Full charged battery stick at 96%!!!

Full charged battery stick at 96%!!! - Nexus S General

Hey,
I'm one of the proud nexus s users since a few days. I do have a question. I've got a stock nexus s with 2.3.3 unrooted. When I charge my battery, the phone won't charge more then 96%. I have treid to reboot and charge again, but no succes. Someone has te same or knows a sollution???
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

As mentioned many times before in this forum, batteries are not meant to be fully charged at all. This is to extend the lifespan of the battery. High voltage (100%) stresses out the battery, so by letting the charge stop at 96% for example, it makes it as full as possible without bringing its voltage to the max. So your battery can last longer and will not need a replacement so fast. Hope this helps.

It's not a problem, its a feature. Ironically, it keeps your battery life longer in the short run and long run.

soylukral said:
Hey,
I'm one of the proud nexus s users since a few days. I do have a question. I've got a stock nexus s with 2.3.3 unrooted. When I charge my battery, the phone won't charge more then 96%. I have treid to reboot and charge again, but no succes. Someone has te same or knows a sollution???
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk
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if you REALLY want your battery to reach 100% this is what you do. let the phone charge until it stops charging, unplug it from the charger, plug it back in, then continue charging it with the screen on. do not let the screen go off or it will stop charging. this method work, it just takes a lonooong time to reach 100%
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That method is called Bump charge. It's useful to bringing your battery to 100%
But do not do it often because it reduces your battery's lifespan.

I will give it a try. Thanks anyway.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

navlem said:
As mentioned many times before in this forum, batteries are not meant to be fully charged at all. This is to extend the lifespan of the battery. High voltage (100%) stresses out the battery, so by letting the charge stop at 96% for example, it makes it as full as possible without bringing its voltage to the max. So your battery can last longer and will not need a replacement so fast. Hope this helps.
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Click to collapse
Umm your explanation is why people would see the phone as fully charged at 100% then unplug to find it at a lower percentage. That was because the battery had been fully charged but then stopped charging and had not hit it's bump level. Now however the issue is that some phones seem to just stop charging. Not sure where you got the idea that its bad for them to be fully charged but just think about that statement for a second.
Its bad for them to be OVER CHARGED. Fully charged (4191mV) is great but charging past that point may lead to battery over heating and catching fire as was demonstrated with the trickle charge kernels over on the evo 4g forums. This issue, the one being discussed in the thread is NOT just something people should accept. This is a bug that should be reported to Google.
Sent from my MIUI Nexus S from the XDA Premium app.

kenvan19 said:
Umm your explanation is why people would see the phone as fully charged at 100% then unplug to find it at a lower percentage. That was because the battery had been fully charged but then stopped charging and had not hit it's bump level. Now however the issue is that some phones seem to just stop charging. Not sure where you got the idea that its bad for them to be fully charged but just think about that statement for a second.
Its bad for them to be OVER CHARGED. Fully charged (4191mV) is great but charging past that point may lead to battery over heating and catching fire as was demonstrated with the trickle charge kernels over on the evo 4g forums. This issue, the one being discussed in the thread is NOT just something people should accept. This is a bug that should be reported to Google.
Sent from my MIUI Nexus S from the XDA Premium app.
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I read it through this page
http://www.androidpolice.com/2010/1...bump-charging-and-inconsistent-battery-drain/
Though it might mention about the problem about "Showing 100% and instant drop after unplug from charger", but I reckon that Google is making Nexus S showing the true accurate charge.

navlem said:
I read it through this page
http://www.androidpolice.com/2010/1...bump-charging-and-inconsistent-battery-drain/
Though it might mention about the problem about "Showing 100% and instant drop after unplug from charger", but I reckon that Google is making Nexus S showing the true accurate charge.
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Click to collapse
You reckon incorrectly.
This is why many new phones will “lose” up to 10% within a few minutes of coming off the charger. The reality is that the battery was only at 100% capacity for a brief moment, after which the battery management system allowed it to slowly dip down to around 90%. Leaving the phone plugged in overnight does not make a difference: the phone only uses the wall current to maintain a partial charge state.
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I have battery graphs which show the phone is never reaching 100%, or was never reaching 100% (ironically, my phone actually was at 100% for the first time since 2.3.3 this morning). As I said, this is a bug not a feature. Phones should hit 100% then drop to a "bump level" (HTC seems to like 90% whereas I believe Samsung uses 95%) and then charge back up to 100%, as simms said, very slowly. It does this so as to not over-charge the battery because that can lead to severe over-heating issues and can possibly hinder the overall life of the battery. RogerPodacter was able to modify the battery drivers for the N1 so as to prevent this from happening (not quite sure what he modified) but because of the way that Samsung set up the NS battery drivers, this is not possible for us. Again, this is a BUG that should be reported to Google.

Yeah, i might reckon incorrectly. Doing the bump charge now, it seemed to be really slow at charging from 98% onwards though.

I had this issue with galaxy s also with newer firmwares. It is NOT a bug, it's a FEATURE.

JuWa said:
I had this issue with galaxy s also with newer firmwares. It is NOT a bug, it's a FEATURE.
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LOL The battery not being able to achieve full charge is definitely a feature, ya sure. Absolutely. I can only use 95% of my cars petrol. That's a feature too. Definitely. My paycheck is only ever 95% of what I earned. Its a feature! People think about what you're saying >< a phone not being able to reach its maximum charge is a BUG.

kenvan19 said:
LOL The battery not being able to achieve full charge is definitely a feature, ya sure. Absolutely. I can only use 95% of my cars petrol. That's a feature too. Definitely. My paycheck is only ever 95% of what I earned. Its a feature! People think about what you're saying >< a phone not being able to reach its maximum charge is a BUG.
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Click to collapse
Ehm... Are you stupid or something? What is those things got to dot with the battery CHARGING???

The only real solution is to get a spare OEM battery or two and a wall charger to charge them in. The batteries last 2 to 4 more hours because when I plug one in its fully charged to 100%. Plus I rarely ever have to hook my phone up to a charger anymore. Swapping batteries is so much more convenient.
And I agree this 'feature' to save my $7 battery is not a feature at all. You can find extra batteries and chargers on ebay very easily.

I agree with the above post 100%. Since I got a second (genuine) battery and an external charger, both of my batteries charge to 100% and appear to last longer. Since I started charging them in the external charger, they also now charge to 100% in the phone too. As I said in the other thread similar to this, I'm presuming the battery needed a full cycle and the charging circuitry in the phone just wasn't up to the job.

JuWa said:
Ehm... Are you stupid or something? What is those things got to dot with the battery CHARGING???
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Wow. Just wow. You don't even vaguely understand irony do you mate?

Oh, Americans... I just love you guys...

Living in America makes me American, does it?

kenvan19 said:
You reckon incorrectly.
I have battery graphs which show the phone is never reaching 100%, or was never reaching 100% (ironically, my phone actually was at 100% for the first time since 2.3.3 this morning). As I said, this is a bug not a feature. Phones should hit 100% then drop to a "bump level" (HTC seems to like 90% whereas I believe Samsung uses 95%) and then charge back up to 100%, as simms said, very slowly. It does this so as to not over-charge the battery because that can lead to severe over-heating issues and can possibly hinder the overall life of the battery. RogerPodacter was able to modify the battery drivers for the N1 so as to prevent this from happening (not quite sure what he modified) but because of the way that Samsung set up the NS battery drivers, this is not possible for us. Again, this is a BUG that should be reported to Google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've looked to make the same driver changes to the nexus s as I did to the nexus one, but the battery chip model and driver is different so the same changes don't make sense.
I've gone on record saying that this issue with the nexus s not charging to 100% is NOT intentional, its a bug inherent with type of driver used in the nexus s. I just don't own this phone to edit the driver and test.
But there is a line of code which I feel if it was removed, this issue may disappear. I know not everyone agrees. But my nexus one will stay at 100% for an hour and a half, every morning. And my nexus reaches 100% every single day, I've never seen otherwise. So its not the way batteries are supposed to work. If it was, they would just make the top end lower and the 96% mark would be the 100% mark. Just my opinion.

RogerPodacter said:
I've looked to make the same driver changes to the nexus s as I did to the nexus one, but the battery chip model and driver is different so the same changes don't make sense.
I've gone on record saying that this issue with the nexus s not charging to 100% is NOT intentional, its a bug inherent with type of driver used in the nexus s. I just don't own this phone to edit the driver and test.
But there is a line of code which I feel if it was removed, this issue may disappear. I know not everyone agrees. But my nexus one will stay at 100% for an hour and a half, every morning. And my nexus reaches 100% every single day, I've never seen otherwise. So its not the way batteries are supposed to work. If it was, they would just make the top end lower and the 96% mark would be the 100% mark. Just my opinion.
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my nexus one always reaches 100%, using wildmonks kernels, ravens kernels, and now redstar kernel. if you would like me to try something on my nexus s, edit/delete files. ill gladly help out

Related

Some battery thoughts and testings..

Ok, so my battery can go from 100% full charge (overnight) to like 96% within first couple of minutes. I've done the plug/pull trick and it seems to help for a very short while and it will go back to same issue again and again.
Recently, I just bought the $10 2 batteries with external charger pack and had the extra el cheapo battery all charged up using the external charger. To my surprise, I found that the battery charged with external charger drain very accurately.
I've done some testing for a couple of days now by basically draining out the battery and replace it with a fresh one from the external charger without using the wall adapter.
So my thinking is when charging with wall charger, I think the phone does not evenly charges the battery cells because there are so many moving parts while the phone is on and charging. Therefore, it causes the cell to be charged unevenly that leads to quick battery drain.
With the external charged battery, I went from 100% to 90% in 6 hours time with light usage and GPS on.
Give it a try to see if you get different experience with your battery.

I have been doing the same these past couple of weeks (ever since I rooted my 2.2).
My external charger will be here today (it's now saturday morning cst) and I ordered it yesterday. Gotta love amazon one day shipping.
So far I have observed some very interesting charging habits the evo displays when charging with it's included wall charger and stock and extended batteries.

i went 3 days 12 hours and 46 minutes on a single charge, that is with using the stock battery and a regular wall charger, yes i'm rooted and i used setcpu to set my frequency to 614 when screen on, and 245 when screen off, at night when i go to sleep i put the phone into airplane mode, and overall usage was cut back to light to moderate usage, i was trying to see how long i could actually go on the stock battery, and i must admit i'm very impressed.
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I think the general concensus was that the phone doesn't trickle charge. It will hit full then stop charging to a point then will charge again, all while saying 100%
I charged to full then while plugged in it range gps and iheartradio for 20 minutes, unplugged and it dropped to 92 within 5 minutes

Same here. I'll unplug it, browse the web while eating breakfast (about 10/15 minutes) and today I dropped to 89%. But its been two hours since then with some light texting and more browsing im now at 80%.

pinoyxpryde said:
I think the general concensus was that the phone doesn't trickle charge. It will hit full then stop charging to a point then will charge again, all while saying 100%
I charged to full then while plugged in it range gps and iheartradio for 20 minutes, unplugged and it dropped to 92 within 5 minutes
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granted be the trickle charge is with using the stock usb connecter style wall charger right, i never use that thing unless im connected to the pc, i have a actual regular wall charger that came on another phone i used to have before my Evo, lol.

Update: Yep this morning I replaced my battery that was charged by the external charger that I bought with the bundle and same result. On average, my battery drains at the rate of 1.5% per every hour on light usage with GPS on.
I think from now on, I won't charge the phone using the default charger overnight.

vboyz103 said:
Update: Yep this morning I replaced my battery that was charged by the external charger that I bought with the bundle and same result. On average, my battery drains at the rate of 1.5% per every hour on light usage with GPS on.
I think from now on, I won't charge the phone using the default charger overnight.
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So you take your battery out at night and charge it with an external charger?

Leaving the battery charging all night is bad for the batteries lifespan, that is why htc and many laptop companies implement this feature.
Stop complaining about it. Its only one cell and it has nothing to do with evenly charging, its regulated by the onboard charging system.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

lehalter said:
So you take your battery out at night and charge it with an external charger?
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No I have 2 batteries, and I used one of them throughout the day including leaving it overnight uncharged, then in morning I swap it out with the one that was fully charged from external charger.

mastermarc said:
Leaving the battery charging all night is bad for the batteries lifespan, that is why htc and many laptop companies implement this feature.
Stop complaining about it. Its only one cell and it has nothing to do with evenly charging, its regulated by the onboard charging system.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
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LOL, I found this statement is bogus because if you don't leave it charged up overnight then what do you do to recharge it? Come on man! Batteries are meant to be charged up over a period of time.
I'm not saying my understanding of uneven charge distribution is rock solid, but at least I backed it up with some of my own studies.

I just always do my overnight charge with the phone OFF.
Sometimes in the morning I'll also do the unplug, re-plug, wait for green trick.
As long as I don't use 4G, my battery life is GREAT.
My 4g consumption is probably worse because I've tweaked the settings to retry more often - default was 5 minutes between retries.
I guess for people that get calls late at night or don't have a home land-line, turning it off at night is not feasable. But it does get around that immediate drop problem.

They charge at a near constant rate until they are full, after that it is BAD to continue topping them off, please do some research on lithium charging techniques as your "testing" clearly hasn't taught you much if anything about the chemistry.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

mastermarc said:
They charge at a near constant rate until they are full, after that it is BAD to continue topping them off, please do some research on lithium charging techniques as your "testing" clearly hasn't taught you much if anything about the chemistry.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
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Lol you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. The phone doesn't charge at a constant rate until it's full. It would be disastrous for LiCo chemistry if it maintained 0.66C up until it hit 100%. The cell would cook itself to death.
The correct charging profile for the Evo is that it charges constant rate till it hits like 70%, then it slows down until it finally hits 100% and then the charging cuts off. Download JuicePlotter and completely discharge and charge your phone to see this.
Hypothesis below:
The problem with the Evo is that once it hits that cut-off point, the phone never again seems to check if the battery is actually full. (LiCo chemistry has a slight tendency to settle a few hundredths of a volt after charging, and a few hundreths means a couple of %age points when you're in the 4.1V+ range) whereas most cheap chargers will actually keep checking the voltage and trickle charging if necessary.

Too much hassle to keep changing batteries in the Evo, would have to take my case off then the back cover is kinda a ***** and feels like its going to break a tab off or something. The immediate drop doesn't bother me too much. I just use my car charger and it tops me off usually.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

Yes, you are right about switching at 70%. Didn't want to complicate things since we got some novices here clearly.
The hypothesis, not so much...as I said before its intentional and it does what it does to preserve the lifespan of the battery. If you paid $10 for a chinese battery, who cares about lifespan, just use an external charger.
Charge it when its off and it gets and stays at 100. Direct evidence that what they did was a feature and not a mistake.
Sent from an evo

I been using the 700 mah charger and I've haven't noticed any difference in performance. Also again I lost 9% carge in the 10 minutes I was surfing while eating breakfast. Oh well. Im not leaving my computer on all night sucking 400 watts or more to charge a 5 watt phone lol. Ill deal with the 10% drain.

Those are the critters under your bed, they use your phone while u r asleep.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

mastermarc said:
The hypothesis, not so much...as I said before its intentional and it does what it does to preserve the lifespan of the battery. If you paid $10 for a chinese battery, who cares about lifespan, just use an external charger.
Charge it when its off and it gets and stays at 100. Direct evidence that what they did was a feature and not a mistake.
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Click to collapse
I build and design Lithium battery based systems for a living. There's absolutely no reason not to top off the battery. The recommended way to charge any Lithium cell is to constant-current charge and then constant-voltage charge up to 4.2V. Once you get to 4.2V, there's nothing wrong with charging it back up if it settles a little. In fact, most chargers don't even "terminate", they just hold 4.2V.
As for your assertion that it is not a bug, did you consider that perhaps the kernel designers are not realizing that there is some kind of parasitic drain on the battery once the kernel thinks it is full?

AzN1337c0d3r said:
I build and design Lithium battery based systems for a living. There's absolutely no reason not to top off the battery. The recommended way to charge any Lithium cell is to constant-current charge and then constant-voltage charge up to 4.2V. Once you get to 4.2V, there's nothing wrong with charging it back up if it settles a little. In fact, most chargers don't even "terminate", they just hold 4.2V.
As for your assertion that it is not a bug, did you consider that perhaps the kernel designers are not realizing that there is some kind of parasitic drain on the battery once the kernel thinks it is full?
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Just out of curiosity what kinda systems do you build? I have a lithium powered moped (lifepo4 48v 40ah) but i wouldn't say i particularly designed or built (just assembled) the battery system, would be good to have some connections with some real battery specialists for later projects.
In any case, the parasitic drain is an interesting idea but its odd that I can go to sleep, and in the morning my unplugged evo hasn't changed even 1% battery life, whereas it drains from 100% to some odd 90+ number happens when its plugged in. So the parasitic drain would have to only happen when its plugged in for whatever reason.
Some interesting stuff from the wiki.
Charging procedure
Stage 1: Apply charging current limit until the voltage limit per cell is reached.[42]
Stage 2: Apply maximum voltage per cell limit until the current declines below 3% of rated charge current.[42][unreliable source?]
Stage 3: Periodically apply a top-off charge about once per 500 hours.[42][unreliable source?]
The charge time is about three to five hours, depending on the charger used. Generally, cell phone batteries can be charged at 1C and laptop-types at 0.8C, where C is the current that would discharge the battery in one hour. Charging is usually stopped when the current goes below 0.03C but it can be left indefinitely depending on desired charging time. Some fast chargers skip stage 2 and claim the battery is ready at 70% charge.[42][unreliable source?] Laptop battery chargers sometimes gamble, and try to charge up to 4.35 V then disconnects the battery. This helps to compensate for the battery's internal resistance and charges up to 100% in short time.
Top-off charging is recommended when voltage goes below 4.05 V/cell.[42][unreliable source?]
Lithium-ion[which?] cells are charged with 4.2 ± 0.05 V/cell, except for military long-life cells where 3.92 V is used for extending battery life. Most protection circuits cut off if either 4.3 V or 90 °C is reached. If the voltage drops below 2.50 V per cell, the battery protection circuit may also render it unchargeable with regular charging equipment. Most battery protection circuits stop at 2.7–3.0 V per cell.[42][unreliable source?]
For safety reasons it is recommended the battery be kept at the manufacturer's stated voltage and current ratings during both charge and discharge cycles.
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I'd have to check, but i am nearly certain this is exactly the kind of threshold charging system that you can use with lenovo's battery maximiser. As the wiki sorta explains, topping it off is fine...If you do it very infrequently (500hrs). Continuous charging from all i've ever learned on any chemistry just continues to corrode the plates until they become worse and worse at holding a charge.
No product manual anywhere will ever tell you to leave your charger plugged in for extended periods of time (save for 8hr battery conditioning on ni-cd, also of which it tells you not to do frequently). Storage instructions for lithium example say to leave the battery at about 70% charge. Extrapolating from that we can see that the lesser of the ideals is being completely empty, or too full.
Just my thoughts, much like everyone else i don't have any actual evidence that this was HTC's intention, just seems weird that they would screw something up that's been pretty much the same on the last 20 phones they made. My guess is they didn't.
Edit: oh, and the reason i bolded the military voltage is because that's another (very similar) idea as to what HTC might have done, which is lower the "full charge" threshold for as i suggested before....longer lifespan. But whether the phone ever actually gets to 100% is kinda irrelevant. My point is that its PROBABLY done intentionally to preserve the lifespan of the battery.

the best battery life and longevity

since owning my evo i have noticed rather peculiar battery life.
one day its ok, the next its gone 5-6 hours.
so i picked up a 3000mah battery for the wife and myself.
same thing. just horrible battey life one day, then the next.. great. i can go all day and charge when i go to bed.
yes i know the 3000mah battery is probably more like 2200-2500mah.
as i think back, and because of my job and some of the solar and battery backup systems we design for microwave radios i started to notice why, aside from heavy usage, i get poor battery life. and why under mid to heavy use i get even worse life.... i am talking 6 hours and i have just about drained a 3000mah battery.
its the HTC charger.....
no it isnt bad.. its charging the battery too quickly.
anyone who knows anything about batteries knows you can absolutely charge a battery too fast and that 9 out of 10 times a slow or trickle charge gives a much better charge on the battery thus giving prolonged use out of your phone.
not all batteries ar the same. some can handle a quick charge, others demand a slow charge.
so..i look back and i can say with total confidence that when i charge with the HTC wall charge my battery life is 1/2 or less what i get if i charge with the usb cable on a pc or with a wall charger that puts out less amps.
i also shut the phone off whenever i can to charge.
the htc charger puts out 5v 1a.
a usb port puts out 5v 500ma, (0.5a) and you can find wall adapters or car chargers that put out the same.
thus the usb port allows for a better cleaner charge.
prolonged use of the htc charger, i truly believe, will greatly shorten the life of your battery. and not just a little either.
so in the end...
1) usb a pc/laptop usb port to charge your phone whenever possible
2) only use the htc charge if you need a quick boost charge.
3) power off your phone if possible when ever using either method.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

This is from a post i made earlier this morning.
i went 3 days 12 hours and 46 minutes on a single charge, that is with using the stock battery and a regular wall charger, yes i'm rooted and i used setcpu to set my frequency to 614 when screen on, and 245 when screen off, at night when i go to sleep i put the phone into airplane mode, and overall usage was cut back to light to moderate usage, i was trying to see how long i could actually go on the stock battery, and i must admit i'm very impressed.
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when i charge this way i leave the phone on, instead of turning it off.

I hadn't given this as much thought as you guys but in retrospect I have to say I've had the same experience. I just never thought the usb charge would be superior to 1a charging, I just thought it was other factors like my usage or signal strength.
Thanks for this thread

Just use Baked Snack if you want battery life, or juice defender/ultimate juice.

tomh1979 said:
This is from a post i made earlier this morning.
when i charge this way i leave the phone on, instead of turning it off.
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LOL, screen shots like that make me laugh.
I mean, its great and all that you are getting that, but dude...its a phone...use it!
Dont use it as a paperweight.

champ052005 said:
LOL, screen shots like that make me laugh.
I mean, its great and all that you are getting that, but dude...its a phone...use it!
Dont use it as a paperweight.
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the point of it was to see how long it would go period (as in testing), so it was used, just not as much as i normally actually do, read that post again, i think i even said that didn't i not!
Next time please take some time to read the post and think through what it says before posting!

I have had similar issues. For example today my battery has dropped thirty percent in the last hour. I think it's because of poor signal though, atleast for me. I have had my battery die in three hours before because of no signal.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Signal strength does affect battery life, I have a 700 mah charger from my curve I'll start using that to see I notice any difference in drain. Ill report back in a few days if I remember to.

My time without signal is at around 25% today. My phone has been unplugged for 3.5 hours and is at 28%.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

tomh1979 said:
This is from a post i made earlier this morning.
when i charge this way i leave the phone on, instead of turning it off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you point me towards the round clock mod please

tomh1979 said:
This is from a post i made earlier this morning.
when i charge this way i leave the phone on, instead of turning it off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you point me towards the round battery mod please

DirtyShroomz said:
Can you point me towards the round battery mod please
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Click to collapse
mine was apart of the Riptide clear theme, so it came with that, however though i have seen a thread in the app and theme section with this, you might want to search in there, i know it's in the first few pages since that is a popular mod.

I just got my wall charger in the mail and am dying to use it. I've read somewhere with the batteries that the EVO uses we shouldn't drain the battery all the way, is this true? If so, that means I can just pop the battery in the charger, yeah? It'd be a pain to have to drain my battery... Thanks for clarification anyone.

CollegeFresh said:
Just use Baked Snack if you want battery life, or juice defender/ultimate juice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this isnt about roms and apps that claim to help battery life. and just to say it, i have yet to have a rom help my battery life.
in fact... my experience is that i get the best battery life on the stock odex roms. not sure why, but i have seen it many times.
i am talking the proper way to charge your phone, and using the wall charger should only be done when you need to give the phone a very quick charge.
i charged mine the other night when it was down to 2% and it took less than an hour and a half to charge the battery, where as using the usb method, would have taken easily twice as long, and provided twice the use.
I will also say that i have owned alot of phones, and this is THE worst battery life i have ever gotten from a phone... period.
HTC isnt known for using long lasting batteries, nor creating phones that are easy on a battery. HTC makes phones with batteries that blow their wad like a teenager getting his first BJ.

v_lestat said:
this isnt about roms and apps that claim to help battery life. and just to say it, i have yet to have a rom help my battery life.
in fact... my experience is that i get the best battery life on the stock odex roms. not sure why, but i have seen it many times.
i am talking the proper way to charge your phone, and using the wall charger should only be done when you need to give the phone a very quick charge.
i charged mine the other night when it was down to 2% and it took less than an hour and a half to charge the battery, where as using the usb method, would have taken easily twice as long, and provided twice the use.
I will also say that i have owned alot of phones, and this is THE worst battery life i have ever gotten from a phone... period.
HTC isnt known for using long lasting batteries, nor creating phones that are easy on a battery. HTC makes phones with batteries that blow their wad like a teenager getting his first BJ.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do know that the Evo can not properly charge an extended battery right? The built in power driver only charges the stock battery correctly. You can check out either of the extended battery threads in the accessories forum for more info. Though charging via usb may give you a better charge, you are still getting cheated out of battery if you charge the battery in the phone.

Systemfraud said:
I just got my wall charger in the mail and am dying to use it. I've read somewhere with the batteries that the EVO uses we shouldn't drain the battery all the way, is this true? If so, that means I can just pop the battery in the charger, yeah? It'd be a pain to have to drain my battery... Thanks for clarification anyone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats a mixed bag man, there are mixed thoughts on this, personally i follow the mfg. initial instrucitons of 8-12 hours initial charge, regardless if it says the battery is full, then i will do 3-4 complete charges and discharges.
at that point you are good to go to charge anytime you like. alot of places will tell you to not let it go below 20% and thats ok, but be sure to charge it all the way.
The more times you take it off the charger before its full, the greater chance you have of hurting the battery.
all i know is that when i charge it with the wall charger the battery drains very fast. where as with a usb port on a computer... it seems to last alot longer.
what does the evo manual say about how to charge the battery? i personally have never looked.

v_lestat said:
this isnt about roms and apps that claim to help battery life. and just to say it, i have yet to have a rom help my battery life.
in fact... my experience is that i get the best battery life on the stock odex roms. not sure why, but i have seen it many times.
i am talking the proper way to charge your phone, and using the wall charger should only be done when you need to give the phone a very quick charge.
i charged mine the other night when it was down to 2% and it took less than an hour and a half to charge the battery, where as using the usb method, would have taken easily twice as long, and provided twice the use.
I will also say that i have owned alot of phones, and this is THE worst battery life i have ever gotten from a phone... period.
HTC isnt known for using long lasting batteries, nor creating phones that are easy on a battery. HTC makes phones with batteries that blow their wad like a teenager getting his first BJ.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, the point I was trying to make is that roms and apps are a big part of saving battery. If you want to have a longer lasting battery you should turn off radios when not using them and undervolt as well. Baked snack is an undervolted rom with a good kernel that helps save battery and ultimate juice/juice defender turn off radios for you and have various settings for helping you get a long battery life.
I get 50 hours easily with moderate usage and right now my phone has been on the same battery percentage for 8 hours while playing music for around 1 hour, receiving a couple of texts, 10 min of phone calls, checking internet for 10 min, and having around 1-2 signal bars.
It also helps a lot when you don't use the wall charger, it just plain sucks. When I used it my charge dropped anywhere from 100% to 87-92% in 10 minutes. But with a wall charger from ebay where you put the battery in it, it stays at 100% for a couple of hours so you get an extra 10% and it lasts a lot longer as well.

v_lestat said:
thats a mixed bag man, there are mixed thoughts on this, personally i follow the mfg. initial instrucitons of 8-12 hours initial charge, regardless if it says the battery is full, then i will do 3-4 complete charges and discharges.
at that point you are good to go to charge anytime you like. alot of places will tell you to not let it go below 20% and thats ok, but be sure to charge it all the way.
The more times you take it off the charger before its full, the greater chance you have of hurting the battery.
all i know is that when i charge it with the wall charger the battery drains very fast. where as with a usb port on a computer... it seems to last alot longer.
what does the evo manual say about how to charge the battery? i personally have never looked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't mean the wall charger like.. the one HTC gives, I'm talking about the wall charger where you actually put the battery into it.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

MSmith1 said:
You do know that the Evo can not properly charge an extended battery right? The built in power driver only charges the stock battery correctly. You can check out either of the extended battery threads in the accessories forum for more info. Though charging via usb may give you a better charge, you are still getting cheated out of battery if you charge the battery in the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i will have to research this but the batteries are the same, only one has more cells.
the only thing the phone does is read the voltage of the battery.
and they are the same whether it is a 1 cell or 3 cell battery.
one just hold more charge.
but i could definitely see where the phone might jack with the charge.

I'm curious if one could split the difference between quick charging and complete charging by charging via the wall charger up to say 80 or 90% then switching to USB for the rest of the charge?

[WIP][Battery testing]If you are using a SBC kernel, stop. EE knowledge here.

Current status, 14 January 2011:
At the moment, I stand by my original claim that you shouldn't use SBC until we all know more, but I can't state that the kernel is unilaterally safe or unsafe at this point. There are legitimate claims in this thread that holding the battery at 4.2V can cause an eventual short in the battery, which could lead to a catastrophic failure. MS and I are in touch. Once I have more skilled EE's to help me, we are going to review everything and make some recommendations. This might involve upfront testing or it might not, as dictated by what we find in our first reviews. I will try to keep this up to date, but be aware it might not move as quickly as you like.
Original Post:
Let me preface this by saying I am a degreed electrical engineer and I specialized in integrated circuit design. I am slightly out of practice, but the fundamentals don't change much. I am not an expert on batteries, but I understand the basics of their operation. I will absolutely yield to the engineering experience of people that have devoted significant portions of their careers to the field of battery design and applications. However, I don't think we have many of those people running around here.
This is a long post, as the topic material requires. If you don't read it all, you won't understand what is going on.
I started out this adventure reading this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=876590
Will this damage my battery?
This charging method doesnt damage the batteries at all. It shouldnt. Because our batteries dont even charge up to 4.2V without the tweak. They charge up to 4.2V the first charge, then drop all the way down to 4.08V or something and then does these weird short burst chargers to 4.1-4.125V. Thats why there's the rapid drop in the morning. Because your voltage is actually at 4.125V and that's not 100%. So with this tweak, the charger keeps charging until you're at 4.2V (or the maximum voltage your battery can get to) and then it trickle chargers while at that voltage. The charger itself never turns off. Thats not a bad thing. Because as you reach your actual voltage, the mA decreases. Which is why our phones will never be damaged. You ever want to know why its really easy to charge from 50-80% but the charge from 90-100% seems to take so long? Its because from 50% the mA going into the phone is in the 600's. Once it reaches 90%, the mA is around 150 and once it reaches 95% you're looking at 90mA. The phone when absolutely idle uses anywhere from 60-120mA, even when on the charger. So charging from 90% to 100% takes longer becaus the mA going into the phone isnt always higher than the mA you're losing. This is the same with charging past 100%. As you leave the phone on the charger with this tweak, you're mA will decrease from 50mA all the way down to 2mA overnight. But on the charger you're losing about 30-60mA already, so you'll never overcharge the battery, in best case scenarios, you'll just maintain the voltage of 4.2 or around 4.2V.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quite frankly, this explanation shows a clear lack of understanding of battery fundamentals and perhaps even the basics of electricity. So I read the thread linked in the above post and got a clearer explanation of SBC kernels.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=894880
SBC is a type of "trickle" charging. It's a full, slow, complete charge and it prevents the 10% drop that most users get when pulling the phone off the charger. This kernel performs best with an overnight charge. Some users asked questions on the safety of the SBC charging method. Ms79723 states that it slowly pushes mV into the battery and thus keeps the battery cool. SBC kernels push the battery past their normal 100% charged point, to a TRUE 100% charged battery. These kernels also charge extended batteries to their maximum and show true "on charger" voltages, which would deem these to be more accurate for checking voltages on your battery. There was and still are concerns of the SBC kernels destroying your battery, but to most people now these dont pose much concern anymore.
The issues people were bring up is that the Li-Ion batteries are charged to the point HTC set them to was for safety of the battery. Li-Ion's can be unstable at times, but Ms79723 programmed safety temperature and voltage "stops" to kill the charging is they get too high. Bad things can start to form, I said can not will, if the temperature gets above 140f and voltage gets to or past 4230mV. If the mV gets to 4230mV it can causes issues. If it gets to 4300 mV it can cause plating. People are also speculating that the SBC kernels are going to kill your battery and or shorten the life. With the price of eBay batteries now days, if the SBC kernels give you drastically ( which has been seen ) more battery life, then why not? The highest seem on the SBC kernels is 4210mV, which is under both values for issues to start.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now, let me explain what a trickle charger actually does. Basically, at the end of the charging cycle, you change over to a constant current source (CCS) supply. This means in a true trickle charger, IT WILL CHANGE THE VOLTAGE TO (theoretically) ANY VALUE TO MAINTAIN A CONSTANT CURRENT! That is bad for a Li-ion battery because they react poorly to being overcharged (see the end of this post for an explanation of battery charging and voltage). If you increase the supply voltage beyond the battery voltage, you are guaranteed to overcharge the battery. Check it out:
http://www.mpoweruk.com/chargers.htm#trickle
Trickle charge Trickle charging is designed to compensate for the self discharge of the battery. Continuous charge. Long term constant current charging for standby use. The charge rate varies according to the frequency of discharge. Not suitable for some battery chemistries, e.g. NiMH and Lithium, which are susceptible to damage from overcharging. In some applications the charger is designed to switch to trickle charging when the battery is fully charged.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about the self-discharge of our Li-ion you say? Well, Li-ions have some of the lowest internal resistances out there, so they barely discharge themselves at all.
Well, why does my battery lose about 10% everytime I unplug it using the stock charging kernels? That seems like bad engineering! It isn't. It is an engineering decision.
http://www.mpoweruk.com/lithiumS.htm#charging
Charging Lithium Batteries
Should be charged regularly.
The cell voltage is typically 4.2 Volts
Battery lasts longer with partial charges rather than full charges.
Charging to 4.1 Volts will increase the cycle life but reduces the effective cell capacity by about 10%.
Can not tolerate overcharging and hence should not be trickle charged.
Charging method: Constant Current - Constant Voltage .
Fast chargers typically operate during the constant current charging phase only when the charging current is at a maximum. They switch off at the point when the constant voltage, reducing current phase starts. At this point the battery will only be charged to about 70% of its capacity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The experience of battery engineers and device designers has shown them that they can ignore the top ~10% of battery capacity and dramatically increase the cycle life of the battery. That means you can charge and discharge the battery many more times before the actual capacity (power) of the battery drops to 80% of its original maximum. For most people, this is a great tradeoff. But it is not bad engineering. At the very least, it is a bad design decision for some people.
Now, you might be asking yourself why it charges so quickly to ~70% then takes forever to get to the ~90% level. The explanation given by MS79723 makes so much sense you say. Let's debunk it a little bit.
http://www.mpoweruk.com/chargers.htm#cccv
Constant-current Constant-voltage controlled charge system. Used for charging Lithium batteries which are vulnerable to damage if the upper voltage limit is exceeded. Special precautions are needed to ensure the battery is fully charged while at the same time avoiding overcharging. For this reason it is recommended that the charging method switches to constant voltage before the cell voltage reaches its upper limit.
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The charge voltage rises rapidly to the cell upper voltage limit and is subsequently maintained at that level. As the charge approaches completion the current decreases to a trickle charge. Cut off occurs when a predetermined minimum current point, which indicates a full charge, has been reached. Used for Lithium and SLA batteries. See also Lithium Batteries - Charging and Battery Manufacturing - Formation.
Note: When Fast Charging rates are specified, they usually refer to the constant current period. Depending on the cell chemistry this period could be between 60% and 80% of the time to full charge. These rates should not be extrapolated to estimate the time to fully charge the battery because the charging rate tails off quickly during the constant voltage period.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason the charger switches from a constant current source (CCS) to a constant voltage source (CVS) is nestled in a few engineering details. Much like the opposite of a CCS, a CVS will (theoretically) provide any current required to maintain a constant voltage supply. Now, you can approximate the battery as if it were a simple capacitor. This is not true universally, but it works for this explanation. We have already established that Li-Ion batteries respond very poorly to overcharging. Overcharging means putting too many units of charge into the battery, which can be measured by an excessive voltage on the battery. If you have had engineering physics, you know that if you place a constant voltage in series with a capacitor, it is physically not possible for the voltage on that capacitor to ever exceed the voltage of the CVS, but it may take a long time for the capacitor to reach that voltage. So we have built in safety and much more precision, but it takes longer to charge this way. (If you want to know more about this, you should study up on the mobility of electrons and holes in solid state devices.)
By now, you should be starting to see some similarities to things you observe, but the explanations clearly do not match what others have offered. So, I have to propose a couple of conclusions. If someone doesn't want to sacrifice the last 10% of capacity on each charge cycle to increase their cycle life, they could conceivably modify the kernel to allow charging at the higher ~4.2V as a CVS. Maybe that is what MS79723 is doing, but I really highly doubt it considering how people are going for hours and only using the top 10% of their battery life. That smells like serious overcharging, which is what would occur in a true trickle charge system. So I would like some clarification from the people putting out the SBC kernels. What charging methods are they ACTUALLY using? How are they controlling them? Do they have an appreciation and deep understanding of the above principles? If they don't have good answers, I would highly recommend you discontinue use of their kernels immediately.
And one more thing folks. There are no panaceas in deployed hardware. Only engineering decisions.

Very well said, and thank you! Must of us wouldn't have even thought twice about the sbc kernels cause of what they offered. More battery life! Thus in turn it's doing more harm than good.
Folks, face it. We are basically carrying around mini mini laptops. These phones come eqquiped with 1ghz processors. Nice vibrant screens, the works. They were made to chew through battery life. If the sbc kernels are doing harm, then count me out.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

quickbird144 said:
Very well said, and thank you! Must of us wouldn't have even thought twice about the sbc kernels cause of what they offered. More battery life! Thus in turn it's doing more harm than good.
Folks, face it. We are basically carrying around mini mini laptops. These phones come eqquiped with 1ghz processors. Nice vibrant screens, the works. They were made to chew through battery life. If the sbc kernels are doing harm, then count me out.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I should point out that based on what the developers have said and the performance people are reporting, it seems likely that they are overcharging the batteries. However, that is all pending us getting some hard answers from the developers.
I would like to further add that no matter the method you use, if you are able to reliably charge your battery to the exact rated voltage (not give up the 10% capacity) then you are much more likely operating it safely. It is something I would personally be comfortable with, pending the input of an actual battery applications engineer. HOWEVER, I AM NOT A PE and I DO NOT HAVE A STAMP. I AM NOT YOUR EE DESIGN CONSULTANT AND IF YOU DO THAT AND IT STILL BLOWS UP, IT IS NOT MY FAULT.
Of course, the most accurate and reliable way to charge to that level would be using the scheme used in the stock kernel, but raising the maximum voltage to the rated voltage of the battery.

Just saw a thread on a few peoples evos that did have the sbc kernel, blew up. I'm now on htc's kernel #15
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Thanks for this post, and IMO this info should be obvious to even a non-engineer. These are the reasons exactly why I have never once even been tempted to try these kernels. The reason for the charging policy set by HTC in the stock kernels is similar to the reason the bartender never fills your drink up to the rim -- it's likely to overflow and make a mess.

I should also point out that rereading my first quote of MS79723 shows a clear contradiction in his explanation. He says they are using a trickle charger, but he is describing a constant voltage scheme. MS, please clarify exactly what you guys are doing so the engineers here can provide input.

I dont deny facts are there, I dont overlook them. I will continue to use SBC kernels because I like the battery life "now" not longevity, I wont have this phone long enough for the battery to be rendered useless by charging and if I do then I wont second thought purchasing another battery.
thank you for the very informative post, im positive it answers lots of questions that many have about SBC kernels affecting battery longevity
you can tell smokers that cigarettes cause cancer but it wont stop many of them, ms has given an option to those that so desire the absolute most out of their batterys at a cost of longevity and I appreciate that.
there is still no proof of how much SBC shortens battery life or how quickly, my battery has been using SBC kernels since testing periods along with a few others and I or them have yet to experience reduced battery life. I will report if ever my battery has less than expected life and I do carry a new unopened backup for if that day comes

raiderinks said:
And one more thing folks. There are no panaceas in deployed hardware. Only engineering decisions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Remember the FPS fix created by the developers on these forums?

|Jason8| said:
Remember the FPS fix created by the developers on these forums?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Charging a battery is driven by device physics, not software. You can't abstract yourself away from the fact that a battery is a fundamental device that behaves according to the laws of physics and those laws direct us to only a few safe methods for charging. Without some legitimate answers and clarifications from the developers, there is a clear and real danger that you are overcharging your battery every single day. Furthermore, heat is not the only way to tell that a battery is overcharged. That is how you tell it is overcharged to a critical failure point.
Now, I don't doubt the merits and the tremendous skill of the developers on these forums. In fact, I have been partaking in their efforts since the PPC6700. However, this is an area that ***NEEDS*** clarification because it is putting people and property at risk if done improperly.

raiderinks said:
I should also point out that rereading my first quote of MS79723 shows a clear contradiction in his explanation. He says they are using a trickle charger, but he is describing a constant voltage scheme. MS, please clarify exactly what you guys are doing so the engineers here can provide input.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Question: if I'm using this tweaked kernel and my battery never goes above 4.2 v does that mean it is not being overcharged? Because that's what I observe. It charges to 4.2 v and stays there with 0 mA, no matter how long it is on the charger. Does this not indicate that it is working as designed?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

you would be better suited to get a response if you PM'd him directly instead of asking him a question in a thread you started. What you say may be true seeing as you have more formal instruction on the matter however what is clearly obvious where as much command you have in the other arena you posses the exact opposite in the development cycle. Also, all of his information is posted online in his github which he clearly links to in his posts would probably be an excellent starting point to gain additional perspective before continuing your research.
raiderinks said:
I should also point out that rereading my first quote of MS79723 shows a clear contradiction in his explanation. He says they are using a trickle charger, but he is describing a constant voltage scheme. MS, please clarify exactly what you guys are doing so the engineers here can provide input.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

matt2053 said:
Question: if I'm using this tweaked kernel and my battery never goes above 4.2 v does that mean it is not being overcharged? Because that's what I observe. It charges to 4.2 v and stays there with 0 mA, no matter how long it is on the charger. Does this not indicate that it is working as designed?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That depends entirely on the reliability of the voltage measurements. If we assume that they are flawless measurements, then it would suggest that your battery is not being overcharged. However, I have no idea what kind of error exists in the onboard measurement devices, if they register false values outside of an operable range, etc.

xlGmanlx said:
you would be better suited to get a response if you PM'd him directly instead of asking him a question in a thread you started. What you say may be true seeing as you have more formal instruction on the matter however what is clearly obvious where as much command you have in the other arena you posses the exact opposite in the development cycle. Also, all of his information is posted online in his github which he clearly links to in his posts would probably be an excellent starting point to gain additional perspective before continuing your research.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't know he had linked his github page. Looking him up now.

Ok.... that was all very hi techy and you sound as if you are very educated and know what youre talking about. Means very little to me as a user. What do I look for as a user? My batt life is noticeably better on the sbc kernel. Its not over heating in the least, in fact Id go as far as to say its cooler now on the charger than when I was using the stock HTC kernel, and I have my phone on the charger a lot. Id consider myself a power user for sure. Ive been using different apps to monitor mA's and I can say that when my batt reaches full charge the mA's the batt is absorbing (0-2) are far less than what the phone is using even when just sleeping. So how could the batt be getting over charged? How would I know? I know it cant be sustaining a full charge the entire time its on the charger as long as the phone is on, simple mathematics tell me this, right? This is what Ive gotten from all that Ive read on this, please correct me where ever Im wrong and please keep in mind Im no engineer. In order for the batt to sustain damage it needs to take in more mA's than its puttng out for a period of time. Thats how it becomes "overcharged", right? So if I turn my phone with the sbc kernel off, place it on the charger and walk away from it for a day or so... that would result in over charging. Correct or no? Now if I take my phone with the sbc kernel and plug it in to the charger while on and walk away from it for a day its using more mA's than its pulling in... no over charge. No damage to my batt. Yes or no?

raiderinks said:
I should also point out that rereading my first quote of MS79723 shows a clear contradiction in his explanation. He says they are using a trickle charger, but he is describing a constant voltage scheme. MS, please clarify exactly what you guys are doing so the engineers here can provide input.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My work is on my github and yeah there probably was a contradiction. I pretty much write everything in "one take" so I dont ever go back and re read, I write everything that I'm thinking.

I believe some of the problem is that there were several different SBC Kernals.
When my battery gets to 4200mA, it bounces between 4195-4200 but NEVER exceeds 4200.
This could be looked at the same as overclocking, plays nice with some phones, kills others.

raiderinks said:
I didn't know he had linked his github page. Looking him up now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
did you even read the whole OP for SBC? its been there since he started

Biggest Fro said:
I believe some of the problem is that there were several different SBC Kernals.
When my battery gets to 4200mA, it bounces between 4195-4200 but NEVER exceeds 4200.
This could be looked at the same as overclocking, plays nice with some phones, kills others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just went through my log for the last 8 days and same as you my highest charge is 4204 (hit this only 2 times).
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18315605/battery_history.txt

GadgetMonger said:
Ok.... that was all very hi techy and you sound as if you are very educated and know what youre talking about. Means very little to me as a user. What do I look for as a user? My batt life is noticeably better on the sbc kernel. Its not over heating in the least, in fact Id go as far as to say its cooler now on the charger than when I was using the stock HTC kernel, and I have my phone on the charger a lot. Id consider myself a power user for sure. Ive been using different apps to monitor mA's and I can say that when my batt reaches full charge the mA's the batt is absorbing (0-2) are far less than what the phone is using even when just sleeping. So how could the batt be getting over charged? How would I know? I know it cant be sustaining a full charge the entire time its on the charger as long as the phone is on, simple mathematics tell me this, right? This is what Ive gotten from all that Ive read on this, please correct me where ever Im wrong and please keep in mind Im no engineer. In order for the batt to sustain damage it needs to take in more mA's than its puttng out for a period of time. Thats how it becomes "overcharged", right? So if I turn my phone with the sbc kernel off, place it on the charger and walk away from it for a day or so... that would result in over charging. Correct or no? Now if I take my phone with the sbc kernel and plug it in to the charger while on and walk away from it for a day its using more mA's than its pulling in... no over charge. No damage to my batt. Yes or no?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly my feeling on the matter. the only short term way to damage the battery/phone is temperature. there are a lot of people who dont care about the long term affects on the battery seeing as they are fairly cheap. (most people should replace their batteries after a year anyway).
ms79723 said:
My work is on my github and yeah there probably was a contradiction. I pretty much write everything in "one take" so I dont ever go back and re read, I write everything that I'm thinking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you very much for the work you do, i kept up with your post when you first started the project. you were VERY enthusiastic about figuring this out and bringing it to the public. personally i think we need more devs as spirited as you.
Biggest Fro said:
I believe some of the problem is that there were several different SBC Kernals.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i believe most people and discussion is related to v7. (at least i hope)
with all this said. since immediate damage is due to temperature of the battery. wouldnt it be easy to add another failsafe in the kernel that would shut off charging if the temperature exceeded a certain amount. i'm no dev, but i wouldn't think that would be very hard. then we could let the end user decide on the risk of prolonged battery degradation.

[Q] Is it bad to keep phone on Charger or Dock?

One thing I really like about this phone is the battery life. I know this phone has a new battery technology. At work I leave it on an Android speaker dock, and at home at night when I sleep I put on charger even if battery is at 90%. I haven't been able to find a definitive answer if leaving on charger is bad for battery. Last thing I wanna do is ruin the great battery life. Should I let the battery fully discharge every now and then? Or is what I'm doing OK.

BlazinDANDAMAN said:
One thing I really like about this phone is the battery life. I know this phone has a new battery technology. At work I leave it on an Android speaker dock, and at home at night when I sleep I put on charger even if battery is at 90%. I haven't been able to find a definitive answer if leaving on charger is bad for battery. Last thing I wanna do is ruin the great battery life. Should I let the battery fully discharge every now and then? Or is what I'm doing OK.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
try to maintain lower charge for example a battery that is frequently at 50% or lower will last longer than a battery that is always at 80, 90 or 100%

Thanks...I'll do that from now on..I'm rarely under 50%...will make sure to do that from now on...Thank You.

My understanding is that lithium polymer batteries tend to last longer if constantly topped off, and get damaged if constantly drained and let dry. A few charge/discharge cycles from time to time help calibrate the battery.
"Continuous partial discharges create a condition called digital memory, decreasing the accuracy of the device's power gauge" Source: http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/five-apps/five-tips-for-extending-lithium-ion-battery-life/
And another way to justify topping it off constantly is the fact that we don't have removable batteries so if you are constantly on the move and out of reach of an AC outlet (or portable power pack), then you are screwed.
I usually let it on AC as much as possible (some times even during the night). Batteries don't over-charge or overheat thanks to voltage controllers in them. My old laptop still retains a charge for hours thanks to this where my friends only last for like 15 minutes. My almost 2 yr old Galaxy Note still lasts for almost a day too.
Another link:
http://gizmodo.com/how-to-take-care-of-your-smartphone-battery-the-right-w-513217256

Charging your battery is a catch 22. If you discharge and charge a full 100% every time you charge, you'll end up shortening your battery's overall life, but you'll get outstanding daily use, at least for a while. On the other hand, if you don't allow enough of a difference between charges, say always charging from 80-100% instead of 40-100%, you'll lower it's daily effectiveness and see shorter daily use, but the battery will last for more cycle counts.
I conditioned the battery on my Droid RAZR to get the maximum daily use out of it. Because of that, The battery started to show it's age at about month 12. By month 18 it was performing at 20-25% effectiveness.
Having a non-removable battery makes deciding how to treat it very difficult.

crashN2u said:
Charging your battery is a catch 22. If you discharge and charge a full 100% every time you charge, you'll end up shortening your battery's overall life, but you'll get outstanding daily use, at least for a while. On the other hand, if you don't allow enough of a difference between charges, say always charging from 80-100% instead of 40-100%, you'll lower it's daily effectiveness and see shorter daily use, but the battery will last for more cycle counts.
I conditioned the battery on my Droid RAZR to get the maximum daily use out of it. Because of that, The battery started to show it's age at about month 12. By month 18 it was performing at 20-25% effectiveness.
Having a non-removable battery makes deciding how to treat it very difficult.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have proven my point here, you mentioned that by following your charging procedure, after just a year your battery performed at 20-25% whereas with my procedure my two year old Note still performs quite acceptably (almost a full day use). Same goes with my 5 year old Laptop.
Of curse there are other factors like average temperature you work on, usage habits, etc. but I'm just providing my 2 cents here.
Cheers!

Rayan said:
You have proven my point here, you mentioned that by following your charging procedure, after just a year your battery performed at 20-25% whereas with my procedure my two year old Note still performs quite acceptably (almost a full day use). Same goes with my 5 year old Laptop.
Of curse there are other factors like average temperature you work on, usage habits, etc. but I'm just providing my 2 cents here.
Cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definitely. Having a non-removable battery with abysmal daily life, I was forced to make a decision. I crippled my use of the device in order to massage 16-20 hours a day out of it instead of the normal 4-6. At the time, I figured I would jump to a new device before I had to worry about it. I was wrong. I couldn't find anything I liked until this phone. Now, I can focus on a balance between daily max and lifetime max. But, it should take me a week or two to see how it performs for me to choose how I treat it.
:beer:

Exactly!
It's simply amazing how well the battery performs on the G2. I think that GRAM is doing wonders after all (I thought it was just a marketing scheme).
Cheers!

Damasterjj said:
try to maintain lower charge for example a battery that is frequently at 50% or lower will last longer than a battery that is always at 80, 90 or 100%
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dear god, don't listen to this advice. Rayan knows more what he's talking about.
Here is a really good article on caring for your battery.
A partial discharge reduces stress and prolongs battery life. Elevated temperature and high currents also affect cycle life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Basically, the fuller you keep your battery, the better... the exact opposite of Damasterjj's suggestion lol
However, if you're storing an unused extra battery (not a concern with the G2), you want to keep it between 50% and 70% charge if you're not going to use it for awhile.

Sorry for double posting, but forgot to mention that just last night right after hitting the sack, I noticed my G2 was fully charged, so I decided to unplug it during the night just to see how much it will drain, and to my surprise, in just about 7 hours it drained only 1%! :good:
So I just concluded that thanks to the fact that the G2 charges quite quickly and it goes to deep sleep very effectively (at least mine) even though its not harmful to leave it charging, its really not necessary to do so once it's full. :good:
Fortunately I grabbed a screenshot:
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"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Cheers!

Thanks WhiteZero, I totally forgot about where I learned about Lithium batteries. That's a great article.
There's just way too much dis-information on the subject.
Even my carrier's tech support staff recommends not to charge the batteries until completely discharged! They think Lithium batteries have memory effect just like NiCd batteries!
Cheers!

Rayan said:
Thanks WhiteZero, I totally forgot about where I learned about Lithium batteries. That's a great article.
There's just way too much dis-information on the subject.
Even my carrier's tech support staff recommends not to charge the batteries until completely discharged! They think Lithium batteries have memory effect just like NiCd batteries!
Cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, some old habbits die hard, I guess.
Also, to maybe answer the OPs original question: I believe modern phones have charge circuits that bypass the battery once it's 100% full and still on the charger. So you don't ever have to worry about overcharge or whatever. So yes, you can leave your phone on a charger/dock for longer periods of time without issue.

Rayan said:
Sorry for double posting, but forgot to mention that just last night right after hitting the sack, I noticed my G2 was fully charged, so I decided to unplug it during the night just to see how much it will drain, and to my surprise, in just about 7 hours it drained only 1%! :good:
So I just concluded that thanks to the fact that the G2 charges quite quickly and it goes to deep sleep very effectively (at least mine) even though its not harmful to leave it charging, its really not necessary to do so once it's full. :good:
Fortunately I grabbed a screenshot:
Cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's missing a ! after the 7 hours. lol
WhiteZero said:
Yeah, some old habbits die hard, I guess.
Also, to maybe answer the OPs original question: I believe modern phones have charge circuits that bypass the battery once it's 100% full and still on the charger. So you don't ever have to worry about overcharge or whatever. So yes, you can leave your phone on a charger/dock for longer periods of time without issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, what tends to happen is when the battery gets to full, they will cut off the charge and once the battery drops down to a certain percentage will reengage. None of this is seen of course because of how the manufacturers handle the battery charge indicator. There is an almost 0% chance of overcharging because the manufacturers don't allow the battery to ever charge to a full 100%. The display, might show 100%, but the battery will only be charged to about 80%. This is usually done to extend the battery's life, to get more cycles out of it. This is based on some studies stating that charging a lithium battery to 100% full all of the time results in a shorter overall lifetime. The manufacturers don't want people complaining that they got on a 2 year contract and the battery only lasted a year.
Off topic: Speaking of the memory effect. Recent studies have shown that the batteries being used in electrical vehicles are starting to develop the memory effect. That really sucks. That means you're gonna have to run it to near empty before charging it fully. Adds another inconvenience to owning an electric car. Not trying to hijack the thread, just thought it was interesting since we thought those days were behind us when it came to batteries.

Another example that it's safe to leave devices connected to AC are shops where they have them on display. Notice they are always connected to AC (and security system).
On the electric car battery issue, is that happening on newer Lithium powered cars?
Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

Rayan said:
Another example that it's safe to leave devices connected to AC are shops where they have them on display. Notice they are always connected to AC (and security system).
On the electric car battery issue, is that happening on newer Lithium powered cars?
Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ummm...I'll look that up. I just read it like a couple of days ago, but I was half asleep and sick. lol. I'll try to provide the link, but like I said, don't want to hijack the thread.

WhiteZero said:
Dear god, don't listen to this advice. Rayan knows more what he's talking about.
Here is a really good article on caring for your battery.
Basically, the fuller you keep your battery, the better... the exact opposite of Damasterjj's suggestion lol
However, if you're storing an unused extra battery (not a concern with the G2), you want to keep it between 50% and 70% charge if you're not going to use it for awhile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
read your own article, its the same article I'm using
"A partial discharge reduces stress and prolongs battery life."
Also it says if you keep your phone at 100% you will only get 300 to 500 cycles.before you phone reduce capacity. if you keep your phone at 50% charge you will get 1200 to 1500 charge cycles.

So far I average 33hrs a charge on my phone. I frigging love this thing

Damasterjj said:
read your own article, its the same article I'm using
"A partial discharge reduces stress and prolongs battery life."
Also it says if you keep your phone at 100% you will only get 300 to 500 cycles.before you phone reduce capacity. if you keep your phone at 50% charge you will get 1200 to 1500 charge cycles.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you read that chart backwards? It says "Depth of Discharge". 100% discharge would be 0% battery. 10% discharge would be 90% battery, giving you 3,750 – 4,700 cycles.
The 1,200 – 1,500 cycles is if you discharge to 50% and then charge back to 100%. As a "charge cycle" is from whatever your low point is to 100%. So only letting your phone go to 50% is a good idea. But keeping it at 50% just seems silly.
Looking through that article's comments, theres alot of confusion about what capacity to keep your battery at. There seems to be data to say that letting the phone go to 50% then charging gives you less cycles but more overall usability.

No its not, I've done it with all my phones and never had a problem with any of them.
Sent from my LG-D802 using xda app-developers app

so after reading all the post i am more confused now then i when i started. thanks guys. grrrrr.

Very slow charging when the screen is on

Has anybody noticed that if you have the screen on, the battery charges extremely slowly.
I've noticed that w the screen on using gsam, the battery is only being charged at 500mah whereas if the screen is off, it is being charged at 2200mah.
I get it that the phone will charge slower w the screen on, but it shouldn't be this bad.
Here's a screenshot, you can see that I started charging a little before 4pm and after 50 min it only charged aroudn 10%.
Once I turn the screen off it will start charging very fast. But it shouldn't be charging this slowly w the screen on.
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"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
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"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
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Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

Last night (the first time I charged it) my battery did not charge at all when the screen was on. It was a straight flat line. I was using the stock charger, and the lock.screen showed it was in rapid charge. It was perplexing.
I did not experience this today when I charged it.

So today when u had the screen on, the battery was being charged quickly?
Can u install gsam battery monitor and check your mah?
I want to know whether my phone or charger is defective or is it normal.

I've noticed the same thing. Battery was down to 15% when I got off work yesterday. I left the screen on, plugged it into my car (which should be a rapid charge), and streamed some youtube videos via Bluetooth.
Got home 45 mins later and the phone had charged to 18%

Thanks I can't believe none of the reviews mentioned this.
This is a deal breaker for me. I use my phone all the time plugged in. If it's barely charging then that's not acceptable.
So I let my phone charge for 30min w the screen off and it charged 55%, which is great but I need it to charge faster w the screen on.

This was the exact reason I returned my g4 back when it was new. Hardly anyone else seemed to have an issue with this, but I use it in my car all the time so it was a huge deal to me. Maybe it's the 808? I wonder if the 6p has the same problem since it's a different soc

I hope the 6p doesn't have this issue because if it does I'm switching to the iPhone.
It's inexcusable that Google would let something like this get past qa.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

I've just installed GSam and tested and it shows charging at 1700 - 2200ma whilst the screen is on.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

Must be a heat thing then if the above people were using in vat streaming music and GPS too

Thanks. I'm hoping i just have a defective charger or phone battery.
Maybe the battery is reporting incorrect temp.
This happens if I'm just doing regular browsing. The back of the phone doesn't feel hot at all.
This is my battery temp while charging

nyjumpman said:
I've noticed the same thing. Battery was down to 15% when I got off work yesterday. I left the screen on, plugged it into my car (which should be a rapid charge), and streamed some youtube videos via Bluetooth.
Got home 45 mins later and the phone had charged to 18%
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ha-ha hope you weren't the driver.
Seriously though, I normally drive home at night and stream and charge as well. Will have to try this out Monday night.

ghettopops said:
Ha-ha hope you weren't the driver.
Seriously though, I normally drive home at night and stream and charge as well. Will have to try this out Monday night.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
whenever I game, I typically plug in, so if my battery is not charging very much thats a big deal.
I'm hoping I have a defective battery or charger, but I would like to get input from others to see if they are experiencing the same issue.
Again, never had this problem with any other nexus device. Only the 5x. Have a 6p on order, will test that out when I get it.

dwang said:
whenever I game, I typically plug in, so if my battery is not charging very much thats a big deal.
I'm hoping I have a defective battery or charger, but I would like to get input from others to see if they are experiencing the same issue.
Again, never had this problem with any other nexus device. Only the 5x. Have a 6p on order, will test that out when I get it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you're gaming then the phone is thermal throttling, if you're throttling then the phone will slow down charge speeds to protect the battery. That sounds like normal operation to me.
No one likes to hear this but you honestly shouldn't be gaming while charging the battery as high heat while charging degrades it. Situations like gaming or GPS navigation in a hot car can be some of the hottest scenarios for a phone.
Lastly, the faster a phone charges the more heat it produces. I've instantly noticed how plugging in a 5x it heats up much quicker and faster than the N5 because it is charging up to 3000mA per second. LG and Google both know that faster charging is already degrading the battery faster (a trade of between speed and longevity) and have more than likely put in safety precautions to protect it from heat exposure during that time.
You can hear it directly from Google as well:
Battery lifespan, charging & usage tips
2. Keep it cool
Avoid situations where your device can overheat. Your battery will drain much faster when it's hot, even if you're not using it, and this can even damage your battery. Bear in mind that your device warms up when it's plugged in, so try not to keep it charging all the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I haven't had any problems like this

I don't mind if it charges slower like maybe 1000mah, but it's charging at less than 500mah even if I'm just browsing or just idling w the screen on.
I think I must have defective battery or charger.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

I'm wondering if there's a conditioning period. First charge, flat line with screen on. Second charge, projected time to fill was a touch over 3 hours. Third time, under 90 minutes... Coming from the 1-2% range each time.

nyjumpman said:
I've noticed the same thing. Battery was down to 15% when I got off work yesterday. I left the screen on, plugged it into my car (which should be a rapid charge), and streamed some youtube videos via Bluetooth.
Got home 45 mins later and the phone had charged to 18%
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dwang said:
whenever I game, I typically plug in, so if my battery is not charging very much thats a big deal.
I'm hoping I have a defective battery or charger, but I would like to get input from others to see if they are experiencing the same issue.
Again, never had this problem with any other nexus device. Only the 5x. Have a 6p on order, will test that out when I get it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK briefly tried out this. I turned off wifi and plugged in Nx, started up Order and Chaos 2(which will drain my N10 pretty quick and charger just slows down the drain). I played for 2-3 mins and I charged from 91-95%. I don't think that Netflix (which I stream on way home from work) will be more intensive.
I have been driving and charging, while streaming, for years. Personally don't think I have hurt any of my phones. Although I am no expert so who knows.

You drive and stream Netflix???

mecasull said:
You drive and stream Netflix???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesn't everyone?

ghettopops said:
Doesn't everyone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I usually drive when I'm driving.

Database Users

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