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Vogue - HTC Video Patch Due March 08 !!!???

Just saw this & thought it I would share........It actually gives me some hope!
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/...ster-video-for-affected-devices-no-drivers-i/
It looks like I'll be keeping my Sprint Touch after all if they come through on their end.

I hope that this means those missing drivers were included after all an just not activated... if not, we're not going to see more than a marginal improvement. Could we just pay Qualcomm or something for the drivers individually?

Draiko said:
I hope that this means those missing drivers were included after all an just not activated... if not, we're not going to see more than a marginal improvement. Could we just pay Qualcomm or something for the drivers individually?
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From what Ive read though, HTC is saying that it had nothing to do with missing drivers.

Because it doesn't. There's no reason the phone shouldn't be able to play video correctly *right now* and anyone who's played with the various video modes of tcpmp can tell you that. In any mode other than DirectDraw, it plays perfectly. Forget about "drivers". If they're needed for hardware acceleration, swell, but the real problem is shoddy implementation of the DirectDraw interface. If they fix that, they've fixed the problem. Not that I expect HTC to fix anything, at least without breaking something else. I'm surprised those douchebags can find a door to get out of the house in the morning.

Ya Boi D said:
From what Ive read though, HTC is saying that it had nothing to do with missing drivers.
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I know... which means that either the drivers were included all along or that we're not going to get the boost we're expecting

I'll believe it when I'm using it...

You know, I might actually email qualcomm and ask them if they'd offer those missing drivers to us for a price... Since the entire thing was a money issue and it will take months to write or reverse-engineer a custom driver, why not use the power of money?
Does anyone have an "in" at Qualcomm? *desperation*

Yeah, like other people, we were hoping the drivers would enable the ATI Imageon hardware acceleration in the devices which should theoretically boost performance all around the device, not just certain aspects.
These 'other drivers' that are supposedly getting released look more like a better cache system that for the OS level and no other improvements.
--James

markgamber said:
Because it doesn't. There's no reason the phone shouldn't be able to play video correctly *right now* and anyone who's played with the various video modes of tcpmp can tell you that. In any mode other than DirectDraw, it plays perfectly. Forget about "drivers". If they're needed for hardware acceleration, swell, but the real problem is shoddy implementation of the DirectDraw interface. If they fix that, they've fixed the problem. Not that I expect HTC to fix anything, at least without breaking something else. I'm surprised those douchebags can find a door to get out of the house in the morning.
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I just got my Touch Voque this week.. And running TCPMP I can play xvids no probs.. Whats the best fps to encode the vids too... I've done 15 & 25.. both seem pretty good.. but opting for 15fps to reduce work load as quality is more than accepable.. I'd say stunning

Another good read... Qualcomm's MSM7500 sales pitch!

Draiko said:
Another good read... Qualcomm's MSM7500 sales pitch!
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Good find. Here is the article in it's entirety quoted from the actual page. All credits go to the original author.
Publication: Modem User News
Publication Date: 01-SEP-05
Delivery: Immediate Online Access
Author:
Company: QUALCOMM CDMA Technologies; QUALCOMM Inc.
Full Article:
QUALCOMM Incorporated (NASDAQ:QCOM) has begun sampling the dual-CPU MSM7500 (Convergence Platform single-chip solution, enabling the first generation of converged devices that combine popular consumer electronics with the advanced power of CDMA2000 1xEV-DO Revision A networks. QUALCOMM's MSM7500 chipset will transform the wireless device into the ultimate personal multimedia experience, enabling devices from high-end PDAs and Smartphones to cost-effective wireless computers to portable video players, music centers, gaming consoles and more. With the processing capacity to match the high data-speed capabilities of Rev. A networks, the MSM7500 chipset creates new markets for the world's most popular consumer devices --including an 8.0 megapixel digital camera, camcorder-like video recorder, VGA resolution gaming, support for major audio and video formats, plus a dedicated applications processor to support the BREW solution and third- party operating systems -- with an integrated single-chipset solution.
"The MSM7500 chipset brings the industry's best personal media experience to wireless, enabling faster, widespread adoption of the high data-rate services that operators and consumers want," said Dr. Sanjay K. Jha, president of QUALCOMM CDMA Technologies. "By addressing historical performance issues -- power, display, speed, form-factor, network support and multimedia functionality -- the integrated architecture of the MSM7500 chipset provides OEMs with a solution that does not require separate chips or processors to deliver the next evolution in high-end multimedia."
The MSM7500 chipset boasts a power-efficient design with a dual-CPU architecture that integrates an ARM11 applications processor and an ARM9 modem processor to deliver the processing power required to run on-demand multimedia content over high-speed Rev. A networks. The MSM7500 chipset will:
* Deliver high-end multimedia with the integrated Launchpad suite and BREW support
* Support high-resolution VGA displays and TV-out to turn wireless handsets into personal media players and leverage the viewing experience of television monitors
* Provide a high-end gaming experience with an embedded ATI 3D graphics engine that further improves the user experience with 3D user interfaces
* Expand the Smartphone market with support for Linux and other third-party operating systems
* Provide support for wireless peripherals such as WiFi, Bluetooth, QUALCOMM's FLO solution, as well as popular broadcast standards
The MSM7500 chipset supports QUALCOMM's Launchpad suite of advanced multimedia, connectivity, position location, user interface and removable storage functionality, and QUALCOMM's BREW solution, which enables the download and monetization of advanced applications and content, allowing operators and OEMs to differentiate their products and services and increase revenues. QUALCOMM's chipsets are also compatible with the Java runtime environment (J2ME) which can be built entirely on the chipset as an extension to the BREW client.
QUALCOMM Incorporated develops and delivers digital wireless communications products and services based on the company's CDMA digital technology. Headquartered in San Diego, Calif., QUALCOMM is included in the S&P 500 Index and is a 2005 FORTUNE 500 company traded on The Nasdaq Stock Market under the ticker symbol QCOM.
QUALCOMM Incorporated can be found on the World Wide Web at http://www.qualcomm.com/
For more information, call 858/845-7571.
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Now wouldn't it be nice if our service providers actually provided us with all of those nice features?

the issue is that anything labeled as "supported" isn't something that the OEMs are forced to include. However, the ATi Imageon is an integrated component, it is present in every single MSM7500 and that is what puts both Qualcomm and HTC into hot class-action-lawsuit-flavored water. Computer Lemon Laws protect people from false advertising and most of them state that a device MUST function as advertised/promised at the time of purchase. Every single product spec sheet for an MSM7500 device states that the MSM7500 is inside. The MSM7500's specs include an ATi Imageon and unless specifically stated by HTC, the unit is sold with the assumption that all "EMBEDDED" and advertised features of it's included components are available at purchase. If advertised features are not enabled at the time of purchase, then that is false advertising which means we can sue HTC under most Lemon Laws in place today. If the HTC insider interview at wmexperts.com is true, HTC could possibly sue Qualcomm for trying to charge more for a the MSM7x00 chipset's built-in features.
The only reason why companies provide free updates is to keep from getting sued under state computer lemon laws.

March 10, still nothing.....

h311boy said:
March 10, still nothing.....
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Thanks sherlock.

where did the march 8th date come from anyways?
-mark

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that was meant to be read March 2008 although it does seem like March 8th being that the Mogul update was released on the 10th. Wish somebody could modify it for the Vogue and get the GPS working... Hopefully HTC will release a lot more for the Vogue very soon!

Snapdragon hardware multimedia support, possible?

Hi!
I've been trying to find any documentation on Snapdragon's DSP and hardware based video and audio decoders. So far, nothing. I'm just thinking if it would be possible to cook the support into custom ROM as it is quite ridiculous that decoding something like MP3 or AAC takes any CPU time at all, as according to Qualcomm's web site Snapdragon has hardware support for decoding MP3, AAC and H.264. I take it Qualcomm only provides the documentation to partners, as it is impossible to find?
Hopefully full support for hardware acceleration comes with WM7, if it can not implemented on 6.5. Should be doable with custom driver (in kernel mode) anyway by cooking, provided the documentation is leaked or something.
Mikko.

It's not possible to have the SnapDragon documentation because Qualcomm will never release it.
It's possible instead to have the missing SnapDragon drivers for Linux or I hope for Windows CE only when a QSD based smartbook that will have these drivers will be out.
With Windows Mobile 7 it's a whole new story, new CE7 kernel and support for all the new ARM instructions. I hope that we'll get that things and soon

kholk said:
It's not possible to have the SnapDragon documentation because Qualcomm will never release it.
It's possible instead to have the missing SnapDragon drivers for Linux or I hope for Windows CE only when a QSD based smartbook that will have these drivers will be out.
With Windows Mobile 7 it's a whole new story, new CE7 kernel and support for all the new ARM instructions. I hope that we'll get that things and soon
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That's a waste of potential, but we can only wait (or not? )

you Cant really expect qualcomm to release documents on its IP.
but it would be nice if they and htc worked together to release a dev sdk.
if they are serious about developing the platform then its a step they really do need to make.
if samsung can get a sdk out for the omnia ii then it seems sensible to think htc need to play catchup.. the chipset does have potential,and it appears qualcomm are becoming more dev friendly.
look at what southend have achieved with some decent support from QC..

documentation?
Qualcomm should be giving documentation to ISVs its just a matter of it falling in the wrong(or right) hands. In the meantime, Snapdragon uses ARM Cortex-A9 core and you can find more details here:
http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/ARMCortex-A9_MPCore.html
Not sure if that includes DSP.

My acer s200 has support for H.263, H.264 out the box =]

Ca5c4d3 said:
Qualcomm should be giving documentation to ISVs its just a matter of it falling in the wrong(or right) hands. In the meantime, Snapdragon uses ARM Cortex-A9 core and you can find more details here:
http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/ARMCortex-A9_MPCore.html
Not sure if that includes DSP.
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Snapdragon is Cortex A8 based and yes it does have DSP

mightymn said:
Snapdragon is Cortex A8 based and yes it does have DSP
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Do you know are the hardware multimedia decoders really silicon or SIMD/DSP based? From the QC's documentation you get the feeling they are ASIC stuff, but it might be marketing and in reality they are IP cores.
Mikko.

mikolas said:
Do you know are the hardware multimedia decoders really silicon or SIMD/DSP based? From the QC's documentation you get the feeling they are ASIC stuff, but it might be marketing and in reality they are IP cores.
Mikko.
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Nope, don't know that

(BUILD ATTENDEES) System Dump Please!

5000 of the attendees of the BUILD conference were given Sammy Tablets with Windows 8. This is most likely the only public source of the ARM version of Win 8. Please upload what you can, within legal limits...

That Samsung Tablet wasn't ARM-based I think.

Nope it is not arm
I would love an arm dump to get it on touhpad via making install.wim...

slimshady322 said:
That Samsung Tablet wasn't ARM-based I think.
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It was nVidia based. I'll post the article link in a sec.

Core i5, that was told at conference.

No its not
Its an intel i5 no arm on the Samsung model

daweiteh said:
It was nVidia based. I'll post the article link in a sec.
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Nvidia Tegra 2 and above are ARMv7+ Chips. All Nvidia does it put their name on it. But those are ARMv7 chips. This goes for all the current and future mobile devices. If they are using i5 Intel with the builtin Intel GPU then that's a different story and it's not Nvidia. It's Intel. As far as I know Nvidia's mobile devices are going to be entirely ARM based.
As a matter of fact even Intel uses ARM to a lesser degree with memory managment chips for example. Everyone uses ARM to be specific. There isn't really a chip manufacturer out there that does not deal with ARM Holdings in some form. I'm very interested in putting Windows 8 on ARM so I'm following these threads closely myself. I have yet to see the ARM build and being a dev for MS myself, I have been testing Windows 8, but when I have conference calls with Microsoft and I ask for ARM support, they are telling me the setup is not done yet most likely and the support just isn't ready for developers yet. Stay tuned for sure. It should be a higher build number than 8200 I think.
Sent from Atrix4G Mobile

RedLineJoes said:
Nvidia Tegra 2 and above are ARMv7+ Chips. All Nvidia does it put their name on it. But those are ARMv7 chips. This goes for all the current and future mobile devices. If they are using i5 Intel with the builtin Intel GPU then that's a different story and it's not Nvidia. It's Intel. As far as I know Nvidia's mobile devices are going to be entirely ARM based.
As a matter of fact even Intel uses ARM to a lesser degree with memory managment chips for example. Everyone uses ARM to be specific. There isn't really a chip manufacturer out there that does not deal with ARM Holdings in some form. I'm very interested in putting Windows 8 on ARM so I'm following these threads closely myself. I have yet to see the ARM build and being a dev for MS myself, I have been testing Windows 8, but when I have conference calls with Microsoft and I ask for ARM support, they are telling me the setup is not done yet most likely and the support just isn't ready for developers yet. Stay tuned for sure. It should be a higher build number than 8200 I think.
Sent from Atrix4G Mobile
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Nvidia makes the tegra line of arm socs as well as chipsets for x86 and gpus for pcs. lets try not to get their products confused. Nvidia does a lot more than just "put their name on it" They tape out the chip and add their gpu to it. It's a custom implementation of an arm chip based loosely around the "standard" that arm creates. The series 7 slate that was passed out at build is the same series 7 that is going on sale later this month with an i5 in it, it also uses intel graphics. It's x86 aka not arm. Because there is no standard off the shelf arm system I highly doubt they will release any sort of preview arm build. Most likely it will take many many system dumps and a lot of work to get arm windows 8 working fully on devices that did not ship with it.
---------- Post added at 01:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:54 PM ----------
Remember Texas Instruments and Qualcomm are also throwing their hats into the windows 8 ARM(s) race. Don't count them out. Likely each device will have a version of windows compiled specifically for it ala windows mobile. I just don't see any real way around that. Unless they give the different arm chips special drivers and build them all in - but that would make for less efficiency and a waste of storage and more complexity considering that no one is going to be putting a windows 8 dvd into their tablet to install the arm version ever ever ever. I'm thinking this will all be precompiled specifically for each device and it will likely lack certain features like device manager and complicated driver handling controls. This is going to be a pain in the ass.

It is not confusing because I was only speaking on Nvidia ARM SoCs, not anything else they do. Ye have little faith if you think Microsoft can't bring a mutli kernalized version of Windows 8 to market for all the different platforms similar to what Linux/Android already does.
The big buzz about Windows 8 when we first started talking about it with Microsoft was "kernalized versions with ARM support". That's right from the horses mouth. I sure hope they deliver on that more than anything else. And seeing as how I help make the OS what it is, i'll be testing the functionality eventually. Due to NDA you aren't allowed to say much about it though until these types of releases become available to the general public and developers. Then we can discuss what works and what doesn't with the people who plan to actually use it and make applications for it.
Sent from Atrix4G Mobile

Windows 8 on x86 android devices?

Before anyone says anything, no, this is not another topic asking the stupid, worn out question "can I haz w8 on my kindle fire/nook/transformer prime/galaxySII/ect"
At CES there are several android devices being shown off with x86 processors: Intel atom CPUs. Would it be possible, provided internal storage is big enough, to be able to run the full version of windows 8 on these pieces of hardware? I can't think of any reasons why not, and being able to run full versions of x86 windows off of a cell phone is just amazing. IMHO it'd be worth the price of a seat of windows 8, and dual booting with android ICS sounds incredible. So, is there anything I'm missing? Or would the hardware support it fairly easily? I can't think of any roadblocks, other than the annoyance of installing off of microSD.

I think this must be a new kind of Atom-CPUs that are built for the ARM-architecture on which Android runs? I red somewhere that they wanted to release that Kind of CPUs this year.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

No, they're definitely x86 chips.

If it has BIOS/EFI it will be done

mtmerrick said:
Before anyone says anything, no, this is not another topic asking the stupid, worn out question "can I haz w8 on my kindle fire/nook/transformer prime/galaxySII/ect"
At CES there are several android devices being shown off with x86 processors: Intel atom CPUs. Would it be possible, provided internal storage is big enough, to be able to run the full version of windows 8 on these pieces of hardware? I can't think of any reasons why not, and being able to run full versions of x86 windows off of a cell phone is just amazing. IMHO it'd be worth the price of a seat of windows 8, and dual booting with android ICS sounds incredible. So, is there anything I'm missing? Or would the hardware support it fairly easily? I can't think of any roadblocks, other than the annoyance of installing off of microSD.
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Why bother about it being on x86, windows 8 will run on ARM architecture too if I'm not mistaken

Because putting W8ARM on existing devices is probably impossible and quite likely to be illegal.

Not sure why it would be illegal. If you own a license of the OS, you should be able to run it on whatever you want - unless, like the Apple stuff there's some kind of EULA that states that you specifically can't. I seriously doubt MS would bother to screw with people who tried anyway.
The Developer Preview of W8 is x86/x64 only anyway. Hopefully the beta coming in February will Feb will have arm support. I'm hoping to get it working on a Galaxy Tab 10.1 but who knows?
One potential caveat. I've heard that the ARM version will only work with Metro apps. If that's the case, it will be far less useful. Forget running all that excellent software you already have and know an love.
Greg

Microsoft (and the hardware manufacturers of current Android devices) don't want this to happen on ARM devices, because having an open bootloader and a myriad of Linux distributions would hurt their ecosystems. All ARM W8 tablets will come with locked bootloaders by specification, just like Android ones. Existing Android devices and others like the TouchPad will be very difficult to port this to because the bootloader security is different from current devices. But who wants ARM Windows 8 as the old apps and desktop don't work on it?
Regarding x86: If it's possible on the HTC Shift, it will sure be possible on Medfield (next-gen Atom for phones) devices, especially if the bootloader is open. If it's closed the scene will figure out how to unlock it and install Windows 7/W8/Ubuntu/etc. on it just like on a regular PC, which would mean having access to all legacy apps. Of course dual boot would also be possible.

geebake said:
Not sure why it would be illegal. If you own a license of the OS, you should be able to run it on whatever you want - unless, like the Apple stuff there's some kind of EULA that states that you specifically can't. I seriously doubt MS would bother to screw with people who tried anyway.
The Developer Preview of W8 is x86/x64 only anyway. Hopefully the beta coming in February will Feb will have arm support. I'm hoping to get it working on a Galaxy Tab 10.1 but who knows?
One potential caveat. I've heard that the ARM version will only work with Metro apps. If that's the case, it will be far less useful. Forget running all that excellent software you already have and know an love.
Greg
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Since only OEMs will be able to buy W8 ARM liscences, and liscences are not device transferable, you will not be allowed to port it to a non-liscenced device, just like Windows Mobile or WP7.
And no, W8ARM will not be able to run x86 programs.

I think there's an excellent chance that private users will be able to get a copy of W8 for arm.
And whether or not x86 code will run in the arm version is definitely not settled.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/07/desktop-apps-may-run-on-win8-for-arm-after-all-maybe/

I read that article and laughed. Never once did they mention ARM - they were reffering to the 'classic desktop' UI, and they can't decide if W8ARM will be metro only, or have the (for ARM) near useless classic desktop.
Give up all hope that W8ARM will have an emulator built in. Its not going to happen, performance will be so terrible it would alienate customers. W8ARM will not be available to consumers for the same reason WP7 isn't - Microsoft would loose too much control and non-techie customers would be too confused.

Not sure but does this mean windows 8 on a Cisco Cius is possible cause it has an Intel atom processor?
Sent via Samsung Skyrocket with Sky ICS

if it has an atom processor, it should be. as with anything cross-platform, drivers would be an issue, but that shouldn't be too hard to overcome.

That's pretty awesome
Sent via Samsung Skyrocket with Sky ICS

yes right, i am agree with u

I personally hope intel medfield kills off any arm competitors in the windows 8 tablet business. I am not happy with how closed arm can be compared to x86.

The arm architecture is more open than x86. But indeed you can do more on x86 based hardware as there is more software available for it.

moved to general

As long as your x86 Android netbook can boot from USB storage and isn't locked into the OSes that it came with, I guess it could be possible as long as the amount of RAM and internal storage meet the minimum requirements.
Sent from my LS670 using XDA

x86 instruction sets are one thing but drivers are a whole different ball game.
But in theory yes, Win 8 x86 could run on x86 android hardware, with several very large assumptions being made
as for ARM, I think we can forget x86 emulation, the overheads would cripple it. To be honest, I personally wouldn't have a use for an ARM tablet, an x86 tablet however would be very useful, so come on Intel, get your finger out and give us some affordable ultra low watt x86 SoCs, keep it cheap an OEMS will trip over them selves buying them, after all, backward compatibility means les overheads for companies and less hassle for users.

An opensource Mali-400 driver is being developed

A reverse engineered, open-source, Mali-400 driver.
Pretty cool, but don't expect to see it running on the Note soon.
It would be nice to see more opensource drivers!
Imagine if a new Android build's source comes out and a developer already has access to drivers for i.e the camera.
I don't understand why ARM or any other company doesn't make their drivers opensource in the first place.
Popular hardware will get reverse engineered opensource drivers eventually.
Nvidia's optimus for example. It just takes a lot of time.
But a driver is software and software has to be closed source for some reason
Here's a link for some more information if you're interested.
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=arm_mali_reverse&num=1

So the waiting begins. Bump this thread next year when they're done

DaanJordaan said:
A reverse engineered, open-source, Mali-400 driver.
Pretty cool, but don't expect to see it running on the Note soon.
It would be nice to see more opensource drivers!
Imagine if a new Android build's source comes out and a developer already has access to drivers for i.e the camera.
I don't understand why ARM or any other company doesn't make their drivers opensource in the first place.
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I think its just one of those bloody minded ideas in business. "We don't do it that way because thats not the way we do things." Kind of circular logic stupidity.
If you are selling a product then surely its in your interest for your product to be more useful and become more popular!
Imagine buying a sports car which required you to use a driver with it as you were never allowed to know how to drive it yourself ;-)

PurpleMelbourne said:
Imagine buying a sports car which required you to use a driver with it as you were never allowed to know how to drive it yourself ;-)
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Very nice comparison!