may have searched and failed to find relevant answers.
Totally agree. But with android selling like wild fire the noob intake will increase like crazy. Call it pure laziness to be honest lol.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Logi_Ca1 said:
without users there's no need for developers
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lol.... looks like you really know how this site started..
As i said on a previous thread temporary bannings need to start being issued should people come on and start asking questions which have been answered dozens of times before, i don't know if it's possible in the registration process so newbies can be informed that they need to use the search function first and foremost for any questions where they will most likely find the answer to their questions and only if they cant may then then start a thread where they will most likely get plenty of assistance,when i first joined it was nowhere near as bad as it is now, it's quite painful coming on here sometimes and looking at the same old questions day in,day out.
@OP- Read this before you spread your smart advices to others.
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum
Forum definition: A public meeting place for open discussion.
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I also may add when i first joined or rather a few weeks before i registered i done a bit of reading on XDA to try and familiar myself with some of the topics and jargon used as i didn't really have a clue about anything like this, but back to my original point, use the search function and chances are it will bring up something that your looking for at this stage i cant think of anything that hasn't been covered on here with regard to the SGSII.
ithehappy said:
@OP- Read this before you spread your smart advices to others.
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum
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You see, forums are made to discuss specific things. This particular forum was made to discuss development for Windows Mobile and Android. Therefore, we should keep discussion specific to development. And I'm pretty sure development talk isn't "FIX KERNAL PL0X BATTERY DRAINZZ!".
But then again, what do I know.
Maybe a little aggressive, especially to new members, I understand the point being made, but I like many others have come here to ask for advice and share my finding with other like minded android users, some of the advice I've found most useful has been from other new members with similar issues and questions. Be careful not to frighten new folks off. I've seen threads like this destroy forums in the past. It's all about the wording, and coming across friendly, but allowing folks to understand how the forum works. From what I've read, there are plenty of warning on the rooting and firmware threads, so users have been warned before they try anything vaguely risky. There will always be those who don't heed the advice, but those folks ain't likely to read this thread. Anyhoots peace to all, as this a great place.
so unfriendly. everybody started off as noobs, including developers.
Seifer1975 said:
so unfriendly. everybody started off as noobs, including developers.
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I'm not bashing noobs, I'm telling them to stop being idiots.
I agree with the op.
Each time I have come accross a problem, it has been remedied by returning to the developer's thread to follow the instructions properly, along with taking on board what tips fellow members have said in the assosiated thread.
If I can figure that much out -which isn't rocket science- then I am sure that other should be able to. If only we lived in 'should land'.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
At this point I'm glad that we still have developers here. I couldn't develop my way out of a hostage situation, but am willing to:
Follow the instructions,
Search if I have a problem,
Verify that I did indeed follow the instructions,
Provide a detailed description of problem if I can't rectify,
Present the developer with any info they may need to diagnose (logs, etc...),
Respect the distinction between Q&A and development,
When it doubt watch the video again, you're a noob f-stick and so am I,
Don't piss and moan when I have an issue, I elected to not have a stock phone, nobody held a gun to my head, but if you piss and moan it makes me want to hold a Kalashnikov to yours: search, contribute, learn to troubleshoot.
The Me Generation, need I say more?
I've been sickened keeping up with the siriya thread at the amount of people asking dumb questions too. It doesn't seem to be getting any better.
I work retail and I barely barely have enough free time or energy to keep up with playing with my galaxy s. I have no idea how these developers even do it.
People need to learn some respect for these amazing guys. But I guess the amount of noobs will only ever increase. So I guess the devs will need to adapt.
Anyway, one reason I'm posting this is because it's my 10th post and this allows me to go and post my thanks in the syriya thread!
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
Logi_Ca1 said:
While I agree with most points made, I should also point out the obvious point that without users there's no need for developers. I'm sure the developers would like people to make use of their work.
Also, while searching in theory is nice, sometimes it doesn't work. A problem can be described in many ways. I fully support that users should search before asking, but don't be too hard on people who ask. Some may have searched and failed to find relevant answers.
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Well that's one of the things. Developers don't do it just for people to use it. They do it for learning, testing, and fun. There were custom roms for smartphones when only other developers used it. Did that stop them? Nope we got great things like Cookies Hometab and MaxSense. Everytime I hear "without users their would be no developers" I just have to sit back and say "really what do you think we have been doing on XDA for years before the average user even knew what a smartphone was?"
There is a lot of pointless stuff posted on xda now, often by people who show no respect for the fact that everything here is free of charge. The price of free is that you do a little legwork & read the threads before posting crap like "help i bricked my phone" or "why don't you take the softkeys off the ics gui" which must have been asked 3000 times, when will you release it, which is the best rom? etc.
The admins asked for suggestions last year on how to manage the influx of new members. I didn't suggest anything so I now reap what I sowed. I do have some suggestions now though; let the devs, admins and people with something to download start new threads for free and make the people starting helpdesk or spammy type threads pay, use a keyword or keyphrase blocklist to stop people who can't be bothered to read or who want to ask unreasonable questions from clogging up the threads.
Xda now has adverts so obviously the more the merrier for revenue but if the target is quantity over quality the mods shouldn't complain when they go and clean all the spam out of threads, instead they should just say thanks for your spam please call again soon.
So what is the aim, quality or quantity?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
umadbro?!?!?!