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I'm not just ranting or trying to make a point, I'm legitimately interested in Google's strategy.
Obviously, google cant argue with the fact that htc has widgets that blow googles widgets out of the water. Google cant say theyve worked hard on their widgets and they cant honestly suggest that they are satisfied with them.
Are there any articles or official satements by google/android regarding their refusal to develop Widgets that are more attractive and elaborate? I'm google faithful and wont switch on principle but I can't imagine more than 10% of those people who've tried HTC's subsequently preferring Googles. Its a very strange angle that google has taken.....or maybe its not I'd like to know their view/opinion...does anyone know it? thanks
Incidentally, its not that Google's Widgets are horrible its just that they could be infinitely better at what I would assume to be relatively little effort... off the top of my head if the power widget was broken into single widgets and more options were included that would great and presumably pretty damn simple, and google emphasizes the customizable desktop which I'm all for yet they neglect wiidgets which could really be a draw for potential customers. thank you
Have to agree with you there. They need to add more stock/easy ways to change the look. It would go a long way in selling more phones. People simply think nicer looking things are "cooler" devices. Some of the metamorph's prove the changes aren't exactly difficult. I'm sure they could code a minimal program that had the ability to change the status bar to black, white, gray... A few nice widgets.. Small changes that the XDA community already offers the rooted phones.
If you watch Googles initial press release for the Android launch youll get your answer, they made Android for developers. Instead of going Apples route where you have to use their stuff and if they have something similar no one else can, they went the other way. They said they would provide the function necessary for a smart phone and leave the rest to the developers and provided the open source operating system and api's necassary for that to happen. And honestly id say its worked. I dont use their messenger, I use Handcent. I dont use their browser, I use Dolphin Browser. I dont use their clock I use Weather Widget donate or Beautiful Widgets. I often see reviews on apps that say, "this should have been included" blah blah but thats not what Androids all about, its about the devs. I think Android blows everyone away in that category, we may not have the amount of apps that other phones have but we do have more options for the things we use everyday and thats something I can appreciate, its only going to get better as Android grows and its definitely getting there. I'd rather have open development any day than, "Here, this is what you need."
i do agree with you, but those not wanting to void warranty are alittle more limited, i very much want to root but don't want to void warranty to find a month from now something is wrong and theres still no bootloader relock option. i think theres a lot more customization for rooted vs nonrooted and that's where people feel limited and have the "this should have been added" attitude
You have to keep in mind, Google is just providing a basic operating system. They leave it up the the developers to customize it. You can kinda compair it to what microsoft does, loosly. You can build your own computer, buy windows and customise it to your liking. Or you can buy one from Dell that comes pre-loaded with windows and various other applications. Google just really provides the base level OS.
@psylink you dont need root for most widgets. With exception to like the overclock widget and such, or if you are trying to run a widget that was part of a different rom.
JoshHart said:
If you watch Googles initial press release for the Android launch youll get your answer, they made Android for developers. Instead of going Apples route where you have to use their stuff and if they have something similar no one else can, they went the other way. They said they would provide the function necessary for a smart phone and leave the rest to the developers and provided the open source operating system and api's necassary for that to happen. And honestly id say its worked. I dont use their messenger, I use Handcent. I dont use their browser, I use Dolphin Browser. I dont use their clock I use Weather Widget donate or Beautiful Widgets. I often see reviews on apps that say, "this should have been included" blah blah but thats not what Androids all about, its about the devs. I think Android blows everyone away in that category, we may not have the amount of apps that other phones have but we do have more options for the things we use everyday and thats something I can appreciate, its only going to get better as Android grows and its definitely getting there. I'd rather have open development any day than, "Here, this is what you need."
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That's a fantastic stance to take when you're providing just an OS.
However, when you release a branded phone under your own name, you need to provide substantial content to that brand.
As it stands the only thing setting the nexus apart from other phones is hardware. In a few months when numerous phones have the same hardware whats putting the nexus ahead of the pact? They same way motorola has motoblur, htc has sense, etc., Google needs their own "style" for their own handsets.
There are a few home screen redesigns on the market that (AFAIK since I've never tried any of them) don't require rooting and significantly change the "look" of the standard phone. Most of them are heavily theme-able as well. On the Behold II forums a lot of people were touting these apps as ways to get rid of the Touchwiz interface that they didn't like (Samsung pouts).
Also, Google created this OS as a platform both for developers to fill with apps, but also for manufacturers to customize to differentiate themselves. If they didn't leave room for manufacturers to customize then the platform would be far less attractive to them and they'd have more adoption problems. If they create too strong of a core UI then they might either be in the position of competing against the manufacturers on that "differentiation" ground, or they might remove any need/desire to customize and the manufacturers would have to consider producing another "me too" phone which they may not like as much, or Google might spend a lot of time on work that will be discarded by the manufacturers during their differentiation. Most of these manufacturers are members of the "alliance" that collaborated on the platform so I'm sure these points were hashed out during that planning phase.
If they don't promote adoption then they lose the win for developers in having a widely adopted platform. Note that even though HTC heavily customizes with Sense and Motorola heavily customizes with Blur and Samsung with Touchwiz, a developer can still write an app that runs on all of those and so everyone is happy.
muncheese said:
That's a fantastic stance to take when you're providing just an OS.
However, when you release a branded phone under your own name, you need to provide substantial content to that brand.
As it stands the only thing setting the nexus apart from other phones is hardware. In a few months when numerous phones have the same hardware whats putting the nexus ahead of the pact? They same way motorola has motoblur, htc has sense, etc., Google needs their own "style" for their own handsets.
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True, they could do that, but I don't think they are putting the Nexus One out so much to enter the brand market heavily as they are to put out the canonical reference version of the phone, at least initially. In my mind, the N1 was never to compete with the manufacturers head to head, it was more to have a phone out there that was as open and pluggable as their vision has always been so that if all the manufacturers/carriers decide they are going to take the base OS, lock it down, make people buy ringtones through a carrier market and cripple the browsing so you can't download anything - customers would have an alternative open solution to turn to. In the past there have been classic examples of a given model/brand of phone available from some carriers where you could download any customization file to it that you wanted and then on other carriers it was crippled and locked you in. In those cases you had to buy the crippled versions because there was no independently available canonical "open" version. The N1 fights that tendency not by force or contract, but by simply being. It doesn't have to be the coolest, hippest incarnation, it just has to be pretty and usable and so open that everyone will start to get a distaste for anything closed.
What we are seeing so far with Android isn't so much of this "carrier locking" as it is "carriers customizing so heavily that they threaten the upgrade paths for their customers". I don't think they are doing it intentionally, they just aren't familiar with working on a platform that evolves so quickly. Without the N1 being a bare bones example of the platform they would only be competing with other manufacturers that are similarly locked in by their own lack of upgrade foresight and so the drive to release upgrades wouldn't be so compelling. But, if there are alternatives available that will be keeping up on a much more aggressive pace, like the N1, then they are more likely to fix their differentiating software so that it can move to newer OS versions in a more timely manner. Imagine in a year or two when we can all own Blur or Sense phones and get our OS updates within a month or two of a new OS release.
It's the "reference fully open Android example" and, as such, is less in need of customization as it is to simply stand as an option to keep the others honest. It's meant to be as "close to the raw OS source" as it can be.
muncheese said:
That's a fantastic stance to take when you're providing just an OS.
However, when you release a branded phone under your own name, you need to provide substantial content to that brand.
As it stands the only thing setting the nexus apart from other phones is hardware. In a few months when numerous phones have the same hardware whats putting the nexus ahead of the pact? They same way motorola has motoblur, htc has sense, etc., Google needs their own "style" for their own handsets.
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Click to collapse
When have widgets been the only way to add content to the phone? I mean there are plenty of replacement widgets already on the market if you dont like the stock ones. Me I would rather they provide more features then pretty widgets. They have provided plenty of content for the phone. Live wallpapers, google goggles, factory bootloader unlock, sim unlocked, mutible exchange account management, updated gallery, multi touch maps, ect
MonkySlap said:
When have widgets been the only way to add content to the phone? I mean there are plenty of replacement widgets already on the market if you dont like the stock ones. Me I would rather they provide more features then pretty widgets. They have provided plenty of content for the phone. Live wallpapers, google goggles, factory bootloader unlock, sim unlocked, mutible exchange account management, updated gallery, multi touch maps, ect
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Those are all implementations for the OS, something that would happen regardless of a "Google's phone", and things that get rolled out to other devices.
They have to walk a fine line because they are Google, and having exclusivity for one thing almost goes against their entire paradigm.
Maybe the "advantage" is getting stuff first? If so, that's kinda meh.
muncheese said:
Those are all implementations for the OS, something that would happen regardless of a "Google's phone", and things that get rolled out to other devices.
They have to walk a fine line because they are Google, and having exclusivity for one thing almost goes against their entire paradigm.
Maybe the "advantage" is getting stuff first? If so, that's kinda meh.
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but its still content non the less, correct? Doesnt need to be exclusive to be considered content. Me personally I really didnt buy it for stock os or content. I bought mine to tweak, mod, and play with, and it is more then fulfiling that for me . Love the desire rom running so smooth so early in the port.
muncheese said:
Those are all implementations for the OS, something that would happen regardless of a "Google's phone", and things that get rolled out to other devices.
They have to walk a fine line because they are Google, and having exclusivity for one thing almost goes against their entire paradigm.
Maybe the "advantage" is getting stuff first? If so, that's kinda meh.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or maybe their philosophy is that any and all "enhancements" should be optional add-ons available to all phones of the breed. As it stands you can only get Sense or Blur if you buy a phone from those manufacturers (or if you root and someone scavenges a semi-compatible ROM from one of them for you). I don't think they want to be in the game of "you have to get your phone from us to get XYZ" and so they provide a reasonably attractive basic package, they set it up so that others can come in and provide openly available enhancements (see the various replacement "home screens" on the market for example) and then the customer gets the benefit of both choice and of an open environment.
I think they view branding as more of an obstacle than as a sales/owner satisfaction tactic.
JoshHart said:
If you watch Googles initial press release for the Android launch youll get your answer, they made Android for developers. Instead of going Apples route where you have to use their stuff and if they have something similar no one else can, they went the other way. They said they would provide the function necessary for a smart phone and leave the rest to the developers and provided the open source operating system and api's necassary for that to happen. And honestly id say its worked. I dont use their messenger, I use Handcent. I dont use their browser, I use Dolphin Browser. I dont use their clock I use Weather Widget donate or Beautiful Widgets. I often see reviews on apps that say, "this should have been included" blah blah but thats not what Androids all about, its about the devs. I think Android blows everyone away in that category, we may not have the amount of apps that other phones have but we do have more options for the things we use everyday and thats something I can appreciate, its only going to get better as Android grows and its definitely getting there. I'd rather have open development any day than, "Here, this is what you need."
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Click to collapse
All good points. Now that I think about it I bought this phone for stock google stuff, which in hindsight may have been a mistake. With the g1 and mytouch 3g the google software was often the closest thing to stable available and I've grown to trust mainly them and reputable companies. Its kind of embarrassing to look thru the market and have to sift through countless apps that serve virtually no purpose, have terrible icons, and aren't even close to stable, but perhaps this is a product of androids relative immaturity, though I'm unfamiliar with winmo, palm, and apple. I just haven't been impressed with many third party apps or Widgets, save a select few very impressive ones. 90% of the apps look and feel very amateur. I stick to apps and Widgets produced by real companies because those have the best chance of being usuable. That was quite a gamble by google to go largely hands off and let all software be driven by development. Xda has spotlighted many excellent devs as far as rooting goes but for the average user the options are unimpressive. Maybe google will give in and start developing more usuable/stable/useful apps/widgets
I think that there are two schools of thought on this, yet we are all agreeing on the same concept.
While Google did create Android to be a stock type OS that they could distribute to multiple handset makers (in order to increase their ability to produce smartphones with only minor increases in developmental costs aside from those related to hardware - ultimately getting more people using the mobile web resulting in more ad revenue -whew! ), they also have in a sense slightly abandoned those of us who took the direct to consumers path. This is why they didn't put much into the release of the phone (look up the launch stats - or lack of accessories). While they don't have the responsibility to create widgets, programs, animations, etc. for us (the D2C crowd). I believe that they should have worked out a deal with HTC where we are allowed to unlock the bootloader and tinker/mod/play with/customize, etc as much as we want to without penalty or breaking the warranty. We don't have the funding to purchase a few hundred phones in case we brick them testing out various configs., nor do most of us have the expertise to repair the device if it gets bricked. The only other possibility is that a contract clause is created whereby we are allowed to download ROMs from Android manufacturers (or at least just HTC) and put them on our phones - doesn't that give us the MOST number of options to customize our phones? And isn't the ability to customize an Android phone the original intent of the OS?
By giving us either an allowance to unlock the bootloader or the allowance to download (and maybe play with other manufacturer customized ROMs) or preferably both I think that it would be a win-win situation.
I know that when Android began development their focus was on apple and they wanted to compete with the iPhone. Which is a commmendable goal because the iphone ineluctably changed the mobile device world for the better. This makes me think Android has a lot they want to do with the stock ui and not just fixes to further stabilize the software but to give the UI a seeker look and add functionality.
On the other hand I've read here that Google just wants to make a stable UI available for companies like MOTO and HTC to skin and for developers to customize and improve.
Id like to think that Android has big plans for my new nexus one.
So do you guys think Google looks at HTC's sense and says " its all going according to plan, companies are taking our software and vastly improving it so we do the leg work and get our software on mass amounts of phones and manufacturers can customize it to their liking and their customer preferences" or do you think they say " wow HTC has really made phenomenal improvements on our software so we need to step up our game and make 2.2 and on more competitive"
I do understand its open source implying the intention for third party customization. but if android didnt want their own ui to be the preferred ui i don't think theyd even offer phones that way, i just hope android isnt stopping short on purpose to let developers put the finishing touches, thats a great option to have but id rather not be compelled to root.
I'm not saying android stock isn't very solid. Other than sense its the best ui available. I'm just trying to clarify whether android wants stable software by them at the heart of every mobile device and customized by those manufacturers or if they want android stock to be competitive in and of its self. Personally I'm hoping for the latter.
Your thoughts?
I don't know if their focus is so much of pushing people to make their own but more of focusing on the availability. They seem to want to always have the availability of customization and freedom. I think they see Sense UI as "Hey people actually love our work and are willing to spend days/months on working to make something of our product."
Unlike with Apple, they're like "WTF? You're not allowed to do this! No you can't see the specs of our phones you have to guess!!"
Unlike with Apple, they're like "WTF? You're not allowed to do this! No you can't see the specs of our phones you have to guess!!"
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touche.....
i can't see google having any problems with sense UI, any improvement is great. Anything that will make more people use android and use google's services, im sure they will be happy with. Somehow i don't think they are happy with the deals the other companies have made with bing and yahoo though.
DMaverick50 said:
but if android didnt want their own ui to be the preferred ui i don't think theyd even offer phones that way
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You're completely missing the point about why Google wants Android.
They don't care if the stock UI isn't the best or most popular.
They don't care about Blur.
They don't care about Sense UI.
You're missing the big picture here.
Every time you search...
Every time you use maps...
Every time you use voice input, Google Goggles, Gesture Search, Listen, etc.
Every time, they're collecting that data, selling it, using it to improve their services even more and thereby making even more profit on their improvement in services..
Mobile ads within apps, and elsewhere within the UI...
Not to mention taking a cut out of sold apps.
Nothing is free, especially not data, and you can bet your ass Google is cashing in on it since that's what they do best.
Stop thinking about the UI, and start thinking behind-the-scenes. Look at the big picture.
O
Paul22000 said:
You're completely missing the point about why Google wants Android.
They don't care if the stock UI isn't the best or most popular.
They don't care about Blur.
They don't care about Sense UI.
You're missing the big picture here.
Every time you search...
Every time you use maps...
Every time you use voice input, Google Goggles, Gesture Search, Listen, etc.
Every time, they're collecting that data, selling it, using it to improve their services even more and thereby making even more profit on their improvement in services..
Mobile ads within apps, and elsewhere within the UI...
Not to mention taking a cut out of sold apps.
Nothing is free, especially not data, and you can bet your ass Google is cashing in on it since that's what they do best.
Stop thinking about the UI, and start thinking behind-the-scenes. Look at the big picture.
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Click to collapse
I definitely understand what you're saying, that they want their software on as many devices as possible. That was actually the first of the two possibilities I offered. Officially google initially indicated they wanted to compete with apple (the second possibility I offered) and as a nexus owner I hoped for the second but it makes a lot more business sense to make their software/applications ubiquitous. And at the end of the day, google has a bottom line to worry about. So I guess in the end the manufacturers using android but customizing it probably offers a more thoughtful interface (though many, many prefer stock) but having stock android is more likely to receive updates fastest while some customized skins may not receive them period. Seems like a win-win for consumers regardless of android and Google's strategy.
I never saw Android as a competition to iPhone. There are huge differences between them. To start with, iPhone is a hardware and Android is an OS.
Android is not just targetted towards phone.. but also a more lucrative platform buisness. Android is targeted towards Windows and Linux and not iPhone.
Windows CE and Linux are pretty much the only choice for platforms. Many GPS units, car control systems, Controllers for many equipment etc.. are all Windows CE or custom linux. Android is targeting this market share. Therefore it is not surprising that Android has similiar policies like Win CE and linux to keep the core seperate from UI. Customers can choose their UI to adapt their implimentation. e.g. many of us don't even relaize that our car GPS has windows in it or our routers has linux in it.
Of course there are other advantages of controling a platform. They have been nicely sumarized by paul.
I think it is rather obvious that our problems with the X10 and SE can be attributed directly to SE UI's. If SE are not able to get their UI's stable enough to run with native Android revisions couldn't SE scrap them all together? Or, at least release their products native and offer their UXP down the road when they have been able to get what ever they add to run smoothly enough with current OS and features.
3rd party add-ons are ruining the Android experience. In it's current form I do not see any advantage to Android or SE. And, I am hoping now the WINMO7 will be great; since I am confident that my next device will not be Android or SE. I understand that this is not Googles fault, but as the end user suffering through the X10's lag, bugs, closed platform, lack of control ability, and lack of timely revisions (or any revisions for that fact), where is the Android advantage?
Right now it is the companies that have partnered with Google on Android who might wind up being responsible for Android's eventual demise.
I guess the only thing we can do is hope that rumors about Gingerbread not accepting 3rd party UI's is true. If not I can not see Android being anything more then 3rd rate in the future.
Are you still trying to flame-bait?
If all a company had to offer was the same stock experience as everyone else, it wouldn't have a product to market. Why do you think every major manufacturer has their own custom UI on top of Android?
I agree that a small, niche market for stock Android exists, but it won't be enough to carry a company's sales.
It's incredibly simple marketing.
Also, I find it incredibly telling that you've chosen to ignore the six or seven firmware updates the X10 has received.
fm1776 said:
I guess the only thing we can do is hope that rumors about Gingerbread not accepting 3rd party UI's is true. If not I can not see Android being anything more then 3rd rate in the future.
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If Android is not accepting 3rd party UI, then i throw Android away.
Having many selection that differentiate you and the other, that is the beauty of it man. One of the major turn off of iPhone for me is there is only single product, none offers with keyboard, same color, the UI is also is all the same. Like there is no difference between my iPhone and everyone's iPhone.
And i think the future of UXP is very bright compared to other Android device. When you pick up Samsung Galaxy S and play it side by side with your X10, you will know immediately which one is better.
Anyway, the point is full experience customization is a really wonderful thing to have.
That's why i choose to buy X10 and still prefer to use it even though its still 1.6. In my office desk i have a lot of other Android phone i can take for personal usage. Nexus One, Motorola Milestone and also Samsung Galaxy Spica, LG GW 620.
Most of them are faster and better then X10 in term of speed and because of Froyo, but whenever i take one home, i end up using X10 instead.
So conclusion its SE DEV fault that the update is delayed, but full 3rd party customization is the best thing you can have in your smartphone.
Hell, my friend is keep on whining that his iPhone doesn't have Swype and also complains about iPhone keyboard auto-correct, while i can install any onscreen keyboard for Android.
Here is one of hundreds of articles I found related to Gingerbread. So obviously there are plenty of people who see the OEM added skins as much of a problem as I do. And, from my personal experience with the X10 this hits the nail on the head.
http://www.dailytech.com/Android+30+Gingerbread+Launches+Q4+Will+Kill+Off+OEM+UI+Skins/article18897.htm
My user experience with the X10 has been anything but enjoyable. And, since this is my first and only Android experience it has left a bad taste in my mouth. I seriously doubt that I would consider another Android device without killing off OEM add-ons that interfere with OS revisions. Let's allow the manufacturers build the hardware and leave the OS's to companies that design it. Because it is all to obvious that SE for example do not know what they are doing when it comes to UI. Which is exactly why we are still waiting after over half a year for our revision.
This whole SE premise of them "improving the overall user experience" has seriously back fired on the X10.
If what is being said about Gingerbread is true I might consider giving Android another try. Though I doubt I would give SE another go.
fm1776 said:
Here is one of hundreds of articles I found related to Gingerbread. So obviously there are plenty of people who see the OEM added skins as much of a problem as I do. And, from my personal experience with the X10 this hits the nail on the head.
http://www.dailytech.com/Android+30+Gingerbread+Launches+Q4+Will+Kill+Off+OEM+UI+Skins/article18897.htm
My user experience with the X10 has been anything but enjoyable. And, since this is my first and only Android experience it has left a bad taste in my mouth. I seriously doubt that I would consider another Android device without killing off OEM add-ons that interfere with OS revisions. Let's allow the manufacturers build the hardware and leave the OS's to companies that design it. Because it is all to obvious that SE for example do not know what they are doing when it comes to UI. Which is exactly why we are still waiting after over half a year for our revision.
This whole SE premise of them "improving the overall user experience" has seriously back fired on the X10.
If what is being said about Gingerbread is true I might consider giving Android another try. Though I doubt I would give SE another go.
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"The wealth of information was leaked by Mobile-review.com’s Eldar Murtazin in his Russian language/locale podcast "Digestiv.""
While the guy has a good track record, anything said about a non-existent OS can't be taken as fact.
Also, you seem to be the only person brutally raped by the X10 that, for some reason, keeps asking for more, soapfree. I don't understand why you post repeatedly about an OS and phone you claim to hate so much.
SE's UI is just a slap of blue over stock Android, with some widgets. Then you go and blame them when they want to make sure their update is bug-free (as it can be)? Would you rather they ship phones like the G2 that fall apart? Or that they ship 4 phones within two months that can't use GPS properly? SE's biggest problem is the in-call volume on certain phones is low and the Android version it's running is 1.6. There have been scattered reports of USB ports breaking, (probably more than G2's that are falling apart), and some issues that affect nearly all GSM/3G phones, namely APN and Network settings.
xeviro said:
If Android is not accepting 3rd party UI, then i throw Android away.
Having many selection that differentiate you and the other, that is the beauty of it man. One of the major turn off of iPhone for me is there is only single product, none offers with keyboard, same color, the UI is also is all the same. Like there is no difference between my iPhone and everyone's iPhone.
And i think the future of UXP is very bright compared to other Android device. When you pick up Samsung Galaxy S and play it side by side with your X10, you will know immediately which one is better.
Anyway, the point is full experience customization is a really wonderful thing to have.
That's why i choose to buy X10 and still prefer to use it even though its still 1.6. In my office desk i have a lot of other Android phone i can take for personal usage. Nexus One, Motorola Milestone and also Samsung Galaxy Spica, LG GW 620.
Most of them are faster and better then X10 in term of speed and because of Froyo, but whenever i take one home, i end up using X10 instead.
So conclusion its SE DEV fault that the update is delayed, but full 3rd party customization is the best thing you can have in your smartphone.
Hell, my friend is keep on whining that his iPhone doesn't have Swype and also complains about iPhone keyboard auto-correct, while i can install any onscreen keyboard for Android.
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Click to collapse
The SE added UI is what has killed the X10. So if you are asking SE to listened to you they would go out of business within a few short years. As of today the iphone4 is the best device on the market exactly for the reason that the are no 3rd party skins. I am not saying that this will be the case tomorrow. But as of today right now it is.
Timescape is a marketing ploy with little to no user interface. And, because of it you can not get support for full flash capabilities; 2.2 native is 1000 times better. On the other hand I like Media scape. But that is just because I own my own media files. Is Media scape really that much better than native? Or is it that much better than third party soft you could find on your own in Android market or, something user created here in XDA; that is if the X10 was really an open platform? A software that would not prevent your device getting the latest OS the day it is released. SE's entire objective it to offer you their skins that will lead you to their OEM created after market for media (just like apple). However, there are only a dozen movies, games, and songs to download there. At least with iphone4 you have itunes. How could you possibly want that? That is pure madness man. And, you said "Anyway, the point is full experience customization is a really wonderful thing to have." Where is the full customization in the X10? The X10 is locked down with little to no customization. It is a joke and I just laugh harder when people keeping mistakenly claim that this device is anything but a closed platform.
I like competition that comes from a free market system as much as the next guy. But SE are adding their UI's to remove that competition, not to add to it. And, X10 users are guinea pigs whilst they work out the details. It has a long way to go. And, why make their current customers suffer before they have their market in place? They are still trying to negotiate with the entertainment industry for goodness sake. It is a long , long way off mate. So, if you think you are getting some kind of magical benefit from SE skins you need to have your head examined.
There would be plenty to distinguish one device from the next without OEM added non-sense. Besides hardware (which SE also do not manufacture themselves), there is Android market. OEM's that want to stand out for the right reasons will need to start being true manufacturers and not simply some design company slapping together the same pieces of plastic everyone else is using and than adding some cheap skins that either don't even work right, or are simply a gimmick.
All these things that people use to criticize Apple for are what most users are really getting in non-apple phones. You are getting screwed by SE and lack the understand to even know that it is happening. I find that comical.
iead1 said:
"The wealth of information was leaked by Mobile-review.com’s Eldar Murtazin in his Russian language/locale podcast "Digestiv.""
While the guy has a good track record, anything said about a non-existent OS can't be taken as fact.
Also, you seem to be the only person brutally raped by the X10 that, for some reason, keeps asking for more, soapfree. I don't understand why you post repeatedly about an OS and phone you claim to hate so much.
SE's UI is just a slap of blue over stock Android, with some widgets. Then you go and blame them when they want to make sure their update is bug-free (as it can be)? Would you rather they ship phones like the G2 that fall apart? Or that they ship 4 phones within two months that can't use GPS properly? SE's biggest problem is the in-call volume on certain phones is low and the Android version it's running is 1.6. There have been scattered reports of USB ports breaking, (probably more than G2's that are falling apart), and some issues that affect nearly all GSM/3G phones, namely APN and Network settings.
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Click to collapse
Just because you make a claim here in your post that the only thing bugging on the X10 is call volume does not make it so. There are plenty of bugs in this phone. SE added UI skins being the biggest one driving away customer right now. And, a whole host of others. But this thread is not about the X10's call volume, or screen lag, or battery life, or wifi, or any other bug. It is about the UXP, SE -vs- native, so let's try to stay on point. But if you want to start a thread about X10 bugs I would be happy ot contribute
iead1 said:
SE's UI is just a slap of blue over stock Android, with some widgets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am quoting you twice because I would like to put this into perspective.
Xerviro says if if there are no OEM UI skins he would chuck the phone in the trash. You say the UI's are simply color schemes!
Why don't you both simply consider the iphone4 a different option with a different color scheme. Only one other difference. Theirs has itunes market and no 3rd party added UI skins getting in the way of updates whilst Android come out with a new OS every other week.
try to be at least remotely objective. Or, at least try to appear so.
UI = User Interface
"In computer science and human-computer interaction, the user interface (of a computer program) refers to the graphical, textual and auditory information the program presents to the user, and the control sequences (such as keystrokes with the computer keyboard, movements of the computer mouse, and selections with the touchscreen) the user employs to control the program."
The UI is the menu system, the home screen, app drawer, notification bar, ect.
You're talking more about Widgets and Apps like Timescape and Mediascape. There's a deliniating line. HTC's Sense and Samsung's Touchwiz are UIs because they take over how you interact with the phone. Timescape and Mediascape don't add anything to the basic User Interface. That is to say, if you removed them, the phone would act exactly the same. SE has failed miserably in making Timescape a UI. (Like the fact that the Timescape interface is not default when you turn on the phone).
Also, I want evidence of a new Android OS every other week. So far, in 2010, we've received minor OS updates 2.1, 2.2, and 2.2.1. Not exactly "every other week", or Operating Systems, seeing as we're currently in October. Edit: In comparison, Apple has released more firmware updates, and has it's flagship product still running on a version released over a year ago.
DailyTech said:
Another drastic change in Android 3.0 is that Google is killing off third-party user interface shells like Motorblur and HTC Sense, by offering a faster, superior alternative. The new built-in UI is reportedly similar to that seen in the Gallery app in this clip, with fluid animations and a photobook sort of feel to it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I understand it and as another article (i can't remember where) says, Gingerbread doesn't prohibit third-party UI's, it just offers a UI which in their opinion makes them unnecessary. IF a phone company decides to change the UI nonetheless, it can still do it. How would you ban third-party UI's anyway since Android is completely Open Source?!
Edit: ah, here is the article i mentioned: http://www.intomobile.com/2010/06/16/android-to-focus-on-user-experience-with-gingerbread/
Android coming out with OS updates every few weeks has certainly put front and center some issues. I appreciate they are trying to get improvements of their product to the customers as quickly as possible. That is great service. What the end users are experience as a result of their improvments is simply high lighting a problem that has been around longer than they have.
And, that is the OEM UI skins. Which tend to be a gimmick that are not improving the over all customer experience in the slightest. This problem will most likely be less obvious next year when Android slow down the number of revisions they issue. However, unless something is done to block OEM UI add-ons it will continue to be a problem. People will always be frustraited waiting for OS revision and new features whilst the OEM's get their UI's to run smoothly with the next OS. By the way none of which is open source. It is all propriatary in nature.
This entire problem is created by the companies that have partnered with Google to support Android. And, SE is the worst offender. X10 customers are unfortunetly experiencing the most extreme case of this issue.
Until either Gingerbread, a newer Maemo, or winmo7 come out the safest device to own right now is the iphone4 to avoid these issues and the problems that come with it. It either has every single feature available in every our device on the market or offers a fair alternative. Without 3rd party add-ons deminishing the over all user experience. Come summer 2011 maybe this will no longer be true. But as things stand right now Android stink, for no fault of their own.
qwer23 said:
How would you ban third-party UI's anyway since Android is completely Open Source?!
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Click to collapse
They would do it contractually. Open source is meant to be open source to the end user. And, not for the OEM to close with ridiculous UI's that offer no real end user benefits. The X10 is Android and it is NOT open source. So as things stands such much for the open source arguement.
I saw what you are saying about the android created UI's too. We can only hope. But as things are now Android will go out of business. Driven there by their own partners who were supporting their plat form.
fm1776 said:
Android coming out with OS updates every few weeks has certainly put front and center some issues. I appreciate they are trying to get improvements of their product to the customers as quickly as possible. That is great service. What the end users are experience as a result of their improvments is simply high lighting a problem that has been around longer than they have.
And, that is the OEM UI skins. Which tend to be a gimmick that are not improving the over all customer experience in the slightest. This problem will most likely be less obvious next year when Android slow down the number of revisions they issue. However, unless something is done to block OEM UI add-ons it will continue to be a problem. People will always be frustraited waiting for OS revision and new features whilst the OEM's get their UI's to run smoothly with the next OS. By the way none of which is open source. It is all propriatary in nature.
This entire problem is created by the companies that have partnered with Google to support Android. And, SE is the worst offender. X10 customers are unfortunetly experiencing the most extreme case of this issue.
Until either Gingerbread, a newer Maemo, or winmo7 come out the safest device to own right now is the iphone4 to avoid these issues and the problems that come with it. It either has every single feature available in every our device on the market or offers a fair alternative. Without 3rd party add-ons deminishing the over all user experience. Come summer 2011 maybe this will no longer be true. But as things stand right now Android stink, for no fault of their own.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're the wordiest troll ever.
2010:
Android version 2.1 - January 12
Android version 2.2 - May 20
Android version 2.2.1 - October 1
Please, please, please tell me how five month gaps qualify as "a few weeks". Not to mention 2.2.1 is just bug fixes.
What is proprietary? The OEM's UI? Well no duh! If HTC's Sense UI was Open Source, anyone could download it to their Android phone, and thus, defeat the purpose of selling phones based on uniqueness.
I really don't understand what your argument is here. Do you hate customization? Do you love customization? Do you hate open source? Windows Phone 7 and iOS4 seem to be up your alley. Leave Android to the people who like to tinker around.
fm1776 said:
They would do it contractually. Open source is meant to be open source to the end user. And, not for the OEM to close with ridiculous UI's that offer no real end user benefits. The X10 is Android and it is NOT open source. So as things stands such much for the open source arguement.
I saw what you are saying about the android created UI's too. We can only hope. But as things are now Android will go out of business. Driven there by their own partners who were supporting their plat form.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you know the meaning of any word that you post on here?
Open Source has nothing to do with the end user in this case. Please educate yourself: http://arstechnica.com/old/content/...se-the-apache-software-license-over-gplv2.ars
iead1 said:
You're the wordiest troll ever.
2010:
Android version 2.1 - January 12
Android version 2.2 - May 20
Android version 2.2.1 - October 1
Please, please, please tell me how five month gaps qualify as "a few weeks". Not to mention 2.2.1 is just bug fixes.
What is proprietary? The OEM's UI? Well no duh! If HTC's Sense UI was Open Source, anyone could download it to their Android phone, and thus, defeat the purpose of selling phones based on uniqueness.
I really don't understand what your argument is here. Do you hate customization? Do you love customization? Do you hate open source? Windows Phone 7 and iOS4 seem to be up your alley. Leave Android to the people who like to tinker around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Trolling is what you are doing on this thread.
Obviously I was exaggerating the the number of updates to high light the point; but you already know that. So no need to comment on your flaming.
When SE closed Android 1.6 they made it proprietary. Hence it is no longer open source. That means it is CLOSED and no different from winmo or ios.
Since the X10 is C.L.O.S.E.D and N.O.T open there is little to nothing customizable about it. Absolutely ZERO difference with an iphone4. Except at least with an apple you have itunes and the latest OS and features. With the X10 you have to deal with the interference from yhe OEM add-ons that accomplish nothing more than you could have already gotten from native android. And, you do not have the latest feature which the X10 does not support.
iead1 said:
Do you know the meaning of any word that you post on here?
Open Source has nothing to do with the end user in this case. Please educate yourself: http://arstechnica.com/old/content/...se-the-apache-software-license-over-gplv2.ars
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The article you are included is absolutely correct. However, open source for software developement is not what I am speaking about and is a completely moot point as this is a total seperate topic.
Though, I think this could be a good topic for you to start in your own thread. I would be happy to contribute to this topic as well.
fm1776 said:
Since the X10 is C.L.O.S.E.D and N.O.T open there is little to nothing customizable about it. Absolutely ZERO difference with an iphone4. Except at least with an apple you have itunes and the latest OS and features. With the X10 you have to deal with the interference from yhe OEM add-ons that accomplish nothing more than you could have already gotten from native android. And, you do not have the latest feature which the X10 does not support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So changing the entire home screen interface is "not customizable"? Adding any widget you can think is "not customizable"? Changing the on-screen keyboard to be anything you like is "not customizable"? Changing the lock screen is "not customizable"? Changing the default program for anything is "not customizable"? Can you do any of that with an iPhone? The only customization you get on the iPhone is wallpaper.
Hell, I have an iPod touch, and I'm artificially not allowed to update to the latest firmware. The internals in the first gen touch, first gen iPhone, iPhone 3G, and second gen iPod touch are all the same. Apple just says "Sorry, buy a new iPod".
Every commercial Android product is "closed", because the OEMs have added their own value-add to the base code to market it to consumers.
I'm trying really hard to play nice, but, when you say such silly things, it's really really difficult.
iead1 said:
Please, please, please tell me how five month gaps qualify as "a few weeks". .
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Click to collapse
Like I already stated I was simply exaggerating to express a point. This point hand absolutely nothing to do with a specific time line on Androids side.
But since you bring it up, let me explain my same point in your own terminology.
Android come out with an update every five months. But it take SE 12 month's or more to engineer their UI skins to the newer OS before it is released to the end user. And, this isn't even counting any extra time certain service providers might want to add their bit.
Well you and I just explained the exact same thing two different ways. So thank you for helping me make my point. I still think I already made it on my own, but thank you just the same.
Edit- Customization is the ability to first change the devices behavior. My X1 is by far more customizable than the X10. Heck my P910 was more "customizable" than the X10
Have to agree with iead.. Although I have no real experience of winmo, android on the x10 is massively more customizable than ios. There really is no comparison on this point they're so far apart..
Sent from my x10 using XDA and swype.
im_iceman said:
Have to agree with iead.. Although I have no real experience of winmo, android on the x10 is massively more customizable than ios. There really is no comparison on this point they're so far apart..
Sent from my x10 using XDA and swype.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, first let me say that my thread is about 3rd party UI's -vs- native android. So if we could start to return to the subject it would be appreciated.
As for your comment. I am listening to how you precieve the X10 as being more customizable than any other device. You mentioned ios, Please tell us what you find less or more customizable about either, feel free to be absolutely specific? Oh yeah and which model you had?
As for everyone else could you please get back on topic. If there is demand for the customization iead could start that topic too. I will happily come contribute.
FYI: This is a venting post, written spur of the moment. Probably rambling from point to point without proofreading or organizing thoughts. Don't even know if it will make sense to anyone.
In my haste to, you know, have the newest version of Android running on my Transformer, I totally destroyed it and cannot get it to be recognized in any USB form on my computer. There are tons of great ROMs built by the awesome development community, but I'm just sick of having to try out multiple ROMs just to find one that works without issues. IMO, the fault is split between Google and the hardware manufacturers. Google should force manufacturers to ship phones and tablets with stock Android. It is Google's system and they should have the control to do that. The manufacturers should be ashamed of themselves for not being able to release an update to the latest OS within a few weeks of the release, jellybean, and on a tablet that was only launched in the US in April 2011. Google should be ashamed for letting these manufacturers get away with running an outdated version on a device that is completely cabable of running the newest iteration. Had an official means of updating to Jellybean been available I would not have spent so much of my time rooting and testing ROMs to make sure I have a consistent user experience.
I look at Apple; the structure and consistency they have in regards to software updates. The first gen iPad received updates until iOS 5 for two years. Then you devices that are put out by Android manufacturers, new models are frequent and in the furry to try and saturate the market with tablets, they forget about the one that came out the day before. Too many screen sizes, different processors, causes developers to shy away. For example, there has yet to be a legitimate Spotify (which I use daily), twitter, Facebook tablet app. Even the official apps they do have for "tablets" are weak in the user interface compared to iPad apps.
I know the general public will probably never care that their phone/tablet doesn't receive the newest Android update, they call their phones "droids". That's because they don't know what they are missing since the manufacturers do not care about updating the firmware and they are running terrible skinned versions of the OS. I enjoy using my Galaxy Nexus on Verizon, but even that does not get updated from Google. Google needs to reassess how they distribute the OS and to who. Maybe it needs to be a little closed and vertical. It could help.
You have a very good point on it, I couldn't agree more with it.
But regarding the distribution of Android, I think that if the OS had to be the same on every phone/tablet, there wouldn't have a reason to exist so many different devices, it would be like Apple's iOS and its devices.
What makes the platform interesting is the fact that anyone can use it and alter some elements of it, a thing that you don't have in the strict control that Apple has on iOS.
Sent from my MB525 using xda app-developers app
I agree with you in certain points - as for update procedures in general.
I am still very annoyed by the update politics of the Transformer, since the officially offered upgrades caused so
many troubles for me, as random reboots and freezing ,......
On top of it, skilled people in this forum then manage to get nice kernels and ROMs done which are just
much better in performance and stability compared to stock, that you really do wonder who the heck ASUS is hiring
I found finally a stable combo for me based on ICS but failed so far for JB.
I am at the moment testing different JB EOS and kernel combos but experience still issues.
This can become indeed kind of boring....
Your view comparing the great support of Apple on the other hand I don't share completely. It is basically the same as for their Desktop/Laptops.
It is really so much easier to only support a handfulll of devices than thousands of different combinations. Sure, you have a point that
you benefit when you choose one of their devices. But bluntly I become afraid of the growing power of Apple, since I really embrace choice.
Their are always people who prefer a certain different device because it helps their needs ( look at all the different screen sizes for Android and
then check Apple), me I prefer e.g. HW keyboard for a mobile phone.
But then I prefer as well Linux and the choice to put together your preferred OS over a non-customizable MacOSX ...
BTW: I own as well Apple devices and this is not supposed to become a flame thread, please
At the end of the day its down to us as individuals what we buy.
The reviews are not always impartial but certainly a good starting point, but i find researching any product i buy before hand a must now a days.
Great example was when i had bought my gtab - if i had read about it properly i would have know Samsung are one of the worst for updates.....but then again none of the manufacturers promise any future upgrades - maybe again we are just expecting something that we were never told we were going to get??
Never had an issue with my TF but i agree you should not have to rely on a developers site to get "improved" versions of the software - but if i had an Ipad i would have no doubt jailbroken it to improve my ipad experience aswel, just like ive done in the past with ipod touches etc. Would i get another TF - yes - im looking to get the Infinity as i still feel that the Asus TF fits my needs and is still one of the best supported tablets out there.
So the moral of the story is nothings perfect, the infos out there......we just need to be a little more astute as individuals and put the time into looking at the pros and cons before we buy. We spend the money and make the choice - not Google, Asus or Apple.:good:
ultmontra08 said:
I totally destroyed it and cannot get it to be recognized in any USB form on my computer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's more or less impossible unless you managed to corrupt the first few EMMC blocks that contain the apx mode code. Which you have to know what you're doing to wipe.
Boot into apx mode, install the naked apx driver, then use Easyflasher to flash back to stock
ultmontra08 said:
In my haste to, you know, have the newest version of Android running on my Transformer, I totally destroyed it and cannot get it to be recognized in any USB form on my computer. There are tons of great ROMs built by the awesome development community, but I'm just sick of having to try out multiple ROMs just to find one that works without issues
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ultmontra08 said:
I would not have spent so much of my time rooting and testing ROMs to make sure I have a consistent user experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ultmontra08 said:
I know the general public will probably never care that their phone/tablet doesn't receive the newest Android update, they call their phones "droids". That's because they don't know what they are missing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't need to update Android unless it's a big jump like going from Honeycomb to Ice Cream Sandwich going to all that trouble to Root, Install a custom Recovery, Install a custom ROM for a minor update like Jelly Bean is silly what could you possibly need from Jelly Bean that Ice Cream Sandwich can't already do I bet the only reason is "It's the latest" and Asus are officially going to release Jelly Bean for the Transformer.
ultmontra08 said:
There are tons of great ROMs built by the awesome development community, but I'm just sick of having to try out multiple ROMs just to find one that works without issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately if you want to use something other then the stock ROM it's a process of trial and error I tried Android Revolution HD ROM for example (popular ROM) and had problems with my Transformer not responding in sleep mode and random reboots I found that Cyanogenmod was stable for my device every device is different so the trial and error process is unavoidable.
ultmontra08 said:
IMO, the fault is split between Google and the hardware manufacturers. Google should force manufacturers to ship phones and tablets with stock Android. It is Google's system and they should have the control to do that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ultmontra08 said:
I enjoy using my Galaxy Nexus on Verizon, but even that does not get updated from Google. Google needs to reassess how they distribute the OS and to who. Maybe it needs to be a little closed and vertical. It could help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google Android is licensed as an open source operating system so Google doesn't have any power to tell manufactures they can't make their own version of Android to sell with their hardware or when you receive updates that's all the manufacturer.
ultmontra08 said:
since the manufacturers do not care about updating the firmware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Asus have actually been great with Android updates for the Transformer just a bit slow.
ultmontra08 said:
The manufacturers should be ashamed of themselves for not being able to release an update to the latest OS within a few weeks of the release, jellybean, and on a tablet that was only launched in the US in April 2011.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't understand that it takes time to develop and test a new operating system on a device the process isn't as simple as you think it is you wouldn't want to suddenly get an update from Asus and then be complaining that it's unstable would you?.
ultmontra08 said:
there has yet to be a legitimate twitter, Facebook tablet app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are using a Tablet the screen is wide enough to be able to acceptably use a web browser for these tasks so you don't really need a specific App developed, it's really only necessary for Mobile due to small screens.
ultmontra08 said:
I look at Apple; the structure and consistency they have in regards to software updates. The first gen iPad received updates until iOS 5 for two years. Then you devices that are put out by Android manufacturers, new models are frequent and in the furry to try and saturate the market with tablets, they forget about the one that came out the day before. Too many screen sizes, different processors, causes developers to shy away.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you prefer Apple feel free to switch but while having a range of hardware options does have it's down falls it gives you and developers more freedom and choice where as Apple will always have a small limited choice range.
Just get a Windows Phone or Windows 8 tablet. I am too, one of those who are totally sick about Android.
You know, I bought Asus Transformer TF101 right on launch and YOU HAVE NO idea how excited I am. But things started to change after using it for a day, lags, crashes, limited apps.
I've been waiting and waiting for months before ICS came, but a lot of issues are still left unresolved. Asus firmware is very prone to crashes.
I've been flashing ROM after ROM and wasted so many days on this... No way I will ever get an Android again.
LastBattle said:
Just get a Windows Phone ....
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Click to collapse
Talk about limited apps...
Eh, the way I look at it, ill have this tablet forever and by the time its so scratched and old I can give it to my kids and I can get the latest and greatest NEXUS having learned my lesson buying non NEXUS.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda app-developers app
im on jb rom from team EOS, this is the only jb rom i use until now. using nova launcher makes it almost perfect buttery smooth (perfect without Widgets on the screen) .
it's easy to find good rom without having to try all of them. just read people's comment. go to last page and see how many complaints user's has.
Using the EOS build 74 with KAT 1.4 and nothing else yields a Transformer that works perfectly for me minus the GPS. I know that people with the dock have a different set of issues but honest, my TF with EOS and KAT runs better than any stock ROM. The difference is amazing. Web browsing is very very fast, I can play all my 720P videos via SMB streaming with BSplayer.
So after more than a year my TF works as I expected it to out of the box.
ultmontra08 said:
I totally destroyed it and cannot get it to be recognized in any USB form on my computer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried Wheelie?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1676845
Android Revolution HD and be done with it. Why the need for the latest and greatest when you can use what works? I used to be an HTC fanboy, until I got the mytouch 4g slide. I hated that phone so much. I love Sense, but just the phone was.... eh. I'm very happy with my Galaxy S3. I feel like I should have opted for the Nexus, but I'm happy with my purchase.
I still have a G1 sitting on my dresser with a charged battery just in case I feel like rockin it oldschool. I'm an OG Android user. Been using android ever since the release of the G1. I do love vanilla android, but what Samsung did with TouchWiz is just short of amazing. I used to run MIUI on my HTC Vision, I ran it for a few hours on my S3, and had to go back to TouchWiz!!
And what was posted earlier, why are you using apps on a tablet when the browser works perfectly for all those websites? Apps are more of a phone thing, screen sizes sub-5"
The update from Honeycomb to ICS was a huge one and we got it, it was not bug free but good enough to get developers working. JB is not that big update unless you need Google Now.
wow i dont know where to start. i really dont want to turn this into an ios vs android flame war. but youre completly out of your mind. first of all you have to look at it from the carriers, hardware manf, and googles point of veiw.
now hardware manuf. , and carriers have it in their best interest to not release updates for all the previous gen devices from a year or two ago, even if they are capable of running the new versions. this way the new devices look more attractive to current and potential customers.
another thing is that you cant really compare the updates from iphone-iphone3g-iphone3gs-iphone4-iphone4s-iphone5-and probably in a couple months the iphone5s that wont do anything more exciting than the last model did. same thing with the ipads. before you know it you have a drawer full of iphones that look the same and dont really do anything different.
then you have android. approx 800,000 new android devices are activated every day. EVERY EFFIN DAY. now thats insane.
how many devices that didnt originally come with ios can now run ios better than they ran their org stock os? for example there are tons of devices that came stock with windows mobile/symbian/webos etc etc and they can now run many different versions of android.
my htc HD, my htc HD2, my hp touchpad, and those are just the ones ive owned. theres tons of others that were given new life because of android and the dev community.
another thing that doesnt make sense is how you can blame google, and the hardware manufacturers and the carriers for 3rd party apps that they have no involvement in. there are millions of developers making millions of apps for millions of devices. its not googles job to make sure they run perfectly on every device. thats the deveolpers fault if facebook app works better on one device than it does on another.
you see iphone and ipad apps dont really have that problem because all the devices are exactly the same. screen size/resolution doesnt change very much at all, and new features are a bore. "oh yay the new iphone can make face time calls over a cell connection and isnt limited to wifi anymore" so what they should have been able to do that years ago.
its also not googles or the hardware manuf. fault if you knowingly go against their waranty terms and screw up your device. thats the risk you knew was there. and its part of the learning process. things like unlocking bootloaders, building custom roms, modifying hardware, cross compiling drivers and kernels, overclocking, and overall getting he most out of your device, is not for kids.
yes the typical ios fanboy just wants to get his facebook updates and be able to locate the nearest starbucks, or genius bar, just by asking siri.
but the android dev comunity and the devices they work on are doing it right. why should you be told what you can and cant do with your device? why should you pay more for a device that only does less. why should you sleep on the sidewalk for 7 days to be first in line to get the new lame updated iphone that costs double and doesnt do double.
the hp touchpad is a great example of an awesome device that was on sale for 99-150 dollars from hp. it currently runs ICS like a champ, and will be getting JB roms that rock. i also have a tf101 asus that runs JB eos like WHOA! overclocked on both cores, awesome tegra2 chip. expandable memory, AND A NORMAL HEADPHONE PORT AND USB PORT. even a nice little hdmi port. its an old device already and it still blows he doors off any current gen ipad.
then theres the newer mk802 devices and hackberry A10 boards that will do anything a high end smartphone will do for 50 bucks and hooks right up to your tv. LETS see apple tv or roku do that.
bottom line is that you dont understand how this really works, and youre getting frustrated and giving up instead of learning and becoming better and the tech.
YOU EITHER MASTER TECHNOLOGY OR TECHNOLOGY WILL MASTER YOU!! thats all for now.
---------- Post added at 10:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 PM ----------
redrol said:
Using the EOS build 74 with KAT 1.4 and nothing else yields a Transformer that works perfectly for me minus the GPS. I know that people with the dock have a different set of issues but honest, my TF with EOS and KAT runs better than any stock ROM. The difference is amazing. Web browsing is very very fast, I can play all my 720P videos via SMB streaming with BSplayer.
So after more than a year my TF works as I expected it to out of the box.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah i just updated with eos jb rom today and its so much faster than the stock asus ics rom. i was really surprise, because its still got a ways to go.
---------- Post added at 11:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:38 PM ----------
Then you devices that are put out by Android manufacturers, new models are frequent and in the furry to try and saturate the market with tablets, they forget about the one that came out the day before. Too many screen sizes, different processors, causes developers to shy away.
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just to clarify a couple of things. There's no such thing as Android Manufacturers. well i guess with the exception of googles devices that they release is as close as you could come to calling them and android manufacturer, but the rest are not Android manufacturers. and when you think about it the screen sizes are usually pretty consistent even across different hardware manuf. you had 2.8"/3.5"/3.8"/ 4.2's were common for a while. now youre seeing mini tablet/phones in the 4.7-5+ range. but there arent that many sizes to worry about development wise. same with tablets. 7"-8"-9.7"-10.1" etc etc. same with the cpu and gpu arcitecture. you got your arms, your tegras, your mali 400's, etc etc theres an android device for everyone for anything.
i also love how my buddies iphone 5 wont display netflix properly or pandora correctly on the new screen size/dimension. maybe the iphone5s ver. 2.1 will have fixed that. in a couple years.
I know the general public will probably never care that their phone/tablet doesn't receive the newest Android update, they call their phones "droids". That's because they don't know what they are missing since the manufacturers do not care about updating the firmware and they are running terrible skinned versions of the OS. I enjoy using my Galaxy Nexus on Verizon, but even that does not get updated from Google. Google needs to reassess how they distribute the OS and to who. Maybe it needs to be a little closed and vertical. It could help.
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the general public doesnt care that their phones arent getting the newest rom/kernel versions although alot of them do. android seems to realease new versions as the hardware advances. they grow with the advancing power and abilities of devices. you wouldnt really expect a first generation tmobile g1 to run the latest jellybean version would you? its almost as if the hardware cannot really come out faster than the os to support it. everytime you hear of a new android version theres a whole new generation of way better spec'd devices that shortly follow. sorta opposite of apple, they release devices that are barely on par with devices that were released over 6 months ago or longer. if carriers dont want o update devices in order to entice customers to upgrade then i understand that. theyre in business to make a profit. i really dont see how restricting and limiting android would help in any way at all. thats the great thing about android. its just linux with a few things on top. and that is the nail in the coffin right there. unlimited customization and hackability.
haxin said:
YOU EITHER MASTER TECHNOLOGY OR TECHNOLOGY WILL MASTER YOU!! thats all for now.
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AMEN!
Hello
An interesting article I read today with regards to the skins OEM put on android devices (touchwiz) that leads to fragmentation.
Interesting quote from the article,
"I believe this Android update underscores Google’s new vision for OEMs has hardware producers only! Android 4.4 is a trojan horse of unification - it will give Google the tools it needs to completely wipe a skin from a device with a simple download from the Play Store."
If this turns out to be true it can have a major impact on the Galaxy Note products due to it being so reliant on touchwiz. Also I do not know how deeply integrated touchwiz is on Android so I guess time will tell.
http://techtainian.com/news/2013/10...l-reclaim-android-and-unify-holo-with-kennedy
Great article. Thanks for posting the link. I hate touchwizz and love simple vanilla android which you get on the nexus devices. Android needs to be simple to use and I find using touchwizz requires a another learning curve and it just irritates me. I think manufactures should use stock android and then install custom launchers and apps. Commercially google wants to retain the rains of android which will also be a business decision. I can see the advantages for Joe public who could just pick up any android device and know it works like any other device. I want the choice to pick either without having to root a device and install custom firmware.
andyzarins said:
Great article. Thanks for posting the link. I hate touchwizz and love simple vanilla android which you get on the nexus devices. Android needs to be simple to use and I find using touchwizz requires a another learning curve and it just irritates me.
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Vanilla is good but then you don't get S Pen and multi window. And nexus devices come without SD Support.
ddavtian said:
Vanilla is good but then you don't get S Pen and multi window. And nexus devices come without SD Support.
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These two things do not apply to one another whatsoever. Samsung could put S-Pen, SD, and multi-window support on their devices without the UI overhaul. The two are not in any way connected.
It makes perfect sense for them to put stock android in their tablets and make the S-Note, multi window etc available via the playstore.
Honestly, I don't know about Samsung's and Google relationship as it stands today but if Google does makes an app that allows the user to remove OEM skins than it might be the start of the downfall between the two companies.
On a side note there are rumours that the new Nexus 10 is Asus built not Samsung.
Not a rumour. Asus is building the new nexus 10. One the fence about buying the new 10.1 or waiting for the new nexus.